Biden vs Trump 2020 - vote now and discuss!

mrussel1

Biden

HughFreakingDillon said:

Kat said:

I think Joe is more progressive than he's given credit for...but my biggest hope for right now is that he sets us back on a good course. I want him to repair our damaged reputation in the world with our allies and staff the government with people who can give us the services we pay taxes for...and reverse some things that have been put in place since 2016. I want the children and others out of cages, so I hear that's getting more judges in place to hear the asylum cases, things like that. If he can do that, then we can progress with other things. Our government is set to move slowly, not lurch from this and that...and we sure have been lurching. I can't wait to vote. 
Added: Also, I'm looking forward to a lot less politicization of EVERYTHING. 

it was pretty recent he was against legalizing gay marriage and cannabis. 

however, anyone looks progressive next to today's republican party. but progressive? I don't buy it. 

He was ahead of Obama regarding support for gay marriage.  He led the administration's move to support during those years. 

mrussel1

Biden

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

People overreact to these gaffes. My goodness, folks. Have you not paid attention to Biden for the last 40 years? He makes gaffes regularly. But he's running against a guy who says and utterly crazy shit on an hourly basis. That is why this stuff today, like the "you ain't black" thing from three months ago won't amount to a hill of beans either. 

Jeez. 

i have not paid attention to biden the last 40 years. i didn't know who he was until he was VP. judging by the average american voter, most of them hadn't either. 

it won't amount to a hill of beans to people who are already voting for him. but you can't honestly tell me that fence sitters and trump supporters considering moving left aren't looking at this and going "hmm....maybe he really is losing his mind". 

just because it's not a big deal to you, doesn't mean it won't have an effect on the election. 

No offense but aren't you from Canada? Joe Biden has been one of the most recognizable politicians in this country for decades. This is the third time he's ran for president! People are very familiar with him. And most people have already made up their minds about him and his favorability ratings are significantly higher than HRC's. 

Trump saying Biden hates God and the bible has already gotten more attention to Joe's gaffe yesterday. That's what I'm talking about. For every Biden gaffe, there's 10 Trump gaffes/blunders/purposefully hateful thing said that people pay more attention to. 

Biden is by far not the perfect candidate. I agree with others that the Biden from ten years ago would've been a lot better but...the one thing he does have going for him is that people do know him and that people generally like him, gaffes and all. 

All of this is part of the reason why he has held such a steady lead for so long, though the numbers are tightening a little. Looking forward to some more good polling leading up to the virtual conventions...

yes, i am from canada, no offence taken. i just think you are overestimating the knowledge of the average american voter. i'm not referring to people like you and everyone else here who are engaged politically. i'm talking about the people who vote but only do so by the "knowledge" they get from attack ads on tv. 

i don't think many average people knew who the fuck most of the senators were prior to the extreme political polarization of the last decade and social media. 

of course, you could be right. maybe he was one of the most recognizable senators. maybe everybody does know him. i just don't think the american electorate is as aware as you think they are. it's not just america. ask any canadian (besides the people who post here) who the premier of any given province they don't live in that isn't named Ford, and you'll get 8/10 wrong answers, guaranteed. 

i know there are more trump gaffes than there are biden ones. that was never my point. my point is just because he outnumbers them, don't believe for one second it still won't have an effect on the election. it will. 

All my friends from Canada think we are crazy for having two right wing parties here....

The party is a reflection of the electorate 

mickeyrat

Biden

mrussel1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

Kat said:

I think Joe is more progressive than he's given credit for...but my biggest hope for right now is that he sets us back on a good course. I want him to repair our damaged reputation in the world with our allies and staff the government with people who can give us the services we pay taxes for...and reverse some things that have been put in place since 2016. I want the children and others out of cages, so I hear that's getting more judges in place to hear the asylum cases, things like that. If he can do that, then we can progress with other things. Our government is set to move slowly, not lurch from this and that...and we sure have been lurching. I can't wait to vote. 
Added: Also, I'm looking forward to a lot less politicization of EVERYTHING. 

it was pretty recent he was against legalizing gay marriage and cannabis. 

however, anyone looks progressive next to today's republican party. but progressive? I don't buy it. 

He was ahead of Obama regarding support for gay marriage.  He led the administration's move to support during those years. 

aint that a bitch? devout catholic supports abortion rights and shifted an administration to the right side of history?

Ledbetterman10

Biden

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

People overreact to these gaffes. My goodness, folks. Have you not paid attention to Biden for the last 40 years? He makes gaffes regularly. But he's running against a guy who says and utterly crazy shit on an hourly basis. That is why this stuff today, like the "you ain't black" thing from three months ago won't amount to a hill of beans either. 

Jeez. 

i have not paid attention to biden the last 40 years. i didn't know who he was until he was VP. judging by the average american voter, most of them hadn't either. 

it won't amount to a hill of beans to people who are already voting for him. but you can't honestly tell me that fence sitters and trump supporters considering moving left aren't looking at this and going "hmm....maybe he really is losing his mind". 

just because it's not a big deal to you, doesn't mean it won't have an effect on the election. 

No offense but aren't you from Canada? Joe Biden has been one of the most recognizable politicians in this country for decades. This is the third time he's ran for president! People are very familiar with him. And most people have already made up their minds about him and his favorability ratings are significantly higher than HRC's. 

Trump saying Biden hates God and the bible has already gotten more attention to Joe's gaffe yesterday. That's what I'm talking about. For every Biden gaffe, there's 10 Trump gaffes/blunders/purposefully hateful thing said that people pay more attention to. 

Biden is by far not the perfect candidate. I agree with others that the Biden from ten years ago would've been a lot better but...the one thing he does have going for him is that people do know him and that people generally like him, gaffes and all. 

