#46 President Joe Biden

cincybearcat

FiveBelow said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

Dumb questions from a guy (me) who has worked with kids, help raise nephew who were past infancy, but never had kids of my own:  Why is there so much widespread need for baby formula?  Is breast feeding that uncommon today?

I don't have all the answers but I know there are plenty of factors that make formula necessary or almost necessary.  Not all mothers produce enough milk.  Plus, jobs and the lack of resources make pumping impractical to impossible.

Breastfeeding isn't just a very simply process in many cases.

What leads me to wonder about this- and I'm not expert obviously, so I don't know how true this is- but I have heard that kids who are breastfeed build stronger immune systems and are healthier overall.  If this is true, I would think there would be more of a push to encourage breastfeeding rather than push formula. 

My wife was a milk factory for our first child, but dried up after only a few months with our second. She experienced lots of guilt because of this as she felt formula was not an even substitute for her milk. While most of us are currently unaffected by this shortage, I imagine it is a major source of concern for those who rely on it. It will remain a focal point until a solution is in place, whether the blame is warranted or not. The odd thing is our first catches everything and our second rarely gets sick. 

Did they both go to daycare?

brianlux

FiveBelow said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

Dumb questions from a guy (me) who has worked with kids, help raise nephew who were past infancy, but never had kids of my own:  Why is there so much widespread need for baby formula?  Is breast feeding that uncommon today?

I don't have all the answers but I know there are plenty of factors that make formula necessary or almost necessary.  Not all mothers produce enough milk.  Plus, jobs and the lack of resources make pumping impractical to impossible.

Breastfeeding isn't just a very simply process in many cases.

What leads me to wonder about this- and I'm not expert obviously, so I don't know how true this is- but I have heard that kids who are breastfeed build stronger immune systems and are healthier overall.  If this is true, I would think there would be more of a push to encourage breastfeeding rather than push formula. 

My wife was a milk factory for our first child, but dried up after only a few months with our second. She experienced lots of guilt because of this as she felt formula was not an even substitute for her milk. While most of us are currently unaffected by this shortage, I imagine it is a major source of concern for those who rely on it. It will remain a focal point until a solution is in place, whether the blame is warranted or not. The odd thing is our first catches everything and our second rarely gets sick. 

Interesting. But I'm sorry to hear she feels guilty about something that couldn't be helped. 

FiveBelow

cincybearcat said:

FiveBelow said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

Dumb questions from a guy (me) who has worked with kids, help raise nephew who were past infancy, but never had kids of my own:  Why is there so much widespread need for baby formula?  Is breast feeding that uncommon today?

I don't have all the answers but I know there are plenty of factors that make formula necessary or almost necessary.  Not all mothers produce enough milk.  Plus, jobs and the lack of resources make pumping impractical to impossible.

Breastfeeding isn't just a very simply process in many cases.

What leads me to wonder about this- and I'm not expert obviously, so I don't know how true this is- but I have heard that kids who are breastfeed build stronger immune systems and are healthier overall.  If this is true, I would think there would be more of a push to encourage breastfeeding rather than push formula. 

My wife was a milk factory for our first child, but dried up after only a few months with our second. She experienced lots of guilt because of this as she felt formula was not an even substitute for her milk. While most of us are currently unaffected by this shortage, I imagine it is a major source of concern for those who rely on it. It will remain a focal point until a solution is in place, whether the blame is warranted or not. The odd thing is our first catches everything and our second rarely gets sick. 

Did they both go to daycare?

My wife left her job after we had our first so their experience is pretty similar. Our oldest has definitely been exposed to more since starting preschool, but brings it home and when they are both sick our youngest usually has noticeably milder symptoms or recovers quicker. 

FiveBelow

brianlux said:

FiveBelow said:

brianlux said:

cincybearcat said:

brianlux said:

Dumb questions from a guy (me) who has worked with kids, help raise nephew who were past infancy, but never had kids of my own:  Why is there so much widespread need for baby formula?  Is breast feeding that uncommon today?

