Middle East ......

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  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,523
    Israel is fighting an urban war against an enemy that uses civilian buildings and treats civilians like human shields. There are bound to be horrific results but it is not remotely a genocide.
  • DarthMaeglin
    DarthMaeglin Toronto Posts: 2,956
    hmmm. drone strike on a school killing civilians, including children, who were fleeing the violence. but some among us still need further proof that this is a genocide, just because it isn't explicitly written down on some governmental manifesto. open your eyes. 
    Cute. 
    "The world is full of idiots and I am but one of them."

    10-30-1991 Toronto, Toronto 1 & 2 2016, Toronto 2022
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,359
    https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-news-05-26-2024-eb25eb70d2c7b9e6bcd0497060eccbca   Palestinian medics say Israeli airstrikes kill 35 in Gaza's Rafah as displaced people are hit


     
    Palestinian medics say Israeli airstrikes kill 35 in Gaza's Rafah as displaced people are hit
    By WAFAA SHURAFA, TIA GOLDENBERG and SAMY MAGDY
    2 hours ago

    DEIR AL-BALAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — Palestinian health workers said Israeli airstrikes killed at least 35 people Sunday and hit tents for displaced people in the southern Gaza city of Rafah, and “numerous” others were trapped in flaming debris. Gaza's Health Ministry said women and children made up most of the dead and dozens of wounded.

    The attacks came two days after the International Court of Justice ordered Israel to end its military offensive in Rafah, where more than half of Gaza's 2.3 million population had sought shelter before Israel's incursion earlier this month. Tens of thousands of people remain in the area while many others have fled.

    Footage from the scene of the largest airstrike showed heavy destruction. Israel’s army confirmed the strike and said it hit a Hamas installation and killed two senior Hamas militants. It said it was investigating reports that civilians were harmed. Defense Minister Yoav Gallant was in Rafah on Sunday and was briefed on the “deepening of operations” there, his office said.

    A spokesperson with the Palestinian Red Crescent Society said the death toll was likely to rise as search and rescue efforts continued in Rafah’s Tal al-Sultan neighborhood about two kilometers (1.2 miles) northwest of the city center.

    The society asserted that the location had been designated by Israel as a “humanitarian area.” The neighborhood is not included in areas that Israel’s military ordered evacuated earlier this month.

    The airstrike was reported hours after Hamas fired a barrage of rockets from Gaza that set off air raid sirens as far away as Tel Aviv for the first time in months in a show of resilience more than seven months into Israel's massive air, sea and ground offensive.

    There were no reports of casualties in what appeared to be the first long-range rocket attack from Gaza since January. Hamas’ military wing claimed responsibility. Israel's military said eight projectiles crossed into Israel after being launched from Rafah and “a number” were intercepted, and the launcher was destroyed.

    Earlier Sunday, dozens of aid trucks entered Gaza from southern Israel under a new agreement to bypass the Rafah crossing with Egypt after Israeli forces seized the Palestinian side of it earlier this month. Israel’s military said 126 aid trucks entered via the nearby Kerem Shalom crossing.

    But it was not immediately clear if humanitarian groups could access the aid — including medical supplies — because of fighting. The crossing has been largely inaccessible because of Israel’s offensive in Rafah. United Nations agencies say it is usually too dangerous to retrieve the aid. The World Health Organization last week said an expanded Israeli incursion in Rafah would have “disastrous” impact."

    “With the humanitarian operation near collapse, the secretary-general emphasizes that the Israeli authorities must facilitate the safe pickup and delivery of humanitarian supplies from Egypt entering Kerem Shalom,” the spokesperson for U.N. chief Antonio Guterres said in a statement.

    Egypt refuses to reopen its side of the Rafah crossing until control of the Gaza side is handed back to Palestinians. It agreed to temporarily divert traffic through Kerem Shalom, Gaza's main cargo terminal, after a call between U.S. President Joe Biden and Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sissi.

    The war between Israel and Hamas has killed nearly 36,000 Palestinians, according to Gaza's Health Ministry, which does not distinguish between civilians and fighters in its count. Israel blames civilian deaths on Hamas because the militants operate in dense, residential areas.

    Around 80% of Gaza's 2.3 million people have fled their homes, severe hunger is widespread and U.N. officials say parts of the territory are experiencing famine.

    Hamas triggered the war with its Oct. 7 attack into Israel, in which Palestinian militants killed some 1,200 people, mostly civilians, and seized some 250 hostages. Hamas still holds some 100 hostages and the remains of around 30 others after most of the rest were released during a cease-fire last year.

    Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said Israel must take over Rafah to eliminate Hamas’ remaining battalions and achieve “total victory” over the militants, who recently regrouped in other parts of Gaza.

    The war has also heightened tensions in the Israeli-occupied West Bank. Palestinian authorities on Sunday said Israeli forces shot dead a 14-year-old boy near the southern West Bank town of Saeer. The Israeli army said the Palestinian male was shot dead after trying to stab Israeli forces at Beit Einun Junction.

    SOUTHERN GAZA LARGELY CUT OFF FROM AID

    Southern Gaza has been largely cut off from aid since Israel launched what it called a limited incursion into Rafah on May 6. Since then over 1 million Palestinians, many already displaced, have fled the city.

    Northern Gaza receives aid through two land routes that Israel opened during global outrage after Israeli strikes killed seven aid workers in April.

    A few dozen trucks enter Gaza daily through a U.S.-built floating pier, far below the 150 trucks a day that officials hoped for. Aid groups say 600 trucks a day are needed.

    ISRAEL DETAINS MAN OVER MUTINY THREAT

    Israel’s military said it had detained a suspect over a widely circulated video in which a man dressed as a soldier threatens mutiny. The man says tens of thousands of soldiers were ready to disobey the defense minister over his suggestion that Palestinians should govern Gaza after the war, and pledged loyalty to Netanyahu alone.

    Israeli military spokesman Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari said the man has been removed from reserve duty. It was not clear when or where the video was made. The prime minister’s office released a brief statement condemning all forms of military insubordination.

    ___

    Goldenberg reported from Tel Aviv, Israel and Magdy from Cairo.

    ___

    A previous version corrected to say the Tal al-Sultan neighborhood is not included in areas that Israel’s military ordered evacuated earlier this month.

    ___

    Follow AP’s coverage of the war at https://apnews.com/hub/israel-hamas-war


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  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,458
    pjl44 said:
    Israel is fighting an urban war against an enemy that uses civilian buildings and treats civilians like human shields. There are bound to be horrific results but it is not remotely a genocide.
    yeah, really sucks to be bound by ethics, even in war. Israeli government has no such ethics. 
    Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall




  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,359
    gift article


    Far-right Israeli settlers step up attacks on aid trucks bound for Gaza
    By Loveday Morris
    May 26, 2024 at 13:45 ET
    TARQUMIYAH, West Bank — Radical Israeli settlers have expanded their attacks on aid trucks passing through the West Bank this month, blocking food from reaching Gaza as humanitarian groups warn that the enclave is sinking deeper into famine.
    Groups of settler youth are tailing relief convoys, setting up checkpoints and interrogating drivers. In some cases, far-right attackers have ransacked and burned trucks and beaten Palestinian drivers, leaving at least two hospitalized.
    The assailants use a web of publicly accessible WhatsApp groups to track the trucks and coordinate attacks, providing a window into their activities. Working off what they say are tips from Israeli soldiers and police, in addition to the public, members pore over photos to work out which vehicles might be carrying aid to Gaza and mobilize local supporters to block them.
    An attack on Thursday showed the system in action: Users in one WhatsApp group with more than 800 members began posting about a flatbed truck loaded with sugar, sharing photos from the road as they followed it.

    continues.....

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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,359
    just words. hollow empty words...

    https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-hamas-war-news-05-27-2024-7b743a848ef8bfbe69a9659a4a5dd047   Netanyahu says deadly Israeli strike in Rafah was the result of a 'tragic mistake'


     
    Netanyahu says deadly Israeli strike in Rafah was the result of a 'tragic mistake'
    By MELANIE LIDMAN, TIA GOLDENBERG and SAMY MAGDY
    10 mins ago

    TEL AVIV, Israel (AP) — Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said Monday that a “tragic mistake” was made in an Israeli strike in the southern Gaza city of Rafah that set fire to a camp housing displaced Palestinians and, according to local officials, killed at least 45 people.

    The strike only added to the surging international criticism Israel has faced over its war with Hamas, with even its closest allies expressing outrage at civilian deaths. Israel insists it adheres to international law even as it faces scrutiny in the world’s top courts, one of which last week demanded that it halt the offensive in Rafah.

    Netanyahu did not elaborate on the error. Israel's military initially said it had carried out a precise airstrike on a Hamas compound, killing two senior militants. As details of the strike and fire emerged, the military said it had opened an investigation into the deaths of civilians.

    Sunday night's attack, which appeared to be one of the war’s deadliest, helped push the overall Palestinian death toll in the war above 36,000, according to the Gaza Health Ministry, which does not distinguish between fighters and noncombatants in its tally.

