Fan-to-Fan Ticket Exchange for Dummies

TW150753

Any recommended bootlegs from 2018 North America or Europe that I should download?

SVRDhand13

TW150753 said:

Any recommended bootlegs from 2018 North America or Europe that I should download?

Easily Seattle 2 

PJNB

TW150753 said:

Any recommended bootlegs from 2018 North America or Europe that I should download?

Seattle 2
Krakow
Rome

JB274988

Ok, I have too much time on my hands - who wants one (sorry for the size)???

Saltzy23

TW150753 said:

Saltzy23 said:

Just to confirm, no one has seen a single Baltimore ticket posted since midnight last night, correct?

Correct, we even had someone on the night shift say they saw nothing this morning.

Well, there are only 443 tickets currently for sale on StubHub for the MSG show, and that is where non-10C members could sell what they were able to buy on the TM sales for 7X-10X what they paid for it, so this is probably the reality now that the 1st 'wave' (if that's what you can even call what this was) is over.

I have feeling we are all gonna be fighting for scraps until the week of the show when people out there that have no interest in selling now have something that comes up that forces them to.

I'm still on high alert, but at this point we can all probably lower our readiness to Defcon 2.

TW150753

JB274988 said:

Ok, I have too much time on my hands - who wants one (sorry for the size)???

Awesome!

Saltzy23

JB274988 said:

Ok, I have too much time on my hands - who wants one (sorry for the size)???

That's fantastic.

You would clean up if you made like 250 of those and sold them outside of the arena on the day of the show.

tdawe

Saltzy23 said:

JB274988 said:

Ok, I have too much time on my hands - who wants one (sorry for the size)???

That's fantastic.

You would clean up if you made like 250 of those and sold them outside of the arena on the day of the show.

Come on, you know it's only right that they be sold one or two at a time, dropped at random times and given to the first person to provide their credit card info.

mpedone

tdawe said:

Saltzy23 said:

JB274988 said:

Ok, I have too much time on my hands - who wants one (sorry for the size)???

That's fantastic.

You would clean up if you made like 250 of those and sold them outside of the arena on the day of the show.

Come on, you know it's only right that they be sold one or two at a time, dropped at random times and given to the first person to provide their credit card info.

Far better if he sells all of them someone online who then sells them the day of the show at 3-4x the original price.

SHZA

tdawe said:

SHZA said:

tdawe said:

SHZA said:

tdawe said:

SHZA said:

JimmyV said:

cardoso said:

Where is the Denver tickets??

StubHub. Colorado insists on protecting the scalper market. 

Or consumers' right to dispose of their property as they wish.

I think you have this backwards. NY and CO are the states that impose marketplace restrictions (by making it illegal to sell non-transferable tickets). The other states allow actors in the marketplace (in this case, concert venues, promoters & artists) to dispose of their property (in the form of limited licenses comprising a clearly defined package of rights) as they wish.

So how is it backwards? NY and CO protect consumers. Other states allow corporate behemoths to screw the little guy. 

There are thousands of fans in the other states who have tickets to these shows because the scalpers were kept out. Those tickets were advertised as being non-transferable, several times in very clear ways, before the sales occurred. Those fans got exactly what they bargained for, and if this thread is any indication not many of them are interested in getting any refunds. Explain to me how they have been screwed by any corporate behemoths.

You didn't answer my question. No one disputes that prohibiting transfers helped the pearl jam fans who actually got tickets to these shows. But that doesn't explain how my statement that NY and CO law protects consumers' rights to dispose of their property is backwards. 

OK. Here is the answer to your question: you said (if I'm reading your initial post correctly) that Colorado insists on protecting consumers' right to dipose of their property as they wish. This is backwards because Colorado and New York are the states that affirmatively limit the ability of people to dispose of their property as they wish. As several others have pointed out, tickets are not property in a legal sense; they are licenses that a property owner can sell to others to use the property for limited purposes (you seem to disagree with this, but you are wrong). In 48 states, the property owners are free to sell either fully transferable or non-transferable tickets, and consumers are able to buy or not buy those tickets at their discretion. In NY and CO, the state intervenes to prohibit property owners from offering a certain type of license, and therefore prevent consumers from buying it if they wish.

