** KAMALA HARRIS FOR PRESIDENT -PART DEUX **

Gern Blansten

tbergs said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

teskeinc said:

3 year anniversary of the botched Afghanistan withdrawal yesterday. Families of the 13 killed at Abbey Gate stated neither Kamala Harris or Joe Biden never contacted them offering condolences. Thank you Kamala for being the last one in the room!

At least Joe offered condolences to the guy in Kabul he blew up loading water bottles in his trunk. 

How sick are Biden and Harris?

President Biden’s choices for how to execute a withdrawal from Afghanistan were severely constrained by conditions created by his predecessor. When President Trump took office in 2017, there were more than 10,000 troops in Afghanistan. Eighteen months later, after introducing more than 3,000 additional troops just to maintain the stalemate, President Trump ordered direct talks with the Taliban without consulting with our allies and partners or allowing the Afghan government at the negotiating table. In September 2019, President Trump embolded the Taliban by publicly considering inviting them to Camp David on the anniversary of 9/11. In February 2020, the United States and the Taliban reached a deal, known as the Doha Agreement, under which the United States agreed to withdraw all U.S. forces from Afghanistan by May 2021. In return, the Taliban agreed to participate in a peace process and refrain from attacking U.S. troops and threatening Afghanistan’s major cities—but only as long as the United States remained committed to withdraw by the agreement’s deadline. As part of the deal, President Trump also pressured the Afghan government to release 5,000 Taliban fighters from prison, including senior war commanders, without securing the release of the only American hostage known to be held by the Taliban.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/US-Withdrawal-from-Afghanistan.pdf

I mean, this is basically propaganda from the WH to paint themselves as good as possible. Not that some of it doesn't have merit, but it also has a purpose, downplay mistakes and ramp up failures of others. I don't think I would choose this topic as a defense for Biden or Harris. Yes, they did get the US out, but the execution was flawed. Most of us who aren't in a cult recognize the challenges created by Trump, the rest only care about semantics.

how so? One suicide bomber was the issue. Preventable? Maybe...but anyone willing to commit suicide is going to be hard to stop.

That's the extent of the deaths right? Would that have occurred at some point regardless of the withdrawal? How many people would have been dead by now if we hadn't withdrawn?

The Juggler

teskeinc said:

It shows how brainwashed this forum is when Zuckerberg just admitted that the Biden/Harris administration coerced Facebook to censor things not favorable to them. And no one can even step up and say what they did was totally wrong.You were lied to, you think that was the only app or medium? Wake up!


Regardless of your political affiliation there are some things that shouldn’t be defended. 

yeah you tell 'em buddy! 

tbergs

teskeinc said:

tbergs said:

Merkin Baller said:

WTF are people entertaining this loser? 

There are legitimate criticisms to be discussed in some of the topics, but they don't have any interest in a discussion, just gotcha moments without context. 

You have a few people here that actually like to discuss the topics. The others don’t have anything constructive to say so they just post an insult so they don’t feel left out when the other adults are discussing an issue.

You've also established yourself as someone who only seems interested in shit posting and then getting in to trash talking back and forths with others who let what you post get to them. I don't really care because I mostly ignore your spam posts, unless I see something worth replying to. If you really want to bring up an issue for discussion, state your opinion and what you don't like. Some people on here have posted some pretty in depth responses to your posts which you've ignored and then someone else posts a 2 sentence come backer and we're off the rails for several pages with stupid personal comments.

Halifax2TheMax

tbergs said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

teskeinc said:

3 year anniversary of the botched Afghanistan withdrawal yesterday. Families of the 13 killed at Abbey Gate stated neither Kamala Harris or Joe Biden never contacted them offering condolences. Thank you Kamala for being the last one in the room!

At least Joe offered condolences to the guy in Kabul he blew up loading water bottles in his trunk. 

How sick are Biden and Harris?

President Biden’s choices for how to execute a withdrawal from Afghanistan were severely constrained by conditions created by his predecessor. When President Trump took office in 2017, there were more than 10,000 troops in Afghanistan. Eighteen months later, after introducing more than 3,000 additional troops just to maintain the stalemate, President Trump ordered direct talks with the Taliban without consulting with our allies and partners or allowing the Afghan government at the negotiating table. In September 2019, President Trump embolded the Taliban by publicly considering inviting them to Camp David on the anniversary of 9/11. In February 2020, the United States and the Taliban reached a deal, known as the Doha Agreement, under which the United States agreed to withdraw all U.S. forces from Afghanistan by May 2021. In return, the Taliban agreed to participate in a peace process and refrain from attacking U.S. troops and threatening Afghanistan’s major cities—but only as long as the United States remained committed to withdraw by the agreement’s deadline. As part of the deal, President Trump also pressured the Afghan government to release 5,000 Taliban fighters from prison, including senior war commanders, without securing the release of the only American hostage known to be held by the Taliban.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/US-Withdrawal-from-Afghanistan.pdf

I mean, this is basically propaganda from the WH to paint themselves as good as possible. Not that some of it doesn't have merit, but it also has a purpose, downplay mistakes and ramp up failures of others. I don't think I would choose this topic as a defense for Biden or Harris. Yes, they did get the US out, but the execution was flawed. Most of us who aren't in a cult recognize the challenges created by Trump, the rest only care about semantics.

