Tm changes refund policy

Zod

I think it's because the system is designed to scalp tickets.   All they did was changed the name and locked it to face value.

Under normal circumstances.  If a person sold a $100 ticket for $500, they're on the hook to pay it back if the show gets postponed.  In this case if it was a scalping event, TM is holding the money in case the buyer asks for a refund before the show is postponed.  TM doesn't want to be on the hook for $500 on a $120 ticket.  They hold the proceeds the seller received and wait for the the show to get rescheduled.

It makes sense.   The issue is they repurposed an existing system for the sale.  It comes off as a bit odd when it comes sell them at face, but makes more sense when you realize the system was originally designed for scalping.  Hopefully they ride out the kinks.

It definitely sucks... I'm looking forward to the shows getting rescheduled so I can try and get my spare pair of tickets into the hands of another 10c'er.

RatherStarved

Zod said:

I think it's because the system is designed to scalp tickets.   All they did was changed the name and locked it to face value.

Under normal circumstances.  If a person sold a $100 ticket for $500, they're on the hook to pay it back if the show gets postponed.  In this case if it was a scalping event, TM is holding the money in case the buyer asks for a refund before the show is postponed.  TM doesn't want to be on the hook for $500 on a $120 ticket.  They hold the proceeds the seller received and wait for the the show to get rescheduled.

It makes sense.   The issue is they repurposed an existing system for the sale.  It comes off as a bit odd when it comes sell them at face, but makes more sense when you realize the system was originally designed for scalping.  Hopefully they ride out the kinks.

It definitely sucks... I'm looking forward to the shows getting rescheduled so I can try and get my spare pair of tickets into the hands of another 10c'er.

Their design flaw is their problem.  There’s no excuse for what they’re doing.

CantKeepmedown

Has anybody talked to TM about the fan to fan sales and how they are justifying being double paid for tickets?

Gibson

JV267526 said:

kst said:

Withholding refunds is disgusting but at least in that instance the customer still has a ticket.  Withholding F2F payouts is unconscionable.  The seller has neither a ticket nor their money. That is completely outrageous.

I agree. The double dipping they are doing in F2F payout cases is literally criminal.

Somebody should take them to court (wink)...

but that seriously blows. I didn't realize F2F funds were being withheld, too.

JeBurkhardt

CantKeepmedown said:

Has anybody talked to TM about the fan to fan sales and how they are justifying being double paid for tickets?

I did via their online chat and they told me that it was in case the buyer wanted a refund. When I pressed them to ask why they should have two payments for one ticket, I basically got told "it is what it is". At that point I figured I was wasting my time. 

RS65573

I'm debating just stopping payment on the CC used. Thoughts?

SHZA

RS65573 said:

I'm debating just stopping payment on the CC used. Thoughts?

Used for what? F2F or standard purchase? I believe Ticketstoday is giving refunds for the 10c tickets. I'd think if there's no fraud a chargeback is a bad idea. 

RS65573

The credit card used on my initial purchase through 10club. Called TM, asked for refund, they said no, just filed dispute. These shows are never happening with GA.

jefft

RS65573 said:

The credit card used on my initial purchase through 10club. Called TM, asked for refund, they said no, just filed dispute. These shows are never happening with GA.

Why wont they happen withGA?

RS65573

Maybe with a cure, who knows, but I think odds are they will have to redraw even in best situation, and honestly I dont care, I am past caring about concerts, the #s today in NJ are terrifying.

mcgruff10

I understand you sold the tickets Michael, however we cannot release payments until the event is rescheduled or canceled. I'm sorry.

SHZA

RS65573 said:

The credit card used on my initial purchase through 10club. Called TM, asked for refund, they said no, just filed dispute. These shows are never happening with GA.

You're supposed to just reply to the Ticketstoday email to get a refund for 10c tickets.

LeafsJaysCubsRaptorsFan

mcgruff10 said:

I understand you sold the tickets Michael, however we cannot release payments until the event is rescheduled or canceled. I'm sorry.

Is that what tm told you? Wow that’s nuts

mcgruff10

LeafsJaysCubsRaptorsFan said:

mcgruff10 said:

I understand you sold the tickets Michael, however we cannot release payments until the event is rescheduled or canceled. I'm sorry.

Is that what tm told you? Wow that’s nuts

Yes sir. Word for word.  

jefft

RS65573 said:

Maybe with a cure, who knows, but I think odds are they will have to redraw even in best situation, and honestly I dont care, I am past caring about concerts, the #s today in NJ are terrifying.