All of this is part of the reason why he has held such a steady lead for so long, though the numbers are tightening a little. Looking forward to some more good polling leading up to the virtual conventions...

yes, i am from canada, no offence taken. i just think you are overestimating the knowledge of the average american voter. i'm not referring to people like you and everyone else here who are engaged politically. i'm talking about the people who vote but only do so by the "knowledge" they get from attack ads on tv. 

i don't think many average people knew who the fuck most of the senators were prior to the extreme political polarization of the last decade and social media. 

of course, you could be right. maybe he was one of the most recognizable senators. maybe everybody does know him. i just don't think the american electorate is as aware as you think they are. it's not just america. ask any canadian (besides the people who post here) who the premier of any given province they don't live in that isn't named Ford, and you'll get 8/10 wrong answers, guaranteed. 

i know there are more trump gaffes than there are biden ones. that was never my point. my point is just because he outnumbers them, don't believe for one second it still won't have an effect on the election. it will. 

I completely agree that the average voter knows little about Biden’s or most senators’ career. Hell, I bet in 2016, the average voter saw Trump as a successful businessman, and Hillary simply as Bill Clinton’s wife. And you make a good point that social media and political polarization might have given some politicians a higher profile, but even then, how many of the 128 million or so voters are on social media? And of them, how many give a shit about politics? 

I like to think I’m somewhat informed on American politics. But I never heard of Joe Biden (or for that matter, Gore, Cheney, or Pence) until they were vice-president. That’s despite them all having long, successful careers in politics.  

Off the top of my head, here’s what I know about Joe Biden’s career:

-Was a senator for a long time 
-Ran for president in the 1988 primary
-Dropped out after getting caught plagiarizing a British politician’s speech
-Authored a significant mid-90’s crime bill (I think)
-Ran for president in the 2008 primary
-Was Obama’s VP
-Had a hand in the economic recovery in 2009 

That’s not a lot, but that’s probably more than most people know about him, especially voters younger than me (I’m 36). I guess people can look back and research his career if they want. But they probably won’t. Instead they’ll stumble upon clips of him sounding incoherent, memes of him sniffing the necks of teenage girls, and compilations of his racially insensitive “gaffes” that go back decades. 

static111

Biden

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

People overreact to these gaffes. My goodness, folks. Have you not paid attention to Biden for the last 40 years? He makes gaffes regularly. But he's running against a guy who says and utterly crazy shit on an hourly basis. That is why this stuff today, like the "you ain't black" thing from three months ago won't amount to a hill of beans either. 

Jeez. 

i have not paid attention to biden the last 40 years. i didn't know who he was until he was VP. judging by the average american voter, most of them hadn't either. 

it won't amount to a hill of beans to people who are already voting for him. but you can't honestly tell me that fence sitters and trump supporters considering moving left aren't looking at this and going "hmm....maybe he really is losing his mind". 

just because it's not a big deal to you, doesn't mean it won't have an effect on the election. 

No offense but aren't you from Canada? Joe Biden has been one of the most recognizable politicians in this country for decades. This is the third time he's ran for president! People are very familiar with him. And most people have already made up their minds about him and his favorability ratings are significantly higher than HRC's. 

Trump saying Biden hates God and the bible has already gotten more attention to Joe's gaffe yesterday. That's what I'm talking about. For every Biden gaffe, there's 10 Trump gaffes/blunders/purposefully hateful thing said that people pay more attention to. 

Biden is by far not the perfect candidate. I agree with others that the Biden from ten years ago would've been a lot better but...the one thing he does have going for him is that people do know him and that people generally like him, gaffes and all. 

All of this is part of the reason why he has held such a steady lead for so long, though the numbers are tightening a little. Looking forward to some more good polling leading up to the virtual conventions...

yes, i am from canada, no offence taken. i just think you are overestimating the knowledge of the average american voter. i'm not referring to people like you and everyone else here who are engaged politically. i'm talking about the people who vote but only do so by the "knowledge" they get from attack ads on tv. 

i don't think many average people knew who the fuck most of the senators were prior to the extreme political polarization of the last decade and social media. 

of course, you could be right. maybe he was one of the most recognizable senators. maybe everybody does know him. i just don't think the american electorate is as aware as you think they are. it's not just america. ask any canadian (besides the people who post here) who the premier of any given province they don't live in that isn't named Ford, and you'll get 8/10 wrong answers, guaranteed. 

i know there are more trump gaffes than there are biden ones. that was never my point. my point is just because he outnumbers them, don't believe for one second it still won't have an effect on the election. it will. 

All my friends from Canada think we are crazy for having two right wing parties here....

The party is a reflection of the electorate 

Im not sure if that is a joke but LOL

static111

Biden

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

People overreact to these gaffes. My goodness, folks. Have you not paid attention to Biden for the last 40 years? He makes gaffes regularly. But he's running against a guy who says and utterly crazy shit on an hourly basis. That is why this stuff today, like the "you ain't black" thing from three months ago won't amount to a hill of beans either. 

Jeez. 

i have not paid attention to biden the last 40 years. i didn't know who he was until he was VP. judging by the average american voter, most of them hadn't either. 

it won't amount to a hill of beans to people who are already voting for him. but you can't honestly tell me that fence sitters and trump supporters considering moving left aren't looking at this and going "hmm....maybe he really is losing his mind". 

just because it's not a big deal to you, doesn't mean it won't have an effect on the election. 

No offense but aren't you from Canada? Joe Biden has been one of the most recognizable politicians in this country for decades. This is the third time he's ran for president! People are very familiar with him. And most people have already made up their minds about him and his favorability ratings are significantly higher than HRC's. 

Trump saying Biden hates God and the bible has already gotten more attention to Joe's gaffe yesterday. That's what I'm talking about. For every Biden gaffe, there's 10 Trump gaffes/blunders/purposefully hateful thing said that people pay more attention to. 

Biden is by far not the perfect candidate. I agree with others that the Biden from ten years ago would've been a lot better but...the one thing he does have going for him is that people do know him and that people generally like him, gaffes and all. 

All of this is part of the reason why he has held such a steady lead for so long, though the numbers are tightening a little. Looking forward to some more good polling leading up to the virtual conventions...

yes, i am from canada, no offence taken. i just think you are overestimating the knowledge of the average american voter. i'm not referring to people like you and everyone else here who are engaged politically. i'm talking about the people who vote but only do so by the "knowledge" they get from attack ads on tv. 

i don't think many average people knew who the fuck most of the senators were prior to the extreme political polarization of the last decade and social media. 

of course, you could be right. maybe he was one of the most recognizable senators. maybe everybody does know him. i just don't think the american electorate is as aware as you think they are. it's not just america. ask any canadian (besides the people who post here) who the premier of any given province they don't live in that isn't named Ford, and you'll get 8/10 wrong answers, guaranteed. 

i know there are more trump gaffes than there are biden ones. that was never my point. my point is just because he outnumbers them, don't believe for one second it still won't have an effect on the election. it will. 

