back 'home' in the Uk for a bit. Really looking forward to a few weeks of big meetings and hitting more than one a week. It helped me so much last year.
Hi all...I was wondering...I know it's probably different for everyone, but is it possible to be in touch with the same people who may or may not be still using after you get clean? I'm really worried that my daughter is going to come home after rehab and still associate with some of her friends - who are trying to get clean too. I just don't think it's a good idea even if they are clean because they can just be bad news together and relapse together.....this is what happened last time too. I really want her stay away from here for at least 6 mos or longer until she is sure can say NO for the rest of her life.....if that's even possible. But already (she just left for rehab Sunday) she's calling me and saying she doesn't want to stay in FL and go to a halfway house. I really don't want her to come home at all actually.....because I know that I enable her to a certain extent. She's almost 21 and I think it's about time she learned to be independent. But because of her other issues, I've kind of always done everything for her. It's just so hard because I don't want to see her fall on her face and have things get worse.
No time to be void or save up on life...you've got to spend it all.
Hi all...I was wondering...I know it's probably different for everyone, but is it possible to be in touch with the same people who may or may not be still using after you get clean? I'm really worried that my daughter is going to come home after rehab and still associate with some of her friends - who are trying to get clean too. I just don't think it's a good idea even if they are clean because they can just be bad news together and relapse together.....this is what happened last time too. I really want her stay away from here for at least 6 mos or longer until she is sure can say NO for the rest of her life.....if that's even possible. But already (she just left for rehab Sunday) she's calling me and saying she doesn't want to stay in FL and go to a halfway house. I really don't want her to come home at all actually.....because I know that I enable her to a certain extent. She's almost 21 and I think it's about time she learned to be independent. But because of her other issues, I've kind of always done everything for her. It's just so hard because I don't want to see her fall on her face and have things get worse.
Tough love is hard, but necessary, my parents did the best thing ever for me by kicking me out and even though I lived in my car, and threw that fact in their faces every chance I got, they never backed down; forcing me to learn to negotiate a budget, and spending habits so that I kept a roof over my head. ( One BTW that wasn't attached to a car!) I learned my lesson, and now-a-days do NOT hold this against my parents.. as a matter of fact I'm glad they did it.. If they hadn't I would not haver learned the hard life lessons I learned in that decade.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,872
Hi all...I was wondering...I know it's probably different for everyone, but is it possible to be in touch with the same people who may or may not be still using after you get clean? I'm really worried that my daughter is going to come home after rehab and still associate with some of her friends - who are trying to get clean too. I just don't think it's a good idea even if they are clean because they can just be bad news together and relapse together.....this is what happened last time too. I really want her stay away from here for at least 6 mos or longer until she is sure can say NO for the rest of her life.....if that's even possible. But already (she just left for rehab Sunday) she's calling me and saying she doesn't want to stay in FL and go to a halfway house. I really don't want her to come home at all actually.....because I know that I enable her to a certain extent. She's almost 21 and I think it's about time she learned to be independent. But because of her other issues, I've kind of always done everything for her. It's just so hard because I don't want to see her fall on her face and have things get worse.
First things first. Let her stay sober today. And then let her do that every day. Rest of her life is too immense a task. Its enough to stay sober today.
I would put your foot down though and tell her she cant come back to the rehab is complete.
It wasnt until I made changes that I could have ant kind of relationship with family and the few friends I had left.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Hi all...I was wondering...I know it's probably different for everyone, but is it possible to be in touch with the same people who may or may not be still using after you get clean? I'm really worried that my daughter is going to come home after rehab and still associate with some of her friends - who are trying to get clean too. I just don't think it's a good idea even if they are clean because they can just be bad news together and relapse together.....this is what happened last time too. I really want her stay away from here for at least 6 mos or longer until she is sure can say NO for the rest of her life.....if that's even possible. But already (she just left for rehab Sunday) she's calling me and saying she doesn't want to stay in FL and go to a halfway house. I really don't want her to come home at all actually.....because I know that I enable her to a certain extent. She's almost 21 and I think it's about time she learned to be independent. But because of her other issues, I've kind of always done everything for her. It's just so hard because I don't want to see her fall on her face and have things get worse.
I agree that it's different for everyone. How your daughter handles certain situations will depend on too many factors to list, foresee, or control.
I went through treatment twice: once as a teenager (after a suicide attempt; I didn't feel I had a problem with drinking or drugs at all), and once at 23 years old.
The first time through, I was told not to associate with any friends from my "old life" for a period of 6 months. So what did I do? I found new friends. Problem: Solved!
The second time through (when I was really, really done with drinking, and desperate to stay sober), I was told to "change my playground and playmates." Which I did, out of sheer desperation.
I know that, for me, cutting ties quickly and completely did help solidify that my life was now different. I believe it also helped me to immerse myself in what I needed to be concentrating on, and to spend time with people who were engaged in the same pursuits.
I'm painfully shy, and if I had the choice of meeting and talking with strangers or going over to an old friend's house, I would choose the latter; if I had had that choice during the first year or so of my sobriety, I cannot say with any certainty that I would have made it. This is, of course, not to say that it could not be done. Just my experience.
Hi all...I was wondering...I know it's probably different for everyone, but is it possible to be in touch with the same people who may or may not be still using after you get clean? I'm really worried that my daughter is going to come home after rehab and still associate with some of her friends - who are trying to get clean too. I just don't think it's a good idea even if they are clean because they can just be bad news together and relapse together.....this is what happened last time too. I really want her stay away from here for at least 6 mos or longer until she is sure can say NO for the rest of her life.....if that's even possible. But already (she just left for rehab Sunday) she's calling me and saying she doesn't want to stay in FL and go to a halfway house. I really don't want her to come home at all actually.....because I know that I enable her to a certain extent. She's almost 21 and I think it's about time she learned to be independent. But because of her other issues, I've kind of always done everything for her. It's just so hard because I don't want to see her fall on her face and have things get worse.
