Official 2023 Ticket Lottery Results Thread

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Comments

  • regalturboregalturbo Posts: 299


    I just got the same email! ;)
  • Go AnimalGo Animal Posts: 6,023
    I just got my Noblesville rejection. Doesn't say my name, just "Bill Buttlicker"
    PJ - 09/23/98: West Palm Beach II, 08/12/00: Tampa, 04/12/03: Orlando, 04/13/03: Tampa, 06/12/08: Tampa, 06/27/08: Hartford, 09/22/09: Seattle II, 04/11/16: Tampa, 05/01 & 05/02/16: MSG I & II, 09/18/21: Sea Hear Now, 10/01 & 10/02/21: Ohana Encore I & II, 05/06 & 05/07/22: Los Angeles I & II, 09/11/22: MSG, 09/16/22: Nashville, 09/02/23: St. Paul II, 09/07/23: Chicago II, 09/18 & 09/19/23: Austin I & II, 05/16 & 05/18/24: Las Vegas I & II, 08/29 & 08/31/24: Wrigley Field I & II, 09/03 & 09/04/24: MSG I & II, 09/27 & 09/29/24: Ohana Festival I & II

    EV - 08/04 & 08/05/08: (Eddie solo, w/Liam Finn) NYC I & II, 11/27 & 11/28/12: (Eddie solo, w/Glen Hansard) Orlando I & II, 02/09 & 02/10/22: (Eddie & the Earthlings) Chicago I & II, 09/30/23: (Eddie & the Earthlings) Ohana Festival

    Song Wishlist: Oceans, Brother, Alone, Let Me Sleep, full W.M.A., Hold On, Bugs/all of Vitalogy, Gremmie Out Of Control (BAM!), Mankind, Around The Bend (full band), Whale Song (DOUBLE BAM!), The Long Road, Don't Gimme No Lip, Pilate, Push Me Pull Me, All Those Yesterdays, Rival, Parting Ways, Ghost, Bu$hleaguer, WWS, Parachutes, Army Reserve, low octave Driftin', Strangest Tribe, Other Side, Undone, Fatal, Hitchhiker, Education, Black Red Yellow, Of the Earth, Love Reign O'er Me, Gonna See My Friend, Amongst the Waves, Santa Cruz, Infallible, Yellow Moon, Alright, Comes Then Goes, Got to Give, and the Mamasan Trilogy.

    Wanted Posters: WPB '98, Tampa/WPB '00, Tampa '03, EV Batmobile '08        ISO: any picks, or setlists from any of my shows!
  • SaravaSarava Naperville, IL Posts: 2,041
    Manu117 said:
    JBob87 said:
    Manu117 said:
    Red 81 said:
    Manu117 said:
    RVMMFC said:
    bbiggs said:
    Still trying to wrap my head around - and there will never be an answer - how folks had Reserved Chicago as a third and fourth option and got seats but many people had them as 1 or 2 and didn’t.  Mind boggling.
    It is unexplainable despite the fact that many are trying to do so.


    Its a lottery, so someone could get chosen for all nine shows and get all their choices whereas others who had entered get nothing - simple as that.

    Where the show was in your order only matters if you actually got picked
    This.

    It's a lottery. 

    If 1000 people requested tickets for Chicago N1 and they only had 500, then 500 people are outta luck. It seems priority might only increase your odds of winning (how much, we don't know), but it doesn't guarantee anything.

    And so on and so forth for each show.

    That's how someone could get lucky 5 times and get tickets for 5 shows, and someone else might get unlucky and get nothing. 
    by that logic, priority has nothing to do with it. Its essentially a completely random lottery. and it comes down to your number drawn or not. 
    Exactly. DMB lotteries works the same way. You can assign priority to a single show to increase your chances, but it doesn't guarantee you'll get it. 
    Literally no one is saying that assigning something as Priority 1 guarantees you will get it
    There are literally countless posts exclaiming disbelief that someone could get tickets with their third or fourth pick for a show someone else didn't get with their first or second pick. 
    You're saying something different than he is. We all know we could lose out on priority #1 - but that was expected to be because there were more priority #1 entries than there was available inventory. That has happened many times in ten club sales. What hasnt happened is losing out to people with lower priorities - as seems to be happening in sizable numbers this sale.
  • jimjam1982jimjam1982 AZ Posts: 1,434
    edited April 2023
    https://pearljam.com/ten-club/event/pearl-jam-2023-us-tour-presale

    In the PRESALE RULES section...

