** KAMALA HARRIS FOR PRESIDENT -PART DEUX **

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Comments

  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,882
    cincybearcat said:
    https://www.courierpress.com/story/news/local/2024/09/20/judge-sides-with-transgender-inmate-seeking-gender-affirming-surgery/75305308007/

    There is A LOT going on with this murderer. 
    His/her problems are the furthest thing from mine.  I could not care less whether they get treatment or not.  It's a rounding error on top of a rounding error divided by 100.  
  • curmudgeoness
    curmudgeoness Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 4,130
    mrussel1 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    https://www.courierpress.com/story/news/local/2024/09/20/judge-sides-with-transgender-inmate-seeking-gender-affirming-surgery/75305308007/

    There is A LOT going on with this murderer. 
    His/her problems are the furthest thing from mine.  I could not care less whether they get treatment or not.  It's a rounding error on top of a rounding error divided by 100.  

    I agree. This person, clearly, has a lot of serious issues. The cost of their care, on a federal scale, is less than the equivalent of whatever change you find in your sofa cushions.

    I have little -- make that no -- sympathy for someone who killed an infant. None. But that's not the issue. 

    Equal protection under the law is, in my opinion, a crucial element in our system. And it needs to apply to everyone. If we start saying, "I'm all for equal protection, but..." then we get into a slippery slope situation where we decide on a case by case basis if an individual merits equal protection -- which, by definition, no longer is equal protection.

    I believe, firmly, that our nation's laws must apply equally to everyone, regardless of socioeconomic status, regardless of race or religion, regardless of character. So I'm opposed to the death penalty for anyone, from the most heinous murderer to people like the man executed yesterday, who was thought by many to be innocent.
    Free speech must apply to everyone, even to people I find reprehensible, e.g. the Westboro Baptist Church.
    The rights and freedoms afforded to people in this country must apply to people I loathe and not just to my friends or people who meet my standards and expectations.

    Oh, also -- anyone who is agitated about the expense of government-subsidized gender-affirming care for prisoners (seriously, how many such individuals are there??) also ought to be in a lather over things like how Jared got his $2B sweetheart deal, or the many scams that popped up in 2020 to take advantage of Covid relief funds, or... etc.   
    All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,664
    curmudgeoness said:
    This is comparing apples and oranges.

    A clearly disturbed person committed a heinous crime and is serving a lengthy prison sentence for that crime. Yet, because this is the US, they still have certain rights, and they are trying to exercise those rights. This is a good thing. It is good and proper and American that even people convicted of the most horrific felonies still have some rights and protections! This isn't Russia! Who here is the least bit exercised about the man executed tonight by the state of Missouri, despite many assertions that he was innocent? Are we okay with that? I'm not!  

    On the other hand, we have a clearly disturbed person who has been convicted of some crimes, charged with dozens more, and has yet to be charged with others -- fraud, sexual assault, etc. They also mishandled a pandemic, leading to hundreds of thousands of excess deaths; invoked a mob and attempted to overthrow democracy; and, if re-elected, would cause millions of people in a free country to lose their freedom and or their lives; would do the same to the people in Gaza; would attempt to deport and/or detain millions of immigrants in this country; would use the levers of government to persecute and prosecute his perceived enemies; would attempt to stifle a free press; would deprive half of the country's citizens of their bodily autonomy; would weaken if not outright destroy international alliances and threaten global stability; has a life-long record of bullying, racism, misogyny, and fraud.

    I wouldn't want to interact with either of these people. They both pose a threat to society. But that's where the similarity ends. In the first case, that looks to me a lot like the system working the way it should. In the latter -- wow.

    Enough with the ingenuousness.  I'm a small-c conservative, which means I'm a big fan of civil liberties, strong defense, fiscal responsibility, and standing firm against Russia and authoritarians, generally. Tossing the Constitution; denigrating our all-volunteer military; spouting harebrained, half-baked "economic policies" (200% tariffs are not a thing); spouting racist conspiracy theories; rolling over for and openly admiring dictators: these are not conservative stances, they are postures signaling weakness, not strength.