I found out when I got sober that most relationships with old friends revolved around drink and/or drugs to a degree which I hadn't previously noticed. It became hard to be friends with a lot of people simply because our meetings had always been about boozing and now the dynamic of the relationship had changed, it lost it's appeal for both sides.
I'm only talking here but I'd say that there are a few sober friends who are still my good friends, some I used to drink with. However, that may be because I got sober in my 30s and a few of these people have settled down with families, got their shit sorted and are mature enough to deal with me as an equal. I'd suggest that most of my friends in my teen years and 20s wouldn't have been mature enough to handle a sober ex-drinking buddy.
Thanks for the input. I know it's going to be so hard for her because she is young and ALL of her friends, even the ones who aren't addicts, are partying to some degree. She's also upset because she won't be able to drink on her 21st birthday...but as I reminded her, she's been doing it for years now anyway so really turning 21 shouldn't be a big deal at this point. And she wasn't much of a drinker anyway...opiates & benzos are her downfall. We have talked briefly a few times this past week and I relayed to her that her one friend is still 'missing'...the girl's mom has called me a few times to see if I've heard anything...she kicked her daughter out after she found out that the girl & her bf stole $3000 from her grandmother. But she hasn't had any contact and is worried sick. My daughter said she knows she has to let the girl go...but she got very emotional as she said it. I feel so bad for all of them...all of these young girls hooked on heroin. It's so sad.
Anyway, she has expressed a desire to go to school...which I think would be great...a good way to meet new people, but still, she'll have to deal with the ones who want to go out and party all the time.
I suppose we are going to just have some very strict rules about what she does...even tho technically she's an adult, if she's living in our house then she must follow rules no matter what age she is. But we've tried so many times...part of the problem is that my husband and I have never really been on the same page or been consistent about rules/consequences which is probably part of the reason things have gotten to this point. Even though I know in my head that I've done the best I can, I still feel guilty...like I've failed her in some way. Ugh.
No time to be void or save up on life...you've got to spend it all.
My friend Elle 's post on her 4 year anniversary:
One crafty mother
One Crafty Mother
1,459 Days - Who I See
Posted: 15 Aug 2011 12:25 PM PDT
She looks back at me with desperation and defiance shining in her eyes.
Somewhere, deep down inside, she knows it's over, but that fact scares her too much, so she hangs onto anger like a shield - a force field - to deflect this hard truth.
She doesn't look like herself, not at all like the woman she pictures in her head, the woman she was for so many years. Her pretty ivory skin is blotchy and bloated, and she can see the beginnings of tiny, pink burst capillaries on her cheeks. She remembers that these are called gin blossoms, and her stomach churns with shame.
There is a slight tremor in her hands; these days it appears if she goes mere hours without a drink. She is vaguely scared at this idea, but not nearly as scared as she is of stopping. She cannot imagine life without alcohol.
I can't give it up, she thinks. It is the only thing holding me together.
Slowly, she ticks through the list she carries in her head - a careworn and dog-eared list of all the reasons she can't possibly be an alcoholic. It's a familiar mantra by now, and it is sounding thin even to her own ears.
The other list - the one she tries not to think about - is getting longer. She pictures the nearly constant disgusted anger in her husband's eyes. She remembers her five year-old daughter's desperate pleas - but Momma, you're ALWAYS sleeping - when requests to read a story or play a game are met with a muffled grunts from beneath the sheets.
She looks back at me and begs me to tell her that she will figure it out, that she will get a handle on her drinking, that she isn't that bad.
Slowly, the defiance drains from her face, and she is left with only desperation. The hard truth lands on her like a stone: you're going to lose everything. You're an alcoholic and you need help.
~~~~~
That woman was me, 1,459 days ago, the day I had my last drink. My husband had just told me I would be heading back to rehab - again - and that he didn't care what happened to me after that. I was sinking, he told me, and he was done. He said he wouldn't let me drag the whole family down with me.
So the afternoon of August 16, 2007 I found myself staring at my own reflection in the mirror, desperate to hang onto the one thing that was ripping my life apart. The chasm between the way I presented myself to the world and the way I felt on the inside had finally opened up and swallowed me whole. It happened quickly. I began the summer with swaggering promises to get help, go to meetings, to stop drinking. All those promises did was drive my drinking deeper underground. I drank on the way to meetings. I drank on the way home. I popped breath mints and drank coffee to disguise the odor on my breath. I spun flimsy webs full of lies, but the only person I was fooling was myself.
In two months I was hospitalized twice and attended two rehabs - one inpatient and one outpatient. I listened to the advice I got, to the stories I heard in meetings and from fellow patients. I wrote copiously in my journal, determined to get a handle on my drinking. I did everything but the one thing I had to do to have a fighting chance at getting sober.
I didn't surrender.
I still believed that there must be something I could do to drink like a normal person. I thought I needed to be stronger, to fight harder, to resist the temptation to keep drinking after one or two. I really believed if I tried hard enough, I would be okay.
In the course of two months my world fell apart, and I stubbornly clung to my right to drink, even as I hurt the people I loved the most. I was so scared. All the time. Scared to keep drinking, and scared to stop.
On August 16, 2007 I looked at my reflection in the mirror and I saw a bloated, desperate shell of my former self. Unshowered, trembling and alone in the world, I finally hit bottom.