Nobody but those that were on the ground and had/have a full understanding of the geopolitical situation knew that no matter what you did, you were fucked because the Afghan army was going to collapse as soon as the US said they were out. There never was going to be an “orderly efficient withdrawal.”

Its what 11 years of repubs and 9 years of dem administrations being played by Pakistan (remember them) gets you.

The Juggler

tbergs said:

teskeinc said:

tbergs said:

Merkin Baller said:

WTF are people entertaining this loser? 

There are legitimate criticisms to be discussed in some of the topics, but they don't have any interest in a discussion, just gotcha moments without context. 

You have a few people here that actually like to discuss the topics. The others don’t have anything constructive to say so they just post an insult so they don’t feel left out when the other adults are discussing an issue.

You've also established yourself as someone who only seems interested in shit posting and then getting in to trash talking back and forths with others who let what you post get to them. I don't really care because I mostly ignore your spam posts, unless I see something worth replying to. If you really want to bring up an issue for discussion, state your opinion and what you don't like. Some people on here have posted some pretty in depth responses to your posts which you've ignored and then someone else posts a 2 sentence come backer and we're off the rails for several pages with stupid personal comments.

You only get a certain amount of chances to prove you're a serious person. 

gimmesometruth27

The Juggler said:

tbergs said:

teskeinc said:

tbergs said:

Merkin Baller said:

WTF are people entertaining this loser? 

There are legitimate criticisms to be discussed in some of the topics, but they don't have any interest in a discussion, just gotcha moments without context. 

You have a few people here that actually like to discuss the topics. The others don’t have anything constructive to say so they just post an insult so they don’t feel left out when the other adults are discussing an issue.

You've also established yourself as someone who only seems interested in shit posting and then getting in to trash talking back and forths with others who let what you post get to them. I don't really care because I mostly ignore your spam posts, unless I see something worth replying to. If you really want to bring up an issue for discussion, state your opinion and what you don't like. Some people on here have posted some pretty in depth responses to your posts which you've ignored and then someone else posts a 2 sentence come backer and we're off the rails for several pages with stupid personal comments.

You only get a certain amount of chances to prove you're a serious person. 

especially when your first post is a misrepresentation of your politics. it's like dipping a toe in the water before cannonballing in.

teskeinc

Gern Blansten said:

tbergs said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

teskeinc said:

3 year anniversary of the botched Afghanistan withdrawal yesterday. Families of the 13 killed at Abbey Gate stated neither Kamala Harris or Joe Biden never contacted them offering condolences. Thank you Kamala for being the last one in the room!

At least Joe offered condolences to the guy in Kabul he blew up loading water bottles in his trunk. 

How sick are Biden and Harris?

President Biden’s choices for how to execute a withdrawal from Afghanistan were severely constrained by conditions created by his predecessor. When President Trump took office in 2017, there were more than 10,000 troops in Afghanistan. Eighteen months later, after introducing more than 3,000 additional troops just to maintain the stalemate, President Trump ordered direct talks with the Taliban without consulting with our allies and partners or allowing the Afghan government at the negotiating table. In September 2019, President Trump embolded the Taliban by publicly considering inviting them to Camp David on the anniversary of 9/11. In February 2020, the United States and the Taliban reached a deal, known as the Doha Agreement, under which the United States agreed to withdraw all U.S. forces from Afghanistan by May 2021. In return, the Taliban agreed to participate in a peace process and refrain from attacking U.S. troops and threatening Afghanistan’s major cities—but only as long as the United States remained committed to withdraw by the agreement’s deadline. As part of the deal, President Trump also pressured the Afghan government to release 5,000 Taliban fighters from prison, including senior war commanders, without securing the release of the only American hostage known to be held by the Taliban.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/US-Withdrawal-from-Afghanistan.pdf

I mean, this is basically propaganda from the WH to paint themselves as good as possible. Not that some of it doesn't have merit, but it also has a purpose, downplay mistakes and ramp up failures of others. I don't think I would choose this topic as a defense for Biden or Harris. Yes, they did get the US out, but the execution was flawed. Most of us who aren't in a cult recognize the challenges created by Trump, the rest only care about semantics.

how so? One suicide bomber was the issue. Preventable? Maybe...but anyone willing to commit suicide is going to be hard to stop.

That's the extent of the deaths right? Would that have occurred at some point regardless of the withdrawal? How many people would have been dead by now if we hadn't withdrawn?

