Auto-Save Draft feature temporarily disabled. Please be sure you manually save your post by selecting "Save Draft" if you have that need.

GOP

1454648505158

Comments

  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 23,206
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Is economic equity the appropriate or right goal? I've never been convinced that it is.  I know it's a conservative mantra,  but this liberal believes that equity of opportunities,  not equity of outcomes is the appropriate goal.  

    The standard of living has only improved in this country,  unabated,  since its inception.  That is a good thing.  

    None of this means I don't believe in the progressive tax system,  that we should expand social programs,  or that the disadvantaged youth should have better education support.  They absolutely should.  This means we tweak our system,  nott blow it up.  

    I've worked my ass off my whole life and came from a poor immigrant family where my dad never finished the 8th grade.  I certainly do not think someone who has had the same opportunities should have the same outcomes as me just because they live where I do.

    your ladt paragraph is incomplete.

    .....unless they put the same work in.
    How do you evaluate such a thing? You can't pretend some work isn't more valuable than other work based on the required education,  competition and value creation. 

    thats the point. given the same opportunites and applying themselves in a similar way to your path, shouldnt garner similar outcome?
    Yes if in the same field.... to an extent.  Do you think Ben Rothleisberger and Mason Rudolph should be paid the same over the course of the last several years?
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,115
    edited October 13
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Is economic equity the appropriate or right goal? I've never been convinced that it is.  I know it's a conservative mantra,  but this liberal believes that equity of opportunities,  not equity of outcomes is the appropriate goal.  

    The standard of living has only improved in this country,  unabated,  since its inception.  That is a good thing.  

    None of this means I don't believe in the progressive tax system,  that we should expand social programs,  or that the disadvantaged youth should have better education support.  They absolutely should.  This means we tweak our system,  nott blow it up.  

    I've worked my ass off my whole life and came from a poor immigrant family where my dad never finished the 8th grade.  I certainly do not think someone who has had the same opportunities should have the same outcomes as me just because they live where I do.

    your ladt paragraph is incomplete.

    .....unless they put the same work in.
    How do you evaluate such a thing? You can't pretend some work isn't more valuable than other work based on the required education,  competition and value creation. 

    thats the point. given the same opportunites and applying themselves in a similar way to your path, shouldnt garner similar outcome?
    Yes if in the same field.... to an extent.  Do you think Ben Rothleisberger and Mason Rudolph should be paid the same over the course of the last several years?

    no. because ben put his work in with the talent he has. which at the time was as starting nfl qb. rudolph with his talent is doing what HE is qualified to do. so while both are qbs in the nfl there is a fundamental difference between starter and back up.

    side note, at this point ben should be back-up or retire. ....
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 23,206
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Is economic equity the appropriate or right goal? I've never been convinced that it is.  I know it's a conservative mantra,  but this liberal believes that equity of opportunities,  not equity of outcomes is the appropriate goal.  

    The standard of living has only improved in this country,  unabated,  since its inception.  That is a good thing.  

    None of this means I don't believe in the progressive tax system,  that we should expand social programs,  or that the disadvantaged youth should have better education support.  They absolutely should.  This means we tweak our system,  nott blow it up.  

    I've worked my ass off my whole life and came from a poor immigrant family where my dad never finished the 8th grade.  I certainly do not think someone who has had the same opportunities should have the same outcomes as me just because they live where I do.

    your ladt paragraph is incomplete.

    .....unless they put the same work in.
    How do you evaluate such a thing? You can't pretend some work isn't more valuable than other work based on the required education,  competition and value creation. 

    thats the point. given the same opportunites and applying themselves in a similar way to your path, shouldnt garner similar outcome?
    Yes if in the same field.... to an extent.  Do you think Ben Rothleisberger and Mason Rudolph should be paid the same over the course of the last several years?

    no. because ben put his work in with the talent he has. which at the time was as starting nfl qb. rudolph with his talent is doing what HE is qualified to do. so while both are qbs in the nfl there is a fundamental difference between starter and back up.

    side note, at this point ben should be back-up or retire. ....
    I think even within a field there are "starters" and backups... A's, B's and C's...  

    But that's all quibbling.  I think you understand my point. I could go further and say that not all starters and backups should not be paid the same.  I think you would agree?
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,115
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Is economic equity the appropriate or right goal? I've never been convinced that it is.  I know it's a conservative mantra,  but this liberal believes that equity of opportunities,  not equity of outcomes is the appropriate goal.  

