Ukraine

mrussel1

gimmesometruth27 said:

anybody keeping up with the atrocities committed by retreating russian soldiers? killing civilians. over 400 bodies found with hands tied, gunshots to the head, and mutilated children's bodies. also killed all the pets. fuck russia.

Yes.  Fuck Russia.  They have committed atrocities against Ukrainians for generations.  This is why Uke will never submit,  not matter how much Putin deludes himself into thinking they want to be part of Russia. 

Spiritual_Chaos

gimmesometruth27 said:

anybody keeping up with the atrocities committed by retreating russian soldiers? killing civilians. over 400 bodies found with hands tied, gunshots to the head, and mutilated children's bodies. also killed all the pets. fuck russia.

Too bad the US is standing against the ICC and investigations into their own war actions (warcrimes). 

The global community should stand united with the ICC and their investigation into this. 

lastexitlondon

Putin is holding the  world to ransom. Nobody will go near him for fear of nukes

Spiritual_Chaos

The fundraising gala "Hela Sverige skramlar" (the whole of Sweden gives what they can) has so far raised a total of SEK 75.8 million in favor of Ukraine. This makes the gala the largest fundraising gala ever in Sweden, the organizers said in a press release.

static111

Spiritual_Chaos said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

anybody keeping up with the atrocities committed by retreating russian soldiers? killing civilians. over 400 bodies found with hands tied, gunshots to the head, and mutilated children's bodies. also killed all the pets. fuck russia.

Too bad the US is standing against the ICC and investigations into their own war actions (warcrimes). 

The global community should stand united with the ICC and their investigation into this. 

I'm really hoping that the US looks at the situation in Ukraine as a mirror to our blunders in spreading democracy around the world through force.  Maybe we will learn something.  Doubtful though, the Patriotism here is just too strong.

mrussel1

static111 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

anybody keeping up with the atrocities committed by retreating russian soldiers? killing civilians. over 400 bodies found with hands tied, gunshots to the head, and mutilated children's bodies. also killed all the pets. fuck russia.

Too bad the US is standing against the ICC and investigations into their own war actions (warcrimes). 

The global community should stand united with the ICC and their investigation into this. 

I'm really hoping that the US looks at the situation in Ukraine as a mirror to our blunders in spreading democracy around the world through force.  Maybe we will learn something.  Doubtful though, the Patriotism here is just too strong.

Well now the many Republicans have swung way over the other way into isolationism.  I would love to have them listen to their arguments from 20 years ago.  It's pathetic how some people follow.  The Democrats, for all of their sins, are pretty consistent in the foreign policy view.

Halifax2TheMax

The invasion of Iraq shattered what little moral authority the US had left to be defenders of democracy and against foreign, unprovoked attacks against adversaries. 

Spiritual_Chaos

Starting to sound like a Russian troll farm trying to topple the proud american democracy in here. 



Anyways, will be interesting with the Swedish election till fall. If NATO will be a/the big topic. I'm guessing it will be.

The right want to join NATO before some  big meeting NATO has in May, and if they are elected this fall they have promised to join NATO with even just one vote win in parliament. While the Social Demcorats say it might not even be legal to the constitutions to join in that manner, and also that NATO demand nations who join to have a clear and strong majority supporting it. What the Fins will do is also interesting. And people argue that the Fins will not join NATO without Sweden doing it at the same time - walking in "hand in hand" like we did with the EU.

We'll see. Interesting. 

Joining a nuclear war collation in 2022? What is the world coming to.

Halifax2TheMax

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Starting to sound like a Russian troll farm trying to topple the proud american democracy in here. 



Anyways, will be interesting with the Swedish election till fall. If NATO will be a/the big topic. I'm guessing it will be.

The right want to join NATO before some  big meeting NATO has in May, and if they are elected this fall they have promised to join NATO with even just one vote win in parliament. While the Social Demcorats say it might not even be legal to the constitutions to join in that manner, and also that NATO demand nations who join to have a clear and strong majority supporting it. What the Fins will do is also interesting. And people argue that the Fins will not join NATO without Sweden doing it at the same time - walking in "hand in hand" like we did with the EU.

We'll see. Interesting. 

Joining a nuclear war collation in 2022? What is the world coming to.

Russian troll farms spread disinformation and untruths. What recent posts meet that criteria?

Ledbetterman10

Biden: Putin should face war crimes trial for Bucha (msn.com)

Spiritual_Chaos

Ledbetterman10 said:

Biden: Putin should face war crimes trial for Bucha (msn.com)

Yes he should. But again, the US should take a backseat. "Sopa framför sin egen dörr" first, as we say in Sweden.

In April 2019, the United States revoked the visa of the Prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, Fatou Bensouda, in anticipation of a later investigation into possible war crimes committed by U.S. forces during the War in Afghanistan;[50] the investigation was authorized in March 2020.[51] In June 2020, Donald Trump authorized sanctions against ICC in retaliation for the aforementioned case.[52]

mrussel1

Ledbetterman10 said:

Biden: Putin should face war crimes trial for Bucha (msn.com)

He's a criminal.  He was a criminal before, the way he loots his country, Georgia, Chechnya, etc. 

Lerxst1992

Bush’s invasion of Iraq was disgusting but it’s wrong to compare that to Russia now. Iraq harbored terrorists, was a bloody dictatorship and Saddam used WMDs against citizens of his own country.

Spiritual_Chaos

Lerxst1992 said:

Bush’s invasion of Iraq was disgusting but it’s wrong to compare that to Russia now. Iraq harbored terrorists, was a bloody dictatorship and Saddam used WMDs against citizens of his own country.

All relative regarding a comparison.

