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Roe v Wade

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    OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 4,839
    TBH if stuff like gay marriage is back on the table now as Thomas has indicated it’s up to the most liberal states (Massachusetts, California, Hawaii) to ban heterosexual marriage and specifically allow homosexual marriage just to make a point

    at some point the liberals need to pass laws directly aimed at conservatives 

    Heterosexuals  being targeted as second class citizens drives that point home.  If gay marriage isn’t a protected right according to Thomas, you can’t then argue heterosexual marriage is as what they are saying is marriage itself isn’t a protected right and it’s up to states to determine what marriage even is 

    liberals need to do the exact same thing conservative are 


    They've already conjured up in their minds that men, whites, cis, heterosexuals, etc. are constantly being victimized. So actually targeting them would not really change the mood.
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    PP193448PP193448 Here Posts: 4,281
    if the constitution doesn't explicitly state abortion, making it overturnable, the constitution doesn't explicitly state what type of arms either, making that overturnable. 

    muskets only. fuck em. everyone else? 10 year prison term. or castration. you choose. 
    We need term limits for Congress and Courts.  No permanent politicians paid off by lobbyists and big corp.  And ignore the extreme left and extreme right.
    2006 Clev,Pitt; 2008 NY MSGx2; 2010 Columbus; 2012 Missoula; 2013 Phoenix,Vancouver,Seattle; 2014 Cincy; 2016 Lex, Wrigley 1&2; 2018 Wrigley 1&2; 2022 Louisville
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    Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited June 2022
    OnWis97 said:
    TBH if stuff like gay marriage is back on the table now as Thomas has indicated it’s up to the most liberal states (Massachusetts, California, Hawaii) to ban heterosexual marriage and specifically allow homosexual marriage just to make a point

    at some point the liberals need to pass laws directly aimed at conservatives 

    Heterosexuals  being targeted as second class citizens drives that point home.  If gay marriage isn’t a protected right according to Thomas, you can’t then argue heterosexual marriage is as what they are saying is marriage itself isn’t a protected right and it’s up to states to determine what marriage even is 

    liberals need to do the exact same thing conservative are 


    They've already conjured up in their minds that men, whites, cis, heterosexuals, etc. are constantly being victimized. So actually targeting them would not really change the mood.
    I would rather a law banning heterosexual marriage get to the Supreme Court than a law banning gay marriage as it forces them to actually  decide if marriage is a right or not and I’m sure they would then say states can’t restrict who can get married if that happened. Thus protecting gay marriage vs saying it’s up to states to decide.  As if states decide it’s usually to target gays, not straight people.  You would force the courts hand to actively prevent states from deciding who can be married 

    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
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    HobbesHobbes Pacific Northwest Posts: 6,413
    PP193448 said:
    Hobbes said:
    Hobbes said:
    First time the court has overturned a constitutional right. Thomas now taking aim at contraception, same sex relationships, and same sex marriage. Hey, CT, wonder what originalists think about interracial marriage.
    It was never a constitutional right though was it?  It was a ruling that set a precedent.  It never did become a law or amendment.
    In their dissent, the three judges wrote, "Roe and Casey were from the beginning, and are even more now, embedded in core constitutional concepts of individual freedom, and of the equal rights of citizens to decide on the shape of their lives."
    Sad thing is that statement is so generic that it could be applied to people carrying guns for protection, even more now with increase in crime and defunding of police. 
    Just one line from a 66 page document. The dissenting opinion speaks specifically to reproductive rights.
    Dobbs dissent - DocumentCloud
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    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,042
    My daughter who’s 25 just texted me she’s in Colorado, she texted Supreme Court just overturned Roe we need to leave this country! I’m thinking if she really wants too I’ll oblige her and will look at how to get it done Chile is not a bad option for us! 
    Colorado won’t ban abortion. 
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    mace1229mace1229 Posts: 9,042
    Here we go 

    Justice Clarence Thomas, concurring with the majority ruling, explicitly called on the Supreme Court to overrule Griswold, which protects the right to contraception, Lawrence, the right to same-sex intimacy and Obergefell, the right to same-sex marriage.