    The standard of living has only improved in this country,  unabated,  since its inception.  That is a good thing.  

    None of this means I don't believe in the progressive tax system,  that we should expand social programs,  or that the disadvantaged youth should have better education support.  They absolutely should.  This means we tweak our system,  nott blow it up.  

    I've worked my ass off my whole life and came from a poor immigrant family where my dad never finished the 8th grade.  I certainly do not think someone who has had the same opportunities should have the same outcomes as me just because they live where I do.

    your ladt paragraph is incomplete.

    .....unless they put the same work in.
    How do you evaluate such a thing? You can't pretend some work isn't more valuable than other work based on the required education,  competition and value creation. 

    thats the point. given the same opportunites and applying themselves in a similar way to your path, shouldnt garner similar outcome?
    Yes if in the same field.... to an extent.  Do you think Ben Rothleisberger and Mason Rudolph should be paid the same over the course of the last several years?

    no. because ben put his work in with the talent he has. which at the time was as starting nfl qb. rudolph with his talent is doing what HE is qualified to do. so while both are qbs in the nfl there is a fundamental difference between starter and back up.

    side note, at this point ben should be back-up or retire. ....
    I think even within a field there are "starters" and backups... A's, B's and C's...  

    But that's all quibbling.  I think you understand my point. I could go further and say that not all starters and backups should not be paid the same.  I think you would agree?

    perhaps a bad analogy though given nfl market structure, cap   etc .. 


    so the thought struck about equitable opportunities. should we overcompensate for a time to focus on the disadvantaged while then working toward more balanced opportunities? state school funding as an example....
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 23,206
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Is economic equity the appropriate or right goal? I've never been convinced that it is.  I know it's a conservative mantra,  but this liberal believes that equity of opportunities,  not equity of outcomes is the appropriate goal.  

    The standard of living has only improved in this country,  unabated,  since its inception.  That is a good thing.  

    None of this means I don't believe in the progressive tax system,  that we should expand social programs,  or that the disadvantaged youth should have better education support.  They absolutely should.  This means we tweak our system,  nott blow it up.  

    I've worked my ass off my whole life and came from a poor immigrant family where my dad never finished the 8th grade.  I certainly do not think someone who has had the same opportunities should have the same outcomes as me just because they live where I do.

    your ladt paragraph is incomplete.

    .....unless they put the same work in.
    How do you evaluate such a thing? You can't pretend some work isn't more valuable than other work based on the required education,  competition and value creation. 

    thats the point. given the same opportunites and applying themselves in a similar way to your path, shouldnt garner similar outcome?
    Yes if in the same field.... to an extent.  Do you think Ben Rothleisberger and Mason Rudolph should be paid the same over the course of the last several years?

    no. because ben put his work in with the talent he has. which at the time was as starting nfl qb. rudolph with his talent is doing what HE is qualified to do. so while both are qbs in the nfl there is a fundamental difference between starter and back up.

    side note, at this point ben should be back-up or retire. ....
    I think even within a field there are "starters" and backups... A's, B's and C's...  

    But that's all quibbling.  I think you understand my point. I could go further and say that not all starters and backups should not be paid the same.  I think you would agree?

    perhaps a bad analogy though given nfl market structure, cap   etc .. 


    so the thought struck about equitable opportunities. should we overcompensate for a time to focus on the disadvantaged while then working toward more balanced opportunities? state school funding as an example....
    The fact that there's a cap makes it even more interesting.  Even with a cap,  you pay for performance.  

    What do you mean by overcompensate? Does that mean taking pay from nuclear engineers to pay drywallers?
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,115
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Is economic equity the appropriate or right goal? I've never been convinced that it is.  I know it's a conservative mantra,  but this liberal believes that equity of opportunities,  not equity of outcomes is the appropriate goal.  

    The standard of living has only improved in this country,  unabated,  since its inception.  That is a good thing.  

    None of this means I don't believe in the progressive tax system,  that we should expand social programs,  or that the disadvantaged youth should have better education support.  They absolutely should.  This means we tweak our system,  nott blow it up.  

    I've worked my ass off my whole life and came from a poor immigrant family where my dad never finished the 8th grade.  I certainly do not think someone who has had the same opportunities should have the same outcomes as me just because they live where I do.

    your ladt paragraph is incomplete.

