A carpetbagger, you don’t say? Someone oughta ask Maggie Three Names how she feels about that.
how can this easily be changed? does she have to move away from Rifle?
this is what happens when people are deeply unpopular. hopefully people in the 4th will be reminded of the "handy of destiny" every day leading up to the election and vote accordingly.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
Nikki Haley is disqualified in my mind. Her answer on the Civil War is a total disgrace.
She said the following in her 2011 inaugural address:
"Of course, when talking about our past, it would be wrong to mention our greatness during the revolutionary period without noting the ugliness of much that followed. The horrors of slavery and discrimination need not be retold here. They too remain a part of our history and a part of the fabric of our lives."
What changed in the last 13 years where she doesn't want to say the word slavery? It went from "a part of the fabric of our lives" to not even worth mentioning.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,501
Nikki Haley is disqualified in my mind. Her answer on the Civil War is a total disgrace.
She said the following in her 2011 inaugural address:
"Of course, when talking about our past, it would be wrong to mention our greatness during the revolutionary period without noting the ugliness of much that followed. The horrors of slavery and discrimination need not be retold here. They too remain a part of our history and a part of the fabric of our lives."
What changed in the last 13 years where she doesn't want to say the word slavery? It went from "a part of the fabric of our lives" to not even worth mentioning.
Nikki Haley is disqualified in my mind. Her answer on the Civil War is a total disgrace.
She said the following in her 2011 inaugural address:
"Of course, when talking about our past, it would be wrong to mention our greatness during the revolutionary period without noting the ugliness of much that followed. The horrors of slavery and discrimination need not be retold here. They too remain a part of our history and a part of the fabric of our lives."
What changed in the last 13 years where she doesn't want to say the word slavery? It went from "a part of the fabric of our lives" to not even worth mentioning.
I thought the statement above was made after she made a similarly squishy statement about the War previously.
Nikki Haley is disqualified in my mind. Her answer on the Civil War is a total disgrace.
She said the following in her 2011 inaugural address:
"Of course, when talking about our past, it would be wrong to mention our greatness during the revolutionary period without noting the ugliness of much that followed. The horrors of slavery and discrimination need not be retold here. They too remain a part of our history and a part of the fabric of our lives."
What changed in the last 13 years where she doesn't want to say the word slavery? It went from "a part of the fabric of our lives" to not even worth mentioning.
I thought the statement above was made after she made a similarly squishy statement about the War previously.
Maybe that was included due to a prior conversation / gaffe. (it's almost worded as if that's the case, so you could be on to something)
Nikki Haley is disqualified in my mind. Her answer on the Civil War is a total disgrace.
She said the following in her 2011 inaugural address:
"Of course, when talking about our past, it would be wrong to mention our greatness during the revolutionary period without noting the ugliness of much that followed. The horrors of slavery and discrimination need not be retold here. They too remain a part of our history and a part of the fabric of our lives."
What changed in the last 13 years where she doesn't want to say the word slavery? It went from "a part of the fabric of our lives" to not even worth mentioning.
what changed? maga, and the maga snowflakes that refuse to admit the reason.
There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self.- Hemingway
A carpetbagger, you don’t say? Someone oughta ask Maggie Three Names how she feels about that.
how can this easily be changed? does she have to move away from Rifle?
this is what happens when people are deeply unpopular. hopefully people in the 4th will be reminded of the "handy of destiny" every day leading up to the election and vote accordingly.
not sure if its Co specific or national but at least in Co you dont have to live in the district. Just have to be in state.....
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,501
A carpetbagger, you don’t say? Someone oughta ask Maggie Three Names how she feels about that.
how can this easily be changed? does she have to move away from Rifle?
this is what happens when people are deeply unpopular. hopefully people in the 4th will be reminded of the "handy of destiny" every day leading up to the election and vote accordingly.
not sure if its Co specific or national but at least in Co you dont have to live in the district. Just have to be in state.....
