America's Gun Violence #2

Bentleyspop

Halifax2TheMax said:

200 mass shootings in ‘Murica so far this year. 200. 200 over 127 days.

Nothing can be done. 

More guns 
Less doors
More prayers
Less drag queens

brianlux

Halifax2TheMax said:

How delusional is this? From WaPo and the congressman representing the district in Tejas where the latest has occurred.

Self, the congressman, rebuked criticism of officials offering “thoughts and prayers” after shootings while opposing gun control legislation, saying on CNN that “people want to make this political, but prayers are important.”

“The immediate aftermath is not the time for politics,” he told The Washington Post. “We have long ago traded faith in God, which means civic action based on that faith, for faith in government.”

How delusional?  Very!

Thoughts and prayers for Keith Self's issues with delusions. 

Oh, and Keith, if what you represent as government were ubiquitous, don't worry, I would have no faith in government.

Halifax2TheMax

Too many doors, not enough guns. Nothing can be done. Thoughts and prayers.

https://www.cnn.com/2023/05/07/us/texas-dart-train-shooting/index.html

Gern Blansten

Once again....events like the Texas mall shooting will continue to occur and remove the "good guy with a gun" argument from the hardcore 2A playbook.

The element of surprise will always trump the good guy with a gun. Luckily a good guy (cop) was close and took this fucker out before he killed more people. But he still took out eight people.

We are moving closer to an assault weapons ban and registration. Give it about 200 more shootings and more people will start to understand.

mickeyrat

Gern Blansten said:

Once again....events like the Texas mall shooting will continue to occur and remove the "good guy with a gun" argument from the hardcore 2A playbook.

The element of surprise will always trump the good guy with a gun. Luckily a good guy (cop) was close and took this fucker out before he killed more people. But he still took out eight people.

We are moving closer to an assault weapons ban and registration. Give it about 200 more shootings and more people will start to understand.

200? by the end of year? boy you're optimistic .

Merkin Baller

mickeyrat said:

Gern Blansten said:

Once again....events like the Texas mall shooting will continue to occur and remove the "good guy with a gun" argument from the hardcore 2A playbook.

The element of surprise will always trump the good guy with a gun. Luckily a good guy (cop) was close and took this fucker out before he killed more people. But he still took out eight people.

We are moving closer to an assault weapons ban and registration. Give it about 200 more shootings and more people will start to understand.

200? by the end of year? boy you're optimistic .

AT the rate 2023 is going, we'll hit that before Halloween. 

Gern Blansten

The gun nuts forget that the killers will adjust. This guy didn't even wait to enter the mall. He just gets out of his car and starts shooting.

Have we encountered a recess shooting yet? The idea makes me cringe but they are coming. No need to break down doors to enter a school. Just wait for the targets to congregate outside and open fire.

cincybearcat

So.... this subject gets me riled up.  But I'm going to step back a second.  I honestly do not understand people against most of the things proposed in regards to universal background checks, banning assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.  

I can understand some of the angst around "safe Storage"....cause I am betting some people want these handy when they have a issue....but I would think it would be fine to require safe storage OR be held accountable if your gun is used inappropriately because you didn't store it properly.

Now - in regards to gun manufacturer immunity....I have a hard time understanding how gun mfg should be held accountable.  I mean it seems like a cop out or a work around for not being able to pass laws.  Now - perhaps the advertising should have certain standards and if you fail (meaning you target kids, etc) then you should be held accountable.  I know we are all pissed (well most of us) about what is going on ... but why do you feel the gun manufacturers should be held accountable when they are selling a legal product and someone is using it on their own terms?

mickeyrat

cincybearcat said:

So.... this subject gets me riled up.  But I'm going to step back a second.  I honestly do not understand people against most of the things proposed in regards to universal background checks, banning assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.  

I can understand some of the angst around "safe Storage"....cause I am betting some people want these handy when they have a issue....but I would think it would be fine to require safe storage OR be held accountable if your gun is used inappropriately because you didn't store it properly.

