America's Gun Violence #2

static111

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Canada is going to ban handguns now.

cue up the "dictator Trudeau" rhetoric. 

So much ammo.  Looks like we are going to have to bring "freedom and democracy" to Canada.  It was nice knowing you guys.

Merkin Baller

N.H. 3rd grade student killed in shooting while on vacation in South Carolina

Police arrested a 40-year-old man on charges of attempted murder.

https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2022/05/31/n-h-3rd-grade-student-killed-in-shooting-while-on-vacation-in-south-carolina/?p1=hp_featurestack

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Canada is going to ban handguns now.

cue up the "dictator Trudeau" rhetoric. 

I won’t call him a dictator for this, but as with all the other gun control measures introduced by his governments I won’t feel one iota safer navigating the streets of Toronto. When the government finds a way to get the criminals to follow the rules and laws, then I’ll feel safer. But I’m also a person that feels Canada already has strong and effective gun control measures. My issues with the state of our gun crimes has more to do with the courts than legislation.

(I generally do feel safe in my city, but weeks before the outbreak of covid I was sitting on a bus that was feet from a fatal gang shooting. The gunshots sounded like someone was throwing pebbles at the bus.)

I apologize for sticking my nose back into this discussion, but it’s veering a bit into my country’s measures now, where I do feel I have a (bit of a) voice.

Halifax2TheMax

Canada is going to deny you your human rights? WTF?

LaPierre, who was reelected Monday as the group’s chief executive, started the convention by addressing the shooting in Uvalde, lamenting the “21 beautiful lives ruthlessly and indiscriminately extinguished by a criminal monster,” but he said “restricting the fundamental human rights of law-abiding Americans to defend themselves is not the answer. It never has been,” the Associated Press reported.

Poncier

Merkin Baller said:

N.H. 3rd grade student killed in shooting while on vacation in South Carolina

Police arrested a 40-year-old man on charges of attempted murder.

https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2022/05/31/n-h-3rd-grade-student-killed-in-shooting-while-on-vacation-in-south-carolina/?p1=hp_featurestack

Dude don't blame the gun. He could have done the same damage with a baseball bat.

"Randomly shooting at cars driving by his home". WTF? I'm sure he's probably mentally ill, but I don't need to hear Ted Cruz or Tim Scott saying gun control wouldn't have prevented this.

Merkin Baller

Poncier said:

Merkin Baller said:

N.H. 3rd grade student killed in shooting while on vacation in South Carolina

Police arrested a 40-year-old man on charges of attempted murder.

https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2022/05/31/n-h-3rd-grade-student-killed-in-shooting-while-on-vacation-in-south-carolina/?p1=hp_featurestack

Dude don't blame the gun. He could have done the same damage with a baseball bat.

"Randomly shooting at cars driving by his home". WTF? I'm sure he's probably mentally ill, but I don't need to hear Ted Cruz or Tim Scott saying gun control wouldn't have prevented this.

We need to make family vacations a harder target. 

tbergs

Merkin Baller said:

Poncier said:

Merkin Baller said:

N.H. 3rd grade student killed in shooting while on vacation in South Carolina

Police arrested a 40-year-old man on charges of attempted murder.

https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2022/05/31/n-h-3rd-grade-student-killed-in-shooting-while-on-vacation-in-south-carolina/?p1=hp_featurestack

Dude don't blame the gun. He could have done the same damage with a baseball bat.

"Randomly shooting at cars driving by his home". WTF? I'm sure he's probably mentally ill, but I don't need to hear Ted Cruz or Tim Scott saying gun control wouldn't have prevented this.

We need to make family vacations a harder target. 

Man traps, one door in and out and retired police and military every where!

DarthMaeglin

Merkin Baller said:

Poncier said:

Merkin Baller said:

N.H. 3rd grade student killed in shooting while on vacation in South Carolina

Police arrested a 40-year-old man on charges of attempted murder.

https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2022/05/31/n-h-3rd-grade-student-killed-in-shooting-while-on-vacation-in-south-carolina/?p1=hp_featurestack

Dude don't blame the gun. He could have done the same damage with a baseball bat.

"Randomly shooting at cars driving by his home". WTF? I'm sure he's probably mentally ill, but I don't need to hear Ted Cruz or Tim Scott saying gun control wouldn't have prevented this.

We need to make family vacations a harder target. 

Armoured vehicles for all?

 This is part of why I don’t comment here, despite my experience I don’t feel anywhere close to needing this mentality going about daily life, and while I do my best to sympathize in some ways it’s incomprehensible to me.

Again, my deepest sympathies to you all, this has always been and will always be heartbreaking.

oftenreading

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Canada is going to ban handguns now.

cue up the "dictator Trudeau" rhetoric. 

I won’t call him a dictator for this, but as with all the other gun control measures introduced by his governments I won’t feel one iota safer navigating the streets of Toronto. When the government finds a way to get the criminals to follow the rules and laws, then I’ll feel safer. But I’m also a person that feels Canada already has strong and effective gun control measures. My issues with the state of our gun crimes has more to do with the courts than legislation.

