Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!

pjl44

I'm sitting this one out

mrussel1 said:

pjl44 said:

mrussel1 said:

pjl44 said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

pjl44 said:

I look forward to the first debate when Biden shits his pants.

"But did you watch the first 90 minutes when his pants went unshat?"
"I think it shows bold confidence that he finished his point."
"He was making a powerful statement about our health care system."

Also, don't let anyone bully you by wagging their finger about when you can or can't post. If you don't want to deal with the verbal abuse that comes with holding a contrary opinion and just want to pop in for a windmill dunk when Biden does something dumb...go for it.

Lol.  It is weird that one is not even allowed to criticize the candidate they will be voting for.  Being over confident in Biden is weakness in my opinion.

Strange comment.  Who is disallowing you? 

Well ackshually no one is disallowing.  More like pj44 said, a lot of finger wagging and self satisfactory downsplaining, and As of today brushing off micro aggressions as something that only a politically uninformed newb millennial would/could be offended by. As if the main point was who would be offended not that that it is a completely moronic statement for an old white guy to say to any person of color.  Which is why apologizing was the right move and I’m glad he did.

I don't speak millennial,  so I don't know what "downsplaining" is.  And I generally think that "micro aggressions" are excuses for white liberals to get upset,  enabling their habitual "virtual signaling".  But if I hurt anyone's feelings by not worrying about Biden's comments,  then I apologize for not falling into line with the twittersphere and those here.

Once I was clueless about micro aggressions and also thought they were excuses.  Then I had a multiracial daughter And learned from my experiences parenting as well as from her mother that it isn’t as simple as white people virtue signaling.  Basically for me it boils down to do I think it is ok for someone that is not black to tell my daughter what is and isn’t black.  A lot of people like to explain away micro aggressions as if they are nothing, because then they can justify they never did anything bad or ‘racist’. When my daughter was afraid to wear her hair down and didn’t tell us for a year because another well meaning white parent made a comment about things sticking in her hair that was a micro aggression that hurt her developing character.  That is one in a long list of learning experiences I have had.  I could go on but I won’t because it pisses me off.

Yeah I’m sure the guy won’t lose votes but it is ludicrous to think there is nothing wrong with saying what he said from the position he was in.

downsplaining=talking down to others as if you are from a privileged higher position and that your knowledge or viewpoints are superior.

You misunderstand me.  White people virtue signaling through micro is what im speaking of.  The Northam situation was a perfect example.  And what im tired of is people on the left going after Biden,  doing the gop dirty work. 
Where is the Intercept on all the Tara Reade stories?  Not one article about her what NPR, Politico,  CNN and others learned through real journalism.   Intercept launched this through lazy,  agenda journalism.  And it was left to the real news to discover she is a lunatic and quite probably a perjuror.   It's infuriating.  

I assume you mean Gov Northam? What happened there?  As far as Tara Reade I personally never took that story seriously from the get go.  I think a problem that is just as big on our side is that as much as we sometimes do the GOP dirty work asking questions and trying to get the best candidates that there are also those that can’t take honest criticisms of our sides candidates or think that such criticism somehow equates with dislike or not supporting t candidate.  I mean do we really want to be like the other side and unfailingly support our team at all costs.  Look what that has gotten them, a group of politicians so bad that many keep going along because they are too proud/stupid to admit that they have elected monsters.

Northam  is the black face picture from when he was in college in the early 80s.  

I agree we should not be support no matter what, but does anyone really think Biden is a racist because of this statement?  The reaction was over the top.  The only criticism, if you can call it that, that made sense to me was from Diddy of all people.  He simply said.. don’t take our vote for granted.  That’s fair and commensurate with the statement.

I don’t think that Biden is racist.  I think the statement was.  We white people get a lot of passes on saying and doing stupid racist things.  The reactions have been all over the place.  From anger to shock to oh well.  Far be it from me to say that anyone went over the top. If his statement affected some people more than others they can feel what they feel.  I still think it was a bad statement.  The fact that he immediately apologized and said as much is proof enough to me that Joe has empathy and way more class than the current Commamder in Chief. Not that I needed that kind of proof.  I just don’t want to be giving our guy a pass on everything just because the bar for trump is so low.   I would go as far as to say if this was a normal time in American politics and Joe made that statement while going against a run of the mill Republican it would have been way more damaging.  Since the alternative is Trump people are much quicker to forgive which is a ok in my book because no one(sane) wants 4 more years of Trump.   

I looked into Northam. First thought was wow Blackface 🤦‍♂️. 1984 was a different time and place. He apologized as well and showed he learned from being ignorant. We are all people and we all grow and learn it’s important to acknowledge that. But again anyone that was and remains truly upset about that is absolutely entitled to feel that way and press the guy to be extra thoughtful to prove his wasn’t a hollow apology.

I agree with Diddy and others that taking the AA vote for granted is stupid.  Taking any vote for granted is stupid especially when going against Trump.  I am not so sure that was learned as well as it should have been after 2016.