Now - in regards to gun manufacturer immunity....I have a hard time understanding how gun mfg should be held accountable.  I mean it seems like a cop out or a work around for not being able to pass laws.  Now - perhaps the advertising should have certain standards and if you fail (meaning you target kids, etc) then you should be held accountable.  I know we are all pissed (well most of us) about what is going on ... but why do you feel the gun manufacturers should be held accountable when they are selling a legal product and someone is using it on their own terms?

accountability for their weekend rambo marketing is a must.

cincybearcat

mickeyrat said:

cincybearcat said:

So.... this subject gets me riled up.  But I'm going to step back a second.  I honestly do not understand people against most of the things proposed in regards to universal background checks, banning assault weapons and high-capacity magazines.  

I can understand some of the angst around "safe Storage"....cause I am betting some people want these handy when they have a issue....but I would think it would be fine to require safe storage OR be held accountable if your gun is used inappropriately because you didn't store it properly.

Now - in regards to gun manufacturer immunity....I have a hard time understanding how gun mfg should be held accountable.  I mean it seems like a cop out or a work around for not being able to pass laws.  Now - perhaps the advertising should have certain standards and if you fail (meaning you target kids, etc) then you should be held accountable.  I know we are all pissed (well most of us) about what is going on ... but why do you feel the gun manufacturers should be held accountable when they are selling a legal product and someone is using it on their own terms?

accountability for their weekend rambo marketing is a must.

Yup I would certainly agree with this.

Gern Blansten

I can see holding the gun shops accountable but yeah...unless the manufacturer is promoting backyard militia type stuff they really can't be held liable.

When I bought a handgun about 20 years ago the guy selling it to me said something like "the first thing you want to do is chamber a round and shoot it into the ground....that gets their attention".  I was like holy shit man what places are you hanging out in?

cincybearcat

Gern Blansten said:

I can see holding the gun shops accountable but yeah...unless the manufacturer is promoting backyard militia type stuff they really can't be held liable.

When I bought a handgun about 20 years ago the guy selling it to me said something like "the first thing you want to do is chamber a round and shoot it into the ground....that gets their attention".  I was like holy shit man what places are you hanging out in?

Yes, if the store doesn't follow whatever the current laws are when selling a gun, sure, should be accountable.  But we clearly can't expect them to do the job that our politicians are supposed to be doing which is creating the laws.

HughFreakingDillon

Gern Blansten said:

The gun nuts forget that the killers will adjust. This guy didn't even wait to enter the mall. He just gets out of his car and starts shooting.

Have we encountered a recess shooting yet? The idea makes me cringe but they are coming. No need to break down doors to enter a school. Just wait for the targets to congregate outside and open fire.

and then the conservatives will opt to cancel outdoor recess. 

Merkin Baller

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

The gun nuts forget that the killers will adjust. This guy didn't even wait to enter the mall. He just gets out of his car and starts shooting.

Have we encountered a recess shooting yet? The idea makes me cringe but they are coming. No need to break down doors to enter a school. Just wait for the targets to congregate outside and open fire.

and then the conservatives will opt to cancel outdoor recess. 

No need to cancel outdoor recess, just build high walls, w/ no doors and lots of barbed wire. 

cincybearcat

Merkin Baller said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Gern Blansten said:

The gun nuts forget that the killers will adjust. This guy didn't even wait to enter the mall. He just gets out of his car and starts shooting.

Have we encountered a recess shooting yet? The idea makes me cringe but they are coming. No need to break down doors to enter a school. Just wait for the targets to congregate outside and open fire.

and then the conservatives will opt to cancel outdoor recess. 

No need to cancel outdoor recess, just build high walls, w/ no doors and lots of barbed wire. 

And make Mexico pay for it!

RoleModelsinBlood31

I’m all for banning assault weapons (they’ll have to declare what exactly those are though) and high capacity clips.  But I agree that holding the manufacturers accountable is a stretch.  To me it wouldn’t make sense to hold alcohol manufacturers accountable for domestic abuse.

Halifax2TheMax

From WaPo:

The shooting in Allen is the third mass killing recorded in Texas so far this year. In 2022, Texas recorded six mass killings by gun — the most of any single state.

Merkin Baller

While I don't disagree w/ the premise that gun manufacturers shouldn't necessarily share in the blame for when mass shootings happen, it's pretty insulting to say the least, to prioritize & protect their interests over that of the innocent people getting murdered every day. 