    Ticket requests will be confirmed for each show taking your priority into consideration, but it is not guaranteed you will get your first priority.

    I don't recall it written this way in the past.
    Exactly. If 10000 people requested the same show as P1 and there are 9000 tickets available then 9000 people win and 1000 lose. It doesn't mean you slide P2 amd P3 in. That's not how it ever worked
  • Red 81Red 81 Posts: 29
    JBob87 said:
    Manu117 said:
    Red 81 said:
    Manu117 said:
    RVMMFC said:
    bbiggs said:
    Still trying to wrap my head around - and there will never be an answer - how folks had Reserved Chicago as a third and fourth option and got seats but many people had them as 1 or 2 and didn’t.  Mind boggling.
    It is unexplainable despite the fact that many are trying to do so.


    Its a lottery, so someone could get chosen for all nine shows and get all their choices whereas others who had entered get nothing - simple as that.

    Where the show was in your order only matters if you actually got picked
    This.

    It's a lottery. 

    If 1000 people requested tickets for Chicago N1 and they only had 500, then 500 people are outta luck. It seems priority might only increase your odds of winning (how much, we don't know), but it doesn't guarantee anything.

    And so on and so forth for each show.

    That's how someone could get lucky 5 times and get tickets for 5 shows, and someone else might get unlucky and get nothing. 
    by that logic, priority has nothing to do with it. Its essentially a completely random lottery. and it comes down to your number drawn or not. 
    Exactly. DMB lotteries works the same way. You can assign priority to a single show to increase your chances, but it doesn't guarantee you'll get it. 
    Literally no one is saying that assigning something as Priority 1 guarantees you will get it
    Right if you have 15000 p1 requests and 10000 available tickets... then no, but really "Should be" if P1 requests equal less then available tickets then chance should be assured.. thats how you can get odds for each show by priority.. 
    This, which essentially means that people get their P1 shows, which is the most important. I imagine that most if not all fans would be fine losing out to other fans that had P1 and essentially demand outweighed availability. Thats why you have a priority, so at least most get their first and 2nd picks. seeing fans getting tickets for P3 and P4 ahead of P1 and P2 is a broken system. 
  • Red 81Red 81 Posts: 29
    Sarava said:
    Manu117 said:
    Sarava said:
    Manu117 said:
    RVMMFC said:
    bbiggs said:
    Still trying to wrap my head around - and there will never be an answer - how folks had Reserved Chicago as a third and fourth option and got seats but many people had them as 1 or 2 and didn’t.  Mind boggling.
    It is unexplainable despite the fact that many are trying to do so.


    Its a lottery, so someone could get chosen for all nine shows and get all their choices whereas others who had entered get nothing - simple as that.

    Where the show was in your order only matters if you actually got picked
    This.

    It's a lottery. 

    If 1000 people requested tickets for Chicago N1 and they only had 500, then 500 people are outta luck. It seems priority might only increase your odds of winning (how much, we don't know), but it doesn't guarantee anything.

    And so on and so forth for each show.

    That's how someone could get lucky 5 times and get tickets for 5 shows, and someone else might get unlucky and get nothing. 
    The Ten Club page calls this a presale, not a lottery. The word is not used at all on that page at least.

    https://pearljam.com/ten-club/event/pearl-jam-2023-us-tour-presale
    You are requesting tickets and have "chances" to be confirmed... Pretty much a lottery (unless requests don't exceed inventory). 
    Yes, it's essentially a lottery within the priority rank you are in. The FAQ says priority is taken in to consideration, and that doesnt appear to have happened in many cases.

    I dont want to blanket assume anything until we get the fail emails, but I think we all know they're coming.We're 90 minutes from ending the window they said tickets would go out.

    And in my case, besides missing my #1 priority in Chicago - my 2nd priority was GA/Reserved or Reserved for Indy, which I also missed. And in no way should I get anything for Indy if every single #1 priority entry wasn't taken care of. Thats how it's always worked and how it was implied it would continue to work.
    This, but it doesnt appear to be that way 
  • LedbetterdaysLedbetterdays Round Rock, Texas Posts: 556
    edited April 2023
    P1 should be the very first thing that gets selected. People make that choice for a reason. Every person possible should get their P1 choice.
    Post edited by Ledbetterdays on
    Touring Fan since 1996
  • treestrees Columbus OHIO Posts: 1,894
    JI10794 said:
    My membership number is 141XXX. Indy is the only show I applied for and I picked “GA or reserved” and I’ve received nothing. If it’s accurate that selecting “reserved (only)” would have increased my odds, that’s frustrating to hear. Both options are saying someone wants tickets in the reserved section.

