Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!

EdsonNascimento

mrussel1 said:

EdsonNascimento said:

JimmyV said:

Republicans got more out of the Trump presidency than they ever dreamed, but now his usefulness has run out. Yesterday's garbage. 

This.     And the smile on Mitch's face showed they are a lot smarter about this stuff than the Dems who held on to a completely unpopular family for way too long and potentially cost themselves the last 4 years in doing so. (Do any Hillary lovers think for a moment if they had just let Biden run as is the protocol 4 years ago, they never would have had to deal with Trump? - like this election was decided based on him, last election was decided based on her).

As long as the Senate holds GOP, while Trump probably did in fact help win back some House seats, they really have no more use for him, and other than here and there he won't be able to do that in the future.

So, are you folks all ready for President Cheney in 4 years?  (*I don't believe this. I just wanted to get you guys worked up about something different/old. Oh, and it's Liz not the old guy. We've had enough of those - oh, wait.)

Um, it appears that your party hung onto a completely unpopular family one cycle too long as well.  It cost you the House and now the presidency.  Your arguments are really obtuse at times.  

If you're talking about Bush - a little history lesson - the 2nd Bush was a 2 term President.   the 2nd Clinton attacked her husband's victims and LOST to TRUMP!!!! Let me say that again - LOST TO TRUMP!!!!  While the corpse of Joe Biden beat him.  Hopefully she lives a long life and thinks of that every day.  

(And then btw, his brother did NOT get the nomination when Trump ran - so, seems just right to me).

Regarding the House and Bush - that's what typically happens with a party change at President. Just like when Trump had House and Senate his first 2 years (so comment on Obama?).   That didn't happen this time. That's HIGHLY unusual.  So, try again. I love you guys giving people labels because you can't think through these things on your own.  

mrussel1

Biden

EdsonNascimento said:

mrussel1 said:

EdsonNascimento said:

JimmyV said:

Republicans got more out of the Trump presidency than they ever dreamed, but now his usefulness has run out. Yesterday's garbage. 

This.     And the smile on Mitch's face showed they are a lot smarter about this stuff than the Dems who held on to a completely unpopular family for way too long and potentially cost themselves the last 4 years in doing so. (Do any Hillary lovers think for a moment if they had just let Biden run as is the protocol 4 years ago, they never would have had to deal with Trump? - like this election was decided based on him, last election was decided based on her).

As long as the Senate holds GOP, while Trump probably did in fact help win back some House seats, they really have no more use for him, and other than here and there he won't be able to do that in the future.

So, are you folks all ready for President Cheney in 4 years?  (*I don't believe this. I just wanted to get you guys worked up about something different/old. Oh, and it's Liz not the old guy. We've had enough of those - oh, wait.)

Um, it appears that your party hung onto a completely unpopular family one cycle too long as well.  It cost you the House and now the presidency.  Your arguments are really obtuse at times.  

If you're talking about Bush - a little history lesson - the 2nd Bush was a 2 term President.   the 2nd Clinton attacked her husband's victims and LOST to TRUMP!!!! Let me say that again - LOST TO TRUMP!!!!  While the corpse of Joe Biden beat him.  Hopefully she lives a long life and thinks of that every day.  

(And then btw, his brother did NOT get the nomination when Trump ran - so, seems just right to me).

Regarding the House and Bush - that's what typically happens with a party change at President. Just like when Trump had House and Senate his first 2 years (so comment on Obama?).   That didn't happen this time. That's HIGHLY unusual.  So, try again. I love you guys giving people labels because you can't think through these things on your own.  

I'm talking about the trump family. 

OnWis97

Biden

HughFreakingDillon said:

EdsonNascimento said:

JimmyV said:

Republicans got more out of the Trump presidency than they ever dreamed, but now his usefulness has run out. Yesterday's garbage. 

This.     And the smile on Mitch's face showed they are a lot smarter about this stuff than the Dems who held on to a completely unpopular family for way too long and potentially cost themselves the last 4 years in doing so. (Do any Hillary lovers think for a moment if they had just let Biden run as is the protocol 4 years ago, they never would have had to deal with Trump? - like this election was decided based on him, last election was decided based on her).

As long as the Senate holds GOP, while Trump probably did in fact help win back some House seats, they really have no more use for him, and other than here and there he won't be able to do that in the future.