"Tennessee moves to shield gun firms after school shooting"

https://apnews.com/article/tennessee-gun-lawsuits-shooting-e35ded1be99d504b7ae1694ad030be17


& as long as our politicians are paid off by the gun lobby, they're going to prioritize the gun lobby's interests over yours & mine, so without massive reform regarding political donations, nothing is going to change. 

Gern Blansten

Merkin Baller said:

While I don't disagree w/ the premise that gun manufacturers shouldn't necessarily share in the blame for when mass shootings happen, it's pretty insulting to say the least, to prioritize & protect their interests over that of the innocent people getting murdered every day. 

"Tennessee moves to shield gun firms after school shooting"

https://apnews.com/article/tennessee-gun-lawsuits-shooting-e35ded1be99d504b7ae1694ad030be17


& as long as our politicians are paid off by the gun lobby, they're going to prioritize the gun lobby's interests over yours & mine, so without massive reform regarding political donations, nothing is going to change. 

agreed...that is an industry that should be forbidden from lobbying. I'm sure they get enough government contracts to make that trade off.

tbergs

I have gone back and forth on my opinion about whether gun manufacturers should be held accountable. On one hand, they are only selling the product as allowed by law, and much like alcohol, it's the people using the product who are responsible for how that usage occurs, but then I look at what happened with the tobacco industry. They were just selling a product as well, but they ultimately were proven to know how dangerous it was, I don't see how that case can't be made with guns and alcohol. Outside of companies advertising guns for hunting, the self-defense patriot and hero fantasy of the fear mongering side of the marketing division definitely knows what they are doing. I believe it was here that someone posted those JR-15 style guns targeting kids. Gun culture has just become so fucking toxic.

I mean the automotive industry has progressed leaps and bounds with required safety features and so have other industries where the usage of a product was causing fatalities and serious injury. Unless the gun manufacturers have their feet held to the fire, they will continue to focus their money on making products that more readily are able to to kill more efficiently. There needs to be a wake up call where safety features or measures become the focus.

There are so many levels of failure to getting this problem under control and we know it will already take decades if any measure is actually implemented. Politicians, gun manufacturers and sellers, and the American people all need to take responsibility in curtailing the mass shootings. It's beyond absurd at this point.

Gern Blansten

tbergs said:

I have gone back and forth on my opinion about whether gun manufacturers should be held accountable. On one hand, they are only selling the product as allowed by law, and much like alcohol, it's the people using the product who are responsible for how that usage occurs, but then I look at what happened with the tobacco industry. They were just selling a product as well, but they ultimately were proven to know how dangerous it was, I don't see how that case can't be made with guns and alcohol. Outside of companies advertising guns for hunting, the self-defense patriot and hero fantasy of the fear mongering side of the marketing division definitely knows what they are doing. I believe it was here that someone posted those JR-15 style guns targeting kids. Gun culture has just become so fucking toxic.

I mean the automotive industry has progressed leaps and bounds with required safety features and so have other industries where the usage of a product was causing fatalities and serious injury. Unless the gun manufacturers have their feet held to the fire, they will continue to focus their money on making products that more readily are able to to kill more efficiently. There needs to be a wake up call where safety features or measures become the focus.

There are so many levels of failure to getting this problem under control and we know it will already take decades if any measure is actually implemented. Politicians, gun manufacturers and sellers, and the American people all need to take responsibility in curtailing the mass shootings. It's beyond absurd at this point.

It is....it's fucking stupid

And I can't tell you how many people I argue with about the 2A that aren't even gun owners. The non gun owners seem to be more rabid than actual NRA members which is proven by polling.

gimmesometruth27

the shooter wore a "right wing death squad" patch. this was not your average yosemite sam. this was a neo nazi white supremacist.

this is the same patch worn by proud boys on 1/6.

Gern Blansten

gimmesometruth27 said:

the shooter wore a "right wing death squad" patch. this was not your average yosemite sam. this was a neo nazi white supremacist.

this is the same patch worn by proud boys on 1/6.