I don't have all the answers but I know there are plenty of factors that make formula necessary or almost necessary.  Not all mothers produce enough milk.  Plus, jobs and the lack of resources make pumping impractical to impossible.

Breastfeeding isn't just a very simply process in many cases.

What leads me to wonder about this- and I'm not expert obviously, so I don't know how true this is- but I have heard that kids who are breastfeed build stronger immune systems and are healthier overall.  If this is true, I would think there would be more of a push to encourage breastfeeding rather than push formula. 

My wife was a milk factory for our first child, but dried up after only a few months with our second. She experienced lots of guilt because of this as she felt formula was not an even substitute for her milk. While most of us are currently unaffected by this shortage, I imagine it is a major source of concern for those who rely on it. It will remain a focal point until a solution is in place, whether the blame is warranted or not. The odd thing is our first catches everything and our second rarely gets sick. 

Interesting. But I'm sorry to hear she feels guilty about something that couldn't be helped. 

I think a lot of it is the feeling of not being able to provide the same experience for both, even if it wasn’t by choice.

cblock4life

When I had my children breastfeeding was not popular at all.  And we were given these little red pills to dry up our milk which eventually caused breast cancer.  

I feel guilty  to this day for not breastfeeding 35 yrs ago!  But, I do think that it should only matter which form ends up being the best choice for the baby. Women shouldn’t feel guilty one way or the other, especially after just performing a miracle!  

Lerxst1992

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

Lerxst1992 said:

cincybearcat said:

Was listening to Morning Joe.  And Mika made a comment I found myself thinking but also trying not to be negative just for negative sake.  She was pretty angry that Joe and white house taking a victory lap for pallets of formula to feed "9000 babies for a week"... wanting more sustained change.

Now - the work with the FDA and the plant that had the issues is where the real issue gets solved more systemically.  And providing the other facilities priority in obtaining raw materials.  That is the stuff that fixes it long-term...the flight honestly feels like a trump-like twitter win.

I understand why the formula factory was shut down....I do not understand the process after that...I do not understand how it remained shut that long.  I also do not know the true dynamics of that company or their management.  Perhaps they are extremely negligent.  But if not, this is the issue with many government regulators....it's not about working and improving, it's about punishing.  Sometimes appropriate though.

I'm glad Biden used the powers to help get the raw materials available and get the other plant in process of starting up.

This is an example of poor messaging by democrats. The point should be driven home, do we want a government that intervenes, or leave business alone and let the market decide when a company messes up with bacteria? If we want the government to be there in time of crises, then how do y’all vote against democrats?

I honestly don't know enough about the FDA case to understand if the government was a big part of the problem to big with.  I totally understand the shutdown, investigation....but damn, for how long?  What was taking so long?  Was it the company dragging feet?  The FDA? 

Probably normal gov't bureaucracy with a failure to understand the supply chain ramification.  I would bet the company was challenging some of the findings and trying to reduce the required investments.  Until the supply chain issue hit, the FDA would probably be in no hurry to compromise.  Typical gov't stuff at work.  

That was my ingoing assumption...

Abbott detected bacteria 8 times over the last two years, tough for me to pin that on govt bureaucracy. I’m coming from the perspective the GOP is looking for the govt to solve the problem. Republicans talk endlessly about no regulations and let industry take care of problems. When an industry screws up, they are quick to point the finger at democrats for not solving it quick enough.

brianlux

cblock4life said:

When I had my children breastfeeding was not popular at all.  And we were given these little red pills to dry up our milk which eventually caused breast cancer.  

I feel guilty  to this day for not breastfeeding 35 yrs ago!  But, I do think that it should only matter which form ends up being the best choice for the baby. Women shouldn’t feel guilty one way or the other, especially after just performing a miracle!  

Good points!

EdsonNascimento

Baby formula debacle - further proof we would not have had a viable vaccine available as quickly under this Administration.  