Does that excuse Biden/Harris never contacting the families of those who died at Abbey Gate? Or looking bored and checking his watch as caskets rolled off the plane?

tbergs

gimmesometruth27 said:

tbergs said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

teskeinc said:

3 year anniversary of the botched Afghanistan withdrawal yesterday. Families of the 13 killed at Abbey Gate stated neither Kamala Harris or Joe Biden never contacted them offering condolences. Thank you Kamala for being the last one in the room!

At least Joe offered condolences to the guy in Kabul he blew up loading water bottles in his trunk. 

How sick are Biden and Harris?

President Biden’s choices for how to execute a withdrawal from Afghanistan were severely constrained by conditions created by his predecessor. When President Trump took office in 2017, there were more than 10,000 troops in Afghanistan. Eighteen months later, after introducing more than 3,000 additional troops just to maintain the stalemate, President Trump ordered direct talks with the Taliban without consulting with our allies and partners or allowing the Afghan government at the negotiating table. In September 2019, President Trump embolded the Taliban by publicly considering inviting them to Camp David on the anniversary of 9/11. In February 2020, the United States and the Taliban reached a deal, known as the Doha Agreement, under which the United States agreed to withdraw all U.S. forces from Afghanistan by May 2021. In return, the Taliban agreed to participate in a peace process and refrain from attacking U.S. troops and threatening Afghanistan’s major cities—but only as long as the United States remained committed to withdraw by the agreement’s deadline. As part of the deal, President Trump also pressured the Afghan government to release 5,000 Taliban fighters from prison, including senior war commanders, without securing the release of the only American hostage known to be held by the Taliban.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/US-Withdrawal-from-Afghanistan.pdf

I mean, this is basically propaganda from the WH to paint themselves as good as possible. Not that some of it doesn't have merit, but it also has a purpose, downplay mistakes and ramp up failures of others. I don't think I would choose this topic as a defense for Biden or Harris. Yes, they did get the US out, but the execution was flawed. Most of us who aren't in a cult recognize the challenges created by Trump, the rest only care about semantics.

should we have stayed there and broken the deal?

it was a tough decision. unfortunately people died. nobody ever gets out of a war cleanly, especially when occupying another country.

Of course we shouldn't have stayed, that's not what I'm arguing. I'm saying that mistakes were made in the process and it was a rush job. It's always easier to criticize in hindsight, but I think it's been established that it was not unrealistic for the US to be better prepared in the evacuation. You can read several neutral, and even left leaning journalists, who are critical of how it played out. I'll cite just one which I think does a good job outlining some of the problems.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/what-the-biden-administrations-report-on-the-afghanistan-withdrawal-gets-wrong/

Yet it’s also not quite correct to suggest that the Trump administration alone is to blame for how the summer of 2021 unfolded or the harried nature of the last two weeks of August in Kabul. Biden and his team had agency in the decision to withdraw in 2021 and in the manner of the withdrawal. And the roots of the fall of the Afghan government and the army in 2021 went beyond the Doha deal — they were a deeper reflection of the ultimately unsuccessful 20-year American effort in Afghanistan. Any honest reckoning with the events of August 2021 is incomplete without acknowledging that.

The Biden administration undertook an Afghanistan review in the early months of 2021. There were a few choices it should have considered seriously, other than the two it says it had: to leave on the Doha deal’s timeline or to stay on, risking American lives; it chose the former. But it could have exercised more agency (as I argued at the time). It could have focused on pushing harder for an intra-Afghan peace deal (between the Afghan government and the Taliban), attempting a soft conditionality of the withdrawal on achieving such a peace deal; or it could have formally attempted a renegotiation of the Doha deal. In the end, the decision to withdraw according to the summer 2021 timeline displayed extraordinary fidelity to a Doha deal negotiated by a predecessor whose other policy actions Biden certainly has not taken as given. It was also a deal in which the other party, the Taliban, was not reliable, and to whose terms it had not stuck, even in terms of counterterrorism. And in the end, for all the administration’s critique of the Doha deal, it chose to retain Khalilzad, its chief negotiator, as its own Afghanistan point person through the withdrawal.

This is not to discredit the courage or effort it took for an American President to finally end the disaster in Afghanistan, but with that we should all be able to admit the failures along with the success of actual full withdrawal without constantly trying to blame someone else. It can be both.

Ultimately, I blame Bush for the most epic disaster this country has been involved in since Vietnam. So while miss a GOP candidate that was at least friendlier to his American counterparts, I don't miss warhawk GOP equivalents. Bush, and his admin now supporting Harris, can fuck right off in to eternity. Their renewed confidence in being able to speak out again after all their lies and bullshit, only furthers the point of how much more shitty the GOP has become and how more centerline dems are currently.

The Juggler

gimmesometruth27 said:

The Juggler said:

tbergs said:

teskeinc said:

tbergs said:

Merkin Baller said:

WTF are people entertaining this loser? 

