Middle East ......

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 38,360
    OWN IT. What was that about the river to the sea, again?

    Continued from previous post:

    In early July, Israeli forces descended with heavy machinery on another hilltop in the West Bank — this time to demolish an illegal settler outpost. Young men at Givat Tzur Harel, north of Ramallah,clashed with security forces as they razed several structures.

    It was a rare example of Israeli authorities cracking down on illegal building by Jewish settlers. “Whenever an outpost is demolished, it is usually rebuilt within an hour to a day,” said Arik Ascherman, a rabbi from Torat Tzedek, an Israeli rights group.

    The police would leave and the young settlers would return, said one teenager. His friend Haggai, 17, said he hoped the new civilian administration headed by Roth would be more lenient.

    A fundraising drive for the “heroes who colonize the land of Tzur Harel” quickly raised thousands of shekels.

    “The day will come when this place will be a settlement,” said Haggai, who declined to give his last name. “We have four directions to advance. All of the Land of Israel should belong to the Jews.”

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/08/15/israel-west-bank-settlements-palestinians/

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  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 30,131

    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 Posts: 23,091
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 37,826
    so a couple days ago it was reported idf had found several dead hostages somewhere in gaza. idf said to not jump to conclusions about how they died......
    then theres this...


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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 38,360
    4D chess right here.

    “The Hostage Crisis in Israel is only taking place because Comrade Kamala Harris is weak and ineffective, and has no idea what she’s doing,” Trump wrote on Truth Social. “Biden failed, and now he spends his day on the beach, plotting and scheming how to take out his once Political Opponent, ME … THE OCTOBER 7th ISRAELI CRISIS WOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED IF I WERE PRESIDENT!”
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  • josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 29,197
    4D chess right here.

    “The Hostage Crisis in Israel is only taking place because Comrade Kamala Harris is weak and ineffective, and has no idea what she’s doing,” Trump wrote on Truth Social. “Biden failed, and now he spends his day on the beach, plotting and scheming how to take out his once Political Opponent, ME … THE OCTOBER 7th ISRAELI CRISIS WOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED IF I WERE PRESIDENT!”
    So on his 1st and only term Hamas was not a thing! Why didn’t he negotiate a peace deal when he was the president oh yeah I forgot Jarred dear boy was in charge of ME affairs! What did he accomplish the movement of the embassy? But no peace deal? 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
  • 4D chess right here.

    “The Hostage Crisis in Israel is only taking place because Comrade Kamala Harris is weak and ineffective, and has no idea what she’s doing,” Trump wrote on Truth Social. “Biden failed, and now he spends his day on the beach, plotting and scheming how to take out his once Political Opponent, ME … THE OCTOBER 7th ISRAELI CRISIS WOULD NEVER HAVE HAPPENED IF I WERE PRESIDENT!”
    So on his 1st and only term Hamas was not a thing! Why didn’t he negotiate a peace deal when he was the president oh yeah I forgot Jarred dear boy was in charge of ME affairs! What did he accomplish the movement of the embassy? But no peace deal? 
    i am pretty sure that the movement of the embassy was one of the catalysts for the 10/7 attacks. it pissed off a LOT on non-israelis.
    "You can tell the greatness of a man by what makes him angry."  - Lincoln

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 38,360
    Tens of thousands of Israelis protesting their government. Guess they’re all antisemites and should be expelled, eh? Silence them now! How dare they!
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 37,826
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 37,826
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 37,826
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,542
    20 year old claims IDF used him as human shield

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gaza-israel-hamas-human-shield-1.7311417
    new album "Cigarettes" out Fall 2024!

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  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 38,360
    Thanks Bibi. Some ally. Seems Bibi has adopted the Iranian playbook of dealing with peaceful protests.

    U.S. woman fatally shot at West Bank protest; witnesses say IDF shot her

    The Israel Defense Forces said it was “looking into reports that a foreign national was killed as a result of shots fired in the area.”

    An American woman was killed Friday in the occupied West Bank, the State Department said. Two witnesses said the woman was shot in the head by Israeli forces who had opened fire.

