Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!

OnWis97

Biden

The Juggler said:

I would like to point out that telling someone that their non vote for Trump is a vote for Trump is not "shaming" them. lol. 

It's just sort of stating the obvious...

Depend on who they'd vote for if they "had to" vote for one of the two...

My philosophy on best candidate vs best candidate with a chance kinda bounces back and forth.  But with Trump in there, it's the latter...

Ledbetterman10

Biden

The Juggler said:

I would like to point out that telling someone that their non vote for Trump is a vote for Trump is not "shaming" them. lol. 

It's just sort of stating the obvious...

Trust me, I know. I've had the obvious stated to me by like 10 different people today. And by my father yesterday when I came over to help him fix the dryer. I'm like "Yeah Dad, I know, we went over this 20 years ago when I was 16....

Me: Dad, are you going to vote for Ralph Nader?
Dad: What? No. 
Me: That's who Pearl Jam's voting for.
Dad: A vote for him is a vote for Bush.
Me: It is?
Dad: Yeah, Nader will take votes away from Gore. 
Me: Oh....

And then sure enough, Nader got over 90,000 votes in Florida, Bush beat Gore by like 600 votes in Florida, and won the presidency because of it. So see? I'm not the only one around here that's willing to vote third-party even if that risks a complete idiot being elected. 

The Juggler

Biden

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

I would like to point out that telling someone that their non vote for Trump is a vote for Trump is not "shaming" them. lol. 

It's just sort of stating the obvious...

Trust me, I know. I've had the obvious stated to me by like 10 different people today. And by my father yesterday when I came over to help him fix the dryer. I'm like "Yeah Dad, I know, we went over this 20 years ago when I was 16....

Me: Dad, are you going to vote for Ralph Nader?
Dad: What? No. 
Me: That's who Pearl Jam's voting for.
Dad: A vote for him is a vote for Bush.
Me: It is?
Dad: Yeah, Nader will take votes away from Gore. 
Me: Oh....

And then sure enough, Nader got over 90,000 votes in Florida, Bush beat Gore by like 600 votes in Florida, and won the presidency because of it. So see? I'm not the only one around here that's willing to vote third-party even if that risks a complete idiot being elected. 

Yeah, voting for someone because a band says so is pretty bad too, man..

Ledbetterman10

Biden

The Juggler said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

I would like to point out that telling someone that their non vote for Trump is a vote for Trump is not "shaming" them. lol. 

It's just sort of stating the obvious...

Trust me, I know. I've had the obvious stated to me by like 10 different people today. And by my father yesterday when I came over to help him fix the dryer. I'm like "Yeah Dad, I know, we went over this 20 years ago when I was 16....

Me: Dad, are you going to vote for Ralph Nader?
Dad: What? No. 
Me: That's who Pearl Jam's voting for.
Dad: A vote for him is a vote for Bush.
Me: It is?
Dad: Yeah, Nader will take votes away from Gore. 
Me: Oh....

And then sure enough, Nader got over 90,000 votes in Florida, Bush beat Gore by like 600 votes in Florida, and won the presidency because of it. So see? I'm not the only one around here that's willing to vote third-party even if that risks a complete idiot being elected. 

Yeah, voting for someone because a band says so is pretty bad too, man..

I was 16 and just asking who he was voting for, man. 

PJPOWER

The Juggler said:

I would like to point out that telling someone that their non vote for Trump is a vote for Trump is not "shaming" them. lol. 

It's just sort of stating the obvious...

But it’s not fully true.  If someone was leaning towards a Trump vote and chose not to vote or vote 3rd party instead, how exactly is that a “vote for Trump”?  

It is “shaming” them for not voting Democrat. 

A Democrat choosing not to vote or vote 3rd party is more akin to voting for Trump than a conservative saying they will vote 3rd party in my opinion.

Kat

Biden

Some are now discussing possibilities for a new Attorney General when one may need to be chosen after November 3. Before yesterday, I thought Kamala Harris might be a great choice. Some have mentioned Sally Yates because she was in line for the position before she was fired. Some are mentioning Adam Schiff. It was mentioned that he would likely have to recuse himself in certain situations involving soul-eater so I don't know about that one, although I think he'd be terrific. So...any thoughts?

