I was able to get a full refund from my flight for Air Canada to Europe. I called a friend that works for them after talking to their call centre with no luck. She looked over our booking and normally there was nothing that they would do but back in February they changed or arrival time back home 8 hours later. The cut off line for a change was Mar 19th. Because of this there was a stipulation that we could cancel for free. This has nothing to do with what is going on right now with the virus but thought maybe others could be in the same boat and if they will not refund or credit due to the virus maybe you had a change like I did on your flight and can use that stipulation.
Coronavirus: Will I get a refund on my ticket if events are cancelled?
Am I entitled to a full refund?
Generally,
if you bought your ticket for a cancelled event from an official
seller, you should be entitled to a refund, often automatically.
Using a credit card to buy something costing between £100 and £30,000
means you are legally entitled to a refund if you do not get what you
were promised.
Manchester 04.06.00, Leeds 25.08.06, Wembley 18.06.07, Dusseldorf 21.06.07, Shepherds Bush 11.08.09, Manchester 17.08.09, Adelaide 17.11.09, Melbourne 20.11.09, Sydney 22.11.09, Brisbane 25.11.09, MSG1 20.05.10, MSG2 21.05.10, Dublin 22.06.10, Belfast 23.06.10, London 25.06.10, Long Beach 06.07.11 (EV), Los Angeles 08.07.11 (EV), Toronto 11.09.11, Toronto 12.09.11, Ottawa 14.09.11, Hamilton 14.09.11, Manchester 20.06.12, Manchester 21.06.12, Amsterdam 26.06.2012, Amsterdam 27.06.2012, Berlin 04.07.12, Berlin 05.07.12, Stockholm 07.07.12, Oslo 09.07.12, Copenhagen 10.07.12, Manchester 28.07.12 (EV), Brooklyn 18.10.13, Brooklyn 19.10.13, Philly 21.10.13, Philly 22.10.13, San Diego 21.11.13, LA 23.11.13, LA 24.11.13, Oakland 26.11.13, Portland 29.11.13, Spokane 30.11.13, Calgary 02.12.13, Vancouver 04.12.13, Seattle 06.12.13, Trieste 22.06.14, Vienna 25.06.14, Berlin 26.06.14, Stockholm 28.06.14, Leeds 08.07.14, Philly 28.04.16, Philly 28.04.16, MSG1 01.05.16, MSG2 02.05.16
"No Refunds" will be a great song on the next album GREED-A-TON
PJ: San Francisco 12/31/91 Mountain View 7/18/92 Lollapalooza Mountain View 7/19/92 Lollapalooza Mountain View 11/1/92 Bridge School San Francisco 10/28/93 San Jose 10/30/93 Berkeley 10/31/93 Mountain View 10/2/94 Bridge School San Francisco 6/24/95 San Jose 11/4/95 Mountain View 10/20/96 Bridge School Oakland 11/15/97 Rolling Stones Mountain View 10/30/99 Bridge School Mountain View 10/31/00 Mountain View 6/1/03 San Francisco 7/15/06 San Francisco 7/16/06 San Francisco 7/18/06 Mountain View 10/22/06 Bridge School Honolulu 12/9/06 U2 Mountain View 10/23/10 Bridge School Mountain View 10/24/10 Bridge School Los Angeles 11/23/13 Oakland 11/26/13 Seattle 12/6/13 Denver 10/22/14 Mountain View 10/25/14 Bridge School Mexico City 11/28/15 Seattle 8/8/18 Seattle 8/10/18 Missoula 8/13/18 Chicago 8/18/18 Chicago 8/20/18 EV: Berkeley 4/7/08 Berkeley 4/8/08
"No Refunds" will be a great song on the next album GREED-A-TON
Oh ffs... did you even read the message (no refund right now) and the posts above concerning European law?!
Relax snowflake. It was a joke. I actually thought it was pretty funny.
