Viruses / Vaccines

mrussel1

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Well said.  Would be a shame to lose such reasoned and thoughtful discussions!

Another thing people aren't taking into account here in the US is that due to our lack of affordable health care access and poor relationship to the healthcare for profit complex, we are seeing the problems such as vaccine and healthcare mistrust.  Not surprising that a centralized system like canada that allows greater and easier healthcare access has more citizens willing to get the vaccine and take care of themselves 78% fully vaxxed vs 62% here.

You should stop talking about the Canadian system.  It’s absolutely clear you know nothing about the system nor would you even take the time to look at it…what makes you think our system is centralized?  Do you think the entire system is government?  There are plenty of private healthcare operators in the Canadian System?  Quebec has private clinics.  They are known for private clinics.  Just because you perceive the system as free and not for profit does not make  it so…that is the biggest lie and farce about our healthcare system.  I recently had a procedure done at a private clinic funded by OHIP…

And just to get some clarity on the issue, how much a month do you pay in premiums to private insurance?  Do you have out of pocket expenses that are not covered OHIP?  Outside of taxes what is your monthly out of pocket expense for healthcare?

But how can you fairly evaluate without understanding the tax rate?

Gern Blansten

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Our healthcare plan is about 2k a month. About half is paid by us and half by our employer. So if you’re self employed you pay the whole 2k.
And the copays are often terrible. $30 for a regular dr visit, that’s not bad. But if they run tests, lab work, X-rays, or see a specialist that’s all additional.
Urgent care visit for something simple will usually run about $500. Emergency room is going to be a minimum of 2k, and that’s assuming it’s a short in and out visit. It’s several thousand a day if you stay over night.

And the paperwork...a daily barrage of bills or mailings that clearing say "this is not a bill" but then you get double the paper a month later that is the bill that the previous paperwork related to.

And then you get collection calls because you didn't pay the "bills" that you were unable to decifer.

static111

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Well said.  Would be a shame to lose such reasoned and thoughtful discussions!

Another thing people aren't taking into account here in the US is that due to our lack of affordable health care access and poor relationship to the healthcare for profit complex, we are seeing the problems such as vaccine and healthcare mistrust.  Not surprising that a centralized system like canada that allows greater and easier healthcare access has more citizens willing to get the vaccine and take care of themselves 78% fully vaxxed vs 62% here.

You should stop talking about the Canadian system.  It’s absolutely clear you know nothing about the system nor would you even take the time to look at it…what makes you think our system is centralized?  Do you think the entire system is government?  There are plenty of private healthcare operators in the Canadian System?  Quebec has private clinics.  They are known for private clinics.  Just because you perceive the system as free and not for profit does not make  it so…that is the biggest lie and farce about our healthcare system.  I recently had a procedure done at a private clinic funded by OHIP…

And just to get some clarity on the issue, how much a month do you pay in premiums to private insurance?  Do you have out of pocket expenses that are not covered OHIP?  Outside of taxes what is your monthly out of pocket expense for healthcare?

But how can you fairly evaluate without understanding the tax rate?

Federal tax bracket	Federal tax rates	Ontario tax rates
$49,020 or less	15.00%	5.05%
$49,021 to $98,040	20.50%	9.15%
$98,041 to $151,978	26.00%	11.16%
$151,979 to $216,511	29.00%	12.16%

Meltdown99

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Well said.  Would be a shame to lose such reasoned and thoughtful discussions!

Another thing people aren't taking into account here in the US is that due to our lack of affordable health care access and poor relationship to the healthcare for profit complex, we are seeing the problems such as vaccine and healthcare mistrust.  Not surprising that a centralized system like canada that allows greater and easier healthcare access has more citizens willing to get the vaccine and take care of themselves 78% fully vaxxed vs 62% here.

You should stop talking about the Canadian system.  It’s absolutely clear you know nothing about the system nor would you even take the time to look at it…what makes you think our system is centralized?  Do you think the entire system is government?  There are plenty of private healthcare operators in the Canadian System?  Quebec has private clinics.  They are known for private clinics.  Just because you perceive the system as free and not for profit does not make  it so…that is the biggest lie and farce about our healthcare system.  I recently had a procedure done at a private clinic funded by OHIP…

And just to get some clarity on the issue, how much a month do you pay in premiums to private insurance?  Do you have out of pocket expenses that are not covered OHIP?  Outside of taxes what is your monthly out of pocket expense for healthcare?

