All things Transgender related
Comments
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Gern Blansten said:ecdanc said:Spiritual_Chaos said:jeffbr said:tbergs said: I admit, it would take a lot of time for this concept to reach social and culture norm because it goes against every basic English language lesson we have ever been taught in regards to pronoun usage.
Sweden though uses it's own pronoun for situations where a specific gender is not known or wanted.
Han = Him
Hon = Her
Hen = "unknown gender"
But still, if there's a will there's a way. And how can it be wrong if it is decided upon. Then it is correct. And good people adjust instead of bickering about positive change/progress that is made to help fellow people.
that makes no fucking sense
Or how about vinyl and vinyl being the same both in plural and singular?
In the end, what does it matter? You don't go around saying "boom" now do you?
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
ecdanc said:jeffbr said:ecdanc said:jeffbr said:tbergs said: I admit, it would take a lot of time for this concept to reach social and culture norm because it goes against every basic English language lesson we have ever been taught in regards to pronoun usage.
Secondly, the gender/number issue is not problematic. Language evolves; we adapt to it. Dictionaries are already addressing the issue and many in the discipline of English--you know, where we study the language--are at the forefront of promoting the singular they.
And apologies regarding the homophobe accusation. You technically did not call Brian that. But you were relentless in pointing out your offense to him without being particularly instructive. It was apparent to most forum readers that Brian was not intending offense. You took what could have been an opportunity to educate and/or explain, and instead hurled insults and feigned offense, which is how you also seemed to respond to just about every other poster here. That will naturally get hackles raised, and then it is game on. So if your intention was to alienate and insult the group, you've accomplished that. If you intended to instruct and facilitate acceptance, sorry for your luck."I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/080 -
jeffbr said:
Are you comfortable with Gern's example: I should say "is they going to shut up?" Sounds like a one-toothed hillbilly."Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
jeffbr said:ecdanc said:jeffbr said:ecdanc said:jeffbr said:tbergs said: I admit, it would take a lot of time for this concept to reach social and culture norm because it goes against every basic English language lesson we have ever been taught in regards to pronoun usage.
Secondly, the gender/number issue is not problematic. Language evolves; we adapt to it. Dictionaries are already addressing the issue and many in the discipline of English--you know, where we study the language--are at the forefront of promoting the singular they.
And apologies regarding the homophobe accusation. You technically did not call Brian that. But you were relentless in pointing out your offense to him without being particularly instructive. It was apparent to most forum readers that Brian was not intending offense. You took what could have been an opportunity to educate and/or explain, and instead hurled insults and feigned offense, which is how you also seemed to respond to just about every other poster here. That will naturally get hackles raised, and then it is game on. So if your intention was to alienate and insult the group, you've accomplished that. If you intended to instruct and facilitate acceptance, sorry for your luck.
The term "those people" gets mocked, but using "they" is seen as ok?
This gets confusing yo!0 -
jeffbr said:ecdanc said:jeffbr said:ecdanc said:jeffbr said:tbergs said: I admit, it would take a lot of time for this concept to reach social and culture norm because it goes against every basic English language lesson we have ever been taught in regards to pronoun usage.
Secondly, the gender/number issue is not problematic. Language evolves; we adapt to it. Dictionaries are already addressing the issue and many in the discipline of English--you know, where we study the language--are at the forefront of promoting the singular they.
And apologies regarding the homophobe accusation. You technically did not call Brian that. But you were relentless in pointing out your offense to him without being particularly instructive. It was apparent to most forum readers that Brian was not intending offense. You took what could have been an opportunity to educate and/or explain, and instead hurled insults and feigned offense, which is how you also seemed to respond to just about every other poster here. That will naturally get hackles raised, and then it is game on. So if your intention was to alienate and insult the group, you've accomplished that. If you intended to instruct and facilitate acceptance, sorry for your luck.
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Spiritual_Chaos said:Gern Blansten said:ecdanc said:Spiritual_Chaos said:jeffbr said:tbergs said: I admit, it would take a lot of time for this concept to reach social and culture norm because it goes against every basic English language lesson we have ever been taught in regards to pronoun usage.
Sweden though uses it's own pronoun for situations where a specific gender is not known or wanted.
Han = Him
Hon = Her
Hen = "unknown gender"
But still, if there's a will there's a way. And how can it be wrong if it is decided upon. Then it is correct. And good people adjust instead of bickering about positive change/progress that is made to help fellow people.
that makes no fucking sense
Or how about vinyl and vinyl being the same both in plural and singular?
In the end, what does it matter? You don't go around saying "boom" now do you?
Don't get me started on Houston st(pronounced HOW-stun) and Houston(pronounced Hue-stun). The term So-ho, meaning South of Houston should actually be pronounced Sow-how.
Insert middle finger emoji here...0 -
tempo_n_groove said:Spiritual_Chaos said:Gern Blansten said:ecdanc said:Spiritual_Chaos said:jeffbr said:tbergs said: I admit, it would take a lot of time for this concept to reach social and culture norm because it goes against every basic English language lesson we have ever been taught in regards to pronoun usage.
