Anyone saying Harris "too left" to win against Trump, you truly have no idea what "left" really means. Democrats are the centre-right to the right-wing Republicans..There is no left party in the US.
This is a bit of an overstatement. The party has definitely moved more left over the past 15 years. Not a hard left but more progressive than they had been before that. It may seem like a harder shift to some because the republicans have moved hard right. Governing from the center is not a sinful tactic. It forms coalition that’s the most fair to the most amount of people. It may not move fast enough, but Americas governance has always moved more progressive. Sadly it’s slow and there are occasional swings backwards.
Yeah I agree...I hoped that tRump's presidency was the "one step back" that would lead to two steps forward. I do feel better about that now but I really hope we don't take another step back.
But if we do we will survive and we will be rid of that orange piece of shit regardless.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
The fact that they have resorted to full on racism not even two weeks in tells you everything you need to know.
Maga dies in three months.
what comes after then?
been slipping and sliding this way since gingrich. could argue from the cynicism of nixon and the southern strategy. but accelerated in 2010 to tea party wins and later THEY morph into maga.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I think as soon as Trump is done (define that however you want), you’ll see splinter ideologies of MAGA. They’ll all compete for those weird issues and probably not find a real consensus. Without Trump I think you’ll see some wilderness years. That mid aughts neocon normie republican will always be there but I don’t think they’ll run the party again. It’s weirdos from here on out.
1. Be nice. We're very big on RESPECT here. Respect for each other, the band and the Ten Club Community forum environment. Please think of it as if you are as a guest in someone else's home. Please do not put your posting privileges at risk.
2. Discuss, disagree and debate politely. It's possible to disagree with people without being abusive, and it's a requirement here. This includes abusive Private Messages.
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I think as soon as Trump is done (define that however you want), you’ll see splinter ideologies of MAGA. They’ll all compete for those weird issues and probably not find a real consensus. Without Trump I think you’ll see some wilderness years. That mid aughts neocon normie republican will always be there but I don’t think they’ll run the party again. It’s weirdos from here on out.
They'll have a real chance to win back more of the voters if they abandon the MAGA fringe in 2028 and swing back towards the middle, but they seem to be too stupid to do that. They need a real conservative who isn't hung up on culture wars to drag them over.
I think as soon as Trump is done (define that however you want), you’ll see splinter ideologies of MAGA. They’ll all compete for those weird issues and probably not find a real consensus. Without Trump I think you’ll see some wilderness years. That mid aughts neocon normie republican will always be there but I don’t think they’ll run the party again. It’s weirdos from here on out.
They'll have a real chance to win back more of the voters if they abandon the MAGA fringe in 2028 and swing back towards the middle, but they seem to be too stupid to do that. They need a real conservative who isn't hung up on culture wars to drag them over.
a "real conservative" would not be involved in culture wars though.
the current gop has no strategy other than the wage culture wars to get people to the polls. they have no platform other than whatever trump wants and project 2025. that's it.
the gop is a dead party. it is a cult of trump that functions on grievance politics and culture wars. that is it. that's all they've got.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
I think as soon as Trump is done (define that however you want), you’ll see splinter ideologies of MAGA. They’ll all compete for those weird issues and probably not find a real consensus. Without Trump I think you’ll see some wilderness years. That mid aughts neocon normie republican will always be there but I don’t think they’ll run the party again. It’s weirdos from here on out.
Yeah. I've always thought Trump would basically kill the republican party...it's just taken a lot longer than we thought. Maga's problem is that it's a cult of his personality. Nobody else is him.
I think as soon as Trump is done (define that however you want), you’ll see splinter ideologies of MAGA. They’ll all compete for those weird issues and probably not find a real consensus. Without Trump I think you’ll see some wilderness years. That mid aughts neocon normie republican will always be there but I don’t think they’ll run the party again. It’s weirdos from here on out.
