Why aren't "Got To Give" lyrics included?

kmcmanus

Comes Than Goes is about CC (and some bitterness towards VC). Brother the Cloud is about his actual brother Chris Mueller. But beyond that I think people are reading into things that probably aren’t there. I actually think that Scared of Fear is a political song, the “hurtling yourself just to hurt me” referring to someone who votes against their own economic interests to “own the libs” for example. “Have I lost my friend” could be about a loved one going down a Qanon rabbit hole, or who you don’t speak to anymore after an argument, or who died of Covid after refusing masking/vaccine.
Dark Matter is an album thematically about personal connections, how we keep them and how we lose them. It deals heavily with topics of mortality. So people are seeing a person with whom connection was lost who died in those lyrics. But that could also be true of Layne or Lanegan, Andy or Kurt. What is death if not the ultimate lost connection? But I don’t think anything on this album is specifically about CC, the album is about the ways we lose people and he’s one of the many people they’ve lost.

lastexitlondon

Remember ed lost his brother Chris also
 Which will be very difficult to handle for him 

BF25394

kmcmanus said:

Comes Than Goes is about CC (and some bitterness towards VC). Brother the Cloud is about his actual brother Chris Mueller. But beyond that I think people are reading into things that probably aren’t there. I actually think that Scared of Fear is a political song, the “hurtling yourself just to hurt me” referring to someone who votes against their own economic interests to “own the libs” for example. “Have I lost my friend” could be about a loved one going down a Qanon rabbit hole, or who you don’t speak to anymore after an argument, or who died of Covid after refusing masking/vaccine.
Dark Matter is an album thematically about personal connections, how we keep them and how we lose them. It deals heavily with topics of mortality. So people are seeing a person with whom connection was lost who died in those lyrics. But that could also be true of Layne or Lanegan, Andy or Kurt. What is death if not the ultimate lost connection? But I don’t think anything on this album is specifically about CC, the album is about the ways we lose people and he’s one of the many people they’ve lost.

How do we know that "Comes Then Goes" is about Chris Cornell? I understand contextually how it can be read that way, but has Ed ever said anything about it publicly?

kmcmanus

BF25394 said:

kmcmanus said:

Comes Than Goes is about CC (and some bitterness towards VC). Brother the Cloud is about his actual brother Chris Mueller. But beyond that I think people are reading into things that probably aren’t there. I actually think that Scared of Fear is a political song, the “hurtling yourself just to hurt me” referring to someone who votes against their own economic interests to “own the libs” for example. “Have I lost my friend” could be about a loved one going down a Qanon rabbit hole, or who you don’t speak to anymore after an argument, or who died of Covid after refusing masking/vaccine.
Dark Matter is an album thematically about personal connections, how we keep them and how we lose them. It deals heavily with topics of mortality. So people are seeing a person with whom connection was lost who died in those lyrics. But that could also be true of Layne or Lanegan, Andy or Kurt. What is death if not the ultimate lost connection? But I don’t think anything on this album is specifically about CC, the album is about the ways we lose people and he’s one of the many people they’ve lost.

How do we know that "Comes Then Goes" is about Chris Cornell? I understand contextually how it can be read that way, but has Ed ever said anything about it publicly?

Touché. Comes Then Goes is widely speculated to be about him, and is the only song getting such speculation that I think actually IS about him. 

*opinions expressed herein do not represent the band whom I’ve never met. Use opinions as directed. Keep away from children.*

Spiritual_Chaos

People in the jamily hiveminding together truths about what songs are about is disturbing

Lifted

BF25394 said:

kmcmanus said:

Comes Than Goes is about CC (and some bitterness towards VC). Brother the Cloud is about his actual brother Chris Mueller. But beyond that I think people are reading into things that probably aren’t there. I actually think that Scared of Fear is a political song, the “hurtling yourself just to hurt me” referring to someone who votes against their own economic interests to “own the libs” for example. “Have I lost my friend” could be about a loved one going down a Qanon rabbit hole, or who you don’t speak to anymore after an argument, or who died of Covid after refusing masking/vaccine.
Dark Matter is an album thematically about personal connections, how we keep them and how we lose them. It deals heavily with topics of mortality. So people are seeing a person with whom connection was lost who died in those lyrics. But that could also be true of Layne or Lanegan, Andy or Kurt. What is death if not the ultimate lost connection? But I don’t think anything on this album is specifically about CC, the album is about the ways we lose people and he’s one of the many people they’ve lost.

How do we know that "Comes Then Goes" is about Chris Cornell? I understand contextually how it can be read that way, but has Ed ever said anything about it publicly?