I completely agree that the average voter knows little about Biden’s or most senators’ career. Hell, I bet in 2016, the average voter saw Trump as a successful businessman, and Hillary simply as Bill Clinton’s wife. And you make a good point that social media and political polarization might have given some politicians a higher profile, but even then, how many of the 128 million or so voters are on social media? And of them, how many give a shit about politics? 

I like to think I’m somewhat informed on American politics. But I never heard of Joe Biden (or for that matter, Gore, Cheney, or Pence) until they were vice-president. That’s despite them all having long, successful careers in politics.  

Off the top of my head, here’s what I know about Joe Biden’s career:

-Was a senator for a long time 
-Ran for president in the 1988 primary
-Dropped out after getting caught plagiarizing a British politician’s speech
-Authored a significant mid-90’s crime bill (I think)
-Ran for president in the 2008 primary
-Was Obama’s VP
-Had a hand in the economic recovery in 2009 

That’s not a lot, but that’s probably more than most people know about him, especially voters younger than me (I’m 36). I guess people can look back and research his career if they want. But they probably won’t. Instead they’ll stumble upon clips of him sounding incoherent, memes of him sniffing the necks of teenage girls, and compilations of his racially insensitive “gaffes” that go back decades. 

Don’t forget being a big supporter of the credit card lobby and making it harder for average individuals to declare bankruptcy.

The Juggler

Biden

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

People overreact to these gaffes. My goodness, folks. Have you not paid attention to Biden for the last 40 years? He makes gaffes regularly. But he's running against a guy who says and utterly crazy shit on an hourly basis. That is why this stuff today, like the "you ain't black" thing from three months ago won't amount to a hill of beans either. 

Jeez. 

i have not paid attention to biden the last 40 years. i didn't know who he was until he was VP. judging by the average american voter, most of them hadn't either. 

it won't amount to a hill of beans to people who are already voting for him. but you can't honestly tell me that fence sitters and trump supporters considering moving left aren't looking at this and going "hmm....maybe he really is losing his mind". 

just because it's not a big deal to you, doesn't mean it won't have an effect on the election. 

No offense but aren't you from Canada? Joe Biden has been one of the most recognizable politicians in this country for decades. This is the third time he's ran for president! People are very familiar with him. And most people have already made up their minds about him and his favorability ratings are significantly higher than HRC's. 

Trump saying Biden hates God and the bible has already gotten more attention to Joe's gaffe yesterday. That's what I'm talking about. For every Biden gaffe, there's 10 Trump gaffes/blunders/purposefully hateful thing said that people pay more attention to. 

Biden is by far not the perfect candidate. I agree with others that the Biden from ten years ago would've been a lot better but...the one thing he does have going for him is that people do know him and that people generally like him, gaffes and all. 

All of this is part of the reason why he has held such a steady lead for so long, though the numbers are tightening a little. Looking forward to some more good polling leading up to the virtual conventions...

yes, i am from canada, no offence taken. i just think you are overestimating the knowledge of the average american voter. i'm not referring to people like you and everyone else here who are engaged politically. i'm talking about the people who vote but only do so by the "knowledge" they get from attack ads on tv. 

i don't think many average people knew who the fuck most of the senators were prior to the extreme political polarization of the last decade and social media. 

of course, you could be right. maybe he was one of the most recognizable senators. maybe everybody does know him. i just don't think the american electorate is as aware as you think they are. it's not just america. ask any canadian (besides the people who post here) who the premier of any given province they don't live in that isn't named Ford, and you'll get 8/10 wrong answers, guaranteed. 

i know there are more trump gaffes than there are biden ones. that was never my point. my point is just because he outnumbers them, don't believe for one second it still won't have an effect on the election. it will. 

This is an opinion piece but it sort of illustrates my point. I'm talking about people in general. If you're talking about people who vote only based on what they see by attack ads on tv, you're talking about morons. lol. Either way, Trump has been hammering him for months, and his lead has remained steady. That's because people generally know him already, thus are not buying the attack ads:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/07/15/why-trump-cant-convince-america-hate-joe-biden/

President Trump counts on getting voters to nurture and express their ugliest feelings. Yet so far, in one of the most important but underappreciated developments of the 2020 presidential campaign, he seems to have completely failed at persuading Republican voters to truly despise Joe Biden.

They certainly don’t like Biden. But they don’t detest him with the kind of burning fire that Hillary Clinton inspired in them four years ago. And that’s a serious problem for a president who depends on anger and hatred to motivate his supporters.

When Trump held a news conference Tuesday and blathered on for nearly an hour, mentioning Biden no fewer than 31 times (among other things, he claimed Biden would “abolish the suburbs”), it may have been because aides have urged him to talk more about the presumptive Democratic nominee. Their theory, no doubt accurate, is that if the election is just about the president, he’ll lose.

But so far, nothing the Trump campaign has tried has turned voters against Biden. Trump supporters have argued that Biden is corrupt, that he’s too old, that he has a bad record as a senator, and that everything that Trump has failed to do is actually the fault of Biden and Barack Obama. It hasn’t made a difference; Biden still has a wide lead in just about every poll.

They’ve given up on trying to claim that Biden is some kind of left-wing extremist; now they argue that he’ll merely be a puppet of the “radical left.” For instance, this Trump ad portrays a hellscape of chaos and violence brought by “the radical left-wing mob’s agenda ... and Joe Biden stands with them.” The campaign has already spent millions airing the ad, to no evident effect.

So what’s the problem? You can explain it in any number of ways. Biden is familiar from his many years as a senator and vice president, which makes it harder to change how people think of him. Uncle Joe may be a little overbearing at times and say things he shouldn’t, but everyone knows he means well. You may find him occasionally exasperating, but you don’t hate him.