Ledbetterman10

Biden

PJPOWER said:

The Juggler said:

I would like to point out that telling someone that their non vote for Trump is a vote for Trump is not "shaming" them. lol. 

It's just sort of stating the obvious...

But it’s not fully true.  If someone was leaning towards a Trump vote and chose not to vote or vote 3rd party instead, how exactly is that a “vote for Trump”?  

It is “shaming” them for not voting Democrat. 

A Democrat choosing not to vote or vote 3rd party is more akin to voting for Trump than a conservative saying they will vote 3rd party in my opinion.

I think in my case in particular, the problem people are having is that I have said that I was willing to vote for Biden (even if I didn't really want to) until the Harris pick. But in general, I agree. Not necessarily about "shaming" because I can care less about that. But I agree with your breakdown of who a third-party vote benefits. I'm a conservative whose political ideology aligns with the Republican candidate's. But because Trump sucks, I went rouge so-to-speak in 2016 and voted Hillary. This time, I'm only willing to go halfway and vote third-party. But yeah, I'm a conservative that's not voting for Trump, so he's still losing a vote that he would normally get from someone like me. 

brianlux

Biden

gimmesometruth27 said:

i would vote the pile of dog shit on my sidewalk before voting for trump. there is absolutely nothing trump can do to get my vote besides have russia steal it.

Same here!  If someone offered me $10,000 to vote for Trump I would tell them to get lost. 

josevolution

brianlux said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

i would vote the pile of dog shit on my sidewalk before voting for trump. there is absolutely nothing trump can do to get my vote besides have russia steal it.

Same here!  If someone offered me $10,000 to vote for Trump I would tell them to get lost. 

Me too! 

The Juggler

Biden

PJPOWER said:

The Juggler said:

I would like to point out that telling someone that their non vote for Trump is a vote for Trump is not "shaming" them. lol. 

It's just sort of stating the obvious...

But it’s not fully true.  If someone was leaning towards a Trump vote and chose not to vote or vote 3rd party instead, how exactly is that a “vote for Trump”?  

It is “shaming” them for not voting Democrat. 

A Democrat choosing not to vote or vote 3rd party is more akin to voting for Trump than a conservative saying they will vote 3rd party in my opinion.

No that would be the the same thing, just flip flopping the way that person was leaning.

In this case, we have someone who knows Trump is terrible, has said so numerous times over the last four years, yet is not voting for the only candidate who has a chance of defeating him. That does nothing but help Trump. Pointing that out is not shaming, it is stating the obvious. 

gimmesometruth27

Biden

Kat said:

Some are now discussing possibilities for a new Attorney General when one may need to be chosen after November 3. Before yesterday, I thought Kamala Harris might be a great choice. Some have mentioned Sally Yates because she was in line for the position before she was fired. Some are mentioning Adam Schiff. It was mentioned that he would likely have to recuse himself in certain situations involving soul-eater so I don't know about that one, although I think he'd be terrific. So...any thoughts?

i nominate one of the obamas for attorney general.

cincybearcat

Biden

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

OnWis97 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

dankind said:

Well, I cannot change my answer to the poll officially, but I am no longer sitting this one out. 

Voting for Kamala!

I’ll trade ya poll selections. 

Aren't you PA?

Yeah, Joe lost a swing-vote. I'll be voting third party. Kamala was the deal-breaker for me. Rice, Warren, or whoever would've been fine, I guess.

Might as well just get this out of the way in one post, rather than hanging around here putting on a façade that I'll voting for Biden. I don't feel a voter is obligated to vote for anyone. Rather, I feel it's the obligation of the candidate to earn the voter's vote. And the Democrats in general, and Biden in particular, have done nothing to earn my vote (neither have Trump and the GOP for that matter). I know, to vote third-party in Pennsylvania is to the benefit of Trump. Well it's too bad that the system sucks and you can not vote for someone (I won't be voting for Trump) and it can still benefit that person. And really, despite the fact that I don't like the Democratic Party (or liberalism in general), and I think Biden is a walking corpse and puppet, I was still willing to vote for him, unless he picked Harris. 

