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Roe v Wade

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    HobbesHobbes Pacific Northwest Posts: 6,413
    so, just to sum up the supreme court's week this week:

    life begins at conception and ends in a mass shooting.
    Yep.

    I just don’t see how they can be so passionate about protecting the  unborn and then leave it at that 

    once they are born, they do absolutely everything they can to fight anything aimed at  making sure they are fed, clothed, have access to healthcare, fund their schools at a reasonable level,  or make sure they are reasonably protected at school or anywhere else.

    it’s the governments responsibility to make sure they are born. After that the government has no role 
    Policy and politics of the extreme left. Some say we should ignore that.
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    Get_RightGet_Right Posts: 12,493
    I am embarrassed to be an American man and a lawyer. Again. WTF is wrong with this country?
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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,942
    Pro-life until you’re born. Then it’s pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • Options
    Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,220
    PP193448 said:
    if the constitution doesn't explicitly state abortion, making it overturnable, the constitution doesn't explicitly state what type of arms either, making that overturnable. 

    muskets only. fuck em. everyone else? 10 year prison term. or castration. you choose. 
    We need term limits for Congress and Courts.  No permanent politicians paid off by lobbyists and big corp.  And ignore the extreme left and extreme right.


    The right is loyal and shows up to vote, especially in off years, when the senate is often decided. This likely cost the left RBG and Scalia’s seat. With those two, it’d be a 5-4 liberal court and this weeks historically drastic opinions would not have existed. Without voters joining us, this is the America we are getting.

    Too many people, who want common sense gun reform and to protect womens rights, either get turned off by politics or don’t bother to show up every year.

    Term limits in the court will never happen unless every single election year in the foreseeable future is a blue wave. Until then, we all get to enjoy unlimited guns on our streets and in our schools, and women gettin hauled off to jail. 
  • Options
    Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    PP193448 said:
    if the constitution doesn't explicitly state abortion, making it overturnable, the constitution doesn't explicitly state what type of arms either, making that overturnable. 

    muskets only. fuck em. everyone else? 10 year prison term. or castration. you choose. 
    We need term limits for Congress and Courts.  No permanent politicians paid off by lobbyists and big corp.  And ignore the extreme left and extreme right.


    The right is loyal and shows up to vote, especially in off years, when the senate is often decided. This likely cost the left RBG and Scalia’s seat. With those two, it’d be a 5-4 liberal court and this weeks historically drastic opinions would not have existed. Without voters joining us, this is the America we are getting.

    Too many people, who want common sense gun reform and to protect womens rights, either get turned off by politics or don’t bother to show up every year.

    Term limits in the court will never happen unless every single election year in the foreseeable future is a blue wave. Until then, we all get to enjoy unlimited guns on our streets and in our schools, and women gettin hauled off to jail. 
    It’s already set up that if the democrats win they cheated.

    no democratic majority will ever be seen as legitimate to the slightly less than 50 percent minority 

    that train has left the station. Voting only matters if the winner is accepted by the country. Those days are gone 
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,921
    So weird to wake up and realize, yes, you really do live in an autocratic nation run by people who don't want women to have rights and who pretend to care about children yet don't want to do anything to stop them from being mowed down at school.  No, it was not just a bad dream, it is the way of this country today.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,220
    dankind said:
    dankind said:
    Thanks Bernie. Nice job.
    Is this a joke? I don't know about where you live, but Bernie wasn't on the ballot here. I suppose folks could've written him in...?
    Would Hillary have given us the three stooges of SCOTUS appointments? Don’t know where you live but Bernie’s failure to endorse Hillary and pretending he could beat POOTWH and be elected as a socialist certainly bears responsibility for today’s and future decisions. The Bernie protest voters own this.
    I thought that he did endorse Hillary, albeit coldly, similar to his Biden endorsement. So I Googled it, and the headlines on July 12, 2016, were that that this endorsement did indeed take place in an effort to “unite” the party. 

    Anyway, I never considered voting for him because of my ageism. But I didn’t know that there was a large contingent of Bernie protest voters, so I Googled it. Turns out, there wasn’t. A weak queef of 0.08% of the vote tally was Bernie write-ins. Not even a dent. Maybe a scratch? The Nader shamers (and Nader voter shamers) maybe kinda sorta had a political point to make in 2000 because he was on the ballot and received an earth-shattering 2.74% of the vote, not even enough to get his fledgling party federal funding. 

