#46 President Joe Biden

mookieblalock

In the aftermath of Hurricane Helene, former President Donald Trump has blasted the Biden administration for its handling of the disaster — going so far as to accuse Democratic leaders of ignoring the needs of Republican storm victims.

But a review of Trump’s record by POLITICO’s E&E News and interviews with two former Trump White House officials show that the former president was flagrantly partisan at times in response to disasters and on at least three occasions hesitated to give disaster aid to areas he considered politically hostile or ordered special treatment for pro-Trump states.

Mark Harvey, who was Trump’s senior director for resilience policy on the National Security Council staff, told E&E News on Wednesday that Trump initially refused to approve disaster aid for California after deadly wildfires in 2018 because of the state’s Democratic leanings.

But Harvey said Trump changed his mind after Harvey pulled voting results to show him that heavily damaged Orange County, California, had more Trump supporters than the entire state of Iowa.

“We went as far as looking up how many votes he got in those impacted areas … to show him these are people who voted for you,” said Harvey, who recently endorsed Vice President Kamala Harris alongside more than 100 other Republican former national security officials.

bootlegger10

Biden could shoot someone on 5th avenue and the left on here would justify it.  

Exaggerated?  Yes.  But does look a little spineless that the left on this board justify anything Biden does.  Two days ago you all would have agreed that the Dems are different because they wouldn’t even pardon their own.  

Gern Blansten

bootlegger10 said:

Biden could shoot someone on 5th avenue and the left on here would justify it.  

Exaggerated?  Yes.  But does look a little spineless that the left on this board justify anything Biden does.  Two days ago you all would have agreed that the Dems are different because they wouldn’t even pardon their own.  

LOL.. Exaggerated 

cincybearcat

Gern Blansten said:

I know calling it a lie is politically convenient...Romney even made a comment saying that he lied and it was disgraceful or something but give me a break. Circumstances changed.

And, like I mentioned before, even Gowdy and Graham said that the charges wouldn't have happened if it weren't Biden's son.

He lied. Do you really not know what a lie is? He said he wouldn’t do something….then he did it. 

Gern Blansten

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I know calling it a lie is politically convenient...Romney even made a comment saying that he lied and it was disgraceful or something but give me a break. Circumstances changed.

And, like I mentioned before, even Gowdy and Graham said that the charges wouldn't have happened if it weren't Biden's son.

He lied. Do you really not know what a lie is? He said he wouldn’t do something….then he did it. 

So you know for a fact that he intended to pardon at the point he was asked? Can I borrow your crystal ball? 

cincybearcat

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I know calling it a lie is politically convenient...Romney even made a comment saying that he lied and it was disgraceful or something but give me a break. Circumstances changed.

And, like I mentioned before, even Gowdy and Graham said that the charges wouldn't have happened if it weren't Biden's son.

He lied. Do you really not know what a lie is? He said he wouldn’t do something….then he did it. 

So you know for a fact that he intended to pardon at the point he was asked? Can I borrow your crystal ball? 

What are you trying to say? 

tbergs

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I know calling it a lie is politically convenient...Romney even made a comment saying that he lied and it was disgraceful or something but give me a break. Circumstances changed.

And, like I mentioned before, even Gowdy and Graham said that the charges wouldn't have happened if it weren't Biden's son.

He lied. Do you really not know what a lie is? He said he wouldn’t do something….then he did it. 

So you know for a fact that he intended to pardon at the point he was asked? Can I borrow your crystal ball? 

It doesn't matter what he was thinking internally, he lied by doing something he said he wouldn't do. The mental gymnastics he did later to take the action he said he wouldn't still makes it a lie based on his repeated public statements to the contrary. I'm not sure why you're trying to construct some new meaning of lying. Maybe his initial intent wasn't to lie, but he did the thing he said he wouldn't so it became a lie. People trying to project on his fear of what the incoming Trump admin will do are reaching in my opinion.

Let's go back to when he was still the candidate,  if he won relection, do you really think he wouldn't pardon his son in a 2nd term with nothing left to worry about? He just didn't think he'd have to go back on his word so quickly. I'd argue that at this point, he always knew he would do it unless Harris won and could do it for him.

Halifax2TheMax

bootlegger10 said:

Biden could shoot someone on 5th avenue and the left on here would justify it.  

