Cancelled!

The Juggler

oftenreading said:

One big thing that is being missed here is that the decision was made by the organization that promotes and protects Geisel‘s estate, not an outside body. Is it really “cancelling” if the artists themselves or their estate makes the decision to withdraw works or cease publication? Why shouldn’t people be allowed to cease production or publication of works they own, if they don’t think they are relevant or appropriate any longer? 

I'm betting they felt pressure from some outside forces to take that action though.

Merkin Baller

Call me crazy, but this portrayal of Africans isn’t a part of my culture that I feel needs protecting or preserving. 

We don’t have to pretend it never existed (that might be worse), but if the people publishing this don’t want to continue publishing it, I don’t see that as a bad thing.

oftenreading

The Juggler said:

oftenreading said:

One big thing that is being missed here is that the decision was made by the organization that promotes and protects Geisel‘s estate, not an outside body. Is it really “cancelling” if the artists themselves or their estate makes the decision to withdraw works or cease publication? Why shouldn’t people be allowed to cease production or publication of works they own, if they don’t think they are relevant or appropriate any longer? 

I'm betting they felt pressure from some outside forces to take that action though.

Maybe, or maybe not. In any event, they have the right to decide. 

https://apple.news/AdByanklnRqWRw5FkIjI1lg

hedonist

oftenreading said:

One big thing that is being missed here is that the decision was made by the organization that promotes and protects Geisel‘s estate, not an outside body. Is it really “cancelling” if the artists themselves or their estate makes the decision to withdraw works or cease publication? Why shouldn’t people be allowed to cease production or publication of works they own, if they don’t think they are relevant or appropriate any longer? 

I would agree; do what you want with your art (or that you own). I guess that bled, for me, into the Potato Head and related hoopla. 

Ledbetterman10

The Juggler said:

oftenreading said:

One big thing that is being missed here is that the decision was made by the organization that promotes and protects Geisel‘s estate, not an outside body. Is it really “cancelling” if the artists themselves or their estate makes the decision to withdraw works or cease publication? Why shouldn’t people be allowed to cease production or publication of works they own, if they don’t think they are relevant or appropriate any longer? 

I'm betting they felt pressure from some outside forces to take that action though.

It's probably due to the overall climate of these sort of things. Might as well stop publishing a few "problematic" books before some school district decides to ban the entire catalog. 

mace1229

Merkin Baller said:

hedonist said:

The right, the left, the middle, oh my!

Erasing something doesn’t make it go *poof*. Apply common sense and compassion, and fuck everyone else - the sensitive, the overly sensitive, the numb. Harsh? Perhaps...

Also, I wonder if those books could be used as a learning tool rather than pulling them altogether. Explain to the younger ones about stereotypes, outdated schools of thought and action, etc. 

I don’t disagree, but not publishing 6 books moving forward doesn’t equate to pulling or canceling something, at least not IMO. Last I checked no one was banning Dr Seuss books. & the Mr Potato Head outcry was absurd... the existence of a gender neutral toy shouldn’t threaten anyone’s way of life. 

I agree the mob mentality in our society sucks, and I definitely don’t deny its existence. I couldn’t care less about the bachelor, but I think it’s dumb for that guy to lose his job over some boneheaded statements. 

I just don’t think “cancel culture” is the problem that yes, The Right is making it out to be, at least not compared to some of the other issues currently plaguing our nation.

Regarding your last comment, it’s already done that for me... this morning alone I read up a bit Dr Seuss’s history of political cartoons, and it’s an interesting one. I implore all to do some research on it. 

I don’t agree w/ censorship, but OTOH, it’s not unreasonable to look at some art & decide it isn’t really relevant for modern day (if not outright offensive & racist).

I don't think the Mr Potato head thing is going to threaten my way of life. But I find it pointless and kind of stupid. They clearly have gender stereotypes to dress them up as. Lipstick lips or a mustache for example. So why dress them as gender stereotypes and not use gender roles like Mr and Mrs? Who's next, Pacman? It doesn't bother or affect me, I haven't said anything to anyone about it. But since it was brought up, I'll point out I think it is stupid. And what is the point, unless they are going with complete gender neutral features for eyes, lips, and everything else? Which would make Potato Head extremely boring and probably go out of business after all these years. Unless they do away with all that and make it a boring toy, to me its like claiming Barbie is gender neutral, or non-binary, but continue to keep her features the same. 