    Is this more of an influence in the zeitgeist/cult of personality thing that you’re blaming him for? Because that seems misdirected. The media (Russian-tainted social media included, of course, in 2016) and the electorate play larger roles than the individual politician there, I’d argue.

    And I genuinely thought you might be joking in the old “thanks, Obama” vein, but I saw other posters pointing the finger in his (and his supporters’) general direction as well and then began to wonder if you were. 

    Thanks for the explanation. 
    Its not that voters wrote Bernie in as a protest vote, its that Bernie's "cold" endorsement and his supporters sour grapes, i.e. the #neverhillary crowd that Bernie spawned, either voted POOTWH, third party or stayed home. And this is what it got them. 6%-12% of Bernie supporters ended up voting POOTWH. I don't know what the number of total Bernie supporters is/was but I'd fathom a brain fart that 6%-12% of whatever number it is, would have been enough to put Hillary in the White House and maybe, just maybe, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    Good day.

    PS: Don't get pregnant unless you want to.

    1 In 10 Bernie Sanders Supporters Ended Up Voting For Trump : NPR



    New data is shedding light, however, on Sanders’s role in the last election — and on how many Sanders voters ended up supporting Trump. It’s a question many in the party will be asking about a candidate who may want to compete again for the Democratic nomination.

    How many Sanders voters voted for Donald Trump?

    Two surveys estimate that 12 percent of Sanders voters voted for Trump. A third survey suggests it was 6 percent.

    First, the political scientist Brian Schaffner analyzed the Cooperative Congressional Election Study, which was conducted by YouGov and interviewed 64,600 Americans in October-November 2016. In that survey, Schaffner found that 12 percent of people who voted in the primary and reported voting for Sanders also voted in November and reported voting for Trump.

    Schaffner examined only voters whose turnout in the primary and general election could be validated using voter file data. This excludes people who said they voted but actually did not — although it also excludes people who voted in caucuses or party-run primaries, for which validated turnout data are not as readily available.

    Second, the same 12 percent figure emerges in the 2016 VOTER Survey, which was also conducted by YouGov and overseen by the Democracy Fund Voter Study Group (of which I am research director). In 2016, this survey interviewed 8,000 respondents in July, when they were asked their primary vote preference, and then in December, when they were asked their general election preference. This has the advantage of measuring primary preference closer to the primaries themselves and then tracking people over time. But their turnout in both elections has not been validated as of yet.

    The third survey is the RAND Presidential Election Panel Survey, which interviewed the same group of about 3,000 Americans six times during the campaign. Again, this survey has the advantage of tracking voters over time, but nobody’s turnout has been validated. Among voters who reported supporting Sanders as of March 2016, 6 percent then reported voting for Trump in November.



    I recall it was a pretty big story in 2016 how many liberals and left leaning independents didn’t like Hilary and didn’t vote for her. Not sure why that’s being forgotten.

    In fact, a few months ago, many of the left leaners were screaming about Biden not being able to get BBB thru congress. The left in this country, compared to the right, is unaffiliated, not passionate and too busy to care about any cause.

    So as a result, this is the country we get.
  • Options
    mfc2006mfc2006 HTOWN Posts: 37,403
    brianlux said:
    So weird to wake up and realize, yes, you really do live in an autocratic nation run by people who don't want women to have rights and who pretend to care about children yet don't want to do anything to stop them from being mowed down at school.  No, it was not just a bad dream, it is the way of this country today.
    It's a fucking disgrace. I am at a loss for words.
    I LOVE MUSIC.
    www.cluthelee.com
    www.cluthe.com
  • Options
    Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,220
    PP193448 said:
    if the constitution doesn't explicitly state abortion, making it overturnable, the constitution doesn't explicitly state what type of arms either, making that overturnable. 

    muskets only. fuck em. everyone else? 10 year prison term. or castration. you choose. 
    We need term limits for Congress and Courts.  No permanent politicians paid off by lobbyists and big corp.  And ignore the extreme left and extreme right.


    The right is loyal and shows up to vote, especially in off years, when the senate is often decided. This likely cost the left RBG and Scalia’s seat. With those two, it’d be a 5-4 liberal court and this weeks historically drastic opinions would not have existed. Without voters joining us, this is the America we are getting.