So, are you folks all ready for President Cheney in 4 years?  (*I don't believe this. I just wanted to get you guys worked up about something different/old. Oh, and it's Liz not the old guy. We've had enough of those - oh, wait.)

i personally find it so funny how you always hear republicans brag about them being smarter than democrats in this situation and that situation. if biden had run in 2016, he would have lost. the only reason he's winning now is because independents are energized to get that idiot out of the white house. 

the house and senate are almost always a very close 50/50 split, so one side saying "we're so much better at this than you" is absolute nonsense. 

if republicans are so much better at it, why did obama have 8 years in the white house with complete control of all branches for a quarter of that? why is trump going to be a one term president if they are so good at it? nothing here is shocking. republicans generally keep the same seats that they always do, same with dems. some get flipped here and there, but the most of it stays pretty status quo. 

biden isn't dynamic or likeable in any special way. he's just not trump. that's why he wins. 

which concerns me for 2024, but that's a way off. i don't see kamala getting the vote out unless she somehow becomes super likable in the next 3 years. the best she can hope for is getting the moderates on both sides but she won't win over the left or the right. 

it will be nice, if biden does win, to have 4 years of calm and not some lunatic burning down his own house. 

I think Biden might have won.  You might not realized just how hated Hillary was and for how long.  She lost a few key states by a small number of votes.  Biden, while not the most inspiring candidate, didn't have the history of being hated. Plus he was attached to a popular president.  That got George HW Bush a term in office.

Honestly, I think Trump did much better this time. I think there was more fear of what he could in 2016 than what we know he is now.  He's gained in most demographics.  I think Biden would have won those close states Hillary lost. The fact that Trump was a miserable, contentious, self-obsessed numbskull was offset because Hillary was Hillary.

HughFreakingDillon

Biden

mrussel1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

EdsonNascimento said:

JimmyV said:

Republicans got more out of the Trump presidency than they ever dreamed, but now his usefulness has run out. Yesterday's garbage. 

This.     And the smile on Mitch's face showed they are a lot smarter about this stuff than the Dems who held on to a completely unpopular family for way too long and potentially cost themselves the last 4 years in doing so. (Do any Hillary lovers think for a moment if they had just let Biden run as is the protocol 4 years ago, they never would have had to deal with Trump? - like this election was decided based on him, last election was decided based on her).

As long as the Senate holds GOP, while Trump probably did in fact help win back some House seats, they really have no more use for him, and other than here and there he won't be able to do that in the future.

So, are you folks all ready for President Cheney in 4 years?  (*I don't believe this. I just wanted to get you guys worked up about something different/old. Oh, and it's Liz not the old guy. We've had enough of those - oh, wait.)

i personally find it so funny how you always hear republicans brag about them being smarter than democrats in this situation and that situation. if biden had run in 2016, he would have lost. the only reason he's winning now is because independents are energized to get that idiot out of the white house. 

the house and senate are almost always a very close 50/50 split, so one side saying "we're so much better at this than you" is absolute nonsense. 

if republicans are so much better at it, why did obama have 8 years in the white house with complete control of all branches for a quarter of that? why is trump going to be a one term president if they are so good at it? nothing here is shocking. republicans generally keep the same seats that they always do, same with dems. some get flipped here and there, but the most of it stays pretty status quo. 

biden isn't dynamic or likeable in any special way. he's just not trump. that's why he wins. 

which concerns me for 2024, but that's a way off. i don't see kamala getting the vote out unless she somehow becomes super likable in the next 3 years. the best she can hope for is getting the moderates on both sides but she won't win over the left or the right. 

it will be nice, if biden does win, to have 4 years of calm and not some lunatic burning down his own house. 

Pete

i like him but he lost out pretty early in the primaries. you think he's good to go again in only 4 years? maybe 8 or 12 i'd say. 

mrussel1

Biden

OnWis97 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

EdsonNascimento said:

JimmyV said:

Republicans got more out of the Trump presidency than they ever dreamed, but now his usefulness has run out. Yesterday's garbage. 

This.     And the smile on Mitch's face showed they are a lot smarter about this stuff than the Dems who held on to a completely unpopular family for way too long and potentially cost themselves the last 4 years in doing so. (Do any Hillary lovers think for a moment if they had just let Biden run as is the protocol 4 years ago, they never would have had to deal with Trump? - like this election was decided based on him, last election was decided based on her).

As long as the Senate holds GOP, while Trump probably did in fact help win back some House seats, they really have no more use for him, and other than here and there he won't be able to do that in the future.

