Running is out !

Spiritual_Chaos

BF25394 said:

CROJAM95 said:

Force Of Nature said:

CROJAM95 said:

Watt has Charisma.....sounds like thats his IN with big acts...I too wasnt happy about the heavier songs on Earthling, tried to relisten last night......Power of Right/ Good & evil, like the songs but sound is Harsh

Can you explain by what you mean by harsh?

I guess I'm naive to a lot of the production chat but for me they are angry heavy songs so I'd expect a harsh sound

Muddled, no room to breathe, confined, abrasive

vs/vitalogy have heavy songs, they sound BALANCED....I guess where he has the guitars in the mix isnt appealing to my ears 

But those albums don't sound alike at all. Vitalogy has a very low-fi sound. Vs. is very crisp. And both are departures from Ten, which is slick and overproduced.

I would not say Ten is overproduced. It's produced, with a clear sonic identity. But that production makes that album into what it is and the songs gel. And helped it be a hit for sure.

Don't see why it would be overproduced.

Rsolebello

I will say this: I feel like there is a huge issue with how these songs are playing from Apple Music. I can’t speak for the other streaming sites, but if you don’t have the appropriate speakers/settings the song sounds COMPLETELY different than intended. Eddie is impossible to hear and buried way too deep in the mix. 

I share this because some may not realize they’re facing the same issue with audio quality. Especially if you’re listening from your phone or something. Try to listen to the version from YouTube and see if it sounds any different for you.  

Force Of Nature

Given that production seems to be such an issue to some people, I am glad Im naive to it all and it doesnt really bother me.  If i like the sound of a song, lyrics, vocal delivery then great. Whether something is slightly higher or lower in the mix doesnt matter to me.  I listen to more live stuff of Pearl Jam than studio anyway so its less about production and more whether I actually like the song

Spiritual_Chaos

BloodMeridian80 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Compared to how Riot Act breathes. Like it was recorded live, in a room and not created layer by later by a producer on a computer. And also not crammed up like a wall hitting you.

My understanding based on the interviews is that this (the album, Dark Matter) was largely recorded as a band in a room, live. 

Yes. I got that impression from Stone. But to me it doesn't feel like it. But that impression could be all just in my singular mind. I think it has to do with the crammed and wall-y sonics.

kmcmanus

I don’t love the production but I can live with it. But that’s the trade off: the band has said how Watt inspired them during the writing, but he also has a polarizing mixing style. I think most of us are partial to BoB’s mixes but he’s also the one who thought a full band version of Sleeping By Myself was necessary. 

So would you rather have a producer who coaxes better material but records it worse or vice versa? I’ve loved good songs with bad production. I’ve never seen good production save a bad song.

kmcmanus

Spiritual_Chaos said:

BF25394 said:

CROJAM95 said:

Force Of Nature said:

CROJAM95 said:

Watt has Charisma.....sounds like thats his IN with big acts...I too wasnt happy about the heavier songs on Earthling, tried to relisten last night......Power of Right/ Good & evil, like the songs but sound is Harsh

Can you explain by what you mean by harsh?

I guess I'm naive to a lot of the production chat but for me they are angry heavy songs so I'd expect a harsh sound

Muddled, no room to breathe, confined, abrasive

vs/vitalogy have heavy songs, they sound BALANCED....I guess where he has the guitars in the mix isnt appealing to my ears 

But those albums don't sound alike at all. Vitalogy has a very low-fi sound. Vs. is very crisp. And both are departures from Ten, which is slick and overproduced.

I would not say Ten is overproduced. It's produced, with a clear sonic identity. But that production makes that album into what it is and the songs gel. And helped it be a hit for sure.

Don't see why it would be overproduced.

The band HAS said it’s overproduced. And then had BoB remix it, proving that they do indeed think so.

BF25394

Spiritual_Chaos said:

BF25394 said:

CROJAM95 said:

Force Of Nature said:

CROJAM95 said:

Watt has Charisma.....sounds like thats his IN with big acts...I too wasnt happy about the heavier songs on Earthling, tried to relisten last night......Power of Right/ Good & evil, like the songs but sound is Harsh

Can you explain by what you mean by harsh?