They'll have a real chance to win back more of the voters if they abandon the MAGA fringe in 2028 and swing back towards the middle, but they seem to be too stupid to do that. They need a real conservative who isn't hung up on culture wars to drag them over.
I agree with this but also add they need a "true" conservative who isn't obsessed with the grift and owning libs.
I think as soon as Trump is done (define that however you want), you’ll see splinter ideologies of MAGA. They’ll all compete for those weird issues and probably not find a real consensus. Without Trump I think you’ll see some wilderness years. That mid aughts neocon normie republican will always be there but I don’t think they’ll run the party again. It’s weirdos from here on out.
Yeah. I've always thought Trump would basically kill the republican party...it's just taken a lot longer than we thought. Maga's problem is that it's a cult of his personality. Nobody else is him.
nobody measures up. the fake billionaire has convinced 10s of millions of people that he is just like them. none of the other gop leaders can do that.
"You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry." - Lincoln
Anyone saying Harris "too left" to win against Trump, you truly have no idea what "left" really means. Democrats are the centre-right to the right-wing Republicans..There is no left party in the US.
This is a bit of an overstatement. The party has definitely moved more left over the past 15 years. Not a hard left but more progressive than they had been before that. It may seem like a harder shift to some because the republicans have moved hard right. Governing from the center is not a sinful tactic. It forms coalition that’s the most fair to the most amount of people. And right now, it’s politically advantageous. It may not move fast enough, but Americas governance has always moved more progressive. Sadly it’s slow and there are occasional swings backwards.
It's odd to me that people on the right see the democratic party as a whole as being "radically left", especially in a time where the Republican Party has embraced what is easily seen as being radically right. How much further right can you get than Trump and MAGA?
Also (as kind of an aside) what has often worked well for acceptance of progressive ideals (especially in environmental issues) has been work done outside the political arena to affect progressive political outcomes. For example, in his book Confessions of an Eco-Warrior, Dave Foreman (who organized the original Earth First! movement before it was infiltrated and compromised from it's "do-no-harm" to any human ethic) said that so-called radical actions (like monkeywrenching) "applies pressure to resource-extraction corporations and government agencies that otherwise are able to resist "legitimate" pressure from law-abiding conservation organizations , and broadens the spectrum of environmental activism so that lobbying by mainstream groups is not considered "extremist"."
Yet somehow, the right seems to think the Democratic party is "radically left". That's just not true.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Fox
News senior White House correspondent Jacqui Heinrich has more on who
Kamala Harris might choose to join her on the presidential ticket on
'Special Report.'
From the sidewalks of Oakland to the halls of the White House, Kamala Harris’ story is
the stuff dreams are made of…the American Dream. Because where else
could the daughter of immigrants rise to the highest office in the land,
shattering glass ceilings all along the way? Only in America.
Of
course, she had plenty of examples to show her what was possible.
Coming to America from India at only 19-years-old, her mother became a
celebrated biologist. Her father had come from Jamaica, studied at UC
Berkeley and became a renowned economist and professor at Stanford. So,
they raised her not only to see what is and what has been, but to
imagine what is possible -- not who we are, but who we can be.
It
worked because she thrived on that possibility. It took her to Vanier
College in Montreal, Howard University and the University of California
College of Law, San Francisco. It drove her to organize for justice. It
helped her prosecute murderers and rapists as the District Attorney’s
chief of the Career Criminal Division and eventually become San Francisco’s district attorney herself, then attorney general, U.S. senator and vice president.
It
gave her the moral clarity to fight the big banks who paid for their
own misdeeds by foreclosing on working families. It gave her the
strength to fight for students and veterans who were taken advantage of
by a for-profit education company and it gave her the tools to win
bringing rent relief and badly needed resources to low-income
communities during the COVID-19 pandemic, to deliver student debt relief
to countless American, to help create millions of new jobs and more.