So, are you folks all ready for President Cheney in 4 years?  (*I don't believe this. I just wanted to get you guys worked up about something different/old. Oh, and it's Liz not the old guy. We've had enough of those - oh, wait.)

i personally find it so funny how you always hear republicans brag about them being smarter than democrats in this situation and that situation. if biden had run in 2016, he would have lost. the only reason he's winning now is because independents are energized to get that idiot out of the white house. 

the house and senate are almost always a very close 50/50 split, so one side saying "we're so much better at this than you" is absolute nonsense. 

if republicans are so much better at it, why did obama have 8 years in the white house with complete control of all branches for a quarter of that? why is trump going to be a one term president if they are so good at it? nothing here is shocking. republicans generally keep the same seats that they always do, same with dems. some get flipped here and there, but the most of it stays pretty status quo. 

biden isn't dynamic or likeable in any special way. he's just not trump. that's why he wins. 

which concerns me for 2024, but that's a way off. i don't see kamala getting the vote out unless she somehow becomes super likable in the next 3 years. the best she can hope for is getting the moderates on both sides but she won't win over the left or the right. 

it will be nice, if biden does win, to have 4 years of calm and not some lunatic burning down his own house. 

I think Biden might have won.  You might not realized just how hated Hillary was and for how long.  She lost a few key states by a small number of votes.  Biden, while not the most inspiring candidate, didn't have the history of being hated. Plus he was attached to a popular president.  That got George HW Bush a term in office.

Honestly, I think Trump did much better this time. I think there was more fear of what he could in 2016 than what we know he is now.  He's gained in most demographics.  I think Biden would have won those close states Hillary lost. The fact that Trump was a miserable, contentious, self-obsessed numbskull was offset because Hillary was Hillary.

You have no idea if he gained in most demos.  There's no reliable data around it.  Also there are probably 15 million more votes to count. 

HughFreakingDillon

Biden

OnWis97 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

EdsonNascimento said:

JimmyV said:

Republicans got more out of the Trump presidency than they ever dreamed, but now his usefulness has run out. Yesterday's garbage. 

This.     And the smile on Mitch's face showed they are a lot smarter about this stuff than the Dems who held on to a completely unpopular family for way too long and potentially cost themselves the last 4 years in doing so. (Do any Hillary lovers think for a moment if they had just let Biden run as is the protocol 4 years ago, they never would have had to deal with Trump? - like this election was decided based on him, last election was decided based on her).

As long as the Senate holds GOP, while Trump probably did in fact help win back some House seats, they really have no more use for him, and other than here and there he won't be able to do that in the future.

So, are you folks all ready for President Cheney in 4 years?  (*I don't believe this. I just wanted to get you guys worked up about something different/old. Oh, and it's Liz not the old guy. We've had enough of those - oh, wait.)

i personally find it so funny how you always hear republicans brag about them being smarter than democrats in this situation and that situation. if biden had run in 2016, he would have lost. the only reason he's winning now is because independents are energized to get that idiot out of the white house. 

the house and senate are almost always a very close 50/50 split, so one side saying "we're so much better at this than you" is absolute nonsense. 

if republicans are so much better at it, why did obama have 8 years in the white house with complete control of all branches for a quarter of that? why is trump going to be a one term president if they are so good at it? nothing here is shocking. republicans generally keep the same seats that they always do, same with dems. some get flipped here and there, but the most of it stays pretty status quo. 

biden isn't dynamic or likeable in any special way. he's just not trump. that's why he wins. 

which concerns me for 2024, but that's a way off. i don't see kamala getting the vote out unless she somehow becomes super likable in the next 3 years. the best she can hope for is getting the moderates on both sides but she won't win over the left or the right. 

it will be nice, if biden does win, to have 4 years of calm and not some lunatic burning down his own house. 

I think Biden might have won.  You might not realized just how hated Hillary was and for how long.  She lost a few key states by a small number of votes.  Biden, while not the most inspiring candidate, didn't have the history of being hated. Plus he was attached to a popular president.  That got George HW Bush a term in office.