So what's my beef with Harris you may ask. Well I don't like her grandstanding, her race-baiting, or the fact that she locked up so many people for marijuana offenses. I just in general don't like her. Now you might also ask, what about Trump? A simple search through my posts over the past two or so weeks will show that I've said on a few occasions that Trump is the worst president ever, which he is. I don't like him either. So I'm not going to vote for either. I didn't like John Kerry, but I voted for him because Bush was the worst president ever (or so I was told at the time). I didn't like Hillary, but I voted for her because Trump is Trump. I done with that stuff. I'm voting for candidates I like. I don't like Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Donald Trump, or Mike Pence. And I'm not going to be guilt-tripped into voting for Biden based on Trump's historic awfulness. Though, I will feel a bit a guilt as I waste my vote on some third-party candidate or goofy write-in vote. But I'd rather feel guilty for wasting a vote than feel like a whore for voting for someone I dislike...again. 

Also, I don't think my Biden winning Texas prediction is going to pan-out now. 

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything...

...but I always find things like the bold fascinating.  Why would you feel guilty?  I infer from this that it means you want Biden to win.  Most third-party voters will never admit to having a preference on who wins between the two candidates with a chance. But they often say things like this. Are you admitting you hope Biden wins but you just can't vote for him (and that's not a wrong answer and if you say "yes" I'm not going to try to convince you of anything. I don't have it in me spend effort on such things)?

This is the take I have on it too. I voted third part in '08 for kind of the same reason, because Sarah Palin was an abomination of a choice. But I felt fine with my choice because I was confident that neither Mccain nor Obama would not steer the country further into the ground. He already has admitted that Trump is a terrible president. 

To go third part this time around, especially in a state that could end up determining the winner is mind blowing to me. I don't see this country recovering from a second term of Donald Trump. If @Ledbetterman10 can live with playing a role in the demise of our democracy, then have at it. 

I also don't understand his flip flopping on his Texas prediction. I never thought Biden would win there, but he did. And it seems it was all predicated on Biden choosing Warren, Rice, or Bass for his running mate? Really? Yeah, I dunno about that...

Well I sent this in a PM to OnWis97 because I wanted to answer his question, but be done with this thread so I don't keep getting the same sort of responses over and over and over in this thread, but hell, since ya tagged me, I'll just copy and paste by message to him after he asked if I admit I want Biden to win. I said to him....

"To a degree, yes. I know Donald Trump is corrupt, immoral, and beholden to nobody but himself. I'm not stupid. And it's not that "can't" vote for Biden. I just don't want to. I didn't want to vote for him anyway but my dislike of Harris put it over the top. I believe you should vote for whoever you want to vote for, and vote for that person for whatever reason you want. I'm conservative so Trump's awfulness is the only reason I entertain voting for the democrats. I actually did vote for Hillary because I felt she could do the job. Biden though really does seem like a walking corpse at this point and, in my opinion, will only be president in title. The influence that not only Harris, but far-left influencers can have on him isn't to my liking. Especially after watching how democratic-led major cities have been run over the past few years. I'm not sure I want to see that on a federal level. That's not enough to get me to vote for Trump, but it's enough for me to not vote for Biden."

And I think Harris will hurt him in Texas. That's why I'm flipping my prediction. And what you mean "I never thought Biden would win there, but he did." He did? I know you LOVE polls, but him leading right now in the polls isn't the same as him winning. Don't go getting ahead of yourself, folks. 

I’m honestly amazed someone would vote for someone they know is corrupt because of policy differences. Normal elections are about policy differences with 2 good people. This ain’t that

Halifax2TheMax

Kat said:

Some are now discussing possibilities for a new Attorney General when one may need to be chosen after November 3. Before yesterday, I thought Kamala Harris might be a great choice. Some have mentioned Sally Yates because she was in line for the position before she was fired. Some are mentioning Adam Schiff. It was mentioned that he would likely have to recuse himself in certain situations involving soul-eater so I don't know about that one, although I think he'd be terrific. So...any thoughts?

