#47 - Musk/trump/Vance

1676870727394

Comments

  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 30,234
    OnWis97 said:
    Why are we bringing up Joe Rogan?

    He's one of the most important voices in America. What he thinks matters.
    Literally the saddest thing I've read all week.  
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 42,022
    Why are we bringing up Joe Rogan?


    he has been and will be very vocal about trans in sports. particularly transwomen in combat sports.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 38,207
    OnWis97 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    yes, mace, the tweet is not intended to be taken 100% seriously. it's part truth, part humour. But the point remains: trans folks won't be able to identify as they are on government docs. Imagine the government telling you, you effectively no longer exist as you are. Some cis folks may think that's not a big deal, but just imagine for a second what a "small" thing like that means to them. 
     But I've seen a lot of uproar about it. 
    I think the general worry is, that its not stopping at just this. Handwringing for sure, but also, they've explicitly said what else they like to do, so the handwringing seems to have merit.


    But what harm was the "x" actually doing? If its about people living their life how they want, how does that designation fall outside of that?

    Makes sense to me to require it for legal purposes. How do you want to be treated if you are searched at the airport, as a male or female? What type of prison, male or female, is best suited for you if you get arrested? There are legal reasons to declare your sex.
    I think it's cute that you think that's the reason why they are doing it, to make it more comfortable for you when you're searched or arrested.  Hilarious.  
    No one (in power) is saying don't be trans, or must live your life as a Mae of female. No one is saying you can't identify as whatever you want in your private life, work, whatever. Only that on government paperwork, you must indicate your sex between male and female. 
    And I don't know if those reasons were even considered. Probably not. Just noting there are reasons to need to know someone's identity, including their sex. Especially legal government forms. It just doesn't seem unreasonable to me. No one is asking people to show it when they buy groceries, or wear it like a Star of David on their arm. I haven't even seen anyone say it can't be changed from what is assigned at birth. Your sex is part of your identity, and governments like to be able to identify people. I can't even sign up for the local grocery store discounts without providing tons of identifying information, our government should want to be more precise than them. 
    Sex is biological. Gender is how you identify. I know Trump said "gender," but most official documents list it as "sex." 
    You act like this issue isn't actually cultural and political.  And that it isn't fundamental to the right wing movement.  Anti-trans means "anti" everything related to it.  Pronouns, kids, drag shows and passports.  No offense, but you act so naive with these comments, attempting to spin every one of these policies into the best possible light rather than what Trump and his key supporters say every single day on television.  

    It's not about passports.  It's about chipping away at the identity of someone who is different than most of us.  I could care less what someone calls themselves, and I bet you don't care either. But there are LOTS of hard core people in this country who do care.  It's the same people who cared that gays got married.  And a generation ago, it was the same people who cared what water fountain you used.  
    I know it's political and it is part of a movement. I really just don't understand why it's a big issue either way.
    So much has changed in the last 10 years. Remember when Hilary first ran for president she was against gay marriage. That wasn't that long ago. In about 15 years we've gone from no gay marriage being the norm in both parties, to if you don't support multiple genders then you're a transphobe gay-hating bigot. 
    You're right that I don't care what people call themselves. But it's this culture of everything is racists and anti-trans that gets tiring. And I see a lot of the pushback related to that. Yes, I know that the original joke about Caitlyn that I responded to wasn't 100% literal, but it's rooted in that fear that everything is racist, sexist and anti-trans. 
    Look at so many of the conversations people have had here and around the country. You don't want biological males in women's sports, then you're hitler. You think biological women should have a say if a biological male joins their sorority in intimate settings, then you're anti-trans. You think there should be at least some regulations for public bathroom use, then you're a bigot. If you think Boy Scouts should be a place for boys to be boys, then you're sexist. 10 years ago people laughed at you if you suggested males would play in women's sports because it would never happen, now you're being laughed at for being concerned about it.
    To me I see all this hype around declaring your sex as feeding into this fear when no one cares who you sleep with or what you do. To me it's just documentation. And if you don't confirm to this new way of thinking then you're labeled as anti-everything. 
    I guess I felt the urge to respond when I see all the claims that Trump banned being trans, etc that people are saying on social media.
    Maybe it's heresy in liberal parts to say that biological men shouldn't compete against women, but I believe in that.  it's just too much of an unfair advantage.  Unisex bathrooms are perfectly fine and that's how many places have figured out how to solve that issue.  Is it 100% fair to a trans person that they may not be able to compete in a sport?  No, it's not but when fair to someone become unfair to the rest, then that's where you have problems.  