There's no way that factory should have been shut that long, especially considering they did not find 1 baby that actually got sick from the contaminant.   Yes, it need to be stopped, shut down and investigated. But, they knew back in October this was the problem it was going to cause.  Proper urgency was not given.

The same FDA process here would have made the Vaccine take its typical 4 years development time.  

You elected a lifelong bureaucrat, and that's exactly what we got.

You don't get to take a victory lap only partially solving a problem that you created by ignoring an easy to see cause.

Halifax2TheMax

EdsonNascimento said:

Baby formula debacle - further proof we would not have had a viable vaccine available as quickly under this Administration.  

There's no way that factory should have been shut that long, especially considering they did not find 1 baby that actually got sick from the contaminant.   Yes, it need to be stopped, shut down and investigated. But, they knew back in October this was the problem it was going to cause.  Proper urgency was not given.

The same FDA process here would have made the Vaccine take its typical 4 years development time.  

You elected a lifelong bureaucrat, and that's exactly what we got.

You don't get to take a victory lap only partially solving a problem that you created by ignoring an easy to see cause.

2 babies died. But fuck them, right? What’s Abbott’s profit margin on formula? Maybe they shouldn’t produce a product that can cause death and sell it to the public?

gimmesometruth27

EdsonNascimento said:

Baby formula debacle - further proof we would not have had a viable vaccine available as quickly under this Administration.  

There's no way that factory should have been shut that long, especially considering they did not find 1 baby that actually got sick from the contaminant.   Yes, it need to be stopped, shut down and investigated. But, they knew back in October this was the problem it was going to cause.  Proper urgency was not given.

The same FDA process here would have made the Vaccine take its typical 4 years development time.  

You elected a lifelong bureaucrat, and that's exactly what we got.

You don't get to take a victory lap only partially solving a problem that you created by ignoring an easy to see cause.

how can you compare baby formula, which has been a thing for years, to a vaccine for a brand new virus? apples and oranges?

i do not follow your point.

The Juggler

LOL

HughFreakingDillon

EdsonNascimento said:

Baby formula debacle - further proof we would not have had a viable vaccine available as quickly under this Administration.  

There's no way that factory should have been shut that long, especially considering they did not find 1 baby that actually got sick from the contaminant.   Yes, it need to be stopped, shut down and investigated. But, they knew back in October this was the problem it was going to cause.  Proper urgency was not given.

The same FDA process here would have made the Vaccine take its typical 4 years development time.  

You elected a lifelong bureaucrat, and that's exactly what we got.

You don't get to take a victory lap only partially solving a problem that you created by ignoring an easy to see cause.

nonsense. but also, maybe we wouldn't have as many deaths if the previous admin hadn't played it down and lied to the public about it. 

mrussel1

HughFreakingDillon said:

EdsonNascimento said:

Baby formula debacle - further proof we would not have had a viable vaccine available as quickly under this Administration.  

There's no way that factory should have been shut that long, especially considering they did not find 1 baby that actually got sick from the contaminant.   Yes, it need to be stopped, shut down and investigated. But, they knew back in October this was the problem it was going to cause.  Proper urgency was not given.

The same FDA process here would have made the Vaccine take its typical 4 years development time.  

You elected a lifelong bureaucrat, and that's exactly what we got.

You don't get to take a victory lap only partially solving a problem that you created by ignoring an easy to see cause.

nonsense. but also, maybe we wouldn't have as many deaths if the previous admin hadn't played it down and lied to the public about it. 

And let his minions spread lies about it, rather than call them out.  This led to unnecessary polarization and more deaths.  

But hey,  it helped ad revenue for the right wing media sphere.

tbergs

EdsonNascimento said:

Baby formula debacle - further proof we would not have had a viable vaccine available as quickly under this Administration.  

There's no way that factory should have been shut that long, especially considering they did not find 1 baby that actually got sick from the contaminant.   Yes, it need to be stopped, shut down and investigated. But, they knew back in October this was the problem it was going to cause.  Proper urgency was not given.

The same FDA process here would have made the Vaccine take its typical 4 years development time.  