There are legitimate criticisms to be discussed in some of the topics, but they don't have any interest in a discussion, just gotcha moments without context. 

You have a few people here that actually like to discuss the topics. The others don’t have anything constructive to say so they just post an insult so they don’t feel left out when the other adults are discussing an issue.

You've also established yourself as someone who only seems interested in shit posting and then getting in to trash talking back and forths with others who let what you post get to them. I don't really care because I mostly ignore your spam posts, unless I see something worth replying to. If you really want to bring up an issue for discussion, state your opinion and what you don't like. Some people on here have posted some pretty in depth responses to your posts which you've ignored and then someone else posts a 2 sentence come backer and we're off the rails for several pages with stupid personal comments.

You only get a certain amount of chances to prove you're a serious person. 

especially when your first post is a misrepresentation of your politics. it's like dipping a toe in the water before cannonballing in.

Yeah. There's no point in seriously engaging with someone like that. 

gimmesometruth27

tbergs said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

tbergs said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

teskeinc said:

3 year anniversary of the botched Afghanistan withdrawal yesterday. Families of the 13 killed at Abbey Gate stated neither Kamala Harris or Joe Biden never contacted them offering condolences. Thank you Kamala for being the last one in the room!

At least Joe offered condolences to the guy in Kabul he blew up loading water bottles in his trunk. 

How sick are Biden and Harris?

President Biden’s choices for how to execute a withdrawal from Afghanistan were severely constrained by conditions created by his predecessor. When President Trump took office in 2017, there were more than 10,000 troops in Afghanistan. Eighteen months later, after introducing more than 3,000 additional troops just to maintain the stalemate, President Trump ordered direct talks with the Taliban without consulting with our allies and partners or allowing the Afghan government at the negotiating table. In September 2019, President Trump embolded the Taliban by publicly considering inviting them to Camp David on the anniversary of 9/11. In February 2020, the United States and the Taliban reached a deal, known as the Doha Agreement, under which the United States agreed to withdraw all U.S. forces from Afghanistan by May 2021. In return, the Taliban agreed to participate in a peace process and refrain from attacking U.S. troops and threatening Afghanistan’s major cities—but only as long as the United States remained committed to withdraw by the agreement’s deadline. As part of the deal, President Trump also pressured the Afghan government to release 5,000 Taliban fighters from prison, including senior war commanders, without securing the release of the only American hostage known to be held by the Taliban.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/US-Withdrawal-from-Afghanistan.pdf

I mean, this is basically propaganda from the WH to paint themselves as good as possible. Not that some of it doesn't have merit, but it also has a purpose, downplay mistakes and ramp up failures of others. I don't think I would choose this topic as a defense for Biden or Harris. Yes, they did get the US out, but the execution was flawed. Most of us who aren't in a cult recognize the challenges created by Trump, the rest only care about semantics.

should we have stayed there and broken the deal?

it was a tough decision. unfortunately people died. nobody ever gets out of a war cleanly, especially when occupying another country.

Of course we shouldn't have stayed, that's not what I'm arguing. I'm saying that mistakes were made in the process and it was a rush job. It's always easier to criticize in hindsight, but I think it's been established that it was not unrealistic for the US to be better prepared in the evacuation. You can read several neutral, and even left leaning journalists, who are critical of how it played out. I'll cite just one which I think does a good job outlining some of the problems.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/what-the-biden-administrations-report-on-the-afghanistan-withdrawal-gets-wrong/

Yet it’s also not quite correct to suggest that the Trump administration alone is to blame for how the summer of 2021 unfolded or the harried nature of the last two weeks of August in Kabul. Biden and his team had agency in the decision to withdraw in 2021 and in the manner of the withdrawal. And the roots of the fall of the Afghan government and the army in 2021 went beyond the Doha deal — they were a deeper reflection of the ultimately unsuccessful 20-year American effort in Afghanistan. Any honest reckoning with the events of August 2021 is incomplete without acknowledging that.

The Biden administration undertook an Afghanistan review in the early months of 2021. There were a few choices it should have considered seriously, other than the two it says it had: to leave on the Doha deal’s timeline or to stay on, risking American lives; it chose the former. But it could have exercised more agency (as I argued at the time). It could have focused on pushing harder for an intra-Afghan peace deal (between the Afghan government and the Taliban), attempting a soft conditionality of the withdrawal on achieving such a peace deal; or it could have formally attempted a renegotiation of the Doha deal. In the end, the decision to withdraw according to the summer 2021 timeline displayed extraordinary fidelity to a Doha deal negotiated by a predecessor whose other policy actions Biden certainly has not taken as given. It was also a deal in which the other party, the Taliban, was not reliable, and to whose terms it had not stuck, even in terms of counterterrorism. And in the end, for all the administration’s critique of the Doha deal, it chose to retain Khalilzad, its chief negotiator, as its own Afghanistan point person through the withdrawal.