Merkin Baller

mace1229 said:

Merkin Baller said:

hedonist said:

The right, the left, the middle, oh my!

Erasing something doesn’t make it go *poof*. Apply common sense and compassion, and fuck everyone else - the sensitive, the overly sensitive, the numb. Harsh? Perhaps...

Also, I wonder if those books could be used as a learning tool rather than pulling them altogether. Explain to the younger ones about stereotypes, outdated schools of thought and action, etc. 

I don’t disagree, but not publishing 6 books moving forward doesn’t equate to pulling or canceling something, at least not IMO. Last I checked no one was banning Dr Seuss books. & the Mr Potato Head outcry was absurd... the existence of a gender neutral toy shouldn’t threaten anyone’s way of life. 

I agree the mob mentality in our society sucks, and I definitely don’t deny its existence. I couldn’t care less about the bachelor, but I think it’s dumb for that guy to lose his job over some boneheaded statements. 

I just don’t think “cancel culture” is the problem that yes, The Right is making it out to be, at least not compared to some of the other issues currently plaguing our nation.

Regarding your last comment, it’s already done that for me... this morning alone I read up a bit Dr Seuss’s history of political cartoons, and it’s an interesting one. I implore all to do some research on it. 

I don’t agree w/ censorship, but OTOH, it’s not unreasonable to look at some art & decide it isn’t really relevant for modern day (if not outright offensive & racist).

I don't think the Mr Potato head thing is going to threaten my way of life. But I find it pointless and kind of stupid. They clearly have gender stereotypes to dress them up as. Lipstick lips or a mustache for example. So why dress them as gender stereotypes and not use gender roles like Mr and Mrs? Who's next, Pacman? It doesn't bother or affect me, I haven't said anything to anyone about it. But since it was brought up, I'll point out I think it is stupid. And what is the point, unless they are going with complete gender neutral features for eyes, lips, and everything else? Which would make Potato Head extremely boring and probably go out of business after all these years. Unless they do away with all that and make it a boring toy, to me its like claiming Barbie is gender neutral, or non-binary, but continue to keep her features the same. 

Except they’re not discontinuing Mr or Mrs Potato Head. You can still get your gender specific potato to dress up (can’t believe I typed that). This backlash is over a third, gender neutral option being made available... do people really care that much?

mace1229

Merkin Baller said:

mace1229 said:

Merkin Baller said:

hedonist said:

The right, the left, the middle, oh my!

Erasing something doesn’t make it go *poof*. Apply common sense and compassion, and fuck everyone else - the sensitive, the overly sensitive, the numb. Harsh? Perhaps...

Also, I wonder if those books could be used as a learning tool rather than pulling them altogether. Explain to the younger ones about stereotypes, outdated schools of thought and action, etc. 

I don’t disagree, but not publishing 6 books moving forward doesn’t equate to pulling or canceling something, at least not IMO. Last I checked no one was banning Dr Seuss books. & the Mr Potato Head outcry was absurd... the existence of a gender neutral toy shouldn’t threaten anyone’s way of life. 

I agree the mob mentality in our society sucks, and I definitely don’t deny its existence. I couldn’t care less about the bachelor, but I think it’s dumb for that guy to lose his job over some boneheaded statements. 

I just don’t think “cancel culture” is the problem that yes, The Right is making it out to be, at least not compared to some of the other issues currently plaguing our nation.

Regarding your last comment, it’s already done that for me... this morning alone I read up a bit Dr Seuss’s history of political cartoons, and it’s an interesting one. I implore all to do some research on it. 

I don’t agree w/ censorship, but OTOH, it’s not unreasonable to look at some art & decide it isn’t really relevant for modern day (if not outright offensive & racist).

I don't think the Mr Potato head thing is going to threaten my way of life. But I find it pointless and kind of stupid. They clearly have gender stereotypes to dress them up as. Lipstick lips or a mustache for example. So why dress them as gender stereotypes and not use gender roles like Mr and Mrs? Who's next, Pacman? It doesn't bother or affect me, I haven't said anything to anyone about it. But since it was brought up, I'll point out I think it is stupid. And what is the point, unless they are going with complete gender neutral features for eyes, lips, and everything else? Which would make Potato Head extremely boring and probably go out of business after all these years. Unless they do away with all that and make it a boring toy, to me its like claiming Barbie is gender neutral, or non-binary, but continue to keep her features the same. 