Also, the notion that the state laws in NY and CO were enacted for the purpose of protecting "consumers" is a bullshit PR talking point. They were enacted to protect the business of ticket resellers.

Now answer my question: how have the fans in the other states been screwed?

I'd submit that once the artist sells the ticket, it's no longer the artist's property. NY and CO prohibit restrictions on the actual property owner disposing of it as they wish, by barring the previous owner from implementing prospective restrictions on alienation. Why the law was put in place is beside the point. Of course the stubhub lobby was behind it, but that doesn't mean that it's not also beneficial to consumers. 

How were fans in other states screwed? Again, I'm not saying the fans who actually bought tickets have been screwed in this particular situation, because the band had the fans' interests in mind when they set up this system. But this set of 8 Pearl Jam shows is a minuscule fraction of the thousands of ticketed events that occur nationwide every week. Many transfer restrictions are very bad for the consumer. Say Ticketmaster decides to prohibit all transfers in the other 48 states, except for resale on the Ticketmaster platform. Instead of a Face Value exchange as Pearl Jam insisted on, there are additional resale fees for both the buyer and seller, as well as a price floor so that the fan who can't use the tickets can't undercut the remaining inventory, which is never going to sell because the crazy PJ-type demand isn't there. Because all sales are final, the consumer has to eat the price of the ticket because the state allowed the corporate behemoth to impose an unjustified transfer restriction to boost its resale profits. In NY and CO, that fan can get at least some of their money back due to free transferability.

tdawe

SHZA said:

tdawe said:

SHZA said:

tdawe said:

SHZA said:

tdawe said:

SHZA said:

JimmyV said:

cardoso said:

Where is the Denver tickets??

StubHub. Colorado insists on protecting the scalper market. 

Or consumers' right to dispose of their property as they wish.

I think you have this backwards. NY and CO are the states that impose marketplace restrictions (by making it illegal to sell non-transferable tickets). The other states allow actors in the marketplace (in this case, concert venues, promoters & artists) to dispose of their property (in the form of limited licenses comprising a clearly defined package of rights) as they wish.

So how is it backwards? NY and CO protect consumers. Other states allow corporate behemoths to screw the little guy. 

There are thousands of fans in the other states who have tickets to these shows because the scalpers were kept out. Those tickets were advertised as being non-transferable, several times in very clear ways, before the sales occurred. Those fans got exactly what they bargained for, and if this thread is any indication not many of them are interested in getting any refunds. Explain to me how they have been screwed by any corporate behemoths.

You didn't answer my question. No one disputes that prohibiting transfers helped the pearl jam fans who actually got tickets to these shows. But that doesn't explain how my statement that NY and CO law protects consumers' rights to dispose of their property is backwards. 

OK. Here is the answer to your question: you said (if I'm reading your initial post correctly) that Colorado insists on protecting consumers' right to dipose of their property as they wish. This is backwards because Colorado and New York are the states that affirmatively limit the ability of people to dispose of their property as they wish. As several others have pointed out, tickets are not property in a legal sense; they are licenses that a property owner can sell to others to use the property for limited purposes (you seem to disagree with this, but you are wrong). In 48 states, the property owners are free to sell either fully transferable or non-transferable tickets, and consumers are able to buy or not buy those tickets at their discretion. In NY and CO, the state intervenes to prohibit property owners from offering a certain type of license, and therefore prevent consumers from buying it if they wish.

Also, the notion that the state laws in NY and CO were enacted for the purpose of protecting "consumers" is a bullshit PR talking point. They were enacted to protect the business of ticket resellers.

Now answer my question: how have the fans in the other states been screwed?

I'd submit that once the artist sells the ticket, it's no longer the artist's property. 

You are free to submit that I guess, but it flies in the face of decades, if not centuries, of property law principles.

UseUrIllusions

jamesbrown1832 said:

ARRRRGGGGGHHHH GA for TO,  dammit. 