(I generally do feel safe in my city, but weeks before the outbreak of covid I was sitting on a bus that was feet from a fatal gang shooting. The gunshots sounded like someone was throwing pebbles at the bus.)

I apologize for sticking my nose back into this discussion, but it’s veering a bit into my country’s measures now, where I do feel I have a (bit of a) voice.

I think the “criminals don’t obey the laws” argument is regularly brought out by those who don’t want stricter gun laws and it ignores the fact that, with the exception of “ghost” guns, pretty much all of the guns used by criminals start off as legal guns, so the main issue is how to reduce the flow of guns into the market. That needs a many-pronged approach. 

I’m aware that a big chunk of the guns used in criminal activity in Canada come across the border illegally from the US (thanks, America!) so that aspect also needs to be addressed but I have no issue with reducing the domestic supply. 

Merkin Baller

DarthMaeglin said:

Merkin Baller said:

Poncier said:

Merkin Baller said:

N.H. 3rd grade student killed in shooting while on vacation in South Carolina

Police arrested a 40-year-old man on charges of attempted murder.

https://www.boston.com/news/local-news/2022/05/31/n-h-3rd-grade-student-killed-in-shooting-while-on-vacation-in-south-carolina/?p1=hp_featurestack

Dude don't blame the gun. He could have done the same damage with a baseball bat.

"Randomly shooting at cars driving by his home". WTF? I'm sure he's probably mentally ill, but I don't need to hear Ted Cruz or Tim Scott saying gun control wouldn't have prevented this.

We need to make family vacations a harder target. 

Armoured vehicles for all?

 This is part of why I don’t comment here, despite my experience I don’t feel anywhere close to needing this mentality going about daily life, and while I do my best to sympathize in some ways it’s incomprehensible to me.

Again, my deepest sympathies to you all, this has always been and will always be heartbreaking.

Despondent seems to be my default mood these last few years. 

HughFreakingDillon

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Canada is going to ban handguns now.

cue up the "dictator Trudeau" rhetoric. 

I won’t call him a dictator for this, but as with all the other gun control measures introduced by his governments I won’t feel one iota safer navigating the streets of Toronto. When the government finds a way to get the criminals to follow the rules and laws, then I’ll feel safer. But I’m also a person that feels Canada already has strong and effective gun control measures. My issues with the state of our gun crimes has more to do with the courts than legislation.

(I generally do feel safe in my city, but weeks before the outbreak of covid I was sitting on a bus that was feet from a fatal gang shooting. The gunshots sounded like someone was throwing pebbles at the bus.)

I apologize for sticking my nose back into this discussion, but it’s veering a bit into my country’s measures now, where I do feel I have a (bit of a) voice.

murder is illegal. people still murder. laws are in place to discourage offenses and punish where that discouragement didn't work. 

DarthMaeglin

oftenreading said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Canada is going to ban handguns now.

cue up the "dictator Trudeau" rhetoric. 

I won’t call him a dictator for this, but as with all the other gun control measures introduced by his governments I won’t feel one iota safer navigating the streets of Toronto. When the government finds a way to get the criminals to follow the rules and laws, then I’ll feel safer. But I’m also a person that feels Canada already has strong and effective gun control measures. My issues with the state of our gun crimes has more to do with the courts than legislation.

(I generally do feel safe in my city, but weeks before the outbreak of covid I was sitting on a bus that was feet from a fatal gang shooting. The gunshots sounded like someone was throwing pebbles at the bus.)

I apologize for sticking my nose back into this discussion, but it’s veering a bit into my country’s measures now, where I do feel I have a (bit of a) voice.

I think the “criminals don’t obey the laws” argument is regularly brought out by those who don’t want stricter gun laws and it ignores the fact that, with the exception of “ghost” guns, pretty much all of the guns used by criminals start off as legal guns, so the main issue is how to reduce the flow of guns into the market. That needs a many-pronged approach. 

I’m aware that a big chunk of the guns used in criminal activity in Canada come across the border illegally from the US (thanks, America!) so that aspect also needs to be addressed but I have no issue with reducing the domestic supply. 

I understand and by no means mean to deflect from gun control, as I said I really do think our system is already reasonable. My brother and his wife went through the application process (including the extra steps for handguns) and as they laid it out to me it sounded like a decently rigorous training and vetting. I haven’t asked them about it lately because with the arrival of two sweetheart girls I’ve assumed they aren’t pursuing ownership.

 I also agree that further restricting our domestic supply would have some effect, I’m just not convinced it wouldn’t be disproportionate to the restrictive aspect. (I do understand the argument about saving any life comes into play here however.) For me Canada’s focus needs to be our southern (and northwest) border, especially since the guns are being flown over by drone now, per a recent story in the news.

 I do have to admit to chuckling when I’m watching car racing and see the Black Rifle Coffee Company flash across my screen. Trudeau’s government included them in their initial list of banned firearms in the wake of the Nova Scotia mass murder.