    He wants to 
    1. Allow states to ban birth control
    2. Allow states to make gay sex a crime punishable by prison 
    3. Allow states to outlaw same sex marriage 

    He said it right in the opinion… in writing 
    and you can bet many states will do all 3 as soon as they can 
    since when is the SCOTUS an activist organization? they are supposed to rule/opine on things brought forth to them, not issues they deem worthy of exploration. unbelievable. 
    Was this not brought forth to them? I thought this all came about because Mississippi was trying to pass a 15-week ban on abortions and it just kept going up the chain until it reached the SC. That’s the only explanation I’ve heard, not that they just felt like exploring and ruling or Roe.
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    Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited June 2022
    mace1229 said:
    My daughter who’s 25 just texted me she’s in Colorado, she texted Supreme Court just overturned Roe we need to leave this country! I’m thinking if she really wants too I’ll oblige her and will look at how to get it done Chile is not a bad option for us! 
    Colorado won’t ban abortion. 
    Congress will.  You’ve got 2 years 

    if republicans get both chambers and the presidency it’s happening 
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    static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    PP193448 said:
    if the constitution doesn't explicitly state abortion, making it overturnable, the constitution doesn't explicitly state what type of arms either, making that overturnable. 

    muskets only. fuck em. everyone else? 10 year prison term. or castration. you choose. 
    We need term limits for Congress and Courts.  No permanent politicians paid off by lobbyists and big corp.  And ignore the extreme left and extreme right.
    those sound like ideas that the extreme left has been touting for quite some time.
    Scio me nihil scire

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    josevolutionjosevolution Posts: 28,430
    mace1229 said:
    My daughter who’s 25 just texted me she’s in Colorado, she texted Supreme Court just overturned Roe we need to leave this country! I’m thinking if she really wants too I’ll oblige her and will look at how to get it done Chile is not a bad option for us! 
    Colorado won’t ban abortion. 
    Congress will.  You’ve got 2 years 

    if republicans get both chambers and the presidency it’s happening 
    Plenty of time to plan it out! 
    jesus greets me looks just like me ....
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    HobbesHobbes Pacific Northwest Posts: 6,413
    mace1229 said:
    Here we go 

    Justice Clarence Thomas, concurring with the majority ruling, explicitly called on the Supreme Court to overrule Griswold, which protects the right to contraception, Lawrence, the right to same-sex intimacy and Obergefell, the right to same-sex marriage.

    He wants to 
    1. Allow states to ban birth control
    2. Allow states to make gay sex a crime punishable by prison 
    3. Allow states to outlaw same sex marriage 

    He said it right in the opinion… in writing 
    and you can bet many states will do all 3 as soon as they can 
    since when is the SCOTUS an activist organization? they are supposed to rule/opine on things brought forth to them, not issues they deem worthy of exploration. unbelievable. 
    Was this not brought forth to them? I thought this all came about because Mississippi was trying to pass a 15-week ban on abortions and it just kept going up the chain until it reached the SC. That’s the only explanation I’ve heard, not that they just felt like exploring and ruling or Roe.
    Yes, Dobbs was brought forth. However, Thomas is advocating that Griswold, Lawrence, and Obergefell should be brought forth. 
  • Options
    Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited June 2022
    mace1229 said:
    Here we go 

    Justice Clarence Thomas, concurring with the majority ruling, explicitly called on the Supreme Court to overrule Griswold, which protects the right to contraception, Lawrence, the right to same-sex intimacy and Obergefell, the right to same-sex marriage.

    He wants to 
    1. Allow states to ban birth control
    2. Allow states to make gay sex a crime punishable by prison 
    3. Allow states to outlaw same sex marriage 

    He said it right in the opinion… in writing 
    and you can bet many states will do all 3 as soon as they can 
    since when is the SCOTUS an activist organization? they are supposed to rule/opine on things brought forth to them, not issues they deem worthy of exploration. unbelievable. 
    Was this not brought forth to them? I thought this all came about because Mississippi was trying to pass a 15-week ban on abortions and it just kept going up the chain until it reached the SC. That’s the only explanation I’ve heard, not that they just felt like exploring and ruling or Roe.
    The lawyer representing Mississippi was asked why he was bringing the case.  He specifically said because the court has changed 

    that’s why this has been litigated for 40 years. Trying to get a court to change their mind. They only had to win once.