Zoe Lofgren might be a decent pick. However, that said, any candidate can't just be a good/great lawyer, they also have to be able to manage a huge governmental agency. Not sure how she'd do there so...….. And its why Kamala would have been a very capable AG, she was for CA. Oh well, I'm confident that Sleepy Woke Joe will select a cabinet that is comprised of honest, capable candidates that reflect America.

Kat

Biden

Halifax2TheMax said:

Kat said:

Some are now discussing possibilities for a new Attorney General when one may need to be chosen after November 3. Before yesterday, I thought Kamala Harris might be a great choice. Some have mentioned Sally Yates because she was in line for the position before she was fired. Some are mentioning Adam Schiff. It was mentioned that he would likely have to recuse himself in certain situations involving soul-eater so I don't know about that one, although I think he'd be terrific. So...any thoughts?

Zoe Lofgren might be a decent pick. However, that said, any candidate can't just be a good/great lawyer, they also have to be able to manage a huge governmental agency. Not sure how she'd do there so...….. And its why Kamala would have been a very capable AG, she was for CA. Oh well, I'm confident that Sleepy Woke Joe will select a cabinet that is comprised of honest, capable candidates that reflect America.

He's also sent a signal that he'll be hands-off the DOJ and I want to see that. They'll need to clear out the politicization of the various agencies. This is what I'll be looking for....that the various staff members be apolitical or at least act that way. 

jeffbr

Biden

gimmesometruth27 said:

Kat said:

Some are now discussing possibilities for a new Attorney General when one may need to be chosen after November 3. Before yesterday, I thought Kamala Harris might be a great choice. Some have mentioned Sally Yates because she was in line for the position before she was fired. Some are mentioning Adam Schiff. It was mentioned that he would likely have to recuse himself in certain situations involving soul-eater so I don't know about that one, although I think he'd be terrific. So...any thoughts?

i nominate one of the obamas for attorney general.

Make it Michelle, then. I want Joe to nominate Barack to be a Supreme Court justice.

gimmesometruth27

Biden

jeffbr said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

Kat said:

Some are now discussing possibilities for a new Attorney General when one may need to be chosen after November 3. Before yesterday, I thought Kamala Harris might be a great choice. Some have mentioned Sally Yates because she was in line for the position before she was fired. Some are mentioning Adam Schiff. It was mentioned that he would likely have to recuse himself in certain situations involving soul-eater so I don't know about that one, although I think he'd be terrific. So...any thoughts?

i nominate one of the obamas for attorney general.

Make it Michelle, then. I want Joe to nominate Barack to be a Supreme Court justice.

i would take that in a heartbeat. 

Lerxst1992

Ledbetterman10 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

dankind said:

Well, I cannot change my answer to the poll officially, but I am no longer sitting this one out. 

Voting for Kamala!

I’ll trade ya poll selections. 

Aren't you PA?

Yeah, Joe lost a swing-vote. I'll be voting third party. Kamala was the deal-breaker for me. Rice, Warren, or whoever would've been fine, I guess.

Might as well just get this out of the way in one post, rather than hanging around here putting on a façade that I'll voting for Biden. I don't feel a voter is obligated to vote for anyone. Rather, I feel it's the obligation of the candidate to earn the voter's vote. And the Democrats in general, and Biden in particular, have done nothing to earn my vote (neither have Trump and the GOP for that matter). I know, to vote third-party in Pennsylvania is to the benefit of Trump. Well it's too bad that the system sucks and you can not vote for someone (I won't be voting for Trump) and it can still benefit that person. And really, despite the fact that I don't like the Democratic Party (or liberalism in general), and I think Biden is a walking corpse and puppet, I was still willing to vote for him, unless he picked Harris. 