    “Despite our utmost efforts not to harm innocent civilians, last night there was a tragic mistake,” Netanyahu said Monday in an address to Israel’s parliament. “We are investigating the incident and will obtain a conclusion because this is our policy.”

    Mohammed Abuassa, who rushed to the scene in the northwestern neighborhood of Tel al-Sultan, said rescuers "pulled out people who were in an unbearable state.”

    “We pulled out children who were in pieces. We pulled out young and elderly people. The fire in the camp was unreal,” he said.

    At least 45 people were killed, according to the Gaza Health Ministry and the Palestinian Red Crescent rescue service. The ministry said the dead included at least 12 women, eight children and three older adults, with another three bodies burned beyond recognition.

    In a separate development, Egypt’s military said one of its soldiers was shot dead during an exchange of fire in the Rafah area, without providing further details. Israel said it was in contact with Egyptian authorities, and both sides said they were investigating.

    An initial investigation found that the soldier had responded to an exchange of fire between Israeli forces and Palestinian militants, Egypt’s state-owned Qahera TV reported. Egypt has warned that Israel’s incursion in Rafah could threaten the two countries’ decades-old peace treaty.

    The U.N. Security Council scheduled an emergency closed meeting for Tuesday afternoon on the situation in Rafah at the request of Algeria, the Arab representative on the council, two council diplomats told The Associated Press ahead of an official announcement.

    Rafah, the southernmost Gaza city on the border with Egypt, had housed more than a million people — about half of Gaza's population — displaced from other parts of the territory. Most have fled once again since Israel launched what it called a limited incursion there earlier this month. Hundreds of thousands are packed into squalid tent camps in and around the city.

    Elsewhere in Rafah, the director of the Kuwait Hospital, one of the city’s last functioning medical centers, said it was shutting down and that staff members were relocating to a field hospital. Dr. Suhaib al-Hamas said the decision was made after a strike killed two health workers Monday at the entrance to the hospital.

    Netanyahu says Israel must destroy what he says are Hamas’ last remaining battalions in Rafah. The militant group launched a barrage of rockets Sunday from the city toward heavily populated central Israel, setting off air raid sirens but causing no injuries.

    The strike on Rafah brought a new wave of condemnation, even from Israel's strongest supporters.

    The U.S. National Security Council said in a statement that the “devastating images" from the strike on Rafah were "heartbreaking." It said the U.S. was working with the Israeli military and others to assess what happened.

    French President Emmanuel Macron was more blunt, saying “these operations must stop” in a post on X. "There are no safe areas in Rafah for Palestinian civilians. I call for full respect for international law and an immediate ceasefire,” he wrote.

    The Foreign Office of Germany, which has been a staunch supporter of Israel for decades, said “the images of charred bodies, including children, from the airstrike in Rafah are unbearable.”

    “The exact circumstances must be clarified, and the investigation announced by the Israeli army must now come quickly," the ministry added. ”The civilian population must finally be better protected.”

    Qatar, a key mediator in attempts to secure a cease-fire and the release of hostages held by Hamas, said the Rafah strike could “complicate” talks, Negotiations, which appear to be restarting, have faltered repeatedly over Hamas’ demand for a lasting truce and the withdrawal of Israeli forces, terms Israeli leaders have publicly rejected.

    The Israeli military’s top legal official, Maj. Gen. Yifat Tomer-Yerushalmi, said authorities were examining the strike in Rafah and that the military regrets the loss of civilian life.

    Speaking to an Israeli lawyers’ conference, Tomer-Yerushalmi said Israel has launched 70 criminal investigations into possible violations of international law, including the deaths of civilians, the conditions at a detention facility holding suspected militants and the deaths of some inmates in Israeli custody. She said incidents of property crimes and looting were also being examined.

    Israel has long maintained it has an independent judiciary capable of investigating and prosecuting abuses. But rights groups say Israeli authorities routinely fail to fully investigate violence against Palestinians and that even when soldiers are held accountable, the punishment is usually light.

    Israel has denied allegations of genocide brought against it by South Africa at the International Court of Justice. Last week, the court ordered Israel to halt its Rafah offensive, a ruling it has no power to enforce.

    Separately, the chief prosecutor at the International Criminal Court is seeking arrest warrants against Netanyahu and Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, as well as three Hamas leaders, over alleged crimes linked to the war. The ICC only intervenes when it concludes that the state in question is unable or unwilling to properly prosecute such crimes.