I gave up. I went back to rehab - thirty days this time - and I got out of my own way.
Take it, I prayed to whatever-might-be-out-there, take what happens to me out of my stubborn hands.
~~~~~
Today I gazed at my reflection in the mirror and thought about the journey so far.
The face looking back at me is thinner, the crinkly laugh lines around my eyes are more prominent. There is a steely determination in my eyes, as well as an impish glint that wasn't there before.
The woman I see is strong, self-confident, determined. I like her a lot. I've only known her for three years, now - the first year of sobriety was full of anxiety and fear. But slowly, she emerged from the darkness, wove her way into my day-to-day life. Each day without a drink she grew stronger.
The woman in the mirror is also vulnerable. Her emotions ripple right beneath the surface, now that they aren't anesthetized by alcohol and denial. She feels things more strongly: she hurts more deeply, but she loves harder than ever before.
I meet my own gaze and whisper: I love you.
And I do. Not an egotistical I'm-better-than-you love, but a gentle, accepting, motherly kind of love. I treat myself with the same kindness I do others. I have to, because when my disease comes knocking it tells me that I don't measure up, that I need to hide from fear, to anesthetize boredom and anxiety.
I spent years erasing myself from the picture, lost in shame and fear. Every day without a drink I draw those lines back in - with confident strokes and bold colors.
I like what I see. Finally.
"This here's a REQUEST!"
EV intro to Chloe Dancer / Crown of Thorns
10/25/13 Hartford
Holiday this year is good but I'm angry all the time. I know how dangerous that is for me.
I think it is because with three kids and 7 people in the house it is very hard to find a free moment for myself and I am always supposed to be doing something. I know that finding 'me time' is essential but here it feels selfish to find that hour for myself. Need a rethink...
we're all going to the same place...
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,872
Holiday this year is good but I'm angry all the time. I know how dangerous that is for me.
I think it is because with three kids and 7 people in the house it is very hard to find a free moment for myself and I am always supposed to be doing something. I know that finding 'me time' is essential but here it feels selfish to find that hour for myself. Need a rethink...
Thats the beauty of the steps. It REQUIRES some sort of "beneficial to others" selfishness. Taking time out for 10+11 is beneficial to others.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Holiday this year is good but I'm angry all the time. I know how dangerous that is for me.
I think it is because with three kids and 7 people in the house it is very hard to find a free moment for myself and I am always supposed to be doing something. I know that finding 'me time' is essential but here it feels selfish to find that hour for myself. Need a rethink...
Thats the beauty of the steps. It REQUIRES some sort of "beneficial to others" selfishness. Taking time out for 10+11 is beneficial to others.
Sometimes I need to breathe deeply and count to twelve...
I am broke most of the time, because I spend all my money on PJ stuff and other concerts. I really don't understand how alcoholics afford their disease. I only drink once a week, sometimes bi-weekly, and I can barely afford that.
So yesterday at work, I email my wife: "I'd really like to have a couple drinks with you tonight, maybe play some crib, and listen to some music (Uke Songs on vinyl). Would you mind buying a small bottle of Crown on the way home. I PROMISE I'll behave."
She came home with a 13 ounce bottle of Crown and also a bottle of vodka so she could enjoy the occasional paralyzer. It started out ok. I actually measured my drinks (which I never do). One ounce crown, the rest pepsi, small tumbler. I made a conscious decision to wait between drinks so my wife might notice that I'm not jumping up to get my next one. I think about it the whole time though. I just want to get the next one. How much longer do I have to wait? Is she even noticing I'm waiting? How could she not notice? So ridiculous. Normal people don't notice the time in between drinks. That doesn't exist for them.
Three drinks in I'm no longer bothering waiting. At one point I think I got up and my glass wasn't even empty yet.
She went to bed, said she had a nice time, and asked me not to stay up too late. Which is code for "don't drink too much".
I stopped measuring. Before I knew it the bottle was finished.
This morning she said "so you didn't behave yourself last night". I shook my head in shame. I nearly started to cry, but my daughters were near. Every single time I tell myself it's going to be different.
But it never is.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I think all the time, it's a never ending, constant, barrage of thoughts, that I have named "The Marathon of Thought". Some days this turns out to be a singular thought that becomes an obsession, and all must be known about the particular train of thought that has won the race in my head temporarily..So far today, the winner is the thought that I have been having a harder time quitting drinking than, the time I've had quitting smoking cigarettes. I would think that since I'd smoked for WAY longer than I had been drinking, that I would have missed the cigarettes more than the alcohol. But I walked away from cigs so easily like walking away from garbage...However I pass a liquor store and suddenly I find myself having to talk myself out of stopping. Sometimes I pull into the parking lot, and have to talk myself out of getting out of the truck, before I pull back OUT of the parking lot. ( I sometimes have the ability to laugh at what the other liquor store patrons must think of my little game of "In'n Out", but most of the times the close call has me up in arms against myself) Anyhow, just had to get that out..
I am broke most of the time, because I spend all my money on PJ stuff and other concerts. I really don't understand how alcoholics afford their disease. I only drink once a week, sometimes bi-weekly, and I can barely afford that.
So yesterday at work, I email my wife: "I'd really like to have a couple drinks with you tonight, maybe play some crib, and listen to some music (Uke Songs on vinyl). Would you mind buying a small bottle of Crown on the way home. I PROMISE I'll behave."
