WOKE

Tim Simmons

mace1229 said:

Tim Simmons said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747

Further, if a private bakery can deny baking a wedding cake to a gay couple, why can’t a private company hire to have the diversity of staff that is a more accurate representation of society. Sorry, but white males aren’t the only humans that exist.

Because they are judging applicants or current employees based on gender and/or color of skin, not absolute skill nor qualifications.

picking what type of product you wish to sell has nothing to do with measuring the skills and performance  of your employees.

Your anecdotes are getting more and more horrible. Time for some self reflection how you judge people?

Skill and qualifications are absolutely the first hoop they went through before factoring race/gender.

you think they hired someone who couldn't do a job because they needed to check a box? Sounds like they aren't very good at managing. That would be a bigger issue to me.

Thats not what anyone said. Filling DEI quotas you can still fill all the requirements for a job. But it is likely some even more qualified candidates will get passed over. Let's take a specialized surgeon for example. You can have 100 surgeons qualified and apply for only 10 positions. If the hospital is required to fill 5 of those positions with minorities, and say only 5 minorities applied for the job, then all 5 automatically get it. They then will take the top 5 of the remaining candidates to fill the rest of the positions. Do you think all 5 of those minorities would have been in the top 10 if race wasn't a factor? Statistically speaking, no, so therefore more qualified people (surgeons with an even higher success rate and scores, or however they rate surgeons, I have no idea) were passed over. That doesn't mean that those 5 hired were unqualified. But if I'm getting surgery, I'd want someone in the top 5%, not the top 50%. And anyone hiring should want the same. 

But this isn’t DEI. This sounds closer to affirmative action. 

Lerxst1992

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

The only thing consistent around here is the lack of understanding. Consensus, it’s a thing.

Go to your next management meeting and demand to go back to rotary phones and tri-copy forms and paper in file cabinets. Then stamp your feet, pout and try to sabotage any initiative leadership is promoting. See how long you last. Then, while waiting for your unemployment benefits to kick in, write a book complaining about how your company isn’t a big tent company willing to listen to alternative ideas.

And I thought it was, “if you’re not with us, you’re with the terrorists?”

Also consistent is your bad analogies.

How so?

You make an example of wanting to go back to archaic means and methods while getting fired for them yet you state that you got fired for the company not listening to alternative ideas.

Being anti-woke is not sending us back into the stone age no matter what Trump tries to undo. Some setbacks for sure but not square 1.

This is where I thought you were going with this.

I've never been fired from a job.

My analogy was a you as in general you, and the comparison was Manchurian wanting coal to be king again, despite the dem leadership and caucus wanting to go green, not to mention public polling, and a hypothetical of an employee wanting to go back to the old, outdated method of doing business. Coal, and by extension fossil fuels to some degree (we'll never eliminate all needs/uses), are the past, while solar, wind and fusion are the future. Manchurian threw a hissy fit when his desired outcome was rejected by dem leadership and the caucus.

so you’re  admitting you’ve never been targeted by DEI quotas?


the problem with your united airlines quota example  is exactly that. When they do a restructure they will look to their quotas for employment decisions. Perhaps Pear Jam should try out DEI quotas also if they’re so great?

I hear dolly parton can still sing?

Not that I’m aware of and if I were, oh well, I’m a white male with bestowed privileges and rights, many of which women and minorities don’t enjoy. If I were, I wouldn’t piss and moan about it but pick myself up by my bootstraps and try, try again.

Reorganizations, restructuring and related staffing are dictated to some degree by union rules as in seniority in the flight attendants and pilots unions. Last hired, first fired.

I’m guessing you’ve never worked in a union environment as a union member?

Pearl Jam doesn’t need a singer. They need a drummer. Can Dolly play the drums to the PJ catalog?

So we agree they better hire Brian Blade, or they are hypocrites if they dont denounce DEI?

A little absurd bringing up unions which represent 6% of workers in private sector

so to answer the question, you have zero idea what it’s like, but refuse to listen to the other side whatsoever and perhaps learn something . Smart.

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747

I’d love for PJ to hire a qualified black drummer just so I could enjoy the MAGA meltdown, cancellation of memberships and my potential moving up in the order. Maybe the drummer for The Roots is available?

Maybe there need to be more union membership. I have zero idea about what? Being a victim of DEI? Are you a victim?

