Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!

Lerxst1992

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

People overreact to these gaffes. My goodness, folks. Have you not paid attention to Biden for the last 40 years? He makes gaffes regularly. But he's running against a guy who says and utterly crazy shit on an hourly basis. That is why this stuff today, like the "you ain't black" thing from three months ago won't amount to a hill of beans either. 

Jeez. 

i have not paid attention to biden the last 40 years. i didn't know who he was until he was VP. judging by the average american voter, most of them hadn't either. 

it won't amount to a hill of beans to people who are already voting for him. but you can't honestly tell me that fence sitters and trump supporters considering moving left aren't looking at this and going "hmm....maybe he really is losing his mind". 

just because it's not a big deal to you, doesn't mean it won't have an effect on the election. 

No offense but aren't you from Canada? Joe Biden has been one of the most recognizable politicians in this country for decades. This is the third time he's ran for president! People are very familiar with him. And most people have already made up their minds about him and his favorability ratings are significantly higher than HRC's. 

Trump saying Biden hates God and the bible has already gotten more attention to Joe's gaffe yesterday. That's what I'm talking about. For every Biden gaffe, there's 10 Trump gaffes/blunders/purposefully hateful thing said that people pay more attention to. 

Biden is by far not the perfect candidate. I agree with others that the Biden from ten years ago would've been a lot better but...the one thing he does have going for him is that people do know him and that people generally like him, gaffes and all. 

All of this is part of the reason why he has held such a steady lead for so long, though the numbers are tightening a little. Looking forward to some more good polling leading up to the virtual conventions...

yes, i am from canada, no offence taken. i just think you are overestimating the knowledge of the average american voter. i'm not referring to people like you and everyone else here who are engaged politically. i'm talking about the people who vote but only do so by the "knowledge" they get from attack ads on tv. 

i don't think many average people knew who the fuck most of the senators were prior to the extreme political polarization of the last decade and social media. 

of course, you could be right. maybe he was one of the most recognizable senators. maybe everybody does know him. i just don't think the american electorate is as aware as you think they are. it's not just america. ask any canadian (besides the people who post here) who the premier of any given province they don't live in that isn't named Ford, and you'll get 8/10 wrong answers, guaranteed. 

i know there are more trump gaffes than there are biden ones. that was never my point. my point is just because he outnumbers them, don't believe for one second it still won't have an effect on the election. it will. 

I completely agree that the average voter knows little about Biden’s or most senators’ career. Hell, I bet in 2016, the average voter saw Trump as a successful businessman, and Hillary simply as Bill Clinton’s wife. And you make a good point that social media and political polarization might have given some politicians a higher profile, but even then, how many of the 128 million or so voters are on social media? And of them, how many give a shit about politics? 

I like to think I’m somewhat informed on American politics. But I never heard of Joe Biden (or for that matter, Gore, Cheney, or Pence) until they were vice-president. That’s despite them all having long, successful careers in politics.  

Off the top of my head, here’s what I know about Joe Biden’s career:

-Was a senator for a long time 
-Ran for president in the 1988 primary
-Dropped out after getting caught plagiarizing a British politician’s speech
-Authored a significant mid-90’s crime bill (I think)
-Ran for president in the 2008 primary
-Was Obama’s VP
-Had a hand in the economic recovery in 2009 

That’s not a lot, but that’s probably more than most people know about him, especially voters younger than me (I’m 36). I guess people can look back and research his career if they want. But they probably won’t. Instead they’ll stumble upon clips of him sounding incoherent, memes of him sniffing the necks of teenage girls, and compilations of his racially insensitive “gaffes” that go back decades. 

Gore Biden and Cheney were well known before they were VP.

Al Gore was elected VP when I was 9 years old. "Well known" people to me at that time were  Marc Summers from Double Dare, Bill and Ted, and Steve Urkel. 

Dick Cheney was elected VP when I was 17 years old. "Well known" people to me at that time were Michael Jordan, Eddie Vedder, and Jerry Seinfeld.

Joe Biden was elected VP when I was 25 years old. In this instance, it's reasonable to think I might have heard of him (especially since I also have Scranton ties), but I didn't.