PJ: San Francisco 12/31/91 Mountain View 7/18/92 Lollapalooza Mountain View 7/19/92 Lollapalooza Mountain View 11/1/92 Bridge School San Francisco 10/28/93 San Jose 10/30/93 Berkeley 10/31/93 Mountain View 10/2/94 Bridge School San Francisco 6/24/95 San Jose 11/4/95 Mountain View 10/20/96 Bridge School Oakland 11/15/97 Rolling Stones Mountain View 10/30/99 Bridge School Mountain View 10/31/00 Mountain View 6/1/03 San Francisco 7/15/06 San Francisco 7/16/06 San Francisco 7/18/06 Mountain View 10/22/06 Bridge School Honolulu 12/9/06 U2 Mountain View 10/23/10 Bridge School Mountain View 10/24/10 Bridge School Los Angeles 11/23/13 Oakland 11/26/13 Seattle 12/6/13 Denver 10/22/14 Mountain View 10/25/14 Bridge School Mexico City 11/28/15 Seattle 8/8/18 Seattle 8/10/18 Missoula 8/13/18 Chicago 8/18/18 Chicago 8/20/18 EV: Berkeley 4/7/08 Berkeley 4/8/08
"No Refunds" will be a great song on the next album GREED-A-TON
Oh ffs... did you even read the message (no refund right now) and the posts above concerning European law?!
Relax snowflake. It was a joke. I actually thought it was pretty funny.
Yeah right
So clever!
PJ: San Francisco 12/31/91 Mountain View 7/18/92 Lollapalooza Mountain View 7/19/92 Lollapalooza Mountain View 11/1/92 Bridge School San Francisco 10/28/93 San Jose 10/30/93 Berkeley 10/31/93 Mountain View 10/2/94 Bridge School San Francisco 6/24/95 San Jose 11/4/95 Mountain View 10/20/96 Bridge School Oakland 11/15/97 Rolling Stones Mountain View 10/30/99 Bridge School Mountain View 10/31/00 Mountain View 6/1/03 San Francisco 7/15/06 San Francisco 7/16/06 San Francisco 7/18/06 Mountain View 10/22/06 Bridge School Honolulu 12/9/06 U2 Mountain View 10/23/10 Bridge School Mountain View 10/24/10 Bridge School Los Angeles 11/23/13 Oakland 11/26/13 Seattle 12/6/13 Denver 10/22/14 Mountain View 10/25/14 Bridge School Mexico City 11/28/15 Seattle 8/8/18 Seattle 8/10/18 Missoula 8/13/18 Chicago 8/18/18 Chicago 8/20/18 EV: Berkeley 4/7/08 Berkeley 4/8/08
It seems to me there are a bunch of different things in play here. There are those that can roll with the punches and just want everyone to take it easy and wait until everything is firmed and then they can worry about refunds or dates changed or airline or hotel reservations. They have the.. flexibility or financial security to adjust plans for next year. Then there are those who invested a lot of time and money on all the tickets and reservations who only planned for it this summer and need information ASAP to determine whether they can change plans or need refunds. (Remember pending more details shows might not be in the same sequences as before), then there are those who have been laid off recently and could really use a timely refund because there is no way they can simply delay and need the money now. As one who has planned big things before there are so many factors the band has to deal with- the different venues and countries and laws etc that it is a bit of a nightmare. I just hope that those commenting on here will see that there are all kinds of different situations and viewpoints and telling some people to chill is not appropriate for them if you have the ability to ride it out come what may. Having been a fan for many years, I am assured the band management is aware of all the different problems and will address them as soon as they can.
It seems to me there are a bunch of different things in play here. There are those that can roll with the punches and just want everyone to take it easy and wait until everything is firmed and then they can worry about refunds or dates changed or airline or hotel reservations. They have the.. flexibility or financial security to adjust plans for next year. Then there are those who invested a lot of time and money on all the tickets and reservations who only planned for it this summer and need information ASAP to determine whether they can change plans or need refunds. (Remember pending more details shows might not be in the same sequences as before), then there are those who have been laid off recently and could really use a timely refund because there is no way they can simply delay and need the money now. As one who has planned big things before there are so many factors the band has to deal with- the different venues and countries and laws etc that it is a bit of a nightmare. I just hope that those commenting on here will see that there are all kinds of different situations and viewpoints and telling some people to chill is not appropriate for them if you have the ability to ride it out come what may. Having been a fan for many years, I am assured the band management is aware of all the different problems and will address them as soon as they can.
With my first child due in the Autumn I am fairly certain my wife and I will not be able to travel from the UK to Vienna and Budapest next year for these shows.
That said I am not to concerned about the 10C tickets, I am sure they will offer a refund at some point, it's the money paid out for flights and hotels I am worried about and I will not require any flight credit either.