This is not to discredit the courage or effort it took for an American President to finally end the disaster in Afghanistan, but with that we should all be able to admit the failures along with the success of actual full withdrawal without constantly trying to blame someone else. It can be both.

Ultimately, I blame Bush for the most epic disaster this country has been involved in since Vietnam. So while miss a GOP candidate that was at least friendlier to his American counterparts, I don't miss warhawk GOP equivalents. Bush, and his admin now supporting Harris, can fuck right off in to eternity. Their renewed confidence in being able to speak out again after all their lies and bullshit, only furthers the point of how much more shitty the GOP has become and how more centerline dems are currently.

i agree. i don't like how it turned out either, but we had to get out. yes it was rushed, yes people died, including afghan civilians, but like i said, there is no clean exit from a war. no matter how bad we want it, there is no clean exit.

i agree, bush and the neocons are completely to blame. i think the only reason those people are sticking their heads up at this point is because trump was so terrible on so many more levels, that they feel like it is safe to speak up. if trump had been even a decent president and the gop had not gone full blown maga, we would never hear from w and cheney again. those guys got away with war crimes and are free to live out their natural lives with no worries. to me that is the most tragic part. the perpetrators got away with it and have continued to live on free from worry of prosecution. 

tbergs

teskeinc said:

Gern Blansten said:

tbergs said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

teskeinc said:

3 year anniversary of the botched Afghanistan withdrawal yesterday. Families of the 13 killed at Abbey Gate stated neither Kamala Harris or Joe Biden never contacted them offering condolences. Thank you Kamala for being the last one in the room!

At least Joe offered condolences to the guy in Kabul he blew up loading water bottles in his trunk. 

How sick are Biden and Harris?

President Biden’s choices for how to execute a withdrawal from Afghanistan were severely constrained by conditions created by his predecessor. When President Trump took office in 2017, there were more than 10,000 troops in Afghanistan. Eighteen months later, after introducing more than 3,000 additional troops just to maintain the stalemate, President Trump ordered direct talks with the Taliban without consulting with our allies and partners or allowing the Afghan government at the negotiating table. In September 2019, President Trump embolded the Taliban by publicly considering inviting them to Camp David on the anniversary of 9/11. In February 2020, the United States and the Taliban reached a deal, known as the Doha Agreement, under which the United States agreed to withdraw all U.S. forces from Afghanistan by May 2021. In return, the Taliban agreed to participate in a peace process and refrain from attacking U.S. troops and threatening Afghanistan’s major cities—but only as long as the United States remained committed to withdraw by the agreement’s deadline. As part of the deal, President Trump also pressured the Afghan government to release 5,000 Taliban fighters from prison, including senior war commanders, without securing the release of the only American hostage known to be held by the Taliban.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/US-Withdrawal-from-Afghanistan.pdf

I mean, this is basically propaganda from the WH to paint themselves as good as possible. Not that some of it doesn't have merit, but it also has a purpose, downplay mistakes and ramp up failures of others. I don't think I would choose this topic as a defense for Biden or Harris. Yes, they did get the US out, but the execution was flawed. Most of us who aren't in a cult recognize the challenges created by Trump, the rest only care about semantics.

how so? One suicide bomber was the issue. Preventable? Maybe...but anyone willing to commit suicide is going to be hard to stop.

That's the extent of the deaths right? Would that have occurred at some point regardless of the withdrawal? How many people would have been dead by now if we hadn't withdrawn?

Does that excuse Biden/Harris never contacting the families of those who died at Abbey Gate? Or looking bored and checking his watch as caskets rolled off the plane?

This is just nonsense. Biden met with families privately within a few weeks. Has he called them since? Maybe not, but you know the only reason Trump is now doing it is for political reasons and points with the military families. If being used as political ploys makes them feel considered, I guess, good for them, but let's not pretend there's any other intention to it.

And the watch thing is more semantics. It's just something to project more anger about. I don't care if Biden looked at his watch or if Trump had checked to make sure his tie was down to his knees. Those things don't matter to real voters. That's grievance politics and it's meant to stoke anger for disingenuous reasons, but you also already know that. 

Gern Blansten

It's the same as the Benghazi bs...we were under attack and the opposite party lights themselves on fire to gain a political advantage. This pattern is part of the problem right now. 

Tim Simmons

teskeinc said:

It shows how brainwashed this forum is when Zuckerberg just admitted that the Biden/Harris administration coerced Facebook to censor things not favorable to them. And no one can even step up and say what they did was totally wrong.You were lied to, you think that was the only app or medium? Wake up!


Regardless of your political affiliation there are some things that shouldn’t be defended. 