She came home with a 13 ounce bottle of Crown and also a bottle of vodka so she could enjoy the occasional paralyzer. It started out ok. I actually measured my drinks (which I never do). One ounce crown, the rest pepsi, small tumbler. I made a conscious decision to wait between drinks so my wife might notice that I'm not jumping up to get my next one. I think about it the whole time though. I just want to get the next one. How much longer do I have to wait? Is she even noticing I'm waiting? How could she not notice? So ridiculous. Normal people don't notice the time in between drinks. That doesn't exist for them.
Three drinks in I'm no longer bothering waiting. At one point I think I got up and my glass wasn't even empty yet.
She went to bed, said she had a nice time, and asked me not to stay up too late. Which is code for "don't drink too much".
I stopped measuring. Before I knew it the bottle was finished.
This morning she said "so you didn't behave yourself last night". I shook my head in shame. I nearly started to cry, but my daughters were near. Every single time I tell myself it's going to be different.
But it never is.
Just an expression used in AA circles:
"If you are trying to control your drinking it is already out of control!"
Consider talking to someone in the program or drop in on a nearby AA beginners meeting..
you can call your local AA central service (411 or internet search) for meeting near you.
Tell someone what you posted here..and I promise no one will chase you out into the parking lot.
Good luck
"This here's a REQUEST!"
EV intro to Chloe Dancer / Crown of Thorns
10/25/13 Hartford
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,872
I am broke most of the time, because I spend all my money on PJ stuff and other concerts. I really don't understand how alcoholics afford their disease. I only drink once a week, sometimes bi-weekly, and I can barely afford that.
So yesterday at work, I email my wife: "I'd really like to have a couple drinks with you tonight, maybe play some crib, and listen to some music (Uke Songs on vinyl). Would you mind buying a small bottle of Crown on the way home. I PROMISE I'll behave."
She came home with a 13 ounce bottle of Crown and also a bottle of vodka so she could enjoy the occasional paralyzer. It started out ok. I actually measured my drinks (which I never do). One ounce crown, the rest pepsi, small tumbler. I made a conscious decision to wait between drinks so my wife might notice that I'm not jumping up to get my next one. I think about it the whole time though. I just want to get the next one. How much longer do I have to wait? Is she even noticing I'm waiting? How could she not notice? So ridiculous. Normal people don't notice the time in between drinks. That doesn't exist for them.
Three drinks in I'm no longer bothering waiting. At one point I think I got up and my glass wasn't even empty yet.
She went to bed, said she had a nice time, and asked me not to stay up too late. Which is code for "don't drink too much".
I stopped measuring. Before I knew it the bottle was finished.
This morning she said "so you didn't behave yourself last night". I shook my head in shame. I nearly started to cry, but my daughters were near. Every single time I tell myself it's going to be different.
But it never is.
Hugh,
Dude, alcoholic behaviour for sure. Getting pissed because the normal drinker isnt noticing how you drink? The kicker for me though is this line
"Every single time I tell myself it's going to be different.But it never is." This is what we define as insanity. Doing the same thing over and over , expecting a different result. You may only drink once or twice a week, but what are you thinking about the other 5-6 days of the week?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Normal people don't notice the time in between drinks. That doesn't exist for them.
No, you are right, they don't.
For the last three years of my drinking I was trying to control what I drank because I was jsut married and the waiting time between drinks was killing me.
Currently the waiting time between drinks is 1 year, 11 months and 15 days and that is, rather paradoxically what is keeping me alive.
what are you thinking about the other 5-6 days of the week?
depends. sometimes it's:
-the weekend and how I'm going to justify to my wife why I'm going to the liquor store.
-if it's not a pay week, how I'm going to get money to buy a bottle
other times it's:
-how much fun I'm going to have with my wife and kids
the problem is that it's not consitently "I NEED A DRINK" and that's how I justify telling myself I don't have a problem, because I can go 3 weeks without drinking.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I just really really really really really like getting drunk and stoned (just pot). how do you stop doing something you like doing, especially when it's not obviously destroying your life? I mean, I don't miss work, my kids aren't affected, when I told my parents a while back I thought I had a problem they looked at me like I was nuts, etc.
I think it would be so much easier to see it as a problem if I happened to fall face first into my kids birthday cake and puke all over the guests, but that's just not how it is.
FUCK.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I just really really really really really like getting drunk and stoned (just pot). how do you stop doing something you like doing, especially when it's not obviously destroying your life? I mean, I don't miss work, my kids aren't affected, when I told my parents a while back I thought I had a problem they looked at me like I was nuts, etc.
I think it would be so much easier to see it as a problem if I happened to fall face first into my kids birthday cake and puke all over the guests, but that's just not how it is.
FUCK.
The fact that it's mentally tearing you apart this way, is proof enough that it's a problem..It may not be causing any outwardly noticeable problems that you can see at this point, but the fact that it's got you chasing your mental tail, is a problem in itself..This can cause further drinking, which increases this mental anguish..trust.. that's how I started out.. next thing I knew I was hunting down beers at 9 am in the morning..didn't take long, just enough beer to kill the anxiety..and away the habit went from there..
The fact that it's mentally tearing you apart this way, is proof enough that it's a problem..It may not be causing any outwardly noticeable problems that you can see at this point, but the fact that it's got you chasing your mental tail, is a problem in itself..This can cause further drinking, which increases this mental anguish..trust.. that's how I started out.. next thing I knew I was hunting down beers at 9 am in the morning..didn't take long, just enough beer to kill the anxiety..and away the habit went from there..
That's where I was. I kill myself more in thought than it would outwardly seem with the drink. I really have been thinking about a dirnk recently because alcohol is cunning and baffling but I know that even when I drink in moderation, I am laying so much guilt on myself that it cripples me.