Yeah he's not a woke Biden voter for sure

Merkin Baller

tbergs said:

I have gone back and forth on my opinion about whether gun manufacturers should be held accountable. On one hand, they are only selling the product as allowed by law, and much like alcohol, it's the people using the product who are responsible for how that usage occurs, but then I look at what happened with the tobacco industry. They were just selling a product as well, but they ultimately were proven to know how dangerous it was, I don't see how that case can't be made with guns and alcohol. Outside of companies advertising guns for hunting, the self-defense patriot and hero fantasy of the fear mongering side of the marketing division definitely knows what they are doing. I believe it was here that someone posted those JR-15 style guns targeting kids. Gun culture has just become so fucking toxic.

I mean the automotive industry has progressed leaps and bounds with required safety features and so have other industries where the usage of a product was causing fatalities and serious injury. Unless the gun manufacturers have their feet held to the fire, they will continue to focus their money on making products that more readily are able to to kill more efficiently. There needs to be a wake up call where safety features or measures become the focus.

There are so many levels of failure to getting this problem under control and we know it will already take decades if any measure is actually implemented. Politicians, gun manufacturers and sellers, and the American people all need to take responsibility in curtailing the mass shootings. It's beyond absurd at this point.

Pie in the sky thinking here, but  what if, like with the Surgeon General's warnings w/ tobacco, gun stats were plastered on the wall of every gun store, and gun show etc, as study after study has shown the mere presence of a firearm raises the risk of casualty from a firearm for those around them? 

Guns don't make people safer, they in fact do the opposite...maybe a little truth in advertising might be a good start? 

tbergs

gimmesometruth27 said:

the shooter wore a "right wing death squad" patch. this was not your average yosemite sam. this was a neo nazi white supremacist.

this is the same patch worn by proud boys on 1/6.

Should be an automatic disqualification from obtaining a firearm. The level of hate a person like this has is dangerous to us all.

gimmesometruth27

tbergs said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

the shooter wore a "right wing death squad" patch. this was not your average yosemite sam. this was a neo nazi white supremacist.

this is the same patch worn by proud boys on 1/6.

Should be an automatic disqualification from obtaining a firearm. The level of hate a person like this has is dangerous to us all.

i can argue that that level of hate actually motivates someone to get an ar-15 style weapon. most people would not ever see a need to have one.

josevolution

Gern Blansten said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

the shooter wore a "right wing death squad" patch. this was not your average yosemite sam. this was a neo nazi white supremacist.

this is the same patch worn by proud boys on 1/6.

Yeah he's not a woke Biden voter for sure

Where’s three names racist sending condolences to this patriot or Trumpolinni offering his condolences to him! 

Halifax2TheMax

From CNN:

Witness and Army vet demands change, not thoughts and prayers 

Steven Spainhouer rushed to the gruesome scene after receiving a call from his son, who works at the mall’s H&M store and was hiding in a break room.

When Spainhouer arrived, he “started counting the bodies on the ground … one, two, three, five, six, seven bodies,” he told CNN.

“The first girl I walked up to … I felt for a pulse, pulled her head to the side, and she had no face,” 

He said one child survived after his mother shielded him from the bullets. But the mother was struck and killed.

“When I rolled the mother over, he came out,” Spainhouer told KTVT. “He was covered from head to toe, like somebody had poured blood on him.”

Spainhouer, a former police officer and Army veteran, said the degree of carnage at the mall was “unfathomable.”

“It’s tough when you see a family that’s out shopping, having fun, get wiped off the face of the Earth,” he told KTVT.

Nothing can be done.

OnWis97

Gern Blansten said:

I can see holding the gun shops accountable but yeah...unless the manufacturer is promoting backyard militia type stuff they really can't be held liable.

When I bought a handgun about 20 years ago the guy selling it to me said something like "the first thing you want to do is chamber a round and shoot it into the ground....that gets their attention".  I was like holy shit man what places are you hanging out in?

That same guy probably eventually moved onto "the first thing you want to do is chamber a round and shoot it into someone's leg....that gets their attention".

Now? "the first thing you want to do is chamber a round and shoot it into someone's chest....that gets their attention".

Gern Blansten

https://twitter.com/steven_seegel/status/1655637387530350598