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  • keep movin' them goalposts. 

    "find me an example"
    "example found"
    "okay, find me a different example I didn't ask for previously"
    Not quite the same though is it? Dems condemned the attack of five years ago and I haven’t heard Ted Crud condemn this one. Maybe he has and you could link me to it?
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • nicknyr15nicknyr15 Posts: 5,000
    nicknyr15 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    Can anyone recall the last time a repub party headquarters was firebombed like what happened to a dem party headquarters in Tejas last night? It is Tejas after all but still. Anyone?
    https://people.com/crime/north-carolina-republican-party-headquarters-firebombed/


    Okay, from five years ago and it was publicly condemned by the dem party. Second time the one in Tejas was attacked in a year and I can’t seem to find the repub condemnation of either. Help convince me it’s same-same.
    Jeez dude admit defeat and move on. Who cares. Enough already. 
    Who cares? Seems you do enough to add little to the conversation. Seems relevant in light of 1/6 and the current repub party stoking violence. Maybe you should move in from that gun violence “crisis” in your city? Enough already, who cares, right?
    Sure. 
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,237
    mickeyrat said:
    Can anyone recall the last time a repub party headquarters was firebombed like what happened to a dem party headquarters in Tejas last night? It is Tejas after all but still. Anyone?
    https://people.com/crime/north-carolina-republican-party-headquarters-firebombed/


    Okay, from five years ago and it was publicly condemned by the dem party. Second time the one in Tejas was attacked in a year and I can’t seem to find the repub condemnation of either. Help convince me it’s same-same.

    I'm not. you asked. I answered.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyrat said:
    mickeyrat said:
    Can anyone recall the last time a repub party headquarters was firebombed like what happened to a dem party headquarters in Tejas last night? It is Tejas after all but still. Anyone?
    https://people.com/crime/north-carolina-republican-party-headquarters-firebombed/


    Okay, from five years ago and it was publicly condemned by the dem party. Second time the one in Tejas was attacked in a year and I can’t seem to find the repub condemnation of either. Help convince me it’s same-same.

    I'm not. you asked. I answered.
    Yes you did, thank you.
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,237
    mickeyrat said:
    mickeyrat said:
    Can anyone recall the last time a repub party headquarters was firebombed like what happened to a dem party headquarters in Tejas last night? It is Tejas after all but still. Anyone?
    https://people.com/crime/north-carolina-republican-party-headquarters-firebombed/


    Okay, from five years ago and it was publicly condemned by the dem party. Second time the one in Tejas was attacked in a year and I can’t seem to find the repub condemnation of either. Help convince me it’s same-same.

    I'm not. you asked. I answered.
    Yes you did, thank you.

    you're welcome.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,237
    ohh this motherfucker


    McConnell says he won't help Dems raise debt limit again
    By ALAN FRAM
    57 mins ago

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said Friday that he would not again help Democrats extend the government's borrowing authority, raising fresh doubts about how Congress will avert a federal default when a temporary patch expires in December.

    McConnell issued his warning in a letter to President Joe Biden a day after the Senate approved a $480 billion boost in the federal debt limit, enough to last about two months. In an eleventh-hour turnabout, the Kentucky Republican was among 11 GOP senators who provided decisive support Thursday for a procedural move that opened the door for subsequent Senate passage of that measure with only Democratic support.

    Some GOP senators criticized their leaders not holding out longer against Democrats' efforts to extend the debt limit, which they said would have sharpened their message that a still-developing multibillion-dollar package of Biden's top domestic priorities is wasteful and damaging to the economy.

    McConnell said Friday that he made his decision to refuse future help because of his opposition to the huge domestic bill and because of a “bizarre spectacle" on the Senate floor by Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y. After the bill passed, Schumer criticized Republicans for trying to push the country over “the cliff's edge" by opposing the debt limit extension.


    continues....



    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • JB16057JB16057 Posts: 443
    mickeyrat said:
    ohh this motherfucker


    McConnell says he won't help Dems raise debt limit again
    By ALAN FRAM
    57 mins ago

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said Friday that he would not again help Democrats extend the government's borrowing authority, raising fresh doubts about how Congress will avert a federal default when a temporary patch expires in December.

    McConnell issued his warning in a letter to President Joe Biden a day after the Senate approved a $480 billion boost in the federal debt limit, enough to last about two months. In an eleventh-hour turnabout, the Kentucky Republican was among 11 GOP senators who provided decisive support Thursday for a procedural move that opened the door for subsequent Senate passage of that measure with only Democratic support.

    Some GOP senators criticized their leaders not holding out longer against Democrats' efforts to extend the debt limit, which they said would have sharpened their message that a still-developing multibillion-dollar package of Biden's top domestic priorities is wasteful and damaging to the economy.

    McConnell said Friday that he made his decision to refuse future help because of his opposition to the huge domestic bill and because of a “bizarre spectacle" on the Senate floor by Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y. After the bill passed, Schumer criticized Republicans for trying to push the country over “the cliff's edge" by opposing the debt limit extension.


    continues....