But how can you fairly evaluate without understanding the tax rate?

Federal tax bracket	Federal tax rates	Ontario tax rates
$49,020 or less	15.00%	5.05%
$49,021 to $98,040	20.50%	9.15%
$98,041 to $151,978	26.00%	11.16%
$151,979 to $216,511	29.00%	12.16%

Do you have any idea how much the average Canadian pays in taxes?  Not just income tax?  Really, do you?  Not just a quick google search.  

Meltdown99

Average Canadians pay 42.5 per cent of their income in taxes:

That's just income tax.  Now let's talk property tax, carbon tax, sales taxes, gas taxes, payroll taxes (which just got increased) and I'm sure there are many more being left out...Canada is so overtaxed our healthcare should be running like a well-oiled machine, not like a Russian Lada...

Politicians in Canada have never met a tax they did not like and eventually con Canadians into accepting as somehow beneficial...

oftenreading

Meltdown99 said:

Average Canadians pay 42.5 per cent of their income in taxes:

That's just income tax.  Now let's talk property tax, carbon tax, sales taxes, gas taxes, payroll taxes (which just got increased) and I'm sure there are many more being left out...Canada is so overtaxed our healthcare should be running like a well-oiled machine, not like a Russian Lada...

Politicians in Canada have never met a tax they did not like and eventually con Canadians into accepting as somehow beneficial...

Actually, the third line of the article you linked says this is total tax and includes property tax, sales tax and others in addition to income tax. 

mace1229

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Our healthcare plan is about 2k a month. About half is paid by us and half by our employer. So if you’re self employed you pay the whole 2k.
And the copays are often terrible. $30 for a regular dr visit, that’s not bad. But if they run tests, lab work, X-rays, or see a specialist that’s all additional.
Urgent care visit for something simple will usually run about $500. Emergency room is going to be a minimum of 2k, and that’s assuming it’s a short in and out visit. It’s several thousand a day if you stay over night.

Sounds like you need a new plan.

Don’t have a choice, only one offered. Only other option is paying fully out of pocket for the insurance.

Meltdown99

Anyone who claims the Canadian system isn’t horribly underfunded is full of it…

it’s underfunded and mismanaged by those given the dollars to manage it…and that complicates the problem.  

mrussel1

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Well said.  Would be a shame to lose such reasoned and thoughtful discussions!

Another thing people aren't taking into account here in the US is that due to our lack of affordable health care access and poor relationship to the healthcare for profit complex, we are seeing the problems such as vaccine and healthcare mistrust.  Not surprising that a centralized system like canada that allows greater and easier healthcare access has more citizens willing to get the vaccine and take care of themselves 78% fully vaxxed vs 62% here.

You should stop talking about the Canadian system.  It’s absolutely clear you know nothing about the system nor would you even take the time to look at it…what makes you think our system is centralized?  Do you think the entire system is government?  There are plenty of private healthcare operators in the Canadian System?  Quebec has private clinics.  They are known for private clinics.  Just because you perceive the system as free and not for profit does not make  it so…that is the biggest lie and farce about our healthcare system.  I recently had a procedure done at a private clinic funded by OHIP…

And just to get some clarity on the issue, how much a month do you pay in premiums to private insurance?  Do you have out of pocket expenses that are not covered OHIP?  Outside of taxes what is your monthly out of pocket expense for healthcare?

But how can you fairly evaluate without understanding the tax rate?

Federal tax bracket	Federal tax rates	Ontario tax rates
$49,020 or less	15.00%	5.05%
$49,021 to $98,040	20.50%	9.15%
$98,041 to $151,978	26.00%	11.16%
$151,979 to $216,511	29.00%	12.16%

Isn't that just provincial,  excluding the federal taxes? Plus you have double digit goods taxes too, which I think are essentially the equivalent of sales tax.  I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. 

HughFreakingDillon

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Well said.  Would be a shame to lose such reasoned and thoughtful discussions!

Another thing people aren't taking into account here in the US is that due to our lack of affordable health care access and poor relationship to the healthcare for profit complex, we are seeing the problems such as vaccine and healthcare mistrust.  Not surprising that a centralized system like canada that allows greater and easier healthcare access has more citizens willing to get the vaccine and take care of themselves 78% fully vaxxed vs 62% here.