With my first child due in the Autumn I am fairly certain my wife and I will not be able to travel from the UK to Vienna and Budapest next year for these shows.
That said I am not to concerned about the 10C tickets, I am sure they will offer a refund at some point, it's the money paid out for flights and hotels I am worried about and I will not require any flight credit either.
I will hold on the the Hyde Park tickets though.
except there is a problem: Hyde park it's cancelled and not postponed like the others (look at the status on the section "tour").
If they will play in UK next year maybe it will be not at hyde park this time and again new stress to got ticket (i remember the nightmare for O2 arena tickets 2 years ago)
Tami Combs, a 58-year-old yoga instructor from Indiana, bought concert tickets to see the Rolling Stones, Elton John, Chicago and Sturgill Simpson this year.
But after the coronavirus outbreak, the concerts were postponed — one by seven months, the rest indefinitely. She now wants her money back, but says she is having trouble getting a refund from Ticketmaster.
“I have about $3,000 tied up in these tickets,” Combs said in an interview. “This is my money that they are holding hostage.”
Combs is far from alone as the pandemic is setting off widespread anger at ticketing companies like Ticketmaster and StubHub. Online, fans are fuming about being unable to get refunds for concerts that have been postponed, often with no rescheduled dates in sight. As they see it, ticketing outlets are being greedy at a time of crisis, holding billions of dollars in cash that people now need for essentials.
Their anger is being stoked by the sense that some vendors switched their refund policies mid-crisis to avoid repaying consumers. Fans have drawn attention to the fact that Ticketmaster recently adjusted the language on its website. A few weeks ago, it said people could get refunds “if your event is postponed, rescheduled or canceled”; now it lists only cancellation as a reason for getting your money back, though it suggests there may be other circumstances in which refunds might be considered.
And last week a Wisconsin man sued StubHub — the biggest marketplace for ticket resales — after the company recently dropped its refund policy, offering instead coupons worth 120% of what customers had paid for canceled events.
Ticketmaster said that, while it was true it changed language to clarify matters, its refund policy had remained the same for years. StubHub, as the middleman between buyers and sellers of secondhand tickets, says that handling refunds for the huge number of canceled concerts is simply not manageable.
Even in the best of times, ticketing vendors are a common target for customer complaints. But the noise has started to bubble up to advocacy groups and attorneys general, posing a potential public-relations crisis for the ticketing industry.
For the companies, though, the problem is much more than a matter of optics.
The live-entertainment industry has come to a grinding halt, with more than 20,000 events suspended in the past few weeks. If the pandemic does not subside soon, the peak summer touring season could be delayed as well.
Ticketmaster sells more than $30 billion in tickets each year, but most of that money is forwarded each week to venues, festival promoters and other clients. StubHub sells almost $5 billion in tickets a year, and it pays the resellers who provide its inventory — many of them professional scalpers.
Last week, Pollstar, a trade publication that covers the touring business, said that the top 200 tours of 2020 had been expected to generate about $12 billion in ticket sales worldwide, but that the concert industry could lose nearly $9 billion if shows remained dark for the rest of the year — which promoters and talent agents say is a possibility.
Still, John Breyault, vice president of public policy at the National Consumers League, urged industry players to refund payments, and to do so promptly.
“We have never seen such a quick and total collapse in the live event industry, as in many industries,” Breyault said, “but at the end of the day we can’t lose sight that these are dire financial times for consumers.”
The office of the New York state Attorney General said that since the first week of February it had received thousands of consumer complaints tied to the virus, on issues such as price gouging or fake medical treatments, but only 10 so far touching on ticketing matters. But experts say they expect an increase in formal complaints as more concerts are postponed.
For many fans online, one serious concern is whether companies jettisoned their refund policies when they saw the tidal wave of claims building.
Ticketmaster, which is owned by the concert giant Live Nation Entertainment, acknowledged that it had made changes to parts of its website once the coronavirus stalled the touring business last month, but that its underlying refund policy had not changed. That policy — which customers must click to accept when they buy tickets — says that refunds are processed automatically for cancellations, but that organizers of events may place “limitations” on refunds when it comes to postponed or rescheduled shows.
