Unsolicited Opinion from a 27-year member

Lostpawn

So, remembering that “fan” is shorthand for “fanatic”...

A fun thought exercise: who is the bigger “fan”?
Person 1:  Started listening to PJ 19 years ago. Owns most but not all of their albums.  Not much merch to speak of. Joined 10c 13 years ago. Been to 7 concerts. 

Person 2:  Discovered the band when Lightning Bolt came out. Fell in love. Joined 10c on the spot. Bought all of the albums, lots of bootlegs, tons of merch. Been to 20 concerts. 

Thoughts?  What if Person 2 also got a Stickman tattoo on their chest?

Just having fun here. Neither of these describe me. 

Merkin Baller

The band doesn’t prioritize10C seating based on who the biggest fan is. 

They prioritize 10C seating based on how long you’ve been in the fanclub. That is the only thing seniority is good for, which is fine. There’s nothing unfair about this system. 

& personally I would shocked if they did away with seniority based seating as that would remove the incentive for people to renew every year. 

huntersthompson

TN49724 said:

Darth Lizard King said:

Then how would you quantify fandom, if not for the amount of time someone has devoted to band loyalty? Seems like pretty much the longer you have been in the 10 Club, the bigger fan you are.

Official equation for quantifying fandom (not really an equation, but a simple reference):

X>Y

X=Me, always constant
Y=You, varies by person and situation

very simple

Could you graph that for me....?  I need the visual to help alleviate my brain cramp --- 

Eddieredder

As with all media these days. Just remember its a small negative LOUD minority. They don't speak for everyone. Its become very very easy to ignore. 

pearljim

Great post and very nicely articulated!

Nami

great post.  great music coming....cant wait for MArch 27th!

F Me In The Brain

Who is the bigger fan. 



This is where we are at.

I'm betting the biggest fan of anything that has been around this long is a frigging Looney who is sitting outside while a band member eats lunch so that they can run and grab their napkin or some stalker type of bs

NewfieintheUSA

Darth Lizard King said:

Then how would you quantify fandom, if not for the amount of time someone has devoted to band loyalty? Seems like pretty much the longer you have been in the 10 Club, the bigger fan you are.

I completely disagree. Thankfully for you, you didn't have life circumstances get in the way of you being able to stay a member. Others did, it doesn't make them less of a fan. Or if someone didn't catch onto PJ until later (due to age, or anything else). 

Stop trying to use seniority to prove how much better of a fan you are. 

Lostpawn

F Me In The Brain said:

Who is the bigger fan. 



This is where we are at.

I'm betting the biggest fan of anything that has been around this long is a frigging Looney who is sitting outside while a band member eats lunch so that they can run and grab their napkin or some stalker type of bs

The parody is becoming reality. It’s humorous to a point, but eventually it’s just creepy. 

I hope everyone enjoys their shows. If you’re still locked out, keep trying. Where there’s a will, there’s a way. 

Veddernarian

Good post, a lot of good points.  I was a fan since I first really noticed Alive while heading to a Rite Aid in late 1990 to pick up fever medicine for my 11 month old son.  As a young parent and with a demanding job, I couldn't go to concerts.  I bought every CD, was amazed by them, and even drove around listening when they first came out.  PJ was there for me when I divorced, met someone, re-married, had new kids.  Seems like their songs had a relevant message and were the background tracks for my life.  As for the 10C, I really had no idea it existed.  Finally, when the internet took hold, I was in this forum when it used to look like an index.  I stumbled on it looking for stuff on the band.  In 2002, learned of 10C, joined it immediately.  Up until then, I was a huge fan, as much so as a 10C member since day-1.  I just had no idea.  Ok so what.  Before 2003, 10C members picked one show per tour and those seats were 1st few rows.  In 2003 and beyond, it was as many shows as you want.  The seating suffered.  For one show, I was halfway back in a stadium and in another rear floor and couldn't see.  I have maintained 10C membership since 2002 and analog since its inception.  The one thing I wish for personally is to be for once in my life in the 1st few rows.  Just to experience it once.  They don't come to LA often like they do in the northeast so I think when they do come, I have no chance.  In my late 50's, I can't do GA.  I liked the idea of that lottery where 10C latecomers (who are likely as big of fans as the rest) had a chance to be up close.  Or maybe the 1 show per tour might be best?  Where you get that 1st few row experience, and then maybe a 2nd tier between that and Ticketmaster for your 2nd-Nth show.  More of a 1-home-show type of thing - Maybe.  Seems more like a caste system right now.  Like I'm a 2002 10C and will be far back for life, no chance of getting better seats.  That 10C number doesn't reflect my degree of fan-ship.  My vote is 1-hometown show.

mpedone

MG79478 said:

mpedone said:

MG79478 said:

100 Pacer said:

NewfieintheUSA said:

I agree mostly, but not everyone had the means or were in situations that prevented them from maintaining their TC membership over the years. Please don't start with I've been a TC member longer so I'm a bigger/better fan. 