Honestly, I think Trump did much better this time. I think there was more fear of what he could in 2016 than what we know he is now.  He's gained in most demographics.  I think Biden would have won those close states Hillary lost. The fact that Trump was a miserable, contentious, self-obsessed numbskull was offset because Hillary was Hillary.

you're right. when 2016 happened, i was shell shocked. i had literally no clue that hillary was hated. and i still can't figure out why, if everyone knew she was universally hated, the dem voters put her up. i only started hearing about this "worst candidate ever" after she lost and everyone was a monday morning quarterback. 

if she was so hated, and everyone knew, why did everyone think it was a foregone conclusion she'd win?

EdsonNascimento

mrussel1 said:

EdsonNascimento said:

mrussel1 said:

EdsonNascimento said:

JimmyV said:

Republicans got more out of the Trump presidency than they ever dreamed, but now his usefulness has run out. Yesterday's garbage. 

This.     And the smile on Mitch's face showed they are a lot smarter about this stuff than the Dems who held on to a completely unpopular family for way too long and potentially cost themselves the last 4 years in doing so. (Do any Hillary lovers think for a moment if they had just let Biden run as is the protocol 4 years ago, they never would have had to deal with Trump? - like this election was decided based on him, last election was decided based on her).

As long as the Senate holds GOP, while Trump probably did in fact help win back some House seats, they really have no more use for him, and other than here and there he won't be able to do that in the future.

So, are you folks all ready for President Cheney in 4 years?  (*I don't believe this. I just wanted to get you guys worked up about something different/old. Oh, and it's Liz not the old guy. We've had enough of those - oh, wait.)

Um, it appears that your party hung onto a completely unpopular family one cycle too long as well.  It cost you the House and now the presidency.  Your arguments are really obtuse at times.  

If you're talking about Bush - a little history lesson - the 2nd Bush was a 2 term President.   the 2nd Clinton attacked her husband's victims and LOST to TRUMP!!!! Let me say that again - LOST TO TRUMP!!!!  While the corpse of Joe Biden beat him.  Hopefully she lives a long life and thinks of that every day.  

(And then btw, his brother did NOT get the nomination when Trump ran - so, seems just right to me).

Regarding the House and Bush - that's what typically happens with a party change at President. Just like when Trump had House and Senate his first 2 years (so comment on Obama?).   That didn't happen this time. That's HIGHLY unusual.  So, try again. I love you guys giving people labels because you can't think through these things on your own.  

I'm talking about the trump family. 

so, the Republicans were supposed to nominate someone else?  Jesus. I didn't think your response was that stupid. I actually gave you too  much credit.

But, btw, the GOP winning back those seats they lost in the midterm is most likely due to Trump being on the ticket.  And  the House already favored the Dems, so how could any know what you meant by lost the House in context to Trump?

What's your comment now in that context that they did the unusual of not losing the Senate in all likelihood as typically happens in these situations?  

dimitrispearljam

I'm sitting this one out

did they went to casino in vegas those count the votes?

Spiritual_Chaos

I'm sitting this one out

Georgia aint gonna happen, right?

Trump is gonna have a press conference there btw

OnWis97

Biden

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

EdsonNascimento said:

JimmyV said:

Republicans got more out of the Trump presidency than they ever dreamed, but now his usefulness has run out. Yesterday's garbage. 

This.     And the smile on Mitch's face showed they are a lot smarter about this stuff than the Dems who held on to a completely unpopular family for way too long and potentially cost themselves the last 4 years in doing so. (Do any Hillary lovers think for a moment if they had just let Biden run as is the protocol 4 years ago, they never would have had to deal with Trump? - like this election was decided based on him, last election was decided based on her).

As long as the Senate holds GOP, while Trump probably did in fact help win back some House seats, they really have no more use for him, and other than here and there he won't be able to do that in the future.

So, are you folks all ready for President Cheney in 4 years?  (*I don't believe this. I just wanted to get you guys worked up about something different/old. Oh, and it's Liz not the old guy. We've had enough of those - oh, wait.)

i personally find it so funny how you always hear republicans brag about them being smarter than democrats in this situation and that situation. if biden had run in 2016, he would have lost. the only reason he's winning now is because independents are energized to get that idiot out of the white house. 

the house and senate are almost always a very close 50/50 split, so one side saying "we're so much better at this than you" is absolute nonsense. 

if republicans are so much better at it, why did obama have 8 years in the white house with complete control of all branches for a quarter of that? why is trump going to be a one term president if they are so good at it? nothing here is shocking. republicans generally keep the same seats that they always do, same with dems. some get flipped here and there, but the most of it stays pretty status quo. 

biden isn't dynamic or likeable in any special way. he's just not trump. that's why he wins. 

which concerns me for 2024, but that's a way off. i don't see kamala getting the vote out unless she somehow becomes super likable in the next 3 years. the best she can hope for is getting the moderates on both sides but she won't win over the left or the right. 

it will be nice, if biden does win, to have 4 years of calm and not some lunatic burning down his own house. 