Facebook still had a choice and they went ahead with what the Admin asked. They did put pressure on Meta. They probably shouldn't have. But also, I get why. There was abject unseriousness in 2020 when dealing with Covid from the previous admin and they were trying to get on a better footing. Wanting to clear out misinformation and jokes that could be misconstrued, they asked Meta to help. Meta agreed and now they regrets is. Thats fine, as is their prerogative, but it is seemingly nowhere near as nefarious as you are projecting it to be. 

“When confronted with a deadly pandemic, this Administration encouraged responsible actions to protect public health and safety,” the statement said. “Our position has been clear and consistent: we believe tech companies and other private actors should take into account the effects their actions have on the American people, while making independent choices about the information they present.”

But heres the issue, its complicated. Every single fucking issue is complicated. You can look at it as black and white and you seeming do, post after post here. Its all grey and nuanced. And everyone has their justifications. Very few things are truly disqualifying. But you roll in here time and time again with takes that omit context or not the whole story, or playing loose and free with the details or the ABSOLUTE certainty that you and your POV are correct. And its tiring. Everything is grey man.

teskeinc

tbergs said:

teskeinc said:

Gern Blansten said:

tbergs said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

teskeinc said:

3 year anniversary of the botched Afghanistan withdrawal yesterday. Families of the 13 killed at Abbey Gate stated neither Kamala Harris or Joe Biden never contacted them offering condolences. Thank you Kamala for being the last one in the room!

At least Joe offered condolences to the guy in Kabul he blew up loading water bottles in his trunk. 

How sick are Biden and Harris?

President Biden’s choices for how to execute a withdrawal from Afghanistan were severely constrained by conditions created by his predecessor. When President Trump took office in 2017, there were more than 10,000 troops in Afghanistan. Eighteen months later, after introducing more than 3,000 additional troops just to maintain the stalemate, President Trump ordered direct talks with the Taliban without consulting with our allies and partners or allowing the Afghan government at the negotiating table. In September 2019, President Trump embolded the Taliban by publicly considering inviting them to Camp David on the anniversary of 9/11. In February 2020, the United States and the Taliban reached a deal, known as the Doha Agreement, under which the United States agreed to withdraw all U.S. forces from Afghanistan by May 2021. In return, the Taliban agreed to participate in a peace process and refrain from attacking U.S. troops and threatening Afghanistan’s major cities—but only as long as the United States remained committed to withdraw by the agreement’s deadline. As part of the deal, President Trump also pressured the Afghan government to release 5,000 Taliban fighters from prison, including senior war commanders, without securing the release of the only American hostage known to be held by the Taliban.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/US-Withdrawal-from-Afghanistan.pdf

I mean, this is basically propaganda from the WH to paint themselves as good as possible. Not that some of it doesn't have merit, but it also has a purpose, downplay mistakes and ramp up failures of others. I don't think I would choose this topic as a defense for Biden or Harris. Yes, they did get the US out, but the execution was flawed. Most of us who aren't in a cult recognize the challenges created by Trump, the rest only care about semantics.

how so? One suicide bomber was the issue. Preventable? Maybe...but anyone willing to commit suicide is going to be hard to stop.

That's the extent of the deaths right? Would that have occurred at some point regardless of the withdrawal? How many people would have been dead by now if we hadn't withdrawn?

Does that excuse Biden/Harris never contacting the families of those who died at Abbey Gate? Or looking bored and checking his watch as caskets rolled off the plane?

This is just nonsense. Biden met with families privately within a few weeks. Has he called them since? Maybe not, but you know the only reason Trump is now doing it is for political reasons and points with the military families. If being used as political ploys makes them feel considered, I guess, good for them, but let's not pretend there's any other intention to it.

And the watch thing is more semantics. It's just something to project more anger about. I don't care if Biden looked at his watch or if Trump had checked to make sure his tie was down to his knees. Those things don't matter to real voters. That's grievance politics and it's meant to stoke anger for disingenuous reasons, but you also already know that. 

I watched an interview yesterday on FOX with a mother of a soldier that stated otherwise. The CNN anchor was in disbelief. Keep defending and spreading lies tho.

https://www.foxnews.com/video/6348404020112

tbergs

teskeinc said:

tbergs said:

teskeinc said:

Gern Blansten said:

tbergs said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

teskeinc said:

3 year anniversary of the botched Afghanistan withdrawal yesterday. Families of the 13 killed at Abbey Gate stated neither Kamala Harris or Joe Biden never contacted them offering condolences. Thank you Kamala for being the last one in the room!

At least Joe offered condolences to the guy in Kabul he blew up loading water bottles in his trunk. 

How sick are Biden and Harris?