I guess I'm naive to a lot of the production chat but for me they are angry heavy songs so I'd expect a harsh sound

Muddled, no room to breathe, confined, abrasive

vs/vitalogy have heavy songs, they sound BALANCED....I guess where he has the guitars in the mix isnt appealing to my ears 

But those albums don't sound alike at all. Vitalogy has a very low-fi sound. Vs. is very crisp. And both are departures from Ten, which is slick and overproduced.

I would not say Ten is overproduced. It's produced, with a clear sonic identity. But that production makes that album into what it is and the songs gel. And helped it be a hit for sure.

Don't see why it would be overproduced.

The band is on the record about it being overproduced. It's slathered in reverb, for one thing. They had Brendan O'Brien remix and remaster it for the box set because they thought it needed it.

EDIT: The always-wise kmcmanus beat me to this observation.

Spiritual_Chaos

kmcmanus said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

BF25394 said:

CROJAM95 said:

Force Of Nature said:

CROJAM95 said:

Watt has Charisma.....sounds like thats his IN with big acts...I too wasnt happy about the heavier songs on Earthling, tried to relisten last night......Power of Right/ Good & evil, like the songs but sound is Harsh

Can you explain by what you mean by harsh?

I guess I'm naive to a lot of the production chat but for me they are angry heavy songs so I'd expect a harsh sound

Muddled, no room to breathe, confined, abrasive

vs/vitalogy have heavy songs, they sound BALANCED....I guess where he has the guitars in the mix isnt appealing to my ears 

But those albums don't sound alike at all. Vitalogy has a very low-fi sound. Vs. is very crisp. And both are departures from Ten, which is slick and overproduced.

I would not say Ten is overproduced. It's produced, with a clear sonic identity. But that production makes that album into what it is and the songs gel. And helped it be a hit for sure.

Don't see why it would be overproduced.

The band HAS said it’s overproduced. And then had BoB remix it, proving that they do indeed think so.

I don't care what they indeed think. Just like I don't care about George Lucas thinking CGI-effects all over 1977s Star Wars is correct. Whatever he HAS said.

Also, another thing - I think the band should have stood by the album and not tinker with it 20 years later and have another producer, BoB, remix it. Respect the producer and the piece of art that was made in a time and should be respected as part of it's time. 

spankyMP

Force Of Nature said:

GetRight13 said:

Force Of Nature said:

For those struggling with the production:
dumb it down for me, what is it you dont like? Is it stuff like Eds voice not loud enough, drums not clear etc?

Does that take away from the song for you?
How do you feel at live shows where venues can affect the quality of sound?

the whole thing sounds like a wall of sound with a wrapper of overproduction on top of it muffling the actual song, if that makes sense.  For me I think its mostly how the drums are mixed.    It doesnt take away from the song for me though.  I really like these songs and think they will be awesome live.  Really loveeee the drumming on this album so far!  

Not sure it does make sense.
"wall of sound" - do you mean difficult to hear the individual instruments and all blended into one sound?

"Wrapper of overproduction" - Does this mean it sounds too clean, not like a band of guys playing live but direct input of instruments into the mix?

"how the drums are mixed" - what about it? Cant clearly hear them?

Sorry for all the question, i'm hearing a lot about production at the moment and not too clear what peoples issues are with it.
The thing I found was difficult to pick out stuff like the bass and some drums, is that what you mean by 'wall of sound' maybe.

I’m right there with you on the production talk and I don’t think I want to get more of an understanding because then I may become nit picky too. I like what I like, I’m not a musician or a producer. If the band had an issue with it they would have told him to take a hike or go back to work.

spankyMP

Kwieneke said:

mace1229 said:

I have the same issue with DM and Running, Ed's voice.
Not the way he sounds, but I just can't understand him and he seems drowned out. I don't know if that is production or what. But they have plenty of heavier songs where you can still clearly hear him sing.
But here he just sounds more like backing vocals that you're supposed to karaoke too.

he sounds drowned out. he is so hard to hear and understand 

On my headphones, in the car, and on the computer he is front and center in both songs. On my echo studio which is supposedly atmos, he is way drowned out and barely audible on both songs.