    Israel says it does its best to adhere to the laws of war. Israeli leaders also say they face an enemy that makes no such commitment, embeds itself in civilian areas and refuses to release Israeli hostages unconditionally.

    Hamas triggered the war with its Oct. 7 attack into Israel, in which Palestinian militants killed some 1,200 people, mostly civilians, and seized some 250 hostages. Hamas still holds about 100 hostages and the remains of around 30 others after most of the rest were released during a cease-fire last year.

    Around 80% of Gaza’s 2.3 million people have fled their homes. Severe hunger is widespread, and U.N. officials say parts of the territory are experiencing famine.

    ___

    Magdy reported from Cairo. Associated Press writers Zeke Miller in Washington, Kirsten Grieshaber in Berlin, Jon Gambrell in Dubai, United Arab Emirates, and Colleen Barry in Rome contributed to this report.

    ___

    Follow AP’s coverage of the war at https://apnews.com/hub/israel-hamas-war


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  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,359
    https://apnews.com/article/israel-palestinians-gaza-war-hamas-muwasi-humanitarian-2de77ea9095d2c680f57f77ad395917c   'We have nothing.' As Israel attacks Rafah, Palestinians are living in tents and searching for food


     
    We have nothing.' As Israel attacks Rafah, Palestinians are living in tents and searching for food
    By WAFAA SHURAFA, SAMY MAGDY and LEE KEATH
    26 mins ago

    DEIR AL-BALAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — The tent camps stretch for more than 16 kilometers (10 miles) along Gaza’s coast, filling the beach and sprawling into empty lots, fields and town streets. Families dig trenches to use as toilets. Fathers search for food and water, while children dig through garbage and wrecked buildings for scraps of wood or cardboard for their mothers to burn for cooking.

    Over the past three weeks, Israel’s offensive in Rafah has sent nearly a million Palestinians fleeing the southern Gaza city and scattering across a wide area. Most have already been displaced multiple times during Israel’s nearly 8-month-old war in Gaza, which is aimed at destroying Hamas but has devastated the territory and caused what the United Nations says is a near-famine.

    The situation has been worsened by a dramatic plunge in the amount of food, fuel and other supplies reaching the U.N. and other aid groups to distribute to the population. Palestinians have largely been on their own to resettle their families and find the basics for survival.

    “The situation is tragic. You have 20 people in the tent, with no clean water, no electricity. We have nothing,” said Mohammad Abu Radwan, a schoolteacher in a tent with his wife, six children, and other extended family.

    “I can’t explain what it feels like living through constant displacement, losing your loved ones,” he said. “All of this destroys us mentally.”

    Abu Radwan fled Rafah soon after the Israeli assault on the city began on May 6 as bombardment neared the house where he was sheltering. He and three other families paid $1,000 for donkey carts to take them to the outskirts of Khan Younis, about 6 kilometers (3.6 miles) away, where it took a day living outside before they could assemble the materials for a makeshift tent. Next to the tent, they dug a toilet trench, hanging blankets and old clothes around it for privacy.

    Families usually have to buy the wood and tarps for their tents, which can run up to $500, not counting ropes, nails and the cost of transporting the material, the humanitarian group Mercy Corps said.

    Israeli authorities controlling all entry points into Gaza have been letting greater numbers of private commercial trucks into the territory, the U.N. and aid workers say. More fruits and vegetables are found in markets now, and prices on some have fallen, Palestinians say.

    Still, most homeless Palestinians can’t afford them. Many in Gaza have not received salaries for months and their savings are depleting. Even those who have money in the bank often can’t withdraw it because there is so little physical cash in the territory. Many turn to black market exchanges that charge up to 20% to give cash for transfers from bank accounts.

    Meanwhile, humanitarian convoys with supplies for the U.N. and other aid groups to distribute for free have fallen to nearly their lowest levels in the war, the U.N. says.

    Previously, the U.N. was receiving several hundred trucks a day. That rate has dropped to an average of 53 trucks a day since May 6, according to the latest figures from the U.N. humanitarian office OCHA on Friday. Some 600 trucks a day are needed to stave off starvation, according to USAID.

    In the past three weeks, most of the incoming aid has entered through two crossings from Israel in northern Gaza and via a U.S.-built floating pier taking deliveries by sea. The two main crossings in the south, Rafah from Egypt and Kerem Shalom from Israel, are either not operating or are largely inaccessible for the U.N. because of fighting nearby. Israel says it has been letting hundreds of trucks through Kerem Shalom, but the U.N. has only been able to collect about 170 of them on the Gaza side over the past three weeks because it can't reach the crossing.