And unlike Clinton, he isn’t a woman, so he doesn’t bring out the same kind of venomous misogyny she did. Nor has he been the target of decades of attacks from the right, the way she was.

It’s almost impossible to overstate just how much Republicans hated Clinton — and how important that was in 2016.

Let’s take just one measure. For decades, the highly respected American National Election Studies has been asking voters to rate candidates on a “feeling thermometer." In 2000, Republicans gave Al Gore an average thermometer rating of 41 out of 100. In 2008, they gave Obama an average rating of 37. Their average rating for Clinton in 2016 was 17.

That’s partly a result of polarization and negative partisanship (ratings for the other party’s candidate have been steadily declining for the past two decades), but it has a lot to do with Clinton herself. Trump’s victory in 2016 — losing by 3 million votes but squeaking out a win in the electoral college — was only possible because so many Republicans hated Clinton so much that they were able to put aside their reservations about Trump.

mrussel1

Biden

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

People overreact to these gaffes. My goodness, folks. Have you not paid attention to Biden for the last 40 years? He makes gaffes regularly. But he's running against a guy who says and utterly crazy shit on an hourly basis. That is why this stuff today, like the "you ain't black" thing from three months ago won't amount to a hill of beans either. 

Jeez. 

i have not paid attention to biden the last 40 years. i didn't know who he was until he was VP. judging by the average american voter, most of them hadn't either. 

it won't amount to a hill of beans to people who are already voting for him. but you can't honestly tell me that fence sitters and trump supporters considering moving left aren't looking at this and going "hmm....maybe he really is losing his mind". 

just because it's not a big deal to you, doesn't mean it won't have an effect on the election. 

No offense but aren't you from Canada? Joe Biden has been one of the most recognizable politicians in this country for decades. This is the third time he's ran for president! People are very familiar with him. And most people have already made up their minds about him and his favorability ratings are significantly higher than HRC's. 

Trump saying Biden hates God and the bible has already gotten more attention to Joe's gaffe yesterday. That's what I'm talking about. For every Biden gaffe, there's 10 Trump gaffes/blunders/purposefully hateful thing said that people pay more attention to. 

Biden is by far not the perfect candidate. I agree with others that the Biden from ten years ago would've been a lot better but...the one thing he does have going for him is that people do know him and that people generally like him, gaffes and all. 

All of this is part of the reason why he has held such a steady lead for so long, though the numbers are tightening a little. Looking forward to some more good polling leading up to the virtual conventions...

yes, i am from canada, no offence taken. i just think you are overestimating the knowledge of the average american voter. i'm not referring to people like you and everyone else here who are engaged politically. i'm talking about the people who vote but only do so by the "knowledge" they get from attack ads on tv. 

i don't think many average people knew who the fuck most of the senators were prior to the extreme political polarization of the last decade and social media. 

of course, you could be right. maybe he was one of the most recognizable senators. maybe everybody does know him. i just don't think the american electorate is as aware as you think they are. it's not just america. ask any canadian (besides the people who post here) who the premier of any given province they don't live in that isn't named Ford, and you'll get 8/10 wrong answers, guaranteed. 

i know there are more trump gaffes than there are biden ones. that was never my point. my point is just because he outnumbers them, don't believe for one second it still won't have an effect on the election. it will. 

All my friends from Canada think we are crazy for having two right wing parties here....

The party is a reflection of the electorate 

Im not sure if that is a joke but LOL

It’s not a joke.  Democrats voted for their candidate of their choosing.  Electorate are the people who vote. You can LOL all you want.  You can LMAO or even ROFL or any other teenage acronym, but the progressives could not get past the 30’s in their own party.  

static111

Biden

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

People overreact to these gaffes. My goodness, folks. Have you not paid attention to Biden for the last 40 years? He makes gaffes regularly. But he's running against a guy who says and utterly crazy shit on an hourly basis. That is why this stuff today, like the "you ain't black" thing from three months ago won't amount to a hill of beans either. 

Jeez. 

i have not paid attention to biden the last 40 years. i didn't know who he was until he was VP. judging by the average american voter, most of them hadn't either. 

it won't amount to a hill of beans to people who are already voting for him. but you can't honestly tell me that fence sitters and trump supporters considering moving left aren't looking at this and going "hmm....maybe he really is losing his mind". 

just because it's not a big deal to you, doesn't mean it won't have an effect on the election. 

No offense but aren't you from Canada? Joe Biden has been one of the most recognizable politicians in this country for decades. This is the third time he's ran for president! People are very familiar with him. And most people have already made up their minds about him and his favorability ratings are significantly higher than HRC's. 

Trump saying Biden hates God and the bible has already gotten more attention to Joe's gaffe yesterday. That's what I'm talking about. For every Biden gaffe, there's 10 Trump gaffes/blunders/purposefully hateful thing said that people pay more attention to. 

Biden is by far not the perfect candidate. I agree with others that the Biden from ten years ago would've been a lot better but...the one thing he does have going for him is that people do know him and that people generally like him, gaffes and all. 

All of this is part of the reason why he has held such a steady lead for so long, though the numbers are tightening a little. Looking forward to some more good polling leading up to the virtual conventions...

yes, i am from canada, no offence taken. i just think you are overestimating the knowledge of the average american voter. i'm not referring to people like you and everyone else here who are engaged politically. i'm talking about the people who vote but only do so by the "knowledge" they get from attack ads on tv. 

i don't think many average people knew who the fuck most of the senators were prior to the extreme political polarization of the last decade and social media. 

of course, you could be right. maybe he was one of the most recognizable senators. maybe everybody does know him. i just don't think the american electorate is as aware as you think they are. it's not just america. ask any canadian (besides the people who post here) who the premier of any given province they don't live in that isn't named Ford, and you'll get 8/10 wrong answers, guaranteed. 

i know there are more trump gaffes than there are biden ones. that was never my point. my point is just because he outnumbers them, don't believe for one second it still won't have an effect on the election. it will. 

All my friends from Canada think we are crazy for having two right wing parties here....