Sweden though uses it's own pronoun for situations where a specific gender is not known or wanted.
Han = Him
Hon = Her
Hen = "unknown gender"
But still, if there's a will there's a way. And how can it be wrong if it is decided upon. Then it is correct. And good people adjust instead of bickering about positive change/progress that is made to help fellow people.
that makes no fucking sense
Or how about vinyl and vinyl being the same both in plural and singular?
In the end, what does it matter? You don't go around saying "boom" now do you?"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Spiritual_Chaos said:jeffbr said:
Are you comfortable with Gern's example: I should say "is they going to shut up?" Sounds like a one-toothed hillbilly."I'll use the magic word - let's just shut the fuck up, please." EV, 04/13/080 -
Spiritual_Chaos said:jeffbr said:
Are you comfortable with Gern's example: I should say "is they going to shut up?" Sounds like a one-toothed hillbilly.
I'd estimate you have very few people over 45 that really understand this movement and why they need to change their way of speaking for what they see as a non issue either way because it is not something they encounter in their work or social settings. Even just 5 years ago, it was almost a non-existent topic. Personally we have numerous friends who have young children (all under 10) who who are choosing to identify either neutrally (they, it, them) or as the opposite of their assigned sex. In every case, the parents are supportive and educating themselves as well as us as friends and fellow parents of young children. It means talking with our own children about how their friend is identifying without associating any negative stereotypes or judgments. It really doesn't change much for them because their friend is still their friend who they enjoy playing with even though they may now wear different clothes or go by a different name.It's a hopeless situation...0 -
jeffbr said:Spiritual_Chaos said:jeffbr said:
Are you comfortable with Gern's example: I should say "is they going to shut up?" Sounds like a one-toothed hillbilly.0 -
jeffbr said:Spiritual_Chaos said:jeffbr said:
Are you comfortable with Gern's example: I should say "is they going to shut up?" Sounds like a one-toothed hillbilly.
They in this context was named Word of the Year for 2015 by the American Dialect Society, and for 2019 by Merriam-Webster. In 2020, the American Dialect Society also selected it as Word of the Decade for the 2010s.
So you are actually attacking and bickering over correct grammar. Is your mind blown yet?
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Spiritual_Chaos said:tempo_n_groove said:Spiritual_Chaos said:Gern Blansten said:ecdanc said:Spiritual_Chaos said:jeffbr said:tbergs said: I admit, it would take a lot of time for this concept to reach social and culture norm because it goes against every basic English language lesson we have ever been taught in regards to pronoun usage.
Sweden though uses it's own pronoun for situations where a specific gender is not known or wanted.
Han = Him
Hon = Her
Hen = "unknown gender"
But still, if there's a will there's a way. And how can it be wrong if it is decided upon. Then it is correct. And good people adjust instead of bickering about positive change/progress that is made to help fellow people.
that makes no fucking sense
Or how about vinyl and vinyl being the same both in plural and singular?
In the end, what does it matter? You don't go around saying "boom" now do you?0 -
tempo_n_groove said:Spiritual_Chaos said:tempo_n_groove said:Spiritual_Chaos said:Gern Blansten said:ecdanc said:Spiritual_Chaos said:jeffbr said:tbergs said: I admit, it would take a lot of time for this concept to reach social and culture norm because it goes against every basic English language lesson we have ever been taught in regards to pronoun usage.
Sweden though uses it's own pronoun for situations where a specific gender is not known or wanted.
Han = Him
Hon = Her
Hen = "unknown gender"
But still, if there's a will there's a way. And how can it be wrong if it is decided upon. Then it is correct. And good people adjust instead of bickering about positive change/progress that is made to help fellow people.
that makes no fucking sense
Or how about vinyl and vinyl being the same both in plural and singular?
In the end, what does it matter? You don't go around saying "boom" now do you?0 -
I'm certainly willing to try and use whatever anyone wants in regards to pronouns. And I would expect them to be willing to let me know in a pleasant manner and also work to see intent. If I screw up, don't beat me up for it. I find it a very hard subject to even think about and remember, probably because while I have had many Ls and Gs throughout my life, I don't believe I've had many Ts. Although thinking about it, probably at least 1 of those Ls is a T.
Regardless, it comes down to everyone just being compassionate with each other.hippiemom = goodness0 -
tbergs said:Spiritual_Chaos said:jeffbr said:
Are you comfortable with Gern's example: I should say "is they going to shut up?" Sounds like a one-toothed hillbilly.
I'd estimate you have very few people over 45 that really understand this movement and why they need to change their way of speaking for what they see as a non issue either way because it is not something they encounter in their work or social settings. Even just 5 years ago, it was almost a non-existent topic. Personally we have numerous friends who have young children (all under 10) who who are choosing to identify either neutrally (they, it, them) or as the opposite of their assigned sex. In every case, the parents are supportive and educating themselves as well as us as friends and fellow parents of young children. It means talking with our own children about how their friend is identifying without associating any negative stereotypes or judgments. It really doesn't change much for them because their friend is still their friend who they enjoy playing with even though they may now wear different clothes or go by a different name.
