It'd be interesting to see how seating would look without a GA section - would we truly see seating upgrades compared to 10, 20 years ago. Premium pushed some seating back, but taking half an arena's floor up pushes everyone back substantially.
If they continue to do 2 dates per city, keep the seating experiment going: - Do one night with a full floor GA and only sell PJ Premium in that section to get that $$$ without impacting reserved seats on the wings/back - Make the second night all Res seats, kill the GA section to push all 10c members closer
30 year member should be in first side section, first few rows, no? Unless they save some of those rows for Premium to open up, which would suck.
I'm in 25 years and seats were better in the first 5 years in comparison to the last 20.
I am lost, I'm no guide, but I'm by your side
06.27.98 Alpine Valley 10.08.00 Alpine Valley 09.23.02 Chicago 06.18.03 Chicago | 06.21.03 Alpine Valley 10.03.04 Grand Rapids 10.05.05 Chicago 05.16.06 Chicago | 05.17.06 Chicago | 06.29.06 Milwaukee 08.02.07 Chicago | 08.05.07 Chicago 08.23.09 Chicago | 08.24.09 Chicago 05.07.10 Noblesville | 05.09.10 Cleveland 09.03.11 Alpine Valley | 09.04.11 Alpine Valley 07.19.13 Chicago 10.17.14 Moline 08.20.16 Chicago 08.18.18 Chicago 09.18.22 St. Louis 09.05.23 Chicago
Another point I got is maybe they felt general admission tickets were being worked a little bit multiple fan club is putting in for them with the higher numbers and then using their lower numbers for seats? I feel that this option has added more fairness, and frankly is a benefit to members with seniority on any other tour without as many tickets especially the Chicago shows if you put it in for GA and didn’t get it you likely weren’t going to get tickets for the show plus another thing is some of the big shows of years past like Madison Square Garden in Philly and others. The odds of GA were down under 20%. So I’m looking at it from the thought that members with low numbers can relax and put them in for GA maybe they’ll get it maybe not but also get their seat
I agree with this, I think this option is the most fair way to handle GA.
30 year member should be in first side section, first few rows, no? Unless they save some of those rows for Premium to open up, which would suck.
I'm in 25 years and seats were better in the first 5 years in comparison to the last 20.
I can't really remember where my seats were the first few tours (2000, 2003, 2006), but I'm guessing they were pretty good. For about the last 15 years they've been about the same for me. The best one may have been Universal City 2009
I'm really surprised there isn't more traction/comments on this issue. The Ten Club essentially forced a lot more of their tickets into the hands of the members who may or may not want them because they were just looking for GA. I think it's a fairly big deal, but I guess many can't really see the ramifications and connections.
I think a lot of people’s disappointment with their seat location is based on the assumption that they’d have a decent seat even with a bad number clashing with ignoring the level of demand combined with way more seats being allocated to the 10c. Reflecting on your 2013 seats and saying they were pretty good, and thinking now it’s 10 years later so they’ll be that much better is setting yourself up. The people who complained that they got shut out of past shows are now complaining that they have crap seats.
Priority 5 - St. Louis RESERVED - WON - 99% odds
It never sat well with me I lost STL in 2020 as my 3rd priority (selected GA and Reserved). Is the 2020 lottery info in your My Tickets section (mine isn't), or did you go back to your Ticketstoday email?
I went to my original email from Tickets Today. It actually showed the odds, which was surprising. That is strange that you didn't get reserved tickets being that they had 99% odds. That's some bad luck.
30 year member should be in first side section, first few rows, no? Unless they save some of those rows for Premium to open up, which would suck.
I'm in 25 years and seats were better in the first 5 years in comparison to the last 20.
Isn't this just math and probability? More members = lower probability
I say this without knowing how the fan club has grown, but just based on longevity its a pretty safe assumption.
I'm going to assume F2F intro year had the biggest effect recently. Now with a resale option those with enough of a credit limit can just go for EVERY show. I'm certainly going for more now. Why wouldn't you? Add in that you can transfer in NY and Chi? Everyone should go for MSG. There is virtually no risk now.
We asked and received this option. This is one of the effects.
30 year member should be in first side section, first few rows, no? Unless they save some of those rows for Premium to open up, which would suck.
I'm in 25 years and seats were better in the first 5 years in comparison to the last 20.
Isn't this just math and probability? More members = lower probability
I say this without knowing how the fan club has grown, but just based on longevity its a pretty safe assumption.
The theory you should move up in seniority and better seating unknowingly since people do not renew over the years. Premium has def changed this now.