You should stop talking about the Canadian system.  It’s absolutely clear you know nothing about the system nor would you even take the time to look at it…what makes you think our system is centralized?  Do you think the entire system is government?  There are plenty of private healthcare operators in the Canadian System?  Quebec has private clinics.  They are known for private clinics.  Just because you perceive the system as free and not for profit does not make  it so…that is the biggest lie and farce about our healthcare system.  I recently had a procedure done at a private clinic funded by OHIP…

And just to get some clarity on the issue, how much a month do you pay in premiums to private insurance?  Do you have out of pocket expenses that are not covered OHIP?  Outside of taxes what is your monthly out of pocket expense for healthcare?

But how can you fairly evaluate without understanding the tax rate?

Federal tax bracket	Federal tax rates	Ontario tax rates
$49,020 or less	15.00%	5.05%
$49,021 to $98,040	20.50%	9.15%
$98,041 to $151,978	26.00%	11.16%
$151,979 to $216,511	29.00%	12.16%

Isn't that just provincial,  excluding the federal taxes? Plus you have double digit goods taxes too, which I think are essentially the equivalent of sales tax.  I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. 

GST (goods and services tax) is 5% on most products and services. 
PST (provincial sales tax) in MB is 6%. Alberta doesn't have one. some have a blended GST/PST called HST (hybrid sales tax) that hovers around 13%. 

but there are state and local level sales taxes, are there not? sure, you aren't paying 13%, but some states are hovering around 10, no?

mrussel1

HughFreakingDillon said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Well said.  Would be a shame to lose such reasoned and thoughtful discussions!

Another thing people aren't taking into account here in the US is that due to our lack of affordable health care access and poor relationship to the healthcare for profit complex, we are seeing the problems such as vaccine and healthcare mistrust.  Not surprising that a centralized system like canada that allows greater and easier healthcare access has more citizens willing to get the vaccine and take care of themselves 78% fully vaxxed vs 62% here.

You should stop talking about the Canadian system.  It’s absolutely clear you know nothing about the system nor would you even take the time to look at it…what makes you think our system is centralized?  Do you think the entire system is government?  There are plenty of private healthcare operators in the Canadian System?  Quebec has private clinics.  They are known for private clinics.  Just because you perceive the system as free and not for profit does not make  it so…that is the biggest lie and farce about our healthcare system.  I recently had a procedure done at a private clinic funded by OHIP…

And just to get some clarity on the issue, how much a month do you pay in premiums to private insurance?  Do you have out of pocket expenses that are not covered OHIP?  Outside of taxes what is your monthly out of pocket expense for healthcare?

But how can you fairly evaluate without understanding the tax rate?

Federal tax bracket	Federal tax rates	Ontario tax rates
$49,020 or less	15.00%	5.05%
$49,021 to $98,040	20.50%	9.15%
$98,041 to $151,978	26.00%	11.16%
$151,979 to $216,511	29.00%	12.16%

Isn't that just provincial,  excluding the federal taxes? Plus you have double digit goods taxes too, which I think are essentially the equivalent of sales tax.  I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. 

GST (goods and services tax) is 5% on most products and services. 
PST (provincial sales tax) in MB is 6%. Alberta doesn't have one. some have a blended GST/PST called HST (hybrid sales tax) that hovers around 13%. 

but there are state and local level sales taxes, are there not? sure, you aren't paying 13%, but some states are hovering around 10, no?

Maybe up in NY, but not that high anywhere that I’ve lived. Our sales tax is 5.5% where I live. When I lived in Tampa it was 7.5% but no state income tax.  So you would leave the state to buy a car.  The state got wise to that and eventually made you show the sales tax you paid in a different state and pay the difference, along with a $500 import fee. 

static111

HughFreakingDillon said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Well said.  Would be a shame to lose such reasoned and thoughtful discussions!

Another thing people aren't taking into account here in the US is that due to our lack of affordable health care access and poor relationship to the healthcare for profit complex, we are seeing the problems such as vaccine and healthcare mistrust.  Not surprising that a centralized system like canada that allows greater and easier healthcare access has more citizens willing to get the vaccine and take care of themselves 78% fully vaxxed vs 62% here.