Exaggerated?  Yes.  But does look a little spineless that the left on this board justify anything Biden does.  Two days ago you all would have agreed that the Dems are different because they wouldn’t even pardon their own.  

I said I looked forward to Brandon pardoning Hunter long ago. Try to keep up.

brianlux

I don't understand what some of you mean by "lie".  To me, if you say something knowing it isn't or will not be true, that is a lie.  And if you say something you believe you will stand by, but later realize that what you planned on doing was a bad choice OR circumstances have changed OR things didn't turn out as you had expected, AND you do something different, is that a lie?  I don't think so.  I'd say it is a change of mind. 

And this:  who here will cast the first stone? 

So much anger.  Anger and hatred.  Lovely.

And I mean me too, though I'm not so much angry lately.  What good does arguing do?  Nothing.  What good endless anger?  Nothing.  There has to be a better way to spend our time and energy.  Like actually doing something to help make positive change happen instead of just being pissed off and arguing.

I'm open to ideas!

HughFreakingDillon

Lie implies intent to mislead/knowing what you are saying is untrue at the time you said it. 

What Biden is claiming is that he reneged. 

We’ll never know which is true, but I know what I would have done. 

tbergs

brianlux said:

I don't understand what some of you mean by "lie".  To me, if you say something knowing it isn't or will not be true, that is a lie.  And if you say something you believe you will stand by, but later realize that what you planned on doing was a bad choice OR circumstances have changed OR things didn't turn out as you had expected, AND you do something different, is that a lie?  I don't think so.  I'd say it is a change of mind. 

And this:  who here will cast the first stone? 

So much anger.  Anger and hatred.  Lovely.

And I mean me too, though I'm not so much angry lately.  What good does arguing do?  Nothing.  What good endless anger?  Nothing.  There has to be a better way to spend our time and energy.  Like actually doing something to help make positive change happen instead of just being pissed off and arguing.

I'm open to ideas!

Brian, I get what you're saying, but I think that way of looking at it provides way too much benefit of the doubt in instances that simply seem implausible. Are any of us willing to give this same benefit to Trump for anything he says and later does/doesn't do? Most likely not and I don't see anyone trying to provide this argument for him about anything.

Trump is an easy target in this instance, so let's dig a little deeper and consider what the most recent SCOTUS appointees (Barrett, Kavanaugh and Gorsuch) said during their confirmation hearings about abortion. Many of them were asked point blank if they believe Roe v. Wade was stare decisis and they repeatedly stated they believed it was, but yet less than 5 years later a new case came along and they overturned what they said they wouldn't. Again, I know many here have said they lied in the hearing, but isn't it then also fair for them to say they changed their mind based on new circumstances? I would call bullshit because their personal beliefs made it pretty clear which side they favored and I would say the same thing about the Biden pardon.

Lerxst1992

tbergs said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I know calling it a lie is politically convenient...Romney even made a comment saying that he lied and it was disgraceful or something but give me a break. Circumstances changed.

And, like I mentioned before, even Gowdy and Graham said that the charges wouldn't have happened if it weren't Biden's son.

He lied. Do you really not know what a lie is? He said he wouldn’t do something….then he did it. 

So you know for a fact that he intended to pardon at the point he was asked? Can I borrow your crystal ball? 

It doesn't matter what he was thinking internally, he lied by doing something he said he wouldn't do. The mental gymnastics he did later to take the action he said he wouldn't still makes it a lie based on his repeated public statements to the contrary. I'm not sure why you're trying to construct some new meaning of lying. Maybe his initial intent wasn't to lie, but he did the thing he said he wouldn't so it became a lie. People trying to project on his fear of what the incoming Trump admin will do are reaching in my opinion.

Let's go back to when he was still the candidate,  if he won relection, do you really think he wouldn't pardon his son in a 2nd term with nothing left to worry about? He just didn't think he'd have to go back on his word so quickly. I'd argue that at this point, he always knew he would do it unless Harris won and could do it for him.

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I know calling it a lie is politically convenient...Romney even made a comment saying that he lied and it was disgraceful or something but give me a break. Circumstances changed.

And, like I mentioned before, even Gowdy and Graham said that the charges wouldn't have happened if it weren't Biden's son.

He lied. Do you really not know what a lie is? He said he wouldn’t do something….then he did it. 