Another thing to consider is GA now pushes all the good seats to the wings and first rows of the floor. In the past the best seats were on the floor up close to the stage so if you were getting wing seats then you are obviously pushed back even more in the lower bowl now.
30 year member should be in first side section, first few rows, no? Unless they save some of those rows for Premium to open up, which would suck.
I'm in 25 years and seats were better in the first 5 years in comparison to the last 20.
Isn't this just math and probability? More members = lower probability
I say this without knowing how the fan club has grown, but just based on longevity its a pretty safe assumption.
Lower probability of scoring tickets sure, but seats shouldn't be pushed back because of new members, not if they're allocated based on seniority in the fan club.
30 year member should be in first side section, first few rows, no? Unless they save some of those rows for Premium to open up, which would suck.
I'm in 25 years and seats were better in the first 5 years in comparison to the last 20.
I can't really remember where my seats were the first few tours (2000, 2003, 2006), but I'm guessing they were pretty good. For about the last 15 years they've been about the same for me. The best one may have been Universal City 2009
I can tell you for sure that those three tours my seats were front row! Jones beach,MSG, New Jersey shows.
30 year member should be in first side section, first few rows, no? Unless they save some of those rows for Premium to open up, which would suck.
I'm in 25 years and seats were better in the first 5 years in comparison to the last 20.
Isn't this just math and probability? More members = lower probability
I say this without knowing how the fan club has grown, but just based on longevity its a pretty safe assumption.
The theory you should move up in seniority and better seating unknowingly since people do not renew over the years. Premium has def changed this now.
Another thing to consider is GA now pushes all the good seats to the wings and first rows of the floor. In the past the best seats were on the floor up close to the stage so if you were getting wing seats then you are obviously pushed back even more in the lower bowl now.
Good point about GA. But as demand has risen over the years, can we assume that more people ahead of you are also entering each year? Especially now with f2f. Something to consider.
GA pushes everyone back, having fewer shows mean a higher percentage of overall members are selecting each show and pushes everyone back, more ten club seating overall means a higher percentage of winners and pushes everyone back, and of course premium seats pushes everyone back.
Also, in those early years, we could only choose one show. So, there was just much fewer club seats and therefore our seats were a lot better.
GA pushes everyone back, having fewer shows mean a higher percentage of overall members are selecting each show and pushes everyone back, more ten club seating overall means a higher percentage of winners and pushes everyone back, and of course premium seats pushes everyone back.
Also, in those early years, we could only choose one show. So, there was just much fewer club seats and therefore our seats were a lot better.
I'll bet good $ F2F also pushes people back. More entries since they can now unload tix.
I entered Chicago with late priority with no expectation of winning, but as a backup in case the higher priority shows didn't work out. Zero risk since I can transfer. Pending re-assignment of course.......but you have to assume I pushed people back.
GA pushes everyone back, having fewer shows mean a higher percentage of overall members are selecting each show and pushes everyone back, more ten club seating overall means a higher percentage of winners and pushes everyone back, and of course premium seats pushes everyone back.
Also, in those early years, we could only choose one show. So, there was just much fewer club seats and therefore our seats were a lot better.
I'll bet good $ F2F also pushes people back. More entries since they can now unload tix.
I entered Chicago with late priority with no expectation of winning, but as a backup in case the higher priority shows didn't work out. Zero risk since I can transfer. Pending re-assignment of course.......but you have to assume I pushed people back.
Will Call only definitely scared people away from putting in for shows they were not sure on. This resulted in less people in the pool for seats for sure. Now people can put in with no financial repercussions if they no longer can go.
GA pushes everyone back, having fewer shows mean a higher percentage of overall members are selecting each show and pushes everyone back, more ten club seating overall means a higher percentage of winners and pushes everyone back, and of course premium seats pushes everyone back.
Also, in those early years, we could only choose one show. So, there was just much fewer club seats and therefore our seats were a lot better.
I'll bet good $ F2F also pushes people back. More entries since they can now unload tix.
I entered Chicago with late priority with no expectation of winning, but as a backup in case the higher priority shows didn't work out. Zero risk since I can transfer. Pending re-assignment of course.......but you have to assume I pushed people back.
GA pushes everyone back, having fewer shows mean a higher percentage of overall members are selecting each show and pushes everyone back, more ten club seating overall means a higher percentage of winners and pushes everyone back, and of course premium seats pushes everyone back.
Also, in those early years, we could only choose one show. So, there was just much fewer club seats and therefore our seats were a lot better.