No. And it drives me nuts reading people's post on here who constantly state that this song and that song is about Chris Cornell as if it's a fact. If every song that people suggest was witten about Chris Cornell was in fact about Chris Cornell, it would actually be kind of weird.

It's possible that 'comes then goes' is about Chris Cornell, but it's pure speculation either way.

BF25394

kmcmanus said:

Use opinions as directed.

There's no use as directed. (There's no book on this life.)

pjl44

Spiritual_Chaos said:

People in the jamily hiveminding together truths about what songs are about is disturbing

Isn't reading song lyrics and having theories about what they mean one of the most common things music fans do?

quartered

Not to mention that it's certainly about Chris Cornell! Without doubt 100% Ed came to my house last night and told me personally.

Seriously, it's like Ed saying Immortality isn't about Kurt. Of course it is (it's also about Ed, so maybe that's how he justifies his misdirection). There are no other theories that makes sense. The trick is reading lyrics, not reading into lyrics (I'm sure some of you will have a field day with that point). They can all be applied to anything you want, they can all be interpreted in light of anything you want, but past history and Occam's razor would suggest that most Ed songs are about Ed's life or something he has personally experienced - and when there are corroborating facts out there in the world, then it only makes the case stronger.

Think about yourself - would you feel more emotionally connected to (and thus want to write and sing about) experiences of your own life and your own observations or about the experiences and observations of abstract characters - and which do you think would be more convincing to a listener? I'm not saying that abstract characters don't exist in song, literature, etc. - of course they do - or that when applied they aren't ever convincing - of course they are - but I would argue that most Ed songs are pretty specific, even if certain aspects of some have overlapping character or situational interpretations. For example, I wouldn't claim to know where something like Given to Fly comes from - maybe just some interesting way of playing on a biblical story - but I'd put money on where songs like Rearviewmirror and Footsteps come from. If you can't get that Comes then Goes is about Cornell, then why bother with this discussion at all? Everything is about everything, all is relative, blah blah blah boring...

BF25394

quartered said:

Not to mention that it's certainly about Chris Cornell! Without doubt 100% Ed came to my house last night and told me personally.

Seriously, it's like Ed saying Immortality isn't about Kurt. Of course it is (it's also about Ed, so maybe that's how he justifies his misdirection). There are no other theories that makes sense. The trick is reading lyrics, not reading into lyrics (I'm sure some of you will have a field day with that point). They can all be applied to anything you want, they can all be interpreted in light of anything you want, but past history and Occam's razor would suggest that most Ed songs are about Ed's life or something he has personally experienced - and when there are corroborating facts out there in the world, then it only makes the case stronger.

Think about yourself - would you feel more emotionally connected to (and thus want to write and sing about) experiences of your own life and your own observations or about the experiences and observations of abstract characters - and which do you think would be more convincing to a listener? I'm not saying that abstract characters don't exist in song, literature, etc. - of course they do - or that when applied they aren't ever convincing - of course they are - but I would argue that most Ed songs are pretty specific, even if certain aspects of some have overlapping character or situational interpretations. For example, I wouldn't claim to know where something like Given to Fly comes from - maybe just some interesting way of playing on a biblical story - but I'd put money on where songs like Rearviewmirror and Footsteps come from. If you can't get that Comes then Goes is about Cornell, then why bother with this discussion at all? Everything is about everything, all is relative, blah blah blah boring...

Go watch Bruce Springsteen's Broadway show where he addresses this subject and then get back to me.

BF25394

pjl44 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

People in the jamily hiveminding together truths about what songs are about is disturbing

Isn't reading song lyrics and having theories about what they mean one of the most common things music fans do?

Sure-- I think the thing people are reacting to is the certainty that some posters have about the subject matter of certain songs, and also the unseemliness of people asserting things about the nature of Ed's relationship with his wife and problems therein based on their reading of lyrics.

quartered

BF25394 said:

quartered said:

Not to mention that it's certainly about Chris Cornell! Without doubt 100% Ed came to my house last night and told me personally.

Seriously, it's like Ed saying Immortality isn't about Kurt. Of course it is (it's also about Ed, so maybe that's how he justifies his misdirection). There are no other theories that makes sense. The trick is reading lyrics, not reading into lyrics (I'm sure some of you will have a field day with that point). They can all be applied to anything you want, they can all be interpreted in light of anything you want, but past history and Occam's razor would suggest that most Ed songs are about Ed's life or something he has personally experienced - and when there are corroborating facts out there in the world, then it only makes the case stronger.