    Other than that issue, it's all purely fear mongering.  Trump literally said that you send your boy to school and he comes as a girl after the school operated on him.  It's absurd.  That's fear mongering.  
    I believe the same. I don't know if it's heresy in liberal parts, I think only certain segments of liberal parts. 
    I don't know that it's heresy but I think some on the left are hesitant to take that opinion because our tendencies are to side with the minority group; a little bit of engrained political correctness. It's also a challenge because most people don't really think it's fair to have people born male competing in women's sports but even acknowledging that seems to start the boulder rolling downhill towards other exclusions.


    yes, but common sense has to reside somewhere. and people born male competing in women's sports is it. 
    "Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk"
    -EV  8/14/93




  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 8,596
    OnWis97 said:
    Why are we bringing up Joe Rogan?

    He's one of the most important voices in America. What he thinks matters.
    /s ?

  • DE4173DE4173 Posts: 1,330
    Why are we bringing up Joe Rogan?

    Because there's not a "The Joe Rogan" thread.

    Oh 
    1993: 11/22 Little Rock
    1996; 9/28 New York
    1997: 11/14 Oakland, 11/15 Oakland
    1998: 7/5 Dallas, 7/7 Albuquerque, 7/8 Phoenix, 7/10 San Diego, 7/11 Las Vegas
    2000: 10/17 Dallas
    2003: 4/3 OKC
    2012: 11/17 Tulsa(EV), 11/18 Tulsa(EV)
    2013: 11/16 OKC
    2014: 10/8 Tulsa
    2022: 9/20 OKC
    2023: 9/13 Ft Worth, 9/15 Ft Worth
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,319
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    yes, mace, the tweet is not intended to be taken 100% seriously. it's part truth, part humour. But the point remains: trans folks won't be able to identify as they are on government docs. Imagine the government telling you, you effectively no longer exist as you are. Some cis folks may think that's not a big deal, but just imagine for a second what a "small" thing like that means to them. 
     But I've seen a lot of uproar about it. 
    I think the general worry is, that its not stopping at just this. Handwringing for sure, but also, they've explicitly said what else they like to do, so the handwringing seems to have merit.


    But what harm was the "x" actually doing? If its about people living their life how they want, how does that designation fall outside of that?

    Makes sense to me to require it for legal purposes. How do you want to be treated if you are searched at the airport, as a male or female? What type of prison, male or female, is best suited for you if you get arrested? There are legal reasons to declare your sex.
    I think it's cute that you think that's the reason why they are doing it, to make it more comfortable for you when you're searched or arrested.  Hilarious.  
    No one (in power) is saying don't be trans, or must live your life as a Mae of female. No one is saying you can't identify as whatever you want in your private life, work, whatever. Only that on government paperwork, you must indicate your sex between male and female. 
    And I don't know if those reasons were even considered. Probably not. Just noting there are reasons to need to know someone's identity, including their sex. Especially legal government forms. It just doesn't seem unreasonable to me. No one is asking people to show it when they buy groceries, or wear it like a Star of David on their arm. I haven't even seen anyone say it can't be changed from what is assigned at birth. Your sex is part of your identity, and governments like to be able to identify people. I can't even sign up for the local grocery store discounts without providing tons of identifying information, our government should want to be more precise than them. 
    Sex is biological. Gender is how you identify. I know Trump said "gender," but most official documents list it as "sex." 
    You act like this issue isn't actually cultural and political.  And that it isn't fundamental to the right wing movement.  Anti-trans means "anti" everything related to it.  Pronouns, kids, drag shows and passports.  No offense, but you act so naive with these comments, attempting to spin every one of these policies into the best possible light rather than what Trump and his key supporters say every single day on television.  