    The woman, Aysenur Eygi, a 26-year old volunteer with the International Solidarity Movement, a pro-Palestinian activist group, had been attending a protest against Jewish settlement expansion in the town of Beita when she was shot, her colleagues said. Copies of her passport that circulated online said she was born in Turkey and the Turkish Foreign Ministry said in a statement that she was a citizen.

    The Israel Defense Forces said it was “looking into reports that a foreign national was killed as a result of shots fired in the area.” The statement said that Israeli forces in the area of Beita, in the northern West Bank, “responded with fire toward a main instigator of violent activity who hurled rocks at the forces and posed a threat to them.”

    “The details of the incident and the circumstances in which she was hit are under review,” it said.

    State Department spokesman Matthew Miller said in a statement that the United States was “aware of the tragic death of an American citizen, Aysenur Eygi, today in the West Bank.”

    “We offer our deepest condolences to her family and loved ones. We are urgently gathering more information about the circumstances of her death, and will have more to say as we learn more. We have no higher priority than the safety and security of American citizens,” Miller said.

    Jonathan Pollak, a volunteer with ISM, said the shooting took place about 30 minutes after protesters had dispersed, at a time when there were no active clashes taking place, and as foreign volunteers, including Eygi, stood observing at a distance of about 200 yards from the Israeli military.

    “There was no justification for taking that shot,” he said.

    When he and his colleagues arrived in Beita on Friday, soldiers were already deployed around a site where people were set to perform Friday prayers, he said. As soon as the prayers were over, “clashes began,” he said. The soldiers used tear gas and live ammunition “almost immediately.” There was also “stone throwing” at the soldiers, he said.

    The ISM activists retreated some distance away, down a hill, some 200 yards from the town where the soldiers were stationed. “We stood there for about half an hour,” he said. The soldiers took over a rooftop in the town, “a controlling rooftop” he said. Eygi was in an olive grove, according to Pollak and another ISM volunteer who spoke on condition she be identified by her first name, Mariam, for fear of retribution.

    “I didn’t see her at the moment of the shooting because I was looking at the soldiers," said Pollak, referring to Eygi. "I saw the soldiers shooting. I saw the flare, I saw them aiming,” he said. Both he and Mariam said there were two shots – one that struck a metal object, and another that hit Eygi in the head.

    “We were clearly visible to the army, there was nothing happening where were standing,” said Mariam. “We were internationals,” she said adding that Palestinian youth who had clashed with the soldiers were much further away, up the hill. “We were just standing there,” she said.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2024/09/06/west-bank-american-idf-aysenur-eygi/


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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 37,826
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 38,360
    mickeyrat said:
    Look at all those anti-semites! They’re going to be deported and stripped of Israeli citizenship, right?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 37,826
    yet again, cannot be trusted. area  THEY designated a humanitarian zone...
    40 dead

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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyrat said:
    yet again, cannot be trusted. area  THEY designated a humanitarian zone...
    40 dead

    The region’s only democracy spreading democracy.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 37,826
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 37,826
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • 23scidoo23scidoo Posts: 19,107
    At least 41.182 Palestinians has killed since 7 October..
    Athens 2006. Dusseldorf 2007. Berlin 2009. Venice 2010. Amsterdam 1 2012. Amsterdam 1+2 2014. Buenos Aires 2015.
    Prague Krakow Berlin 2018. Berlin 2022
    EV, Taormina 1+2 2017.