Does it matter? Suffice to say I've seen it from a close enough distance. I've seen large corporations use remote working to shift people around into new roles and getting rid of experienced people in those roles, something they could not do before remote working. I've seen them put names side by side and figure out ways to benefit certain individuals with less relevant experience. It's literally the mirror image of you referencing a resume with a *certain name on it.


If your politics requires you to not believe people who are speaking the truth, then what value are your opinions... that you are putting these ridiculous footnotes on?

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747

Your lived experience does not equal the “norm” or “majority.” And why should I believe the guy who can’t articulate a single thought without copying and pasting AI? Just because you claim it so doesn’t mean I have to believe it or accept it as truth or reality. Let me ask, if you’re such a victim of DEI, have you retained an attorney and filed a discrimination lawsuit? Filed an EEOC complaint? Looked for another job, maybe relocated?

What is wrong with your politics that you can’t recognize absolute truth and facts like the US’s long sordid history of treatment of minorities, from it’s inception to today, and the attempt to right past wrongs, or things like Israeli genocide in Gaza? I think I know why, it’s easier to play victim and blame others for your situation. I’d give you some advice but I’d be wasting my time.

What an absolute joke of a comment. These comments are like Fox News of the Left. Something needs to be in the majority to be real? Someone needs to be a victim for it to be legitimate opinion ? offering jobs based on the color of skin or gender is a handout. And discriminatory. There are other ways to help people who have suffered. But this woke racism is trash…”Only people of color suffered in this world, and people can only be rewarded based on what group they are in.” What an insane world view.

based on this logic Israel gets their entire ancient country back because …oh snap, white minorities, let’s ignore the showers, let’s ignore Rome. israel doesn’t get handouts due to woke racism, wokes only see color in who they wish to reward.

My situation? What insane nonsense. I am still working for personal reasons, for reasons other than DEI. And it’s none of your f*king business.

It’s BS you are allowed to act like this with impunity until the fire gets hot and then the mods wake up, but moderate with a blind eye, so this trash never improves. Mocking people’s opinions based on false accusations of someone’s personal situation. Lying about someone else’s situation? Trash. Either let us rip at each other mods or stop this personal attack crap. 

Making up lies about others should be against the effing ten club rules. IT SHOULD BE THE ONE THING AGAIST THE RULES. Or let everything go. Which is my preference. Let’s the air out while promoting honesty.

And stop with the Palestinian war in every thread. This is a war they asked for. Not me. 

HughFreakingDillon

Halifax2TheMax

benjs said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

I keep seeing the complaint regarding United Airlines announcing that they want to have 50% of their pilots be minorities and women. In 2021, when they made this announcement, 7% of their pilots were women and 13% were minorities. What is the problem with stating this as a goal? If they recruit, train and the folks pass and qualify, what's the issue? That they announced it? Made it a goal? That any initiative to increase diversity must be at the expense of white males? Why is DEI considered "woke" and wrong?

If you woke up one day and flew on United, or were a business traveler, and recognized that there were more women and minority pilots than you were used to seeing, would you be concerned and be complaining? Would you stop flying United? Would you be like Charlie and question the qualifications and competency of the person at the controls?

What's the freak out about?

If the current female and minority percentage is 20%, and the goal is to increase that percentage to 50%, it is mathematically the same as saying that the goal is to assure that the current 80% white male representation goes down to 50%.

It’s not so hard to see how a quota or target system like this pisses people with a former advantage off. From their perspective, it’s removing three-eighths of available jobs from their demographic. 

I still believe in this strategy to help put a dent in fixing decades of imbalances and support it, but there are a finite number of jobs, and giving more to one demographic necessitates giving less to another. 

Also, the argument above which is based in reason doesn’t include racism or sexism at all, although your response assumes the criticism is based on one or both. 

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747

I have a slightly different perspective, surprise. I think it was Mace who brought up United several times and how announcing that 50% of new hires would be either women or minorities. It made me think, as my previous posts attest, about what that might look like. Here goes, for what its fucking worth around these parts:

Lets make some assumptions for simplicity, you could extrapolate out the numbers based on their current level of staffing for pilots but I digress. Lets assume United has 100 pilots and 7% are women, 13% are minorities (there may be cross overs, minority women but for sake of argument), and 80% are white males. 20 are minorities and women and 80 are white males. United didn't say they were reducing current staffing to be 50% minorities and women and 50% would be white males. They stated that they had hiring goals for new hires to be 50% minorities and women going forward.