So what's my beef with Harris you may ask. Well I don't like her grandstanding, her race-baiting, or the fact that she locked up so many people for marijuana offenses. I just in general don't like her. Now you might also ask, what about Trump? A simple search through my posts over the past two or so weeks will show that I've said on a few occasions that Trump is the worst president ever, which he is. I don't like him either. So I'm not going to vote for either. I didn't like John Kerry, but I voted for him because Bush was the worst president ever (or so I was told at the time). I didn't like Hillary, but I voted for her because Trump is Trump. I done with that stuff. I'm voting for candidates I like. I don't like Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Donald Trump, or Mike Pence. And I'm not going to be guilt-tripped into voting for Biden based on Trump's historic awfulness. Though, I will feel a bit a guilt as I waste my vote on some third-party candidate or goofy write-in vote. But I'd rather feel guilty for wasting a vote than feel like a whore for voting for someone I dislike...again. 

Also, I don't think my Biden winning Texas prediction is going to pan-out now. 

Which Of these policies do you disagree with? 

https://politico.com/2020-election/candidates-views-on-the-issues/joe-biden/

Also, Are you happy with the gop response to covid? Do you look at the current daily death totals, compare that with other modern countries, and say, this is a good record that I can live with? This is what will keep me and my family safe and alive?

Or are you judging candidates based on personality contest?

And so begins the guilt-tripping. No, I'm not happy with the GOP response to Covid, so I'm not voting for any of them. 

As for the link you posted. I disagree on....

-Abolishing capital punishment. If someone commits first-degree murder, I'm fine with them receiving the death penalty.

-Ending cash bail. At least for violent offenses. Did you see the guy in NYC that was released and then shot two people the same day?

-Raising the minimum wage to $15. It's a nice thought. But we've been hearing that for years. How about being realistic about it and incrementally increase it? Maybe $12 and then go from there? It's never going to jump to $15 federally in a single bound.

-Reparations. I'm for putting more money into low-income black communities to help. I'm not for lump-sum reparation payments. 

-Two years free college. Another unrealistic stance. And hell, I paid back my loans. And it was hard.

-No penalties for illegally entering the country.

-Letting the states decide on marijuana legalization. I'd like it federally legal.

-Scrapping past marijuana convictions. I'm for it, but that's so funny considering that Harris put so many people away for it. 

-China. We should worry about China.


And yes, I probably disagree with much more of Trump's policy stances. So again, that's why I'm not voting for Trump. And I know, I know, I know, to vote third-party in a swing-state like PA is to the benefit of Trump. That's unfortunate. Oh well.

Fair response. I am not sure about the cash bail provision either. As far as raising the minimum wage, the states like mine that have raised it they have done so incrementally each year, and it hasn’t destroyed the local economy (pre covid) like the gop would have us believe.

the big issue with being “oh well” about trump getting re-elected is he will be an unhinged authoritarian  if he wins. No one thought it possible the AG could be fired during an ongoing investigation. The Saturday Night Massacre was considered a big deal until 2018.

Election night 2018. The republicans get trounced in the only country wide elections for the House (they were saved by a mostly red state senate election). But the next day trump fires sessions and puts Barr in place to cover up the crimes he committed in 2016 to get elected.

He wins now, even with dirty tricks like shutting down the post office, look out in 2021. Authoritarian Trump takes on an entirely new meaning.

cblock4life

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

dankind said:

Well, I cannot change my answer to the poll officially, but I am no longer sitting this one out. 

Voting for Kamala!

I’ll trade ya poll selections. 

Aren't you PA?

Yeah, Joe lost a swing-vote. I'll be voting third party. Kamala was the deal-breaker for me. Rice, Warren, or whoever would've been fine, I guess.

Might as well just get this out of the way in one post, rather than hanging around here putting on a façade that I'll voting for Biden. I don't feel a voter is obligated to vote for anyone. Rather, I feel it's the obligation of the candidate to earn the voter's vote. And the Democrats in general, and Biden in particular, have done nothing to earn my vote (neither have Trump and the GOP for that matter). I know, to vote third-party in Pennsylvania is to the benefit of Trump. Well it's too bad that the system sucks and you can not vote for someone (I won't be voting for Trump) and it can still benefit that person. And really, despite the fact that I don't like the Democratic Party (or liberalism in general), and I think Biden is a walking corpse and puppet, I was still willing to vote for him, unless he picked Harris. 