    they  lost that argument over and over though until now.  By definition the decision out of the norm is the activist judging. 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
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    tempo_n_groovetempo_n_groove Posts: 39,323
    Hobbes said:
    Hobbes said:
    First time the court has overturned a constitutional right. Thomas now taking aim at contraception, same sex relationships, and same sex marriage. Hey, CT, wonder what originalists think about interracial marriage.
    It was never a constitutional right though was it?  It was a ruling that set a precedent.  It never did become a law or amendment.
    In their dissent, the three judges wrote, "Roe and Casey were from the beginning, and are even more now, embedded in core constitutional concepts of individual freedom, and of the equal rights of citizens to decide on the shape of their lives."
    The 3 that didn't want it wrote that.  The others obviously felt different.

    Court decisions obviously mean nothing.  You have to have bills and amendments now.  This can be a good thing if more and more states actually pass it as a bill for their states.  The ones that won't it will be hard going for a bit.
  • Options
    OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 4,839
    OnWis97 said:
    TBH if stuff like gay marriage is back on the table now as Thomas has indicated it’s up to the most liberal states (Massachusetts, California, Hawaii) to ban heterosexual marriage and specifically allow homosexual marriage just to make a point

    at some point the liberals need to pass laws directly aimed at conservatives 

    Heterosexuals  being targeted as second class citizens drives that point home.  If gay marriage isn’t a protected right according to Thomas, you can’t then argue heterosexual marriage is as what they are saying is marriage itself isn’t a protected right and it’s up to states to determine what marriage even is 

    liberals need to do the exact same thing conservative are 


    They've already conjured up in their minds that men, whites, cis, heterosexuals, etc. are constantly being victimized. So actually targeting them would not really change the mood.
    I would rather a law banning heterosexual marriage get to the Supreme Court than a law banning gay marriage as it forces them to actually  decide if marriage is a right or not and I’m sure they would then say states can’t restrict who can get married if that happened. Thus protecting gay marriage vs saying it’s up to states to decide.  As if states decide it’s usually to target gays, not straight people.  You would force the courts hand to actively prevent states from deciding who can be married 

    That's an interesting point. I can't see any state getting that far with a law that's pretty much created to make a point. Particularly SCOTUS could strike it down and maintain gay marriage bans because God.
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    PP193448PP193448 Here Posts: 4,281
    static111 said:
    PP193448 said:
    if the constitution doesn't explicitly state abortion, making it overturnable, the constitution doesn't explicitly state what type of arms either, making that overturnable. 

    muskets only. fuck em. everyone else? 10 year prison term. or castration. you choose. 
    We need term limits for Congress and Courts.  No permanent politicians paid off by lobbyists and big corp.  And ignore the extreme left and extreme right.
    those sound like ideas that the extreme left has been touting for quite some time.
    OK.  Then maybe only listen to the good ideas… 😜
    2006 Clev,Pitt; 2008 NY MSGx2; 2010 Columbus; 2012 Missoula; 2013 Phoenix,Vancouver,Seattle; 2014 Cincy; 2016 Lex, Wrigley 1&2; 2018 Wrigley 1&2; 2022 Louisville
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    CM189191CM189191 Minneapolis via Chicago Posts: 6,802
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    cutzcutz Posts: 11,543
    edited June 2022
    GlowGirl said:
    I am devastated, but not surprised. So in two days this court gave more people the right to carry and conceal guns, and took away the right to a safe and legal abortion for many. Tragedy all around.
    I feel the same.

    Just when you think this Country can't go more backwards, they manage to go even farther back.
    Post edited by cutz on
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    HobbesHobbes Pacific Northwest Posts: 6,413
    Hobbes said:
    Hobbes said:
    First time the court has overturned a constitutional right. Thomas now taking aim at contraception, same sex relationships, and same sex marriage. Hey, CT, wonder what originalists think about interracial marriage.
    It was never a constitutional right though was it?  It was a ruling that set a precedent.  It never did become a law or amendment.
    In their dissent, the three judges wrote, "Roe and Casey were from the beginning, and are even more now, embedded in core constitutional concepts of individual freedom, and of the equal rights of citizens to decide on the shape of their lives."
    The 3 that didn't want it wrote that.  The others obviously felt different.