The fan club doesn’t exist in a vacuum. Having said that I think the majority have looked at seniority purely from a ticketing standpoint and the opportunity for better seats if seniority was maintained. That shouldn’t change. Seniority says nothing of one’s fandom level.

There is nothing more precious that we can give than our time.  Sure there are other measures of fandom, but to think that seniority (i.e. loyalty over time) says nothing about one's fandom level, is frankly ridiculous.

Some people have given the band plenty of their time, but maybe not their money, for various reasons. To quote the OP, "try to remember everyone leads a unique life with its own ups and downs".

I'm fine with seniority for seats. I can make excuses for why I let my membership lapse, but that's not important. What sticks in my craw are the people who think they deserve tickets over me because they were able to maintain their membership for longer, or joined when I was listening to Pearl Jam every day, but didn't even know the fan club existed. If that person want to tell me that they deserved 2nd row at Fenway over me, I won't argue. If they got shut out of Nashville, and try to tell me they deserve tickets more than me? Nope.

Everyone does lead a unique life, some prioritized 10C, some did not.  For those that made 10C a priority, they can prove their loyalty and support, those who did not prioritize 10C can not. There is no "proof of support" form you can file.   It doesn't matter if you say you've listened to Vitology non-stop on repeat for the last 25 years, we'd just have to take your word for it.

Maybe we should worry less about "proving" our fandom?

hedonist

mpedone said:

MG79478 said:

mpedone said:

MG79478 said:

100 Pacer said:

NewfieintheUSA said:

I agree mostly, but not everyone had the means or were in situations that prevented them from maintaining their TC membership over the years. Please don't start with I've been a TC member longer so I'm a bigger/better fan. 

The fan club doesn’t exist in a vacuum. Having said that I think the majority have looked at seniority purely from a ticketing standpoint and the opportunity for better seats if seniority was maintained. That shouldn’t change. Seniority says nothing of one’s fandom level.

There is nothing more precious that we can give than our time.  Sure there are other measures of fandom, but to think that seniority (i.e. loyalty over time) says nothing about one's fandom level, is frankly ridiculous.

Some people have given the band plenty of their time, but maybe not their money, for various reasons. To quote the OP, "try to remember everyone leads a unique life with its own ups and downs".

I'm fine with seniority for seats. I can make excuses for why I let my membership lapse, but that's not important. What sticks in my craw are the people who think they deserve tickets over me because they were able to maintain their membership for longer, or joined when I was listening to Pearl Jam every day, but didn't even know the fan club existed. If that person want to tell me that they deserved 2nd row at Fenway over me, I won't argue. If they got shut out of Nashville, and try to tell me they deserve tickets more than me? Nope.

Everyone does lead a unique life, some prioritized 10C, some did not.  For those that made 10C a priority, they can prove their loyalty and support, those who did not prioritize 10C can not. There is no "proof of support" form you can file.   It doesn't matter if you say you've listened to Vitology non-stop on repeat for the last 25 years, we'd just have to take your word for it.

Maybe we should worry less about "proving" our fandom?

If only...

greatwoods98

Great post Darth thank you

longtime member here also
I remember the rumor pit

just wanted to add let’s remember longtime members have supported and helped to build the 10 club which believe it or not is a business
salaries, rent, benefits 401k I hope

we get better seats once every two years if we are lucky enough to win the lottery
i am currently 4 for 21 in the lottery

 I’m fine with that it’s a lottery we’ll not really 7 for 21 would be better I’m not too greedy 

I bought shares early on in Pearl Jam I don’t feel entitled I feel like a longtime member
not a bigger better fan just part of this great fan club 

enjoy the shows everyone
GW98

Evel K

Everyone should be able to see Pearl Jam from up close, but some people will get the last row in the farthest section.  I've never left a show saying they would've rocked harder if I was in the front row.  True front row tickets were once in my lifetime, and I have to thank 10 club for that. Lottery for rows 1-2 and 9-10 was another way they tried to spread the love. Going back to GA changed everything. Active members probably doubled if not tripled. Shutouts became a new harsh reality, especially for long time members. PJ20 was an innovative approach that never gained traction.  One night reserved and one on the lawn. This could work in cities when they play two nights. The old saying goes " You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all the time"   Around here, "You get what you get and you don't throw a fit" should be the 
new slogan.