    I live in Indy and haven’t seen them live since they were here in 2010. In the past I’ve always been able to get seats. I’m unable to travel like some people so I can only seen them when they play in Indy. It’s frustrating when I’ve been a member this long and am unable to get seats. In the future I think 10c should consider giving additional priority to people who haven’t attended a show recently and/or that are attending the show who live locally. This whole process is super frustrating for someone who has been a 10c member for 27 years and I can’t get tickets to my hometown show.
    I hear you on this 


    PJ Cuyahoga Flalls OH 8/26/1998
    PJ Noblesviile IN 8/18/2000
    PJ Cincinnatti OH 8/20/2000
    PJ Columbus OH 8/21/2000
    PJ Columbus OH 6/24/2003
    PJ Hamilton Ontario 9/13/2005
    PJ Phiadelphia PA 10/3/2005
    PJ Cleveland OH 5/20/2006
    PJ Columbia SC 6/16/2008.....
    e.V Chicago IL 8/21/2008
    e.V Philly PA 6/11/2009
    e.V Bailtimore MD 6/14/2009...
    PJ Chicago IL 8/23/2009
    .PJ...Philly PA 10/27/2009 PJ.Philadephia PA 10/28/2009.
    PJ Columbus OH 5/6/2010
    PJ Cleveland OH 5/9/2010.
    BRAD Columbus OH 10/5/2010
    e.V St.Louis MO 7/1/2011
    .PJ.. East Troy WI 9/3/2011..PJ..East Troy WI 9/4/2011
    Neil Young & Crazy Horse Cleveland OH 10/8/2012
    RNDM Chicago IL11/13/2012
    Alice In Chains/SoundGarden Columbus OH 5/19/2013
    AIC Fort Wayne IN 5/21/2013
    PJ Pittsburgh PA 10/11/2013
    AIC Cincinnati OH 5/17/2014
    AIC Cleveland OH 5/19/2014
    AIC Indianapolis IN 8/19/2014
    PJ Cincinnati OH 10/1/2014
    AIC Cincinnati OH 8/06/2015
    RNDM Chicago IL 3/15/2016
    PJ Columbia SC 4\21\2016
    PJ Lexington KY 4/26/2016
    PJ Chicago IL 8/20/2016
    Soundgarden Columbus OH 5/20/2017 Canceled RIP Chris
    AIC Columbus OH 5/18/2018 
    PJ Chicago IL 8/18/2018 PJ Chicago IL 8/20/2018
    PJ St Louis Missouri 9/18/2022
    AIC Cuyohoga falls Oh. 8/16/2019
    SHAWNSMITH Rip 2019Mark Lanegan Band 5/18/19
  • arakiasarakias Posts: 281
    Anyone else still not know? My tickets today page shows "request received" for the two shows I entered for.
  • tylermooretylermoore St. Joseph, MI Posts: 987
    The fact no lawn or behind stage emails have gone out leaves me somewhat hopeful. Like someone somewhere actually realized how bad things were going. Who knows....what a shit show.  
  • Doug87Doug87 Posts: 442
    edited April 2023
    trees said:
    JI10794 said:
    My membership number is 141XXX. Indy is the only show I applied for and I picked “GA or reserved” and I’ve received nothing. If it’s accurate that selecting “reserved (only)” would have increased my odds, that’s frustrating to hear. Both options are saying someone wants tickets in the reserved section.

    I live in Indy and haven’t seen them live since they were here in 2010. In the past I’ve always been able to get seats. I’m unable to travel like some people so I can only seen them when they play in Indy. It’s frustrating when I’ve been a member this long and am unable to get seats. In the future I think 10c should consider giving additional priority to people who haven’t attended a show recently and/or that are attending the show who live locally. This whole process is super frustrating for someone who has been a 10c member for 27 years and I can’t get tickets to my hometown show.
    I hear you on this 
    The whole thing is bullshit.