    It's not about passports.  It's about chipping away at the identity of someone who is different than most of us.  I could care less what someone calls themselves, and I bet you don't care either. But there are LOTS of hard core people in this country who do care.  It's the same people who cared that gays got married.  And a generation ago, it was the same people who cared what water fountain you used.  
    I know it's political and it is part of a movement. I really just don't understand why it's a big issue either way.
    So much has changed in the last 10 years. Remember when Hilary first ran for president she was against gay marriage. That wasn't that long ago. In about 15 years we've gone from no gay marriage being the norm in both parties, to if you don't support multiple genders then you're a transphobe gay-hating bigot. 
    You're right that I don't care what people call themselves. But it's this culture of everything is racists and anti-trans that gets tiring. And I see a lot of the pushback related to that. Yes, I know that the original joke about Caitlyn that I responded to wasn't 100% literal, but it's rooted in that fear that everything is racist, sexist and anti-trans. 
    Look at so many of the conversations people have had here and around the country. You don't want biological males in women's sports, then you're hitler. You think biological women should have a say if a biological male joins their sorority in intimate settings, then you're anti-trans. You think there should be at least some regulations for public bathroom use, then you're a bigot. If you think Boy Scouts should be a place for boys to be boys, then you're sexist. 10 years ago people laughed at you if you suggested males would play in women's sports because it would never happen, now you're being laughed at for being concerned about it.
    To me I see all this hype around declaring your sex as feeding into this fear when no one cares who you sleep with or what you do. To me it's just documentation. And if you don't confirm to this new way of thinking then you're labeled as anti-everything. 
    I guess I felt the urge to respond when I see all the claims that Trump banned being trans, etc that people are saying on social media.
    A lot if the pushback you’re describing is overblown social media posts. The large majority of the country is okay with trans women not playing sports with cis women and governing sports  agencies are making rules around it and no one is making a stink. 
  • battle1battle1 PHI Posts: 637
    OnWis97 said:
    Why are we bringing up Joe Rogan?

    He's one of the most important voices in America. What he thinks matters.
    /s ?

    I don't know, but I am fairly certain OnWis97 was being sarcastic.  Joe Rogans opinions are about as useless as tits on a bull.  Guy is a total piece of shit, with a heart of gold. 
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 42,022
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 42,022
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 38,207
    OnWis97 said:
    Why are we bringing up Joe Rogan?

    He's one of the most important voices in America. What he thinks matters.
    /s ?

    he's not one of the most important voices in america. influential? unfortunately, yes. important? no
    "Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk"
    -EV  8/14/93




  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 40,165
    Ah, North Carolina? Are they in the house? How about West Virginia? Can I get a shout out from Manchurian? FEMA should just pack up and leave, you’re on your own folks.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 42,022

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 42,022
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 42,022
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 42,022

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 42,022

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 10,106
    mrussel1 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    Why are we bringing up Joe Rogan?

    He's one of the most important voices in America. What he thinks matters.
    Literally the saddest thing I've read all week.  
    There was a good article in last month's Atlantic about how he is the mainstream media now, and yes, it's pathetic, but it's where we are as a country. 
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,913
    tbergs said:
    mrussel1 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    Why are we bringing up Joe Rogan?

    He's one of the most important voices in America. What he thinks matters.
    Literally the saddest thing I've read all week.  
    There was a good article in last month's Atlantic about how he is the mainstream media now, and yes, it's pathetic, but it's where we are as a country. 


    Joe Rogan is the continuation of republican tradition of electing an actor.

    Bush…Trump…Rogan

    bank on it.
  • Tim SimmonsTim Simmons Posts: 8,596
    It says more about the american public than it does about the media.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,319
    tbergs said:
    mrussel1 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    Why are we bringing up Joe Rogan?

    He's one of the most important voices in America. What he thinks matters.
    Literally the saddest thing I've read all week.  
    There was a good article in last month's Atlantic about how he is the mainstream media now, and yes, it's pathetic, but it's where we are as a country. 


    Joe Rogan is the continuation of republican tradition of electing an actor.

    Bush…Trump…Rogan

    bank on it.
    Reagan was first. 
  • Gern BlanstenGern Blansten Mar-A-Lago Posts: 21,357
    trump just took away Pompeo's security detail....even with death threats

    piece.of.shit
    Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
    The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)

    1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
    2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
    2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
    2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
    2020: Oakland, Oakland:  2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
    2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
    2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt2
  • tbergstbergs Posts: 10,106
    trump just took away Pompeo's security detail....even with death threats

    piece.of.shit
    I wonder how many minutes Trump would survive without a security detail? Besides Musk, there can't be a more loathed person in America.
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,913
    tbergs said:
    mrussel1 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    Why are we bringing up Joe Rogan?

    He's one of the most important voices in America. What he thinks matters.
    Literally the saddest thing I've read all week.  
    There was a good article in last month's Atlantic about how he is the mainstream media now, and yes, it's pathetic, but it's where we are as a country. 


    Joe Rogan is the continuation of republican tradition of electing an actor.

    Bush…Trump…Rogan

    bank on it.
    Reagan was first. 