I just really really really really really like getting drunk and stoned (just pot). how do you stop doing something you like doing, especially when it's not obviously destroying your life? I mean, I don't miss work, my kids aren't affected, when I told my parents a while back I thought I had a problem they looked at me like I was nuts, etc.
I think it would be so much easier to see it as a problem if I happened to fall face first into my kids birthday cake and puke all over the guests, but that's just not how it is.
FUCK.
The fact that it's mentally tearing you apart this way, is proof enough that it's a problem..It may not be causing any outwardly noticeable problems that you can see at this point, but the fact that it's got you chasing your mental tail, is a problem in itself..This can cause further drinking, which increases this mental anguish..trust.. that's how I started out.. next thing I knew I was hunting down beers at 9 am in the morning..didn't take long, just enough beer to kill the anxiety..and away the habit went from there..
Can I ask something (and I don't mean to sound like an asshole)?: Would you really prefer to wait until you do something like fall face first into your child's birthday cake to change?
I know I'm not the only one on here that kept drinking after they had mortified themselves in front of family, especially children. I can tell you it sucks to live with. The guilt from such events doesn't make it easier to stop drinking. Hell, it makes it harder.
Can I ask something (and I don't mean to sound like an asshole)?: Would you really prefer to wait until you do something like fall face first into your child's birthday cake to change?
I know I'm not the only one on here that kept drinking after they had mortified themselves in front of family, especially children. I can tell you it sucks to live with. The guilt from such events doesn't make it easier to stop drinking. Hell, it makes it harder.
you don't sound like an asshole, I'm putting myself out there looking for feedback, so I appreciate it. No, I don't want it to come to that, but no one thinks it will, ya know?
I don't see myself getting any worse than I was a long time ago.......it ebbs and flows........so often I don't care about drinking........other times I just feel like a party........I mostly don't drink around family or at stuff like that.......I don't find it to be hugely appropriate........I'm sure things CAN get worse, and very well MAY, but I don't tend to think that way, so it's hard when you think positively to actually believe you are this close to the rock.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
The fact that it's mentally tearing you apart this way, is proof enough that it's a problem..
yeah, I've thought of it from that angle as well. sometimes I look for reasons to stop, and sometimes I look for reasons to keep going as is.
part of my problem is I don't have enough confidence in knowing myself......I have always been very hard on myself........so it's hard for me to tell if this is just one of those times.......I've told a few people, people close to me that I thought I had a problem. Every single one of them looked at me like I had just grown a second head. that's not the reaction I expected. I was expecting some "wow"s, or maybe some "good for you"s, but not just blank stares like "um, can I buy you a beer" kind of look.
and no, these aren't drinking partners.
and by the way, I'm aware that I'm coming off as the guy looking for help but shooting down any and all suggestions and insight. I think it's just part of the process. So.....sorry about that. Just trying to figure this all out.
Gimli 1993
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
Another great blog from Elle:
I can relate to " the click "
One Crafty Mother
Click
Posted: 28 Aug 2011 02:03 PM PDT
I've been thinking about the 'click' lately.
Maybe you know the one? After you've had a drink, or two, and life just seems to click into place? The edges get all warm and fuzzy, you love everyone and everything, and boredom and anxiety feel like distant memories?
Yeah, that click.
It is Friday night, and we are hanging out at our beach camp, lounging on the porch and watching the sun go down. The neighborhood has gathered on someone's porch for drinks, and they are having a grand old time. The sounds of laughter and clinking glasses permeate the air, and I listen wistfully.
I have that sun drenched, salty feeling; the one that goes so well with a smooth glass of wine.
My back is sore - I threw it out again early last week - and the kids are clamoring for dinner. The thought of sweating over the grill, or the stove, makes me tired right down to my bones. Oh, how I want that click. It would ease my back pain, make the idea of cooking dinner seem palatable, I think.
To distract myself, I go for a little walk, up to the lighthouse on the point next to our cottage. I sit and listen to the birds, feel the cool evening breeze on my face.
I think about all the women I have met recently - either in person or through emails - who are brand new to sobriety, or who are struggling to get sober.
This is why it's so hard, I think, to stay away from that first drink. Nothing beats that click, not really. It's the antidote to boredom, a prescription for instant relaxation.
I take deep breaths, feel my lungs inflate with the fresh air. In. Out. Think it through, Ellie.
The difference between me and a normal drinker is that the click is just the beginning for me.
Normal drinkers ride that warm feeling, have a drink or two and coast along on happy, relaxed sociability. They milk the click for all it's worth, but for them it stops there.
I was born without an off switch. Once I hit the click, I no longer control how much I will drink. It has always been that way.
I remember how I tried everything - everything - to get to the click and stay there. I tried only drinking beer. Or wine. I tried only drinking on weekends, or only when I was out with friends. Even if I only drank on occasion, there was no telling where I'd end up once I started. Sometimes I could control it, and for years I thought only about those times when I was able to rein it in, stop at the click. There were only a few examples to choose from, but I kept them close at hand, and discarded all the evidence to the contrary.
With I sigh, I turn and head back to the cottage, a heavy feeling in my bones. I miss it, I think. And that's okay. Ride it out. It will pass. It always does.
~~~~~~~
Later that evening, after the dishes are washed up and dessert devoured, we settle down at the kitchen table to work on a 550 piece puzzle. The only light comes from a portable gas lantern, and it casts a warm glow over the kids' faces, like a campfire.
"It's family puzzle night!" Greta grins.
Finn furrows his brow, looking for one certain piece. When he finds it his face lights up: "I FOUND it, Momma! That makes FWEE pieces for me!"