    Entry of fuel has fallen to about a third of what it was before the Rafah offensive, according to OCHA. That reduced amount has to be stretched between keeping hospitals, bakeries, water pumps and aid trucks working.

    The American humanitarian group Anera “is having difficulty distributing what we are able to bring in to the people who need it because there’s so little fuel for trucks,” its spokesperson Steve Fake said.

    Most of those fleeing Rafah have poured into a humanitarian zone declared by Israel that is centered on Muwasi, a largely barren strip of coastal land. The zone was expanded north and east to reach the edges of Khan Younis and the central town of Deir al-Balah, both of which have also filled with people.

    “As we can see, there is nothing ‘humanitarian’ about these areas,” said Suze van Meegen, head of operations in Gaza for the Norwegian Refugee Council, which has staff operating in Muwasi.

    Much of the humanitarian zone has no charity kitchens or food market, no hospitals operating, only a few field hospitals and even smaller medical tents that can’t handle emergencies, only pass out painkillers and antibiotics if they have them, according to testimony from Mercy Corps. “It’s just a matter of time before people begin to suffer greatly from food insecurity,” the group said.

    The Muwasi area is mostly coastal dunes with no water resources or sewage systems. With human waste deposited near the tents and garbage piling up, many people suffer from gastrointestinal diseases such as hepatitis and diarrhea, as well as skin allergies and lice, Mercy Corps said.

    One aid worker who fled Rafah said he was lucky and could afford to rent a house in Deir al-Balah. “You can’t walk” in the town from all the tents that have arisen, he said, speaking on condition of anonymity because his agency had not authorized him to speak.

    Many people he sees in the street are yellow with jaundice or hepatitis, and “the stench is disgusting” from the sewage and piles of garbage.

    Israel says its offensive in Rafah is vital to its war aim of destroying Hamas in Gaza after the group’s Oct. 7 attack, in which militants killed some 1,200 people and abducted around 250 others from southern Israel. Israel’s campaign in Gaza triggered by the attack has killed some 36,000 people, according to Gaza’s Health Ministry.

    Aid groups have warned for months that an attack on Rafah will worsen Gaza’s humanitarian disaster. So far, Israel’s operations have been short of its planned all-out invasion, though fighting has expanded over the past three weeks from the eastern parts of Rafah to the central districts of the city. A strike Sunday hit a tent camp in a western part of Rafah, causing a large fire and killing at least 45 people, according to health officials. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu acknowledged a “tragic mistake” had occurred.

    From the exodus the assault has caused, satellite photos shot by Planet Labs PBC on May 24 show dense new tent camps running the length of the coast from just north of Rafah to outside Deir al-Balah. The ramshackle tents and shelters are densely packed in mazes of corrugated metal and plastic sheets, blankets and bedsheets draped over wooden sticks for privacy.

    Tamer Saeed Abu’l Kheir said he goes out at 6 a.m. every day to find water, usually returning around noon to the tent outside Khan Younis where he and nearly two dozen relatives live. His three children, aged 4 to 10, are always sick, but he said he has to send them out to collect wood for the cooking fire, though he worries they’ll come across unexploded bombs in the wrecked houses.

    His aging father has trouble moving so has to use the bathroom in a bucket, and Abu’l Kheir has to regularly pay to transport him to the nearest hospital for kidney dialysis.

    “Wood costs money, water costs money, everything costs money,” said his wife, Leena Abu’l Kheir. She broke down in sobs. “I’m afraid I’ll wake up one day and I’ve lost my children, my mother, my husband, my family.”

    ___

    Magdy and Keath reported from Cairo. Associated Press correspondents Sarah El Deeb in Beirut, Fatma Khaled in Cairo and Mohammed Jahjouh in Muwasi, Gaza Strip, contributed to this report.

    ___

    Follow AP's war coverage at https://apnews.com/hub/israel-hamas-war


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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
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    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,359
    https://apnews.com/article/eu-palestinian-state-spain-israel-gaza-6efe351e53761befc2c539c535bbcc0c   Spain, Norway and Ireland formally recognize a Palestinian state as EU rift with Israel widens


     
    Spain, Norway and Ireland formally recognize a Palestinian state as EU rift with Israel widens
    By JOSEPH WILSON
    5 mins ago

    BARCELONA, Spain (AP) — Spain, Norway and Ireland formally recognized a Palestinian state on Tuesday in a coordinated effort by the three western European nations to add international pressure on Israel to soften its devastating response to last year’s Hamas-led attack. Tel Aviv slammed the diplomatic move that will have no immediate impact on its grinding war in Gaza.