Whew I thought I was the only millennial in here.

Wait, what? I thought Pearl Jam had a minimum age requirement? Shouldn’t someone walk you folks over to the Ed Sheeran Forum?

Ledbetterman10

Biden

Well of course he had more name recognition than the other 2020 primary candidates. He was Vice-President for 8 years. But before he was VP, and despite him being, as you said few posts back, one of the most recognizable politicians for decades, he had to drop out of the 2008 primary after Iowa after getting 1% of the vote. I know, he was going up against much, much more recognizable Hillary and a once-in-a-lifetime politician in Obama. But still, maybe he wasn’t as recognizable before he was VP as you’re suggesting he was. 

He’s only the nominee now because the Democrats couldn’t come up with anyone better, and he’s only polling ahead of Trump cause Trump’s the worst president ever. 

And I don’t think he’ll get a boost following the convention, even if others have in the past. And it’s going to be because of his running mate. I don’t think many people that are on the fence are going to see his VP pick and say “Oh well NOW I’m voting for Biden.” I think any independent or Trump-hating Republican that is going to vote for Biden has already made up their mind that they will. All his VP pick can do is scare potential members of that voting block away. 

The Juggler

Biden

Ledbetterman10 said:

Well of course he had more name recognition than the other 2020 primary candidates. He was Vice-President for 8 years. But before he was VP, and despite him being, as you said few posts back, one of the most recognizable politicians for decades, he had to drop out of the 2008 primary after Iowa after getting 1% of the vote. I know, he was going up against much, much more recognizable Hillary and a once-in-a-lifetime politician in Obama. But still, maybe he wasn’t as recognizable before he was VP as you’re suggesting he was. 

He’s only the nominee now because the Democrats couldn’t come up with anyone better, and he’s only polling ahead of Trump cause Trump’s the worst president ever. 

And I don’t think he’ll get a boost following the convention, even if others have in the past. And it’s going to be because of his running mate. I don’t think many people that are on the fence are going to see his VP pick and say “Oh well NOW I’m voting for Biden.” I think any independent or Trump-hating Republican that is going to vote for Biden has already made up their mind that they will. All his VP pick can do is scare potential members of that voting block away. 

It's true that a lot more people have their minds made up this year compared to 2016, which bodes well for Biden. But name me one nominee in the history of this country that has not gotten even a little convention bump. If a candidate as unliked as HRC can get one, Biden will as well. 

Not doing well in the Iowa primary in '08 doesn't mean people didn't know who he was, right? They just preferred other candidates more. And then he was VP for 8 years which further enhanced his brand. 

The bottom line is people do know him and he's a hell of a lot more likable than HRC was. That's the point. And that is why Trump is having such a hard time defining him as someone he's not, a far left wing puppet. Think about, if people didn't know him and/or didn't like him like most didn't like HRC, don't you think Trump's relentless ad campaign since May would have had more of an effect than about 1 or 2%?

It doesn't get much more steady than this:

The Juggler

Biden

And not to cherry pick, but this one that came out today is especially tasty as it's a good sample size of likely voters:



Despite all of Trump's negative ads trying to frame Biden they way he wants, it's just not working. I mean there is still a lot of time left but so far, it's not working. 

Ledbetterman10

Biden

The Juggler said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Well of course he had more name recognition than the other 2020 primary candidates. He was Vice-President for 8 years. But before he was VP, and despite him being, as you said few posts back, one of the most recognizable politicians for decades, he had to drop out of the 2008 primary after Iowa after getting 1% of the vote. I know, he was going up against much, much more recognizable Hillary and a once-in-a-lifetime politician in Obama. But still, maybe he wasn’t as recognizable before he was VP as you’re suggesting he was. 

He’s only the nominee now because the Democrats couldn’t come up with anyone better, and he’s only polling ahead of Trump cause Trump’s the worst president ever. 

And I don’t think he’ll get a boost following the convention, even if others have in the past. And it’s going to be because of his running mate. I don’t think many people that are on the fence are going to see his VP pick and say “Oh well NOW I’m voting for Biden.” I think any independent or Trump-hating Republican that is going to vote for Biden has already made up their mind that they will. All his VP pick can do is scare potential members of that voting block away. 