When???

Saltzy23

tdawe said:

Saltzy23 said:

JB274988 said:

Ok, I have too much time on my hands - who wants one (sorry for the size)???

That's fantastic.

You would clean up if you made like 250 of those and sold them outside of the arena on the day of the show.

Come on, you know it's only right that they be sold one or two at a time, dropped at random times and given to the first person to provide their credit card info.

True.

He should charge like .25 cents over the cost of the shirts, find out how many people are interested in them and make like 50% less than that amount distributing them amongst that group based on a random lotto, and then tell anyone that got one they are not permitted to sell it to anyone for 1 cent more than they paid or never buy another shirt from him ever again.

The snark meter in this thread has really been cranked to 11 the last 48 hours.  I love it.

LaFleur

UseUrIllusions said:

jamesbrown1832 said:

ARRRRGGGGGHHHH GA for TO,  dammit. 

When???

15:06:28 21/02/20

SHZA

tdawe said:

SHZA said:

tdawe said:

SHZA said:

tdawe said:

SHZA said:

tdawe said:

SHZA said:

JimmyV said:

cardoso said:

Where is the Denver tickets??

StubHub. Colorado insists on protecting the scalper market. 

Or consumers' right to dispose of their property as they wish.

I think you have this backwards. NY and CO are the states that impose marketplace restrictions (by making it illegal to sell non-transferable tickets). The other states allow actors in the marketplace (in this case, concert venues, promoters & artists) to dispose of their property (in the form of limited licenses comprising a clearly defined package of rights) as they wish.

So how is it backwards? NY and CO protect consumers. Other states allow corporate behemoths to screw the little guy. 

There are thousands of fans in the other states who have tickets to these shows because the scalpers were kept out. Those tickets were advertised as being non-transferable, several times in very clear ways, before the sales occurred. Those fans got exactly what they bargained for, and if this thread is any indication not many of them are interested in getting any refunds. Explain to me how they have been screwed by any corporate behemoths.

You didn't answer my question. No one disputes that prohibiting transfers helped the pearl jam fans who actually got tickets to these shows. But that doesn't explain how my statement that NY and CO law protects consumers' rights to dispose of their property is backwards. 

OK. Here is the answer to your question: you said (if I'm reading your initial post correctly) that Colorado insists on protecting consumers' right to dipose of their property as they wish. This is backwards because Colorado and New York are the states that affirmatively limit the ability of people to dispose of their property as they wish. As several others have pointed out, tickets are not property in a legal sense; they are licenses that a property owner can sell to others to use the property for limited purposes (you seem to disagree with this, but you are wrong). In 48 states, the property owners are free to sell either fully transferable or non-transferable tickets, and consumers are able to buy or not buy those tickets at their discretion. In NY and CO, the state intervenes to prohibit property owners from offering a certain type of license, and therefore prevent consumers from buying it if they wish.

Also, the notion that the state laws in NY and CO were enacted for the purpose of protecting "consumers" is a bullshit PR talking point. They were enacted to protect the business of ticket resellers.

Now answer my question: how have the fans in the other states been screwed?

I'd submit that once the artist sells the ticket, it's no longer the artist's property. 

You are free to submit that I guess, but it flies in the face of decades, if not centuries, of property law principles.

Again, NY and CO disagree.

Saltzy23

SHZA said:

tdawe said:

SHZA said:

tdawe said:

SHZA said:

tdawe said:

SHZA said:

JimmyV said:

cardoso said:

Where is the Denver tickets??

StubHub. Colorado insists on protecting the scalper market. 

Or consumers' right to dispose of their property as they wish.

I think you have this backwards. NY and CO are the states that impose marketplace restrictions (by making it illegal to sell non-transferable tickets). The other states allow actors in the marketplace (in this case, concert venues, promoters & artists) to dispose of their property (in the form of limited licenses comprising a clearly defined package of rights) as they wish.

So how is it backwards? NY and CO protect consumers. Other states allow corporate behemoths to screw the little guy. 