United expands routes, needs to replace retiring pilots, etc. and has a goal of hiring 100 pilots a year for 5 years, 50% of which would be minorities and women and 50% would be white males. And lets assume that the split of 50% between minorities and women would be split evenly. This results in 25 women (25%), 25 minorities (25%) and 50 white males (50%) being hired each year for five years. Lets assume no one retired from the original 100 but they grew their pilot base due to demand and new routes.

At the end of five years, you'd have 600 pilots with 132 women representing 22% of all pilots, 138 minorities representing 23% of all pilots and 330 white males, representing 55% of all pilots. Again, there could be cross over. 45% of pilots are women and minorities and 55% are white males.

The US population in 2021 was approximately 49.1% male and 50.9% female. Whites made up 59.3% of the total population while Hispanics made up 18.9%, Blacks 12.6% and Asians 5.9%, and other races the balance.

Questions to anyone who wants to respond:

What is wrong with this approach? It seems to me that males and white males in particular are still over represented. Where is the harm in this approach? What if United hadn't announced it and just did it and their pilot pool looked like the above after 5 years? Is there a better way to do it? Based on actual percentages as it relates to population? Applicant pool of thousands all qualified, divide them up by race/gender as reflected in the last census, put ping pong balls in a lottery thingy and draw numbers until you reached that percentage for that group (random)?

I'll add that there are winners and losers in everything as it relates to life. The college you get accepted to, the job you get, the bank loan offered or not, car loans, insurance and credit cards and their corresponding interest rates, sports competitions, etc. So yes, losers lose out and complain but the simple fact that one might be white, that that gives them and has given them through the centuries, an advantage. Never mind the studies that prove diversity leads to better outcomes, profits, technological advancements and efficiencies, etc., or that applications/resumes with the same skills but different sounding names leads to unfair hiring practices.

Yes, I've been treated unfairly, I haven't gotten jobs that I applied for, I've sat through countless hours of DEI and sensitivity training and yet, I've somehow been able to stay gainfully employed since I was 13 years old. When workplaces sucked, I moved on, often upward. And yes, I'm a white male.

Gimme's link to the guy whoever he was that was stating "they" tear it down and only look out for themselves while "we" build it up and see the benefit in all benefitting, or words to that effect, is spot on. If you, general you, think white males have had it hard throughout history, imagine what women and minorities, particularly indigenous, have had to, and continue to, contend with.

edit to unequivocally state that I was never good and remain terrible at the maths.

Halifax2TheMax

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

The only thing consistent around here is the lack of understanding. Consensus, it’s a thing.

Go to your next management meeting and demand to go back to rotary phones and tri-copy forms and paper in file cabinets. Then stamp your feet, pout and try to sabotage any initiative leadership is promoting. See how long you last. Then, while waiting for your unemployment benefits to kick in, write a book complaining about how your company isn’t a big tent company willing to listen to alternative ideas.

And I thought it was, “if you’re not with us, you’re with the terrorists?”

Also consistent is your bad analogies.

How so?

You make an example of wanting to go back to archaic means and methods while getting fired for them yet you state that you got fired for the company not listening to alternative ideas.

Being anti-woke is not sending us back into the stone age no matter what Trump tries to undo. Some setbacks for sure but not square 1.

This is where I thought you were going with this.

I've never been fired from a job.

My analogy was a you as in general you, and the comparison was Manchurian wanting coal to be king again, despite the dem leadership and caucus wanting to go green, not to mention public polling, and a hypothetical of an employee wanting to go back to the old, outdated method of doing business. Coal, and by extension fossil fuels to some degree (we'll never eliminate all needs/uses), are the past, while solar, wind and fusion are the future. Manchurian threw a hissy fit when his desired outcome was rejected by dem leadership and the caucus.

so you’re  admitting you’ve never been targeted by DEI quotas?


the problem with your united airlines quota example  is exactly that. When they do a restructure they will look to their quotas for employment decisions. Perhaps Pear Jam should try out DEI quotas also if they’re so great?

I hear dolly parton can still sing?

Not that I’m aware of and if I were, oh well, I’m a white male with bestowed privileges and rights, many of which women and minorities don’t enjoy. If I were, I wouldn’t piss and moan about it but pick myself up by my bootstraps and try, try again.

Reorganizations, restructuring and related staffing are dictated to some degree by union rules as in seniority in the flight attendants and pilots unions. Last hired, first fired.