Think about yourself - would you feel more emotionally connected to (and thus want to write and sing about) experiences of your own life and your own observations or about the experiences and observations of abstract characters - and which do you think would be more convincing to a listener? I'm not saying that abstract characters don't exist in song, literature, etc. - of course they do - or that when applied they aren't ever convincing - of course they are - but I would argue that most Ed songs are pretty specific, even if certain aspects of some have overlapping character or situational interpretations. For example, I wouldn't claim to know where something like Given to Fly comes from - maybe just some interesting way of playing on a biblical story - but I'd put money on where songs like Rearviewmirror and Footsteps come from. If you can't get that Comes then Goes is about Cornell, then why bother with this discussion at all? Everything is about everything, all is relative, blah blah blah boring...

Go watch Bruce Springsteen's Broadway show where he addresses this subject and then get back to me.

Snooze

Spunkie

BF25394 said:

quartered said:

Are all of you morons?

It's about he and his wife, which he also references at the end of Upper Hand (goes from 'just need a few of you' - i.e., his wife and two daughters to 'maybe just the two of you' - only his two daughters) and Setting Sun (which is all about he and his wife). He doesn't want to be too overt about what he's alluding to in Got to Give (although Setting Sun is pretty direct, so not sure about that), but it's clear (although I guess you could argue it could be about any of his past relationships, but seems unlikely) there are four (well five - the daughters are kind of rolled up in one) main characters in the album - Chris Cornell, Trump, Ed's wife, Ed's daughters, then one for Jeff's wife (Won't Tell), and the whole Seattle scene remnants (Wreckage).

You're projecting a lot onto all of these songs. "Won't Tell" is about a dream that Jeff had about Joni Mitchell and Neil Young, not Jeff's wife. And sometimes, as in "Waiting for Stevie," Ed just invents characters and stories. Don't assume that these songs are autobiographical, other than "Something Special," which Ed has talked about. I don't hear "Wreckage" as being about Seattle; I hear it as being about America in a divided time, trying to figure a way out of the morass we've been in since Trump came down the escalator nine years ago and took our public discourse and politics to new lows.

Do you believe U2s vertigo video, too?

Spunkie

quartered said:

Lifted said:

quartered said:

Are all of you morons?

It's about he and his wife, which he also references at the end of Upper Hand (goes from 'just need a few of you' - i.e., his wife and two daughters to 'maybe just the two of you' - only his two daughters) and Setting Sun (which is all about he and his wife). He doesn't want to be too overt about what he's alluding to in Got to Give (although Setting Sun is pretty direct, so not sure about that), but it's clear (although I guess you could argue it could be about any of his past relationships, but seems unlikely) there are four (well five - the daughters are kind of rolled up in one) main characters in the album - Chris Cornell, Trump, Ed's wife, Ed's daughters, then one for Jeff's wife (Won't Tell), and the whole Seattle scene remnants (Wreckage).

Jeeze...calling people morons for, who knows what, and then pretty much creating your own narrative for someone else's art and stating it as fact.

I will not speculate on what these songs mean to Ed, but I will say that the words are beautifully written throughout the album and touch on universal themes that virtually any adult could relate to. Lyrically, i think this album is right there with No Code for the strongest in the PJ catalog. People were calling this a divorce album when it came out, which I didn't really get....and 50+ SPINS (pun intended) later, I still don't.

Lastly, why do so many people on this board want so desperately to believe that every song is about Chris Cornell? More than likely, none of these songs are about him. 

All I wanted was to call someone a Moron - and then I went looking for a reason. Can't you do that anymore? WHY SO SENSITIVE?

Also, seriously, Comes then Goes is CLEARLY about Cornell, so is Scared of Fear. It doesn't mean that when you write, you're not associating other characters into your storyline or into a character, but who else did Ed have a scene with (Scared of Fear) but Cornell? He was his friend. His friend left him and Seattle (did Ed go to Chris's funeral? No. Why not?), I guess I missed part of the Won't Tell story, but the simplest explanation is usually right, and Ed's lyrics have overwhelmingly been personal (either about his perspective or of someone who he's been in contact with in some way - most often the former). All I'll say about the divorce comment is - hmm, what happened next?

I'm definitely getting banned now. 

"She fell off the altar
 a vision
you caught her again
 a wood cut in red."

How is that CC? His wife adulteress? Sliced wrists? 
My contextualizations make more sense than suppositions?

lastexitlondon

IF it's about cc that part is maybe about his nasty wife

BF25394

Spunkie said:

BF25394 said:

quartered said:

Are all of you morons?