So what's my beef with Harris you may ask. Well I don't like her grandstanding, her race-baiting, or the fact that she locked up so many people for marijuana offenses. I just in general don't like her. Now you might also ask, what about Trump? A simple search through my posts over the past two or so weeks will show that I've said on a few occasions that Trump is the worst president ever, which he is. I don't like him either. So I'm not going to vote for either. I didn't like John Kerry, but I voted for him because Bush was the worst president ever (or so I was told at the time). I didn't like Hillary, but I voted for her because Trump is Trump. I done with that stuff. I'm voting for candidates I like. I don't like Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Donald Trump, or Mike Pence. And I'm not going to be guilt-tripped into voting for Biden based on Trump's historic awfulness. Though, I will feel a bit a guilt as I waste my vote on some third-party candidate or goofy write-in vote. But I'd rather feel guilty for wasting a vote than feel like a whore for voting for someone I dislike...again. 

Also, I don't think my Biden winning Texas prediction is going to pan-out now. 

Keeping in mind that I totally respect your opinions and feelings, how about doing us all a favor and going for choice number four and not voting at all? It's a lot to ask I know, but the thought of 4 more years is just devastating....

benjs

Ledbetterman10 said:

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

dankind said:

Well, I cannot change my answer to the poll officially, but I am no longer sitting this one out. 

Voting for Kamala!

I’ll trade ya poll selections. 

Aren't you PA?

Yeah, Joe lost a swing-vote. I'll be voting third party. Kamala was the deal-breaker for me. Rice, Warren, or whoever would've been fine, I guess.

Might as well just get this out of the way in one post, rather than hanging around here putting on a façade that I'll voting for Biden. I don't feel a voter is obligated to vote for anyone. Rather, I feel it's the obligation of the candidate to earn the voter's vote. And the Democrats in general, and Biden in particular, have done nothing to earn my vote (neither have Trump and the GOP for that matter). I know, to vote third-party in Pennsylvania is to the benefit of Trump. Well it's too bad that the system sucks and you can not vote for someone (I won't be voting for Trump) and it can still benefit that person. And really, despite the fact that I don't like the Democratic Party (or liberalism in general), and I think Biden is a walking corpse and puppet, I was still willing to vote for him, unless he picked Harris. 

So what's my beef with Harris you may ask. Well I don't like her grandstanding, her race-baiting, or the fact that she locked up so many people for marijuana offenses. I just in general don't like her. Now you might also ask, what about Trump? A simple search through my posts over the past two or so weeks will show that I've said on a few occasions that Trump is the worst president ever, which he is. I don't like him either. So I'm not going to vote for either. I didn't like John Kerry, but I voted for him because Bush was the worst president ever (or so I was told at the time). I didn't like Hillary, but I voted for her because Trump is Trump. I done with that stuff. I'm voting for candidates I like. I don't like Joe Biden, Kamala Harris, Donald Trump, or Mike Pence. And I'm not going to be guilt-tripped into voting for Biden based on Trump's historic awfulness. Though, I will feel a bit a guilt as I waste my vote on some third-party candidate or goofy write-in vote. But I'd rather feel guilty for wasting a vote than feel like a whore for voting for someone I dislike...again. 

Also, I don't think my Biden winning Texas prediction is going to pan-out now. 

If you feel a third-party candidate is a wasted vote - then you understand that there are only two candidates who have a chance at victory. Based on that, whether you like it or not, to spoil your ballot or to vote third party, would mean to exert 50% of what you could have to eliminate a Trump presidency. Again, whether you like it or not, Biden and Trump are now inextricably linked, in that the loss of one indicates the victory of the other. That means choosing not to vote Trump, is already a help to Biden - but because of some internal pride, you can't find it in you to double your efforts.

dignin

@Ledbetterman10

Can I buy your vote back to Biden? I have quite a few PJ posters from Canadian gigs still in tubes that could go to good use.

Maybe half serious, maybe full.