I’m guessing you’ve never worked in a union environment as a union member?

Pearl Jam doesn’t need a singer. They need a drummer. Can Dolly play the drums to the PJ catalog?

So we agree they better hire Brian Blade, or they are hypocrites if they dont denounce DEI?

A little absurd bringing up unions which represent 6% of workers in private sector

so to answer the question, you have zero idea what it’s like, but refuse to listen to the other side whatsoever and perhaps learn something . Smart.

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747

I’d love for PJ to hire a qualified black drummer just so I could enjoy the MAGA meltdown, cancellation of memberships and my potential moving up in the order. Maybe the drummer for The Roots is available?

Maybe there need to be more union membership. I have zero idea about what? Being a victim of DEI? Are you a victim?

Does it matter? Suffice to say I've seen it from a close enough distance. I've seen large corporations use remote working to shift people around into new roles and getting rid of experienced people in those roles, something they could not do before remote working. I've seen them put names side by side and figure out ways to benefit certain individuals with less relevant experience. It's literally the mirror image of you referencing a resume with a *certain name on it.


If your politics requires you to not believe people who are speaking the truth, then what value are your opinions... that you are putting these ridiculous footnotes on?

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747

Your lived experience does not equal the “norm” or “majority.” And why should I believe the guy who can’t articulate a single thought without copying and pasting AI? Just because you claim it so doesn’t mean I have to believe it or accept it as truth or reality. Let me ask, if you’re such a victim of DEI, have you retained an attorney and filed a discrimination lawsuit? Filed an EEOC complaint? Looked for another job, maybe relocated?

What is wrong with your politics that you can’t recognize absolute truth and facts like the US’s long sordid history of treatment of minorities, from it’s inception to today, and the attempt to right past wrongs, or things like Israeli genocide in Gaza? I think I know why, it’s easier to play victim and blame others for your situation. I’d give you some advice but I’d be wasting my time.

What an absolute joke of a comment. These comments are like Fox News of the Left. Something needs to be in the majority to be real? Someone needs to be a victim for it to be legitimate opinion ? offering jobs based on the color of skin or gender is a handout. And discriminatory. There are other ways to help people who have suffered. But this woke racism is trash…”Only people of color suffered in this world, and people can only be rewarded based on what group they are in.” What an insane world view.

based on this logic Israel gets their entire ancient country back because …oh snap, white minorities, let’s ignore the showers, let’s ignore Rome. israel doesn’t get handouts due to woke racism, wokes only see color in who they wish to reward.

My situation? What insane nonsense. I am still working for personal reasons, for reasons other than DEI. And it’s none of your f*king business.

It’s BS you are allowed to act like this with impunity until the fire gets hot and then the mods wake up, but moderate with a blind eye, so this trash never improves. Mocking people’s opinions based on false accusations of someone’s personal situation. Lying about someone else’s situation? Trash. Either let us rip at each other mods or stop this personal attack crap. 

Making up lies about others should be against the effing ten club rules. IT SHOULD BE THE ONE THING AGAIST THE RULES. Or let everything go. Which is my preference. Let’s the air out while promoting honesty.

And stop with the Palestinian war in every thread. This is a war they asked for. Not me. 

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747

There's a flag feature. There's also a PM/DM feature for communicating with the mods. There's also an ignore feature. Take your pick(s).

Tim Simmons

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

tempo_n_groove said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

The only thing consistent around here is the lack of understanding. Consensus, it’s a thing.

Go to your next management meeting and demand to go back to rotary phones and tri-copy forms and paper in file cabinets. Then stamp your feet, pout and try to sabotage any initiative leadership is promoting. See how long you last. Then, while waiting for your unemployment benefits to kick in, write a book complaining about how your company isn’t a big tent company willing to listen to alternative ideas.

And I thought it was, “if you’re not with us, you’re with the terrorists?”

Also consistent is your bad analogies.

How so?

You make an example of wanting to go back to archaic means and methods while getting fired for them yet you state that you got fired for the company not listening to alternative ideas.

Being anti-woke is not sending us back into the stone age no matter what Trump tries to undo. Some setbacks for sure but not square 1.

This is where I thought you were going with this.

I've never been fired from a job.