RatherStarved

I think all members having an equal chance of tickets, and seniority determining reserved seat location, is a reasonable balance.  (I am on the newer side of things but not brand new.)

The only thing I would add is that given the popularity of GA perhaps it should be required to have been in the fan club for a bit longer than one day before the announcement in order to enter for GA (in North America anyway).  

MG79478

mpedone said:

MG79478 said:

mpedone said:

MG79478 said:

100 Pacer said:

NewfieintheUSA said:

I agree mostly, but not everyone had the means or were in situations that prevented them from maintaining their TC membership over the years. Please don't start with I've been a TC member longer so I'm a bigger/better fan. 

The fan club doesn’t exist in a vacuum. Having said that I think the majority have looked at seniority purely from a ticketing standpoint and the opportunity for better seats if seniority was maintained. That shouldn’t change. Seniority says nothing of one’s fandom level.

There is nothing more precious that we can give than our time.  Sure there are other measures of fandom, but to think that seniority (i.e. loyalty over time) says nothing about one's fandom level, is frankly ridiculous.

Some people have given the band plenty of their time, but maybe not their money, for various reasons. To quote the OP, "try to remember everyone leads a unique life with its own ups and downs".

I'm fine with seniority for seats. I can make excuses for why I let my membership lapse, but that's not important. What sticks in my craw are the people who think they deserve tickets over me because they were able to maintain their membership for longer, or joined when I was listening to Pearl Jam every day, but didn't even know the fan club existed. If that person want to tell me that they deserved 2nd row at Fenway over me, I won't argue. If they got shut out of Nashville, and try to tell me they deserve tickets more than me? Nope.

Everyone does lead a unique life, some prioritized 10C, some did not.  For those that made 10C a priority, they can prove their loyalty and support, those who did not prioritize 10C can not. There is no "proof of support" form you can file.   It doesn't matter if you say you've listened to Vitology non-stop on repeat for the last 25 years, we'd just have to take your word for it.

Maybe we should worry less about "proving" our fandom?

Maybe you should.  Maybe you should also tell that to the guy I was responding to who said "Seniority says nothing of one’s fandom level."  Clearly it does, which was my point.

MG79478

Veddernarian said:

Good post, a lot of good points.  I was a fan since I first really noticed Alive while heading to a Rite Aid in late 1990 to pick up fever medicine for my 11 month old son.  As a young parent and with a demanding job, I couldn't go to concerts.  I bought every CD, was amazed by them, and even drove around listening when they first came out.  PJ was there for me when I divorced, met someone, re-married, had new kids.  Seems like their songs had a relevant message and were the background tracks for my life.  As for the 10C, I really had no idea it existed.  Finally, when the internet took hold, I was in this forum when it used to look like an index.  I stumbled on it looking for stuff on the band.  In 2002, learned of 10C, joined it immediately.  Up until then, I was a huge fan, as much so as a 10C member since day-1.  I just had no idea.  Ok so what.  Before 2003, 10C members picked one show per tour and those seats were 1st few rows.  In 2003 and beyond, it was as many shows as you want.  The seating suffered.  For one show, I was halfway back in a stadium and in another rear floor and couldn't see.  I have maintained 10C membership since 2002 and analog since its inception.  The one thing I wish for personally is to be for once in my life in the 1st few rows.  Just to experience it once.  They don't come to LA often like they do in the northeast so I think when they do come, I have no chance.  In my late 50's, I can't do GA.  I liked the idea of that lottery where 10C latecomers (who are likely as big of fans as the rest) had a chance to be up close.  Or maybe the 1 show per tour might be best?  Where you get that 1st few row experience, and then maybe a 2nd tier between that and Ticketmaster for your 2nd-Nth show.  More of a 1-home-show type of thing - Maybe.  Seems more like a caste system right now.  Like I'm a 2002 10C and will be far back for life, no chance of getting better seats.  That 10C number doesn't reflect my degree of fan-ship.  My vote is 1-hometown show.

I feel for you, being a 10C member in the worst possible location... the middle.  The more senior members get all the good seats and never move on.  The newer members get the exact same access to tickets with much less investment... and sometimes even better seats when you get stuck on the back of the floor and they get the wings.

blackhawks

hedonist said:

blackhawks said:

As an ‘old’ fan (91 at CY Stevens in Ames IA row 4) and an older member here I think the seniority thing has run its course.  Sorry to those that disagree but it is a huge pain I bet selecting seats based on that.  And to automatically penalize someone who is younger and a fan seems odd just because they were born in a different time.  Perhaps there will be a better way in the future as they wind their career down.  Who knows.  Maybe I am softer because I saw them up front in their prime and traveling around a bunch doesn’t fit my life anymore....rather do other stuff quite frankly.  And I don’t see the need to see them 10-20 times per tour (never have understood that frankly).  But I love seeing them once or twice per tour if it fits my schedule.  I guess I would like to see others get the chance rather than seniority being the sole reason.