    Court decisions obviously mean nothing.  You have to have bills and amendments now.  This can be a good thing if more and more states actually pass it as a bill for their states.  The ones that won't it will be hard going for a bit.
    Not only these three judges. Different incarnations of the court for the last 50 years have upheld the notion that reproductive rights are a constitutional right.
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    PP193448PP193448 Here Posts: 4,281
    CM189191 said:
    It’s really the consequence of not making legitimate reproductive laws through Congress since 1973.  Why has this not been done???  
    2006 Clev,Pitt; 2008 NY MSGx2; 2010 Columbus; 2012 Missoula; 2013 Phoenix,Vancouver,Seattle; 2014 Cincy; 2016 Lex, Wrigley 1&2; 2018 Wrigley 1&2; 2022 Louisville
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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,051
    mace1229 said:
    Here we go 

    Justice Clarence Thomas, concurring with the majority ruling, explicitly called on the Supreme Court to overrule Griswold, which protects the right to contraception, Lawrence, the right to same-sex intimacy and Obergefell, the right to same-sex marriage.

    He wants to 
    1. Allow states to ban birth control
    2. Allow states to make gay sex a crime punishable by prison 
    3. Allow states to outlaw same sex marriage 

    He said it right in the opinion… in writing 
    and you can bet many states will do all 3 as soon as they can 
    since when is the SCOTUS an activist organization? they are supposed to rule/opine on things brought forth to them, not issues they deem worthy of exploration. unbelievable. 
    Was this not brought forth to them? I thought this all came about because Mississippi was trying to pass a 15-week ban on abortions and it just kept going up the chain until it reached the SC. That’s the only explanation I’ve heard, not that they just felt like exploring and ruling or Roe.
    i was referring to the other things thomas stated he wanted to address. birth control, same sex. 
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    Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited June 2022
    Just wait until legitimate miscarriages are treated as suspicious 

    if life begins at conception a murder investigation is mandatory.  Louisiana is passing a law that defines life as just that 

    further victimisation of women who actually wanted a baby.  

    If you start bleeding do you call the hospital or the police first? Get treatment or rule yourself out as a suspect? 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
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    CROJAM95CROJAM95 Posts: 9,474
    Ginni & ACB are gonna have a great time at the next CULT Meeting

    Fuckin GINNI....Go fuck yourself, and that dumbass nickname. He should be kicked out ASAP per her nonsense with Trump

    In 24hrs the Court showed everyone we arent much better than Russia, how Ironic
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    static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    PP193448 said:
    CM189191 said:
    It’s really the consequence of not making legitimate reproductive laws through Congress since 1973.  Why has this not been done???  
    Because of Bernie obviously
    Scio me nihil scire

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    static111static111 Posts: 4,889
    CROJAM95 said:
    Ginni & ACB are gonna have a great time at the next CULT Meeting

    Fuckin GINNI....Go fuck yourself, and that dumbass nickname. He should be kicked out ASAP per her nonsense with Trump

    In 24hrs the Court showed everyone we arent much better than Russia, how Ironic
    Were some people still living in this illusion?
    Scio me nihil scire

    There are no kings inside the gates of eden
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    Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 36,941
    dankind said:
    dankind said:
    Thanks Bernie. Nice job.
    Is this a joke? I don't know about where you live, but Bernie wasn't on the ballot here. I suppose folks could've written him in...?
    Would Hillary have given us the three stooges of SCOTUS appointments? Don’t know where you live but Bernie’s failure to endorse Hillary and pretending he could beat POOTWH and be elected as a socialist certainly bears responsibility for today’s and future decisions. The Bernie protest voters own this.
    I thought that he did endorse Hillary, albeit coldly, similar to his Biden endorsement. So I Googled it, and the headlines on July 12, 2016, were that that this endorsement did indeed take place in an effort to “unite” the party. 

    Anyway, I never considered voting for him because of my ageism. But I didn’t know that there was a large contingent of Bernie protest voters, so I Googled it. Turns out, there wasn’t. A weak queef of 0.08% of the vote tally was Bernie write-ins. Not even a dent. Maybe a scratch? The Nader shamers (and Nader voter shamers) maybe kinda sorta had a political point to make in 2000 because he was on the ballot and received an earth-shattering 2.74% of the vote, not even enough to get his fledgling party federal funding. 