There are thousands of fans in the other states who have tickets to these shows because the scalpers were kept out. Those tickets were advertised as being non-transferable, several times in very clear ways, before the sales occurred. Those fans got exactly what they bargained for, and if this thread is any indication not many of them are interested in getting any refunds. Explain to me how they have been screwed by any corporate behemoths.

You didn't answer my question. No one disputes that prohibiting transfers helped the pearl jam fans who actually got tickets to these shows. But that doesn't explain how my statement that NY and CO law protects consumers' rights to dispose of their property is backwards. 

OK. Here is the answer to your question: you said (if I'm reading your initial post correctly) that Colorado insists on protecting consumers' right to dipose of their property as they wish. This is backwards because Colorado and New York are the states that affirmatively limit the ability of people to dispose of their property as they wish. As several others have pointed out, tickets are not property in a legal sense; they are licenses that a property owner can sell to others to use the property for limited purposes (you seem to disagree with this, but you are wrong). In 48 states, the property owners are free to sell either fully transferable or non-transferable tickets, and consumers are able to buy or not buy those tickets at their discretion. In NY and CO, the state intervenes to prohibit property owners from offering a certain type of license, and therefore prevent consumers from buying it if they wish.

Also, the notion that the state laws in NY and CO were enacted for the purpose of protecting "consumers" is a bullshit PR talking point. They were enacted to protect the business of ticket resellers.

Now answer my question: how have the fans in the other states been screwed?

I'd submit that once the artist sells the ticket, it's no longer the artist's property. NY and CO prohibit restrictions on the actual property owner disposing of it as they wish, by barring the previous owner from implementing prospective restrictions on alienation. Why the law was put in place is beside the point. Of course the stubhub lobby was behind it, but that doesn't mean that it's not also beneficial to consumers. 

How were fans in other states screwed? Again, I'm not saying the fans who actually bought tickets have been screwed in this particular situation, because the band had the fans' interests in mind when they set up this system. But this set of 8 Pearl Jam shows is a minuscule fraction of the thousands of ticketed events that occur nationwide every week. Many transfer restrictions are very bad for the consumer. Say Ticketmaster decides to prohibit all transfers in the other 48 states, except for resale on the Ticketmaster platform. Instead of a Face Value exchange as Pearl Jam insisted on, there are additional resale fees for both the buyer and seller, as well as a price floor so that the fan who can't use the tickets can't undercut the remaining inventory, which is never going to sell because the crazy PJ-type demand isn't there. Because all sales are final, the consumer has to eat the price of the ticket because the state allowed the corporate behemoth to impose an unjustified transfer restriction to boost its resale profits. In NY and CO, that fan can get at least some of their money back due to free transferability.

Bang.

Imagine buying season tickets to a baseball team where you are buying 81 fucking games in advance at face value, with no ability to sell any of them for 1 penny less than you paid.  You wanna sell your Tuesday night shit game you don't feel like going to and just recoup some of the sunk cost, fuck you, you scalping piece of trash.  

Everyone sees these laws through the prism of PJ tickets when the needle is almost always pinned down on Demand >>> Supply.

What about the other 90% of events that people just wanna sell extra tickets for events that have little or no demand for them?

All those people are just screwed I guess.

chukdotcom

tdawe said:

Saltzy23 said:

JB274988 said:

Ok, I have too much time on my hands - who wants one (sorry for the size)???

That's fantastic.

You would clean up if you made like 250 of those and sold them outside of the arena on the day of the show.

Come on, you know it's only right that they be sold one or two at a time, dropped at random times and given to the first person to provide their credit card info.

We are gonna need to make a shirt for buying the shirt...

JimmyV

Saltzy23 said:

SHZA said:

tdawe said:

SHZA said:

tdawe said:

SHZA said:

tdawe said:

SHZA said:

JimmyV said:

cardoso said:

Where is the Denver tickets??

StubHub. Colorado insists on protecting the scalper market. 

Or consumers' right to dispose of their property as they wish.