It's true that a lot more people have their minds made up this year compared to 2016, which bodes well for Biden. But name me one nominee in the history of this country that has not gotten even a little convention bump. If a candidate as unliked as HRC can get one, Biden will as well. 

Not doing well in the Iowa primary in '08 doesn't mean people didn't know who he was, right? They just preferred other candidates more. And then he was VP for 8 years which further enhanced his brand. 

The bottom line is people do know him and he's a hell of a lot more likable than HRC was. That's the point. And that is why Trump is having such a hard time defining him as someone he's not, a far left wing puppet. Think about, if people didn't know him and/or didn't like him like most didn't like HRC, don't you think Trump's relentless ad campaign since May would have had more of an effect than about 1 or 2%?

It doesn't get much more steady than this:

Well let’s just see how the polls look say two weeks after the running-mate pick. I request of you a full 538 report two weeks after he makes the pick. I contend that the only things that can hurt Biden at this point is the running-mate pick, and him coming off like a blathering fool (even with Trump’s own idiocy on display) in the debates. I’ll be happy to be wrong on this though. 

Lerxst1992

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Well of course he had more name recognition than the other 2020 primary candidates. He was Vice-President for 8 years. But before he was VP, and despite him being, as you said few posts back, one of the most recognizable politicians for decades, he had to drop out of the 2008 primary after Iowa after getting 1% of the vote. I know, he was going up against much, much more recognizable Hillary and a once-in-a-lifetime politician in Obama. But still, maybe he wasn’t as recognizable before he was VP as you’re suggesting he was. 

He’s only the nominee now because the Democrats couldn’t come up with anyone better, and he’s only polling ahead of Trump cause Trump’s the worst president ever. 

And I don’t think he’ll get a boost following the convention, even if others have in the past. And it’s going to be because of his running mate. I don’t think many people that are on the fence are going to see his VP pick and say “Oh well NOW I’m voting for Biden.” I think any independent or Trump-hating Republican that is going to vote for Biden has already made up their mind that they will. All his VP pick can do is scare potential members of that voting block away. 

It's true that a lot more people have their minds made up this year compared to 2016, which bodes well for Biden. But name me one nominee in the history of this country that has not gotten even a little convention bump. If a candidate as unliked as HRC can get one, Biden will as well. 

Not doing well in the Iowa primary in '08 doesn't mean people didn't know who he was, right? They just preferred other candidates more. And then he was VP for 8 years which further enhanced his brand. 

The bottom line is people do know him and he's a hell of a lot more likable than HRC was. That's the point. And that is why Trump is having such a hard time defining him as someone he's not, a far left wing puppet. Think about, if people didn't know him and/or didn't like him like most didn't like HRC, don't you think Trump's relentless ad campaign since May would have had more of an effect than about 1 or 2%?

It doesn't get much more steady than this:

Well let’s just see how the polls look say two weeks after the running-mate pick. I request of you a full 538 report two weeks after he makes the pick. I contend that the only things that can hurt Biden at this point is the running-mate pick, and him coming off like a blathering fool (even with Trump’s own idiocy on display) in the debates. I’ll be happy to be wrong on this though. 

I’d say wait until both conventions are over, so the artificial convention bump is filtered for both candidates. Many polls are much closer than the 13%.

As far as people voting for name recognition, I’ll submit Bill Clinton and to a lesser extent Obama as two candidates who were not well know before the primaries but won the presidency. Clinton’s primary path was similar to Biden. He did quite well in republican southern states early and built a solid lead. For Obama, he was pretty much known only for one big speech before he ran for president.

mrussel1

Biden

Anything over 50% is huge.

gimmesometruth27

Biden

i am not buying any of these polls. i am working like biden is legitimately behind by 10 points.

Halifax2TheMax

gimmesometruth27 said:

i am not buying any of these polls. i am working like biden is legitimately behind by 10 points.