    Thanks, lol I typed bush instead of Reagan. Moer coffee please!
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 42,022

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,368
    OnWis97 said:
    Why are we bringing up Joe Rogan?

    He's one of the most important voices in America. What he thinks matters.
    /s ?

    Not at all. What Rogan says matters. 

    Sadder yet, given the role of Co-President Musk, what Catturd and End Wokeness tweet (along with dozens of other right-wing X personalities) matters. They're defacto advisors to the man who's tweets can change most GOP legislators' votes.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
    2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,567
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    yes, mace, the tweet is not intended to be taken 100% seriously. it's part truth, part humour. But the point remains: trans folks won't be able to identify as they are on government docs. Imagine the government telling you, you effectively no longer exist as you are. Some cis folks may think that's not a big deal, but just imagine for a second what a "small" thing like that means to them. 
     But I've seen a lot of uproar about it. 
    I think the general worry is, that its not stopping at just this. Handwringing for sure, but also, they've explicitly said what else they like to do, so the handwringing seems to have merit.


    But what harm was the "x" actually doing? If its about people living their life how they want, how does that designation fall outside of that?

    Makes sense to me to require it for legal purposes. How do you want to be treated if you are searched at the airport, as a male or female? What type of prison, male or female, is best suited for you if you get arrested? There are legal reasons to declare your sex.
    I think it's cute that you think that's the reason why they are doing it, to make it more comfortable for you when you're searched or arrested.  Hilarious.  
    No one (in power) is saying don't be trans, or must live your life as a Mae of female. No one is saying you can't identify as whatever you want in your private life, work, whatever. Only that on government paperwork, you must indicate your sex between male and female. 
    And I don't know if those reasons were even considered. Probably not. Just noting there are reasons to need to know someone's identity, including their sex. Especially legal government forms. It just doesn't seem unreasonable to me. No one is asking people to show it when they buy groceries, or wear it like a Star of David on their arm. I haven't even seen anyone say it can't be changed from what is assigned at birth. Your sex is part of your identity, and governments like to be able to identify people. I can't even sign up for the local grocery store discounts without providing tons of identifying information, our government should want to be more precise than them. 
    Sex is biological. Gender is how you identify. I know Trump said "gender," but most official documents list it as "sex." 
    You act like this issue isn't actually cultural and political.  And that it isn't fundamental to the right wing movement.  Anti-trans means "anti" everything related to it.  Pronouns, kids, drag shows and passports.  No offense, but you act so naive with these comments, attempting to spin every one of these policies into the best possible light rather than what Trump and his key supporters say every single day on television.  