    He is a motherfucker. He shouldn't have agreed to raise the debt limit in the first place. This country can not continue to increase the debt like it is. I blame the Rs just as much as the Ds. I am not happy that Trump did such a shitty job on the same issue but it didn't surprise me on his track record with bankruptcies yet he still lives in mansions. Government spending is out of control. Biden continues on about how his $3.5 trillion plan is free but that's a bunch of bullshit. Money is not free. Inflation is over the roof and we can not afford to keep doing this.
  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 19,204
    JB16057 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    ohh this motherfucker


    McConnell says he won't help Dems raise debt limit again
    By ALAN FRAM
    57 mins ago

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said Friday that he would not again help Democrats extend the government's borrowing authority, raising fresh doubts about how Congress will avert a federal default when a temporary patch expires in December.

    McConnell issued his warning in a letter to President Joe Biden a day after the Senate approved a $480 billion boost in the federal debt limit, enough to last about two months. In an eleventh-hour turnabout, the Kentucky Republican was among 11 GOP senators who provided decisive support Thursday for a procedural move that opened the door for subsequent Senate passage of that measure with only Democratic support.

    Some GOP senators criticized their leaders not holding out longer against Democrats' efforts to extend the debt limit, which they said would have sharpened their message that a still-developing multibillion-dollar package of Biden's top domestic priorities is wasteful and damaging to the economy.

    McConnell said Friday that he made his decision to refuse future help because of his opposition to the huge domestic bill and because of a “bizarre spectacle" on the Senate floor by Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y. After the bill passed, Schumer criticized Republicans for trying to push the country over “the cliff's edge" by opposing the debt limit extension.


    continues....



    He is a motherfucker. He shouldn't have agreed to raise the debt limit in the first place. This country can not continue to increase the debt like it is. I blame the Rs just as much as the Ds. I am not happy that Trump did such a shitty job on the same issue but it didn't surprise me on his track record with bankruptcies yet he still lives in mansions. Government spending is out of control. Biden continues on about how his $3.5 trillion plan is free but that's a bunch of bullshit. Money is not free. Inflation is over the roof and we can not afford to keep doing this.
    you are aware that raising the debt ceiling is how we pay down debt that has already been borrowed, right?

    if we default and do not pay our debts it could plunge us back into a recession, tank the economy, and damage our credit as a nation again. but let's not for one minute think that this is not the gop plan the whole time. they do it every fucking time they are in the minority. 

    i am fine with mcconnell burning it all down. we can then run and tattoo the gop as the party of default.

    the dems could get rid of the debt ceiling altogether legally but for some reason they will not do it.

    since the gop are destined to be a forever minority party with the way elections are going, it would be wise for mcconnell to avoid getting labeled the party of default. he capitulated when the dems started threatening to blow up the filibuster. start fucking with minority party procedural perks and watch how fast mcconnell will play ball.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • JB16057JB16057 Posts: 443
    JB16057 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    ohh this motherfucker


    McConnell says he won't help Dems raise debt limit again
    By ALAN FRAM
    57 mins ago

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said Friday that he would not again help Democrats extend the government's borrowing authority, raising fresh doubts about how Congress will avert a federal default when a temporary patch expires in December.

    McConnell issued his warning in a letter to President Joe Biden a day after the Senate approved a $480 billion boost in the federal debt limit, enough to last about two months. In an eleventh-hour turnabout, the Kentucky Republican was among 11 GOP senators who provided decisive support Thursday for a procedural move that opened the door for subsequent Senate passage of that measure with only Democratic support.

    Some GOP senators criticized their leaders not holding out longer against Democrats' efforts to extend the debt limit, which they said would have sharpened their message that a still-developing multibillion-dollar package of Biden's top domestic priorities is wasteful and damaging to the economy.

    McConnell said Friday that he made his decision to refuse future help because of his opposition to the huge domestic bill and because of a “bizarre spectacle" on the Senate floor by Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y. After the bill passed, Schumer criticized Republicans for trying to push the country over “the cliff's edge" by opposing the debt limit extension.


    continues....



    He is a motherfucker. He shouldn't have agreed to raise the debt limit in the first place. This country can not continue to increase the debt like it is. I blame the Rs just as much as the Ds. I am not happy that Trump did such a shitty job on the same issue but it didn't surprise me on his track record with bankruptcies yet he still lives in mansions. Government spending is out of control. Biden continues on about how his $3.5 trillion plan is free but that's a bunch of bullshit. Money is not free. Inflation is over the roof and we can not afford to keep doing this.
    you are aware that raising the debt ceiling is how we pay down debt that has already been borrowed, right?

    if we default and do not pay our debts it could plunge us back into a recession, tank the economy, and damage our credit as a nation again. but let's not for one minute think that this is not the gop plan the whole time. they do it every fucking time they are in the minority. 

    i am fine with mcconnell burning it all down. we can then run and tattoo the gop as the party of default.

    the dems could get rid of the debt ceiling altogether legally but for some reason they will not do it.

    since the gop are destined to be a forever minority party with the way elections are going, it would be wise for mcconnell to avoid getting labeled the party of default. he capitulated when the dems started threatening to blow up the filibuster. start fucking with minority party procedural perks and watch how fast mcconnell will play ball.
    If raising the debt ceiling is how we pay down debt, why hasn't the debt been paid down? I get what you're saying but it has been quite some time since our leaders have made progress on paying down the debt. The debt can't keep going up and up forever. The US economy has been booming for years(minus COVID) but the debt was only increased. It isn't responsible and someday it's going to come crashing down one way or another. The more money our government prints, the more expensive everything will be. We need to get inflation under control before it gets out of hand. I don't blame Biden for inflation today but what is he doing about inflation tomorrow? He has over 3 more years and all I'm hearing is that he wants to spend more "free" money. I'd love to see how $3.5 trillion dollars is free money. Sure, tax the rich but the rich have money for a reason. The rich always have and always will find a way for the smaller guys to pay more.