    Spanish Prime Minister Pedro Sánchez told his nation in a televised address from Madrid that “this is a historic decision that has a single goal, and that is to help Israelis and Palestinians achieve peace."

    Israel’s Foreign Minister Israel Katz quickly lashed out at Spain on X, saying Sánchez's government was “being complicit in inciting genocide against Jews and war crimes.”

    Ireland and Norway soon joined Spain in formalizing a decision they had jointly announced the previous week.

    The Palestinian flag was raised in Dublin outside Leinster House, the seat of the Irish parliament.

    “This is an important moment and I think it sends a signal to the world that there are practical actions you can take as a country to help keep the hope and destination of a two-state solution alive at a time when others are trying to sadly bomb it into oblivion,” Irish Prime Minister Simon Harris said before his Cabinet meets to formally sign off on the decision.

    Norwegian Foreign Minister Espen Barth Eide said in a statement that “for more than 30 years, Norway has been one of the strongest advocates for a Palestinian state. Today, when Norway officially recognizes Palestine as a state, is a milestone in the relationship between Norway and Palestine.”

    While some 140 countries have recognized a Palestinian state — more than two-thirds of the United Nations — none of the major Western powers has done so. Still, the adherence of three European countries to the group represents a victory for Palestinian efforts in the world of public opinion, and will likely put pressure on European Union heavyweights France and Germany to rethink their position.

    Previously only seven members of the 27-nation EU officially recognized a Palestinian state. Five of them are former East bloc countries that announced recognition in 1988, as did Cyprus, before joining the EU. Sweden’s recognition came in 2014.

    Relations between the EU and Israel have nosedived with the diplomatic recognitions by two EU members, and Madrid insisting on Monday that the EU should take measures against Israel for its continued deadly attacks in southern Gaza’s city of Rafah.

    After Monday’s meeting of EU foreign ministers, Irish Foreign Minister Micheál Martin said “for the first time at an EU meeting, in a real way, I have seen a significant discussion on sanctions” on Israel.

    Harris, the Irish leader, insisted Tuesday the EU should consider economic sanctions against Israel, saying: “Europe could be doing a hell of a lot more."

    Norway, which is not an EU member but often aligns its foreign policy with the bloc, handed diplomatic papers to the Palestinian government over the weekend ahead of its formal recognition.

    At the same time, the EU’s foreign policy chief Josep Borrell threw his weight behind the International Criminal Court, whose prosecutor is seeking an arrest warrant against Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and others, including leaders of the Hamas militant group.

    The formal declaration and resulting diplomatic dispute come over seven months into an assault waged by Israel following the Oct. 7 Hamas-led attack in which militants stormed across the Gaza border into Israel, killing 1,200 people and taking some 250 hostage. Israel’s air and land attacks have killed 36,000 Palestinians, according to Gaza’s Health Ministry, which does not distinguish between combatants and civilians.

    Last week's joint announcement by Spain, Ireland and Norway triggered an angry response from Israeli authorities, which summoned the countries’ ambassadors in Tel Aviv to the Foreign Ministry, where they were filmed while being shown videos of the Oct. 7 Hamas attack and abductions.

    Slovenia’s Prime Minister Robert Golob said Monday his government will decide on the recognition of a Palestinian state on Thursday and forward its decision to parliament for final approval.

    The United States and Britain, among others, back the idea of an independent Palestinian state alongside Israel but say it should come as part of a negotiated settlement. Netanyahu’s government says the conflict can only be resolved through direct negotiations.

    In his speech on Tuesday, Sánchez said that the recognition of a Palestinian state was “a decision that we do not adopt against anyone, least of all against Israel, a friendly people whom we respect, whom we appreciate and with whom we want to have the best possible relationship.”

    The Socialist leader has spent months touring European and Middle Eastern countries, including stops in Oslo and Dublin, to garner support for the recognition of a Palestinian state. He called for a permanent cease-fire, for stepping up humanitarian aid into Gaza and for the release of hostages still held by Hamas.

    Spain’s foreign minister, José Manuel Albares, will meet with a group of U.S.-allied Middle Eastern countries in Spain’s capital on Wednesday, and Palestinian Prime Minister Mohammad Mustafa, Qatari Prime Minister Sheikh Mohammed bin Abdulrahman Al Thani, and the foreign ministers of Saudi Arabia, Turkey and Jordan.