    Haiti is the poorest country in the Western hemisphere. Targeting the Haitians who have come here to work and to build better lives for their families is what insecure bullies do. It's not Christian, and it's not American. Embracing hate, anger, and revenge is toxic; it's what weak, stunted people do instead of working on themselves and their issues. Stoking your rage and directing it against enemies, real or perceived, won't actually make you feel better; it will not fill the hole inside you, it will not build anything, it only destroys.
    I was raised in that sort of environment, with the performative cruelty and cosplaying toughness, the pettiness, the paranoia. It's corrosive. And now I see that behavior being flaunted and praised and excused and waved away, on a national scale, and it just makes me sick to see it.


    Excellent post, C! 
    And on top of being a criminal, Trump posing as a Christian and a conservative is a bad joke. He uses label to fool his gullible followers.  The question is, how can so many millions of T-cult followers be taught to think critically and be deprogrammed from the massive number of lies they have been fed?  It seems like an overwhelming task, but an essential one to preserving democracy.  
    And I'm not saying everyone should become a die-hard liberal.  I think there are small c-conservative (I like that term) views that make good sense.  But the radical right has made "conservative" a swear word.  Conservation, as in prevention of wasteful use of resources, is certainly not evil.  Conserving, as in prolonging the existence of something useful and good (like courtesy, respect, honor, dignity), is not a terrible thing.
    And although I do not call myself a Christian, but I know the difference between a true person of faith and a huckster who used that term.
    We need to learn to understand these terms for what they really mean and recognize that power hungry ego-maniacs do not.  Kamala Harris may not be that person 100%, but she is far more that person than Trump by 1000%.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,490
    very well said C
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,797
    curmudgeoness said:

    Oh, also -- anyone who is agitated about the expense of government-subsidized gender-affirming care for prisoners (seriously, how many such individuals are there??) also ought to be in a lather over things like how Jared got his $2B sweetheart deal, or the many scams that popped up in 2020 to take advantage of Covid relief funds, or... etc.   
    It's selective outrage motivated by the culture war bullshit being spoon fed to marks on a daily basis. 
  • curmudgeoness
    curmudgeoness Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 4,130
    Brian wrote: "And on top of being a criminal, Trump posing as a Christian and a conservative is a bad joke. He uses label to fool his gullible followers."

    I'm going to reference Andrew Sullivan here, with the caveat that his misogyny/ "big gay blind spot" when it comes to women's issues is truly jaw-dropping. That said, he did have some interesting takes on religion.
    Specifically, he refers to "Christianism," an extremist, militant distortion of Christianity akin to "Islamism," a radical, distorted version of Islam. The "religion" promoted by MAGA is Christianism, not Christianity. I also do not describe myself as a Christian; I'm a lapsed Presbyterian. I don't disdain religion -- I respect the important role faith plays in many people's lives -- but I've struggled with the concept and consequences of organized religion for my entire life. I view faith and spirituality as highly individualized and even private, by necessity.
    Anyway. All of that said, I have read the Bible a few times, and I'm able to distinguish between the Old and New Testaments, and I know darn well that the vengeful G-d is in the Old Testament, and Jesus never said, if someone punches you, punch back twice as hard. Jesus was the original social justice warrior, not a Bible-wielding Rambo. He healed the sick, fed the hungry, cared for the least among us. In other words, in the language of MAGA, he was a cuck, a lib, a snowflake.
    Actual Christians, who have read the Bible and heed Jesus's message, welcome refugees and Haitian immigrants, would never think of withholding care from a woman experiencing a miscarriage, feed the homeless, care for their pets. I've met these people, they're out there, not making headlines, just living their lives and doing the right thing. 