I think Biden might have won.  You might not realized just how hated Hillary was and for how long.  She lost a few key states by a small number of votes.  Biden, while not the most inspiring candidate, didn't have the history of being hated. Plus he was attached to a popular president.  That got George HW Bush a term in office.

Honestly, I think Trump did much better this time. I think there was more fear of what he could in 2016 than what we know he is now.  He's gained in most demographics.  I think Biden would have won those close states Hillary lost. The fact that Trump was a miserable, contentious, self-obsessed numbskull was offset because Hillary was Hillary.

you're right. when 2016 happened, i was shell shocked. i had literally no clue that hillary was hated. and i still can't figure out why, if everyone knew she was universally hated, the dem voters put her up. i only started hearing about this "worst candidate ever" after she lost and everyone was a monday morning quarterback. 

if she was so hated, and everyone knew, why did everyone think it was a foregone conclusion she'd win?

I have no idea, aside from "Trump's just such an idiot." I was nervous from day 1 about her and the hate factor.  I thought it was a terrible move by the party to push her through.*  My point stands; we'll never know, but I think Trump's narrow margin flips on the streetlight of Obama's coattails and not being Hillary. We'll never know.

I also have no idea how sarcastic you're being, being from Canada and all. She was hated from day 1 of Bill becoming a household name. I'm not exactly sure why (partly that people wanted the first lady to be June Cleaver). Eventually, she provided reasons as she became Sec. of State.  Conservatives had an irrational hatred as early as 1991, though, and it bled into moderates and apolitical folks. 

So, what if Biden loses to Trump in 2016 and Hillary runs now.  Where would we be?  I think we'd be waiting on five states to finish up so we could see how big Trump's margin is. 

*To whatever degree the party did that.  Some people think it was rigged, others don't.

OnWis97

Biden

mrussel1 said:

OnWis97 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

EdsonNascimento said:

JimmyV said:

Republicans got more out of the Trump presidency than they ever dreamed, but now his usefulness has run out. Yesterday's garbage. 

This.     And the smile on Mitch's face showed they are a lot smarter about this stuff than the Dems who held on to a completely unpopular family for way too long and potentially cost themselves the last 4 years in doing so. (Do any Hillary lovers think for a moment if they had just let Biden run as is the protocol 4 years ago, they never would have had to deal with Trump? - like this election was decided based on him, last election was decided based on her).

As long as the Senate holds GOP, while Trump probably did in fact help win back some House seats, they really have no more use for him, and other than here and there he won't be able to do that in the future.

So, are you folks all ready for President Cheney in 4 years?  (*I don't believe this. I just wanted to get you guys worked up about something different/old. Oh, and it's Liz not the old guy. We've had enough of those - oh, wait.)

i personally find it so funny how you always hear republicans brag about them being smarter than democrats in this situation and that situation. if biden had run in 2016, he would have lost. the only reason he's winning now is because independents are energized to get that idiot out of the white house. 

the house and senate are almost always a very close 50/50 split, so one side saying "we're so much better at this than you" is absolute nonsense. 

if republicans are so much better at it, why did obama have 8 years in the white house with complete control of all branches for a quarter of that? why is trump going to be a one term president if they are so good at it? nothing here is shocking. republicans generally keep the same seats that they always do, same with dems. some get flipped here and there, but the most of it stays pretty status quo. 

biden isn't dynamic or likeable in any special way. he's just not trump. that's why he wins. 

which concerns me for 2024, but that's a way off. i don't see kamala getting the vote out unless she somehow becomes super likable in the next 3 years. the best she can hope for is getting the moderates on both sides but she won't win over the left or the right. 

it will be nice, if biden does win, to have 4 years of calm and not some lunatic burning down his own house. 

I think Biden might have won.  You might not realized just how hated Hillary was and for how long.  She lost a few key states by a small number of votes.  Biden, while not the most inspiring candidate, didn't have the history of being hated. Plus he was attached to a popular president.  That got George HW Bush a term in office.