I think she is moving despite not having to do so. Either way, it's such an insult to people who live in both districts.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,379
Nikki Haley acknowledges Civil War ‘about slavery’ after facing backlash By Meryl Kornfield and Maegan Vazquez December 28, 2023 at 11:02 ET Nikki Haley on Thursday acknowledged the Civil War was “about slavery,” after facing swift criticism for making no mention of it when asked about the cause of the conflict at a town hall. “Of course the Civil War was about slavery. We know that. That’s the easy part of it,” the Republican presidential candidate said on “The Pulse of NH,” a local radio show. “I want to nip it in the bud. Yes, we know the Civil War was about slavery. But more than that, what’s the lesson in all this?” she added. “That freedom matters. And individual rights and liberties matter for all people. That’s the blessing of America. That was a stain on America when we had slavery. But what we want is never relive it. Never let anyone take those freedoms away again.” Scholars agree slavery was the main driver of the Civil War. But Haley, a former U.N. ambassador and South Carolina governor, did not mention it in a lengthy exchange Wednesday evening. Haley on Thursday also accused the man who asked her the question at Wednesday’s event of being a Democratic plant. The audience member who asked the question declined to share his name or party affiliation with reporters at the event. “What was the cause of the United States Civil War?” the man asked Haley on Wednesday evening in Berlin, N.H. She replied, “Well, don’t come with an easy question.” Then she proceeded to answer. “I think the cause of the Civil War was basically how government was going to run, the freedoms and what people could and couldn’t do,” Haley said. “I think it always comes down to the role of government and what the rights of the people are,” Haley added. “And I will always stand by the fact that I think government was intended to secure the rights and freedoms of the people. It was never meant to be all things to all people. Government doesn’t need to tell you how to live your life. They don’t need to tell you what you can and can’t do. They don’t need to be a part of your life.” The questioner expressed surprise at Haley’s response. She also faced swift criticism from President Biden and others. At a town hall in North Conway on Thursday, Bill Anderson, who plans to vote for Haley and has donated to her campaign, sat in a crowded high school library, expecting to hear more from Haley about the role slavery played in the start of the Civil War. He read about her answer from the night before and said he didn’t hold it against her that she left out mentioning slavery. “I don’t expect her to be perfect,” he said.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Nikki Haley acknowledges Civil War ‘about slavery’ after facing backlash By Meryl Kornfield and Maegan Vazquez December 28, 2023 at 11:02 ET Nikki Haley on Thursday acknowledged the Civil War was “about slavery,” after facing swift criticism for making no mention of it when asked about the cause of the conflict at a town hall. “Of course the Civil War was about slavery. We know that. That’s the easy part of it,” the Republican presidential candidate said on “The Pulse of NH,” a local radio show. “I want to nip it in the bud. Yes, we know the Civil War was about slavery. But more than that, what’s the lesson in all this?” she added. “That freedom matters. And individual rights and liberties matter for all people. That’s the blessing of America. That was a stain on America when we had slavery. But what we want is never relive it. Never let anyone take those freedoms away again.” Scholars agree slavery was the main driver of the Civil War. But Haley, a former U.N. ambassador and South Carolina governor, did not mention it in a lengthy exchange Wednesday evening. Haley on Thursday also accused the man who asked her the question at Wednesday’s event of being a Democratic plant. The audience member who asked the question declined to share his name or party affiliation with reporters at the event. “What was the cause of the United States Civil War?” the man asked Haley on Wednesday evening in Berlin, N.H. She replied, “Well, don’t come with an easy question.” Then she proceeded to answer. “I think the cause of the Civil War was basically how government was going to run, the freedoms and what people could and couldn’t do,” Haley said. “I think it always comes down to the role of government and what the rights of the people are,” Haley added. “And I will always stand by the fact that I think government was intended to secure the rights and freedoms of the people. It was never meant to be all things to all people. Government doesn’t need to tell you how to live your life. They don’t need to tell you what you can and can’t do. They don’t need to be a part of your life.” The questioner expressed surprise at Haley’s response. She also faced swift criticism from President Biden and others. At a town hall in North Conway on Thursday, Bill Anderson, who plans to vote for Haley and has donated to her campaign, sat in a crowded high school library, expecting to hear more from Haley about the role slavery played in the start of the Civil War. He read about her answer from the night before and said he didn’t hold it against her that she left out mentioning slavery. “I don’t expect her to be perfect,” he said.
a democratic plant with a softball question...yeah right
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
These aren't even subtle dog whistles; they are blatantly appealing to white supremacists; trump is literally using language from Mein Kampf and people are still trying to argue both sides are the same.