You elected a lifelong bureaucrat, and that's exactly what we got.

You don't get to take a victory lap only partially solving a problem that you created by ignoring an easy to see cause.

/\ This right here. Idiocy at it's best. Maybe go help stop the steal or save America by donating some more money to the GOP. They're looking out for you big guy.

mace1229

brianlux said:

Dumb questions from a guy (me) who has worked with kids, help raise nephew who were past infancy, but never had kids of my own:  Why is there so much widespread need for baby formula?  Is breast feeding that uncommon today?

My wife had to stop taking her arthritis medication to breast feed. So she did it for a few weeks before getting back on and switching to the bottle. 

My brother and his wife adopted 2 girls from infancy, took them home from the hospital when they were days old. They long-term fostered others as well. She obviously was unable to breast feed.
There are lots of reasons why. There’s some a stigma unfortunately, I’ve overheard parents at parks criticizing formula, almost like it’s due to laziness or something. But there’s lots of valid reasons why.

oftenreading

Breastfeeding is an important intervention not just for the health of the baby but also the mother as well. Unfortunately, breasfeeding rates in the USA are lower than almost all other high-income countries, probably due to the completely inadequate maternity leave provisions for most jobs, often requiring women to return to work by the time the baby is 6 weeks old. There are other reasons as well, including lack of widespread support for breastfeeding, but that's probably the major one.

One thing to remember about the formula shortage, though, it that it isn't just a shortage of regular formula for healthy term infants, it also includes shortages of a wide range of specialty formulas for infants and young children with various medical conditions that require specialized diets. Often these formulas need to be given beyond infancy into the toddler and preschooler years because the child can't absorb nutrients from other foods, and in many cases would not have been able to absorb nutrients from breastmilk either. 

Halifax2TheMax

Damn you Brandon! Too bad Jarrod Dear Boy wasn’t around to warehouse the stuff at Mar-I-Lieo or Bedministerinher to generate some more family revenue, right? 

Australian goat’s milk is coming.

In an all-hands-on-deck multiagency push, infant formula is being corralled from all parts of the globe as part of Operation Fly Formula.

On Friday afternoon, the Food and Drug Administration announced Australian company Bubs will send 27.5 million eight-ounce bottles of a variety of infant formulas, from “easy-digest” goat’s milk to organic grass-fed cow’s milk and specialty formulas like Bubs Supreme A2 beta-casein protein. Some of this product is in stock and ready for transport, while some will be produced in the coming weeks and months.

The imports come as Washington scrambles to respond a shortage of baby formula that has left shelves bare and parents struggling to find food for infants and children with special dietary needs. The FDA has been sharply criticized for failing to head off the shortage.

At the same time, Health and Human Services Secretary Xavier Becerra invoked the Defense Production Act for a third time in less than a week, this time to ensure agribusiness giant Cargill, the United States’ largest privately held company, will prioritize delivering raw materials to infant formula manufacturers over other food companies.

Operation Fly Formula’s principal logistic control comes out of HHS, with daily communication with the White House, FDA, Agriculture Department, Defense Department and other agencies. According to HHS officials, the first priority is to identify specialty formulas for infants and others with rare metabolic disorders, product that will primarily be distributed, once stateside, through medical channels like children’s hospitals and pediatricians’ offices. The agency is prioritizing products from English-speaking countries to minimize how much relabeling and repackaging must be done.

The Juggler

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Anyone see 2000 mules yet?  I know I’m looking forward to it!

haha

tbergs

The Juggler said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Anyone see 2000 mules yet?  I know I’m looking forward to it!

haha

And the same people who paid to see that garbage are complaining about the price of gas and consumables right now.

gimmesometruth27

tbergs said:

The Juggler said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

Anyone see 2000 mules yet?  I know I’m looking forward to it!

haha

And the same people who paid to see that garbage are complaining about the price of gas and consumables right now.

i'm gonna make a documentary about the people that actually paid to see it in a theater called "2000 fools, or the people that actually believe in this shit enough to spend money on it".