    .....unless they put the same work in.
    How do you evaluate such a thing? You can't pretend some work isn't more valuable than other work based on the required education,  competition and value creation. 

    thats the point. given the same opportunites and applying themselves in a similar way to your path, shouldnt garner similar outcome?
    Yes if in the same field.... to an extent.  Do you think Ben Rothleisberger and Mason Rudolph should be paid the same over the course of the last several years?

    no. because ben put his work in with the talent he has. which at the time was as starting nfl qb. rudolph with his talent is doing what HE is qualified to do. so while both are qbs in the nfl there is a fundamental difference between starter and back up.

    side note, at this point ben should be back-up or retire. ....
    I think even within a field there are "starters" and backups... A's, B's and C's...  

    But that's all quibbling.  I think you understand my point. I could go further and say that not all starters and backups should not be paid the same.  I think you would agree?

    perhaps a bad analogy though given nfl market structure, cap   etc .. 


    so the thought struck about equitable opportunities. should we overcompensate for a time to focus on the disadvantaged while then working toward more balanced opportunities? state school funding as an example....
    The fact that there's a cap makes it even more interesting.  Even with a cap,  you pay for performance.  

    What do you mean by overcompensate? Does that mean taking pay from nuclear engineers to pay drywallers?

    begins at childhood. changes have start there for those starting out , for at least a generation. what we do with/for those already coming up or well into adulthood is a challenge for sure. removing or mitagating those factors that affect the poor in general is a good start. interst rates on loans for one. isnt it an additional burden financially to tack on 20plus% to a loan for poorer folks? those with means take loans they dont necessarily need for super cheap interest. so they get access to cheap money where as my first used car loan with no history was 23%......
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 23,206
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Is economic equity the appropriate or right goal? I've never been convinced that it is.  I know it's a conservative mantra,  but this liberal believes that equity of opportunities,  not equity of outcomes is the appropriate goal.  

    The standard of living has only improved in this country,  unabated,  since its inception.  That is a good thing.  

    None of this means I don't believe in the progressive tax system,  that we should expand social programs,  or that the disadvantaged youth should have better education support.  They absolutely should.  This means we tweak our system,  nott blow it up.  

    I've worked my ass off my whole life and came from a poor immigrant family where my dad never finished the 8th grade.  I certainly do not think someone who has had the same opportunities should have the same outcomes as me just because they live where I do.

    your ladt paragraph is incomplete.

    .....unless they put the same work in.
    How do you evaluate such a thing? You can't pretend some work isn't more valuable than other work based on the required education,  competition and value creation. 

    thats the point. given the same opportunites and applying themselves in a similar way to your path, shouldnt garner similar outcome?
    Yes if in the same field.... to an extent.  Do you think Ben Rothleisberger and Mason Rudolph should be paid the same over the course of the last several years?

    no. because ben put his work in with the talent he has. which at the time was as starting nfl qb. rudolph with his talent is doing what HE is qualified to do. so while both are qbs in the nfl there is a fundamental difference between starter and back up.

    side note, at this point ben should be back-up or retire. ....
    I think even within a field there are "starters" and backups... A's, B's and C's...  

    But that's all quibbling.  I think you understand my point. I could go further and say that not all starters and backups should not be paid the same.  I think you would agree?

    perhaps a bad analogy though given nfl market structure, cap   etc .. 


    so the thought struck about equitable opportunities. should we overcompensate for a time to focus on the disadvantaged while then working toward more balanced opportunities? state school funding as an example....
    The fact that there's a cap makes it even more interesting.  Even with a cap,  you pay for performance.  

    What do you mean by overcompensate? Does that mean taking pay from nuclear engineers to pay drywallers?

    begins at childhood. changes have start there for those starting out , for at least a generation. what we do with/for those already coming up or well into adulthood is a challenge for sure. removing or mitagating those factors that affect the poor in general is a good start. interst rates on loans for one. isnt it an additional burden financially to tack on 20plus% to a loan for poorer folks? those with means take loans they dont necessarily need for super cheap interest. so they get access to cheap money where as my first used car loan with no history was 23%......
    Mine was near that rate too.  And the government can guarantee the loans just like they do with student loans and mortgages.  I'd be fine with that.  I don't think they should ever be discharged though.  And I also don't think a private lender should be required to underwrite them without govt guarantee. 


  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,115
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Is economic equity the appropriate or right goal? I've never been convinced that it is.  I know it's a conservative mantra,  but this liberal believes that equity of opportunities,  not equity of outcomes is the appropriate goal.  