According to a 2010 assessment by John Sloboda, director of Iraq Body Count, U.S. and Coalition forces had killed at least 22,668 insurgents as well as 13,807 civilians in the Iraq War, 

brianlux

mrussel1 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

anybody keeping up with the atrocities committed by retreating russian soldiers? killing civilians. over 400 bodies found with hands tied, gunshots to the head, and mutilated children's bodies. also killed all the pets. fuck russia.

Yes.  Fuck Russia.  They have committed atrocities against Ukrainians for generations.  This is why Uke will never submit,  not matter how much Putin deludes himself into thinking they want to be part of Russia. 

Yes, second that, fuck Russia.  And now both Serbia and  Hungary have re-elected pro-Putin incumbents.  And according to the NY Times, it is possible France could go the same way.  The Times said, "A bigger test will occur this month in France, which will hold its own presidential election — and where a victory by the far-right candidate would be a geopolitical earthquake." 

So no wonder some times I just want to say, "Fuck the world." 

Will democracy survive?  I don't know.  I just don't know.

If you can read it:  https://messaging-custom-newsletters.nytimes.com/template/oakv2?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20220404&instance_id=57547&nl=the-morning&productCode=NN&regi_id=184825161&segment_id=87447&te=1&uri=nyt://newsletter/433be088-11d8-5e85-885a-63ec072f4bc9&user_id=6b7dc0622ac2e3522867b427d4960ea8

mickeyrat

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

anybody keeping up with the atrocities committed by retreating russian soldiers? killing civilians. over 400 bodies found with hands tied, gunshots to the head, and mutilated children's bodies. also killed all the pets. fuck russia.

Yes.  Fuck Russia.  They have committed atrocities against Ukrainians for generations.  This is why Uke will never submit,  not matter how much Putin deludes himself into thinking they want to be part of Russia. 

Yes, second that, fuck Russia.  And now both Serbia and  Hungary have re-elected pro-Putin incumbents.  And according to the NY Times, it is possible France could go the same way.  The Times said, "A bigger test will occur this month in France, which will hold its own presidential election — and where a victory by the far-right candidate would be a geopolitical earthquake." 

So no wonder some times I just want to say, "Fuck the world." 

Will democracy survive?  I don't know.  I just don't know.

If you can read it:  https://messaging-custom-newsletters.nytimes.com/template/oakv2?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20220404&instance_id=57547&nl=the-morning&productCode=NN&regi_id=184825161&segment_id=87447&te=1&uri=nyt://newsletter/433be088-11d8-5e85-885a-63ec072f4bc9&user_id=6b7dc0622ac2e3522867b427d4960ea8

brian, look for the gift box icon next to the share icon. subscribers can gift up to 10 articles a month.

mrussel1

brianlux said:

mrussel1 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

anybody keeping up with the atrocities committed by retreating russian soldiers? killing civilians. over 400 bodies found with hands tied, gunshots to the head, and mutilated children's bodies. also killed all the pets. fuck russia.

Yes.  Fuck Russia.  They have committed atrocities against Ukrainians for generations.  This is why Uke will never submit,  not matter how much Putin deludes himself into thinking they want to be part of Russia. 

Yes, second that, fuck Russia.  And now both Serbia and  Hungary have re-elected pro-Putin incumbents.  And according to the NY Times, it is possible France could go the same way.  The Times said, "A bigger test will occur this month in France, which will hold its own presidential election — and where a victory by the far-right candidate would be a geopolitical earthquake." 

So no wonder some times I just want to say, "Fuck the world." 

Will democracy survive?  I don't know.  I just don't know.

If you can read it:  https://messaging-custom-newsletters.nytimes.com/template/oakv2?campaign_id=9&emc=edit_nn_20220404&instance_id=57547&nl=the-morning&productCode=NN&regi_id=184825161&segment_id=87447&te=1&uri=nyt://newsletter/433be088-11d8-5e85-885a-63ec072f4bc9&user_id=6b7dc0622ac2e3522867b427d4960ea8

So yes, it appears Orban won.  He has been limiting democracy for several years now.  He has, however, come out against Russia's invasion, although there is no doubt that his politics are closer to Putin's than Biden's.  The difference is though, that Hungary is not going to expand their borders.  They are focused on closing them. 

And agreed on Serbia too, but this is no surprise.  They have been closely aligned to Russia for hundreds of years, directly leading to WWI.  The risk with them, of course, is a repeat of 1997 where someone like Milosevic starts a genocidal war again.

I would be shocked SHOCKED if Macron loses Le Pen.  That would be an unmitigated disaster for liberal democracies.  I don't see it happening, but we didn't see Trump either. 

Spiritual_Chaos

mrussel1 said:

He has, however, come out against Russia's invasion, 

I do wonder if that was more about sticking a finger up in the air and see how the wind blows just before the election. Let's see how he acts now when he is safe for a few years. 

But having a strong European cooperation, would be important for Hungary too.

But I do not know Orban or Hungarian politics. So, that might be completely baseless. 

I've heard Budapest is beautiful though.

tempo_n_groove

Did anybody watch 60 minutes?  They showed Russia targeting hospitals and carpet bombed/shelled a whole city.  Mariupol is the city.  Look at pics of the place now, it's un believable.

gimmesometruth27

Spiritual_Chaos said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

anybody keeping up with the atrocities committed by retreating russian soldiers? killing civilians. over 400 bodies found with hands tied, gunshots to the head, and mutilated children's bodies. also killed all the pets. fuck russia.

Too bad the US is standing against the ICC and investigations into their own war actions (warcrimes). 

The global community should stand united with the ICC and their investigation into this. 

i am not sure what you are implying in quoting me, but the us should be investigated too. bush, cheney, and the neocons should have all been brought to trial at the hague. i have been saying that for 19 years.