I'll bet good $ F2F also pushes people back. More entries since they can now unload tix.
I entered Chicago with late priority with no expectation of winning, but as a backup in case the higher priority shows didn't work out. Zero risk since I can transfer. Pending re-assignment of course.......but you have to assume I pushed people back.
Will Call only definitely scared people away from putting in for shows they were not sure on. This resulted in less people in the pool for seats for sure. Now people can put in with no financial repercussions if they no longer can go.
30 year member should be in first side section, first few rows, no? Unless they save some of those rows for Premium to open up, which would suck.
I'm in 25 years and seats were better in the first 5 years in comparison to the last 20.
I can't really remember where my seats were the first few tours (2000, 2003, 2006), but I'm guessing they were pretty good. For about the last 15 years they've been about the same for me. The best one may have been Universal City 2009
I can tell you for sure that those three tours my seats were front row! Jones beach,MSG, New Jersey shows.
Dang, sounds awesome. But you have like a 30xxx number don't you? I just remembered in 2000, my first 10c show, was pretty good.maybe 10 or so rows back. I remember because this hot girl snuck into to the seat next to me the last few songs. She didn't want me to complain, so she was really flirty and put her arms around me for the slow songs. It worked.
Too bad there was no Craigslist missed connections in 2000.
30 year member should be in first side section, first few rows, no? Unless they save some of those rows for Premium to open up, which would suck.
I'm in 25 years and seats were better in the first 5 years in comparison to the last 20.
I can't really remember where my seats were the first few tours (2000, 2003, 2006), but I'm guessing they were pretty good. For about the last 15 years they've been about the same for me. The best one may have been Universal City 2009
I can tell you for sure that those three tours my seats were front row! Jones beach,MSG, New Jersey shows.
Dang, sounds awesome. But you have like a 30xxx number don't you? I just remembered in 2000, my first 10c show, was pretty good.maybe 10 or so rows back. I remember because this hot girl snuck into to the seat next to me the last few songs. She didn't want me to complain, so she was really flirty and put her arms around me for the slow songs. It worked.
Too bad there was no Craigslist missed connections in 2000.
I was like 2/3 back on the floor in my first 10c show in 2000, but it was Chicago so it was a popular choice. No hot girls wrapping their arms around me either.
I guess the little bit of progress my 20 years of seniority should have gained through attrition above me has been eaten up with each decision they've made along the way - lottery rows, adding GA, removing the GA only option, removing risk by creating F2F, adding Premium seats, etc.
It makes sense, but it's kind of a shame that I've naively kept the membership fathfully for so long with the hopes that I would keep creeping closer to the stage instead of farther away.
If I knew back in 2003 that I essentially would never get any closer/better with my fan club seats over the next 20 years would I have kept it up? Not sure.
The only people we should try to get even with...
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
30 year member should be in first side section, first few rows, no? Unless they save some of those rows for Premium to open up, which would suck.
I'm in 25 years and seats were better in the first 5 years in comparison to the last 20.
I can't really remember where my seats were the first few tours (2000, 2003, 2006), but I'm guessing they were pretty good. For about the last 15 years they've been about the same for me. The best one may have been Universal City 2009
I can tell you for sure that those three tours my seats were front row! Jones beach,MSG, New Jersey shows.
Dang, sounds awesome. But you have like a 30xxx number don't you? I just remembered in 2000, my first 10c show, was pretty good.maybe 10 or so rows back. I remember because this hot girl snuck into to the seat next to me the last few songs. She didn't want me to complain, so she was really flirty and put her arms around me for the slow songs. It worked.
Too bad there was no Craigslist missed connections in 2000.
Below 30k but I’ve never had a girl put her arms around me 🤨
I guess the little bit of progress my 20 years of seniority should have gained through attrition above me has been eaten up with each decision they've made along the way - lottery rows, adding GA, removing the GA only option, removing risk by creating F2F, adding Premium seats, etc.
It makes sense, but it's kind of a shame that I've naively kept the membership fathfully for so long with the hopes that I would keep creeping closer to the stage instead of farther away.
If I knew back in 2003 that I essentially would never get any closer/better with my fan club seats over the next 20 years would I have kept it up? Not sure.
In retrospect (also a member since '03), it's still not been that bad considering the price I pay for other acts to be remotely close to the stage.
While seniority hasn't done much on its own, putting in a little effort for GA position and monitoring F2F drops - as well as luck with winning a lottery row & getting into the Vic fanclub show - it's been okay. The only way to get more people upgraded and closer is to go back to older formats, limit the number of shows you can get, and reduce the pool of tickets set aside for 10c.