I would have missed this, I think. I would have gone into numbness, there-but-not-there, my mind distracted by whether it would be okay to pour another drink.
Greta leans her head on my shoulder, "I love family puzzle night," she says with a contented sigh.
And, all of a sudden, there it is: I'm content, relaxed. I'm happy.
CLICK.
"This here's a REQUEST!"
EV intro to Chloe Dancer / Crown of Thorns
10/25/13 Hartford
Comments
EV intro to Chloe Dancer / Crown of Thorns
10/25/13 Hartford
I would put your foot down though and tell her she cant come back to the rehab is complete.
It wasnt until I made changes that I could have ant kind of relationship with family and the few friends I had left.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I agree that it's different for everyone. How your daughter handles certain situations will depend on too many factors to list, foresee, or control.
I went through treatment twice: once as a teenager (after a suicide attempt; I didn't feel I had a problem with drinking or drugs at all), and once at 23 years old.
The first time through, I was told not to associate with any friends from my "old life" for a period of 6 months. So what did I do? I found new friends. Problem: Solved!
The second time through (when I was really, really done with drinking, and desperate to stay sober), I was told to "change my playground and playmates." Which I did, out of sheer desperation.
I know that, for me, cutting ties quickly and completely did help solidify that my life was now different. I believe it also helped me to immerse myself in what I needed to be concentrating on, and to spend time with people who were engaged in the same pursuits.
I'm painfully shy, and if I had the choice of meeting and talking with strangers or going over to an old friend's house, I would choose the latter; if I had had that choice during the first year or so of my sobriety, I cannot say with any certainty that I would have made it. This is, of course, not to say that it could not be done. Just my experience.
Somebody cut the mike; I've gone long.
I found out when I got sober that most relationships with old friends revolved around drink and/or drugs to a degree which I hadn't previously noticed. It became hard to be friends with a lot of people simply because our meetings had always been about boozing and now the dynamic of the relationship had changed, it lost it's appeal for both sides.
I'm only talking here but I'd say that there are a few sober friends who are still my good friends, some I used to drink with. However, that may be because I got sober in my 30s and a few of these people have settled down with families, got their shit sorted and are mature enough to deal with me as an equal. I'd suggest that most of my friends in my teen years and 20s wouldn't have been mature enough to handle a sober ex-drinking buddy.
Anyway, she has expressed a desire to go to school...which I think would be great...a good way to meet new people, but still, she'll have to deal with the ones who want to go out and party all the time.
I suppose we are going to just have some very strict rules about what she does...even tho technically she's an adult, if she's living in our house then she must follow rules no matter what age she is. But we've tried so many times...part of the problem is that my husband and I have never really been on the same page or been consistent about rules/consequences which is probably part of the reason things have gotten to this point. Even though I know in my head that I've done the best I can, I still feel guilty...like I've failed her in some way. Ugh.
One crafty mother
One Crafty Mother
1,459 Days - Who I See
Posted: 15 Aug 2011 12:25 PM PDT
She looks back at me with desperation and defiance shining in her eyes.
Somewhere, deep down inside, she knows it's over, but that fact scares her too much, so she hangs onto anger like a shield - a force field - to deflect this hard truth.
She doesn't look like herself, not at all like the woman she pictures in her head, the woman she was for so many years. Her pretty ivory skin is blotchy and bloated, and she can see the beginnings of tiny, pink burst capillaries on her cheeks. She remembers that these are called gin blossoms, and her stomach churns with shame.
There is a slight tremor in her hands; these days it appears if she goes mere hours without a drink. She is vaguely scared at this idea, but not nearly as scared as she is of stopping. She cannot imagine life without alcohol.
I can't give it up, she thinks. It is the only thing holding me together.
Slowly, she ticks through the list she carries in her head - a careworn and dog-eared list of all the reasons she can't possibly be an alcoholic. It's a familiar mantra by now, and it is sounding thin even to her own ears.
The other list - the one she tries not to think about - is getting longer. She pictures the nearly constant disgusted anger in her husband's eyes. She remembers her five year-old daughter's desperate pleas - but Momma, you're ALWAYS sleeping - when requests to read a story or play a game are met with a muffled grunts from beneath the sheets.
She looks back at me and begs me to tell her that she will figure it out, that she will get a handle on her drinking, that she isn't that bad.
Slowly, the defiance drains from her face, and she is left with only desperation. The hard truth lands on her like a stone: you're going to lose everything. You're an alcoholic and you need help.
~~~~~
That woman was me, 1,459 days ago, the day I had my last drink. My husband had just told me I would be heading back to rehab - again - and that he didn't care what happened to me after that. I was sinking, he told me, and he was done. He said he wouldn't let me drag the whole family down with me.
So the afternoon of August 16, 2007 I found myself staring at my own reflection in the mirror, desperate to hang onto the one thing that was ripping my life apart. The chasm between the way I presented myself to the world and the way I felt on the inside had finally opened up and swallowed me whole. It happened quickly. I began the summer with swaggering promises to get help, go to meetings, to stop drinking. All those promises did was drive my drinking deeper underground. I drank on the way to meetings. I drank on the way home. I popped breath mints and drank coffee to disguise the odor on my breath. I spun flimsy webs full of lies, but the only person I was fooling was myself.
In two months I was hospitalized twice and attended two rehabs - one inpatient and one outpatient. I listened to the advice I got, to the stories I heard in meetings and from fellow patients. I wrote copiously in my journal, determined to get a handle on my drinking. I did everything but the one thing I had to do to have a fighting chance at getting sober.
I didn't surrender.