    There will be consequences if the dems blow up the filibuster which is why they haven't done it. We'll see which side blinks first. Either way, things can not continue like they are today. Inflation is out of control. The stock market is hitting all time highs yet middle America is struggling and that's is getting worse every day.

  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 23,314
    JB16057 said:
    JB16057 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    ohh this motherfucker


    McConnell says he won't help Dems raise debt limit again
    By ALAN FRAM
    57 mins ago

    WASHINGTON (AP) — Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell said Friday that he would not again help Democrats extend the government's borrowing authority, raising fresh doubts about how Congress will avert a federal default when a temporary patch expires in December.

    McConnell issued his warning in a letter to President Joe Biden a day after the Senate approved a $480 billion boost in the federal debt limit, enough to last about two months. In an eleventh-hour turnabout, the Kentucky Republican was among 11 GOP senators who provided decisive support Thursday for a procedural move that opened the door for subsequent Senate passage of that measure with only Democratic support.

    Some GOP senators criticized their leaders not holding out longer against Democrats' efforts to extend the debt limit, which they said would have sharpened their message that a still-developing multibillion-dollar package of Biden's top domestic priorities is wasteful and damaging to the economy.

    McConnell said Friday that he made his decision to refuse future help because of his opposition to the huge domestic bill and because of a “bizarre spectacle" on the Senate floor by Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y. After the bill passed, Schumer criticized Republicans for trying to push the country over “the cliff's edge" by opposing the debt limit extension.


    continues....



    He is a motherfucker. He shouldn't have agreed to raise the debt limit in the first place. This country can not continue to increase the debt like it is. I blame the Rs just as much as the Ds. I am not happy that Trump did such a shitty job on the same issue but it didn't surprise me on his track record with bankruptcies yet he still lives in mansions. Government spending is out of control. Biden continues on about how his $3.5 trillion plan is free but that's a bunch of bullshit. Money is not free. Inflation is over the roof and we can not afford to keep doing this.
    you are aware that raising the debt ceiling is how we pay down debt that has already been borrowed, right?

    if we default and do not pay our debts it could plunge us back into a recession, tank the economy, and damage our credit as a nation again. but let's not for one minute think that this is not the gop plan the whole time. they do it every fucking time they are in the minority. 

    i am fine with mcconnell burning it all down. we can then run and tattoo the gop as the party of default.

    the dems could get rid of the debt ceiling altogether legally but for some reason they will not do it.

    since the gop are destined to be a forever minority party with the way elections are going, it would be wise for mcconnell to avoid getting labeled the party of default. he capitulated when the dems started threatening to blow up the filibuster. start fucking with minority party procedural perks and watch how fast mcconnell will play ball.
    If raising the debt ceiling is how we pay down debt, why hasn't the debt been paid down? I get what you're saying but it has been quite some time since our leaders have made progress on paying down the debt. The debt can't keep going up and up forever. The US economy has been booming for years(minus COVID) but the debt was only increased. It isn't responsible and someday it's going to come crashing down one way or another. The more money our government prints, the more expensive everything will be. We need to get inflation under control before it gets out of hand. I don't blame Biden for inflation today but what is he doing about inflation tomorrow? He has over 3 more years and all I'm hearing is that he wants to spend more "free" money. I'd love to see how $3.5 trillion dollars is free money. Sure, tax the rich but the rich have money for a reason. The rich always have and always will find a way for the smaller guys to pay more.

    There will be consequences if the dems blow up the filibuster which is why they haven't done it. We'll see which side blinks first. Either way, things can not continue like they are today. Inflation is out of control. The stock market is hitting all time highs yet middle America is struggling and that's is getting worse every day.

    Is this what you said in 2017? Do you cut taxes and explode debt when you're in the longest bull run in history?  I can tell you that I was/am completely against those irresponsible tax cuts that led to a GDP of less than 3 fucking percent. 
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,237
    2000- budget surplus. used to service debt.
    2001- 2008 tax cuts, rebates. enter 2 wars within 2 years unpaid for. deficit spending re-implemented.checks on irresponsible banking/finance practices dismantled

    2009-2016. deficit spending reduced, long slow climb out of great recession

    2017-2020 major tax cuts , deficit spending explodes, pandemic exacerbates spending
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • SmellymanSmellyman AsiaPosts: 4,421
    mickeyrat said:
    2000- budget surplus. used to service debt.
    2001- 2008 tax cuts, rebates. enter 2 wars within 2 years unpaid for. deficit spending re-implemented.checks on irresponsible banking/finance practices dismantled

    2009-2016. deficit spending reduced, long slow climb out of great recession

    2017-2020 major tax cuts , deficit spending explodes, pandemic exacerbates spending

    Almost some sort of pattern there, of course you could go back 80 to 2000 too and same pattern is true
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,237
    loath to promote his smugness bit sometimes he is just on point..