The craziest aspect about the Northam situation is he chose to put that picture in a yearbook. It's not like some old classmate dug it out of a shoebox 40 years later. He gets to stay in office which reinforces that most people all along the political spectrum don't really care about racism unless they can use it cynically to attack opponents.

You mean it was chosen in the 80s, 15 years before a major motion picture called Soul Man came out, which  was about a kid in black face going to Harvard for the affirmative action scholarship.  I admire your ability to foresee cultural changes 30 or 40 years before anyone else. 

Im curious if you or your friends ever called each other 'fag' or 'gay' growing up,  using it as a pejorative. I'm 47 and I heard it all the time.  It's important to utilize historical perspective in evaluation.  Woke liberals have no time for such critical thinking. 

Dude, it was a fucking Klan outfit. This isn't the AG dressing up like a rapper.

pjl44

I'm sitting this one out

The hills that people will die on instead of just saying "yes, maybe a different Democrat who doesn't have jokey Klan photos can finish out the term."

mrussel1

Biden

And the university,  the year book committee and whomever else thought it was fine, furthering my point about judging people based on cultural norms of the time.  This was Virginia 1980s.  

mrussel1

Biden

pjl44 said:

The hills that people will die on instead of just saying "yes, maybe a different Democrat who doesn't have jokey Klan photos can finish out the term."

This is the same short sighted thinking that led to "believe all women".  Liberals create a standard that's ridiculous then are shocked when they learn that they're not perfect either. 
You think a person's entire political career and livelihood should be judged on one photo,  omitting his years of military service,  that of being a charity driven pediatrician and a public servant?  Ridiculous. 

mrussel1

Biden

pjl44 said:

The hills that people will die on instead of just saying "yes, maybe a different Democrat who doesn't have jokey Klan photos can finish out the term."

Could you live up to the same standard? If every thing you ever wrote, said or did was available,  and your job was on the line for it,  are you confident you never uttered something that would be taboo today? Never committed a petty crime?  

pjl44

I'm sitting this one out

8 million people in that state and asking for it to be governed by someone who hasn't put on a Klan robe is too much to ask. Is this a Ted Nugent message board? Did I click the wrong link?

mrussel1

Biden

pjl44 said:

8 million people in that state and asking for it to be governed by someone who hasn't put on a Klan robe is too much to ask. Is this a Ted Nugent message board? Did I click the wrong link?

Libertarian virtue signaling.  Hilarious.  

The 8 million argument is stupid and irrelevant since that's not how succession works.  But same question,  how is your past? Is it perfect? No mistakes your college years right? Never said anything derogatory or sexist,  never called a buddy a homo.  Never told a racist joke...

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

pjl44 said:

The hills that people will die on instead of just saying "yes, maybe a different Democrat who doesn't have jokey Klan photos can finish out the term."

Could you live up to the same standard? If every thing you ever wrote, said or did was available,  and your job was on the line for it,  are you confident you never uttered something that would be taboo today? Never committed a petty crime?  

There are posters on here who had Sleepy Woke Joe tried and convicted and thought he should have dropped out solely based on an accusation. No legal investigation, no evidence, no depositions, no court, just an accusation. Talk about “moral purity” and downsplaining. And now they want to hang him for a stupid comment. 

pjl44

I'm sitting this one out

mrussel1 said:

pjl44 said:

8 million people in that state and asking for it to be governed by someone who hasn't put on a Klan robe is too much to ask. Is this a Ted Nugent message board? Did I click the wrong link?

Libertarian virtue signaling.  Hilarious.  

The 8 million argument is stupid and irrelevant since that's not how succession works.  But same question,  how is your past? Is it perfect? No mistakes your college years right? Never said anything derogatory or sexist,  never called a buddy a homo.  Never told a racist joke...

If Northam had been accused of saying a gay slur as a teenager, that is not in the same stratosphere as putting on a Klan outfit (in jest or otherwise) in his early twenties. Equating those things is outrageous. 

Halifax2TheMax

pjl44 said:

mrussel1 said:

pjl44 said:

8 million people in that state and asking for it to be governed by someone who hasn't put on a Klan robe is too much to ask. Is this a Ted Nugent message board? Did I click the wrong link?

Libertarian virtue signaling.  Hilarious.  

The 8 million argument is stupid and irrelevant since that's not how succession works.  But same question,  how is your past? Is it perfect? No mistakes your college years right? Never said anything derogatory or sexist,  never called a buddy a homo.  Never told a racist joke...

If Northam had been accused of saying a gay slur as a teenager, that is not in the same stratosphere as putting on a Klan outfit (in jest or otherwise) in his early twenties. Equating those things is outrageous. 

GaysAgainstPete might disagree with you.

pjl44

I'm sitting this one out

mrussel1 said:

pjl44 said:

8 million people in that state and asking for it to be governed by someone who hasn't put on a Klan robe is too much to ask. Is this a Ted Nugent message board? Did I click the wrong link?

Libertarian virtue signaling.  Hilarious.  