He changed his mind due to the increasingly unhinged comments by the opposition leader over the last three months, specifically related to going after the enemy within.

If you don't believe you would not make the same exact change of mind in this situation, imo you are not being honest with yerselves.


Edit, reading the comparison to USSC and abortion, if you have a specific example of a significant change in abortions, there could be a comparable there. But there is no such change. Biden is reacting specifically to the unhinged comments where 47 specifically threatened him and his family. Saying, "well they might see it differently under a new case" is not being specific. 

brianlux

tbergs said:

brianlux said:

I don't understand what some of you mean by "lie".  To me, if you say something knowing it isn't or will not be true, that is a lie.  And if you say something you believe you will stand by, but later realize that what you planned on doing was a bad choice OR circumstances have changed OR things didn't turn out as you had expected, AND you do something different, is that a lie?  I don't think so.  I'd say it is a change of mind. 

And this:  who here will cast the first stone? 

So much anger.  Anger and hatred.  Lovely.

And I mean me too, though I'm not so much angry lately.  What good does arguing do?  Nothing.  What good endless anger?  Nothing.  There has to be a better way to spend our time and energy.  Like actually doing something to help make positive change happen instead of just being pissed off and arguing.

I'm open to ideas!

Brian, I get what you're saying, but I think that way of looking at it provides way too much benefit of the doubt in instances that simply seem implausible. Are any of us willing to give this same benefit to Trump for anything he says and later does/doesn't do? Most likely not and I don't see anyone trying to provide this argument for him about anything.

Trump is an easy target in this instance, so let's dig a little deeper and consider what the most recent SCOTUS appointees (Barrett, Kavanaugh and Gorsuch) said during their confirmation hearings about abortion. Many of them were asked point blank if they believe Roe v. Wade was stare decisis and they repeatedly stated they believed it was, but yet less than 5 years later a new case came along and they overturned what they said they wouldn't. Again, I know many here have said they lied in the hearing, but isn't it then also fair for them to say they changed their mind based on new circumstances? I would call bullshit because their personal beliefs made it pretty clear which side they favored and I would say the same thing about the Biden pardon.

Sorry t, but no, I would not give the same benefit to D.T. because he is a know chronic liar.  Biden is not.  It's just  that simple.

josevolution

Booo booo whooo he lied so fucking what the old man is done to be gone from public life did he pardon a harden criminal or an insurrectionist! Go cry somewhere else 

mace1229

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

OK, I'm sorry my friends (and possible foes), but I am compelled to site this quote from Heather's letter.  It's something I think bears considering here on AMT:

"And yet, much of American media today has been consumed not with the story that Trump has appointed a deeply problematic candidate to run what could be considered the nation’s most important department, overseeing about 3 million personnel and managing a budget of more than $800 billion, or with the reality that Biden’s distrust of our legal system under Trump is a profound warning for all of us.

Instead, they have focused on President Biden’s pardon of his son...."

Hmmm...

Interesting deflection.  So Heather is just like all the others huh?  

Deflection?  No.  I don't know what you mean about Heather being just like the others.

I think the point made was clear.  Just saying.  But not going to argue it.  Moving on.

Not you, Heather is deflecting.  We are always being told that the media or we as a population are focused on the wrong thing when we should be focused on something else.  People can focus on more than 1 issue at a time and it is just Heather's opinion, not fact.  It gets old the way people try to minimize one bad thing by saying "you should be looking at this other shiny bad thing over here instead"...thus meaning to ignore the first bad thing.  It's tiresome.

Thanks for clarifying.

I don't think Heather was saying "look at this, not that".  I think it was more like, "the Biden pardon issues is a thing, but the Trump appointees are WAY more important, so let's keep our priorities straight."  Also, I really don't think Heather is telling you or me what to do.  She's not into being a dictator, lol.

Fair enough, I read it as being scolded for carrying about a president lying about not and then going ahead and pardoning his SON.  I found that annoying, and I find the reality of it to be awful.

I am also pissed off and concerned about many of trump's picks for his cabinet....starting with Secretary of Defense (since Gaetz dropped which was my #1 concern at the time)

Was it a lie? is it not possible that, given the situation at the time, he was telling the truth and that only after knowing that trump won and a total fucknut would be in charge of the DOJ that he changed his mind?