    Too many people, who want common sense gun reform and to protect womens rights, either get turned off by politics or don’t bother to show up every year.

    Term limits in the court will never happen unless every single election year in the foreseeable future is a blue wave. Until then, we all get to enjoy unlimited guns on our streets and in our schools, and women gettin hauled off to jail. 
    It’s already set up that if the democrats win they cheated.

    no democratic majority will ever be seen as legitimate to the slightly less than 50 percent minority 

    that train has left the station. Voting only matters if the winner is accepted by the country. Those days are gone 

    Keep hope alive, one day more reasonable people will see the need to vote for the left every year. If they start winning every year, that will blow holes in the trump conspiracy theories. Many thought that was the long term trend after the 2008 election. But more likely, that would never happen and the court will lean strongly to the right for decades.
  • Options
    Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    mfc2006 said:
    brianlux said:
    So weird to wake up and realize, yes, you really do live in an autocratic nation run by people who don't want women to have rights and who pretend to care about children yet don't want to do anything to stop them from being mowed down at school.  No, it was not just a bad dream, it is the way of this country today.
    It's a fucking disgrace. I am at a loss for words.
    I’m just waiting for the inevitable “if you don’t like it, move” comments from the right

    i always wonder why they are still here to say that at all, after Obama won, twice 
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,921
    mfc2006 said:
    brianlux said:
    So weird to wake up and realize, yes, you really do live in an autocratic nation run by people who don't want women to have rights and who pretend to care about children yet don't want to do anything to stop them from being mowed down at school.  No, it was not just a bad dream, it is the way of this country today.
    It's a fucking disgrace. I am at a loss for words.

    In a way, it's helpful to know many of us feel this way- most people I know do- yet in another way it hard knowing that most people you know have common sense and compassion and support democracy and yet at the same time see your country turning into a fascist state run by idiots.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,921
    mfc2006 said:
    brianlux said:
    So weird to wake up and realize, yes, you really do live in an autocratic nation run by people who don't want women to have rights and who pretend to care about children yet don't want to do anything to stop them from being mowed down at school.  No, it was not just a bad dream, it is the way of this country today.
    It's a fucking disgrace. I am at a loss for words.
    I’m just waiting for the inevitable “if you don’t like it, move” comments from the right

    i always wonder why they are still here to say that at all, after Obama won, twice 

    That is a mystery that has perplexed me for several years.  WTF happened?
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    mfc2006mfc2006 HTOWN Posts: 37,403
    brianlux said:
    mfc2006 said:
    brianlux said:
    So weird to wake up and realize, yes, you really do live in an autocratic nation run by people who don't want women to have rights and who pretend to care about children yet don't want to do anything to stop them from being mowed down at school.  No, it was not just a bad dream, it is the way of this country today.
    It's a fucking disgrace. I am at a loss for words.

    In a way, it's helpful to know many of us feel this way- most people I know do- yet in another way it hard knowing that most people you know have common sense and compassion and support democracy and yet at the same time see your country turning into a fascist state run by idiots.
    Yes, that helps a little, but not much. So fucking pissed and sad about this.
    I LOVE MUSIC.
    www.cluthelee.com
    www.cluthe.com
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    OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 4,839
    mfc2006 said:
    brianlux said:
    So weird to wake up and realize, yes, you really do live in an autocratic nation run by people who don't want women to have rights and who pretend to care about children yet don't want to do anything to stop them from being mowed down at school.  No, it was not just a bad dream, it is the way of this country today.
    It's a fucking disgrace. I am at a loss for words.
    I’m just waiting for the inevitable “if you don’t like it, move” comments from the right

    i always wonder why they are still here to say that at all, after Obama won, twice 
    I looked into moving in 2016. Unfortunately, it's not as easy as one may think.
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
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  • Options
    Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited June 2022
    brianlux said:
    mfc2006 said:
    brianlux said:
    So weird to wake up and realize, yes, you really do live in an autocratic nation run by people who don't want women to have rights and who pretend to care about children yet don't want to do anything to stop them from being mowed down at school.  No, it was not just a bad dream, it is the way of this country today.
    It's a fucking disgrace. I am at a loss for words.