You should stop talking about the Canadian system.  It’s absolutely clear you know nothing about the system nor would you even take the time to look at it…what makes you think our system is centralized?  Do you think the entire system is government?  There are plenty of private healthcare operators in the Canadian System?  Quebec has private clinics.  They are known for private clinics.  Just because you perceive the system as free and not for profit does not make  it so…that is the biggest lie and farce about our healthcare system.  I recently had a procedure done at a private clinic funded by OHIP…

And just to get some clarity on the issue, how much a month do you pay in premiums to private insurance?  Do you have out of pocket expenses that are not covered OHIP?  Outside of taxes what is your monthly out of pocket expense for healthcare?

But how can you fairly evaluate without understanding the tax rate?

Federal tax bracket	Federal tax rates	Ontario tax rates
$49,020 or less	15.00%	5.05%
$49,021 to $98,040	20.50%	9.15%
$98,041 to $151,978	26.00%	11.16%
$151,979 to $216,511	29.00%	12.16%

Isn't that just provincial,  excluding the federal taxes? Plus you have double digit goods taxes too, which I think are essentially the equivalent of sales tax.  I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. 

GST (goods and services tax) is 5% on most products and services. 
PST (provincial sales tax) in MB is 6%. Alberta doesn't have one. some have a blended GST/PST called HST (hybrid sales tax) that hovers around 13%. 

but there are state and local level sales taxes, are there not? sure, you aren't paying 13%, but some states are hovering around 10, no?

8.25% in TX and we don't even get healthcare at all.  I'm not sure where it all goes, underfunded schools and over funded PDs

mrussel1

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Well said.  Would be a shame to lose such reasoned and thoughtful discussions!

Another thing people aren't taking into account here in the US is that due to our lack of affordable health care access and poor relationship to the healthcare for profit complex, we are seeing the problems such as vaccine and healthcare mistrust.  Not surprising that a centralized system like canada that allows greater and easier healthcare access has more citizens willing to get the vaccine and take care of themselves 78% fully vaxxed vs 62% here.

You should stop talking about the Canadian system.  It’s absolutely clear you know nothing about the system nor would you even take the time to look at it…what makes you think our system is centralized?  Do you think the entire system is government?  There are plenty of private healthcare operators in the Canadian System?  Quebec has private clinics.  They are known for private clinics.  Just because you perceive the system as free and not for profit does not make  it so…that is the biggest lie and farce about our healthcare system.  I recently had a procedure done at a private clinic funded by OHIP…

And just to get some clarity on the issue, how much a month do you pay in premiums to private insurance?  Do you have out of pocket expenses that are not covered OHIP?  Outside of taxes what is your monthly out of pocket expense for healthcare?

But how can you fairly evaluate without understanding the tax rate?

Federal tax bracket	Federal tax rates	Ontario tax rates
$49,020 or less	15.00%	5.05%
$49,021 to $98,040	20.50%	9.15%
$98,041 to $151,978	26.00%	11.16%
$151,979 to $216,511	29.00%	12.16%

Isn't that just provincial,  excluding the federal taxes? Plus you have double digit goods taxes too, which I think are essentially the equivalent of sales tax.  I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong. 

GST (goods and services tax) is 5% on most products and services. 
PST (provincial sales tax) in MB is 6%. Alberta doesn't have one. some have a blended GST/PST called HST (hybrid sales tax) that hovers around 13%. 

but there are state and local level sales taxes, are there not? sure, you aren't paying 13%, but some states are hovering around 10, no?

8.25% in TX and we don't even get healthcare at all.  I'm not sure where it all goes, underfunded schools and over funded PDs

But you have no state income tax… probably need one.

mcgruff10

All charges dropped against former Gov Cuomo in regard to Covid nursing home probe.  I don’t know how I feel about this one yet.  

bootlegger10

https://www.google.com/amp/s/abcnews.go.com/amp/Health/live-updates/coronavirus/%3fid=82048523

bootlegger10

Per above. The democratic governor is requesting a proper count of hospitalizations for Covid versus people who just happen to be Covid positive but hospitalized for different reasons.  You would think that is a silly question, but sadly it isn’t and we are not being provided with the correct numbers.  I am sure they are still high, but the governor said in the article that AS MUCH as 50% of patients may have been hospitalized for non Covid reasons.  

I can’t remember which thread but Fauci said something similar about children being hospitalized. 

Crap like this is why people don’t trust the government and the media.  This crap supports the far right argument that the government is playing up the virus and trying to control behavior…yada yada yada.  We shouldn’t be having these issues about hospitalization numbers this far into the pandemic.  It screams of an agenda to purposefully overstate the numbers.

nicknyr15

bootlegger10 said:

Per above. The democratic governor is requesting a proper count of hospitalizations for Covid versus people who just happen to be Covid positive but hospitalized for different reasons.  You would think that is a silly question, but sadly it isn’t and we are not being provided with the correct numbers.  I am sure they are still high, but the governor said in the article that AS MUCH as 50% of patients may have been hospitalized for non Covid reasons.  