So was he not aware that Trump was running for office back then?  Polls always showed a close race. What circumstances have changed?

mickeyrat

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I know calling it a lie is politically convenient...Romney even made a comment saying that he lied and it was disgraceful or something but give me a break. Circumstances changed.

And, like I mentioned before, even Gowdy and Graham said that the charges wouldn't have happened if it weren't Biden's son.

He lied. Do you really not know what a lie is? He said he wouldn’t do something….then he did it. 

So you know for a fact that he intended to pardon at the point he was asked? Can I borrow your crystal ball? 

What are you trying to say? 

DO YOU EVER HAVE OCCASION TO CHANGE YOUR MIND?

mickeyrat

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I know calling it a lie is politically convenient...Romney even made a comment saying that he lied and it was disgraceful or something but give me a break. Circumstances changed.

And, like I mentioned before, even Gowdy and Graham said that the charges wouldn't have happened if it weren't Biden's son.

He lied. Do you really not know what a lie is? He said he wouldn’t do something….then he did it. 

So you know for a fact that he intended to pardon at the point he was asked? Can I borrow your crystal ball? 

What are you trying to say? 

Thought of this yestetday and wasnt going to post it.

changed my mind.

show me on the doll where hunter touched you.

Halifax2TheMax

mickeyrat said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I know calling it a lie is politically convenient...Romney even made a comment saying that he lied and it was disgraceful or something but give me a break. Circumstances changed.

And, like I mentioned before, even Gowdy and Graham said that the charges wouldn't have happened if it weren't Biden's son.

He lied. Do you really not know what a lie is? He said he wouldn’t do something….then he did it. 

So you know for a fact that he intended to pardon at the point he was asked? Can I borrow your crystal ball? 

What are you trying to say? 

Thought of this yestetday and wasnt going to post it.

changed my mind.

show me on the doll where hunter touched you.

Brandon sniffed his hair.

tbergs

mickeyrat said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I know calling it a lie is politically convenient...Romney even made a comment saying that he lied and it was disgraceful or something but give me a break. Circumstances changed.

And, like I mentioned before, even Gowdy and Graham said that the charges wouldn't have happened if it weren't Biden's son.

He lied. Do you really not know what a lie is? He said he wouldn’t do something….then he did it. 

So you know for a fact that he intended to pardon at the point he was asked? Can I borrow your crystal ball? 

What are you trying to say? 

DO YOU EVER HAVE OCCASION TO CHANGE YOUR MIND?

Why are you jumping through hoops on this issue? It's weird to see all of the defense for Biden on this. It really isn't a big deal because I think any rational person expected him to pardon his son at some point. He lied. It's fine, Trump maliciously lies all the time and no one cares. Biden lied about his intentions because he thought it was political suicide at the time and was right to assume that it would have been. This is actually more of a normal political lie and one that could just die if people didn't keep trying to justify it.

tbergs

josevolution said:

Booo booo whooo he lied so fucking what the old man is done to be gone from public life did he pardon a harden criminal or an insurrectionist! Go cry somewhere else 

None of us are crying about it. I'm just annoyed that people keep trying to say it wasn't a lie. You're right, who cares, call it what it is and move on. The people defending it as not a lie seem to need this advice more than anyone else.

tbergs

brianlux said:

tbergs said:

brianlux said:

I don't understand what some of you mean by "lie".  To me, if you say something knowing it isn't or will not be true, that is a lie.  And if you say something you believe you will stand by, but later realize that what you planned on doing was a bad choice OR circumstances have changed OR things didn't turn out as you had expected, AND you do something different, is that a lie?  I don't think so.  I'd say it is a change of mind. 

And this:  who here will cast the first stone? 

So much anger.  Anger and hatred.  Lovely.

And I mean me too, though I'm not so much angry lately.  What good does arguing do?  Nothing.  What good endless anger?  Nothing.  There has to be a better way to spend our time and energy.  Like actually doing something to help make positive change happen instead of just being pissed off and arguing.

I'm open to ideas!

Brian, I get what you're saying, but I think that way of looking at it provides way too much benefit of the doubt in instances that simply seem implausible. Are any of us willing to give this same benefit to Trump for anything he says and later does/doesn't do? Most likely not and I don't see anyone trying to provide this argument for him about anything.