Honestly, I think Trump did much better this time. I think there was more fear of what he could in 2016 than what we know he is now.  He's gained in most demographics.  I think Biden would have won those close states Hillary lost. The fact that Trump was a miserable, contentious, self-obsessed numbskull was offset because Hillary was Hillary.

You have no idea if he gained in most demos.  There's no reliable data around it.  Also there are probably 15 million more votes to count. 

We do know he gained votes.  This was to a degree a referendum and it's hard to argue that he went down in flames. Even if he loses, Trumpism was not destroyed.

dimitrispearljam

I'm sitting this one out

Spiritual_Chaos

I'm sitting this one out

https://twitter.com/GeoffRBennett/status/1324474153634799622?s=20

Spiritual_Chaos

I'm sitting this one out

Amazing.

https://twitter.com/JasonSCampbell/status/1324478272734986241?s=20

DewieCox

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Georgia aint gonna happen, right?

Trump is gonna have a press conference there btw

Last I seen, a little under 50k to count and about 10k behind. 

Spiritual_Chaos

I'm sitting this one out

https://twitter.com/mattgaetz/status/1324469405812666375?s=20

Spiritual_Chaos

I'm sitting this one out

DewieCox said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Georgia aint gonna happen, right?

Trump is gonna have a press conference there btw

Last I seen, a little under 50k to count and about 10k behind. 

https://twitter.com/tbonier/status/1324472051873255429?s=20

mace1229

EdsonNascimento said:

JimmyV said:

Republicans got more out of the Trump presidency than they ever dreamed, but now his usefulness has run out. Yesterday's garbage. 

This.     And the smile on Mitch's face showed they are a lot smarter about this stuff than the Dems who held on to a completely unpopular family for way too long and potentially cost themselves the last 4 years in doing so. (Do any Hillary lovers think for a moment if they had just let Biden run as is the protocol 4 years ago, they never would have had to deal with Trump? - like this election was decided based on him, last election was decided based on her).

As long as the Senate holds GOP, while Trump probably did in fact help win back some House seats, they really have no more use for him, and other than here and there he won't be able to do that in the future.

So, are you folks all ready for President Cheney in 4 years?  (*I don't believe this. I just wanted to get you guys worked up about something different/old. Oh, and it's Liz not the old guy. We've had enough of those - oh, wait.)

Let Biden run as protocol? Because he was VP? I don't think that is protocol. Bush Sr and Gore are the last ones to get the nom, right? The potatoe guy Quail didn't get it, don't think Chaney tried, and Biden not until now. In the last 40 years there's only been 2 VPs to get the ticket, I don't think I'd call that protocol. Besides, Biden didn't even run 4 years ago did he?

Halifax2TheMax

OnWis97 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

OnWis97 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

EdsonNascimento said:

JimmyV said:

Republicans got more out of the Trump presidency than they ever dreamed, but now his usefulness has run out. Yesterday's garbage. 

This.     And the smile on Mitch's face showed they are a lot smarter about this stuff than the Dems who held on to a completely unpopular family for way too long and potentially cost themselves the last 4 years in doing so. (Do any Hillary lovers think for a moment if they had just let Biden run as is the protocol 4 years ago, they never would have had to deal with Trump? - like this election was decided based on him, last election was decided based on her).

As long as the Senate holds GOP, while Trump probably did in fact help win back some House seats, they really have no more use for him, and other than here and there he won't be able to do that in the future.

So, are you folks all ready for President Cheney in 4 years?  (*I don't believe this. I just wanted to get you guys worked up about something different/old. Oh, and it's Liz not the old guy. We've had enough of those - oh, wait.)

i personally find it so funny how you always hear republicans brag about them being smarter than democrats in this situation and that situation. if biden had run in 2016, he would have lost. the only reason he's winning now is because independents are energized to get that idiot out of the white house. 

the house and senate are almost always a very close 50/50 split, so one side saying "we're so much better at this than you" is absolute nonsense. 

if republicans are so much better at it, why did obama have 8 years in the white house with complete control of all branches for a quarter of that? why is trump going to be a one term president if they are so good at it? nothing here is shocking. republicans generally keep the same seats that they always do, same with dems. some get flipped here and there, but the most of it stays pretty status quo. 

biden isn't dynamic or likeable in any special way. he's just not trump. that's why he wins. 

which concerns me for 2024, but that's a way off. i don't see kamala getting the vote out unless she somehow becomes super likable in the next 3 years. the best she can hope for is getting the moderates on both sides but she won't win over the left or the right. 

it will be nice, if biden does win, to have 4 years of calm and not some lunatic burning down his own house. 