I can’t remember which thread but Fauci said something similar about children being hospitalized. 

Crap like this is why people don’t trust the government and the media.  This crap supports the far right argument that the government is playing up the virus and trying to control behavior…yada yada yada.  We shouldn’t be having these issues about hospitalization numbers this far into the pandemic.  It screams of an agenda to purposefully overstate the numbers.

I agree! Great mine by Governor Hochul 

tempo_n_groove

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Our healthcare plan is about 2k a month. About half is paid by us and half by our employer. So if you’re self employed you pay the whole 2k.
And the copays are often terrible. $30 for a regular dr visit, that’s not bad. But if they run tests, lab work, X-rays, or see a specialist that’s all additional.
Urgent care visit for something simple will usually run about $500. Emergency room is going to be a minimum of 2k, and that’s assuming it’s a short in and out visit. It’s several thousand a day if you stay over night.

Sounds like you need a new plan.

Don’t have a choice, only one offered. Only other option is paying fully out of pocket for the insurance.

It's the one part of Obamacare that I was unhappy with.  The lack of good choices as an individual.  I have a "gold package"  not sure what tier you were offered or have but it's nothing like my company health care I had previous to this one.

mrussel1

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Our healthcare plan is about 2k a month. About half is paid by us and half by our employer. So if you’re self employed you pay the whole 2k.
And the copays are often terrible. $30 for a regular dr visit, that’s not bad. But if they run tests, lab work, X-rays, or see a specialist that’s all additional.
Urgent care visit for something simple will usually run about $500. Emergency room is going to be a minimum of 2k, and that’s assuming it’s a short in and out visit. It’s several thousand a day if you stay over night.

Sounds like you need a new plan.

Don’t have a choice, only one offered. Only other option is paying fully out of pocket for the insurance.

It's the one part of Obamacare that I was unhappy with.  The lack of good choices as an individual.  I have a "gold package"  not sure what tier you were offered or have but it's nothing like my company health care I had previous to this one.

Insurance plans have been markedly worse every year since about 2000.  

tempo_n_groove

mrussel1 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

mace1229 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Meltdown99 said:

static111 said:

Meltdown99 said:

Socialized medicine in Canada is really great until a crisis hits then it easily collapses…

just kidding it has never been great…

Well here in the US we have private for profit medicine, and it still sucks and gets overwhelmed, but we do pay an arm and a leg and keep those insurance company profits high!

Oh please.  Cry me a river.  We pay a shit ton of tax for a system that bogs down at the 1st sign of a crisis.  And if you don’t think people in our socialized medicine don’t make big bucks…think again.  The CEO of my local hospital makes 500 grand a year…pretty generous for a so called not for profit system. 

I get the feeling you have a limited understanding of not for profit.

our tax systems, also, compare pretty closely, except for one main area: our tax rate stays lower to a higher income bracket in the middle class income area, so the lower-to-middle class are often better off in canada. but it's marginal. 

until you have to pay for healthcare. imagine having our same taxes and on top of that paying an additional $1500 per month for a family of 4 for a copay on top of that. 

I'd say he has every right to cry as many rivers as he wishes. 

Our healthcare plan is about 2k a month. About half is paid by us and half by our employer. So if you’re self employed you pay the whole 2k.
And the copays are often terrible. $30 for a regular dr visit, that’s not bad. But if they run tests, lab work, X-rays, or see a specialist that’s all additional.
Urgent care visit for something simple will usually run about $500. Emergency room is going to be a minimum of 2k, and that’s assuming it’s a short in and out visit. It’s several thousand a day if you stay over night.

Sounds like you need a new plan.

Don’t have a choice, only one offered. Only other option is paying fully out of pocket for the insurance.

It's the one part of Obamacare that I was unhappy with.  The lack of good choices as an individual.  I have a "gold package"  not sure what tier you were offered or have but it's nothing like my company health care I had previous to this one.

Insurance plans have been markedly worse every year since about 2000.  

For individuals?  If so I wouldn't know.  I didn't have to find a private one until 2014 and I will say it was night and day from my group one I had previously...