From
campaign calls to rallies to local volunteers knocking on doors on a
Saturday morning, folks are getting tuned in all across this nation like
we’ve never seen before. It’s unprecedented. It’s historic.
Now,
because it’s her time and her turn, she is zooming through and into
history and nobody deserves it more. Yes, we recognize that politics is a
contact sport and we know that the attacks will come. In fact, some are
coming already.
But
we also recognize that a lot of the folks wearing different jerseys
than we are keep running the same old plays of racism, bigotry,
misogyny, ignorance and hate. From birtherism 2.0 and dismissing the
vice president as a DEI hire, to claiming she "became Black" and
purposefully mispronouncing her name, it’s clear that the closer we get
to history, the louder and sicker they become.
That’s OK. She can take it because the contrast is easy to see.
It’s
not just about the prosecutor vs. the felon or even the undeniable
truth vs. rapid fire lies. It’s about progress vs extremism. It’s about
who we can be.
Think
about the landmark legislation Vice President Harris helped marshal
through Congress and into law. Think about all the executive orders to
raise wages, fight climate change, protect reproductive freedom and more
that she helped make reality. Now compare that to the four years of
deprivation and degradation we saw under Donald J. Trump.
Of course, elections are about the future forecast. So, compare former President Donald Trump’s all but official endorsement of the plans laid out in Project 2025 to
President Harris signing a real bipartisan border security bill into
law, protecting a woman’s right to control her own body and make her own
health care decisions, extending the child tax credit that cut child
poverty in half, building on the more than 15 million jobs she already
helped create.
Compare
Trump’s plan to declare martial law to President Harris strengthening
the middle class, growing small businesses, expanding health care,
keeping medical debt off your credit report and making sure no one
raises taxes on Americans who make less than $400,000 per year.
While Harris knows that affordable internet is a must not a plus for all Americans, the MAGA Republicans refuse
to fund the Affordable Connectivity Program. And while they’re
screaming about imagined crises, we’re talking about raising wages,
closing the wealth gap, lowering the cost of childcare and making sure
getting sick doesn’t mean going broke.
Simply
put, Vice President Harris is a once-in-a-generation candidate who has
generated more power and energy for this country than Duke Power. It’s
been less than a month since she announced her campaign for president
and she’s already unifying the Democratic base, expanding our coalition,
stretching the map and forcing the Republicans to short circuit.
In
less than two weeks, Vice President Harris has recruited nearly 200,000
volunteers, sparked nationwide grassroots organization, secured the
Democratic nomination and raised $310 million, which is twice as much as
Trump raised through all of July.
From
campaign calls to rallies to local volunteers knocking on doors on a
Saturday morning, folks are getting tuned in all across this nation like
we’ve never seen before. It’s unprecedented. It’s historic.
Vice
President Kamala Harris is a once-in-a-generation candidate and this is
a once-in-a-generation moment for America. The choice is clear. Will we
choose truth or lies? Will we choose hope or hate? Will we choose the
future or be doomed to repeat the past?
Well, like the vice president says, we are not going back.
Antjuan Seawright is a Democratic political strategist, founder and CEO of Blueprint Strategy LLC and a senior visiting fellow at Third Way. Follow him on X, formerly known as Twitter @antjuansea.
Antjuan Seawright is a Democratic political strategist, founder and CEO of Blueprint Strategy LLC and a senior visiting fellow at Third Way. Follow him on X, formerly known as Twitter @antjuansea.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
if Pete doesn't get the nod, I would hope serious consideration by given for Sec State, but with 2 young kids.......
I think Pete Buttigieg is one of our best politicians out there. But that said, what are the chances of a black female/ person of color and gay man being elected president/vice president in the U.S. at this time in history? I really hesitate to say that could happen. I really do.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
On the other hand, some criticism of Pete in 2020 focused on whether or not he was "gay enough" -- kind of like "Is Obama Black enough?" I guess. Pete is a veteran and a Midwesterner, and the kind of well-spoken, polite guy older people like, regardless of who his spouse is (meaning, regardless of his sexuality -- I think Chasten is great!). I think it would be foolish of Dems to sideline their most gifted politician over an issue that's going to be a non-issue for anyone remotely inclined to vote for the Democratic ticket. I suspect that the people who wouldn't vote for a gay man already weren't/aren't going to vote for a brown lady.