    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • JB16057JB16057 Posts: 443
    mickeyrat said:
    2000- budget surplus. used to service debt.
    2001- 2008 tax cuts, rebates. enter 2 wars within 2 years unpaid for. deficit spending re-implemented.checks on irresponsible banking/finance practices dismantled

    2009-2016. deficit spending reduced, long slow climb out of great recession

    2017-2020 major tax cuts , deficit spending explodes, pandemic exacerbates spending
    We need fiscally responsible leaders and we haven't had any for a very long time.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 35,647
    mickeyrat said:
    loath to promote his smugness bit sometimes he is just on point..




    Maher nailed it and yes, "it" does scare the shit out of me.  We thought 2020 was a rough year?  
    Man...
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 19,204
    mickeyrat said:
    loath to promote his smugness bit sometimes he is just on point..



    i haven't watched him in a long time. he is pretty on point here. and because we are democrats we will watch this slowly happen right in front of our eyes and not try to do anything about it until it is too late.

    every day that goes by that we do nothing about the insurrection and the big lie, the more true it becomes.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 35,647
    mickeyrat said:
    loath to promote his smugness bit sometimes he is just on point..



    i haven't watched him in a long time. he is pretty on point here. and because we are democrats we will watch this slowly happen right in front of our eyes and not try to do anything about it until it is too late.

    every day that goes by that we do nothing about the insurrection and the big lie, the more true it becomes.

    I hate to say it... I mean I really hate to say it, but I can see this all unfolding in the coming years.  Not too many years ago, I wouldn't have believed it.  But after that last nearly 5 years of watching an ever increasing number of Americans turn in support of the most vapid, disgusting to hold a high level in office, it's gone beyond disbelief to near despair.  Even if we somehow manage to avoid this potential disaster, those people will still be out there, and if they lose they will be more rabid than ever.  I hate to sound so negative, but I don't see how this can turn out well, let alone anything but catastrophic.  How in the holy hell, when we were once relatively great, did we get to this place? 
    But we have to think beyond despair and act.  All of us who cherishes the idea of a democratic society needs to show up in the coming years and at the very least vote these fuckers out.  And we need to encourage moderates to fight back as well.  I'm hoping moderate Republicans such as the Lincoln Project folks will work to stem the toxic tide of the far Trump right.  And those of us who are Dems need to get our fellow Democrats to show up at every election.
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • gimmesometruth27gimmesometruth27 St. Fuckin LouisPosts: 19,204
    brianlux said:
    mickeyrat said:
    loath to promote his smugness bit sometimes he is just on point..



    i haven't watched him in a long time. he is pretty on point here. and because we are democrats we will watch this slowly happen right in front of our eyes and not try to do anything about it until it is too late.

    every day that goes by that we do nothing about the insurrection and the big lie, the more true it becomes.

    I hate to say it... I mean I really hate to say it, but I can see this all unfolding in the coming years.  Not too many years ago, I wouldn't have believed it.  But after that last nearly 5 years of watching an ever increasing number of Americans turn in support of the most vapid, disgusting to hold a high level in office, it's gone beyond disbelief to near despair.  Even if we somehow manage to avoid this potential disaster, those people will still be out there, and if they lose they will be more rabid than ever.  I hate to sound so negative, but I don't see how this can turn out well, let alone anything but catastrophic.  How in the holy hell, when we were once relatively great, did we get to this place? 
    But we have to think beyond despair and act.  All of us who cherishes the idea of a democratic society needs to show up in the coming years and at the very least vote these fuckers out.  And we need to encourage moderates to fight back as well.  I'm hoping moderate Republicans such as the Lincoln Project folks will work to stem the toxic tide of the far Trump right.  And those of us who are Dems need to get our fellow Democrats to show up at every election.
    another problem is the gop is in lockstep. there are no moderate republicans. moderates are accused of being left wingers. the dems have people like andrew yang leaving the party to start a 3rd party that is only going to hurt democrats.

    i am so fucking angry that we worked so hard to defeat trump and the gop and 2 fucking democratic senators are standing in the way of sweeping legislation that could change the country for generations. and 2 fucking people are standing in the way of the will of the majority of americans. they are making the dems look weak. making biden look weak. and making trump look like a strongman. sadly, strongmen appeal to morons, which is why we see what we got on 1/6.
    There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway

    "Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,237
    both parties REQUIRE independent voters to put them in office. period.
    independents are the plurality here with some 43%plus registered as such.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • static111static111 Posts: 2,960
    edited October 13
    I fear that as far as the totalitarians are concerned, they speak in the language of punishment and stern penalties.  If the non totalitarian party doesn’t speak to them in their language I fear that the extreme wing of the GOP will come sweeping into power.  I don’t condone violence, but I really think playing hardball and winning is the only way to deal with this scourge.  As we’ve seen the other side is not afraid to weaponize police and speak with targeted violence, especially when they are in power.  