    Sánchez said that his intention was to back the beleaguered Palestinian Authority, which lost effective political control of Gaza to Hamas. He laid out his vision for a state ruled by the Palestinian Authority that must connect the West Bank and Gaza via a corridor with east Jerusalem as its capital.

    The Western-backed Palestinian Authority administers parts of the Israeli-occupied West Bank, cooperates with Israel on security matters and favors a negotiated two-state solution. Its forces were driven out of Gaza by Hamas when the militants seized power there in 2007.

    The Palestinians have long sought an independent state in Gaza, the West Bank and east Jerusalem, territories Israel captured in the 1967 Mideast war. The idea of a land corridor linking Gaza and the West Bank through Israel was discussed in previous rounds of peace talks, but no serious or substantive peace negotiations have been held in over 15 years.

    “We will not recognize changes in the 1967 border lines other than those agreed to by the parties,” Sánchez added.

    “Furthermore, this decision reflects our absolute rejection of Hamas, a terrorist organization who is against the two-state solution,” Sánchez said. “From the outset, Spain has strongly condemned the terrorist attacks of Oct. 7. This clear condemnation is the resounding expression of our steadfast commitment in the fight against terrorism. I would like to underline that starting tomorrow we would focus all our efforts to implement the two-state solution and make it a reality.”

    Ireland’s government said it will appoint an ambassador and create a full embassy in Ramallah in the West Bank. Norway will upgrade its diplomatic office in the West Bank to an embassy. Spain said that for the moment it will maintain its consulate in Jerusalem, although Israel has said that the consulate won’t be allowed to attend to Palestinians.

    Norway’s Barth Eide added Tuesday that “it is regrettable that the Israeli government shows no signs of engaging constructively.”

    “The recognition is a strong expression of support for moderate forces in both countries,” Norway’s top diplomat said.

    ___

    Associated Press writers Melanie Lidman in Tel Aviv, Israel, Jill Lawless in London, Jan M. Olsen in Copenhagen, Denmark and Raf Casert in Brussels contributed to this report.

    ___

    Follow AP's Israel-Hamas coverage at https://apnews.com/hub/israel-hamas-war


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    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
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  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,458
    Europe is always ahead of the curve. 
    Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall




  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,846
    pjl44 said:
    Israel is fighting an urban war against an enemy that uses civilian buildings and treats civilians like human shields. There are bound to be horrific results but it is not remotely a genocide.
    yeah, really sucks to be bound by ethics, even in war. Israeli government has no such ethics. 

    I fully agree that this is horrible war and I very much support a cease fire, but humor me for a second.

    Let's just say you live in the United States, and you were harboring terrorists in your home who just killed 1500 people, what would the chances be that you're home, your town, would still be standing in a week?
  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,523
    pjl44 said:
    Israel is fighting an urban war against an enemy that uses civilian buildings and treats civilians like human shields. There are bound to be horrific results but it is not remotely a genocide.
    yeah, really sucks to be bound by ethics, even in war. Israeli government has no such ethics. 

    I fully agree that this is horrible war and I very much support a cease fire, but humor me for a second.

    Let's just say you live in the United States, and you were harboring terrorists in your home who just killed 1500 people, what would the chances be that you're home, your town, would still be standing in a week?
    Yeah, if the Belgian military went in and slaughtered 5,000 German citizens that would be an "oh fuck" moment for the Belgian populace
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,458
    pjl44 said:
    Israel is fighting an urban war against an enemy that uses civilian buildings and treats civilians like human shields. There are bound to be horrific results but it is not remotely a genocide.
    yeah, really sucks to be bound by ethics, even in war. Israeli government has no such ethics. 

    I fully agree that this is horrible war and I very much support a cease fire, but humor me for a second.

    Let's just say you live in the United States, and you were harboring terrorists in your home who just killed 1500 people, what would the chances be that you're home, your town, would still be standing in a week?
    there is one big flaw with your supposition. of course my house wouldn't be standing if it were just me and the terrorist. But if my home was filled with hundreds of thousands of people, women, children, innocent men, who had nothing to do with said harboring, I'd hope the US government wouldn't just bomb the shit out of all of us, but would try to find a better solution. 

    how many Palestinian civilian casualties is acceptable with you folks? it should be zero. but clearly it's not even thousands. 

    Hugh Freaking Dillon is currently out of the office, returning sometime in the fall




  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,523
    pjl44 said:
    Israel is fighting an urban war against an enemy that uses civilian buildings and treats civilians like human shields. There are bound to be horrific results but it is not remotely a genocide.
    yeah, really sucks to be bound by ethics, even in war. Israeli government has no such ethics. 