Spiritual_Chaos

BF25394 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

BF25394 said:

CROJAM95 said:

Force Of Nature said:

CROJAM95 said:

Watt has Charisma.....sounds like thats his IN with big acts...I too wasnt happy about the heavier songs on Earthling, tried to relisten last night......Power of Right/ Good & evil, like the songs but sound is Harsh

Can you explain by what you mean by harsh?

I guess I'm naive to a lot of the production chat but for me they are angry heavy songs so I'd expect a harsh sound

Muddled, no room to breathe, confined, abrasive

vs/vitalogy have heavy songs, they sound BALANCED....I guess where he has the guitars in the mix isnt appealing to my ears 

But those albums don't sound alike at all. Vitalogy has a very low-fi sound. Vs. is very crisp. And both are departures from Ten, which is slick and overproduced.

I would not say Ten is overproduced. It's produced, with a clear sonic identity. But that production makes that album into what it is and the songs gel. And helped it be a hit for sure.

Don't see why it would be overproduced.

The band is on the record about it being overproduced. It's slathered in reverb, for one thing. They had Brendan O'Brien remix and remaster it for the box set because they thought it needed it.

EDIT: The always-wise kmcmanus beat me to this observation.

The band being on record and BoB remixing doesn't matter in context of my opinion. Just like James Cameron saying Terminator 2 should be wiped of it's inherit grain and be slathered in teal 25 years later, doesn't matter one bit.

Stand by your piece of art as it was when you once released it onto the world.

The album should have been respected for what it was, and BoB shouldn't have remixed it (in my opinion). At least they still "offer" the original version, which was and is levelheaded and nice.

tbergs

When I focus in on Ed work headphones on, I can make out almost all the lyrics except the end, which is basically inaudible besides when he says "fuck" (at least I think he does ).

I do like the little vocal fills he adds at times and I get The Fixer reference after hearing the "Yeah, yeah, yeah" parts before the verse. All in all, good song, even if a little wall of sound-ish. I think a good live version properly mixed will shine for this song. I remember hearing Binaural songs live and being completely blown away about how much more alive they sounded. Mt. Baker recordings on the early versions were superb.

spankyMP

ry75guy said:

 It totally sucks for those who aren't digging it. The hype of a new PJ album only to not love it would be such a let down. I really hope there will be some songs you'll love. Because there's nothing like hearing a new song by them that reminds you of how amazing they are. 

Agreed. I can’t understand shelving it after a couple of listens. There are so many layers and nuance(?) to most of their songs that you only pick up on after multiple listens. I remember pointing out a guitar part on Alive to my friends years ago and they hadn’t picked up on it until I started mimicking it. I think it’s stone’s part during the chorus just as/after Ed sings “still alive.” Just a few notes, but It still stands out to me so much today. I’m already picking up little drum changes near the end of Dark Matter or how the bass peaks(?) around the 1:35 mark. Now with running there are parts that I’m picking up on that stand out. Heck, lyrics that didn’t hit home with me at age 20 are hitting differently all these years later. Moral of the story, don’t give up on them. If you shelved something even years ago, give it another listen.

BF25394

Spiritual_Chaos said:

kmcmanus said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

BF25394 said:

CROJAM95 said:

Force Of Nature said:

CROJAM95 said:

Watt has Charisma.....sounds like thats his IN with big acts...I too wasnt happy about the heavier songs on Earthling, tried to relisten last night......Power of Right/ Good & evil, like the songs but sound is Harsh

Can you explain by what you mean by harsh?

I guess I'm naive to a lot of the production chat but for me they are angry heavy songs so I'd expect a harsh sound

Muddled, no room to breathe, confined, abrasive

vs/vitalogy have heavy songs, they sound BALANCED....I guess where he has the guitars in the mix isnt appealing to my ears 

But those albums don't sound alike at all. Vitalogy has a very low-fi sound. Vs. is very crisp. And both are departures from Ten, which is slick and overproduced.

I would not say Ten is overproduced. It's produced, with a clear sonic identity. But that production makes that album into what it is and the songs gel. And helped it be a hit for sure.

Don't see why it would be overproduced.