    Is this more of an influence in the zeitgeist/cult of personality thing that you’re blaming him for? Because that seems misdirected. The media (Russian-tainted social media included, of course, in 2016) and the electorate play larger roles than the individual politician there, I’d argue.

    And I genuinely thought you might be joking in the old “thanks, Obama” vein, but I saw other posters pointing the finger in his (and his supporters’) general direction as well and then began to wonder if you were. 

    Thanks for the explanation. 
    Its not that voters wrote Bernie in as a protest vote, its that Bernie's "cold" endorsement and his supporters sour grapes, i.e. the #neverhillary crowd that Bernie spawned, either voted POOTWH, third party or stayed home. And this is what it got them. 6%-12% of Bernie supporters ended up voting POOTWH. I don't know what the number of total Bernie supporters is/was but I'd fathom a brain fart that 6%-12% of whatever number it is, would have been enough to put Hillary in the White House and maybe, just maybe, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

    Good day.

    PS: Don't get pregnant unless you want to.

    1 In 10 Bernie Sanders Supporters Ended Up Voting For Trump : NPR



    New data is shedding light, however, on Sanders’s role in the last election — and on how many Sanders voters ended up supporting Trump. It’s a question many in the party will be asking about a candidate who may want to compete again for the Democratic nomination.

    How many Sanders voters voted for Donald Trump?

    Two surveys estimate that 12 percent of Sanders voters voted for Trump. A third survey suggests it was 6 percent.

    First, the political scientist Brian Schaffner analyzed the Cooperative Congressional Election Study, which was conducted by YouGov and interviewed 64,600 Americans in October-November 2016. In that survey, Schaffner found that 12 percent of people who voted in the primary and reported voting for Sanders also voted in November and reported voting for Trump.

    Schaffner examined only voters whose turnout in the primary and general election could be validated using voter file data. This excludes people who said they voted but actually did not — although it also excludes people who voted in caucuses or party-run primaries, for which validated turnout data are not as readily available.

    Second, the same 12 percent figure emerges in the 2016 VOTER Survey, which was also conducted by YouGov and overseen by the Democracy Fund Voter Study Group (of which I am research director). In 2016, this survey interviewed 8,000 respondents in July, when they were asked their primary vote preference, and then in December, when they were asked their general election preference. This has the advantage of measuring primary preference closer to the primaries themselves and then tracking people over time. But their turnout in both elections has not been validated as of yet.

    The third survey is the RAND Presidential Election Panel Survey, which interviewed the same group of about 3,000 Americans six times during the campaign. Again, this survey has the advantage of tracking voters over time, but nobody’s turnout has been validated. Among voters who reported supporting Sanders as of March 2016, 6 percent then reported voting for Trump in November.

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    Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    PP193448 said:
    CM189191 said:
    It’s really the consequence of not making legitimate reproductive laws through Congress since 1973.  Why has this not been done???  
    Why would you.

    Roe v Wade was the law. Congress could have codified it specifically since then, but it has always been a divisive issue.  Why vote on something you don’t have to?

    you couldn’t even get a law making lynching a federal crime until recently.  If you can’t get people to take a vote on that, how in the world are you getting them to vote on codifying abortion when they don’t have to 

     
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    gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,264
    white evangelicals will not stop until they oppress the whole world.
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    gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin Louis Posts: 22,264
    so, just to sum up the supreme court's week this week:

    life begins at conception and ends in a mass shooting.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
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    HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 36,051
    so, just to sum up the supreme court's week this week:

    life begins at conception and ends in a mass shooting.
    EVERY DEMOCRAT SHOULD USE THAT IN THEIR POLITICAL ATTACK ADS
    Flight Risk out NOW!

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    Cropduster-80Cropduster-80 Posts: 2,034
    edited June 2022
    so, just to sum up the supreme court's week this week:

    life begins at conception and ends in a mass shooting.
    Yep.

    I just don’t see how they can be so passionate about protecting the  unborn and then leave it at that 

    once they are born, they do absolutely everything they can to fight anything aimed at  making sure they are fed, clothed, have access to healthcare, fund their schools at a reasonable level,  or make sure they are reasonably protected at school or anywhere else.

    it’s the governments responsibility to make sure they are born. After that the government has no role 
    Post edited by Cropduster-80 on
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    Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 16,782
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