    I really worry that the moderates and Dems will wait until the first shot is fired before they start taking swift action and then it will potentially be too late.  I just don’t see this extremism being voted away.  Better make sure the family passports are up to date.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 35,647
    static111 said:
    I fear that as far as the totalitarians are concerned, they speak in the language of punishment and stern penalties.  If the non totalitarian party doesn’t speak to them in their language I fear that the extreme wing of the GOP will come sweeping into power.  I don’t condone violence, but I really think playing hardball and winning is the only way to deal with this scourge.  As we’ve seen the other side is not afraid to weaponize police and speak with targeted violence, especially when they are in power.  

    I really worry that the moderates and Dems will wait until the first shot is fired before they start taking swift action and then it will potentially be too late.  I just don’t see this extremism being voted away.  Better make sure the family passports are up to date.

    We are not going to stop the right wing crazies by facing off with them with guns.  We need to stop them by using these more sophisticated weapons:
    All You Need To Know About the 10 Percent Brain Myth in 60 Seconds  WIREDOf pen and paper  Adia Kibur Accessories

    Surface Laptop Go review - Pocket-lint
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 18,825
    edited October 13
    brianlux said:
    mickeyrat said:
    loath to promote his smugness bit sometimes he is just on point..



    i haven't watched him in a long time. he is pretty on point here. and because we are democrats we will watch this slowly happen right in front of our eyes and not try to do anything about it until it is too late.

    every day that goes by that we do nothing about the insurrection and the big lie, the more true it becomes.

    I hate to say it... I mean I really hate to say it, but I can see this all unfolding in the coming years.  Not too many years ago, I wouldn't have believed it.  But after that last nearly 5 years of watching an ever increasing number of Americans turn in support of the most vapid, disgusting to hold a high level in office, it's gone beyond disbelief to near despair.  Even if we somehow manage to avoid this potential disaster, those people will still be out there, and if they lose they will be more rabid than ever.  I hate to sound so negative, but I don't see how this can turn out well, let alone anything but catastrophic.  How in the holy hell, when we were once relatively great, did we get to this place? 
    But we have to think beyond despair and act.  All of us who cherishes the idea of a democratic society needs to show up in the coming years and at the very least vote these fuckers out.  And we need to encourage moderates to fight back as well.  I'm hoping moderate Republicans such as the Lincoln Project folks will work to stem the toxic tide of the far Trump right.  And those of us who are Dems need to get our fellow Democrats to show up at every election.
    I know you're older than dirt, but America has never been even relatively great for me. We've been stuck at this place for at least my entire lifetime. It's not entering a phase of white nationalism because it's always been a white nationalist country. The Trump presidency compounded with the pandemic just brought it to light and reinforced that many are willing to forgo democracy for totalitarianism if it means that we can remain a white nationalist country.

    I'm not entirely sure that's a bad thing. 

    A lot of heads have come out of the sand and realized that they live in a broken, inequitable, and frankly stupid nation, regardless of their own privilege, wealth, and education. I know that wokeness is frowned upon by just about everyone these days, but I think that those who were not woke prior to Trump's campaign/presidency compounded by the pandemic certainly are now. Anecdotally, I've seen it happen in my own household.

    So what's the path forward? More divisiveness? Or a road to repair? 

    No clue.

    We've got our passports up to date, though, and my office has locations in many more well-run, equitable, and intelligent nations than the one we currently live in. The better half is still working toward that road to repair. That's her actual job. She is a federally funded policy wonk. Me, I usually just tell her that Americans aren't worth her time and effort and that we should GTFO.

    We've both done the math here; we just have different solutions.

    Again, no clue which is the correct one. 
    Post edited by dankind on
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • static111static111 Posts: 2,960
    brianlux said:
    static111 said:
    I fear that as far as the totalitarians are concerned, they speak in the language of punishment and stern penalties.  If the non totalitarian party doesn’t speak to them in their language I fear that the extreme wing of the GOP will come sweeping into power.  I don’t condone violence, but I really think playing hardball and winning is the only way to deal with this scourge.  As we’ve seen the other side is not afraid to weaponize police and speak with targeted violence, especially when they are in power.  

    I really worry that the moderates and Dems will wait until the first shot is fired before they start taking swift action and then it will potentially be too late.  I just don’t see this extremism being voted away.  Better make sure the family passports are up to date.

    We are not going to stop the right wing crazies by facing off with them with guns.  We need to stop them by using these more sophisticated weapons:
    All You Need To Know About the 10 Percent Brain Myth in 60 Seconds  WIREDOf pen and paper  Adia Kibur Accessories

    Surface Laptop Go review - Pocket-lint
    Unfortunately a hammer can smash all of the subtleties that those weapons provide.
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 35,647
    dankind said:
    brianlux said:
    mickeyrat said:
    loath to promote his smugness bit sometimes he is just on point..



    i haven't watched him in a long time. he is pretty on point here. and because we are democrats we will watch this slowly happen right in front of our eyes and not try to do anything about it until it is too late.

    every day that goes by that we do nothing about the insurrection and the big lie, the more true it becomes.