Flame away!

Not a flame, but the seniority applies to seat location only. I’m pretty sure there’s no conspiracy to withhold tickets to some based on their age

Oh I get that.  Just thinking they could sprinkle in some for the newer people for each show or something.  Seats closer.  The squatters rights thing seems a little meh now to me.

I let my U2 lapse and will not rejoins that one some 4-5 years ago.  PJ is my #1 though so......  But who knows which one is next as I age.  

mpedone

MG79478 said:

mpedone said:

MG79478 said:

mpedone said:

MG79478 said:

100 Pacer said:

NewfieintheUSA said:

I agree mostly, but not everyone had the means or were in situations that prevented them from maintaining their TC membership over the years. Please don't start with I've been a TC member longer so I'm a bigger/better fan. 

The fan club doesn’t exist in a vacuum. Having said that I think the majority have looked at seniority purely from a ticketing standpoint and the opportunity for better seats if seniority was maintained. That shouldn’t change. Seniority says nothing of one’s fandom level.

There is nothing more precious that we can give than our time.  Sure there are other measures of fandom, but to think that seniority (i.e. loyalty over time) says nothing about one's fandom level, is frankly ridiculous.

Some people have given the band plenty of their time, but maybe not their money, for various reasons. To quote the OP, "try to remember everyone leads a unique life with its own ups and downs".

I'm fine with seniority for seats. I can make excuses for why I let my membership lapse, but that's not important. What sticks in my craw are the people who think they deserve tickets over me because they were able to maintain their membership for longer, or joined when I was listening to Pearl Jam every day, but didn't even know the fan club existed. If that person want to tell me that they deserved 2nd row at Fenway over me, I won't argue. If they got shut out of Nashville, and try to tell me they deserve tickets more than me? Nope.

Everyone does lead a unique life, some prioritized 10C, some did not.  For those that made 10C a priority, they can prove their loyalty and support, those who did not prioritize 10C can not. There is no "proof of support" form you can file.   It doesn't matter if you say you've listened to Vitology non-stop on repeat for the last 25 years, we'd just have to take your word for it.

Maybe we should worry less about "proving" our fandom?

Maybe you should.  Maybe you should also tell that to the guy I was responding to who said "Seniority says nothing of one’s fandom level."  Clearly it does, which was my point.

Yes, I read your point, which is why I responded to you, as I disagree with you. What is the purpose of trying to prove you're a "bigger" fan than someone else on here?

Merkin Baller

blackhawks said:

hedonist said:

blackhawks said:

As an ‘old’ fan (91 at CY Stevens in Ames IA row 4) and an older member here I think the seniority thing has run its course.  Sorry to those that disagree but it is a huge pain I bet selecting seats based on that.  And to automatically penalize someone who is younger and a fan seems odd just because they were born in a different time.  Perhaps there will be a better way in the future as they wind their career down.  Who knows.  Maybe I am softer because I saw them up front in their prime and traveling around a bunch doesn’t fit my life anymore....rather do other stuff quite frankly.  And I don’t see the need to see them 10-20 times per tour (never have understood that frankly).  But I love seeing them once or twice per tour if it fits my schedule.  I guess I would like to see others get the chance rather than seniority being the sole reason.

Flame away!

Not a flame, but the seniority applies to seat location only. I’m pretty sure there’s no conspiracy to withhold tickets to some based on their age

Oh I get that.  Just thinking they could sprinkle in some for the newer people for each show or something.  Seats closer.  The squatters rights thing seems a little meh now to me.

I let my U2 lapse and will not rejoins that one some 4-5 years ago.  PJ is my #1 though so......  But who knows which one is next as I age.  

"Sprinkle in some" better seats for newer people? They already offer GA for which everyone has an equal chance to land a ticket. For shows without GA, they randomly distribute the seats in the 1st, 2nd, 9th & 10th rows. Do you think they should do more? If so, then where do they start & stop with this?  

What about the people who have been in the club since the late 2000s? Do you "sprinkle in some" better seats for us? What about someone who joined in 2012? Or 2014? Do you only worry about people who joined in the last 2 years? 4 years?

How would giving a better seat to someone who joined last year be fair to all the people who have been told for all these years that sticking with the club has its benefits?

Your idea of fairness is unfair to others who have followed the rules and kept up with their dues all these years.

As someone else suggested, you should start a trend by letting your membership lapse.

Give some "newer people" a chance at better seats. Put your money where your mouth is.