    In a way, it's helpful to know many of us feel this way- most people I know do- yet in another way it hard knowing that most people you know have common sense and compassion and support democracy and yet at the same time see your country turning into a fascist state run by idiots.
    Yes, to me it’s two separate things.

    the supreme court and politics is separate from the anti democratic sentiment present in large swaths of the population 

    we can survive the politics, we can’t survive what’s happening to democracy itself.  These awful policies and rulings are reversible but that depends on a functional democracy which the republicans are doing their best to dismantle.  

    It’s a dangerous game. Republicans are turning away from democracy in order push their agenda, no matter the consequences. That’s far worse than the actual agenda


    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
  • Options
    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,921
    brianlux said:
    mfc2006 said:
    brianlux said:
    So weird to wake up and realize, yes, you really do live in an autocratic nation run by people who don't want women to have rights and who pretend to care about children yet don't want to do anything to stop them from being mowed down at school.  No, it was not just a bad dream, it is the way of this country today.
    It's a fucking disgrace. I am at a loss for words.

    In a way, it's helpful to know many of us feel this way- most people I know do- yet in another way it hard knowing that most people you know have common sense and compassion and support democracy and yet at the same time see your country turning into a fascist state run by idiots.
    Yes, to me it’s two separate things.

    the supreme court and politics is separate from the anti democratic sentiment present in large swaths of the population 

    we can survive the politics, we can’t survive what’s happening to democracy itself.  These awful policies and rulings are reversible but that depends on a functional democracy which the republicans are doing their best to dismantle.  

    It’s a dangerous game. Republicans are turning away from democracy in order push their agenda, no matter the consequences. That’s far worse than the actual agenda



    A lot (if not all) hangs on what happen in November of this year and 2024.  Scary thought.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    jerparker20jerparker20 St. Paul, MN Posts: 2,420
    PP193448 said:
    if the constitution doesn't explicitly state abortion, making it overturnable, the constitution doesn't explicitly state what type of arms either, making that overturnable. 

    muskets only. fuck em. everyone else? 10 year prison term. or castration. you choose. 
    We need term limits for Congress and Courts.  No permanent politicians paid off by lobbyists and big corp.  And ignore the extreme left and extreme right.


    The right is loyal and shows up to vote, especially in off years, when the senate is often decided. This likely cost the left RBG and Scalia’s seat. With those two, it’d be a 5-4 liberal court and this weeks historically drastic opinions would not have existed. Without voters joining us, this is the America we are getting.

    Too many people, who want common sense gun reform and to protect womens rights, either get turned off by politics or don’t bother to show up every year.

    Term limits in the court will never happen unless every single election year in the foreseeable future is a blue wave. Until then, we all get to enjoy unlimited guns on our streets and in our schools, and women gettin hauled off to jail. 
    It’s already set up that if the democrats win they cheated.

    no democratic majority will ever be seen as legitimate to the slightly less than 50 percent minority 

    that train has left the station. Voting only matters if the winner is accepted by the country. Those days are gone 

    Keep hope alive, one day more reasonable people will see the need to vote for the left every year. If they start winning every year, that will blow holes in the trump conspiracy theories. Many thought that was the long term trend after the 2008 election. But more likely, that would never happen and the court will lean strongly to the right for decades.
    Not to shit on the hope parade, but the upcoming midterm has a strong probability of being the last shot at voters getting a say in the governance of this country.

    The plan to end representative governance is out in the open. There is a dedicated and supportive swath of people in this country who WILL show up and vote for it. I don’t think I need to state which end of the political spectrum I’m describing. 
  • Options
    Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    PP193448 said:
    if the constitution doesn't explicitly state abortion, making it overturnable, the constitution doesn't explicitly state what type of arms either, making that overturnable. 

    muskets only. fuck em. everyone else? 10 year prison term. or castration. you choose. 
    We need term limits for Congress and Courts.  No permanent politicians paid off by lobbyists and big corp.  And ignore the extreme left and extreme right.


    The right is loyal and shows up to vote, especially in off years, when the senate is often decided. This likely cost the left RBG and Scalia’s seat. With those two, it’d be a 5-4 liberal court and this weeks historically drastic opinions would not have existed. Without voters joining us, this is the America we are getting.

    Too many people, who want common sense gun reform and to protect womens rights, either get turned off by politics or don’t bother to show up every year.