It's about he and his wife, which he also references at the end of Upper Hand (goes from 'just need a few of you' - i.e., his wife and two daughters to 'maybe just the two of you' - only his two daughters) and Setting Sun (which is all about he and his wife). He doesn't want to be too overt about what he's alluding to in Got to Give (although Setting Sun is pretty direct, so not sure about that), but it's clear (although I guess you could argue it could be about any of his past relationships, but seems unlikely) there are four (well five - the daughters are kind of rolled up in one) main characters in the album - Chris Cornell, Trump, Ed's wife, Ed's daughters, then one for Jeff's wife (Won't Tell), and the whole Seattle scene remnants (Wreckage).

You're projecting a lot onto all of these songs. "Won't Tell" is about a dream that Jeff had about Joni Mitchell and Neil Young, not Jeff's wife. And sometimes, as in "Waiting for Stevie," Ed just invents characters and stories. Don't assume that these songs are autobiographical, other than "Something Special," which Ed has talked about. I don't hear "Wreckage" as being about Seattle; I hear it as being about America in a divided time, trying to figure a way out of the morass we've been in since Trump came down the escalator nine years ago and took our public discourse and politics to new lows.

Do you believe U2s vertigo video, too?

Refresh my memory. Isn't that the one where they're in silhouette? What about the video are you referencing?

bazfromoz

Some of you people need to chill out. Who cares who the songs are about. Just enjoy them. 

Spunkie

BF25394 said:

Spunkie said:

BF25394 said:

quartered said:

Are all of you morons?

It's about he and his wife, which he also references at the end of Upper Hand (goes from 'just need a few of you' - i.e., his wife and two daughters to 'maybe just the two of you' - only his two daughters) and Setting Sun (which is all about he and his wife). He doesn't want to be too overt about what he's alluding to in Got to Give (although Setting Sun is pretty direct, so not sure about that), but it's clear (although I guess you could argue it could be about any of his past relationships, but seems unlikely) there are four (well five - the daughters are kind of rolled up in one) main characters in the album - Chris Cornell, Trump, Ed's wife, Ed's daughters, then one for Jeff's wife (Won't Tell), and the whole Seattle scene remnants (Wreckage).

You're projecting a lot onto all of these songs. "Won't Tell" is about a dream that Jeff had about Joni Mitchell and Neil Young, not Jeff's wife. And sometimes, as in "Waiting for Stevie," Ed just invents characters and stories. Don't assume that these songs are autobiographical, other than "Something Special," which Ed has talked about. I don't hear "Wreckage" as being about Seattle; I hear it as being about America in a divided time, trying to figure a way out of the morass we've been in since Trump came down the escalator nine years ago and took our public discourse and politics to new lows.

Do you believe U2s vertigo video, too?

Refresh my memory. Isn't that the one where they're in silhouette? What about the video are you referencing?

The make up a bunch of stories about where the song supposedly came from.

BF25394

Spunkie said:

BF25394 said:

Spunkie said:

BF25394 said:

quartered said:

Are all of you morons?

It's about he and his wife, which he also references at the end of Upper Hand (goes from 'just need a few of you' - i.e., his wife and two daughters to 'maybe just the two of you' - only his two daughters) and Setting Sun (which is all about he and his wife). He doesn't want to be too overt about what he's alluding to in Got to Give (although Setting Sun is pretty direct, so not sure about that), but it's clear (although I guess you could argue it could be about any of his past relationships, but seems unlikely) there are four (well five - the daughters are kind of rolled up in one) main characters in the album - Chris Cornell, Trump, Ed's wife, Ed's daughters, then one for Jeff's wife (Won't Tell), and the whole Seattle scene remnants (Wreckage).

You're projecting a lot onto all of these songs. "Won't Tell" is about a dream that Jeff had about Joni Mitchell and Neil Young, not Jeff's wife. And sometimes, as in "Waiting for Stevie," Ed just invents characters and stories. Don't assume that these songs are autobiographical, other than "Something Special," which Ed has talked about. I don't hear "Wreckage" as being about Seattle; I hear it as being about America in a divided time, trying to figure a way out of the morass we've been in since Trump came down the escalator nine years ago and took our public discourse and politics to new lows.

Do you believe U2s vertigo video, too?

Refresh my memory. Isn't that the one where they're in silhouette? What about the video are you referencing?

The make up a bunch of stories about where the song supposedly came from.

Well, everyone should have been warned that they were dealing with an unreliable narrator when Bono skipped cuatro through trece when counting off at the start of the song.

quartered

Major snoozefest! 

Spunkie is likely 12-years-old and it's not clear to me that BF25394 knows how language works, so...

However, lastexitlondon has made a real leap - the one that Ed wishes had not led the character in Comes then Goes is none other than Vicky Cornell! This is not rocket science. I apologize, so sorry, about the sarcasm...