Work it like he’s down 13. The path for Team Trump Treason to steal this election is being well laid.

mrussel1

Biden

The only thing that can save Trump's election fate is if he promises to solve the Iran crisis within a month of being re-elected.  I just don't see how he can make such a promise. 

The Juggler

Biden

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Well of course he had more name recognition than the other 2020 primary candidates. He was Vice-President for 8 years. But before he was VP, and despite him being, as you said few posts back, one of the most recognizable politicians for decades, he had to drop out of the 2008 primary after Iowa after getting 1% of the vote. I know, he was going up against much, much more recognizable Hillary and a once-in-a-lifetime politician in Obama. But still, maybe he wasn’t as recognizable before he was VP as you’re suggesting he was. 

He’s only the nominee now because the Democrats couldn’t come up with anyone better, and he’s only polling ahead of Trump cause Trump’s the worst president ever. 

And I don’t think he’ll get a boost following the convention, even if others have in the past. And it’s going to be because of his running mate. I don’t think many people that are on the fence are going to see his VP pick and say “Oh well NOW I’m voting for Biden.” I think any independent or Trump-hating Republican that is going to vote for Biden has already made up their mind that they will. All his VP pick can do is scare potential members of that voting block away. 

It's true that a lot more people have their minds made up this year compared to 2016, which bodes well for Biden. But name me one nominee in the history of this country that has not gotten even a little convention bump. If a candidate as unliked as HRC can get one, Biden will as well. 

Not doing well in the Iowa primary in '08 doesn't mean people didn't know who he was, right? They just preferred other candidates more. And then he was VP for 8 years which further enhanced his brand. 

The bottom line is people do know him and he's a hell of a lot more likable than HRC was. That's the point. And that is why Trump is having such a hard time defining him as someone he's not, a far left wing puppet. Think about, if people didn't know him and/or didn't like him like most didn't like HRC, don't you think Trump's relentless ad campaign since May would have had more of an effect than about 1 or 2%?

It doesn't get much more steady than this:

Well let’s just see how the polls look say two weeks after the running-mate pick. I request of you a full 538 report two weeks after he makes the pick. I contend that the only things that can hurt Biden at this point is the running-mate pick, and him coming off like a blathering fool (even with Trump’s own idiocy on display) in the debates. I’ll be happy to be wrong on this though. 

He's going to pick the VP this week. The convention is next week. That is what when he will get the bump. The week after, I believe, is the RNC convention when Trump will likely get his bump. Everything should settle back down a few weeks prior to the debates.

50.1% right now. To see if there's a bump, check in early next week! If he doesn't get a bump, I reckon it will be the first time in the history of polling. But you never know...

The Juggler

Biden

mrussel1 said:

The only thing that can save Trump's election fate is if he promises to solve the Iran crisis within a month of being re-elected.  I just don't see how he can make such a promise. 

I don't know. Biden is a huge favorite but this is Trump and this is the god forsaken year of 2020. Halifax is right in that they are doing everything in their power to sabotage this thing. Moron left wing voters not showing up like in 2016 combined with a lower than expected turnout, topped off with Trump fucking up the mail could be devastating. 

He's up 8. Pretend he's down 8. 

mrussel1

Biden

The Juggler said:

mrussel1 said:

The only thing that can save Trump's election fate is if he promises to solve the Iran crisis within a month of being re-elected.  I just don't see how he can make such a promise. 

I don't know. Biden is a huge favorite but this is Trump and this is the god forsaken year of 2020. Halifax is right in that they are doing everything in their power to sabotage this thing. Moron left wing voters not showing up like in 2016 combined with a lower than expected turnout, topped off with Trump fucking up the mail could be devastating. 

He's up 8. Pretend he's down 8. 

Dammit he outsmarted the Dems again!  https://thehill.com/policy/international/511347-trump-vows-deal-with-iran-within-four-weeks-if-reelected

Ledbetterman10

Biden

The Juggler said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

The Juggler said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Well of course he had more name recognition than the other 2020 primary candidates. He was Vice-President for 8 years. But before he was VP, and despite him being, as you said few posts back, one of the most recognizable politicians for decades, he had to drop out of the 2008 primary after Iowa after getting 1% of the vote. I know, he was going up against much, much more recognizable Hillary and a once-in-a-lifetime politician in Obama. But still, maybe he wasn’t as recognizable before he was VP as you’re suggesting he was. 