    Term limits in the court will never happen unless every single election year in the foreseeable future is a blue wave. Until then, we all get to enjoy unlimited guns on our streets and in our schools, and women gettin hauled off to jail. 
    It’s already set up that if the democrats win they cheated.

    no democratic majority will ever be seen as legitimate to the slightly less than 50 percent minority 

    that train has left the station. Voting only matters if the winner is accepted by the country. Those days are gone 

    Keep hope alive, one day more reasonable people will see the need to vote for the left every year. If they start winning every year, that will blow holes in the trump conspiracy theories. Many thought that was the long term trend after the 2008 election. But more likely, that would never happen and the court will lean strongly to the right for decades.
    Not to shit on the hope parade, but the upcoming midterm has a strong probability of being the last shot at voters getting a say in the governance of this country.

    The plan to end representative governance is out in the open. There is a dedicated and supportive swath of people in this country who WILL show up and vote for it. I don’t think I need to state which end of the political spectrum I’m describing. 
    And gas prices will be the issue. Democrats will get hammered 

    nevermind the fact gas prices would be the same reguardless of who was president or who controls congress. The only thing Trump could have done is let Russia invade and block any sanctions on Russia. That’s not an actual solution though. It’s just trading lower gas prices for an even bigger problem later 

    people are voting on things the government really doesn’t directly control and ignoring things the government does directly control, its crazy 


  • Options
    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,942
    PP193448 said:
    if the constitution doesn't explicitly state abortion, making it overturnable, the constitution doesn't explicitly state what type of arms either, making that overturnable. 

    muskets only. fuck em. everyone else? 10 year prison term. or castration. you choose. 
    We need term limits for Congress and Courts.  No permanent politicians paid off by lobbyists and big corp.  And ignore the extreme left and extreme right.


    The right is loyal and shows up to vote, especially in off years, when the senate is often decided. This likely cost the left RBG and Scalia’s seat. With those two, it’d be a 5-4 liberal court and this weeks historically drastic opinions would not have existed. Without voters joining us, this is the America we are getting.

    Too many people, who want common sense gun reform and to protect womens rights, either get turned off by politics or don’t bother to show up every year.

    Term limits in the court will never happen unless every single election year in the foreseeable future is a blue wave. Until then, we all get to enjoy unlimited guns on our streets and in our schools, and women gettin hauled off to jail. 
    It’s already set up that if the democrats win they cheated.

    no democratic majority will ever be seen as legitimate to the slightly less than 50 percent minority 

    that train has left the station. Voting only matters if the winner is accepted by the country. Those days are gone 

    Keep hope alive, one day more reasonable people will see the need to vote for the left every year. If they start winning every year, that will blow holes in the trump conspiracy theories. Many thought that was the long term trend after the 2008 election. But more likely, that would never happen and the court will lean strongly to the right for decades.
    Not to shit on the hope parade, but the upcoming midterm has a strong probability of being the last shot at voters getting a say in the governance of this country.

    The plan to end representative governance is out in the open. There is a dedicated and supportive swath of people in this country who WILL show up and vote for it. I don’t think I need to state which end of the political spectrum I’m describing. 
    Agreed. It’s too late. Brandon becomes a lame duck in January 2023 and repubs have two more years to ensure a return of POOTWH or his more polished version in Deathsantis. Repub state legislatures will cement their grip and ability to “legally” overturn election outcomes they don’t like.

    If all goes according to plan, I’ll be watching from outside the country. I’ll turn the lights off for you.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,921
    At some point (sooner than later), we need to do more than just complain (not that that isn't understandable and appropriate).  We need to protest, educate voters, promote birth control, support Planned Parenthood (re recently donated dollars yet again) and most urgently, we need to support women who live in red states who want an abortion by sheltering them (opening homes, hotel vouchers, etc) and providing transportation to places that still allow abortions.  Many women are going to need our support now, not just our gripes.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













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    CROJAM95CROJAM95 Posts: 9,474
    static111 said:
    CROJAM95 said:
    Ginni & ACB are gonna have a great time at the next CULT Meeting

    Fuckin GINNI....Go fuck yourself, and that dumbass nickname. He should be kicked out ASAP per her nonsense with Trump

    In 24hrs the Court showed everyone we arent much better than Russia, how Ironic
    Were some people still living in this illusion?
    It’s gotten on steroids since 2000

    Eventually the bill(damages) comes in, it’s gonna be a big one… but hey, you get the government you deserve