I think you have this backwards. NY and CO are the states that impose marketplace restrictions (by making it illegal to sell non-transferable tickets). The other states allow actors in the marketplace (in this case, concert venues, promoters & artists) to dispose of their property (in the form of limited licenses comprising a clearly defined package of rights) as they wish.

So how is it backwards? NY and CO protect consumers. Other states allow corporate behemoths to screw the little guy. 

There are thousands of fans in the other states who have tickets to these shows because the scalpers were kept out. Those tickets were advertised as being non-transferable, several times in very clear ways, before the sales occurred. Those fans got exactly what they bargained for, and if this thread is any indication not many of them are interested in getting any refunds. Explain to me how they have been screwed by any corporate behemoths.

You didn't answer my question. No one disputes that prohibiting transfers helped the pearl jam fans who actually got tickets to these shows. But that doesn't explain how my statement that NY and CO law protects consumers' rights to dispose of their property is backwards. 

OK. Here is the answer to your question: you said (if I'm reading your initial post correctly) that Colorado insists on protecting consumers' right to dipose of their property as they wish. This is backwards because Colorado and New York are the states that affirmatively limit the ability of people to dispose of their property as they wish. As several others have pointed out, tickets are not property in a legal sense; they are licenses that a property owner can sell to others to use the property for limited purposes (you seem to disagree with this, but you are wrong). In 48 states, the property owners are free to sell either fully transferable or non-transferable tickets, and consumers are able to buy or not buy those tickets at their discretion. In NY and CO, the state intervenes to prohibit property owners from offering a certain type of license, and therefore prevent consumers from buying it if they wish.

Also, the notion that the state laws in NY and CO were enacted for the purpose of protecting "consumers" is a bullshit PR talking point. They were enacted to protect the business of ticket resellers.

Now answer my question: how have the fans in the other states been screwed?

I'd submit that once the artist sells the ticket, it's no longer the artist's property. NY and CO prohibit restrictions on the actual property owner disposing of it as they wish, by barring the previous owner from implementing prospective restrictions on alienation. Why the law was put in place is beside the point. Of course the stubhub lobby was behind it, but that doesn't mean that it's not also beneficial to consumers. 

How were fans in other states screwed? Again, I'm not saying the fans who actually bought tickets have been screwed in this particular situation, because the band had the fans' interests in mind when they set up this system. But this set of 8 Pearl Jam shows is a minuscule fraction of the thousands of ticketed events that occur nationwide every week. Many transfer restrictions are very bad for the consumer. Say Ticketmaster decides to prohibit all transfers in the other 48 states, except for resale on the Ticketmaster platform. Instead of a Face Value exchange as Pearl Jam insisted on, there are additional resale fees for both the buyer and seller, as well as a price floor so that the fan who can't use the tickets can't undercut the remaining inventory, which is never going to sell because the crazy PJ-type demand isn't there. Because all sales are final, the consumer has to eat the price of the ticket because the state allowed the corporate behemoth to impose an unjustified transfer restriction to boost its resale profits. In NY and CO, that fan can get at least some of their money back due to free transferability.

Bang.

Imagine buying season tickets to a baseball team where you are buying 81 fucking games in advance at face value, with no ability to sell any of them for 1 penny less than you paid.  You wanna sell your Tuesday night shit game you don't feel like going to and just recoup some of the sunk cost, fuck you, you scalping piece of trash.  

Everyone sees these laws through the prism of PJ tickets when the needle is almost always pinned down on Demand >>> Supply.

What about the other 90% of events that people just wanna sell extra tickets for events that have little or no demand for them?

All those people are just screwed I guess.

Two Baltimore GA's dropped while you typed this.  

tdawe

Saltzy23 said:

SHZA said:

tdawe said:

SHZA said:

tdawe said:

SHZA said:

tdawe said:

SHZA said:

JimmyV said:

cardoso said:

Where is the Denver tickets??

StubHub. Colorado insists on protecting the scalper market. 

Or consumers' right to dispose of their property as they wish.