The party is a reflection of the electorate 

Im not sure if that is a joke but LOL

It’s not a joke.  Democrats voted for their candidate of their choosing.  Electorate are the people who vote. You can LOL all you want.  You can LMAO or even ROFL or any other teenage acronym, but the progressives could not get past the 30’s in their own party.  

You really don’t believe that big money donors, PACs, and corporate interests have More of a hand in the selection Process than the actual electorate? 

mrussel1

Biden

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

People overreact to these gaffes. My goodness, folks. Have you not paid attention to Biden for the last 40 years? He makes gaffes regularly. But he's running against a guy who says and utterly crazy shit on an hourly basis. That is why this stuff today, like the "you ain't black" thing from three months ago won't amount to a hill of beans either. 

Jeez. 

i have not paid attention to biden the last 40 years. i didn't know who he was until he was VP. judging by the average american voter, most of them hadn't either. 

it won't amount to a hill of beans to people who are already voting for him. but you can't honestly tell me that fence sitters and trump supporters considering moving left aren't looking at this and going "hmm....maybe he really is losing his mind". 

just because it's not a big deal to you, doesn't mean it won't have an effect on the election. 

No offense but aren't you from Canada? Joe Biden has been one of the most recognizable politicians in this country for decades. This is the third time he's ran for president! People are very familiar with him. And most people have already made up their minds about him and his favorability ratings are significantly higher than HRC's. 

Trump saying Biden hates God and the bible has already gotten more attention to Joe's gaffe yesterday. That's what I'm talking about. For every Biden gaffe, there's 10 Trump gaffes/blunders/purposefully hateful thing said that people pay more attention to. 

Biden is by far not the perfect candidate. I agree with others that the Biden from ten years ago would've been a lot better but...the one thing he does have going for him is that people do know him and that people generally like him, gaffes and all. 

All of this is part of the reason why he has held such a steady lead for so long, though the numbers are tightening a little. Looking forward to some more good polling leading up to the virtual conventions...

yes, i am from canada, no offence taken. i just think you are overestimating the knowledge of the average american voter. i'm not referring to people like you and everyone else here who are engaged politically. i'm talking about the people who vote but only do so by the "knowledge" they get from attack ads on tv. 

i don't think many average people knew who the fuck most of the senators were prior to the extreme political polarization of the last decade and social media. 

of course, you could be right. maybe he was one of the most recognizable senators. maybe everybody does know him. i just don't think the american electorate is as aware as you think they are. it's not just america. ask any canadian (besides the people who post here) who the premier of any given province they don't live in that isn't named Ford, and you'll get 8/10 wrong answers, guaranteed. 

i know there are more trump gaffes than there are biden ones. that was never my point. my point is just because he outnumbers them, don't believe for one second it still won't have an effect on the election. it will. 

All my friends from Canada think we are crazy for having two right wing parties here....

The party is a reflection of the electorate 

Im not sure if that is a joke but LOL

It’s not a joke.  Democrats voted for their candidate of their choosing.  Electorate are the people who vote. You can LOL all you want.  You can LMAO or even ROFL or any other teenage acronym, but the progressives could not get past the 30’s in their own party.  

You really don’t believe that big money donors, PACs, and corporate interests have More of a hand in the selection Process than the actual electorate? 

I don't know. Maybe we should ask Bernie who raised 46 million in February alone.  Before the race changed after Super Tuesday,  that number was more than Biden raised in all of 2019 and the first two months of 20.  Said another way,  Sanders had a massive cash advantage over everyone but Bloombergs personal money.  But none of that mattered to the voters.  The historic talking points just didn't play out. The electorate had their own opinions. 

static111

Biden

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

People overreact to these gaffes. My goodness, folks. Have you not paid attention to Biden for the last 40 years? He makes gaffes regularly. But he's running against a guy who says and utterly crazy shit on an hourly basis. That is why this stuff today, like the "you ain't black" thing from three months ago won't amount to a hill of beans either. 

Jeez. 

i have not paid attention to biden the last 40 years. i didn't know who he was until he was VP. judging by the average american voter, most of them hadn't either. 

it won't amount to a hill of beans to people who are already voting for him. but you can't honestly tell me that fence sitters and trump supporters considering moving left aren't looking at this and going "hmm....maybe he really is losing his mind". 

just because it's not a big deal to you, doesn't mean it won't have an effect on the election. 

No offense but aren't you from Canada? Joe Biden has been one of the most recognizable politicians in this country for decades. This is the third time he's ran for president! People are very familiar with him. And most people have already made up their minds about him and his favorability ratings are significantly higher than HRC's. 

Trump saying Biden hates God and the bible has already gotten more attention to Joe's gaffe yesterday. That's what I'm talking about. For every Biden gaffe, there's 10 Trump gaffes/blunders/purposefully hateful thing said that people pay more attention to. 

Biden is by far not the perfect candidate. I agree with others that the Biden from ten years ago would've been a lot better but...the one thing he does have going for him is that people do know him and that people generally like him, gaffes and all. 

All of this is part of the reason why he has held such a steady lead for so long, though the numbers are tightening a little. Looking forward to some more good polling leading up to the virtual conventions...

yes, i am from canada, no offence taken. i just think you are overestimating the knowledge of the average american voter. i'm not referring to people like you and everyone else here who are engaged politically. i'm talking about the people who vote but only do so by the "knowledge" they get from attack ads on tv. 

i don't think many average people knew who the fuck most of the senators were prior to the extreme political polarization of the last decade and social media. 

of course, you could be right. maybe he was one of the most recognizable senators. maybe everybody does know him. i just don't think the american electorate is as aware as you think they are. it's not just america. ask any canadian (besides the people who post here) who the premier of any given province they don't live in that isn't named Ford, and you'll get 8/10 wrong answers, guaranteed. 

i know there are more trump gaffes than there are biden ones. that was never my point. my point is just because he outnumbers them, don't believe for one second it still won't have an effect on the election. it will. 

All my friends from Canada think we are crazy for having two right wing parties here....

The party is a reflection of the electorate 

Im not sure if that is a joke but LOL

It’s not a joke.  Democrats voted for their candidate of their choosing.  Electorate are the people who vote. You can LOL all you want.  You can LMAO or even ROFL or any other teenage acronym, but the progressives could not get past the 30’s in their own party.  