    The concept that asking for more shows results in obtaining tickets to A or several shows is absurd.

    Wholeheartedly agree that a state address or bordering state address should receive priority consideration.

    The whole thing is f'ed up and arguably makes the Ten Club a complete waste of $35 a year.

    Unless you have a great Ten Club number, not even worth entertaining, imo.
    Post edited by Doug87 on
  • PJINFLAPJINFLA Posts: 774
    Unfortunately the 10 club has no incentive to do anything about all of these issues that have come to light today. They know we are going to continue to pay for a membership just for the chance to get tickets to a show. They know we are going to continue to buy merchandise and pay exorbitant amounts for shipping to get it because it's limited. We are talking about an organization that encourages you to go buy their vinyl for RSD and then 2 days later offers the same material on their website with a colored more rare release without blinking an eye. If you think they care, you are mistaken. It's the state of the country today lower everyone's expectations so that you can provide less service and quality for more money. It's frustrating but we all know the game so we either play it or don't play it. 
    4/22/92 St. Petersburg, 8/23/92 Orlando, 3/29/94 St. Petersburg, 10/7/96 Ft. Lauderdale, 9/8/98 East Rutherford, 9/22/98 West Palm Beach, 9/23/98 West Palm Beach, 8/9/00 West Palm Beach, 8/10/00 West Palm Beach, 8/12/00 Tampa, 4/11/03 West Palm Beach, 4/13/03 Tampa, 6/2/03 Irvine, 6/3/03 Irvine, 9/28/04 Boston, 9/29/04 Boston, 9/1/05 George WA, 9/11/05 Kitchener, 9/12/05 London, 9/13/05 Hamilton, 10/03/05 Philadelphia, 5/16/06 Chicago, 5/17/06 Chicago, 6/23/06 Pittsburgh, 6/24/06 Cincinnati, 6/11/08, West Palm Beach, 6/12/08 Tampa, 6/19/08 Camden, 6/20/08 Camden, 8/23/09 Chicago, 8/24/09 Chicago, 10/27/09 Philadelphia, 10/28/09 Philadelphia, 10/30/09 Philadelphia, 10/31/09 Philadelphia, 5/18/10 New Jersey, 5/20/10 New York, 5/21/10 New York, 9/3/11 East Troy, 9/4/11 East Troy, 9/11/11 Toronto, 9/12/11 Toronto, 9/02/12 Philadelphia, 9/21/12 Pensacola, 7/19/13 Chicago, 10/18/13 Brooklyn, 10/19/13 Brooklyn, 11/23/13 LA, 10/24/13 LA, 11/16/13 Oklahoma City, 10/1/14 Cincinnati, 10/20/14 Milwaukee, 10/22/14 Denver, 4/8/16 Ft. Lauderdale, 4/9/16 Miami, 4/11/16 Tampa, 5/1/16 New York, 5/2/16 New York, 8/5/16 Boston, 8/7/16 Boston, 8/20/16 Chicago, 8/22/16 Chicago, 4/07/17 New York, 8/08/18 Seattle, 8/10/18 Seattle, 8/20/18 Chicago
    9/02/18 Boston, 9/04/18 Boston, 9/11/22 New York, 9/16/22 Nashville, 9/22/22 Denver, 8/31/23, St. Paul, 9/2/23 St. Paul, 9/18/23 Austin, 9/19/23 Austin
  • SaravaSarava Naperville, IL Posts: 2,041
    I think at the end of the day, tickets today or ticketmaster clearly f-ed up with the priorities, and we know they wont make good on it. I work 15 minutes from the UC and it appears I wont be going to either of the shows. I sure as hell wont pay the PJP or scalper prices.

    First world problems, eh?

    Luckily my wife nabbed Minnesota 2 reserved with her presale. She always saves the day!  I think I'll be able to get Minnesota 1 tix via F2F at some point. I'll make a driving weekend getaway out of it and have some fun. Maybe visit the Prince mansion and the Mall of America, etc.

    I'm going to bed. Congrats to everyone who scored today!
  • LedbetterdaysLedbetterdays Round Rock, Texas Posts: 556
    edited April 2023
    I dunno if this will help anyone, but thought I would share it. If you did not get tickets for a show you think you maybe should have I messaged the email customer service when I did not receive ATX1 tickets as my P1 and yes I checked SPAM they sent me this.....and my confirmation email showed up!

