Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
yes, mace, the tweet is not intended to be taken 100% seriously. it's part truth, part humour. But the point remains: trans folks won't be able to identify as they are on government docs. Imagine the government telling you, you effectively no longer exist as you are. Some cis folks may think that's not a big deal, but just imagine for a second what a "small" thing like that means to them.
But I've seen a lot of uproar about it.
I think the general worry is, that its not stopping at just this. Handwringing for sure, but also, they've explicitly said what else they like to do, so the handwringing seems to have merit.
But what harm was the "x" actually doing? If its about people living their life how they want, how does that designation fall outside of that?
Makes sense to me to require it for legal purposes. How do you want to be treated if you are searched at the airport, as a male or female? What type of prison, male or female, is best suited for you if you get arrested? There are legal reasons to declare your sex.
I think it's cute that you think that's the reason why they are doing it, to make it more comfortable for you when you're searched or arrested. Hilarious.
No one (in power) is saying don't be trans, or must live your life as a Mae of female. No one is saying you can't identify as whatever you want in your private life, work, whatever. Only that on government paperwork, you must indicate your sex between male and female. And I don't know if those reasons were even considered. Probably not. Just noting there are reasons to need to know someone's identity, including their sex. Especially legal government forms. It just doesn't seem unreasonable to me. No one is asking people to show it when they buy groceries, or wear it like a Star of David on their arm. I haven't even seen anyone say it can't be changed from what is assigned at birth. Your sex is part of your identity, and governments like to be able to identify people. I can't even sign up for the local grocery store discounts without providing tons of identifying information, our government should want to be more precise than them. Sex is biological. Gender is how you identify. I know Trump said "gender," but most official documents list it as "sex."
You act like this issue isn't actually cultural and political. And that it isn't fundamental to the right wing movement. Anti-trans means "anti" everything related to it. Pronouns, kids, drag shows and passports. No offense, but you act so naive with these comments, attempting to spin every one of these policies into the best possible light rather than what Trump and his key supporters say every single day on television.
It's not about passports. It's about chipping away at the identity of someone who is different than most of us. I could care less what someone calls themselves, and I bet you don't care either. But there are LOTS of hard core people in this country who do care. It's the same people who cared that gays got married. And a generation ago, it was the same people who cared what water fountain you used.
I know it's political and it is part of a movement. I really just don't understand why it's a big issue either way. So much has changed in the last 10 years. Remember when Hilary first ran for president she was against gay marriage. That wasn't that long ago. In about 15 years we've gone from no gay marriage being the norm in both parties, to if you don't support multiple genders then you're a transphobe gay-hating bigot. You're right that I don't care what people call themselves. But it's this culture of everything is racists and anti-trans that gets tiring. And I see a lot of the pushback related to that. Yes, I know that the original joke about Caitlyn that I responded to wasn't 100% literal, but it's rooted in that fear that everything is racist, sexist and anti-trans. Look at so many of the conversations people have had here and around the country. You don't want biological males in women's sports, then you're hitler. You think biological women should have a say if a biological male joins their sorority in intimate settings, then you're anti-trans. You think there should be at least some regulations for public bathroom use, then you're a bigot. If you think Boy Scouts should be a place for boys to be boys, then you're sexist. 10 years ago people laughed at you if you suggested males would play in women's sports because it would never happen, now you're being laughed at for being concerned about it. To me I see all this hype around declaring your sex as feeding into this fear when no one cares who you sleep with or what you do. To me it's just documentation. And if you don't confirm to this new way of thinking then you're labeled as anti-everything.
I guess I felt the urge to respond when I see all the claims that Trump banned being trans, etc that people are saying on social media.
Maybe it's heresy in liberal parts to say that biological men shouldn't compete against women, but I believe in that. it's just too much of an unfair advantage. Unisex bathrooms are perfectly fine and that's how many places have figured out how to solve that issue. Is it 100% fair to a trans person that they may not be able to compete in a sport? No, it's not but when fair to someone become unfair to the rest, then that's where you have problems.
Other than that issue, it's all purely fear mongering. Trump literally said that you send your boy to school and he comes as a girl after the school operated on him. It's absurd. That's fear mongering.
I believe the same. I don't know if it's heresy in liberal parts, I think only certain segments of liberal parts.
I don't know that it's heresy but I think some on the left are hesitant to take that opinion because our tendencies are to side with the minority group; a little bit of engrained political correctness. It's also a challenge because most people don't really think it's fair to have people born male competing in women's sports but even acknowledging that seems to start the boulder rolling downhill towards other exclusions.
yes, but common sense has to reside somewhere. and people born male competing in women's sports is it.
"Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk" -EV 8/14/93
yes, mace, the tweet is not intended to be taken 100% seriously. it's part truth, part humour. But the point remains: trans folks won't be able to identify as they are on government docs. Imagine the government telling you, you effectively no longer exist as you are. Some cis folks may think that's not a big deal, but just imagine for a second what a "small" thing like that means to them.
But I've seen a lot of uproar about it.
I think the general worry is, that its not stopping at just this. Handwringing for sure, but also, they've explicitly said what else they like to do, so the handwringing seems to have merit.
But what harm was the "x" actually doing? If its about people living their life how they want, how does that designation fall outside of that?
Makes sense to me to require it for legal purposes. How do you want to be treated if you are searched at the airport, as a male or female? What type of prison, male or female, is best suited for you if you get arrested? There are legal reasons to declare your sex.
I think it's cute that you think that's the reason why they are doing it, to make it more comfortable for you when you're searched or arrested. Hilarious.
No one (in power) is saying don't be trans, or must live your life as a Mae of female. No one is saying you can't identify as whatever you want in your private life, work, whatever. Only that on government paperwork, you must indicate your sex between male and female. And I don't know if those reasons were even considered. Probably not. Just noting there are reasons to need to know someone's identity, including their sex. Especially legal government forms. It just doesn't seem unreasonable to me. No one is asking people to show it when they buy groceries, or wear it like a Star of David on their arm. I haven't even seen anyone say it can't be changed from what is assigned at birth. Your sex is part of your identity, and governments like to be able to identify people. I can't even sign up for the local grocery store discounts without providing tons of identifying information, our government should want to be more precise than them. Sex is biological. Gender is how you identify. I know Trump said "gender," but most official documents list it as "sex."
You act like this issue isn't actually cultural and political. And that it isn't fundamental to the right wing movement. Anti-trans means "anti" everything related to it. Pronouns, kids, drag shows and passports. No offense, but you act so naive with these comments, attempting to spin every one of these policies into the best possible light rather than what Trump and his key supporters say every single day on television.
It's not about passports. It's about chipping away at the identity of someone who is different than most of us. I could care less what someone calls themselves, and I bet you don't care either. But there are LOTS of hard core people in this country who do care. It's the same people who cared that gays got married. And a generation ago, it was the same people who cared what water fountain you used.
I know it's political and it is part of a movement. I really just don't understand why it's a big issue either way. So much has changed in the last 10 years. Remember when Hilary first ran for president she was against gay marriage. That wasn't that long ago. In about 15 years we've gone from no gay marriage being the norm in both parties, to if you don't support multiple genders then you're a transphobe gay-hating bigot. You're right that I don't care what people call themselves. But it's this culture of everything is racists and anti-trans that gets tiring. And I see a lot of the pushback related to that. Yes, I know that the original joke about Caitlyn that I responded to wasn't 100% literal, but it's rooted in that fear that everything is racist, sexist and anti-trans. Look at so many of the conversations people have had here and around the country. You don't want biological males in women's sports, then you're hitler. You think biological women should have a say if a biological male joins their sorority in intimate settings, then you're anti-trans. You think there should be at least some regulations for public bathroom use, then you're a bigot. If you think Boy Scouts should be a place for boys to be boys, then you're sexist. 10 years ago people laughed at you if you suggested males would play in women's sports because it would never happen, now you're being laughed at for being concerned about it. To me I see all this hype around declaring your sex as feeding into this fear when no one cares who you sleep with or what you do. To me it's just documentation. And if you don't confirm to this new way of thinking then you're labeled as anti-everything.
I guess I felt the urge to respond when I see all the claims that Trump banned being trans, etc that people are saying on social media.
A lot if the pushback you’re describing is overblown social media posts. The large majority of the country is okay with trans women not playing sports with cis women and governing sports agencies are making rules around it and no one is making a stink.
He's one of the most important voices in America. What he thinks matters.
/s ?
I don't know, but I am fairly certain OnWis97 was being sarcastic. Joe Rogans opinions are about as useless as tits on a bull. Guy is a total piece of shit, with a heart of gold.
Comments
he has been and will be very vocal about trans in sports. particularly transwomen in combat sports.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
-EV 8/14/93
Oh
1996; 9/28 New York
1997: 11/14 Oakland, 11/15 Oakland
1998: 7/5 Dallas, 7/7 Albuquerque, 7/8 Phoenix, 7/10 San Diego, 7/11 Las Vegas
2000: 10/17 Dallas
2003: 4/3 OKC
2012: 11/17 Tulsa(EV), 11/18 Tulsa(EV)
2013: 11/16 OKC
2014: 10/8 Tulsa
2022: 9/20 OKC
2023: 9/13 Ft Worth, 9/15 Ft Worth