    The standard of living has only improved in this country,  unabated,  since its inception.  That is a good thing.  

    None of this means I don't believe in the progressive tax system,  that we should expand social programs,  or that the disadvantaged youth should have better education support.  They absolutely should.  This means we tweak our system,  nott blow it up.  

    I've worked my ass off my whole life and came from a poor immigrant family where my dad never finished the 8th grade.  I certainly do not think someone who has had the same opportunities should have the same outcomes as me just because they live where I do.

    your ladt paragraph is incomplete.

    .....unless they put the same work in.
    How do you evaluate such a thing? You can't pretend some work isn't more valuable than other work based on the required education,  competition and value creation. 

    thats the point. given the same opportunites and applying themselves in a similar way to your path, shouldnt garner similar outcome?
    Yes if in the same field.... to an extent.  Do you think Ben Rothleisberger and Mason Rudolph should be paid the same over the course of the last several years?

    no. because ben put his work in with the talent he has. which at the time was as starting nfl qb. rudolph with his talent is doing what HE is qualified to do. so while both are qbs in the nfl there is a fundamental difference between starter and back up.

    side note, at this point ben should be back-up or retire. ....
    I think even within a field there are "starters" and backups... A's, B's and C's...  

    But that's all quibbling.  I think you understand my point. I could go further and say that not all starters and backups should not be paid the same.  I think you would agree?

    perhaps a bad analogy though given nfl market structure, cap   etc .. 


    so the thought struck about equitable opportunities. should we overcompensate for a time to focus on the disadvantaged while then working toward more balanced opportunities? state school funding as an example....
    The fact that there's a cap makes it even more interesting.  Even with a cap,  you pay for performance.  

    What do you mean by overcompensate? Does that mean taking pay from nuclear engineers to pay drywallers?

    begins at childhood. changes have start there for those starting out , for at least a generation. what we do with/for those already coming up or well into adulthood is a challenge for sure. removing or mitagating those factors that affect the poor in general is a good start. interst rates on loans for one. isnt it an additional burden financially to tack on 20plus% to a loan for poorer folks? those with means take loans they dont necessarily need for super cheap interest. so they get access to cheap money where as my first used car loan with no history was 23%......
    Mine was near that rate too.  And the government can guarantee the loans just like they do with student loans and mortgages.  I'd be fine with that.  I don't think they should ever be discharged though.  And I also don't think a private lender should be required to underwrite them without govt guarantee. 



    challenge is scale as I see it. too many can fall through the cracks.  uniform localized programs. targeting the needs of a given community or groups of communities.  needs of the appalachian coal regions are different than the needs of say rural Mississippi etc...
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 29,135

    Republican Rep. Jeff Fortenberry of Nebraska has been indicted, according to the US Attorney's Office for the Central District of California.

    The office's verified Twitter account posted on Tuesday afternoon, "Federal grand jury indictment charges U.S. Rep. Jeff Fortenberry with one count of scheming to falsify and conceal material facts and two counts of making false statements to federal investigators looking into illegal contributions to his 2016 campaign. Full announcement coming."
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 28,510
    interesting menu. hot beef sundaes. is this a normal MAGA dish?
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 28,510
    one person on twitter said "that sounds like a sex thing in Ted Cruz's google search history". LOL
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,115
    interesting menu. hot beef sundaes. is this a normal MAGA dish?

    no, its a thing apparently. similar a kfc bowl?


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,115
    example of a greek salad on a stick


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,115
     The GOP rebrands itself as the party of tax cheats

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2021/10/21/gop-rebrands-itself-party-tax-cheats/