The band HAS said it’s overproduced. And then had BoB remix it, proving that they do indeed think so.

I don't care what they indeed think. Just like I don't care about George Lucas thinking CGI-effects all over 1977s Star Wars is correct. Whatever he HAS said.

Also, another thing - I think the band should have stood by the album and not tinker with it 20 years later and have another producer, BoB, remix it. Respect the producer and the piece of art that was made in a time and should be respected as part of it's time. 

I'm not saying you have to agree with it. The point is that it's not a fringe opinion that Ten was overproduced. Whether they "should have" stood by the album or not, they expressed some dissatisfaction with it. For many Pearl Jam fans for whom it is the album that turned them on to the band, it doesn't make sense because they wouldn't change a thing about the album. I understand that. For other fans who feel that their next two albums were obvious improvements, it's easier to relate to the criticism.

BF25394

tbergs said:

When I focus in on Ed work headphones on, I can make out almost all the lyrics except the end, which is basically inaudible besides when he says "fuck" (at least I think he does ).

I do like the little vocal fills he adds at times and I get The Fixer reference after hearing the "Yeah, yeah, yeah" parts before the verse. All in all, good song, even if a little wall of sound-ish. I think a good live version properly mixed will shine for this song. I remember hearing Binaural songs live and being completely blown away about how much more alive they sounded. Mt. Baker recordings on the early versions were superb.

The lyrics and vocals-- shouted outro aside-- really are pretty obvious once you see them in print. They do not sound garbled or unintelligible at all once you know what they are. (I know this is a "Captain Obvious" observation, but people who are complaining that they can't understand the words must not be aware that the words are available to be read.)

lastexit78

It’s okay to love this band, have tickets to multiple shows and still be excited for the album while admitting this song is awful. Dark Matter is a solid track but this song is a mess. Not sure what possessed them to release this as a 2nd single. The production of both tracks has me concerned  more than anything, hoping Watt didn’t butcher the whole album. Anyway just my 2 cents, hopefully others are enjoying it. 

bootlegger10

I like how people are bashing Watt because they can't understand Eddie's lyrics, like this is the first time you couldn't make out the lyrics.

Listened to both new songs on headphones via Apple Music and they are fucking bangers.  Love it.  Haven't loved a new PJ song in a while.  

bootlegger10

And this is the first time I've paid attention to the drums on a Matt Cameron record so good production or not, we can thank Watt for letting Cameron off his leash.

THEBIBLEISTEN

lastexit78 said:

It’s okay to love this band, have tickets to multiple shows and still be excited for the album while admitting this song is awful. Dark Matter is a solid track but this song is a mess. Not sure what possessed them to release this as a 2nd single. The production of both tracks has me concerned  more than anything, hoping Watt didn’t butcher the whole album. Anyway just my 2 cents, hopefully others are enjoying it. 

Yeah a Grammy award winning producer who has worked with huge artists and is in high demand would butcher the whole record. Wtf? You people need to relax. Never seen a fan base ruin and dissect every little thing a band does to take the joy out it. People bitching about shipping rates, record cost, song production, drums, vocals, seat selection, city selection, tix prices, t shirt size, poster design etc.  this post is not directed to you last exit just an overall rant to the negativity on here.  Ok, I’m done. Carry on with the bitching 

spankyMP

THEBIBLEISTEN said:

lastexit78 said:

It’s okay to love this band, have tickets to multiple shows and still be excited for the album while admitting this song is awful. Dark Matter is a solid track but this song is a mess. Not sure what possessed them to release this as a 2nd single. The production of both tracks has me concerned  more than anything, hoping Watt didn’t butcher the whole album. Anyway just my 2 cents, hopefully others are enjoying it. 

Yeah a Grammy award winning producer who has worked with huge artists and is in high demand would butcher the whole record. Wtf? You people need to relax. Never seen a fan base ruin and dissect every little thing a band does to take the joy out it. People bitching about shipping rates, record cost, song production, drums, vocals, seat selection, city selection, tix prices, t shirt size, poster design etc.  this post is not directed to you last exit just an overall rant to the negativity on here.  Ok, I’m done. Carry on with the bitching 

+1. They have spoiled us for years and we are now spoiled.