    It's not about passports.  It's about chipping away at the identity of someone who is different than most of us.  I could care less what someone calls themselves, and I bet you don't care either. But there are LOTS of hard core people in this country who do care.  It's the same people who cared that gays got married.  And a generation ago, it was the same people who cared what water fountain you used.  
    I know it's political and it is part of a movement. I really just don't understand why it's a big issue either way.
    So much has changed in the last 10 years. Remember when Hilary first ran for president she was against gay marriage. That wasn't that long ago. In about 15 years we've gone from no gay marriage being the norm in both parties, to if you don't support multiple genders then you're a transphobe gay-hating bigot. 
    You're right that I don't care what people call themselves. But it's this culture of everything is racists and anti-trans that gets tiring. And I see a lot of the pushback related to that. Yes, I know that the original joke about Caitlyn that I responded to wasn't 100% literal, but it's rooted in that fear that everything is racist, sexist and anti-trans. 
    Look at so many of the conversations people have had here and around the country. You don't want biological males in women's sports, then you're hitler. You think biological women should have a say if a biological male joins their sorority in intimate settings, then you're anti-trans. You think there should be at least some regulations for public bathroom use, then you're a bigot. If you think Boy Scouts should be a place for boys to be boys, then you're sexist. 10 years ago people laughed at you if you suggested males would play in women's sports because it would never happen, now you're being laughed at for being concerned about it.
    To me I see all this hype around declaring your sex as feeding into this fear when no one cares who you sleep with or what you do. To me it's just documentation. And if you don't confirm to this new way of thinking then you're labeled as anti-everything. 
    I guess I felt the urge to respond when I see all the claims that Trump banned being trans, etc that people are saying on social media.
    if you're resisting change that positively affects people's lives because of the opinions of far-(direction) anything, you are succumbing to the propaganda. I, and I believe most intelligent and reasonable people, don't believe all opinions on trans issues makes you a trans hater, etc. Some opinions can. But most are just a natural calming of the pendulum. All progressive agendas are going to push as hard as they can in the direction they want to go, and people perceive that as going too far. But they won't get ANYWHERE if they don't ask for more. You're always going to get less in society than you ask for. 
    I wouldn't consider myself resistance to change. I was against gay marriage, like the majority of the country, 15 or 20 years ago. Now I don't care.
    What I was more referring to that irritates me is the instant jumping to conclusions instead of understanding the rationale thought someone might have. 
    It was said a few times in the responses before yours than separating biological males from women's sports is reasonable and people are ok with that. but I've been called pretty nasty things as well as others here every time its come up for simply saying for competitive and safety reasons, biological males should not compete in women's sports. And I've been called a lot worse, including a Neo nazi for comments as "radical" as women's sports. Was actually called a nazi for correcting a post falsely claiming a Texas law was making it illegal to be trans. I wasn't anti-texts enough to not care the information was false, so that made me a nazi. Thats what I meant by conforming to their ideas, I think differently so many here will immediately label me as racist or sexist, and have said or implied so many times.
    To me checking a box on a government form isn't a big deal. Maybe it is to some people, and that's fine. We can have a discussion about the impact it can have. But let's not get carried away and say trans is becoming illegal because of it and put labels on people who disagree again. 
    I think many of the hot topics around this subject (inducing the bathrooms) there is actually a reasonable request being made. But instead of discussing the topic, hate slurs are used instead to rebut a comment and ignore any concerns.
    When I think back to high school I'm amazed how far we've come. Using homophobic or transphobic slurs were the norm. Same-sex couples weren't allowed at school dances, etc. Declaring your sex on a passport or when purchasing a gun seems like not a big deal. Am I wrong? How often do we fill out official government forms and who sees that information? It's not going to affect anyone's daily life to declare a sex when doing taxes, getting a passport, buying a gun, etc. The government collects your information on everything, Sex is one of many things they ask about. Certainly doesn't seem like a step towards making it illegal to be trans, which there have been serious claims about in the last 2 days.
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,913
    mickeyrat said:




    I posted very similar charts during the election and of course it was met with obfuscation from our now missing MAGA comrades.

    As we know, It was all about hate and spiking the football in our faces. Not about making anyone’s lives better, outside of the 400 wealthiest families in the US.
  • BentleyspopBentleyspop Craft Beer Brewery, Colorado Posts: 11,042
    mickeyrat said:

    Working class republicans have a long history of voting against their best interests.

    But as long as libs are owned and the rich get richer they don't care.
  • Go BeaversGo Beavers Posts: 9,319
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mace1229 said:
    mace1229 said:
    yes, mace, the tweet is not intended to be taken 100% seriously. it's part truth, part humour. But the point remains: trans folks won't be able to identify as they are on government docs. Imagine the government telling you, you effectively no longer exist as you are. Some cis folks may think that's not a big deal, but just imagine for a second what a "small" thing like that means to them. 
     But I've seen a lot of uproar about it. 
    I think the general worry is, that its not stopping at just this. Handwringing for sure, but also, they've explicitly said what else they like to do, so the handwringing seems to have merit.


    But what harm was the "x" actually doing? If its about people living their life how they want, how does that designation fall outside of that?

    Makes sense to me to require it for legal purposes. How do you want to be treated if you are searched at the airport, as a male or female? What type of prison, male or female, is best suited for you if you get arrested? There are legal reasons to declare your sex.
    I think it's cute that you think that's the reason why they are doing it, to make it more comfortable for you when you're searched or arrested.  Hilarious.  
    No one (in power) is saying don't be trans, or must live your life as a Mae of female. No one is saying you can't identify as whatever you want in your private life, work, whatever. Only that on government paperwork, you must indicate your sex between male and female. 
    And I don't know if those reasons were even considered. Probably not. Just noting there are reasons to need to know someone's identity, including their sex. Especially legal government forms. It just doesn't seem unreasonable to me. No one is asking people to show it when they buy groceries, or wear it like a Star of David on their arm. I haven't even seen anyone say it can't be changed from what is assigned at birth. Your sex is part of your identity, and governments like to be able to identify people. I can't even sign up for the local grocery store discounts without providing tons of identifying information, our government should want to be more precise than them. 
    Sex is biological. Gender is how you identify. I know Trump said "gender," but most official documents list it as "sex." 
    You act like this issue isn't actually cultural and political.  And that it isn't fundamental to the right wing movement.  Anti-trans means "anti" everything related to it.  Pronouns, kids, drag shows and passports.  No offense, but you act so naive with these comments, attempting to spin every one of these policies into the best possible light rather than what Trump and his key supporters say every single day on television.  