    I wish i was the souvenir you kept your house key on..
  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Posts: 2,575
    23scidoo said:
    At least 41.182 Palestinians has killed since 7 October..
    How many of those were Hamas deliberately hiding behind? This is far from cut-and-dried.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,542
    23scidoo said:
    At least 41.182 Palestinians has killed since 7 October..
    How many of those were Hamas deliberately hiding behind? This is far from cut-and-dried.
    I'm sure the families are understanding of your little asterisk. 
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  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Posts: 2,575
    23scidoo said:
    At least 41.182 Palestinians has killed since 7 October..
    How many of those were Hamas deliberately hiding behind? This is far from cut-and-dried.
    I'm sure the families are understanding of your little asterisk. 
    How many of the 41,000 were combatants?  Hamas makes no distinction. 
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
  • 23scidoo said:
    At least 41.182 Palestinians has killed since 7 October..
    How many of those were Hamas deliberately hiding behind? This is far from cut-and-dried.
    I'm sure the families are understanding of your little asterisk. 
    How many of the 41,000 were combatants?  Hamas makes no distinction. 
    27,180 were women and children, if you believe the reporting that 2/3 were such, leaving 14,002 Hamas combatants. 
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Posts: 2,575
    23scidoo said:
    At least 41.182 Palestinians has killed since 7 October..
    How many of those were Hamas deliberately hiding behind? This is far from cut-and-dried.
    I'm sure the families are understanding of your little asterisk. 
    How many of the 41,000 were combatants?  Hamas makes no distinction. 
    27,180 were women and children, if you believe the reporting that 2/3 were such, leaving 14,002 Hamas combatants. 
    Those are the numbers Hamas has released, correct? Personally I need those numbers independently verified before I can accept them. If those aren’t numbers from Hamas I would genuinely be interested in your source.

    Where does the doctor who was holding Israelis for Hamas fall in their count?
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
  • 23scidoo said:
    At least 41.182 Palestinians has killed since 7 October..
    How many of those were Hamas deliberately hiding behind? This is far from cut-and-dried.
    I'm sure the families are understanding of your little asterisk. 
    How many of the 41,000 were combatants?  Hamas makes no distinction. 
    27,180 were women and children, if you believe the reporting that 2/3 were such, leaving 14,002 Hamas combatants. 
    Those are the numbers Hamas has released, correct? Personally I need those numbers independently verified before I can accept them. If those aren’t numbers from Hamas I would genuinely be interested in your source.

    Where does the doctor who was holding Israelis for Hamas fall in their count?
    Take your pick.

    https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/gaza-war-un-revises-death-toll-women-and-children

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-hamas-war-in-maps-and-charts-live-tracker


    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Posts: 2,575
    23scidoo said:
    At least 41.182 Palestinians has killed since 7 October..
    How many of those were Hamas deliberately hiding behind? This is far from cut-and-dried.
    I'm sure the families are understanding of your little asterisk. 
    How many of the 41,000 were combatants?  Hamas makes no distinction. 
    27,180 were women and children, if you believe the reporting that 2/3 were such, leaving 14,002 Hamas combatants. 
    Those are the numbers Hamas has released, correct? Personally I need those numbers independently verified before I can accept them. If those aren’t numbers from Hamas I would genuinely be interested in your source.

    Where does the doctor who was holding Israelis for Hamas fall in their count?
    Take your pick.

    https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/gaza-war-un-revises-death-toll-women-and-children

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-hamas-war-in-maps-and-charts-live-tracker


    Thank you,  sadly the best source seems to be Wikipedia. Two of the others use Hamas' numbers and the other is from May.

    I don't think either of my questions has been answered to my own satisfaction,  and I'm not sure they truly can be answered but I believe they are extremely relevant to this conversation.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 38,360
    edited September 16
    23scidoo said:
    At least 41.182 Palestinians has killed since 7 October..
    How many of those were Hamas deliberately hiding behind? This is far from cut-and-dried.
    I'm sure the families are understanding of your little asterisk. 
    How many of the 41,000 were combatants?  Hamas makes no distinction. 
    27,180 were women and children, if you believe the reporting that 2/3 were such, leaving 14,002 Hamas combatants. 
    Those are the numbers Hamas has released, correct? Personally I need those numbers independently verified before I can accept them. If those aren’t numbers from Hamas I would genuinely be interested in your source.

    Where does the doctor who was holding Israelis for Hamas fall in their count?
    Take your pick.

    https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/gaza-war-un-revises-death-toll-women-and-children

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-hamas-war-in-maps-and-charts-live-tracker


    Thank you,  sadly the best source seems to be Wikipedia. Two of the others use Hamas' numbers and the other is from May.

    I don't think either of my questions has been answered to my own satisfaction,  and I'm not sure they truly can be answered but I believe they are extremely relevant to this conversation.
    Why do you doubt the Ministry of Health numbers? What would your own satisfaction consist of? Bodies lined up in neat rows with 3 independent outside organizations counting and comparing notes?