I think you have this backwards. NY and CO are the states that impose marketplace restrictions (by making it illegal to sell non-transferable tickets). The other states allow actors in the marketplace (in this case, concert venues, promoters & artists) to dispose of their property (in the form of limited licenses comprising a clearly defined package of rights) as they wish.

So how is it backwards? NY and CO protect consumers. Other states allow corporate behemoths to screw the little guy. 

There are thousands of fans in the other states who have tickets to these shows because the scalpers were kept out. Those tickets were advertised as being non-transferable, several times in very clear ways, before the sales occurred. Those fans got exactly what they bargained for, and if this thread is any indication not many of them are interested in getting any refunds. Explain to me how they have been screwed by any corporate behemoths.

You didn't answer my question. No one disputes that prohibiting transfers helped the pearl jam fans who actually got tickets to these shows. But that doesn't explain how my statement that NY and CO law protects consumers' rights to dispose of their property is backwards. 

OK. Here is the answer to your question: you said (if I'm reading your initial post correctly) that Colorado insists on protecting consumers' right to dipose of their property as they wish. This is backwards because Colorado and New York are the states that affirmatively limit the ability of people to dispose of their property as they wish. As several others have pointed out, tickets are not property in a legal sense; they are licenses that a property owner can sell to others to use the property for limited purposes (you seem to disagree with this, but you are wrong). In 48 states, the property owners are free to sell either fully transferable or non-transferable tickets, and consumers are able to buy or not buy those tickets at their discretion. In NY and CO, the state intervenes to prohibit property owners from offering a certain type of license, and therefore prevent consumers from buying it if they wish.

Also, the notion that the state laws in NY and CO were enacted for the purpose of protecting "consumers" is a bullshit PR talking point. They were enacted to protect the business of ticket resellers.

Now answer my question: how have the fans in the other states been screwed?

I'd submit that once the artist sells the ticket, it's no longer the artist's property. NY and CO prohibit restrictions on the actual property owner disposing of it as they wish, by barring the previous owner from implementing prospective restrictions on alienation. Why the law was put in place is beside the point. Of course the stubhub lobby was behind it, but that doesn't mean that it's not also beneficial to consumers. 

How were fans in other states screwed? Again, I'm not saying the fans who actually bought tickets have been screwed in this particular situation, because the band had the fans' interests in mind when they set up this system. But this set of 8 Pearl Jam shows is a minuscule fraction of the thousands of ticketed events that occur nationwide every week. Many transfer restrictions are very bad for the consumer. Say Ticketmaster decides to prohibit all transfers in the other 48 states, except for resale on the Ticketmaster platform. Instead of a Face Value exchange as Pearl Jam insisted on, there are additional resale fees for both the buyer and seller, as well as a price floor so that the fan who can't use the tickets can't undercut the remaining inventory, which is never going to sell because the crazy PJ-type demand isn't there. Because all sales are final, the consumer has to eat the price of the ticket because the state allowed the corporate behemoth to impose an unjustified transfer restriction to boost its resale profits. In NY and CO, that fan can get at least some of their money back due to free transferability.

Bang.

Imagine buying season tickets to a baseball team where you are buying 81 fucking games in advance at face value, with no ability to sell any of them for 1 penny less than you paid.  You wanna sell your Tuesday night shit game you don't feel like going to and just recoup some of the sunk cost, fuck you, you scalping piece of trash.  

Everyone sees these laws through the prism of PJ tickets when the needle is almost always pinned down on Demand >>> Supply.

What about the other 90% of events that people just wanna sell extra tickets for that have little to no demand for them?

All those people are just screwed I guess.

I'm too busy to keep at this right now, but I just wanted to note in case you're interested that NY recently carved a loophole in its "no non-transferable tickets" law to exclude the exact situation you describe here - they now allow the Yankees (and other sports teams with venues over 30K in capacity) to make a certain number of season tickets non-transferable if they want. In case there's still any confusion about who these laws are really aimed at protecting.

epbadger

Finally got tickets...But for Primus at the Becon in NYC.  they are playing Rush's Farewell to Kings album in its entirety...back to clicking,  cmon Fucking Baltimore