    We are happy to assist with your inquiries and apologize for any inconvenience. 
     
    Please be advised ticket requests for this event are granted through a lottery system; Tickets for this event are not guaranteed. However our records show you have been granted Two (2) tickets for Pearl Jam taking place on 09/18/2023 at the Moody Center in Austin, Tx and Two (2) tickets for Pearl Jam taking place on 09/19/2023 at the Moody Center in Austin, Tx. I have resent your confirmation to the email as provided at the time of your ticket requests. If you cannot access your confirmation in your inbox we ask that you please check your spam/bulk folder(s). 
     
    As always; Thank you for choosing Ticketstoday, Where we truly appreciate your business and understanding. 
    Touring Fan since 1996
  • Hankj25Hankj25 Posts: 330
    I get that the first set of tickets for each 10C member is a lottery.  How one 10C member gets all 4 of their shows, while others who want the same the shows get nothing is what I don’t understand.

    I’ve been mostly fortunate, but I have to admit I’m a little surprised I got skunked today.  I’ll buy my way into Chicago.  But the 10C membership might lag moving forward.  If I just have to pay going rate for shows, the $$ ain’t worth a shirt…

    that being said, this is still the greatest band on the planet….and I’m still all in..
    Seattle 8-8-18
    Chicago 8-18-18
    Chicago 8-20-18
    St. Louis 4-4-20
    Denver 4-9-20

    Denver 9-22-22
    Noblesville 9-10-23
    Vancouver 5-6-24
    Seattle 5-30-24
    Nashville 5-6-25


    EV
    Chicago 2-9-22
    Tempe 2-26-23
  • Doug87Doug87 Posts: 442
    For what it's worth, I messaged the TicketsToday rep again asking when we'll all know or not and he said by 11:59 PM Tonight - didn't specify time zone.
    I think these guys are just reading whatever script they were provided with for the day and have zero clue as to what is actually happening.
  • RDC0369RDC0369 Louisiana Posts: 23
    Am I correct assuming that they are done sending out emails for the day? 
  • given2fly23given2fly23 Evanston, IL Posts: 5,930
    JESUS. FUCKING. CHRIST.

    Found: Soundgarden Hyde Park DVD (Thank you for the gift!)
    Posters for Sale: http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/117469/posters-for-sale
    T-Shirts for Sale: http://community.pearljam.com/discussion/149289/pj-t-shirt-trade-or-sale
  • wwsuicidewwsuicide Posts: 1,370
    Seat reassignment emails are being sent out!
  • JedJed New York City Posts: 1,189
    Well, this is a first. Lol
  • tylermooretylermoore St. Joseph, MI Posts: 987
    Hopefully that = more confirmations 
  • rlaidepeasrlaidepeas St. Louis, MO Posts: 306
    The fact no lawn or behind stage emails have gone out leaves me somewhat hopeful. Like someone somewhere actually realized how bad things were going. Who knows....what a shit show.  
    You should be somewhat hopeful because unless they are lying to us, Pearl Jam said they have these available. The lawn in Noblesville they claim to have “reserved the majority of GA lawn tickets”. The lawn section is listed as 18,000 capacity so I think everyone who had lawn will at least get that.


  • Hankj25Hankj25 Posts: 330
    JESUS. FUCKING. CHRIST.

    OMG…
    Seattle 8-8-18
    Chicago 8-18-18
    Chicago 8-20-18
    St. Louis 4-4-20
    Denver 4-9-20

    Denver 9-22-22
    Noblesville 9-10-23
    Vancouver 5-6-24
    Seattle 5-30-24
    Nashville 5-6-25


    EV
    Chicago 2-9-22
    Tempe 2-26-23
  • Go AnimalGo Animal Posts: 6,023
    Oh shit...