Our nation is so fucked.
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,501
These aren't even subtle dog whistles; they are blatantly appealing to white supremacists; trump is literally using language from Mein Kampf and people are still trying to argue both sides are the same.
Our nation is so fucked.
Agreed. I'm a little surprised we haven't seem the usual suspects tin here try to bothsides this yet today
A carpetbagger, you don’t say? Someone oughta ask Maggie Three Names how she feels about that.
how can this easily be changed? does she have to move away from Rifle?
this is what happens when people are deeply unpopular. hopefully people in the 4th will be reminded of the "handy of destiny" every day leading up to the election and vote accordingly.
not sure if its Co specific or national but at least in Co you dont have to live in the district. Just have to be in state.....
I think she is moving despite not having to do so. Either way, it's such an insult to people who live in both districts.
If I were in the current district, I'd feel a bit of pride about moving in the right direction.
If I was in the new district, I'd feel like she's using us to assure that she can continue to take her talk-show-based-persona to Washington. And also embarrassed that it will probably work.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine 2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
A carpetbagger, you don’t say? Someone oughta ask Maggie Three Names how she feels about that.
how can this easily be changed? does she have to move away from Rifle?
this is what happens when people are deeply unpopular. hopefully people in the 4th will be reminded of the "handy of destiny" every day leading up to the election and vote accordingly.
not sure if its Co specific or national but at least in Co you dont have to live in the district. Just have to be in state.....
I think she is moving despite not having to do so. Either way, it's such an insult to people who live in both districts.
If I were in the current district, I'd feel a bit of pride about moving in the right direction.
If I was in the new district, I'd feel like she's using us to assure that she can continue to take her talk-show-based-persona to Washington. And also embarrassed that it will probably work.
The attack ads will be stellar....her jerking that dude off at the play, etc.
Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago 2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy 2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE) 2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston 2020: Oakland, Oakland:2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana 2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville 2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
A carpetbagger, you don’t say? Someone oughta ask Maggie Three Names how she feels about that.
how can this easily be changed? does she have to move away from Rifle?
this is what happens when people are deeply unpopular. hopefully people in the 4th will be reminded of the "handy of destiny" every day leading up to the election and vote accordingly.
not sure if its Co specific or national but at least in Co you dont have to live in the district. Just have to be in state.....
I think she is moving despite not having to do so. Either way, it's such an insult to people who live in both districts.
If I were in the current district, I'd feel a bit of pride about moving in the right direction.
If I was in the new district, I'd feel like she's using us to assure that she can continue to take her talk-show-based-persona to Washington. And also embarrassed that it will probably work.
The story I read about her changing districts said the one she will be moving to voted in favor of Trump by 20% in 2020. They will embrace her as one of their own.
Post edited by JeBurkhardt on
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The Juggler
Behind that bush over there. Posts: 47,501
A carpetbagger, you don’t say? Someone oughta ask Maggie Three Names how she feels about that.
how can this easily be changed? does she have to move away from Rifle?
this is what happens when people are deeply unpopular. hopefully people in the 4th will be reminded of the "handy of destiny" every day leading up to the election and vote accordingly.
not sure if its Co specific or national but at least in Co you dont have to live in the district. Just have to be in state.....
I think she is moving despite not having to do so. Either way, it's such an insult to people who live in both districts.
If I were in the current district, I'd feel a bit of pride about moving in the right direction.
If I was in the new district, I'd feel like she's using us to assure that she can continue to take her talk-show-based-persona to Washington. And also embarrassed that it will probably work.
I'd be pissed if I lived in her current district. I want the chance to evict her from her seat.
These aren't even subtle dog whistles; they are blatantly appealing to white supremacists; trump is literally using language from Mein Kampf and people are still trying to argue both sides are the same.
Our nation is so fucked.
Agreed. I'm a little surprised we haven't seem the usual suspects tin here try to bothsides this yet today
I can stand in.
Have you seen this picture of Hillary and Robert Byrd? Check and mate!