All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
On the other hand, some criticism of Pete in 2020 focused on whether or not he was "gay enough" -- kind of like "Is Obama Black enough?" I guess. Pete is a veteran and a Midwesterner, and the kind of well-spoken, polite guy older people like, regardless of who his spouse is (meaning, regardless of his sexuality -- I think Chasten is great!). I think it would be foolish of Dems to sideline their most gifted politician over an issue that's going to be a non-issue for anyone remotely inclined to vote for the Democratic ticket. I suspect that the people who wouldn't vote for a gay man already weren't/aren't going to vote for a brown lady.
Good point and I hope you're right (although, of course, I wish it were not true that anyone would chose not to vote for someone strictly based on the color of someone's skin or their sexual orientation).
What concerns me is that I think it's quite possible that there are a sizable number of people in this country who are intelligent and/or well educated, who are not racially biased, yet who are uncomfortable with anyone being gay (let alone other non-heterosexual orientations). I don't think that's uncommon. And, should it turn out to be a tight race (quite possible, I'm afraid), I don't think taking any chance of losing this election is worth the gamble. It's all on the table this time. The U.S. is going to go one of two very distinct direction at the end of this year- freedom and democracy, or authoritarian control under an crazy dictator. I don't mean this to come across as argumentative (you know I think you're great, C!) but I'm not willing to bet even classy, beautiful, brilliant Pete on this one. Not this time.
In any case, of course, we don't get to decide, and whomever Harris chooses, I will be 100% behind them.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Comments
But if we do we will survive and we will be rid of that orange piece of shit regardless.
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Maga dies in three months.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
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See the sticky on Porch for more guidance....
the current gop has no strategy other than the wage culture wars to get people to the polls. they have no platform other than whatever trump wants and project 2025. that's it.
the gop is a dead party. it is a cult of trump that functions on grievance politics and culture wars. that is it. that's all they've got.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Just imagine the rages he goes through behind closed doors. Scary!
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
there’s a whole lotta rising stars in the Democratic Party…..thank God!
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Kamala Harris is once-in-a-generation candidate and this is a once-in-a-generation moment for America
Elections are about the future forecast
Kamala Harris secures enough delegates for presidential nomination
Fox News senior White House correspondent Jacqui Heinrich has more on who Kamala Harris might choose to join her on the presidential ticket on 'Special Report.'
From the sidewalks of Oakland to the halls of the White House, Kamala Harris’ story is the stuff dreams are made of…the American Dream. Because where else could the daughter of immigrants rise to the highest office in the land, shattering glass ceilings all along the way? Only in America.
Of course, she had plenty of examples to show her what was possible. Coming to America from India at only 19-years-old, her mother became a celebrated biologist. Her father had come from Jamaica, studied at UC Berkeley and became a renowned economist and professor at Stanford. So, they raised her not only to see what is and what has been, but to imagine what is possible -- not who we are, but who we can be.
It worked because she thrived on that possibility. It took her to Vanier College in Montreal, Howard University and the University of California College of Law, San Francisco. It drove her to organize for justice. It helped her prosecute murderers and rapists as the District Attorney’s chief of the Career Criminal Division and eventually become San Francisco’s district attorney herself, then attorney general, U.S. senator and vice president.
IT'S OFFICIAL: VICE PRESIDENT KAMALA HARRIS GOES OVER THE TOP AND CLINCHES DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL NOMINATION
It gave her the moral clarity to fight the big banks who paid for their own misdeeds by foreclosing on working families. It gave her the strength to fight for students and veterans who were taken advantage of by a for-profit education company and it gave her the tools to win bringing rent relief and badly needed resources to low-income communities during the COVID-19 pandemic, to deliver student debt relief to countless American, to help create millions of new jobs and more.