“In the past, with a routine volume of event interruptions, we and our event organizers have been able to consistently offer more flexibility with refunds for postponed and rescheduled events,” Ticketmaster said in a statement. “However, considering the currently unprecedented volume of affected events, we are focused on supporting organizers as they work to determine venue availability, new dates and refund policies, while rescheduling thousands of events in what continues to be an evolving situation.”
Sukhinder Singh Cassidy, the president of StubHub, said that the company had long issued refunds to ticket buyers before recovering charges from sellers, but that the huge number of cancellations had made that almost impossible.
“The complications that arise, and just the magnitude of this timing challenge, is frankly challenging for any intermediary in the normal course of practice,” Singh Cassidy said in an interview, “when practically speaking, that normal course no longer exists.”
StubHub, which was recently acquired by Viagogo, another secondary ticketing marketplace, for $4 billion, declined to comment on the lawsuit against it.
The potential loss of revenue facing Live Nation and StubHub has also drawn interest from Wall Street. Last month, Moody’s Investor Service downgraded Live Nation’s debt over concerns about concert cancellations.
For consumers, though, the question is simply whether they are getting their money back.
Marcus Franz, 27, spent more than $1,000 on tickets to an Elton John show at Madison Square Garden that has since been postponed. Franz said he bought four tickets at $250 apiece for the April concert, two for him and his wife and two he had hoped to resell for extra money.
Even if the concert is rescheduled, Franz said, he is unlikely to be able to attend — he is moving to Texas soon.
“I think when you postpone a concert, with a date to be decided,” he said in an interview, “the right thing to do would be to cancel those concerts, figure out what’s going on and then set them back up in the future.”
That may indeed happen. The major concert promoters and talent companies are now negotiating over plans to offer what some called a “refund window” in coming weeks — a period of perhaps 30 days when customers would be given the option to obtain refunds for postponed shows, according to multiple executives at these companies, who spoke anonymously because the negotiations are continuing.
They may want to act before more angry fans turn to the courts as Matthew McMillan, who sued StubHub in Wisconsin, has already done, albeit in a dispute over a refund for hockey tickets.
In the music industry, one lawsuit, filed in 2017, addressed the issue of when a postponement is really a cancellation. A fan of Janet Jackson sued Live Nation and a resale ticketing site, Vivid Seats, in California after a protracted delay to one of her tours. The lawsuit was settled, though it was not disclosed whether this involved any financial payment to her or other disappointed ticket holders; Ticketmaster said that the terms of the settlement were confidential.
Brian T. Fitzpatrick, a law professor at Vanderbilt University and a class-action expert, said conditions were ripe for such suits.
The companies may find some protection in the language of the ticketing contracts, Fitzpatrick said, but if concerts are delayed indefinitely and no near-term dates are supplied, ticket holders and their lawyers may argue that such lengthy postponements are unfair or unreasonable.
“If you are just stringing people along, then the court can say you are not exercising good faith,” Fitzpatrick said. “I think we are going to see lots and lots of breach-of-contract lawsuits coming out of the coronavirus. There is going to be a lot of people who are going to test what the law allows and does not allow.”
But other experts said getting legal traction would be tough because the ticketing companies would be protected by their careful contractual language or the courts would be sympathetic to the industry’s argument that the virus was a catastrophic event beyond its control.
Timothy J. Dennin, a lawyer who often litigates class-action suits, said it would be hard for fans to say they were suffering damage when an event was postponed and they could go sometime in the future, while rescheduling too soon could be dangerous. “In my view this is a ‘black swan’ event that is no one’s fault,” he said in an email. Later, in an interview about the ticketing companies, he added, “They are not responsible for the pandemic.”
Even if companies can rely on legal protection, some experts argue that for the benefit of their long-term reputation they ought to consider paying refunds to their customers anyway.
“People will remember how companies act in this crisis,” said Ross Johnson, a crisis communications expert based in Los Angeles. “This is a whole different ballgame for the Ticketmasters of the world. What they should be doing is saying, ‘We feel your pain.’ ”
"The heart and mind are the true lens of the camera." - Yusuf Karsh
With my first child due in the Autumn I am fairly certain my wife and I will not be able to travel from the UK to Vienna and Budapest next year for these shows.
That said I am not to concerned about the 10C tickets, I am sure they will offer a refund at some point, it's the money paid out for flights and hotels I am worried about and I will not require any flight credit either.