Except they’re not discontinuing Mr or Mrs Potato Head. You can still get your gender specific potato to dress up (can’t believe I typed that). This backlash is over a third, gender neutral option being made available... do people really care that much?

It is? I thought they were keeping the same toy, but dropping the "Mr." from the name? That's a pretty stupid thing to be upset over. You think it will scar your kid to see a gender neutral potato, don't buy it.

dankind

Mrs. Potato Head came later. 

I call it a bargain if you get all the attachments under the simple banner of Potato Head instead of having to buy different models. Probably pretty fun/meaningful for curious kids to be able to mix up some of those attachments as well, I'd think. If it helps the next generation or two down the line not to see patriarchy everywhere they goddamn go, I don't find any fault with that either.

The people who tend to bring these issues up for ridicule fail to see that there is absolutely nothing detrimental about any of it. Absolutely no one was hurt, and some may even be healed. How terrible!

tempo_n_groove

oftenreading said:

The Juggler said:

oftenreading said:

One big thing that is being missed here is that the decision was made by the organization that promotes and protects Geisel‘s estate, not an outside body. Is it really “cancelling” if the artists themselves or their estate makes the decision to withdraw works or cease publication? Why shouldn’t people be allowed to cease production or publication of works they own, if they don’t think they are relevant or appropriate any longer? 

I'm betting they felt pressure from some outside forces to take that action though.

Maybe, or maybe not. In any event, they have the right to decide. 

https://apple.news/AdByanklnRqWRw5FkIjI1lg

It will only be a matter of time before Huck Fin and To Kill a Mockingbird join these books.  It has always been in talks about being banned.

Anyone ever see the latest rendition on Broadway?  I really wanted to go see it but the world stopped and didn't have the chance.  I was very curious if they omitted the N word during it?

dankind

tempo_n_groove said:

oftenreading said:

The Juggler said:

oftenreading said:

One big thing that is being missed here is that the decision was made by the organization that promotes and protects Geisel‘s estate, not an outside body. Is it really “cancelling” if the artists themselves or their estate makes the decision to withdraw works or cease publication? Why shouldn’t people be allowed to cease production or publication of works they own, if they don’t think they are relevant or appropriate any longer? 

I'm betting they felt pressure from some outside forces to take that action though.

Maybe, or maybe not. In any event, they have the right to decide. 

https://apple.news/AdByanklnRqWRw5FkIjI1lg

It will only be a matter of time before Huck Fin and To Kill a Mockingbird join these books.  It has always been in talks about being banned.

Anyone ever see the latest rendition on Broadway?  I really wanted to go see it but the world stopped and didn't have the chance.  I was very curious if they omitted the N word during it?

Those books have been banned by different organizations somewhere in the neighborhood of as far back as I can remember. And no one got hurt.

tempo_n_groove

dankind said:

tempo_n_groove said:

oftenreading said:

The Juggler said:

oftenreading said:

One big thing that is being missed here is that the decision was made by the organization that promotes and protects Geisel‘s estate, not an outside body. Is it really “cancelling” if the artists themselves or their estate makes the decision to withdraw works or cease publication? Why shouldn’t people be allowed to cease production or publication of works they own, if they don’t think they are relevant or appropriate any longer? 

I'm betting they felt pressure from some outside forces to take that action though.

Maybe, or maybe not. In any event, they have the right to decide. 

https://apple.news/AdByanklnRqWRw5FkIjI1lg

It will only be a matter of time before Huck Fin and To Kill a Mockingbird join these books.  It has always been in talks about being banned.

Anyone ever see the latest rendition on Broadway?  I really wanted to go see it but the world stopped and didn't have the chance.  I was very curious if they omitted the N word during it?

Those books have been banned by different organizations somewhere in the neighborhood of as far back as I can remember. And no one got hurt.

Full monte ban though and not just a partial.

mace1229

tempo_n_groove said:

oftenreading said:

The Juggler said:

oftenreading said:

One big thing that is being missed here is that the decision was made by the organization that promotes and protects Geisel‘s estate, not an outside body. Is it really “cancelling” if the artists themselves or their estate makes the decision to withdraw works or cease publication? Why shouldn’t people be allowed to cease production or publication of works they own, if they don’t think they are relevant or appropriate any longer? 

I'm betting they felt pressure from some outside forces to take that action though.