    I hate to say it... I mean I really hate to say it, but I can see this all unfolding in the coming years.  Not too many years ago, I wouldn't have believed it.  But after that last nearly 5 years of watching an ever increasing number of Americans turn in support of the most vapid, disgusting to hold a high level in office, it's gone beyond disbelief to near despair.  Even if we somehow manage to avoid this potential disaster, those people will still be out there, and if they lose they will be more rabid than ever.  I hate to sound so negative, but I don't see how this can turn out well, let alone anything but catastrophic.  How in the holy hell, when we were once relatively great, did we get to this place? 
    But we have to think beyond despair and act.  All of us who cherishes the idea of a democratic society needs to show up in the coming years and at the very least vote these fuckers out.  And we need to encourage moderates to fight back as well.  I'm hoping moderate Republicans such as the Lincoln Project folks will work to stem the toxic tide of the far Trump right.  And those of us who are Dems need to get our fellow Democrats to show up at every election.
    I know you're older than dirt, but America has never been even relatively great for me. We've been stuck at this place for at least my entire lifetime. It's not entering a phase of white nationalism because it's always been a white nationalist country. The Trump presidency compounded with the pandemic just brought it to light and reinforced that many are willing to forgo democracy for totalitarianism if it means that we can remain a white nationalist country.

    I'm not entirely sure that's a bad thing. 

    A lot of heads have come out of the sand and realized that they live in a broken, inequitable, and frankly stupid nation, regardless of their own privilege, wealth, and education. I know that wokeness is frowned upon by just about everyone these days, but I think that those who were not woke prior to Trump's campaign/presidency compounded by the pandemic certainly are now. Anecdotally, I've seen it happen in my own household.

    So what's the path forward? More divisiveness? Or a road to repair? 

    No clue.

    We've got our passports up to date, though, and my office has locations in many more well-run, equitable, and intelligent nations than the one we currently live in. The better half is still working toward that road to repair. That's her actual job. She is a federally funded policy wonk. Me, I usually just tell her that Americans aren't worth her time and effort and that we should GTFO.

    We've both done the math here; we just have different solutions.

    Again, no clue which is the correct one. 

    Yes, we certainly have had a number of shameful events in the U.S. like the McCarthy blacklisting era, the Cuban Missile Crisis, Vietnam, Trump, etc.  I guess for me it's about being disappointed that the hope many of us boomers had for a better country and a better world did not come to fruition. 
    That's one of the reasons I don't fully buy the notion of a "woke" generation.  I am very concerned that the same thing will happen with them that happened with boomers.  Boomers went from young and idealistic to self-involvement with careers and mortgages.  And I'm not trying to puff myself up and impress anyone with how supposedly great I am, but I have always found myself more focused on the issues that plague us than the average person and have always wished more people would get involved.  When, for example, my generation moved past things like anti-war protests and marching for the women's movement and became more interested in the pursuit of Club Med vacations and hot tubs, some of us were more interested in learning about ecodefense, resistance, and living more simply.  So I have to wonder, which road will the woke generation take?

    If I weren't "older than dirt" (lol) I would seriously be looking at moving to another country.  There are too many days lately where just getting out of bed is enough of a challenge.  I'm seeing the expiration date on my label approaching at a convergence with a catastrophic decline in civility in this nation and I will be to damn old to move away and avoid the implosion.  The old and the weak will be rapidly culled.  I would highly suggest the young focus and making plans to carry on.
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • dankinddankind I am not your foot. Posts: 18,825
    brianlux said:
    dankind said:
    brianlux said:
    mickeyrat said:
    loath to promote his smugness bit sometimes he is just on point..



    i haven't watched him in a long time. he is pretty on point here. and because we are democrats we will watch this slowly happen right in front of our eyes and not try to do anything about it until it is too late.

    every day that goes by that we do nothing about the insurrection and the big lie, the more true it becomes.

    I hate to say it... I mean I really hate to say it, but I can see this all unfolding in the coming years.  Not too many years ago, I wouldn't have believed it.  But after that last nearly 5 years of watching an ever increasing number of Americans turn in support of the most vapid, disgusting to hold a high level in office, it's gone beyond disbelief to near despair.  Even if we somehow manage to avoid this potential disaster, those people will still be out there, and if they lose they will be more rabid than ever.  I hate to sound so negative, but I don't see how this can turn out well, let alone anything but catastrophic.  How in the holy hell, when we were once relatively great, did we get to this place? 
    But we have to think beyond despair and act.  All of us who cherishes the idea of a democratic society needs to show up in the coming years and at the very least vote these fuckers out.  And we need to encourage moderates to fight back as well.  I'm hoping moderate Republicans such as the Lincoln Project folks will work to stem the toxic tide of the far Trump right.  And those of us who are Dems need to get our fellow Democrats to show up at every election.
    I know you're older than dirt, but America has never been even relatively great for me. We've been stuck at this place for at least my entire lifetime. It's not entering a phase of white nationalism because it's always been a white nationalist country. The Trump presidency compounded with the pandemic just brought it to light and reinforced that many are willing to forgo democracy for totalitarianism if it means that we can remain a white nationalist country.

    I'm not entirely sure that's a bad thing. 

    A lot of heads have come out of the sand and realized that they live in a broken, inequitable, and frankly stupid nation, regardless of their own privilege, wealth, and education. I know that wokeness is frowned upon by just about everyone these days, but I think that those who were not woke prior to Trump's campaign/presidency compounded by the pandemic certainly are now. Anecdotally, I've seen it happen in my own household.