I will hold on the the Hyde Park tickets though.
except there is a problem: Hyde park it's cancelled and not postponed like the others (look at the status on the section "tour").
If they will play in UK next year maybe it will be not at hyde park this time and again new stress to got ticket (i remember the nightmare for O2 arena tickets 2 years ago)
So they have until 6th May to reschedule or refund? That's fine.
I would prefer it if they played at a venue instead and I must have got lucky lastime. I won seats for night 2 and 10c sent me a link to pre order from the O2 website after losing night 1. They were not great seats but at least it wasn't top tier.
The worst thing about those shows was that the trains were not running.
With my first child due in the Autumn I am fairly certain my wife and I will not be able to travel from the UK to Vienna and Budapest next year for these shows.
That said I am not to concerned about the 10C tickets, I am sure they will offer a refund at some point, it's the money paid out for flights and hotels I am worried about and I will not require any flight credit either.
I will hold on the the Hyde Park tickets though.
BST is cancelled, not postponed (as opposed to the rest of the tour)...those will be refund by AXS, or Ticketmaster, or whomever you got them from.
This sucks for all parts and I’m sure the band is pretty frustrated and eager to Tour the new album. My plan is to try and reschedule my flights to Krakow and Zūrich Once the new dates Are up. If the Airlines won’t do that I kind of hope the borders Will be closed in July so that the flights Will get cancelled And hopefully get a refund. Worst case scenario is to do the Tour without the shows and just be a tourist. Then a revisit to the exact same cities won’t be as exciting in 2021 But then it Will probably just be hop on a plane - catch the show and fly home the Day after.
Roskilde 2000, Berlin 2006,
Athens 2006, Dusseldorf 2007, Copenhagen 2007, New York NY 1 + 2 2008, Berlin
2009, London 2009, London 2010, Berlin 2010, Manchester 2 2012, Berlin 1 2012,
Stockholm 2012, Oslo 2012, Copenhagen 2012, Amsterdam 1 + 2 (EV solo) 2012,
Amsterdam 1 + 2 2014, Stockholm 2014, Oslo 2014, Leeds 2014, Milton Keynes
2014, Heartland Festival DK (EV solo) 2017, Berlin 2018, Barcelona 2018, Copenhagen 2022, Prague 2022 (Cancelled)
One wonders if lack of immediate refund option is because promoters, etc (not the band) may not have immediate cash on hand. Smaller hotels have had this problem. Can’t offer refunds due to literally not having enough cash in hand. Probably not the case, but wonder at this point if ticketing agencies, promoters are getting tight on cash as literally zero events are taking place. Who knows? Just killing time spitball balling here. Point being - what an absolute shit show this virus has caused.
Boston '06 Mansfield '08 Hartford '10 Worcester, Hartford '13 Global Citizen, NY '15
Can't see the big problem in TC tickets, give the fans two options: full refund for all your tickets money returned to the creditcard you have in TC or keep ALL your tickets and hope you can make it on the new dates. And then make a new lottery for the new dates ( and/or places ) for those who haven't tickets ( you can't get 2 x 2 tickets for one show ) and make it quick as a lot of people writing there are a lot going on and maybe the money could better spend than on concerts
Burn my eyes and try to blind me
Bury me so they won't find me
Try to suck my power empty
Got no crown of thorns on me
Comments
Coronavirus: Will I get a refund on my ticket if events are cancelled?
Am I entitled to a full refund?
Generally, if you bought your ticket for a cancelled event from an official seller, you should be entitled to a refund, often automatically.
Using a credit card to buy something costing between £100 and £30,000 means you are legally entitled to a refund if you do not get what you were promised.