Trump is an easy target in this instance, so let's dig a little deeper and consider what the most recent SCOTUS appointees (Barrett, Kavanaugh and Gorsuch) said during their confirmation hearings about abortion. Many of them were asked point blank if they believe Roe v. Wade was stare decisis and they repeatedly stated they believed it was, but yet less than 5 years later a new case came along and they overturned what they said they wouldn't. Again, I know many here have said they lied in the hearing, but isn't it then also fair for them to say they changed their mind based on new circumstances? I would call bullshit because their personal beliefs made it pretty clear which side they favored and I would say the same thing about the Biden pardon.

Sorry t, but no, I would not give the same benefit to D.T. because he is a know chronic liar.  Biden is not.  It's just  that simple.

Yeah, Trump lies all the time and we know it because he lies with impunity. Biden is usually more tactful in his lies, more politician like I would say. It's just so weird that we've come to a point where republicans won't call out blatant Trump lies and Dems won't call out clear Biden lies. Both parties should be able to call out all lies, but instead they both pretend only their opponent lies.

tbergs

Lerxst1992 said:

tbergs said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I know calling it a lie is politically convenient...Romney even made a comment saying that he lied and it was disgraceful or something but give me a break. Circumstances changed.

And, like I mentioned before, even Gowdy and Graham said that the charges wouldn't have happened if it weren't Biden's son.

He lied. Do you really not know what a lie is? He said he wouldn’t do something….then he did it. 

So you know for a fact that he intended to pardon at the point he was asked? Can I borrow your crystal ball? 

It doesn't matter what he was thinking internally, he lied by doing something he said he wouldn't do. The mental gymnastics he did later to take the action he said he wouldn't still makes it a lie based on his repeated public statements to the contrary. I'm not sure why you're trying to construct some new meaning of lying. Maybe his initial intent wasn't to lie, but he did the thing he said he wouldn't so it became a lie. People trying to project on his fear of what the incoming Trump admin will do are reaching in my opinion.

Let's go back to when he was still the candidate,  if he won relection, do you really think he wouldn't pardon his son in a 2nd term with nothing left to worry about? He just didn't think he'd have to go back on his word so quickly. I'd argue that at this point, he always knew he would do it unless Harris won and could do it for him.

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I know calling it a lie is politically convenient...Romney even made a comment saying that he lied and it was disgraceful or something but give me a break. Circumstances changed.

And, like I mentioned before, even Gowdy and Graham said that the charges wouldn't have happened if it weren't Biden's son.

He lied. Do you really not know what a lie is? He said he wouldn’t do something….then he did it. 

He changed his mind due to the increasingly unhinged comments by the opposition leader over the last three months, specifically related to going after the enemy within.

If you don't believe you would not make the same exact change of mind in this situation, imo you are not being honest with yerselves.


Edit, reading the comparison to USSC and abortion, if you have a specific example of a significant change in abortions, there could be a comparable there. But there is no such change. Biden is reacting specifically to the unhinged comments where 47 specifically threatened him and his family. Saying, "well they might see it differently under a new case" is not being specific. 

I think you're trying really hard to make something true that isn't. Biden, and pretty much all dems, have been spouting about Trump as a threat to democracy for years with it peaking the last 6 months to the point of comparisons to being fascist or nazi-esque. You're trying to convince me that even though Biden and his party were already saying stuff like that about Trump that he still wasn't sure he would pardon Hunter? I think what he really should have said is that he would only pardon Hunter if Trump was elected because of the threat he poses to unbiased justice and respect for the rule of law. I don't know though, maybe he didn't want to put himself in another political pickle by even saying that, but it's also been pretty clear for a long time what a 2nd Trump presidency would look like.

As for the abortion comparison, you don't agree that something changed, but others do, including the justices. I don't agree with them or their reasons because the support of their reasons is lacking. Same as it is for Biden. So is it only a "changed mind" instead of a lie if you agree with the reasons provided? I think we're wading in to some muddy waters if that's the standard. This isn't like me telling my wife I am coming straight home, but then I stop for gas because I didn't realize my tank was low. I think certain situations can be perceived in such a way that allow reasonable people to know when it's an intentionally misleading statement and when it truly is an unknown.

Gern Blansten

tbergs said:

josevolution said:

Booo booo whooo he lied so fucking what the old man is done to be gone from public life did he pardon a harden criminal or an insurrectionist! Go cry somewhere else 

None of us are crying about it. I'm just annoyed that people keep trying to say it wasn't a lie. You're right, who cares, call it what it is and move on. The people defending it as not a lie seem to need this advice more than anyone else.