     Opinion: The GOP rebrands itself as the party of tax cheats
    Opinion by Catherine Rampell
    October 21 at 6:23 PM ET
    Once upon a time, Republicans portrayed themselves as the party of small government and family values. Recently, though, GOP leaders have been cobbling together a new coalition, welcoming insurrectionists, white-nationalist tiki-torchers and people who think Bill Gates is trying to microchip them.
    The latest recruit to the Big Tent? Tax cheats.
    Here’s the backstory. Each year, about $600 billion in taxes legally owed are not paid. For scale, that’s roughly equal to all federal income taxes paid by the lowest-earning 90 percent of taxpayers, according to Treasury Department data.
    These unpaid taxes — often called the “tax gap” — are predominantly owed by wealthy individuals. The richest 1 percent alone duck an estimated $163 billion in income taxes each year.
    To be clear, rank-and-file wage-earners are not necessarily more honest or patriotic. It’s just much harder for them to shortchange Uncle Sam.
    Workplace grunts have taxes automatically withheld from their paychecks. And, critically, most labor-related income — as well as income from dividends, interest and other sources — gets reported to the Internal Revenue Service through W-2s, 1099s and other common tax documents.
    So it’s difficult to sneak unpaid liabilities past the IRS.
    There are some types of income, however, for which little or no third-party reporting exists. These income categories — including partnership, proprietorship and rental income — accrue disproportionately to high earners. The government has much less ability to tell when these filers are misreporting; as a result, they can more easily get away with cheating.

    continues...


    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 15,045
    interesting menu. hot beef sundaes. is this a normal MAGA dish?
    No, just an Iowa state fair thing. Had butter on a stick before
    hippiemom = goodness
  • JeBurkhardtJeBurkhardt Posts: 1,630
    interesting menu. hot beef sundaes. is this a normal MAGA dish?
    No, just an Iowa state fair thing. Had butter on a stick before
    Midwestern State fairs must be sponsored by cardiac hospitals based on the food they sell there. They will deep fry anything. The next logical step is just putting the oil from the frying vats into the lemon shake up cups and selling it. 
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,115
    interesting menu. hot beef sundaes. is this a normal MAGA dish?
    No, just an Iowa state fair thing. Had butter on a stick before
    Midwestern State fairs must be sponsored by cardiac hospitals based on the food they sell there. They will deep fry anything. The next logical step is just putting the oil from the frying vats into the lemon shake up cups and selling it. 

    hmmmm, within a 10 mile or do radius of the ohio state fairgrounds are 6? hospitals? one of which is the osu hospital complex and an ohio health cardiac hospital....
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,115
    edited October 31
     

    A Party Embraces Vulgarity

    141
    48

    I have tried for some time to avoid commenting on a topic that I felt should be so far beneath our political discourse that to give it the oxygen of attention would be to play into the strategic hopes of those who are seeking to debase our democracy. But as Yoda, the wise sage of Star Wars, might say if he was trying to fight those who have turned to the “dark side” of our national polity, ignore it no longer I can. 

    The issue at hand can succinctly be summed up in three words: “Let’s go Brandon.” If you have no idea what I am talking about, consider yourself fortunate. For reasons too mundane to fully outline here, “Let’s go Brandon” has become a favorite chant and rallying cry for many Republicans as a stand-in for another three-word chant that you may also have heard : “F- Joe Biden,” with F-, for the purposes of decorum in this newsletter, standing for a four-letter vulgarity.  Search for “Let’s Go Brandon,” and you will start finding it everywhere - all over social media, a song with a ton of downloads on iTunes, at political rallies, and among snickering Republicans in Washington.

    In a compelling column in the Washington Post, Dana Milbank uses the phrase to dive into the stark differences between the seriousness and propriety of the two political parties at this moment. He writes:

    “Democrats clear the way for passage of a $1.2 trillion infrastructure bill that will provide broadband Internet and lead-free drinking water to every American, and better roads, bridges and ports for all to enjoy. And Republicans reply: Let’s go Brandon...

    Could the contrast be any greater? Half of America’s leaders are trying to govern, and the other half are hurling vulgarities.”

    The entire piece is worth the read, but for our discussion here I would like to delve a little deeper into what I think these vulgarities really mean, what motivates them, and what should be our - particularly the media’s - response. 

    Politics has never been a genteel pasttame. The volume of vulgarities I heard covering the White House, Congress, and politics at the state and local level over the decades would rival any comedy special on HBO. In the passionate pursuit of power, discourse, especially behind the closed doors where the real action takes place, is often reduced to words that can be spelled with only four letters, or their adjectival equivalents. And no matter what side of the political divide you might be on, there have likely been moments when you are reading something or listening to an opposing politician speak and you have been moved to at least think of obscenities, if not utter them out loud. There have certainly been many Democratic politicians who have sworn about Republicans. But what we are witnessing here is fundamentally different. 