and
https://www.which.co.uk/news/2020/04/coronavirus-outbreak-cancelled-or-postponed-events-can-i-get-my-money-back/
San Francisco 12/31/91
Mountain View 7/18/92 Lollapalooza
Mountain View 7/19/92 Lollapalooza
Mountain View 11/1/92 Bridge School
San Francisco 10/28/93
San Jose 10/30/93
Berkeley 10/31/93
Mountain View 10/2/94 Bridge School
San Francisco 6/24/95
San Jose 11/4/95
Mountain View 10/20/96 Bridge School
Oakland 11/15/97 Rolling Stones
Mountain View 10/30/99 Bridge School
Mountain View 10/31/00
Mountain View 6/1/03
San Francisco 7/15/06
San Francisco 7/16/06
San Francisco 7/18/06
Mountain View 10/22/06 Bridge School
Honolulu 12/9/06 U2
Mountain View 10/23/10 Bridge School
Mountain View 10/24/10 Bridge School
Los Angeles 11/23/13
Oakland 11/26/13
Seattle 12/6/13
Denver 10/22/14
Mountain View 10/25/14 Bridge School
Mexico City 11/28/15
Seattle 8/8/18
Seattle 8/10/18
Missoula 8/13/18
Chicago 8/18/18
Chicago 8/20/18
EV:
Berkeley 4/7/08
Berkeley 4/8/08
San Francisco 12/31/91
Mountain View 7/18/92 Lollapalooza
Mountain View 7/19/92 Lollapalooza
Mountain View 11/1/92 Bridge School
San Francisco 10/28/93
San Jose 10/30/93
Berkeley 10/31/93
Mountain View 10/2/94 Bridge School
San Francisco 6/24/95
San Jose 11/4/95
Mountain View 10/20/96 Bridge School
Oakland 11/15/97 Rolling Stones
Mountain View 10/30/99 Bridge School
Mountain View 10/31/00
Mountain View 6/1/03
San Francisco 7/15/06
San Francisco 7/16/06
San Francisco 7/18/06
Mountain View 10/22/06 Bridge School
Honolulu 12/9/06 U2
Mountain View 10/23/10 Bridge School
Mountain View 10/24/10 Bridge School
Los Angeles 11/23/13
Oakland 11/26/13
Seattle 12/6/13
Denver 10/22/14
Mountain View 10/25/14 Bridge School
Mexico City 11/28/15
Seattle 8/8/18
Seattle 8/10/18
Missoula 8/13/18
Chicago 8/18/18
Chicago 8/20/18
EV:
Berkeley 4/7/08
Berkeley 4/8/08
San Francisco 12/31/91
Mountain View 7/18/92 Lollapalooza
Mountain View 7/19/92 Lollapalooza
Mountain View 11/1/92 Bridge School
San Francisco 10/28/93
San Jose 10/30/93
Berkeley 10/31/93
Mountain View 10/2/94 Bridge School
San Francisco 6/24/95
San Jose 11/4/95
Mountain View 10/20/96 Bridge School
Oakland 11/15/97 Rolling Stones
Mountain View 10/30/99 Bridge School
Mountain View 10/31/00
Mountain View 6/1/03
San Francisco 7/15/06
San Francisco 7/16/06
San Francisco 7/18/06
Mountain View 10/22/06 Bridge School
Honolulu 12/9/06 U2
Mountain View 10/23/10 Bridge School
Mountain View 10/24/10 Bridge School
Los Angeles 11/23/13
Oakland 11/26/13
Seattle 12/6/13
Denver 10/22/14
Mountain View 10/25/14 Bridge School
Mexico City 11/28/15
Seattle 8/8/18
Seattle 8/10/18
Missoula 8/13/18
Chicago 8/18/18
Chicago 8/20/18
EV:
Berkeley 4/7/08
Berkeley 4/8/08
That said I am not to concerned about the 10C tickets, I am sure they will offer a refund at some point, it's the money paid out for flights and hotels I am worried about and I will not require any flight credit either.
I will hold on the the Hyde Park tickets though.
except there is a problem: Hyde park it's cancelled and not postponed like the others (look at the status on the section "tour").
If they will play in UK next year maybe it will be not at hyde park this time and again new stress to got ticket (i remember the nightmare for O2 arena tickets 2 years ago)
Angry fans say first the concerts were canceled, then the refunds
The New York Times |
LINK
Apr 09, 2020 | 6:15 AM
Tami Combs, a 58-year-old yoga instructor from Indiana, bought concert tickets to see the Rolling Stones, Elton John, Chicago and Sturgill Simpson this year.
But after the coronavirus outbreak, the concerts were postponed — one by seven months, the rest indefinitely. She now wants her money back, but says she is having trouble getting a refund from Ticketmaster.
“I have about $3,000 tied up in these tickets,” Combs said in an interview. “This is my money that they are holding hostage.”