I don't know if it was a lie or not. In truth, no one does. We don't know if it was a lie when Biden said it.

I don't understand why that is so hard to understand.

mace1229

mickeyrat said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I know calling it a lie is politically convenient...Romney even made a comment saying that he lied and it was disgraceful or something but give me a break. Circumstances changed.

And, like I mentioned before, even Gowdy and Graham said that the charges wouldn't have happened if it weren't Biden's son.

He lied. Do you really not know what a lie is? He said he wouldn’t do something….then he did it. 

So you know for a fact that he intended to pardon at the point he was asked? Can I borrow your crystal ball? 

What are you trying to say? 

Thought of this yestetday and wasnt going to post it.

changed my mind.

show me on the doll where hunter touched you.

I know a few strippers that can answer that question.

mace1229

tbergs said:

mickeyrat said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I know calling it a lie is politically convenient...Romney even made a comment saying that he lied and it was disgraceful or something but give me a break. Circumstances changed.

And, like I mentioned before, even Gowdy and Graham said that the charges wouldn't have happened if it weren't Biden's son.

He lied. Do you really not know what a lie is? He said he wouldn’t do something….then he did it. 

So you know for a fact that he intended to pardon at the point he was asked? Can I borrow your crystal ball? 

What are you trying to say? 

DO YOU EVER HAVE OCCASION TO CHANGE YOUR MIND?

Why are you jumping through hoops on this issue? It's weird to see all of the defense for Biden on this. It really isn't a big deal because I think any rational person expected him to pardon his son at some point. He lied. It's fine, Trump maliciously lies all the time and no one cares. Biden lied about his intentions because he thought it was political suicide at the time and was right to assume that it would have been. This is actually more of a normal political lie and one that could just die if people didn't keep trying to justify it.

I agree with this with the exception of the sweeping pardon. You are right, most of us probably expected him to do it ( I know I did) and we understand it would be giving away the election if he advertised it at the time. Had he just pardoned him for what he had been charged and found guilty of that would have been one thing. Its the blanket any and all charges for 11 years, even ones not known of yet, that warrants scrutiny. 

Gern Blansten

mace1229 said:

tbergs said:

mickeyrat said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I know calling it a lie is politically convenient...Romney even made a comment saying that he lied and it was disgraceful or something but give me a break. Circumstances changed.

And, like I mentioned before, even Gowdy and Graham said that the charges wouldn't have happened if it weren't Biden's son.

He lied. Do you really not know what a lie is? He said he wouldn’t do something….then he did it. 

So you know for a fact that he intended to pardon at the point he was asked? Can I borrow your crystal ball? 

What are you trying to say? 

DO YOU EVER HAVE OCCASION TO CHANGE YOUR MIND?

Why are you jumping through hoops on this issue? It's weird to see all of the defense for Biden on this. It really isn't a big deal because I think any rational person expected him to pardon his son at some point. He lied. It's fine, Trump maliciously lies all the time and no one cares. Biden lied about his intentions because he thought it was political suicide at the time and was right to assume that it would have been. This is actually more of a normal political lie and one that could just die if people didn't keep trying to justify it.

I agree with this with the exception of the sweeping pardon. You are right, most of us probably expected him to do it ( I know I did) and we understand it would be giving away the election if he advertised it at the time. Had he just pardoned him for what he had been charged and found guilty of that would have been one thing. Its the blanket any and all charges for 11 years, even ones not known of yet, that warrants scrutiny. 

My opinion is that there would have been no pardon if Harris had won. I do think that the Biden's were willing to accept the charges because they knew there would likely not be any prison time.

It's all the revenge bullshit and trump's unfortunate victory that led to the pardon.

mace1229

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

tbergs said:

mickeyrat said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I know calling it a lie is politically convenient...Romney even made a comment saying that he lied and it was disgraceful or something but give me a break. Circumstances changed.

And, like I mentioned before, even Gowdy and Graham said that the charges wouldn't have happened if it weren't Biden's son.

He lied. Do you really not know what a lie is? He said he wouldn’t do something….then he did it. 

So you know for a fact that he intended to pardon at the point he was asked? Can I borrow your crystal ball? 