    PJ - 09/23/98: West Palm Beach II, 08/12/00: Tampa, 04/12/03: Orlando, 04/13/03: Tampa, 06/12/08: Tampa, 06/27/08: Hartford, 09/22/09: Seattle II, 04/11/16: Tampa, 05/01 & 05/02/16: MSG I & II, 09/18/21: Sea Hear Now, 10/01 & 10/02/21: Ohana Encore I & II, 05/06 & 05/07/22: Los Angeles I & II, 09/11/22: MSG, 09/16/22: Nashville, 09/02/23: St. Paul II, 09/07/23: Chicago II, 09/18 & 09/19/23: Austin I & II, 05/16 & 05/18/24: Las Vegas I & II, 08/29 & 08/31/24: Wrigley Field I & II, 09/03 & 09/04/24: MSG I & II, 09/27 & 09/29/24: Ohana Festival I & II

    EV - 08/04 & 08/05/08: (Eddie solo, w/Liam Finn) NYC I & II, 11/27 & 11/28/12: (Eddie solo, w/Glen Hansard) Orlando I & II, 02/09 & 02/10/22: (Eddie & the Earthlings) Chicago I & II, 09/30/23: (Eddie & the Earthlings) Ohana Festival

    Song Wishlist: Oceans, Brother, Alone, Let Me Sleep, full W.M.A., Hold On, Bugs/all of Vitalogy, Gremmie Out Of Control (BAM!), Mankind, Around The Bend (full band), Whale Song (DOUBLE BAM!), The Long Road, Don't Gimme No Lip, Pilate, Push Me Pull Me, All Those Yesterdays, Rival, Parting Ways, Ghost, Bu$hleaguer, WWS, Parachutes, Army Reserve, low octave Driftin', Strangest Tribe, Other Side, Undone, Fatal, Hitchhiker, Education, Black Red Yellow, Of the Earth, Love Reign O'er Me, Gonna See My Friend, Amongst the Waves, Santa Cruz, Infallible, Yellow Moon, Alright, Comes Then Goes, Got to Give, and the Mamasan Trilogy.

    Wanted Posters: WPB '98, Tampa/WPB '00, Tampa '03, EV Batmobile '08        ISO: any picks, or setlists from any of my shows!
  • cutzcutz Posts: 11,908
    JESUS. FUCKING. CHRIST.

    I was just about to Post this too.

    WOW!!
  • tylermooretylermoore St. Joseph, MI Posts: 987
    Wow
  • YAKIMATSUYAKIMATSU Santa Fe Posts: 918
    This is ....just , wow.
    Soldier Field 7-11-95, Alpine Valley 6-26-98, United Center 6-29-98, Riverport Amphitheater (St. Louis)7-2-98, MGM Grand Arena 10-22-00, Sprint Center (Kansas City)5-3-10, Adams Event Center (Missoula)9-30-12, Wrigley Field 7-19-13, Jobing.com Arena (Phoenix)11-19-13, Moda Center (Portland)11-29-13, Spokane Arena 11-30-13, Pepsi Center (Denver)10-22-14, Gila River Arena (Phoenix)5-9-22, Moody Center (Austin)9-18-23, Moody Center 9-19-23, Rogers Arena (Vancouver)5-4-24, Rogers Arena 5-6-24, MGM Grand 5-16-24, MGM Grand 5-18-24, Wrigley Field 8-29-24, Wrigley Field 8-31-24
  • jimjam1982jimjam1982 AZ Posts: 1,434
    So they still didn't address priority and addressed the lesser issue. At least its progress amd something is getting fixed. #Shitshow
  • EddieredderEddieredder Posts: 751
    RVMMFC said:
    JC29866 said:
    Red 81 said:
    JC29866 said:
    I got both Chicago 1 (1st priority) and Chicago 2 (2nd priority),  great seats in 101 1st row ..#168xxx

    Clicked all boxes as 10club advised…

    The system works!   
    Really, tell that to someone who had Chicago 2 as priority 1 and didnt get a ticket. (clicked all boxes as well)
    It’s a lottery.  I’ve been shut out many times over the years, and won many times as well.  The lottery is a chance for everyone,  not a guarantee.  If you don’t hit the Powerball jackpot, you can’t blame the nice lady pulling the number balls. 
    But in this lottery noone with a priority 2 should win ahead of a priority one for the same seat type

    of course they should - its not a lottery done by priority ranking - the ranking only comes into play once chosen
    No, that is not how this ever has worked
    See this as a pretty common response. Are we saying things don't change? They can't change? This process, and this membership, has all changed. You can bet it will also change again. 
    Then, let us know that it’s changed 
    And what does that solve. I get it. Change is hard for everyone. But lets not act like acknowledgment of change makes it any less painfull
  • RDC0369RDC0369 Louisiana Posts: 23
    Clusterfuck 
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