President Biden’s choices for how to execute a withdrawal from Afghanistan were severely constrained by conditions created by his predecessor. When President Trump took office in 2017, there were more than 10,000 troops in Afghanistan. Eighteen months later, after introducing more than 3,000 additional troops just to maintain the stalemate, President Trump ordered direct talks with the Taliban without consulting with our allies and partners or allowing the Afghan government at the negotiating table. In September 2019, President Trump embolded the Taliban by publicly considering inviting them to Camp David on the anniversary of 9/11. In February 2020, the United States and the Taliban reached a deal, known as the Doha Agreement, under which the United States agreed to withdraw all U.S. forces from Afghanistan by May 2021. In return, the Taliban agreed to participate in a peace process and refrain from attacking U.S. troops and threatening Afghanistan’s major cities—but only as long as the United States remained committed to withdraw by the agreement’s deadline. As part of the deal, President Trump also pressured the Afghan government to release 5,000 Taliban fighters from prison, including senior war commanders, without securing the release of the only American hostage known to be held by the Taliban.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/US-Withdrawal-from-Afghanistan.pdf

I mean, this is basically propaganda from the WH to paint themselves as good as possible. Not that some of it doesn't have merit, but it also has a purpose, downplay mistakes and ramp up failures of others. I don't think I would choose this topic as a defense for Biden or Harris. Yes, they did get the US out, but the execution was flawed. Most of us who aren't in a cult recognize the challenges created by Trump, the rest only care about semantics.

how so? One suicide bomber was the issue. Preventable? Maybe...but anyone willing to commit suicide is going to be hard to stop.

That's the extent of the deaths right? Would that have occurred at some point regardless of the withdrawal? How many people would have been dead by now if we hadn't withdrawn?

Does that excuse Biden/Harris never contacting the families of those who died at Abbey Gate? Or looking bored and checking his watch as caskets rolled off the plane?

This is just nonsense. Biden met with families privately within a few weeks. Has he called them since? Maybe not, but you know the only reason Trump is now doing it is for political reasons and points with the military families. If being used as political ploys makes them feel considered, I guess, good for them, but let's not pretend there's any other intention to it.

And the watch thing is more semantics. It's just something to project more anger about. I don't care if Biden looked at his watch or if Trump had checked to make sure his tie was down to his knees. Those things don't matter to real voters. That's grievance politics and it's meant to stoke anger for disingenuous reasons, but you also already know that. 

I watched an interview yesterday on FOX with a mother of a soldier that stated otherwise. The CNN anchor was in disbelief. Keep defending and spreading lies tho.

https://www.foxnews.com/video/6348404020112

Stated otherwise to what? Meeting with families, we'll, he did. You can find that information on your own pretty easily.

Defending and spreading lies? Haha! Ok, all you do is share half truths and slanted takes on issues so I guess not "lies". 

teskeinc

tbergs said:

teskeinc said:

tbergs said:

teskeinc said:

Gern Blansten said:

tbergs said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

teskeinc said:

3 year anniversary of the botched Afghanistan withdrawal yesterday. Families of the 13 killed at Abbey Gate stated neither Kamala Harris or Joe Biden never contacted them offering condolences. Thank you Kamala for being the last one in the room!

At least Joe offered condolences to the guy in Kabul he blew up loading water bottles in his trunk. 

How sick are Biden and Harris?

President Biden’s choices for how to execute a withdrawal from Afghanistan were severely constrained by conditions created by his predecessor. When President Trump took office in 2017, there were more than 10,000 troops in Afghanistan. Eighteen months later, after introducing more than 3,000 additional troops just to maintain the stalemate, President Trump ordered direct talks with the Taliban without consulting with our allies and partners or allowing the Afghan government at the negotiating table. In September 2019, President Trump embolded the Taliban by publicly considering inviting them to Camp David on the anniversary of 9/11. In February 2020, the United States and the Taliban reached a deal, known as the Doha Agreement, under which the United States agreed to withdraw all U.S. forces from Afghanistan by May 2021. In return, the Taliban agreed to participate in a peace process and refrain from attacking U.S. troops and threatening Afghanistan’s major cities—but only as long as the United States remained committed to withdraw by the agreement’s deadline. As part of the deal, President Trump also pressured the Afghan government to release 5,000 Taliban fighters from prison, including senior war commanders, without securing the release of the only American hostage known to be held by the Taliban.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/US-Withdrawal-from-Afghanistan.pdf

I mean, this is basically propaganda from the WH to paint themselves as good as possible. Not that some of it doesn't have merit, but it also has a purpose, downplay mistakes and ramp up failures of others. I don't think I would choose this topic as a defense for Biden or Harris. Yes, they did get the US out, but the execution was flawed. Most of us who aren't in a cult recognize the challenges created by Trump, the rest only care about semantics.

how so? One suicide bomber was the issue. Preventable? Maybe...but anyone willing to commit suicide is going to be hard to stop.

That's the extent of the deaths right? Would that have occurred at some point regardless of the withdrawal? How many people would have been dead by now if we hadn't withdrawn?

Does that excuse Biden/Harris never contacting the families of those who died at Abbey Gate? Or looking bored and checking his watch as caskets rolled off the plane?