You really don’t believe that big money donors, PACs, and corporate interests have More of a hand in the selection Process than the actual electorate? 

I don't know. Maybe we should ask Bernie who raised 46 million in February alone.  Before the race changed after Super Tuesday,  that number was more than Biden raised in all of 2019 and the first two months of 20.  Said another way,  Sanders had a massive cash advantage over everyone but Bloombergs personal money.  But none of that mattered to the voters.  The historic talking points just didn't play out. The electorate had their own opinions. 

Seems like you are deflecting from DNC to Bernie.  I’m saying in general that the big corporate money goes a lot further when it comes to the DNC setting the stage for what candidates make the ballot unless there is someone that can’t be blocked like Obama and recently Cori Bush, the squad etc.  having several people drop out of the race after Biden wins SC definitely reeks of strategic coordination.

static111

Biden

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

People overreact to these gaffes. My goodness, folks. Have you not paid attention to Biden for the last 40 years? He makes gaffes regularly. But he's running against a guy who says and utterly crazy shit on an hourly basis. That is why this stuff today, like the "you ain't black" thing from three months ago won't amount to a hill of beans either. 

Jeez. 

i have not paid attention to biden the last 40 years. i didn't know who he was until he was VP. judging by the average american voter, most of them hadn't either. 

it won't amount to a hill of beans to people who are already voting for him. but you can't honestly tell me that fence sitters and trump supporters considering moving left aren't looking at this and going "hmm....maybe he really is losing his mind". 

just because it's not a big deal to you, doesn't mean it won't have an effect on the election. 

No offense but aren't you from Canada? Joe Biden has been one of the most recognizable politicians in this country for decades. This is the third time he's ran for president! People are very familiar with him. And most people have already made up their minds about him and his favorability ratings are significantly higher than HRC's. 

Trump saying Biden hates God and the bible has already gotten more attention to Joe's gaffe yesterday. That's what I'm talking about. For every Biden gaffe, there's 10 Trump gaffes/blunders/purposefully hateful thing said that people pay more attention to. 

Biden is by far not the perfect candidate. I agree with others that the Biden from ten years ago would've been a lot better but...the one thing he does have going for him is that people do know him and that people generally like him, gaffes and all. 

All of this is part of the reason why he has held such a steady lead for so long, though the numbers are tightening a little. Looking forward to some more good polling leading up to the virtual conventions...

yes, i am from canada, no offence taken. i just think you are overestimating the knowledge of the average american voter. i'm not referring to people like you and everyone else here who are engaged politically. i'm talking about the people who vote but only do so by the "knowledge" they get from attack ads on tv. 

i don't think many average people knew who the fuck most of the senators were prior to the extreme political polarization of the last decade and social media. 

of course, you could be right. maybe he was one of the most recognizable senators. maybe everybody does know him. i just don't think the american electorate is as aware as you think they are. it's not just america. ask any canadian (besides the people who post here) who the premier of any given province they don't live in that isn't named Ford, and you'll get 8/10 wrong answers, guaranteed. 

i know there are more trump gaffes than there are biden ones. that was never my point. my point is just because he outnumbers them, don't believe for one second it still won't have an effect on the election. it will. 

All my friends from Canada think we are crazy for having two right wing parties here....

The party is a reflection of the electorate 

Im not sure if that is a joke but LOL

It’s not a joke.  Democrats voted for their candidate of their choosing.  Electorate are the people who vote. You can LOL all you want.  You can LMAO or even ROFL or any other teenage acronym, but the progressives could not get past the 30’s in their own party.  

You really don’t believe that big money donors, PACs, and corporate interests have More of a hand in the selection Process than the actual electorate? 

I don't know. Maybe we should ask Bernie who raised 46 million in February alone.  Before the race changed after Super Tuesday,  that number was more than Biden raised in all of 2019 and the first two months of 20.  Said another way,  Sanders had a massive cash advantage over everyone but Bloombergs personal money.  But none of that mattered to the voters.  The historic talking points just didn't play out. The electorate had their own opinions. 

And to further clarify I am talking about the national stage not just the 2020 presidential. The average voter does not have the say in influencing the direction of the party as monied interests and lobbying.  It seems like in my short time on the earth involved in electoral politics since 2000 that a massive groundswell has to appear from the public for even minimal change. Otherwise it’s the neo liberal status quo for better or for worse.  It’s why so many people are frustrated with the current direction of the party.  Trump was created by the status quo. Removing trump and reinstating the status quo will likely not be enough to save us long term

static111

Biden

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

People overreact to these gaffes. My goodness, folks. Have you not paid attention to Biden for the last 40 years? He makes gaffes regularly. But he's running against a guy who says and utterly crazy shit on an hourly basis. That is why this stuff today, like the "you ain't black" thing from three months ago won't amount to a hill of beans either. 

Jeez. 

i have not paid attention to biden the last 40 years. i didn't know who he was until he was VP. judging by the average american voter, most of them hadn't either. 

it won't amount to a hill of beans to people who are already voting for him. but you can't honestly tell me that fence sitters and trump supporters considering moving left aren't looking at this and going "hmm....maybe he really is losing his mind". 

just because it's not a big deal to you, doesn't mean it won't have an effect on the election. 

No offense but aren't you from Canada? Joe Biden has been one of the most recognizable politicians in this country for decades. This is the third time he's ran for president! People are very familiar with him. And most people have already made up their minds about him and his favorability ratings are significantly higher than HRC's. 

Trump saying Biden hates God and the bible has already gotten more attention to Joe's gaffe yesterday. That's what I'm talking about. For every Biden gaffe, there's 10 Trump gaffes/blunders/purposefully hateful thing said that people pay more attention to. 

Biden is by far not the perfect candidate. I agree with others that the Biden from ten years ago would've been a lot better but...the one thing he does have going for him is that people do know him and that people generally like him, gaffes and all. 