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

DarthMaeglin said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Canada is going to ban handguns now.

cue up the "dictator Trudeau" rhetoric. 

I won’t call him a dictator for this, but as with all the other gun control measures introduced by his governments I won’t feel one iota safer navigating the streets of Toronto. When the government finds a way to get the criminals to follow the rules and laws, then I’ll feel safer. But I’m also a person that feels Canada already has strong and effective gun control measures. My issues with the state of our gun crimes has more to do with the courts than legislation.

(I generally do feel safe in my city, but weeks before the outbreak of covid I was sitting on a bus that was feet from a fatal gang shooting. The gunshots sounded like someone was throwing pebbles at the bus.)

I apologize for sticking my nose back into this discussion, but it’s veering a bit into my country’s measures now, where I do feel I have a (bit of a) voice.

murder is illegal. people still murder. laws are in place to discourage offenses and punish where that discouragement didn't work. 

And that’s where I would look more to our courts than the laws that are on the books. I was bothered when the courts first struck down the mandatory minimums for gun crimes our previous government passed into law, but they were deemed a Charter violation.

And as I typed the above the lead story on the local news channel was that a teen is up on 10 firearms charges (I didn’t catch the details because of music playing on headphones).

DarthMaeglin

I hope I’ve explained myself reasonably, I think I’d like to go back to reading this thread and not participating, thanks.

Gern Blansten

DarthMaeglin said:

I hope I’ve explained myself reasonably, I think I’d like to go back to reading this thread and not participating, thanks.

Good thing we don't all do that.

HughFreakingDillon

Gern Blansten said:

DarthMaeglin said:

I hope I’ve explained myself reasonably, I think I’d like to go back to reading this thread and not participating, thanks.

Good thing we don't all do that.

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. Are you criticizing her for bowing out of the discussion? She's already stated her position why she doesn't feel her opinion might be as relevant (paraphrasing) as that of Americans'. 

Gern Blansten

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

DarthMaeglin said:

I hope I’ve explained myself reasonably, I think I’d like to go back to reading this thread and not participating, thanks.

Good thing we don't all do that.

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. Are you criticizing her for bowing out of the discussion? She's already stated her position why she doesn't feel her opinion might be as relevant (paraphrasing) as that of Americans'. 

I just meant that it's a good thing we all don't sit back and read responses of others rather than join in and keep the discussion moving.

No offense intended

HughFreakingDillon

Gern Blansten said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

DarthMaeglin said:

I hope I’ve explained myself reasonably, I think I’d like to go back to reading this thread and not participating, thanks.

Good thing we don't all do that.

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. Are you criticizing her for bowing out of the discussion? She's already stated her position why she doesn't feel her opinion might be as relevant (paraphrasing) as that of Americans'. 

I just meant that it's a good thing we all don't sit back and read responses of others rather than join in and keep the discussion moving.

No offense intended

Honestly I'm not sure what good it does. I mean, the 10C Constitutional Amendments I've been trying to pass are being stalled in AET. 

DarthMaeglin

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

DarthMaeglin said:

I hope I’ve explained myself reasonably, I think I’d like to go back to reading this thread and not participating, thanks.

Good thing we don't all do that.

I'm not sure what this is supposed to mean. Are you criticizing her for bowing out of the discussion? She's already stated her position why she doesn't feel her opinion might be as relevant (paraphrasing) as that of Americans'. 

Ok, despite what I said I have to reply one last time with a touch of levity.  Hugh, we've interacted enough I would have hoped you'd recall I'm a dude,  lol (I mean nothing by this and am bothered less than zero by the mistake,  Hugh's a popular guy here).

I was a bit confused by Gern's comment but we cleared it up via pm (so as not to be a distraction here), and I agree with them that if everyone kept quiet and only read there wouldn't be anything to read. I just personally don't see this thread as a run-of-the-mill discussion.

Now I think I can bow out with thanks to everyone on all sides of this issue for helping this idiot learn more about such an important issue (please see my quote below).

Edit: I used the wrong word in my first sentence,  apologies for any confusion. 

Halifax2TheMax

More guns is the answer. Clearly, we need more guns. 16 hours? We need to cut that in half.

CHARLESTON, S.C. (WCSC) - Charleston Mayor John Tecklenburg said 10 people were wounded in a mass shooting last night in downtown Charleston late Monday night.

Tecklenburg said there have been 230 mass shootings in America so far this year.

“It’s May 31. That’s day number 151. And that means there’s just over one-and-a-half mass shootings per day in America,” he said. “Every 16 hours in our country, there’s a mass shooting. Think about that, y’all: Every 16 hours in America, there’s a mass shooting. Well, I don’t know about you, but I’m angry about it. I’m mad about it. I’m fed up. And I concur with many of our citizens here and across this country that enough is enough.”

10 wounded in Charleston mass shooting, mayor confirms (msn.com)