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    Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited June 2022
    brianlux said:
    At some point (sooner than later), we need to do more than just complain (not that that isn't understandable and appropriate).  We need to protest, educate voters, promote birth control, support Planned Parenthood (re recently donated dollars yet again) and most urgently, we need to support women who live in red states who want an abortion by sheltering them (opening homes, hotel vouchers, etc) and providing transportation to places that still allow abortions.  Many women are going to need our support now, not just our gripes.
    Democrats are too polite, generally. 
    They bring a knife to a gun fight, are bound by traditional standards of what is acceptable, cling to the notion the moral high ground actually matters , etc 


    The far right bomb abortion clinics and shoot doctors at church to protest Roe… what are democrats really going to do? Nothing. They can’t and won’t. It’s both admirable and a weakness as they will not do anything at any cost to get their way. These people were 40 feet away from murdering their own Vice President that would never happen in the opposite situation. I mean it actually happened in 2000.  Gore voters didn’t try to storm the capital and try to hang Al Gore for not declaring himself the winner 

    The conservatives succeeded. Enabling the far right this whole time and maintaining plausible deniability in specifically what they were doing 

    Ask any woman who’s used a planned parenthood in the last 30 years (for any reason) in a deep red state. Most (or at least a lot) of them will tell you they were physically afraid for their safety just getting through the front door.  That’s what the conservatives do when they disagree, they unleash the fringe with a wink and a nod 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
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    MedozKMedozK Tennessee Posts: 9,209
    Pro-life until you’re born. Then it’s pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgjGwOByays
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    dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 20,827
    dankind said:
    dankind said:
    Thanks Bernie. Nice job.
    Is this a joke? I don't know about where you live, but Bernie wasn't on the ballot here. I suppose folks could've written him in...?
    Would Hillary have given us the three stooges of SCOTUS appointments? Don’t know where you live but Bernie’s failure to endorse Hillary and pretending he could beat POOTWH and be elected as a socialist certainly bears responsibility for today’s and future decisions. The Bernie protest voters own this.
    I thought that he did endorse Hillary, albeit coldly, similar to his Biden endorsement. So I Googled it, and the headlines on July 12, 2016, were that that this endorsement did indeed take place in an effort to “unite” the party. 

    Anyway, I never considered voting for him because of my ageism. But I didn’t know that there was a large contingent of Bernie protest voters, so I Googled it. Turns out, there wasn’t. A weak queef of 0.08% of the vote tally was Bernie write-ins. Not even a dent. Maybe a scratch? The Nader shamers (and Nader voter shamers) maybe kinda sorta had a political point to make in 2000 because he was on the ballot and received an earth-shattering 2.74% of the vote, not even enough to get his fledgling party federal funding. 

    Is this more of an influence in the zeitgeist/cult of personality thing that you’re blaming him for? Because that seems misdirected. The media (Russian-tainted social media included, of course, in 2016) and the electorate play larger roles than the individual politician there, I’d argue.

    And I genuinely thought you might be joking in the old “thanks, Obama” vein, but I saw other posters pointing the finger in his (and his supporters’) general direction as well and then began to wonder if you were. 

    Thanks for the explanation. 
    Its not that voters wrote Bernie in as a protest vote, its that Bernie's "cold" endorsement and his supporters sour grapes, i.e. the #neverhillary crowd that Bernie spawned, either voted POOTWH, third party or stayed home. And this is what it got them. 6%-12% of Bernie supporters ended up voting POOTWH. I don't know what the number of total Bernie supporters is/was but I'd fathom a brain fart that 6%-12% of whatever number it is, would have been enough to put Hillary in the White House and maybe, just maybe, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    Good day.

    PS: Don't get pregnant unless you want to.

    1 In 10 Bernie Sanders Supporters Ended Up Voting For Trump : NPR



    New data is shedding light, however, on Sanders’s role in the last election — and on how many Sanders voters ended up supporting Trump. It’s a question many in the party will be asking about a candidate who may want to compete again for the Democratic nomination.

    How many Sanders voters voted for Donald Trump?

    Two surveys estimate that 12 percent of Sanders voters voted for Trump. A third survey suggests it was 6 percent.

    First, the political scientist Brian Schaffner analyzed the Cooperative Congressional Election Study, which was conducted by YouGov and interviewed 64,600 Americans in October-November 2016. In that survey, Schaffner found that 12 percent of people who voted in the primary and reported voting for Sanders also voted in November and reported voting for Trump.