All of this is part of the reason why he has held such a steady lead for so long, though the numbers are tightening a little. Looking forward to some more good polling leading up to the virtual conventions...

yes, i am from canada, no offence taken. i just think you are overestimating the knowledge of the average american voter. i'm not referring to people like you and everyone else here who are engaged politically. i'm talking about the people who vote but only do so by the "knowledge" they get from attack ads on tv. 

i don't think many average people knew who the fuck most of the senators were prior to the extreme political polarization of the last decade and social media. 

of course, you could be right. maybe he was one of the most recognizable senators. maybe everybody does know him. i just don't think the american electorate is as aware as you think they are. it's not just america. ask any canadian (besides the people who post here) who the premier of any given province they don't live in that isn't named Ford, and you'll get 8/10 wrong answers, guaranteed. 

i know there are more trump gaffes than there are biden ones. that was never my point. my point is just because he outnumbers them, don't believe for one second it still won't have an effect on the election. it will. 

All my friends from Canada think we are crazy for having two right wing parties here....

The party is a reflection of the electorate 

Im not sure if that is a joke but LOL

It’s not a joke.  Democrats voted for their candidate of their choosing.  Electorate are the people who vote. You can LOL all you want.  You can LMAO or even ROFL or any other teenage acronym, but the progressives could not get past the 30’s in their own party.  

You really don’t believe that big money donors, PACs, and corporate interests have More of a hand in the selection Process than the actual electorate? 

I don't know. Maybe we should ask Bernie who raised 46 million in February alone.  Before the race changed after Super Tuesday,  that number was more than Biden raised in all of 2019 and the first two months of 20.  Said another way,  Sanders had a massive cash advantage over everyone but Bloombergs personal money.  But none of that mattered to the voters.  The historic talking points just didn't play out. The electorate had their own opinions. 

Seems like you are deflecting from DNC to Bernie.  I’m saying in general that the big corporate money goes a lot further when it comes to the DNC setting the stage for what candidates make the ballot unless there is someone that can’t be blocked like Obama and recently Cori Bush, the squad etc.  having several people drop out of the race after Biden wins SC definitely reeks of strategic coordination.

And really it’s not exclusive to the DNC it happens more often in the RNC. Much of the discourse in the whole country is shaped by monied interest PR campaigns and propaganda that shape the view of the average American that doesn’t look any deeper than the nightly news or cable networks. Often leading to people voting against their interests and that vote being used to justify the conservative direction of national politics.

mrussel1

Biden

You're changing the argument here.  I'm not talking about "in general" or anything other than the selection of Biden by the voters. He was not the money candidate this year in the least.  It was Sanders and Bloom.  My point was specifically that Biden was clearly representative of the will of the people.  He won handily in states where he never put a dollar of advert into it.  And who cares whether the other centrists colluded with him? If the voters wanted the Sanders platform,  he would have been over 50%To that point,  you LOLed. 

static111

Biden

mrussel1 said:

You're changing the argument here.  I'm not talking about "in general" or anything other than the selection of Biden by the voters. He was not the money candidate this year in the least.  It was Sanders and Bloom.  My point was specifically that Biden was clearly representative of the will of the people.  He won handily in states where he never put a dollar of advert into it.  And who cares whether the other centrists colluded with him? If the voters wanted the Sanders platform,  he would have been over 50%To that point,  you LOLed. 

I’m not changing the argument at all.  All donations are not equal.  46 million in individual donations is a much different thing than 10 million made with far fewer donations. Bernies money largely came from individual people that were specifically contributing to his defined platform
and movement in general. He had more individual donors.  Biden and to a larger extent the DNC take large amounts from relatively fewer donors to further the donors interests. Furthermore it is pretty clear that Bloomberg’s money was used for the specific purpose of putting down Bernie as a threat.  All of Bloomberg’s contributions can be seen as Biden donations or electioneering in favor of the DNC.  

None of this takes away from the fact that Trump is horrible and must be stopped at all costs of course.  But I’m not gonna sit here and act like Biden is the next FDR.

mrussel1

Biden

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

You're changing the argument here.  I'm not talking about "in general" or anything other than the selection of Biden by the voters. He was not the money candidate this year in the least.  It was Sanders and Bloom.  My point was specifically that Biden was clearly representative of the will of the people.  He won handily in states where he never put a dollar of advert into it.  And who cares whether the other centrists colluded with him? If the voters wanted the Sanders platform,  he would have been over 50%To that point,  you LOLed. 

I’m not changing the argument at all.  All donations are not equal.  46 million in individual donations is a much different thing than 10 million made with far fewer donations. Bernies money largely came from individual people that were specifically contributing to his defined platform
and movement in general. He had more individual donors.  Biden and to a larger extent the DNC take large amounts from relatively fewer donors to further the donors interests. Furthermore it is pretty clear that Bloomberg’s money was used for the specific purpose of putting down Bernie as a threat.  All of Bloomberg’s contributions can be seen as Biden donations or electioneering in favor of the DNC.  

None of this takes away from the fact that Trump is horrible and must be stopped at all costs of course.  But I’m not gonna sit here and act like Biden is the next FDR.

So you're saying Bernie's money spends differently? Is it less influential to voters than super PAC money? Your arguments are full of holes regarding 2020.  Bernie has more money than anyone and won fewer voters and delegates than in 16. He has all of these alleged grass roots energy but staying in the 30s. And the conclusion you draw from that is that Biden's views aren't representative of where the party's voters are in 2020?  

Biden didn't have the money, the organization,  the media or the ground game.  Yet he smoked the field.  These are facts.  

static111

Biden

mrussel1 said:

static111 said:

mrussel1 said:

You're changing the argument here.  I'm not talking about "in general" or anything other than the selection of Biden by the voters. He was not the money candidate this year in the least.  It was Sanders and Bloom.  My point was specifically that Biden was clearly representative of the will of the people.  He won handily in states where he never put a dollar of advert into it.  And who cares whether the other centrists colluded with him? If the voters wanted the Sanders platform,  he would have been over 50%To that point,  you LOLed. 