I still believed that there must be something I could do to drink like a normal person. I thought I needed to be stronger, to fight harder, to resist the temptation to keep drinking after one or two. I really believed if I tried hard enough, I would be okay.
In the course of two months my world fell apart, and I stubbornly clung to my right to drink, even as I hurt the people I loved the most. I was so scared. All the time. Scared to keep drinking, and scared to stop.
On August 16, 2007 I looked at my reflection in the mirror and I saw a bloated, desperate shell of my former self. Unshowered, trembling and alone in the world, I finally hit bottom.
I gave up. I went back to rehab - thirty days this time - and I got out of my own way.
Take it, I prayed to whatever-might-be-out-there, take what happens to me out of my stubborn hands.
~~~~~
Today I gazed at my reflection in the mirror and thought about the journey so far.
The face looking back at me is thinner, the crinkly laugh lines around my eyes are more prominent. There is a steely determination in my eyes, as well as an impish glint that wasn't there before.
The woman I see is strong, self-confident, determined. I like her a lot. I've only known her for three years, now - the first year of sobriety was full of anxiety and fear. But slowly, she emerged from the darkness, wove her way into my day-to-day life. Each day without a drink she grew stronger.
The woman in the mirror is also vulnerable. Her emotions ripple right beneath the surface, now that they aren't anesthetized by alcohol and denial. She feels things more strongly: she hurts more deeply, but she loves harder than ever before.
I meet my own gaze and whisper: I love you.
And I do. Not an egotistical I'm-better-than-you love, but a gentle, accepting, motherly kind of love. I treat myself with the same kindness I do others. I have to, because when my disease comes knocking it tells me that I don't measure up, that I need to hide from fear, to anesthetize boredom and anxiety.
I spent years erasing myself from the picture, lost in shame and fear. Every day without a drink I draw those lines back in - with confident strokes and bold colors.
I like what I see. Finally.
EV intro to Chloe Dancer / Crown of Thorns
10/25/13 Hartford
EV intro to Chloe Dancer / Crown of Thorns
10/25/13 Hartford
Not any more...
Holiday this year is good but I'm angry all the time. I know how dangerous that is for me.
I think it is because with three kids and 7 people in the house it is very hard to find a free moment for myself and I am always supposed to be doing something. I know that finding 'me time' is essential but here it feels selfish to find that hour for myself. Need a rethink...
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Sometimes I need to breathe deeply and count to twelve...
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=166558
EV intro to Chloe Dancer / Crown of Thorns
10/25/13 Hartford
So yesterday at work, I email my wife: "I'd really like to have a couple drinks with you tonight, maybe play some crib, and listen to some music (Uke Songs on vinyl). Would you mind buying a small bottle of Crown on the way home. I PROMISE I'll behave."
She came home with a 13 ounce bottle of Crown and also a bottle of vodka so she could enjoy the occasional paralyzer. It started out ok. I actually measured my drinks (which I never do). One ounce crown, the rest pepsi, small tumbler. I made a conscious decision to wait between drinks so my wife might notice that I'm not jumping up to get my next one. I think about it the whole time though. I just want to get the next one. How much longer do I have to wait? Is she even noticing I'm waiting? How could she not notice? So ridiculous. Normal people don't notice the time in between drinks. That doesn't exist for them.
Three drinks in I'm no longer bothering waiting. At one point I think I got up and my glass wasn't even empty yet.
She went to bed, said she had a nice time, and asked me not to stay up too late. Which is code for "don't drink too much".
I stopped measuring. Before I knew it the bottle was finished.
This morning she said "so you didn't behave yourself last night". I shook my head in shame. I nearly started to cry, but my daughters were near. Every single time I tell myself it's going to be different.
But it never is.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I think all the time, it's a never ending, constant, barrage of thoughts, that I have named "The Marathon of Thought". Some days this turns out to be a singular thought that becomes an obsession, and all must be known about the particular train of thought that has won the race in my head temporarily..So far today, the winner is the thought that I have been having a harder time quitting drinking than, the time I've had quitting smoking cigarettes. I would think that since I'd smoked for WAY longer than I had been drinking, that I would have missed the cigarettes more than the alcohol. But I walked away from cigs so easily like walking away from garbage...However I pass a liquor store and suddenly I find myself having to talk myself out of stopping. Sometimes I pull into the parking lot, and have to talk myself out of getting out of the truck, before I pull back OUT of the parking lot. ( I sometimes have the ability to laugh at what the other liquor store patrons must think of my little game of "In'n Out", but most of the times the close call has me up in arms against myself) Anyhow, just had to get that out..
Just an expression used in AA circles:
"If you are trying to control your drinking it is already out of control!"
Consider talking to someone in the program or drop in on a nearby AA beginners meeting..
you can call your local AA central service (411 or internet search) for meeting near you.
Tell someone what you posted here..and I promise no one will chase you out into the parking lot.
Good luck
EV intro to Chloe Dancer / Crown of Thorns
10/25/13 Hartford
Dude, alcoholic behaviour for sure. Getting pissed because the normal drinker isnt noticing how you drink? The kicker for me though is this line
"Every single time I tell myself it's going to be different.But it never is." This is what we define as insanity. Doing the same thing over and over , expecting a different result. You may only drink once or twice a week, but what are you thinking about the other 5-6 days of the week?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
No, you are right, they don't.
For the last three years of my drinking I was trying to control what I drank because I was jsut married and the waiting time between drinks was killing me.
Currently the waiting time between drinks is 1 year, 11 months and 15 days and that is, rather paradoxically what is keeping me alive.