Maybe, or maybe not. In any event, they have the right to decide. 

https://apple.news/AdByanklnRqWRw5FkIjI1lg

It will only be a matter of time before Huck Fin and To Kill a Mockingbird join these books.  It has always been in talks about being banned.

Anyone ever see the latest rendition on Broadway?  I really wanted to go see it but the world stopped and didn't have the chance.  I was very curious if they omitted the N word during it?

Huck Finn wouldn't surprise me, but why TKAM? The protagonist is exposing and fighting against racism, despite personal attacks against him and his children. Seems like a positive story to keep around. 

F Me In The Brain

Huck Finn is a turd.

dankind

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

tempo_n_groove said:

oftenreading said:

The Juggler said:

oftenreading said:

One big thing that is being missed here is that the decision was made by the organization that promotes and protects Geisel‘s estate, not an outside body. Is it really “cancelling” if the artists themselves or their estate makes the decision to withdraw works or cease publication? Why shouldn’t people be allowed to cease production or publication of works they own, if they don’t think they are relevant or appropriate any longer? 

I'm betting they felt pressure from some outside forces to take that action though.

Maybe, or maybe not. In any event, they have the right to decide. 

https://apple.news/AdByanklnRqWRw5FkIjI1lg

It will only be a matter of time before Huck Fin and To Kill a Mockingbird join these books.  It has always been in talks about being banned.

Anyone ever see the latest rendition on Broadway?  I really wanted to go see it but the world stopped and didn't have the chance.  I was very curious if they omitted the N word during it?

Those books have been banned by different organizations somewhere in the neighborhood of as far back as I can remember. And no one got hurt.

Full monte ban though and not just a partial.

I don't know what a full monte ban is. Like government intervention DPK-style shit? If so, that's boogeyman bullshit, and you're smarter than that, even if you are a No. 1 asshole.

I guess a publisher/estate could conceivably decide to stop printing these books, as is their prerogative as private businesses/stewards of the titles. Twain is public domain at this point, so it would be strictly symbolic; you and I can print and sell copies of that thing if we wanted to (pending proper licensing, etc., of course )

Personally, I could have done without Twain. I've never returned to his writing after reading works that were assigned. And he might be the only classic literary author I can say that about. No redeemable value for me. Some people think he's funny, but his brand of humor never struck a chord with me.

dankind

F Me In The Brain said:

Huck Finn is a turd.

Haha!

My very first A+ essay was titled "Fuck Finn."

F Me In The Brain

dankind said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

tempo_n_groove said:

oftenreading said:

The Juggler said:

oftenreading said:

One big thing that is being missed here is that the decision was made by the organization that promotes and protects Geisel‘s estate, not an outside body. Is it really “cancelling” if the artists themselves or their estate makes the decision to withdraw works or cease publication? Why shouldn’t people be allowed to cease production or publication of works they own, if they don’t think they are relevant or appropriate any longer? 

I'm betting they felt pressure from some outside forces to take that action though.

Maybe, or maybe not. In any event, they have the right to decide. 

https://apple.news/AdByanklnRqWRw5FkIjI1lg

It will only be a matter of time before Huck Fin and To Kill a Mockingbird join these books.  It has always been in talks about being banned.

Anyone ever see the latest rendition on Broadway?  I really wanted to go see it but the world stopped and didn't have the chance.  I was very curious if they omitted the N word during it?

Those books have been banned by different organizations somewhere in the neighborhood of as far back as I can remember. And no one got hurt.

Full monte ban though and not just a partial.

I don't know what a full monte ban is. Like government intervention DPK-style shit? If so, that's boogeyman bullshit, and you're smarter than that, even if you are a No. 1 asshole.

I guess a publisher/estate could conceivably decide to stop printing these books, as is their prerogative as private businesses/stewards of the titles. Twain is public domain at this point, so it would be strictly symbolic; you and I can print and sell copies of that thing if we wanted to (pending proper licensing, etc., of course )

Personally, I could have done without Twain. I've never returned to his writing after reading works that were assigned. And he might be the only classic literary author I can say that about. No redeemable value for me. Some people think he's funny, but his brand of humor never struck a chord with me.