I’m not changing the argument at all.  All donations are not equal.  46 million in individual donations is a much different thing than 10 million made with far fewer donations. Bernies money largely came from individual people that were specifically contributing to his defined platform
and movement in general. He had more individual donors.  Biden and to a larger extent the DNC take large amounts from relatively fewer donors to further the donors interests. Furthermore it is pretty clear that Bloomberg’s money was used for the specific purpose of putting down Bernie as a threat.  All of Bloomberg’s contributions can be seen as Biden donations or electioneering in favor of the DNC.  

None of this takes away from the fact that Trump is horrible and must be stopped at all costs of course.  But I’m not gonna sit here and act like Biden is the next FDR.

So you're saying Bernie's money spends differently? Is it less influential to voters than super PAC money? Your arguments are full of holes regarding 2020.  Bernie has more money than anyone and won fewer voters and delegates than in 16. He has all of these alleged grass roots energy but staying in the 30s. And the conclusion you draw from that is that Biden's views aren't representative of where the party's voters are in 2020?  

Biden didn't have the money, the organization,  the media or the ground game.  Yet he smoked the field.  These are facts.  

The original premise was never who had more money and how it spends the original premise is that where the money comes from absolutely influences the candidate.  If that was not the case we wouldn’t have had McCain/Feingold or people trying tooverturn citizens united and remove Dark Money from campaigning.  The premise is this.  A candidate will bend to the will of his or her donor class.  If they are largely funded by small individual contributions they are likely to at least pay lip service to the people that donated to them.  If a politician or political party receives a majority of their money from wealthy interests and corporate donations and accepts the help of outside Super Pacs they are absolutely going to bend more in that direction.  That’s my point I didn’t bring up Bernie you did.  I’m wondering just how much further right this whole election pulls the Democrat party.  You can be sure that if the Lincoln Project and their ilk are going to ask to have their favors returned.  It’s my individual belief that if we just move the major left party further right that the next Trump isn’t going to be a buffoon, but a skilled and smart politician that is capable of much worse.  

static111

Biden

The whole premise was that the parties are a reflection of the electorate.  My counter is that the parties are a reflection of the highest figure donors.

mrussel1

Biden

static111 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

The Juggler said:

People overreact to these gaffes. My goodness, folks. Have you not paid attention to Biden for the last 40 years? He makes gaffes regularly. But he's running against a guy who says and utterly crazy shit on an hourly basis. That is why this stuff today, like the "you ain't black" thing from three months ago won't amount to a hill of beans either. 

Jeez. 

i have not paid attention to biden the last 40 years. i didn't know who he was until he was VP. judging by the average american voter, most of them hadn't either. 

it won't amount to a hill of beans to people who are already voting for him. but you can't honestly tell me that fence sitters and trump supporters considering moving left aren't looking at this and going "hmm....maybe he really is losing his mind". 

just because it's not a big deal to you, doesn't mean it won't have an effect on the election. 

No offense but aren't you from Canada? Joe Biden has been one of the most recognizable politicians in this country for decades. This is the third time he's ran for president! People are very familiar with him. And most people have already made up their minds about him and his favorability ratings are significantly higher than HRC's. 

Trump saying Biden hates God and the bible has already gotten more attention to Joe's gaffe yesterday. That's what I'm talking about. For every Biden gaffe, there's 10 Trump gaffes/blunders/purposefully hateful thing said that people pay more attention to. 

Biden is by far not the perfect candidate. I agree with others that the Biden from ten years ago would've been a lot better but...the one thing he does have going for him is that people do know him and that people generally like him, gaffes and all. 

All of this is part of the reason why he has held such a steady lead for so long, though the numbers are tightening a little. Looking forward to some more good polling leading up to the virtual conventions...

yes, i am from canada, no offence taken. i just think you are overestimating the knowledge of the average american voter. i'm not referring to people like you and everyone else here who are engaged politically. i'm talking about the people who vote but only do so by the "knowledge" they get from attack ads on tv. 

i don't think many average people knew who the fuck most of the senators were prior to the extreme political polarization of the last decade and social media. 

of course, you could be right. maybe he was one of the most recognizable senators. maybe everybody does know him. i just don't think the american electorate is as aware as you think they are. it's not just america. ask any canadian (besides the people who post here) who the premier of any given province they don't live in that isn't named Ford, and you'll get 8/10 wrong answers, guaranteed. 

i know there are more trump gaffes than there are biden ones. that was never my point. my point is just because he outnumbers them, don't believe for one second it still won't have an effect on the election. it will. 

I completely agree that the average voter knows little about Biden’s or most senators’ career. Hell, I bet in 2016, the average voter saw Trump as a successful businessman, and Hillary simply as Bill Clinton’s wife. And you make a good point that social media and political polarization might have given some politicians a higher profile, but even then, how many of the 128 million or so voters are on social media? And of them, how many give a shit about politics? 

I like to think I’m somewhat informed on American politics. But I never heard of Joe Biden (or for that matter, Gore, Cheney, or Pence) until they were vice-president. That’s despite them all having long, successful careers in politics.  

Off the top of my head, here’s what I know about Joe Biden’s career:

-Was a senator for a long time 
-Ran for president in the 1988 primary
-Dropped out after getting caught plagiarizing a British politician’s speech
-Authored a significant mid-90’s crime bill (I think)
-Ran for president in the 2008 primary
-Was Obama’s VP
-Had a hand in the economic recovery in 2009 

That’s not a lot, but that’s probably more than most people know about him, especially voters younger than me (I’m 36). I guess people can look back and research his career if they want. But they probably won’t. Instead they’ll stumble upon clips of him sounding incoherent, memes of him sniffing the necks of teenage girls, and compilations of his racially insensitive “gaffes” that go back decades. 

Don’t forget being a big supporter of the credit card lobby and making it harder for average individuals to declare bankruptcy.

It was way too easy to wipe your debt.  People with assets could get their debts completely discharged.  Those of us who pay our bills get saddled with higher interest rates when discharge is easy. 

mrussel1

Biden

static111 said:

The whole premise was that the parties are a reflection of the electorate.  My counter is that the parties are a reflection of the highest figure donors.

Again,  the electorate had the chance to go a different direction and fewer people wanted it in 16 than 20. At some level,  Democrats are comfortable with the democratic platform,  regardless of how it got there.