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,379
A carpetbagger, you don’t say? Someone oughta ask Maggie Three Names how she feels about that.
how can this easily be changed? does she have to move away from Rifle?
this is what happens when people are deeply unpopular. hopefully people in the 4th will be reminded of the "handy of destiny" every day leading up to the election and vote accordingly.
not sure if its Co specific or national but at least in Co you dont have to live in the district. Just have to be in state.....
I think she is moving despite not having to do so. Either way, it's such an insult to people who live in both districts.
If I were in the current district, I'd feel a bit of pride about moving in the right direction.
If I was in the new district, I'd feel like she's using us to assure that she can continue to take her talk-show-based-persona to Washington. And also embarrassed that it will probably work.
The story I read about her changing districts said the one she will be moving to voted in favor of Trump by 20% in 2020. They will embrace her as one of their own.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,379
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,379
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
0
Options
mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,379
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
0
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 36,379
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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Kat
There's a lot to be said for nowhere. Posts: 4,780
Comments
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
Brilliantati©
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
this is what happens when people are deeply unpopular. hopefully people in the 4th will be reminded of the "handy of destiny" every day leading up to the election and vote accordingly.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Of course, when talking about our past, it would be wrong to mention our greatness during the revolutionary period without noting the ugliness of much that followed. The horrors of slavery and discrimination need not be retold here. They too remain a part of our history and a part of the fabric of our lives."
https://awpc.cattcenter.iastate.edu/2017/03/21/inaugural-address-jan-12-2011/
What changed in the last 13 years where she doesn't want to say the word slavery? It went from "a part of the fabric of our lives" to not even worth mentioning.
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
"Well, you tell him that I don't talk to suckas."
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
By Meryl Kornfield and Maegan Vazquez
December 28, 2023 at 11:02 ET
Nikki Haley on Thursday acknowledged the Civil War was “about slavery,” after facing swift criticism for making no mention of it when asked about the cause of the conflict at a town hall.
“Of course the Civil War was about slavery. We know that. That’s the easy part of it,” the Republican presidential candidate said on “The Pulse of NH,” a local radio show.
“I want to nip it in the bud. Yes, we know the Civil War was about slavery. But more than that, what’s the lesson in all this?” she added. “That freedom matters. And individual rights and liberties matter for all people. That’s the blessing of America. That was a stain on America when we had slavery. But what we want is never relive it. Never let anyone take those freedoms away again.”
Scholars agree slavery was the main driver of the Civil War. But Haley, a former U.N. ambassador and South Carolina governor, did not mention it in a lengthy exchange Wednesday evening.
Haley on Thursday also accused the man who asked her the question at Wednesday’s event of being a Democratic plant. The audience member who asked the question declined to share his name or party affiliation with reporters at the event.
“What was the cause of the United States Civil War?” the man asked Haley on Wednesday evening in Berlin, N.H.
She replied, “Well, don’t come with an easy question.” Then she proceeded to answer.
“I think the cause of the Civil War was basically how government was going to run, the freedoms and what people could and couldn’t do,” Haley said.
“I think it always comes down to the role of government and what the rights of the people are,” Haley added. “And I will always stand by the fact that I think government was intended to secure the rights and freedoms of the people. It was never meant to be all things to all people. Government doesn’t need to tell you how to live your life. They don’t need to tell you what you can and can’t do. They don’t need to be a part of your life.”
The questioner expressed surprise at Haley’s response. She also faced swift criticism from President Biden and others.
At a town hall in North Conway on Thursday, Bill Anderson, who plans to vote for Haley and has donated to her campaign, sat in a crowded high school library, expecting to hear more from Haley about the role slavery played in the start of the Civil War. He read about her answer from the night before and said he didn’t hold it against her that she left out mentioning slavery.
“I don’t expect her to be perfect,” he said.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
Quite a point...
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
These aren't even subtle dog whistles; they are blatantly appealing to white supremacists; trump is literally using language from Mein Kampf and people are still trying to argue both sides are the same.
Our nation is so fucked.
If I was in the new district, I'd feel like she's using us to assure that she can continue to take her talk-show-based-persona to Washington. And also embarrassed that it will probably work.
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Chicago; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana
with like 6 other primary candidates......
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14