    “F- Joe Biden,” or the slightly less explicitly obscene but no more clever “Let’s go Brandon,” is about much more than political passion or anger. It’s about weaponizing the vulgar dehumanization of our entire democratic - small d - experiment. Joe Biden is not only a person; he is the President of the United States, whether your tinfoil-shrouded conspiracy brain cares to recognize that fact or not. How many times have we heard Republicans sanctimoniously preach about how Democrats don’t “respect” the office of the presidency for such things as President Obama not saluting properly or wearing a tan suit? 

    To be sure, many Democrats have said some form of “F- Donald Trump.” There was even a rap song to that effect. We all have a right to free speech. But when Republican elected representatives say “Let’s go Brandon” to end a speech on the House floor, like Bill Posey, a Republican from Florida did, or wear a “Let’s go Brandon” facemask, like South Carolina Republican Jeff Duncan did, or when Ted Cruz can’t get enough of it, something else is going on. This is a movement that has engulfed the party, and party leaders think they can use it to effectively rally their voters. The sad truth is that they are likely right.

    It’s not surprising that the “F- Joe Biden” chant began at sporting events, because it is just the kind of thing that happens when tens of thousands of often inebriated fans get riled up over a game, feuling a group-enforced hatred for an opposing team. Adults who should know better sometimes get carried away. But this isn’t a game. This isn’t something where you act stupid on a Saturday afternoon and then can go back to your normal life once the beer and heartburn from the hot dogs have worn off. This is our national identity. 

    During the 2020 campaign, Republicans had a hard time demonizing Biden. Back to the sports analogy, he was like a player on your rival team that seems to be a good person and never makes offense. But now that he is president, those who want to undermine his power are eagerly following the ethos of the bums in the bleachers, and actively stoking vulgarity. 

    The hypocrisy is stunning. This is the political party that had a Republican candidate for governor of Virginia run an ad featuring a mother (who just happens to be a Republican activist) talk about how her son’s apparently innocent sensibilities were offended when he was assigned Toni Morrison’s classic novel Beloved in his high school’s AP English class. Learning about the horrors of slavery and the Black experience in America? No, we have to protect our youth from that. But having your six your old hear grown men and women use one of the vilest words in the English language to attack the president at a sporting event? That’s apparently patriotic free speech. And a hoot at that.

    This chant perfectly encapsulates the rot and unseriousness of the Republican party - like the smart-alec in the classroom who adds nothing but juvenile taunts and distractions. And let’s be honest, it isn’t just this chant. Go back to the t-shirts sold at Trump rallies in 2016 and what they said about Hillary Clinton, or for that matter the merchandise showcased at Trump rallies today. 

    The unseemliness of this is so grotesque that I think many in the Washington press seek to ignore it. Or they report on it as a special phenomenon to explain to their readers. But that is to fundamentally misjudge this moment in American history. Immature vulgarity, fueled by bigotry, misogyny, sanctimony, privilege, unseriousness, flippancy, and ignorance, is what is animating the former president, his base, and thus by extension the entire Republican party over which he rules. 

    It’s easy for the more “respectable” Washington Republican officials to wave away the crassness in the face of questions, just like they tried to distance themselves from Trump's tweets, back when he was still on Twitter. But this is more than just words. Hateful speech has a way of becoming violent action, Just remember how the insurrectionists on January 6 were riled up to storm the Capitol. 

    This is Donald Trump allowing the basest of human instincts to triumph over reason. It is a party that marches, in almost lockstep, under a banner of misplaced victimhood, of vilifying those who are different, of denying the truth, and having the chutzpah - fueled by privilege - to announce a hateful ignorance to the world with raw vulgarity, or the meekest fig leaf of innuendo. Let’s go Brandon? How about let’s go America?



    141
    48





    Ready for more?

    © 2021 Dan Rather. See privacy, terms and information collection notice
    Publish on Substack
    Steady is on Substack – the place for independent writing