I guess the little bit of progress my 20 years of seniority should have gained through attrition above me has been eaten up with each decision they've made along the way - lottery rows, adding GA, removing the GA only option, removing risk by creating F2F, adding Premium seats, etc.
It makes sense, but it's kind of a shame that I've naively kept the membership fathfully for so long with the hopes that I would keep creeping closer to the stage instead of farther away.
If I knew back in 2003 that I essentially would never get any closer/better with my fan club seats over the next 20 years would I have kept it up? Not sure.
This is pretty much spot on for the way I view it also. I also think if I dropped my membership back then........how much money I would have saved on buying 10C only items..........hmmmm.
Post edited by Kevinman on
I am lost, I'm no guide, but I'm by your side
06.27.98 Alpine Valley 10.08.00 Alpine Valley 09.23.02 Chicago 06.18.03 Chicago | 06.21.03 Alpine Valley 10.03.04 Grand Rapids 10.05.05 Chicago 05.16.06 Chicago | 05.17.06 Chicago | 06.29.06 Milwaukee 08.02.07 Chicago | 08.05.07 Chicago 08.23.09 Chicago | 08.24.09 Chicago 05.07.10 Noblesville | 05.09.10 Cleveland 09.03.11 Alpine Valley | 09.04.11 Alpine Valley 07.19.13 Chicago 10.17.14 Moline 08.20.16 Chicago 08.18.18 Chicago 09.18.22 St. Louis 09.05.23 Chicago
30 year member should be in first side section, first few rows, no? Unless they save some of those rows for Premium to open up, which would suck.
I'm in 25 years and seats were better in the first 5 years in comparison to the last 20.
Isn't this just math and probability? More members = lower probability
I say this without knowing how the fan club has grown, but just based on longevity its a pretty safe assumption.
I'm going to assume F2F intro year had the biggest effect recently. Now with a resale option those with enough of a credit limit can just go for EVERY show. I'm certainly going for more now. Why wouldn't you? Add in that you can transfer in NY and Chi? Everyone should go for MSG. There is virtually no risk now.
We asked and received this option. This is one of the effects.
30 year member should be in first side section, first few rows, no? Unless they save some of those rows for Premium to open up, which would suck.
I'm in 25 years and seats were better in the first 5 years in comparison to the last 20.
Isn't this just math and probability? More members = lower probability
I say this without knowing how the fan club has grown, but just based on longevity its a pretty safe assumption.
I'm going to assume F2F intro year had the biggest effect recently. Now with a resale option those with enough of a credit limit can just go for EVERY show. I'm certainly going for more now. Why wouldn't you? Add in that you can transfer in NY and Chi? Everyone should go for MSG. There is virtually no risk now.
We asked and received this option. This is one of the effects.
This is an excellent point
It is, and probably the single biggest factor to the seats getting pushed back.
98: St. Louis. 2000: Alpine. 2003: Chicago. 2006: Chicago Night 2, Milwaukee Night 1. 2007: Chicago (Lolla). 2009: Chicago 1 & 2. 2011: Alpine 1 & 2. 2013: Chicago & LA Night 1. 2016: Chicago 1 & 2. 2018: Chicago 1 & 2.
I guess the little bit of progress my 20 years of seniority should have gained through attrition above me has been eaten up with each decision they've made along the way - lottery rows, adding GA, removing the GA only option, removing risk by creating F2F, adding Premium seats, etc.
It makes sense, but it's kind of a shame that I've naively kept the membership fathfully for so long with the hopes that I would keep creeping closer to the stage instead of farther away.
If I knew back in 2003 that I essentially would never get any closer/better with my fan club seats over the next 20 years would I have kept it up? Not sure.
Just have 3 options 1. GA Only 2. GA/Reserved 3. Reserved Only
Then youre not forcing people to buy tickets they dont want. Not having GA only moves people to res that dont want them and pushes me, who wants res, further back
Here is why it is not optimal to remove the GA only. Some (most?) of us are travelling from out of town. Last tour, I got GA for LA2 for the first time. A friend of mine who is a casual fan was up for going (because I had the killer tickets) and we did a week in California (added San Diego show).
My fan club number is so-so, so I am not getting any reserved seats that are going to get any friends to spend the $$ to travel. If I get GA, I can use them with a friend or swap 1 with someone on here for another show. I am totally cool getting shutout for fan club tickets if I put GA only. No problem. I promise not to cry about it.