What are you trying to say? 

DO YOU EVER HAVE OCCASION TO CHANGE YOUR MIND?

Why are you jumping through hoops on this issue? It's weird to see all of the defense for Biden on this. It really isn't a big deal because I think any rational person expected him to pardon his son at some point. He lied. It's fine, Trump maliciously lies all the time and no one cares. Biden lied about his intentions because he thought it was political suicide at the time and was right to assume that it would have been. This is actually more of a normal political lie and one that could just die if people didn't keep trying to justify it.

I agree with this with the exception of the sweeping pardon. You are right, most of us probably expected him to do it ( I know I did) and we understand it would be giving away the election if he advertised it at the time. Had he just pardoned him for what he had been charged and found guilty of that would have been one thing. Its the blanket any and all charges for 11 years, even ones not known of yet, that warrants scrutiny. 

My opinion is that there would have been no pardon if Harris had won. I do think that the Biden's were willing to accept the charges because they knew there would likely not be any prison time.

It's all the revenge bullshit and trump's unfortunate victory that led to the pardon.

Maybe. But the weird part is, why not wait until sentencing this month? Isn't the judge and everyone else in charge of the process the same no matter who won?
That's the weirdest part to me, why not wait? He probably would have just gotten a fine and probation anyway, I don't see Hunter serving prison time. And if he was sentenced to prison, then pardon him citing it was an unjust sentence. If not, let him pay the fine and serve probation and then there's no backlash. He had time to wait and see what the sentence was. 

eddiec

It's just crazy that there's agreement that Joe would have been committing political suicide if he said he was going to pardon his son over tax evasion, but Trump openly says he'll pardon the J6ers and he gets elected.

And people say both sides are the same? It's bizarro world.

Gern Blansten

eddiec said:

It's just crazy that there's agreement that Joe would have been committing political suicide if he said he was going to pardon his son over tax evasion, but Trump openly says he'll pardon the J6ers and he gets elected.

And people say both sides are the same? It's bizarro world.

yeah we're in an alternate reality for at least the next four years...Idiocracy

Gern Blansten

mace1229 said:

Gern Blansten said:

mace1229 said:

tbergs said:

mickeyrat said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

cincybearcat said:

Gern Blansten said:

I know calling it a lie is politically convenient...Romney even made a comment saying that he lied and it was disgraceful or something but give me a break. Circumstances changed.

And, like I mentioned before, even Gowdy and Graham said that the charges wouldn't have happened if it weren't Biden's son.

He lied. Do you really not know what a lie is? He said he wouldn’t do something….then he did it. 

So you know for a fact that he intended to pardon at the point he was asked? Can I borrow your crystal ball? 

What are you trying to say? 

DO YOU EVER HAVE OCCASION TO CHANGE YOUR MIND?

Why are you jumping through hoops on this issue? It's weird to see all of the defense for Biden on this. It really isn't a big deal because I think any rational person expected him to pardon his son at some point. He lied. It's fine, Trump maliciously lies all the time and no one cares. Biden lied about his intentions because he thought it was political suicide at the time and was right to assume that it would have been. This is actually more of a normal political lie and one that could just die if people didn't keep trying to justify it.

I agree with this with the exception of the sweeping pardon. You are right, most of us probably expected him to do it ( I know I did) and we understand it would be giving away the election if he advertised it at the time. Had he just pardoned him for what he had been charged and found guilty of that would have been one thing. Its the blanket any and all charges for 11 years, even ones not known of yet, that warrants scrutiny. 

My opinion is that there would have been no pardon if Harris had won. I do think that the Biden's were willing to accept the charges because they knew there would likely not be any prison time.

It's all the revenge bullshit and trump's unfortunate victory that led to the pardon.

Maybe. But the weird part is, why not wait until sentencing this month? Isn't the judge and everyone else in charge of the process the same no matter who won?
That's the weirdest part to me, why not wait? He probably would have just gotten a fine and probation anyway, I don't see Hunter serving prison time. And if he was sentenced to prison, then pardon him citing it was an unjust sentence. If not, let him pay the fine and serve probation and then there's no backlash. He had time to wait and see what the sentence was. 

My only guess would be the pardon came now just in case there was harsh prison time. Although I'm not sure if the reaction would be different if they had waited. Pardoning a fine looks worse than pardoning prison time in my opinion.