As the #2 asshole, I can say that I laugh at a lot of Twain's quotes and find him to be somewhat interesting.  The back part of Huck Finn is totally dumb and shitty.  Should have ended the book much earlier.

tempo_n_groove

dankind said:

tempo_n_groove said:

dankind said:

tempo_n_groove said:

oftenreading said:

The Juggler said:

oftenreading said:

One big thing that is being missed here is that the decision was made by the organization that promotes and protects Geisel‘s estate, not an outside body. Is it really “cancelling” if the artists themselves or their estate makes the decision to withdraw works or cease publication? Why shouldn’t people be allowed to cease production or publication of works they own, if they don’t think they are relevant or appropriate any longer? 

I'm betting they felt pressure from some outside forces to take that action though.

Maybe, or maybe not. In any event, they have the right to decide. 

https://apple.news/AdByanklnRqWRw5FkIjI1lg

It will only be a matter of time before Huck Fin and To Kill a Mockingbird join these books.  It has always been in talks about being banned.

Anyone ever see the latest rendition on Broadway?  I really wanted to go see it but the world stopped and didn't have the chance.  I was very curious if they omitted the N word during it?

Those books have been banned by different organizations somewhere in the neighborhood of as far back as I can remember. And no one got hurt.

Full monte ban though and not just a partial.

I don't know what a full monte ban is. Like government intervention DPK-style shit? If so, that's boogeyman bullshit, and you're smarter than that, even if you are a No. 1 asshole.

I guess a publisher/estate could conceivably decide to stop printing these books, as is their prerogative as private businesses/stewards of the titles. Twain is public domain at this point, so it would be strictly symbolic; you and I can print and sell copies of that thing if we wanted to (pending proper licensing, etc., of course )

Personally, I could have done without Twain. I've never returned to his writing after reading works that were assigned. And he might be the only classic literary author I can say that about. No redeemable value for me. Some people think he's funny, but his brand of humor never struck a chord with me.

I could see a "market manipulation" if you will.  A group of people get together and say "what else can we make a fuss about" just to see if they can do it.

This is happening with a 1991 Don Zimmer baseball card.  It's worth 10 cents but market manipulation drove it up to $20...  With the power of influencing and social media every thing is open for reinterpretation.

I used those two works because they are easy targets and just getting a convo started asshole #2.  

hedonist

Merkin Baller said:

mace1229 said:

Merkin Baller said:

hedonist said:

The right, the left, the middle, oh my!

Erasing something doesn’t make it go *poof*. Apply common sense and compassion, and fuck everyone else - the sensitive, the overly sensitive, the numb. Harsh? Perhaps...

Also, I wonder if those books could be used as a learning tool rather than pulling them altogether. Explain to the younger ones about stereotypes, outdated schools of thought and action, etc. 

I don’t disagree, but not publishing 6 books moving forward doesn’t equate to pulling or canceling something, at least not IMO. Last I checked no one was banning Dr Seuss books. & the Mr Potato Head outcry was absurd... the existence of a gender neutral toy shouldn’t threaten anyone’s way of life. 

I agree the mob mentality in our society sucks, and I definitely don’t deny its existence. I couldn’t care less about the bachelor, but I think it’s dumb for that guy to lose his job over some boneheaded statements. 

I just don’t think “cancel culture” is the problem that yes, The Right is making it out to be, at least not compared to some of the other issues currently plaguing our nation.

Regarding your last comment, it’s already done that for me... this morning alone I read up a bit Dr Seuss’s history of political cartoons, and it’s an interesting one. I implore all to do some research on it. 

I don’t agree w/ censorship, but OTOH, it’s not unreasonable to look at some art & decide it isn’t really relevant for modern day (if not outright offensive & racist).

I don't think the Mr Potato head thing is going to threaten my way of life. But I find it pointless and kind of stupid. They clearly have gender stereotypes to dress them up as. Lipstick lips or a mustache for example. So why dress them as gender stereotypes and not use gender roles like Mr and Mrs? Who's next, Pacman? It doesn't bother or affect me, I haven't said anything to anyone about it. But since it was brought up, I'll point out I think it is stupid. And what is the point, unless they are going with complete gender neutral features for eyes, lips, and everything else? Which would make Potato Head extremely boring and probably go out of business after all these years. Unless they do away with all that and make it a boring toy, to me its like claiming Barbie is gender neutral, or non-binary, but continue to keep her features the same. 

Except they’re not discontinuing Mr or Mrs Potato Head. You can still get your gender specific potato to dress up (can’t believe I typed that). This backlash is over a third, gender neutral option being made available... do people really care that much?

Me neither

Never read Finn, though was assigned to in fifth or sixth grade. 

tbergs

...