    Schaffner examined only voters whose turnout in the primary and general election could be validated using voter file data. This excludes people who said they voted but actually did not — although it also excludes people who voted in caucuses or party-run primaries, for which validated turnout data are not as readily available.

    Second, the same 12 percent figure emerges in the 2016 VOTER Survey, which was also conducted by YouGov and overseen by the Democracy Fund Voter Study Group (of which I am research director). In 2016, this survey interviewed 8,000 respondents in July, when they were asked their primary vote preference, and then in December, when they were asked their general election preference. This has the advantage of measuring primary preference closer to the primaries themselves and then tracking people over time. But their turnout in both elections has not been validated as of yet.

    The third survey is the RAND Presidential Election Panel Survey, which interviewed the same group of about 3,000 Americans six times during the campaign. Again, this survey has the advantage of tracking voters over time, but nobody’s turnout has been validated. Among voters who reported supporting Sanders as of March 2016, 6 percent then reported voting for Trump in November.



    I recall it was a pretty big story in 2016 how many liberals and left leaning independents didn’t like Hilary and didn’t vote for her. Not sure why that’s being forgotten.

    In fact, a few months ago, many of the left leaners were screaming about Biden not being able to get BBB thru congress. The left in this country, compared to the right, is unaffiliated, not passionate and too busy to care about any cause.

    So as a result, this is the country we get.
    So while I recognize that it was enough to move the needle, at first glance, 1 in 10 really doesn't seem like much as a raw figure. (1 in 6, though! Hoo boy!) But then again, it's so much more than will ever compute to me to go from voting for Bernie to voting for Trump. As is 1 in 12. As is 1 in 1,000,000. This is actually astounding. Other than the absence of a Y chromosome, Hillary's policies were nearly identical to Bernie's; Trump's "policies" were nearly the polar opposite. Like what in the actual fuck are you voting for if you make the leap from Bernie to Trump? Sorry for the rant! Like most of us, I imagine, I'm just a little gobsmacked from being alive in America in 2022.

    Still, I don't think we can blame Bernie just because an estimated 10% of his supporters had a fucking screw loose. And I'd also remind you that the #neverhillary crowd existed way before Bernie ever so much as thought about seeking the presidency. So, again, I think that blame is a little misdirected.

    Thanks again for sharing these.

    I get to go tell my daughter that here's another thing we've grievously failed her and her generation on.


    I SAW PEARL JAM
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    KatKat There's a lot to be said for nowhere. Posts: 4,777
    edited June 2022
    Today is so depressing....I can't even...

    This, at least, was good to see.




    Falling down,...not staying down
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    hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of forever Posts: 24,524
    Well, that’s great for this otherwise flailing and  failing state, Kat.

    Hopefully other heads of state act similarly. 
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    brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,921
    brianlux said:
    At some point (sooner than later), we need to do more than just complain (not that that isn't understandable and appropriate).  We need to protest, educate voters, promote birth control, support Planned Parenthood (re recently donated dollars yet again) and most urgently, we need to support women who live in red states who want an abortion by sheltering them (opening homes, hotel vouchers, etc) and providing transportation to places that still allow abortions.  Many women are going to need our support now, not just our gripes.
    Democrats are too polite, generally. 
    They bring a knife to a gun fight, are bound by traditional standards of what is acceptable, cling to the notion the moral high ground actually matters , etc 


    The far right bomb abortion clinics and shoot doctors at church to protest Roe… what are democrats really going to do? Nothing. They can’t and won’t. It’s both admirable and a weakness as they will not do anything at any cost to get their way. These people were 40 feet away from murdering their own Vice President that would never happen in the opposite situation. I mean it actually happened in 2000.  Gore voters didn’t try to storm the capital and try to hang Al Gore for not declaring himself the winner 

    The conservatives succeeded. Enabling the far right this whole time and maintaining plausible deniability in specifically what they were doing 

    Ask any woman who’s used a planned parenthood in the last 30 years (for any reason) in a deep red state. Most (or at least a lot) of them will tell you they were physically afraid for their safety just getting through the front door.  That’s what the conservatives do when they disagree, they unleash the fringe with a wink and a nod 

    I'm not sure were on the same page here, Cropduster.  My comment was basically about supporting women.  You're talking about political actions.  I was talking about supporting women.

    I agree that Democrats are often to "polite", but what are you suggesting?  That we resort to violence to oppose the other side?
     