I think Biden might have won.  You might not realized just how hated Hillary was and for how long.  She lost a few key states by a small number of votes.  Biden, while not the most inspiring candidate, didn't have the history of being hated. Plus he was attached to a popular president.  That got George HW Bush a term in office.

Honestly, I think Trump did much better this time. I think there was more fear of what he could in 2016 than what we know he is now.  He's gained in most demographics.  I think Biden would have won those close states Hillary lost. The fact that Trump was a miserable, contentious, self-obsessed numbskull was offset because Hillary was Hillary.

you're right. when 2016 happened, i was shell shocked. i had literally no clue that hillary was hated. and i still can't figure out why, if everyone knew she was universally hated, the dem voters put her up. i only started hearing about this "worst candidate ever" after she lost and everyone was a monday morning quarterback. 

if she was so hated, and everyone knew, why did everyone think it was a foregone conclusion she'd win?

I have no idea, aside from "Trump's just such an idiot." I was nervous from day 1 about her and the hate factor.  I thought it was a terrible move by the party to push her through.*  My point stands; we'll never know, but I think Trump's narrow margin flips on the streetlight of Obama's coattails and not being Hillary. We'll never know.

I also have no idea how sarcastic you're being, being from Canada and all. She was hated from day 1 of Bill becoming a household name. I'm not exactly sure why (partly that people wanted the first lady to be June Cleaver). Eventually, she provided reasons as she became Sec. of State.  Conservatives had an irrational hatred as early as 1991, though, and it bled into moderates and apolitical folks. 

So, what if Biden loses to Trump in 2016 and Hillary runs now.  Where would we be?  I think we'd be waiting on five states to finish up so we could see how big Trump's margin is. 

*To whatever degree the party did that.  Some people think it was rigged, others don't.

Hillary was a Yale Law School graduate working on the House Impeachment Committee to impeach Nixon. Rodger Dodger Stoned was a Nixon devotee during that time, as were Darth Cheney, served in the admin, I believe and GHWB as Director of CIA. The repubs and the repub hate machine followed her everywhere she went to ruin her for her work against Nixon. Despite all the allegations, she released 20 years of tax returns, testified before congress for 20+ hours regarding Benghazi and has never been indicted. Oh, and she served as First Lady, an elected Senator from NY and as Secretary of State and is still currently married. Buh, buh, buh emails. Bernie and putin on the ritz ensured her 2016 loss.

OnWis97

Biden

mace1229 said:

EdsonNascimento said:

JimmyV said:

Republicans got more out of the Trump presidency than they ever dreamed, but now his usefulness has run out. Yesterday's garbage. 

This.     And the smile on Mitch's face showed they are a lot smarter about this stuff than the Dems who held on to a completely unpopular family for way too long and potentially cost themselves the last 4 years in doing so. (Do any Hillary lovers think for a moment if they had just let Biden run as is the protocol 4 years ago, they never would have had to deal with Trump? - like this election was decided based on him, last election was decided based on her).

As long as the Senate holds GOP, while Trump probably did in fact help win back some House seats, they really have no more use for him, and other than here and there he won't be able to do that in the future.

So, are you folks all ready for President Cheney in 4 years?  (*I don't believe this. I just wanted to get you guys worked up about something different/old. Oh, and it's Liz not the old guy. We've had enough of those - oh, wait.)

Let Biden run as protocol? Because he was VP? I don't think that is protocol. Bush Sr and Gore are the last ones to get the nom, right? The potatoe guy Quail didn't get it, don't think Chaney tried, and Biden not until now. In the last 40 years there's only been 2 VPs to get the ticket, I don't think I'd call that protocol. Besides, Biden didn't even run 4 years ago did he?

Quayle never had the chance because Bush I was not re-elected. I agree that it's not "protocol," though. Cheney and Biden were actually similar in that they were older and ran as "experienced" running mates to younger candidates.  So both not running made sense.  That said, Biden was coming off of a fairly popular presidency and Cheney was coming off of one that peaked six years prior. Also, Joe kind of seemed cool hanging out with Obama, while Cheney came across like a Batman villain.  I think the GOP knew Cheney would not win.  Smart move. I think the Dems really, really wanted Hillary. Bad move. (Though Biden had lost his son and all and it's quite possible he just wasn't up for it.