Now, because it’s her time and her turn, she is zooming through and into history and nobody deserves it more. Yes, we recognize that politics is a contact sport and we know that the attacks will come. In fact, some are coming already.
But we also recognize that a lot of the folks wearing different jerseys than we are keep running the same old plays of racism, bigotry, misogyny, ignorance and hate. From birtherism 2.0 and dismissing the vice president as a DEI hire, to claiming she "became Black" and purposefully mispronouncing her name, it’s clear that the closer we get to history, the louder and sicker they become.
2024 CASH DASH: HARRIS LAPS TRUMP IN LATEST FUNDRAISING FIGURES
That’s OK. She can take it because the contrast is easy to see.
It’s not just about the prosecutor vs. the felon or even the undeniable truth vs. rapid fire lies. It’s about progress vs extremism. It’s about who we can be.
Think about the landmark legislation Vice President Harris helped marshal through Congress and into law. Think about all the executive orders to raise wages, fight climate change, protect reproductive freedom and more that she helped make reality. Now compare that to the four years of deprivation and degradation we saw under Donald J. Trump.
1 OF THESE 5 DEMOCRATS COULD BE HARRIS' RUNNING MATE
Of course, elections are about the future forecast. So, compare former President Donald Trump’s all but official endorsement of the plans laid out in Project 2025 to President Harris signing a real bipartisan border security bill into law, protecting a woman’s right to control her own body and make her own health care decisions, extending the child tax credit that cut child poverty in half, building on the more than 15 million jobs she already helped create.
Compare Trump’s plan to declare martial law to President Harris strengthening the middle class, growing small businesses, expanding health care, keeping medical debt off your credit report and making sure no one raises taxes on Americans who make less than $400,000 per year.
While Harris knows that affordable internet is a must not a plus for all Americans, the MAGA Republicans refuse to fund the Affordable Connectivity Program. And while they’re screaming about imagined crises, we’re talking about raising wages, closing the wealth gap, lowering the cost of childcare and making sure getting sick doesn’t mean going broke.
That’s just a hint of the differences.
CLICK HERE FOR MORE FOX NEWS OPINION
Simply put, Vice President Harris is a once-in-a-generation candidate who has generated more power and energy for this country than Duke Power. It’s been less than a month since she announced her campaign for president and she’s already unifying the Democratic base, expanding our coalition, stretching the map and forcing the Republicans to short circuit.
In less than two weeks, Vice President Harris has recruited nearly 200,000 volunteers, sparked nationwide grassroots organization, secured the Democratic nomination and raised $310 million, which is twice as much as Trump raised through all of July.
From campaign calls to rallies to local volunteers knocking on doors on a Saturday morning, folks are getting tuned in all across this nation like we’ve never seen before. It’s unprecedented. It’s historic.
CLICK HERE TO GET THE FOX NEWS APP
Vice President Kamala Harris is a once-in-a-generation candidate and this is a once-in-a-generation moment for America. The choice is clear. Will we choose truth or lies? Will we choose hope or hate? Will we choose the future or be doomed to repeat the past?
Well, like the vice president says, we are not going back.
Antjuan Seawright is a Democratic political strategist, founder and CEO of Blueprint Strategy LLC and a senior visiting fellow at Third Way. Follow him on X, formerly known as Twitter @antjuansea.
Antjuan Seawright is a Democratic political strategist, founder and CEO of Blueprint Strategy LLC and a senior visiting fellow at Third Way. Follow him on X, formerly known as Twitter @antjuansea.
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Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I think Pete Buttigieg is one of our best politicians out there. But that said, what are the chances of a black female/ person of color and gay man being elected president/vice president in the U.S. at this time in history? I really hesitate to say that could happen. I really do.