    All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,837
    Merkin Baller said:
    curmudgeoness said:

    Oh, also -- anyone who is agitated about the expense of government-subsidized gender-affirming care for prisoners (seriously, how many such individuals are there??) also ought to be in a lather over things like how Jared got his $2B sweetheart deal, or the many scams that popped up in 2020 to take advantage of Covid relief funds, or... etc.   
    It's selective outrage motivated by the culture war bullshit being spoon fed to marks on a daily basis. 
    It's also just a "whatbout" statement.  It's ok to talk an issue and have an opinion.  And it doesn't mean people aren't upset over other things as well.  Always find this weird.

    Otherwise that was a great post curmudgeoness.  I do disagree with you on this specific case (and a couple of other things), but was a really nice read of your opinion.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • curmudgeoness
    curmudgeoness Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 4,130
    cincybearcat said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    curmudgeoness said:

    Oh, also -- anyone who is agitated about the expense of government-subsidized gender-affirming care for prisoners (seriously, how many such individuals are there??) also ought to be in a lather over things like how Jared got his $2B sweetheart deal, or the many scams that popped up in 2020 to take advantage of Covid relief funds, or... etc.   
    It's selective outrage motivated by the culture war bullshit being spoon fed to marks on a daily basis. 
    It's also just a "whatbout" statement.  It's ok to talk an issue and have an opinion.  And it doesn't mean people aren't upset over other things as well.  Always find this weird.

    Otherwise that was a great post curmudgeoness.  I do disagree with you on this specific case (and a couple of other things), but was a really nice read of your opinion.

    I don't expect everyone to agree with me -- I welcome good faith discussions and disagreements!
    All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
  • The Juggler
    The Juggler Posts: 49,597
    curmudgeoness said:
    mrussel1 said:
    cincybearcat said:
    https://www.courierpress.com/story/news/local/2024/09/20/judge-sides-with-transgender-inmate-seeking-gender-affirming-surgery/75305308007/

    There is A LOT going on with this murderer. 
    His/her problems are the furthest thing from mine.  I could not care less whether they get treatment or not.  It's a rounding error on top of a rounding error divided by 100.  

    I agree. This person, clearly, has a lot of serious issues. The cost of their care, on a federal scale, is less than the equivalent of whatever change you find in your sofa cushions.

    I have little -- make that no -- sympathy for someone who killed an infant. None. But that's not the issue. 

    Equal protection under the law is, in my opinion, a crucial element in our system. And it needs to apply to everyone. If we start saying, "I'm all for equal protection, but..." then we get into a slippery slope situation where we decide on a case by case basis if an individual merits equal protection -- which, by definition, no longer is equal protection.

    I believe, firmly, that our nation's laws must apply equally to everyone, regardless of socioeconomic status, regardless of race or religion, regardless of character. So I'm opposed to the death penalty for anyone, from the most heinous murderer to people like the man executed yesterday, who was thought by many to be innocent.
    Free speech must apply to everyone, even to people I find reprehensible, e.g. the Westboro Baptist Church.
    The rights and freedoms afforded to people in this country must apply to people I loathe and not just to my friends or people who meet my standards and expectations.

    Oh, also -- anyone who is agitated about the expense of government-subsidized gender-affirming care for prisoners (seriously, how many such individuals are there??) also ought to be in a lather over things like how Jared got his $2B sweetheart deal, or the many scams that popped up in 2020 to take advantage of Covid relief funds, or... etc.   
    Stop making so much much sense. 
    www.myspace.com
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,797
    cincybearcat said:
    Merkin Baller said:
    curmudgeoness said:

    Oh, also -- anyone who is agitated about the expense of government-subsidized gender-affirming care for prisoners (seriously, how many such individuals are there??) also ought to be in a lather over things like how Jared got his $2B sweetheart deal, or the many scams that popped up in 2020 to take advantage of Covid relief funds, or... etc.   
    It's selective outrage motivated by the culture war bullshit being spoon fed to marks on a daily basis. 
    It's also just a "whatbout" statement.  It's ok to talk an issue and have an opinion.  And it doesn't mean people aren't upset over other things as well.  Always find this weird.

    What Curmudgeoness said isn't without its merit though. The amount of outrage over transgender issues is in no way proportionate to the amount of actual transgender issues facing our country. 