He’s only the nominee now because the Democrats couldn’t come up with anyone better, and he’s only polling ahead of Trump cause Trump’s the worst president ever. 

And I don’t think he’ll get a boost following the convention, even if others have in the past. And it’s going to be because of his running mate. I don’t think many people that are on the fence are going to see his VP pick and say “Oh well NOW I’m voting for Biden.” I think any independent or Trump-hating Republican that is going to vote for Biden has already made up their mind that they will. All his VP pick can do is scare potential members of that voting block away. 

It's true that a lot more people have their minds made up this year compared to 2016, which bodes well for Biden. But name me one nominee in the history of this country that has not gotten even a little convention bump. If a candidate as unliked as HRC can get one, Biden will as well. 

Not doing well in the Iowa primary in '08 doesn't mean people didn't know who he was, right? They just preferred other candidates more. And then he was VP for 8 years which further enhanced his brand. 

The bottom line is people do know him and he's a hell of a lot more likable than HRC was. That's the point. And that is why Trump is having such a hard time defining him as someone he's not, a far left wing puppet. Think about, if people didn't know him and/or didn't like him like most didn't like HRC, don't you think Trump's relentless ad campaign since May would have had more of an effect than about 1 or 2%?

It doesn't get much more steady than this:

Well let’s just see how the polls look say two weeks after the running-mate pick. I request of you a full 538 report two weeks after he makes the pick. I contend that the only things that can hurt Biden at this point is the running-mate pick, and him coming off like a blathering fool (even with Trump’s own idiocy on display) in the debates. I’ll be happy to be wrong on this though. 

He's going to pick the VP this week. The convention is next week. That is what when he will get the bump. The week after, I believe, is the RNC convention when Trump will likely get his bump. Everything should settle back down a few weeks prior to the debates.

50.1% right now. To see if there's a bump, check in early next week! If he doesn't get a bump, I reckon it will be the first time in the history of polling. But you never know...

Well from the moment Trump came down the escalator, we’ve seen plenty of “first time in history” instances in relation to the presidency, so anything’s possible. And I agree with gimmesometruth and Halifax that no matter what the polls say, things should be approached like Biden is behind. The last thing you wanna see is people feel, as many did with Hillary, that it’s already in the bag. While voting is kinda fun for me based on my voting location (right in, right out), others have to wait in line for an ungodly amount of time. If those people believe that the result isn’t in question, they might not bother going out to vote. 

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

mrussel1 said:

The only thing that can save Trump's election fate is if he promises to solve the Iran crisis within a month of being re-elected.  I just don't see how he can make such a promise. 

I don't know. Biden is a huge favorite but this is Trump and this is the god forsaken year of 2020. Halifax is right in that they are doing everything in their power to sabotage this thing. Moron left wing voters not showing up like in 2016 combined with a lower than expected turnout, topped off with Trump fucking up the mail could be devastating. 

He's up 8. Pretend he's down 8. 

Dammit he outsmarted the Dems again!  https://thehill.com/policy/international/511347-trump-vows-deal-with-iran-within-four-weeks-if-reelected

Team Trump Treason hasn't made a deal with anyone. Why would anyone believe this crock of shit? Is Iran the most pressing matter in the moment? How about if we see Team Trump Treason's tax returns first? Just another empty promise. Suckers.

mrussel1

Biden

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

mrussel1 said:

The only thing that can save Trump's election fate is if he promises to solve the Iran crisis within a month of being re-elected.  I just don't see how he can make such a promise. 

I don't know. Biden is a huge favorite but this is Trump and this is the god forsaken year of 2020. Halifax is right in that they are doing everything in their power to sabotage this thing. Moron left wing voters not showing up like in 2016 combined with a lower than expected turnout, topped off with Trump fucking up the mail could be devastating. 

He's up 8. Pretend he's down 8. 