    It's not about passports.  It's about chipping away at the identity of someone who is different than most of us.  I could care less what someone calls themselves, and I bet you don't care either. But there are LOTS of hard core people in this country who do care.  It's the same people who cared that gays got married.  And a generation ago, it was the same people who cared what water fountain you used.  
    I know it's political and it is part of a movement. I really just don't understand why it's a big issue either way.
    So much has changed in the last 10 years. Remember when Hilary first ran for president she was against gay marriage. That wasn't that long ago. In about 15 years we've gone from no gay marriage being the norm in both parties, to if you don't support multiple genders then you're a transphobe gay-hating bigot. 
    You're right that I don't care what people call themselves. But it's this culture of everything is racists and anti-trans that gets tiring. And I see a lot of the pushback related to that. Yes, I know that the original joke about Caitlyn that I responded to wasn't 100% literal, but it's rooted in that fear that everything is racist, sexist and anti-trans. 
    Look at so many of the conversations people have had here and around the country. You don't want biological males in women's sports, then you're hitler. You think biological women should have a say if a biological male joins their sorority in intimate settings, then you're anti-trans. You think there should be at least some regulations for public bathroom use, then you're a bigot. If you think Boy Scouts should be a place for boys to be boys, then you're sexist. 10 years ago people laughed at you if you suggested males would play in women's sports because it would never happen, now you're being laughed at for being concerned about it.
    To me I see all this hype around declaring your sex as feeding into this fear when no one cares who you sleep with or what you do. To me it's just documentation. And if you don't confirm to this new way of thinking then you're labeled as anti-everything. 
    I guess I felt the urge to respond when I see all the claims that Trump banned being trans, etc that people are saying on social media.
    if you're resisting change that positively affects people's lives because of the opinions of far-(direction) anything, you are succumbing to the propaganda. I, and I believe most intelligent and reasonable people, don't believe all opinions on trans issues makes you a trans hater, etc. Some opinions can. But most are just a natural calming of the pendulum. All progressive agendas are going to push as hard as they can in the direction they want to go, and people perceive that as going too far. But they won't get ANYWHERE if they don't ask for more. You're always going to get less in society than you ask for. 
    I wouldn't consider myself resistance to change. I was against gay marriage, like the majority of the country, 15 or 20 years ago. Now I don't care.
    What I was more referring to that irritates me is the instant jumping to conclusions instead of understanding the rationale thought someone might have. 
    It was said a few times in the responses before yours than separating biological males from women's sports is reasonable and people are ok with that. but I've been called pretty nasty things as well as others here every time its come up for simply saying for competitive and safety reasons, biological males should not compete in women's sports. And I've been called a lot worse, including a Neo nazi for comments as "radical" as women's sports. Was actually called a nazi for correcting a post falsely claiming a Texas law was making it illegal to be trans. I wasn't anti-texts enough to not care the information was false, so that made me a nazi. Thats what I meant by conforming to their ideas, I think differently so many here will immediately label me as racist or sexist, and have said or implied so many times.
    To me checking a box on a government form isn't a big deal. Maybe it is to some people, and that's fine. We can have a discussion about the impact it can have. But let's not get carried away and say trans is becoming illegal because of it and put labels on people who disagree again. 
    I think many of the hot topics around this subject (inducing the bathrooms) there is actually a reasonable request being made. But instead of discussing the topic, hate slurs are used instead to rebut a comment and ignore any concerns.
    When I think back to high school I'm amazed how far we've come. Using homophobic or transphobic slurs were the norm. Same-sex couples weren't allowed at school dances, etc. Declaring your sex on a passport or when purchasing a gun seems like not a big deal. Am I wrong? How often do we fill out official government forms and who sees that information? It's not going to affect anyone's daily life to declare a sex when doing taxes, getting a passport, buying a gun, etc. The government collects your information on everything, Sex is one of many things they ask about. Certainly doesn't seem like a step towards making it illegal to be trans, which there have been serious claims about in the last 2 days.
    To me it’s an attempt to erase people who are trans. It’s the government dictating a person’s being. Not to mention intersexed people, which estimates float around 1% of births. 

    And trans people have always been around and have always used the bathroom. It didn’t become an issue until republicans found out they could get their base to foam at the mouth about it. 
This discussion has been closed.