    I fully agree that this is horrible war and I very much support a cease fire, but humor me for a second.

    Let's just say you live in the United States, and you were harboring terrorists in your home who just killed 1500 people, what would the chances be that you're home, your town, would still be standing in a week?
    there is one big flaw with your supposition. of course my house wouldn't be standing if it were just me and the terrorist. But if my home was filled with hundreds of thousands of people, women, children, innocent men, who had nothing to do with said harboring, I'd hope the US government wouldn't just bomb the shit out of all of us, but would try to find a better solution. 

    how many Palestinian civilian casualties is acceptable with you folks? it should be zero. but clearly it's not even thousands. 

    Note that in the scenario you yourself concocted, a terrorist is embedding amongst thousands of innocent civilians
  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,523
    If your own hypothetical is using human shields as a given, it's giving up the game
  • cincybearcat
    cincybearcat Posts: 16,826
    pjl44 said:
    Israel is fighting an urban war against an enemy that uses civilian buildings and treats civilians like human shields. There are bound to be horrific results but it is not remotely a genocide.
    yeah, really sucks to be bound by ethics, even in war. Israeli government has no such ethics. 

    I fully agree that this is horrible war and I very much support a cease fire, but humor me for a second.

    Let's just say you live in the United States, and you were harboring terrorists in your home who just killed 1500 people, what would the chances be that you're home, your town, would still be standing in a week?
    there is one big flaw with your supposition. of course my house wouldn't be standing if it were just me and the terrorist. But if my home was filled with hundreds of thousands of people, women, children, innocent men, who had nothing to do with said harboring, I'd hope the US government wouldn't just bomb the shit out of all of us, but would try to find a better solution. 

    how many Palestinian civilian casualties is acceptable with you folks? it should be zero. but clearly it's not even thousands. 

    How does 1 answer your last question? I mean, I do t think any of us here want any civilian casualties. To expect or demand as much during a war is just not reasonable though. Especially against an enemy that purposely puts civilians in harms way and purposely attacked civilians. 


    hippiemom = goodness
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,359
    flaw in the premise about harboring. as if the general population has any power over those with the guns. 

    second unmentioned thing is since a plurality voted them in, there has been no other election to vote them out.
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  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,523
    mickeyrat said:
    flaw in the premise about harboring. as if the general population has any power over those with the guns. 

    second unmentioned thing is since a plurality voted them in, there has been no other election to vote them out.
    For the record, I don't like the "voted them in" argument because it's typically used as a way to imply or outright accuse the Palestinian people of being complicit. Don't like it for the exact reason you stated and several others.
  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,359
    pjl44 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    flaw in the premise about harboring. as if the general population has any power over those with the guns. 

    second unmentioned thing is since a plurality voted them in, there has been no other election to vote them out.
    For the record, I don't like the "voted them in" argument because it's typically used as a way to imply or outright accuse the Palestinian people of being complicit. Don't like it for the exact reason you stated and several others.

    but you cant deny an election got them "governing" power.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • pjl44
    pjl44 Posts: 10,523
    mickeyrat said:
    pjl44 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    flaw in the premise about harboring. as if the general population has any power over those with the guns. 

    second unmentioned thing is since a plurality voted them in, there has been no other election to vote them out.
    For the record, I don't like the "voted them in" argument because it's typically used as a way to imply or outright accuse the Palestinian people of being complicit. Don't like it for the exact reason you stated and several others.

    but you cant deny an election got them "governing" power.
    Oh of course. I guess it's just the "and thus...." where I brace myself.
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 42,077
    Hamas was elected in 2006, in elections that were deemed fair by UN and other international observers, during Shrubs big proclamation of the “real” reason for the Iraq war was to spread democracy in the Middle East. Immediately after Hamas was elected, they were immediately disavowed, rejected and branded a terrorist organization worthy of sanctions, rejection, and condemnation, not worthy of recognition or engagement by the western powers, US, UK, EU, etc. As it turns out, much at the behest of Israel as a means to prevent a united front for a two state solution. Talk about hypocrisy and delusion?

    My house would hoard terrorists if my house were located in an area surrounded by enemies, cut off from the outside world with no freedom of movement and the generation of youth growing up with the same depravity inflicted upon the residents of Gaza for 18+ years. Let’s not pretend that Israel has been civil to their neighbours for decades and that what happened on October 7th is because of the freedom and respect we enjoy in the US was afforded to Palestinians. Humour me.

    And why the “1,500” number as opposed to the more accurate 1,200, in this “humour me” context?
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