    I’d fathom it’s much higher than we know or realize based on the widespread flattening of buildings.

    And the Wikipedia citation cites the UN’s Office of Humanitarian Affairs.
    Post edited by Halifax2TheMax on
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • DarthMaeglinDarthMaeglin Posts: 2,575
    23scidoo said:
    At least 41.182 Palestinians has killed since 7 October..
    How many of those were Hamas deliberately hiding behind? This is far from cut-and-dried.
    I'm sure the families are understanding of your little asterisk. 
    How many of the 41,000 were combatants?  Hamas makes no distinction. 
    27,180 were women and children, if you believe the reporting that 2/3 were such, leaving 14,002 Hamas combatants. 
    Those are the numbers Hamas has released, correct? Personally I need those numbers independently verified before I can accept them. If those aren’t numbers from Hamas I would genuinely be interested in your source.

    Where does the doctor who was holding Israelis for Hamas fall in their count?
    Take your pick.

    https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/gaza-war-un-revises-death-toll-women-and-children

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-hamas-war-in-maps-and-charts-live-tracker


    Thank you,  sadly the best source seems to be Wikipedia. Two of the others use Hamas' numbers and the other is from May.

    I don't think either of my questions has been answered to my own satisfaction,  and I'm not sure they truly can be answered but I believe they are extremely relevant to this conversation.
    Why do you doubt the Ministry of Health numbers? What would your own satisfaction consist of? Bodies lined up in neat rows with 3 independent outside organizations counting and comparing notes?

    I’d fathom it’s much higher than we know or realize based on the widespread flattening of buildings.

    And the Wikipedia citation cites the UN’s Office of Humanitarian Affairs.
    I've read enough of your posts to know you're smart and informed,  so surely you must be aware that the Ministry of Health that you trust is part of the Hamas government. A government who has openly stated they want as many civilian casualties of their own citizens to achieve their so-called political goals.  That is why I can't trust that organization's numbers. 

    I honestly don't know what would completely satisfy me on this because no war ever yields a definitive body count, and I'm not going to guess at the actual body count.

    As I said earlier this is far from cut-and-dried, despite efforts on both sides to make it so.
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 38,360
    edited September 16
    23scidoo said:
    At least 41.182 Palestinians has killed since 7 October..
    How many of those were Hamas deliberately hiding behind? This is far from cut-and-dried.
    I'm sure the families are understanding of your little asterisk. 
    How many of the 41,000 were combatants?  Hamas makes no distinction. 
    27,180 were women and children, if you believe the reporting that 2/3 were such, leaving 14,002 Hamas combatants. 
    Those are the numbers Hamas has released, correct? Personally I need those numbers independently verified before I can accept them. If those aren’t numbers from Hamas I would genuinely be interested in your source.

    Where does the doctor who was holding Israelis for Hamas fall in their count?
    Take your pick.

    https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/gaza-war-un-revises-death-toll-women-and-children

    https://www.aljazeera.com/news/longform/2023/10/9/israel-hamas-war-in-maps-and-charts-live-tracker


    Thank you,  sadly the best source seems to be Wikipedia. Two of the others use Hamas' numbers and the other is from May.

    I don't think either of my questions has been answered to my own satisfaction,  and I'm not sure they truly can be answered but I believe they are extremely relevant to this conversation.
    Why do you doubt the Ministry of Health numbers? What would your own satisfaction consist of? Bodies lined up in neat rows with 3 independent outside organizations counting and comparing notes?

    I’d fathom it’s much higher than we know or realize based on the widespread flattening of buildings.

    And the Wikipedia citation cites the UN’s Office of Humanitarian Affairs.
    I've read enough of your posts to know you're smart and informed,  so surely you must be aware that the Ministry of Health that you trust is part of the Hamas government. A government who has openly stated they want as many civilian casualties of their own citizens to achieve their so-called political goals.  That is why I can't trust that organization's numbers. 

    I honestly don't know what would completely satisfy me on this because no war ever yields a definitive body count, and I'm not going to guess at the actual body count.

    As I said earlier this is far from cut-and-dried, despite efforts on both sides to make it so.
    Do you hold the Israeli government to the same standard? Or do you just “trust” them, because?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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