    Post edited by mickeyrat on
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • static111static111 Posts: 2,901
    I’m not sure I follow Dan here.  I’m pretty sure people have been saying fuck (the president) forever.  Not something I see as being a big deal especially as much as some of us went after bush II and Trump. 
  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 4,946
    static111 said:
    I’m not sure I follow Dan here.  I’m pretty sure people have been saying fuck (the president) forever.  Not something I see as being a big deal especially as much as some of us went after bush II and Trump. 
    Yea. Reaching for sure. 
  • HobbesHobbes Pacific NorthwestPosts: 5,172
    static111 said:
    I’m not sure I follow Dan here.  I’m pretty sure people have been saying fuck (the president) forever.  Not something I see as being a big deal especially as much as some of us went after bush II and Trump. 
    Sure we/us/people have been saying fuck somebody, but mostly on social media outlets, band forums, and informal settings and gatherings. Today we are seeing members of Congress, pilots for Southwest, stadium chants aired on national TV, all publicly endorsing "Let's Go Brandon!" or "Fuck Joe Biden!" A vulgar display and it is a big deal.
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 29,135
    Hobbes said:
    static111 said:
    I’m not sure I follow Dan here.  I’m pretty sure people have been saying fuck (the president) forever.  Not something I see as being a big deal especially as much as some of us went after bush II and Trump. 
    Sure we/us/people have been saying fuck somebody, but mostly on social media outlets, band forums, and informal settings and gatherings. Today we are seeing members of Congress, pilots for Southwest, stadium chants aired on national TV, all publicly endorsing "Let's Go Brandon!" or "Fuck Joe Biden!" A vulgar display and it is a big deal.
    Oh but it’s same same dontcha know. The do nothing party doesn’t have any solutions but vulgar chants to own the libs. There’s going to be a lot of buyers remorse in 2024. But maybe not.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,115
    static111 said:
    I’m not sure I follow Dan here.  I’m pretty sure people have been saying fuck (the president) forever.  Not something I see as being a big deal especially as much as some of us went after bush II and Trump. 

    To be sure, many Democrats have said some form of “F- Donald Trump.” There was even a rap song to that effect. We all have a right to free speech. But when Republican elected representatives say “Let’s go Brandon” to end a speech on the House floor, like Bill Posey, a Republican from Florida did, or wear a “Let’s go Brandon” facemask, like South Carolina Republican Jeff Duncan did, or when Ted Cruz can’t get enough of it, something else is going on. This is a movement that has engulfed the party, and party leaders think they can use it to effectively rally their voters. The sad truth is that they are likely right.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • static111static111 Posts: 2,901
    mickeyrat said:
    static111 said:
    I’m not sure I follow Dan here.  I’m pretty sure people have been saying fuck (the president) forever.  Not something I see as being a big deal especially as much as some of us went after bush II and Trump. 

    To be sure, many Democrats have said some form of “F- Donald Trump.” There was even a rap song to that effect. We all have a right to free speech. But when Republican elected representatives say “Let’s go Brandon” to end a speech on the House floor, like Bill Posey, a Republican from Florida did, or wear a “Let’s go Brandon” facemask, like South Carolina Republican Jeff Duncan did, or when Ted Cruz can’t get enough of it, something else is going on. This is a movement that has engulfed the party, and party leaders think they can use it to effectively rally their voters. The sad truth is that they are likely right.
    Sounds like they are voicing and representing the beliefs of their constituents, not that it isn’t crass, but sounds to me like they are doing their jobs. For better or worse we got here together.
  • Ledbetterman10Ledbetterman10 Posts: 15,257
    edited October 31
    It’s been tough for people named Karen and Brandon over the past few years. Not as bad as being a high schooler named Jeremy is the early 90’s, but it’s getting there. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now.

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 23,206
    It’s been tough for people named Karen and Brandon over the past few years. Not as bad as being a high schooler named Jeremy is the early 90’s, but it’s getting there. 
    The Karen thing is annoying and terrible.  For those of us born in the 70s, Karen is a very common name. 


  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 28,510
    mrussel1 said:
    It’s been tough for people named Karen and Brandon over the past few years. Not as bad as being a high schooler named Jeremy is the early 90’s, but it’s getting there. 
    The Karen thing is annoying and terrible.  For those of us born in the 70s, Karen is a very common name. 


    same with the male counterpart, Chad. Chad was my parents' second choice to name me. I know several Chads as well. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 23,206
    mrussel1 said:
    It’s been tough for people named Karen and Brandon over the past few years. Not as bad as being a high schooler named Jeremy is the early 90’s, but it’s getting there. 
    The Karen thing is annoying and terrible.  For those of us born in the 70s, Karen is a very common name. 


    same with the male counterpart, Chad. Chad was my parents' second choice to name me. I know several Chads as well. 
    Yeah,  Chad seems like a surfer/skater name... not a complainer. 
  • F Me In The BrainF Me In The Brain this knows everybody from other commetsPosts: 26,008
    Some Chads are wankers.


    :rofl:   
    The love he receives is the love that is saved
Sign In or Register to comment.