Combs is far from alone as the pandemic is setting off widespread anger at ticketing companies like Ticketmaster and StubHub. Online, fans are fuming about being unable to get refunds for concerts that have been postponed, often with no rescheduled dates in sight. As they see it, ticketing outlets are being greedy at a time of crisis, holding billions of dollars in cash that people now need for essentials.
Their anger is being stoked by the sense that some vendors switched their refund policies mid-crisis to avoid repaying consumers. Fans have drawn attention to the fact that Ticketmaster recently adjusted the language on its website. A few weeks ago, it said people could get refunds “if your event is postponed, rescheduled or canceled”; now it lists only cancellation as a reason for getting your money back, though it suggests there may be other circumstances in which refunds might be considered.
And last week a Wisconsin man sued StubHub — the biggest marketplace for ticket resales — after the company recently dropped its refund policy, offering instead coupons worth 120% of what customers had paid for canceled events.
Ticketmaster said that, while it was true it changed language to clarify matters, its refund policy had remained the same for years. StubHub, as the middleman between buyers and sellers of secondhand tickets, says that handling refunds for the huge number of canceled concerts is simply not manageable.
Even in the best of times, ticketing vendors are a common target for customer complaints. But the noise has started to bubble up to advocacy groups and attorneys general, posing a potential public-relations crisis for the ticketing industry.
For the companies, though, the problem is much more than a matter of optics.
The live-entertainment industry has come to a grinding halt, with more than 20,000 events suspended in the past few weeks. If the pandemic does not subside soon, the peak summer touring season could be delayed as well.
Ticketmaster sells more than $30 billion in tickets each year, but most of that money is forwarded each week to venues, festival promoters and other clients. StubHub sells almost $5 billion in tickets a year, and it pays the resellers who provide its inventory — many of them professional scalpers.
Last week, Pollstar, a trade publication that covers the touring business, said that the top 200 tours of 2020 had been expected to generate about $12 billion in ticket sales worldwide, but that the concert industry could lose nearly $9 billion if shows remained dark for the rest of the year — which promoters and talent agents say is a possibility.
Still, John Breyault, vice president of public policy at the National Consumers League, urged industry players to refund payments, and to do so promptly.
“We have never seen such a quick and total collapse in the live event industry, as in many industries,” Breyault said, “but at the end of the day we can’t lose sight that these are dire financial times for consumers.”
The office of the New York state Attorney General said that since the first week of February it had received thousands of consumer complaints tied to the virus, on issues such as price gouging or fake medical treatments, but only 10 so far touching on ticketing matters. But experts say they expect an increase in formal complaints as more concerts are postponed.
For many fans online, one serious concern is whether companies jettisoned their refund policies when they saw the tidal wave of claims building.
Ticketmaster, which is owned by the concert giant Live Nation Entertainment, acknowledged that it had made changes to parts of its website once the coronavirus stalled the touring business last month, but that its underlying refund policy had not changed. That policy — which customers must click to accept when they buy tickets — says that refunds are processed automatically for cancellations, but that organizers of events may place “limitations” on refunds when it comes to postponed or rescheduled shows.
“In the past, with a routine volume of event interruptions, we and our event organizers have been able to consistently offer more flexibility with refunds for postponed and rescheduled events,” Ticketmaster said in a statement. “However, considering the currently unprecedented volume of affected events, we are focused on supporting organizers as they work to determine venue availability, new dates and refund policies, while rescheduling thousands of events in what continues to be an evolving situation.”
Sukhinder Singh Cassidy, the president of StubHub, said that the company had long issued refunds to ticket buyers before recovering charges from sellers, but that the huge number of cancellations had made that almost impossible.
“The complications that arise, and just the magnitude of this timing challenge, is frankly challenging for any intermediary in the normal course of practice,” Singh Cassidy said in an interview, “when practically speaking, that normal course no longer exists.”
StubHub, which was recently acquired by Viagogo, another secondary ticketing marketplace, for $4 billion, declined to comment on the lawsuit against it.
The potential loss of revenue facing Live Nation and StubHub has also drawn interest from Wall Street. Last month, Moody’s Investor Service downgraded Live Nation’s debt over concerns about concert cancellations.
For consumers, though, the question is simply whether they are getting their money back.