This is just nonsense. Biden met with families privately within a few weeks. Has he called them since? Maybe not, but you know the only reason Trump is now doing it is for political reasons and points with the military families. If being used as political ploys makes them feel considered, I guess, good for them, but let's not pretend there's any other intention to it.

And the watch thing is more semantics. It's just something to project more anger about. I don't care if Biden looked at his watch or if Trump had checked to make sure his tie was down to his knees. Those things don't matter to real voters. That's grievance politics and it's meant to stoke anger for disingenuous reasons, but you also already know that. 

I watched an interview yesterday on FOX with a mother of a soldier that stated otherwise. The CNN anchor was in disbelief. Keep defending and spreading lies tho.

https://www.foxnews.com/video/6348404020112

Stated otherwise to what?

She literally just said on a CNN interview that Biden never reached out to her. You stated that Biden met with families within a few weeks. Was that your opinion or are you calling the mother of a dead soldier a liar?

tbergs

teskeinc said:

tbergs said:

teskeinc said:

tbergs said:

teskeinc said:

Gern Blansten said:

tbergs said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

teskeinc said:

3 year anniversary of the botched Afghanistan withdrawal yesterday. Families of the 13 killed at Abbey Gate stated neither Kamala Harris or Joe Biden never contacted them offering condolences. Thank you Kamala for being the last one in the room!

At least Joe offered condolences to the guy in Kabul he blew up loading water bottles in his trunk. 

How sick are Biden and Harris?

President Biden’s choices for how to execute a withdrawal from Afghanistan were severely constrained by conditions created by his predecessor. When President Trump took office in 2017, there were more than 10,000 troops in Afghanistan. Eighteen months later, after introducing more than 3,000 additional troops just to maintain the stalemate, President Trump ordered direct talks with the Taliban without consulting with our allies and partners or allowing the Afghan government at the negotiating table. In September 2019, President Trump embolded the Taliban by publicly considering inviting them to Camp David on the anniversary of 9/11. In February 2020, the United States and the Taliban reached a deal, known as the Doha Agreement, under which the United States agreed to withdraw all U.S. forces from Afghanistan by May 2021. In return, the Taliban agreed to participate in a peace process and refrain from attacking U.S. troops and threatening Afghanistan’s major cities—but only as long as the United States remained committed to withdraw by the agreement’s deadline. As part of the deal, President Trump also pressured the Afghan government to release 5,000 Taliban fighters from prison, including senior war commanders, without securing the release of the only American hostage known to be held by the Taliban.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/US-Withdrawal-from-Afghanistan.pdf

I mean, this is basically propaganda from the WH to paint themselves as good as possible. Not that some of it doesn't have merit, but it also has a purpose, downplay mistakes and ramp up failures of others. I don't think I would choose this topic as a defense for Biden or Harris. Yes, they did get the US out, but the execution was flawed. Most of us who aren't in a cult recognize the challenges created by Trump, the rest only care about semantics.

how so? One suicide bomber was the issue. Preventable? Maybe...but anyone willing to commit suicide is going to be hard to stop.

That's the extent of the deaths right? Would that have occurred at some point regardless of the withdrawal? How many people would have been dead by now if we hadn't withdrawn?

Does that excuse Biden/Harris never contacting the families of those who died at Abbey Gate? Or looking bored and checking his watch as caskets rolled off the plane?

This is just nonsense. Biden met with families privately within a few weeks. Has he called them since? Maybe not, but you know the only reason Trump is now doing it is for political reasons and points with the military families. If being used as political ploys makes them feel considered, I guess, good for them, but let's not pretend there's any other intention to it.

And the watch thing is more semantics. It's just something to project more anger about. I don't care if Biden looked at his watch or if Trump had checked to make sure his tie was down to his knees. Those things don't matter to real voters. That's grievance politics and it's meant to stoke anger for disingenuous reasons, but you also already know that. 

I watched an interview yesterday on FOX with a mother of a soldier that stated otherwise. The CNN anchor was in disbelief. Keep defending and spreading lies tho.

https://www.foxnews.com/video/6348404020112

Stated otherwise to what?

She literally just said on a CNN interview that Biden never reached out to her. You stated that Biden met with families within a few weeks. Was that your opinion or are you calling the mother of a dead soldier a liar?

Look at you twist words and find that black and white again. As I mentioned, reached out, maybe not, but he did meet with the families, that's fact. Whether she was present isn't made clear in that snippet. Also, she seems to be the mother-in-law. Not that she isn't family, but calling her the mother is once again, disingenuous. 

Halifax2TheMax

Why would anyone want to meet with the family members of “suckers and losers?”

Gern Blansten

Halifax2TheMax said:

Why would anyone want to meet with the family members of “suckers and losers?”

yep...if they don't have the Presidential Medal of Freedom they aren't worth meeting with

The Juggler

Halifax2TheMax said:

Why would anyone want to meet with the family members of “suckers and losers?”

It is acceptable if it is for a very public photo op.