EV intro to Chloe Dancer / Crown of Thorns
10/25/13 Hartford
depends. sometimes it's:
-the weekend and how I'm going to justify to my wife why I'm going to the liquor store.
-if it's not a pay week, how I'm going to get money to buy a bottle
other times it's:
-how much fun I'm going to have with my wife and kids
the problem is that it's not consitently "I NEED A DRINK" and that's how I justify telling myself I don't have a problem, because I can go 3 weeks without drinking.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
he sounded exactly like me.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I think it would be so much easier to see it as a problem if I happened to fall face first into my kids birthday cake and puke all over the guests, but that's just not how it is.
FUCK.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
That's where I was. I kill myself more in thought than it would outwardly seem with the drink. I really have been thinking about a dirnk recently because alcohol is cunning and baffling but I know that even when I drink in moderation, I am laying so much guilt on myself that it cripples me.
Can I ask something (and I don't mean to sound like an asshole)?: Would you really prefer to wait until you do something like fall face first into your child's birthday cake to change?
I know I'm not the only one on here that kept drinking after they had mortified themselves in front of family, especially children. I can tell you it sucks to live with. The guilt from such events doesn't make it easier to stop drinking. Hell, it makes it harder.
you don't sound like an asshole, I'm putting myself out there looking for feedback, so I appreciate it. No, I don't want it to come to that, but no one thinks it will, ya know?
I don't see myself getting any worse than I was a long time ago.......it ebbs and flows........so often I don't care about drinking........other times I just feel like a party........I mostly don't drink around family or at stuff like that.......I don't find it to be hugely appropriate........I'm sure things CAN get worse, and very well MAY, but I don't tend to think that way, so it's hard when you think positively to actually believe you are this close to the rock.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
yeah, I've thought of it from that angle as well. sometimes I look for reasons to stop, and sometimes I look for reasons to keep going as is.
part of my problem is I don't have enough confidence in knowing myself......I have always been very hard on myself........so it's hard for me to tell if this is just one of those times.......I've told a few people, people close to me that I thought I had a problem. Every single one of them looked at me like I had just grown a second head. that's not the reaction I expected. I was expecting some "wow"s, or maybe some "good for you"s, but not just blank stares like "um, can I buy you a beer" kind of look.
and no, these aren't drinking partners.
and by the way, I'm aware that I'm coming off as the guy looking for help but shooting down any and all suggestions and insight. I think it's just part of the process. So.....sorry about that. Just trying to figure this all out.
Fargo 2003
Winnipeg 2005
Winnipeg 2011
St. Paul 2014
I can relate to " the click "
One Crafty Mother
Click
Posted: 28 Aug 2011 02:03 PM PDT
I've been thinking about the 'click' lately.
Maybe you know the one? After you've had a drink, or two, and life just seems to click into place? The edges get all warm and fuzzy, you love everyone and everything, and boredom and anxiety feel like distant memories?
Yeah, that click.
It is Friday night, and we are hanging out at our beach camp, lounging on the porch and watching the sun go down. The neighborhood has gathered on someone's porch for drinks, and they are having a grand old time. The sounds of laughter and clinking glasses permeate the air, and I listen wistfully.
I have that sun drenched, salty feeling; the one that goes so well with a smooth glass of wine.
My back is sore - I threw it out again early last week - and the kids are clamoring for dinner. The thought of sweating over the grill, or the stove, makes me tired right down to my bones. Oh, how I want that click. It would ease my back pain, make the idea of cooking dinner seem palatable, I think.
To distract myself, I go for a little walk, up to the lighthouse on the point next to our cottage. I sit and listen to the birds, feel the cool evening breeze on my face.
I think about all the women I have met recently - either in person or through emails - who are brand new to sobriety, or who are struggling to get sober.
This is why it's so hard, I think, to stay away from that first drink. Nothing beats that click, not really. It's the antidote to boredom, a prescription for instant relaxation.
I take deep breaths, feel my lungs inflate with the fresh air. In. Out. Think it through, Ellie.
The difference between me and a normal drinker is that the click is just the beginning for me.
Normal drinkers ride that warm feeling, have a drink or two and coast along on happy, relaxed sociability. They milk the click for all it's worth, but for them it stops there.
I was born without an off switch. Once I hit the click, I no longer control how much I will drink. It has always been that way.
I remember how I tried everything - everything - to get to the click and stay there. I tried only drinking beer. Or wine. I tried only drinking on weekends, or only when I was out with friends. Even if I only drank on occasion, there was no telling where I'd end up once I started. Sometimes I could control it, and for years I thought only about those times when I was able to rein it in, stop at the click. There were only a few examples to choose from, but I kept them close at hand, and discarded all the evidence to the contrary.
With I sigh, I turn and head back to the cottage, a heavy feeling in my bones. I miss it, I think. And that's okay. Ride it out. It will pass. It always does.
~~~~~~~
Later that evening, after the dishes are washed up and dessert devoured, we settle down at the kitchen table to work on a 550 piece puzzle. The only light comes from a portable gas lantern, and it casts a warm glow over the kids' faces, like a campfire.
"It's family puzzle night!" Greta grins.
Finn furrows his brow, looking for one certain piece. When he finds it his face lights up: "I FOUND it, Momma! That makes FWEE pieces for me!"
I would have missed this, I think. I would have gone into numbness, there-but-not-there, my mind distracted by whether it would be okay to pour another drink.
Greta leans her head on my shoulder, "I love family puzzle night," she says with a contented sigh.
And, all of a sudden, there it is: I'm content, relaxed. I'm happy.
CLICK.
EV intro to Chloe Dancer / Crown of Thorns
10/25/13 Hartford