Marcus Franz, 27, spent more than $1,000 on tickets to an Elton John show at Madison Square Garden that has since been postponed. Franz said he bought four tickets at $250 apiece for the April concert, two for him and his wife and two he had hoped to resell for extra money.
Even if the concert is rescheduled, Franz said, he is unlikely to be able to attend — he is moving to Texas soon.
“I think when you postpone a concert, with a date to be decided,” he said in an interview, “the right thing to do would be to cancel those concerts, figure out what’s going on and then set them back up in the future.”
That may indeed happen. The major concert promoters and talent companies are now negotiating over plans to offer what some called a “refund window” in coming weeks — a period of perhaps 30 days when customers would be given the option to obtain refunds for postponed shows, according to multiple executives at these companies, who spoke anonymously because the negotiations are continuing.
They may want to act before more angry fans turn to the courts as Matthew McMillan, who sued StubHub in Wisconsin, has already done, albeit in a dispute over a refund for hockey tickets.
In the music industry, one lawsuit, filed in 2017, addressed the issue of when a postponement is really a cancellation. A fan of Janet Jackson sued Live Nation and a resale ticketing site, Vivid Seats, in California after a protracted delay to one of her tours. The lawsuit was settled, though it was not disclosed whether this involved any financial payment to her or other disappointed ticket holders; Ticketmaster said that the terms of the settlement were confidential.
Brian T. Fitzpatrick, a law professor at Vanderbilt University and a class-action expert, said conditions were ripe for such suits.
The companies may find some protection in the language of the ticketing contracts, Fitzpatrick said, but if concerts are delayed indefinitely and no near-term dates are supplied, ticket holders and their lawyers may argue that such lengthy postponements are unfair or unreasonable.
“If you are just stringing people along, then the court can say you are not exercising good faith,” Fitzpatrick said. “I think we are going to see lots and lots of breach-of-contract lawsuits coming out of the coronavirus. There is going to be a lot of people who are going to test what the law allows and does not allow.”
But other experts said getting legal traction would be tough because the ticketing companies would be protected by their careful contractual language or the courts would be sympathetic to the industry’s argument that the virus was a catastrophic event beyond its control.
Timothy J. Dennin, a lawyer who often litigates class-action suits, said it would be hard for fans to say they were suffering damage when an event was postponed and they could go sometime in the future, while rescheduling too soon could be dangerous. “In my view this is a ‘black swan’ event that is no one’s fault,” he said in an email. Later, in an interview about the ticketing companies, he added, “They are not responsible for the pandemic.”
Even if companies can rely on legal protection, some experts argue that for the benefit of their long-term reputation they ought to consider paying refunds to their customers anyway.
“People will remember how companies act in this crisis,” said Ross Johnson, a crisis communications expert based in Los Angeles. “This is a whole different ballgame for the Ticketmasters of the world. What they should be doing is saying, ‘We feel your pain.’ ”
I would prefer it if they played at a venue instead and I must have got lucky lastime. I won seats for night 2 and 10c sent me a link to pre order from the O2 website after losing night 1. They were not great seats but at least it wasn't top tier.
The worst thing about those shows was that the trains were not running.
Can't wait for the new date, we'll be there.
I must check for an email notification on the postponement, I definitely didn't see it.
Roskilde 2000, Berlin 2006, Athens 2006, Dusseldorf 2007, Copenhagen 2007, New York NY 1 + 2 2008, Berlin 2009, London 2009, London 2010, Berlin 2010, Manchester 2 2012, Berlin 1 2012, Stockholm 2012, Oslo 2012, Copenhagen 2012, Amsterdam 1 + 2 (EV solo) 2012, Amsterdam 1 + 2 2014, Stockholm 2014, Oslo 2014, Leeds 2014, Milton Keynes 2014, Heartland Festival DK (EV solo) 2017, Berlin 2018, Barcelona 2018, Copenhagen 2022, Prague 2022 (Cancelled)
Mansfield '08
Hartford '10
Worcester, Hartford '13
Global Citizen, NY '15
and make it quick as a lot of people writing there are a lot going on and maybe the money could better spend than on concerts
Bury me so they won't find me
Try to suck my power empty
Got no crown of thorns on me
Latest story - Declan at Slipknot is up on the website now at www.giventolive.com along with Kayleigh at Foo Fighters, Tony at Stereophonics and more.
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