My analogy was a you as in general you, and the comparison was Manchurian wanting coal to be king again, despite the dem leadership and caucus wanting to go green, not to mention public polling, and a hypothetical of an employee wanting to go back to the old, outdated method of doing business. Coal, and by extension fossil fuels to some degree (we'll never eliminate all needs/uses), are the past, while solar, wind and fusion are the future. Manchurian threw a hissy fit when his desired outcome was rejected by dem leadership and the caucus.

so you’re  admitting you’ve never been targeted by DEI quotas?


the problem with your united airlines quota example  is exactly that. When they do a restructure they will look to their quotas for employment decisions. Perhaps Pear Jam should try out DEI quotas also if they’re so great?

I hear dolly parton can still sing?

Not that I’m aware of and if I were, oh well, I’m a white male with bestowed privileges and rights, many of which women and minorities don’t enjoy. If I were, I wouldn’t piss and moan about it but pick myself up by my bootstraps and try, try again.

Reorganizations, restructuring and related staffing are dictated to some degree by union rules as in seniority in the flight attendants and pilots unions. Last hired, first fired.

I’m guessing you’ve never worked in a union environment as a union member?

Pearl Jam doesn’t need a singer. They need a drummer. Can Dolly play the drums to the PJ catalog?

So we agree they better hire Brian Blade, or they are hypocrites if they dont denounce DEI?

A little absurd bringing up unions which represent 6% of workers in private sector

so to answer the question, you have zero idea what it’s like, but refuse to listen to the other side whatsoever and perhaps learn something . Smart.

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747

I’d love for PJ to hire a qualified black drummer just so I could enjoy the MAGA meltdown, cancellation of memberships and my potential moving up in the order. Maybe the drummer for The Roots is available?

Maybe there need to be more union membership. I have zero idea about what? Being a victim of DEI? Are you a victim?

Does it matter? Suffice to say I've seen it from a close enough distance. I've seen large corporations use remote working to shift people around into new roles and getting rid of experienced people in those roles, something they could not do before remote working. I've seen them put names side by side and figure out ways to benefit certain individuals with less relevant experience. It's literally the mirror image of you referencing a resume with a *certain name on it.


If your politics requires you to not believe people who are speaking the truth, then what value are your opinions... that you are putting these ridiculous footnotes on?

* The following opinion is mine and mine alone and does not represent the views of my family, friends, government and/or my past, present or future employer. US Department of State: 1-888-407-4747

Your lived experience does not equal the “norm” or “majority.” And why should I believe the guy who can’t articulate a single thought without copying and pasting AI? Just because you claim it so doesn’t mean I have to believe it or accept it as truth or reality. Let me ask, if you’re such a victim of DEI, have you retained an attorney and filed a discrimination lawsuit? Filed an EEOC complaint? Looked for another job, maybe relocated?

What is wrong with your politics that you can’t recognize absolute truth and facts like the US’s long sordid history of treatment of minorities, from it’s inception to today, and the attempt to right past wrongs, or things like Israeli genocide in Gaza? I think I know why, it’s easier to play victim and blame others for your situation. I’d give you some advice but I’d be wasting my time.

What an absolute joke of a comment. These comments are like Fox News of the Left. Something needs to be in the majority to be real? Someone needs to be a victim for it to be legitimate opinion ? offering jobs based on the color of skin or gender is a handout. And discriminatory. There are other ways to help people who have suffered. But this woke racism is trash…”Only people of color suffered in this world, and people can only be rewarded based on what group they are in.” What an insane world view.

based on this logic Israel gets their entire ancient country back because …oh snap, white minorities, let’s ignore the showers, let’s ignore Rome. israel doesn’t get handouts due to woke racism, wokes only see color in who they wish to reward.

My situation? What insane nonsense. I am still working for personal reasons, for reasons other than DEI. And it’s none of your f*king business.

It’s BS you are allowed to act like this with impunity until the fire gets hot and then the mods wake up, but moderate with a blind eye, so this trash never improves. Mocking people’s opinions based on false accusations of someone’s personal situation. Lying about someone else’s situation? Trash. Either let us rip at each other mods or stop this personal attack crap. 

Making up lies about others should be against the effing ten club rules. IT SHOULD BE THE ONE THING AGAIST THE RULES. Or let everything go. Which is my preference. Let’s the air out while promoting honesty.

And stop with the Palestinian war in every thread. This is a war they asked for. Not me. 

tbergs

Stewart coming in and the TDS team putting together this gem.

https://youtu.be/_GXNJ3V9lzg?si=k8ncZCECSAMZQFmW