Also, if saying "a guy who posed in a KKK outfit shouldn't be Governor" is a Libertarian value and not a Democrat value, we will gladly uniquely own that, regardless of what sort of Trumpy pejorative you want to put on it

Honestly, this is only "virtue signaling" if you're in the comments section on Breitbart

mrussel1

Biden

pjl44 said:

mrussel1 said:

pjl44 said:

8 million people in that state and asking for it to be governed by someone who hasn't put on a Klan robe is too much to ask. Is this a Ted Nugent message board? Did I click the wrong link?

Libertarian virtue signaling.  Hilarious.  

Also, if saying "a guy who posed in a KKK outfit shouldn't be Governor" is a Libertarian value and not a Democrat value, we will gladly uniquely own that, regardless of what sort of Trumpy pejorative you want to put on it

Honestly, this is only "virtue signaling" if you're in the comments section on Breitbart

The virtue signaling is not about it being wrong or a mistake.  It's the conclusion you draw that this one decision he made as college student im the 80s, in rural eastern Virginia is so irredeemable that he deserves to lose his job.  That every other act as a military doctor,  pediatrician and politician is outweighed by this one issue.  And every act he could as a governor also pales to it.  That's ivory tower bullshit. 

FiveBelow

I'm sitting this one out

There would be no defending Northam regardless of when or where the picture was taken by anyone in this thread if he was not a Dem. It would be an absolute shit show in here if this guy represented the other party.

mrussel1

Biden

JW269453 said:

There would be no defending Northam regardless of when or where the picture was taken by anyone in this thread if he was not a Dem. It would be an absolute shit show in here if this guy represented the other party.

I would look at a person's life and their policies,  not just a yearbook from 40 years ago as my guide.  Look at George Allen as a contrast.  He had a long history of racial slurs and pro confederacy issues.  Your statement is ungrounded.  You can't possibly know what all of us would do.  You don't know me personally. 

FiveBelow

I'm sitting this one out

mrussel1 said:

JW269453 said:

There would be no defending Northam regardless of when or where the picture was taken by anyone in this thread if he was not a Dem. It would be an absolute shit show in here if this guy represented the other party.

I would look at a person's life and their policies,  not just a yearbook from 40 years ago as my guide.  Look at George Allen as a contrast.  He had a long history of racial slurs and pro confederacy issues.  Your statement is ungrounded.  You can't possibly know what all of us would do.  You don't know me personally. 

That is precisely why I did not single anyone out. I am speaking solely on tendencies.

static111

Biden

I think the important thing to see with any of these issues is not the time period or context, but realizing and being able to admit that even if it was socially acceptable at the time it was still wrong.  It takes a lot to own up to mistakes like this and apologize rather than justify.  It’s important to apologize and not just say well that was the time period and context what do you expect Mahatma Gandhi or Mother Theresa?That attitude is not much better than Trump.  it is the same attitude that allows many to not analyze what saying f** in the 80s or telling a racist joke when they didn’t know better does in terms of making that behavior acceptable in the modern era especially if that wasn’t our ‘intent’.  That shit was as dumb In the past as it is now, just because it took straight white america so long to start seeing it doesn’t mean it was ok in the past.  

Again I think the amount of protectionism around these guys is ridiculous.  I don’t see that anyone here is looking to can anybody or try to end any Dem politicians candidacy.  is it really so much to ask to be better than the other side and acknowledge the flaws on our side and try to hold our politicians to a higher standard? Or is it none of my business because I supported other candidates in the primary?  I DO NOT WANT JOE or any other Democrat to lose a seat in this election.  

mrussel1

Biden

1. Northam said it was wrong and he apologized in this case.  It doesn't mean he should resign the governorship for all the reasons I outlined.  
2. "That shit was dumb in the past..." again, you are looking at it through today's lens.  You can't possibly know how you would have felt about something if you were a young adult in the 80s.  Have you ever stopped and thought about all of the things you say and do today that will be taboo in 20 years?  If you think there's nothing, you're kidding yourself.  
3. It's not about 'protectionism', it's about perspective.  I've been railing on this for a few years now.  There are so many Twittersphere people that never think about context, historical perspective, empathy or redemption.  Everyone tries to out-'outrage' each other.  

And the result is not a better candidate, it's a damaged candidate because of the words that people use and get reported on the news. 

mickeyrat

Biden

pjl44 said:

Jo Jorgensen wins the LP nomination. VP gets selected today.

https://reason.com/2020/05/23/jo-jorgensen-wins-libertarian-party-presidential-nomination/?amp&__twitter_impression=true

guess wapo, nyt, ap, yahoo news aggregator are sll waiting for this pick before reporting....

pjl44

I'm sitting this one out

mickeyrat said:

pjl44 said:

Jo Jorgensen wins the LP nomination. VP gets selected today.

https://reason.com/2020/05/23/jo-jorgensen-wins-libertarian-party-presidential-nomination/?amp&__twitter_impression=true

guess wapo, nyt, ap, yahoo news aggregator are sll waiting for this pick before reporting....

I am certain it will be above the fold across the board tomorrow...

pjl44

I'm sitting this one out

On a lighter note, Spike Cohen won the VP nomination. Below are some of his positions, as posted on his website. I'll be shooting heroin if anyone needs me.