Every single pair that someone puts on F2F because they didn't really want seats is a pair that could have been used for other fans to be closer.
Comments
If they continue to do 2 dates per city, keep the seating experiment going:
- Do one night with a full floor GA and only sell PJ Premium in that section to get that $$$ without impacting reserved seats on the wings/back
- Make the second night all Res seats, kill the GA section to push all 10c members closer
10.08.00 Alpine Valley
09.23.02 Chicago
06.18.03 Chicago | 06.21.03 Alpine Valley
10.03.04 Grand Rapids
10.05.05 Chicago
05.16.06 Chicago | 05.17.06 Chicago | 06.29.06 Milwaukee
08.02.07 Chicago | 08.05.07 Chicago
08.23.09 Chicago | 08.24.09 Chicago
05.07.10 Noblesville | 05.09.10 Cleveland
09.03.11 Alpine Valley | 09.04.11 Alpine Valley
07.19.13 Chicago
10.17.14 Moline
08.20.16 Chicago
08.18.18 Chicago
09.18.22 St. Louis
09.05.23 Chicago
I say this without knowing how the fan club has grown, but just based on longevity its a pretty safe assumption.
I'm going to assume F2F intro year had the biggest effect recently. Now with a resale option those with enough of a credit limit can just go for EVERY show. I'm certainly going for more now. Why wouldn't you? Add in that you can transfer in NY and Chi? Everyone should go for MSG. There is virtually no risk now.
We asked and received this option. This is one of the effects.
Another thing to consider is GA now pushes all the good seats to the wings and first rows of the floor. In the past the best seats were on the floor up close to the stage so if you were getting wing seats then you are obviously pushed back even more in the lower bowl now.
Lower probability of scoring tickets sure, but seats shouldn't be pushed back because of new members, not if they're allocated based on seniority in the fan club.
I entered Chicago with late priority with no expectation of winning, but as a backup in case the higher priority shows didn't work out. Zero risk since I can transfer. Pending re-assignment of course.......but you have to assume I pushed people back.
I just remembered in 2000, my first 10c show, was pretty good.maybe 10 or so rows back.
I remember because this hot girl snuck into to the seat next to me the last few songs. She didn't want me to complain, so she was really flirty and put her arms around me for the slow songs. It worked.
Too bad there was no Craigslist missed connections in 2000.
It makes sense, but it's kind of a shame that I've naively kept the membership fathfully for so long with the hopes that I would keep creeping closer to the stage instead of farther away.
If I knew back in 2003 that I essentially would never get any closer/better with my fan club seats over the next 20 years would I have kept it up? Not sure.
...are those who've helped us.
Right 'round the corner could be bigger than ourselves.
While seniority hasn't done much on its own, putting in a little effort for GA position and monitoring F2F drops - as well as luck with winning a lottery row & getting into the Vic fanclub show - it's been okay. The only way to get more people upgraded and closer is to go back to older formats, limit the number of shows you can get, and reduce the pool of tickets set aside for 10c.
10.08.00 Alpine Valley
09.23.02 Chicago
06.18.03 Chicago | 06.21.03 Alpine Valley
10.03.04 Grand Rapids
10.05.05 Chicago
05.16.06 Chicago | 05.17.06 Chicago | 06.29.06 Milwaukee
08.02.07 Chicago | 08.05.07 Chicago
08.23.09 Chicago | 08.24.09 Chicago
05.07.10 Noblesville | 05.09.10 Cleveland
09.03.11 Alpine Valley | 09.04.11 Alpine Valley
07.19.13 Chicago
10.17.14 Moline
08.20.16 Chicago
08.18.18 Chicago
09.18.22 St. Louis
09.05.23 Chicago
"Let the Ocean dissolve away my past."
https://community.pearljam.com/discussion/268669/member-number-question/p4
I guess the better question for these conversations is "how many ticket requests were there vs active members?"
1. GA Only
2. GA/Reserved
3. Reserved Only
Then youre not forcing people to buy tickets they dont want. Not having GA only moves people to res that dont want them and pushes me, who wants res, further back
My fan club number is so-so, so I am not getting any reserved seats that are going to get any friends to spend the $$ to travel. If I get GA, I can use them with a friend or swap 1 with someone on here for another show. I am totally cool getting shutout for fan club tickets if I put GA only. No problem. I promise not to cry about it.
Every single pair that someone puts on F2F because they didn't really want seats is a pair that could have been used for other fans to be closer.