I hear you the numbers are insane.  I hope everyone stays safe wherever  you are, and we can rock out sometime down the road when things go back to somewhat normal.  As for ga I get your close but I mean sitting or standing in the bleachers is not much different.

RatherStarved

LeafsJaysCubsRaptorsFan said:

mcgruff10 said:

I understand you sold the tickets Michael, however we cannot release payments until the event is rescheduled or canceled. I'm sorry.

Is that what tm told you? Wow that’s nuts

Same boat.

SHZA

I was actually able to request refunds for a couple standard ticket purchases for shows that have been postponed but not yet rescheduled - PJ Oak 2 and Rolling Stones. Others that have been postponed but no new date like Tool had no refund option. I also can't request a refund for Foo Fighters even though it's already been rescheduled. So it looks like it's an evolving situation.  

Sarava

A lot of people have gone from a normal middle class life, to desperate for cash to buy food, etc, all in the last 4-6 weeks. I'm lucky to not be one of them, but I feel terrible for anyone that really could use their money refunded right now.

SHZA

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/16/arts/music/aeg-presents-ticketmaster-refunds.html 

NY AG may be investigating; TM claims it hasn't changed policy. 

Zod

While the language might of used to be different, I was always under the impression it was up to the promoter (or whoever was running the show) as to what the policy was on postponed shows.  

Then again maybe TM wouldn't be getting so much flack if the lines weren't so blurred.   They are owned by LiveNation who is the biggest promoter, so while TM doesn't sit on the cash, a big chunk of it is probably in the hands of their parent company.

LeafsJaysCubsRaptorsFan

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/live-nation-ticketmaster-covid-19-1.5535213

Zod

I am a little curious as to what is done with the cash while it sits around waiting.   If many people are like me, and they're ok with waiting to find out the new dates, then only a percentage of tickets for every postponed show would be postponed.   Even if that turned out to be 50 to 70% you'd think they'd have the cash to make that happen (although there would be serious concerns whether or not the promoter could resell those tickets once rescheduled, making it tough to to pay the bands guarantee).

I wonder if they're trying to make extra money by investing the cash while they're sitting on it.   I realize they have overhead and costs, but I would expect them to still have enough cash to refund a large percentage of the tickets.   I'm trying to wrap my head around reasons they wouldn't be public with, about why the industry is being so guarded with the refunds.    Investing the cash could be a reason.   Then you'd see a big drop in available reserves to refund the tickets.

Weston1283

https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/touring/9360740/ticketmaster-preparing-refund-plan-for-thousands-of-postponed-shows

LeafsJaysCubsRaptorsFan

Weston1283 said:

https://www.billboard.com/articles/business/touring/9360740/ticketmaster-preparing-refund-plan-for-thousands-of-postponed-shows

Was just about to post this. Some interesting tidbits in there specifically about rescheduled shows starting to be announced on may 1. 

pjl44

As long as the fine print isn't janky, sign me up for the 150% credit

herogroundzero

it's gonna be a total cluster f when things gets rolling again. i had over 8 other shows booked with ticketbastard not including pj(3)

SHZA

pjl44 said:

As long as the fine print isn't janky, sign me up for the 150% credit

Yeah I don't think I can pass that up... There's gotta be shows at some point, right?? Even for shows you still want to attend, it's probably better to get the credit and then buy new tickets 

know1

A bigger concern for all of us holding tickets to the tour should be whether TicketMaster will even be in business a year from now when these shows might take place. 

Zod

know1 said:

A bigger concern for all of us holding tickets to the tour should be whether TicketMaster will even be in business a year from now when these shows might take place. 

I think TM will be.  They have cash reserves.  People seem to struggle to differentiate TM from Promoters (Even though TM is owned by a promoter).  Like Ebay, Stubhub, Credit Cards, etc.... TM earns money off their fee's.  Whether it's service charges on our concerts tickets, the fee's they charge to resell tickets, etc....   Sure it'll hurt them until concerts start back up, but I imagine they can slim down and ride it out on cash reserves.

I'm not sure how promoters will fair in all of this.   They probably spent a bunch of the concert revenues on things associated with running those concerts.   All that overhead with no income coming in.  

My conclusion:   I think bigger companies have bigger cash reserves and are in a better position to ride it out.    I think this is going to be extremely tough on whatever is left of small promoters and independent ticketing agencies.  We'll probably see more consolidation into the remaining big players :(

ddeschler

Live Nation owns Ticketmaster, and is a publicly traded corporation.  This conglomerate/monopoly is the largest player in the ticket game.  It's not going anywhere.  There will be live music someday, and Ticketmaster will be there to take all our money.  Don't worry about them, and don't feel bad for them for even a minute.