People also e.g. attacked when a movement formed to change the name of beloved pastry "n-word ball" to "chocolate ball".
What I have noticed during my 36 years on this planet (but please keep labeling me a millennial @mcgruff10) is that it is most often better to be a person who goes with and encouraging positive change, than be one of the ones standing with their arms folded. Historically they often end up on the wrong side of it. Whatever age they might be in.
Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
Spiritual_Chaos said:tbergs said:Spiritual_Chaos said:jeffbr said:
Are you comfortable with Gern's example: I should say "is they going to shut up?" Sounds like a one-toothed hillbilly.
I'd estimate you have very few people over 45 that really understand this movement and why they need to change their way of speaking for what they see as a non issue either way because it is not something they encounter in their work or social settings. Even just 5 years ago, it was almost a non-existent topic. Personally we have numerous friends who have young children (all under 10) who who are choosing to identify either neutrally (they, it, them) or as the opposite of their assigned sex. In every case, the parents are supportive and educating themselves as well as us as friends and fellow parents of young children. It means talking with our own children about how their friend is identifying without associating any negative stereotypes or judgments. It really doesn't change much for them because their friend is still their friend who they enjoy playing with even though they may now wear different clothes or go by a different name.
People also e.g. attacked when a movement formed to change the name of beloved pastry "n-word ball" to "chocolate ball"
What I have noticed during my 36 years on this planet (but please keep labeling me a millennial @mcgruff10) is that it is most often better to be a person who goes with and encouraging positive change, than be one of the ones standing with their arms folded. Historically they often end up on the wrong side it. Whatever age they might be in.
hippiemom = goodness0 -
cincybearcat said:I'm certainly willing to try and use whatever anyone wants in regards to pronouns. And I would expect them to be willing to let me know in a pleasant manner and also work to see intent. If I screw up, don't beat me up for it. I find it a very hard subject to even think about and remember, probably because while I have had many Ls and Gs throughout my life, I don't believe I've had many Ts. Although thinking about it, probably at least 1 of those Ls is a T.
Regardless, it comes down to everyone just being compassionate with each other.0 -
cincybearcat said:Spiritual_Chaos said:tbergs said:Spiritual_Chaos said:jeffbr said:
Are you comfortable with Gern's example: I should say "is they going to shut up?" Sounds like a one-toothed hillbilly.
I'd estimate you have very few people over 45 that really understand this movement and why they need to change their way of speaking for what they see as a non issue either way because it is not something they encounter in their work or social settings. Even just 5 years ago, it was almost a non-existent topic. Personally we have numerous friends who have young children (all under 10) who who are choosing to identify either neutrally (they, it, them) or as the opposite of their assigned sex. In every case, the parents are supportive and educating themselves as well as us as friends and fellow parents of young children. It means talking with our own children about how their friend is identifying without associating any negative stereotypes or judgments. It really doesn't change much for them because their friend is still their friend who they enjoy playing with even though they may now wear different clothes or go by a different name.
People also e.g. attacked when a movement formed to change the name of beloved pastry "n-word ball" to "chocolate ball"
What I have noticed during my 36 years on this planet (but please keep labeling me a millennial @mcgruff10) is that it is most often better to be a person who goes with and encouraging positive change, than be one of the ones standing with their arms folded. Historically they often end up on the wrong side it. Whatever age they might be in."Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"0 -
ecdanc said:cincybearcat said:I'm certainly willing to try and use whatever anyone wants in regards to pronouns. And I would expect them to be willing to let me know in a pleasant manner and also work to see intent. If I screw up, don't beat me up for it. I find it a very hard subject to even think about and remember, probably because while I have had many Ls and Gs throughout my life, I don't believe I've had many Ts. Although thinking about it, probably at least 1 of those Ls is a T.
Regardless, it comes down to everyone just being compassionate with each other.It's a hopeless situation...0 -
jeffbr said:ecdanc said:jeffbr said:ecdanc said:jeffbr said:tbergs said: I admit, it would take a lot of time for this concept to reach social and culture norm because it goes against every basic English language lesson we have ever been taught in regards to pronoun usage.
Secondly, the gender/number issue is not problematic. Language evolves; we adapt to it. Dictionaries are already addressing the issue and many in the discipline of English--you know, where we study the language--are at the forefront of promoting the singular they.
And apologies regarding the homophobe accusation. You technically did not call Brian that. But you were relentless in pointing out your offense to him without being particularly instructive. It was apparent to most forum readers that Brian was not intending offense. You took what could have been an opportunity to educate and/or explain, and instead hurled insults and feigned offense, which is how you also seemed to respond to just about every other poster here. That will naturally get hackles raised, and then it is game on. So if your intention was to alienate and insult the group, you've accomplished that. If you intended to instruct and facilitate acceptance, sorry for your luck.
This doesn't have to be a big deal, I don't know why some people want to make it a big deal.0
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