    I know very what what happens at Planned Parenthood centers.  Years ago, a close family member of mine drove by a Planned Parenthood clinic in a rough neighbor on her work every day.  One day, the far right protestors started harassing patients who were trying to get in there.  She walked past the protestors and wrote a check for $100 to that clinic.  When she came back out to her car, she told the protestors what she had done and told them she would do the same thing every day until they left.  That ended up costing her several hundred dollars but eventually they did back off.  I was afraid for her every day.

    I won't go into detail, but I've done things to resist the right that could have caused me a huge amount of grief and harm.  I'm guessing by the wording in your post, you've put yourself on the line as well.  If you haven't, you might want to back off on the bluster a bit.
    “The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
    Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.













  • Options
    KatKat There's a lot to be said for nowhere. Posts: 4,777
    edited June 2022
    hedonist said:
    Well, that’s great for this otherwise flailing and  failing state, Kat.

    Hopefully other heads of state act similarly. 
    So many problems to solve and I hope so too.  Big hugs for you, hedo. It's good to see you every day. 

    Here's another tweet that I was glad to see. (not the war part, of course.)




    Post edited by Kat on
    Falling down,...not staying down
  • Options
    Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited June 2022
    brianlux said:
    brianlux said:
    At some point (sooner than later), we need to do more than just complain (not that that isn't understandable and appropriate).  We need to protest, educate voters, promote birth control, support Planned Parenthood (re recently donated dollars yet again) and most urgently, we need to support women who live in red states who want an abortion by sheltering them (opening homes, hotel vouchers, etc) and providing transportation to places that still allow abortions.  Many women are going to need our support now, not just our gripes.
    Democrats are too polite, generally. 
    They bring a knife to a gun fight, are bound by traditional standards of what is acceptable, cling to the notion the moral high ground actually matters , etc 


    The far right bomb abortion clinics and shoot doctors at church to protest Roe… what are democrats really going to do? Nothing. They can’t and won’t. It’s both admirable and a weakness as they will not do anything at any cost to get their way. These people were 40 feet away from murdering their own Vice President that would never happen in the opposite situation. I mean it actually happened in 2000.  Gore voters didn’t try to storm the capital and try to hang Al Gore for not declaring himself the winner 

    The conservatives succeeded. Enabling the far right this whole time and maintaining plausible deniability in specifically what they were doing 

    Ask any woman who’s used a planned parenthood in the last 30 years (for any reason) in a deep red state. Most (or at least a lot) of them will tell you they were physically afraid for their safety just getting through the front door.  That’s what the conservatives do when they disagree, they unleash the fringe with a wink and a nod 

    I'm not sure were on the same page here, Cropduster.  My comment was basically about supporting women.  You're talking about political actions.  I was talking about supporting women.

    I agree that Democrats are often to "polite", but what are you suggesting?  That we resort to violence to oppose the other side?
     
    I know very what what happens at Planned Parenthood centers.  Years ago, a close family member of mine drove by a Planned Parenthood clinic in a rough neighbor on her work every day.  One day, the far right protestors started harassing patients who were trying to get in there.  She walked past the protestors and wrote a check for $100 to that clinic.  When she came back out to her car, she told the protestors what she had done and told them she would do the same thing every day until they left.  That ended up costing her several hundred dollars but eventually they did back off.  I was afraid for her every day.

    I won't go into detail, but I've done things to resist the right that could have caused me a huge amount of grief and harm.  I'm guessing by the wording in your post, you've put yourself on the line as well.  If you haven't, you might want to back off on the bluster a bit.
    I’m just referring to when you are talking about the need to “protest” and not just complain 

    democrats and republicans protest very differently and republicans are far more tolerant of their fringe when things get out of control. 

    Protesting as a democrat is kind of pointless as it’s not as effective.  Im not saying democrats should get out of control I’m saying they play by different rules. Far right protesters scare people and that’s by design. It’s not right, but it’s true and they get away with it.  And yes, in college a bunch of us escorted anyone in my sisters sorority house to planned parenthood any time they needed birth control.  That was our normal Saturday and it didn’t always go well.
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
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    joseph33joseph33 Washington DC Posts: 1,225
    edited June 2022
    In the words of Dave Chappelle,"Fellas,if you have a dick,maybe you should shut the fuck up on this one."My heart and thoughts are with all women who this decision has impacted.
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