Dammit he outsmarted the Dems again!  https://thehill.com/policy/international/511347-trump-vows-deal-with-iran-within-four-weeks-if-reelected

Team Trump Treason hasn't made a deal with anyone. Why would anyone believe this crock of shit? Is Iran the most pressing matter in the moment? How about if we see Team Trump Treason's tax returns first? Just another empty promise. Suckers.

No way man.  The article said some people stood and cheered.  Lock it in, the deal is done.  I'll add that to the list of accomplishments, highlighted by his tremendous healthcare plan he rolled out last week.  

Halifax2TheMax

I'm really looking forward to all of those Red States that receive more federal dollars than they pay in having to self fund the second round of covid bailout because that's what Team Trump Treason's EO effectively does.. All of those low tax, fiscally conservative Red legislatures trying to figure out how or where the money is going to come from and allow their citizenry to suffer the consequences. You know, evictions, mortgage foreclosures, going hungry, medical bills, less police/fire funding, etc. Question remains, will they vote blue or stick it to the libs?

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

mrussel1 said:

The only thing that can save Trump's election fate is if he promises to solve the Iran crisis within a month of being re-elected.  I just don't see how he can make such a promise. 

I don't know. Biden is a huge favorite but this is Trump and this is the god forsaken year of 2020. Halifax is right in that they are doing everything in their power to sabotage this thing. Moron left wing voters not showing up like in 2016 combined with a lower than expected turnout, topped off with Trump fucking up the mail could be devastating. 

He's up 8. Pretend he's down 8. 

Dammit he outsmarted the Dems again!  https://thehill.com/policy/international/511347-trump-vows-deal-with-iran-within-four-weeks-if-reelected

Team Trump Treason hasn't made a deal with anyone. Why would anyone believe this crock of shit? Is Iran the most pressing matter in the moment? How about if we see Team Trump Treason's tax returns first? Just another empty promise. Suckers.

No way man.  The article said some people stood and cheered.  Lock it in, the deal is done.  I'll add that to the list of accomplishments, highlighted by his tremendous healthcare plan he rolled out last week.  

Well then, I guess Team Trump Treason is worthy of Mount Rushmore. Maybe add putin on the ritz and Little Rocket Man too, so as to be in great company?

mrussel1

Biden

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

Halifax2TheMax said:

mrussel1 said:

The Juggler said:

mrussel1 said:

The only thing that can save Trump's election fate is if he promises to solve the Iran crisis within a month of being re-elected.  I just don't see how he can make such a promise. 

I don't know. Biden is a huge favorite but this is Trump and this is the god forsaken year of 2020. Halifax is right in that they are doing everything in their power to sabotage this thing. Moron left wing voters not showing up like in 2016 combined with a lower than expected turnout, topped off with Trump fucking up the mail could be devastating. 

He's up 8. Pretend he's down 8. 

Dammit he outsmarted the Dems again!  https://thehill.com/policy/international/511347-trump-vows-deal-with-iran-within-four-weeks-if-reelected

Team Trump Treason hasn't made a deal with anyone. Why would anyone believe this crock of shit? Is Iran the most pressing matter in the moment? How about if we see Team Trump Treason's tax returns first? Just another empty promise. Suckers.

No way man.  The article said some people stood and cheered.  Lock it in, the deal is done.  I'll add that to the list of accomplishments, highlighted by his tremendous healthcare plan he rolled out last week.  

Well then, I guess Team Trump Treason is worthy of Mount Rushmore. Maybe add putin on the ritz and Little Rocket Man too, so as to be in great company?

I like the way you think. 

mrussel1

Biden

Halifax2TheMax said:

I'm really looking forward to all of those Red States that receive more federal dollars than they pay in having to self fund the second round of covid bailout because that's what Team Trump Treason's EO effectively does.. All of those low tax, fiscally conservative Red legislatures trying to figure out how or where the money is going to come from and allow their citizenry to suffer the consequences. You know, evictions, mortgage foreclosures, going hungry, medical bills, less police/fire funding, etc. Question remains, will they vote blue or stick it to the libs?

..particularly those with balanced budget amendments.