    So what's the path forward? More divisiveness? Or a road to repair? 

    No clue.

    We've got our passports up to date, though, and my office has locations in many more well-run, equitable, and intelligent nations than the one we currently live in. The better half is still working toward that road to repair. That's her actual job. She is a federally funded policy wonk. Me, I usually just tell her that Americans aren't worth her time and effort and that we should GTFO.

    We've both done the math here; we just have different solutions.

    Again, no clue which is the correct one. 

    Yes, we certainly have had a number of shameful events in the U.S. like the McCarthy blacklisting era, the Cuban Missile Crisis, Vietnam, Trump, etc.  I guess for me it's about being disappointed that the hope many of us boomers had for a better country and a better world did not come to fruition. 
    That's one of the reasons I don't fully buy the notion of a "woke" generation.  I am very concerned that the same thing will happen with them that happened with boomers.  Boomers went from young and idealistic to self-involvement with careers and mortgages.  And I'm not trying to puff myself up and impress anyone with how supposedly great I am, but I have always found myself more focused on the issues that plague us than the average person and have always wished more people would get involved.  When, for example, my generation moved past things like anti-war protests and marching for the women's movement and became more interested in the pursuit of Club Med vacations and hot tubs, some of us were more interested in learning about ecodefense, resistance, and living more simply.  So I have to wonder, which road will the woke generation take?

    If I weren't "older than dirt" (lol) I would seriously be looking at moving to another country.  There are too many days lately where just getting out of bed is enough of a challenge.  I'm seeing the expiration date on my label approaching at a convergence with a catastrophic decline in civility in this nation and I will be to damn old to move away and avoid the implosion.  The old and the weak will be rapidly culled.  I would highly suggest the young focus and making plans to carry on.
    Sometimes, I reread my posts, and I think I may come across as overly pessimistic, but for now, I do have faith in the younger generations. Most of my global company is staffed by whippersnappers, and in the short time I've been there, they have championed and successfully implemented so many progressive causes within the company, a company that has a history of being quite conservative on the political spectrum.

    And I'm seeing the same things at companies with which we work. It's hard to say or even fathom, but in my experience, corporations are leading the way on this one. What we need is for government entities to catch up.

    It's gotta feel odd to go to work and be accepted, included, accommodated, and then at five o'clock, you step out the door into America, where no one gives a shit about you, or worse, they just plain hate you.
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 35,647
    dankind said:
    brianlux said:
    dankind said:
    brianlux said:
    mickeyrat said:
    loath to promote his smugness bit sometimes he is just on point..



    i haven't watched him in a long time. he is pretty on point here. and because we are democrats we will watch this slowly happen right in front of our eyes and not try to do anything about it until it is too late.

    every day that goes by that we do nothing about the insurrection and the big lie, the more true it becomes.

    I hate to say it... I mean I really hate to say it, but I can see this all unfolding in the coming years.  Not too many years ago, I wouldn't have believed it.  But after that last nearly 5 years of watching an ever increasing number of Americans turn in support of the most vapid, disgusting to hold a high level in office, it's gone beyond disbelief to near despair.  Even if we somehow manage to avoid this potential disaster, those people will still be out there, and if they lose they will be more rabid than ever.  I hate to sound so negative, but I don't see how this can turn out well, let alone anything but catastrophic.  How in the holy hell, when we were once relatively great, did we get to this place? 
    But we have to think beyond despair and act.  All of us who cherishes the idea of a democratic society needs to show up in the coming years and at the very least vote these fuckers out.  And we need to encourage moderates to fight back as well.  I'm hoping moderate Republicans such as the Lincoln Project folks will work to stem the toxic tide of the far Trump right.  And those of us who are Dems need to get our fellow Democrats to show up at every election.
    I know you're older than dirt, but America has never been even relatively great for me. We've been stuck at this place for at least my entire lifetime. It's not entering a phase of white nationalism because it's always been a white nationalist country. The Trump presidency compounded with the pandemic just brought it to light and reinforced that many are willing to forgo democracy for totalitarianism if it means that we can remain a white nationalist country.

    I'm not entirely sure that's a bad thing. 

    A lot of heads have come out of the sand and realized that they live in a broken, inequitable, and frankly stupid nation, regardless of their own privilege, wealth, and education. I know that wokeness is frowned upon by just about everyone these days, but I think that those who were not woke prior to Trump's campaign/presidency compounded by the pandemic certainly are now. Anecdotally, I've seen it happen in my own household.

    So what's the path forward? More divisiveness? Or a road to repair? 

    No clue.

    We've got our passports up to date, though, and my office has locations in many more well-run, equitable, and intelligent nations than the one we currently live in. The better half is still working toward that road to repair. That's her actual job. She is a federally funded policy wonk. Me, I usually just tell her that Americans aren't worth her time and effort and that we should GTFO.

    We've both done the math here; we just have different solutions.

    Again, no clue which is the correct one. 