    I agree, it's perfectly ok to have an opinion, and discuss, but to pin this on "Kamala's America" is absurd and I stand by my statement: it's culture war bullshit being spoon fed to marks. 
  • curmudgeoness
    curmudgeoness Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 4,130
    edited September 2024
    Per the AMA, there are 4,890 transgender individuals incarcerated in state prisons in the US and approximately another 1200 are in federal prisons.  That's out of an estimated 2-2.3 million incarcerated people, total, in this country of 345 million.

    That's 0.28% of incarcerated people, 0.00174% of Americans. 
    Assuming gender-affirming care costs $100,000 per person, and 6000 prisoners asked for that care, that would cost $600M. That's a lot of money!  But the US federal budget is $6.5T this year (one trillion = one million million), so $600M = 0.009% of the federal budget.

    Post edited by curmudgeoness on
    All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
  • curmudgeoness
    curmudgeoness Brigadoon, foodie capital Posts: 4,130
    (I was a humanities major -- math is hard! LOL)
    All those who seek to destroy the liberties of a democratic nation ought to know that war is the surest and shortest means to accomplish it.
  • Philly NJ
    Philly NJ Posts: 245
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    Philly NJ said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    Philly NJ said:
    brianlux said:
    In support of what I said a little earlier, instead of berating a group of people we disagree with (but do berate Trump and Vance, please, they deserve it), let's get out some information that might turn some of the MAGA people around.  Like, for example, this from Heather Cox Richardson's letter this evening.  Make photo copies of this and pass them around:

    On Sunday, a bipartisan group of 741 national security leaders—some of the biggest names in the field—endorsed Harris. “To the American People,” they wrote. “We are former public servants who swore an oath to the Constitution. Many of us risked our lives for it. We are retired generals, admirals, senior noncommissioned officers, ambassadors, and senior civilian national security leaders. We are Republicans, Democrats, and Independents. We are loyal to the ideals of our nation—like freedom, democracy, and the rule of law—not to any one individual or party.

    “We do not agree on everything, but we all adhere to two fundamental principles. First, we believe America’s national security requires a serious and capable Commander-in-Chief. Second, we believe American democracy is invaluable. Each generation has a responsibility to defend it. That is why we, the undersigned, proudly endorse Kamala Harris to be the next President of the United States.

    “This election is a choice between serious leadership and vengeful impulsiveness. It is a choice between democracy and authoritarianism. Vice President Harris defends America’s democratic ideals, while former President Donald Trump endangers them.

    “We do not make such an assessment lightly. We are trained to make sober, rational decisions. That is how we know Vice President Harris would make an excellent Commander-in-Chief, while Mr. Trump has proven he is not up to the job.”


    Kinda reminds me of the 51 "national intelligence" experts that said the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation.  If I recall, Donald was POTUS for 4 years and I don't remember any "vengeful impulsiveness".  

    Harris/Biden have presided over more evacuations of U.S. embassies—a total of 11—than any other presidential administration in U.S. history. 

    I also recall Harris/Biden allowing Chinese spy balloons to cross the US, and lie about it. I recall the Harris/Biden vax mandate resulting in 1000s of highly trained Special Operation soldiers leaving the military.  So much more...

     
    you mean the chinese balloon that was shot down as soon as it was safe to do so? that balloon?
    Do you really believe that? We want to know if you honestly believe that.
    considering i watched an f-22 shoot it down, yeah.
    We want to know if you believe it was shot down "as soon as it was safe to do so".  The China spy balloon was first detected over Alaska.  Harris/Biden waited to shoot it down off the coast of Myrtle Beach.
  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,797
    Imagine giving a shit about the spy balloon when the GOP candidate for president is liable to sell our national secrets to the highest bidder or worse... give them to anyone who flatters him? 
  • tbergs
    tbergs Posts: 10,410
    Philly NJ said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    Philly NJ said:
    gimmesometruth27 said:
    Philly NJ said:
    brianlux said:
    In support of what I said a little earlier, instead of berating a group of people we disagree with (but do berate Trump and Vance, please, they deserve it), let's get out some information that might turn some of the MAGA people around.  Like, for example, this from Heather Cox Richardson's letter this evening.  Make photo copies of this and pass them around:

    On Sunday, a bipartisan group of 741 national security leaders—some of the biggest names in the field—endorsed Harris. “To the American People,” they wrote. “We are former public servants who swore an oath to the Constitution. Many of us risked our lives for it. We are retired generals, admirals, senior noncommissioned officers, ambassadors, and senior civilian national security leaders. We are Republicans, Democrats, and Independents. We are loyal to the ideals of our nation—like freedom, democracy, and the rule of law—not to any one individual or party.

    “We do not agree on everything, but we all adhere to two fundamental principles. First, we believe America’s national security requires a serious and capable Commander-in-Chief. Second, we believe American democracy is invaluable. Each generation has a responsibility to defend it. That is why we, the undersigned, proudly endorse Kamala Harris to be the next President of the United States.

    “This election is a choice between serious leadership and vengeful impulsiveness. It is a choice between democracy and authoritarianism. Vice President Harris defends America’s democratic ideals, while former President Donald Trump endangers them.

    “We do not make such an assessment lightly. We are trained to make sober, rational decisions. That is how we know Vice President Harris would make an excellent Commander-in-Chief, while Mr. Trump has proven he is not up to the job.”


    Kinda reminds me of the 51 "national intelligence" experts that said the Hunter Biden laptop was Russian disinformation.  If I recall, Donald was POTUS for 4 years and I don't remember any "vengeful impulsiveness".  

    Harris/Biden have presided over more evacuations of U.S. embassies—a total of 11—than any other presidential administration in U.S. history. 

    I also recall Harris/Biden allowing Chinese spy balloons to cross the US, and lie about it. I recall the Harris/Biden vax mandate resulting in 1000s of highly trained Special Operation soldiers leaving the military.  So much more...

     
    you mean the chinese balloon that was shot down as soon as it was safe to do so? that balloon?
    Do you really believe that? We want to know if you honestly believe that.
    considering i watched an f-22 shoot it down, yeah.
    We want to know if you believe it was shot down "as soon as it was safe to do so".  The China spy balloon was first detected over Alaska.  Harris/Biden waited to shoot it down off the coast of Myrtle Beach.
    Why do you keep saying "we"? Are you referencing the general collective on here or are all banned posters using your account these days?
    It's a hopeless situation...
  • Go Beavers
    Go Beavers Posts: 9,561
    Merkin Baller said:
    Imagine giving a shit about the spy balloon when the GOP candidate for president is liable to sell our national secrets to the highest bidder or worse... give them to anyone who flatters him? 

    ‘The special counsel’s indictment alleges that those in attendance at the meeting with Trump — including a writer, a publisher and two of Trump’s staff members — were shown classified information about a Pentagon plan of attack on an unspecified foreign country.

    “These are the papers,” Trump says in a moment that seems to indicate he’s holding a secret Pentagon document with plans to attack Iran. “This was done by the military, given to me.”

  • Merkin Baller
    Merkin Baller Posts: 12,797
    edited September 2024
    There's a reason why countries like China and Russia want trump back in office. 
  • Philly NJ
    Philly NJ Posts: 245
    mrussel1 said:
    teskeinc said:
    This is Autumn Cordellione, he strangled a 11 month old baby to death. He is serving 55 years in prison  He wants a sex-change operation in prison. In Kamala’s America he/she/it gets one……on the American tax-payers dime. It’s not medically necessary, it’s an elective ($100,000) procedure. 




    Or... we can vote for someone who encouraged a mob to attack the Capitol.  Easy call which is worse.



    Not voting for Ray Epps and or any member of Antifa.
  • Tim Simmons
    Tim Simmons Posts: 9,617
    We have the dumbest conversations in this thread.
  • njhaley1
    njhaley1 Valley of the Sun Posts: 877
    War is peace.
    Freedom is slavery.
    Ignorance is strength.
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