    Yes, we certainly have had a number of shameful events in the U.S. like the McCarthy blacklisting era, the Cuban Missile Crisis, Vietnam, Trump, etc.  I guess for me it's about being disappointed that the hope many of us boomers had for a better country and a better world did not come to fruition. 
    That's one of the reasons I don't fully buy the notion of a "woke" generation.  I am very concerned that the same thing will happen with them that happened with boomers.  Boomers went from young and idealistic to self-involvement with careers and mortgages.  And I'm not trying to puff myself up and impress anyone with how supposedly great I am, but I have always found myself more focused on the issues that plague us than the average person and have always wished more people would get involved.  When, for example, my generation moved past things like anti-war protests and marching for the women's movement and became more interested in the pursuit of Club Med vacations and hot tubs, some of us were more interested in learning about ecodefense, resistance, and living more simply.  So I have to wonder, which road will the woke generation take?

    If I weren't "older than dirt" (lol) I would seriously be looking at moving to another country.  There are too many days lately where just getting out of bed is enough of a challenge.  I'm seeing the expiration date on my label approaching at a convergence with a catastrophic decline in civility in this nation and I will be to damn old to move away and avoid the implosion.  The old and the weak will be rapidly culled.  I would highly suggest the young focus and making plans to carry on.
    Sometimes, I reread my posts, and I think I may come across as overly pessimistic, but for now, I do have faith in the younger generations. Most of my global company is staffed by whippersnappers, and in the short time I've been there, they have championed and successfully implemented so many progressive causes within the company, a company that has a history of being quite conservative on the political spectrum.

    And I'm seeing the same things at companies with which we work. It's hard to say or even fathom, but in my experience, corporations are leading the way on this one. What we need is for government entities to catch up.

    It's gotta feel odd to go to work and be accepted, included, accommodated, and then at five o'clock, you step out the door into America, where no one gives a shit about you, or worse, they just plain hate you.

    Having faith in younger generations is a good thing and I appreciate that reminder.  They are our best hope.
    "I believe in the mystery, and I don't want to take it any further than that. Maybe what I mean by that is love."
    -John Densmore











  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 23,314
    Is economic equity the appropriate or right goal? I've never been convinced that it is.  I know it's a conservative mantra,  but this liberal believes that equity of opportunities,  not equity of outcomes is the appropriate goal.  

    The standard of living has only improved in this country,  unabated,  since its inception.  That is a good thing.  

    None of this means I don't believe in the progressive tax system,  that we should expand social programs,  or that the disadvantaged youth should have better education support.  They absolutely should.  This means we tweak our system,  nott blow it up.  

    I've worked my ass off my whole life and came from a poor immigrant family where my dad never finished the 8th grade.  I certainly do not think someone who has had the same opportunities should have the same outcomes as me just because they live where I do.
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,237
    mrussel1 said:
    Is economic equity the appropriate or right goal? I've never been convinced that it is.  I know it's a conservative mantra,  but this liberal believes that equity of opportunities,  not equity of outcomes is the appropriate goal.  

    The standard of living has only improved in this country,  unabated,  since its inception.  That is a good thing.  

    None of this means I don't believe in the progressive tax system,  that we should expand social programs,  or that the disadvantaged youth should have better education support.  They absolutely should.  This means we tweak our system,  nott blow it up.  

    I've worked my ass off my whole life and came from a poor immigrant family where my dad never finished the 8th grade.  I certainly do not think someone who has had the same opportunities should have the same outcomes as me just because they live where I do.

    your ladt paragraph is incomplete.

    .....unless they put the same work in.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 23,314
    edited October 13
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Is economic equity the appropriate or right goal? I've never been convinced that it is.  I know it's a conservative mantra,  but this liberal believes that equity of opportunities,  not equity of outcomes is the appropriate goal.  

    The standard of living has only improved in this country,  unabated,  since its inception.  That is a good thing.  

    None of this means I don't believe in the progressive tax system,  that we should expand social programs,  or that the disadvantaged youth should have better education support.  They absolutely should.  This means we tweak our system,  nott blow it up.  

    I've worked my ass off my whole life and came from a poor immigrant family where my dad never finished the 8th grade.  I certainly do not think someone who has had the same opportunities should have the same outcomes as me just because they live where I do.

    your ladt paragraph is incomplete.

    .....unless they put the same work in.
    How do you evaluate such a thing? You can't pretend some work isn't more valuable than other work based on the required education,  competition and value creation. 
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 23,237
    mrussel1 said:
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Is economic equity the appropriate or right goal? I've never been convinced that it is.  I know it's a conservative mantra,  but this liberal believes that equity of opportunities,  not equity of outcomes is the appropriate goal.  

    The standard of living has only improved in this country,  unabated,  since its inception.  That is a good thing.  

    None of this means I don't believe in the progressive tax system,  that we should expand social programs,  or that the disadvantaged youth should have better education support.  They absolutely should.  This means we tweak our system,  nott blow it up.  

    I've worked my ass off my whole life and came from a poor immigrant family where my dad never finished the 8th grade.  I certainly do not think someone who has had the same opportunities should have the same outcomes as me just because they live where I do.

    your ladt paragraph is incomplete.

    .....unless they put the same work in.
    How do you evaluate such a thing? You can't pretend some work isn't more valuable than other work based on the required education,  competition and value creation. 

    thats the point. given the same opportunites and applying themselves in a similar way to your path, shouldnt garner similar outcome?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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