The coronavirus

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  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    lastexitlondon said:
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    lastexitlondon said:
    The  delta is running  through our country  now at 20.000 a day. Mark my words  once it starts  there you all will see how  fast this is spreading im not saying vaccinate kids . 
    This is fast. 
    Right.  You are in the UK and as the study I linked on the last page states, out of 53,000+ unvaxxed people there were only 44 deaths.

    So would you not want this strain running through the country in order to get to that herd immunity number, whatever it is?  Vax + antibodies = herd?  Or am I looking at this wrong?
    We are having about 150.000 confirmed cases  a week min. Atm. So that will add up to 150 deaths a week with those equations . So no i wouldn't  want that at all.  See what it adds upto? And with lag and  rapid increase  by a few  1000 a day each week . Its very bad
    Again, maybe I am missing or something or my math is funky or whatever, but by the numbers you mention, 150,000 cases with 150 deaths puts the chance to survive at 99.9%.  A quick google hit of "UK Covid" seems to suggest what you are saying, rising cases but the deaths are not following, nor are the hospitalizations.  Obviously, no one wants any death.  Ever.  But after what we have went through the past year, do these numbers not suggest this is nowhere near as bad as the original?
    Ok genius.  What about the unknowns?  The damage the virus 🦠 does to those who survive and even the long term unknowns…like does the virus shorten your life by possibly causing long term issues?
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • gvn2fly1421
    gvn2fly1421 Posts: 935
    Kat said:

    added...
    Oh, and I'll listen to the medical community for information on a medical condition, not other "experts" who may have other motives to downplay what could affect our lives and health and the health of our families. It's those pesky underlying conditions again I keep thinking about too. We've had enough death.
    Does the inventor of mRNA vaccines count as "medical community"?



    Also, he had his account restricted recently by LinkedIn...  Nothing to see here...


  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,359
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    lastexitlondon said:
    The  delta is running  through our country  now at 20.000 a day. Mark my words  once it starts  there you all will see how  fast this is spreading im not saying vaccinate kids . 
    This is fast. 
    Right.  You are in the UK and as the study I linked on the last page states, out of 53,000+ unvaxxed people there were only 44 deaths.

    So would you not want this strain running through the country in order to get to that herd immunity number, whatever it is?  Vax + antibodies = herd?  Or am I looking at this wrong?
    I posted this article from the Mayo Clinic below. It basically addresses why you're looking at it wrong. (https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808)

    Seeking mass natural infections is reckless, and carries a higher probability of leading to deaths than seeking vaccines which have an exceptionally low probability. Also, it's circular logic since if people went out en masse to seek infections, they would also expose people who aren't seeking the same to this risk.

    I'm sure this wouldn't be popular, but I feel that if you're part of an under-tested or naturally-high-risk segment of the population based on medical conditions, or one demonstrated unsafe, you should have the right to refuse the vaccine; and in all other cases you should be obligated to take it.




    Herd immunity and COVID-19 (coronavirus): What you need to know

    Understand what's known about herd immunity and what it means for coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19).

    Curious about progress toward herd immunity against the coronavirus disease 2019 (COVID-19)? Understand how herd immunity works, its role in ending the COVID-19 pandemic and the challenges involved.

    Why is herd immunity important?

    Herd immunity occurs when a large portion of a community (the herd) becomes immune to a disease, making the spread of disease from person to person unlikely. As a result, the whole community becomes protected — not just those who are immune.

    Often, a percentage of the population must be capable of getting a disease in order for it to spread. This is called a threshold proportion. If the proportion of the population that is immune to the disease is greater than this threshold, the spread of the disease will decline. This is known as the herd immunity threshold.

    What percentage of a community needs to be immune in order to achieve herd immunity? It varies from disease to disease. The more contagious a disease is, the greater the proportion of the population that needs to be immune to the disease to stop its spread. For example, the measles is a highly contagious illness. It's estimated that 94% of the population must be immune to interrupt the chain of transmission.

    How is herd immunity achieved?

    There are two main paths to herd immunity for COVID-19 — infection and vaccines.

    Natural infection

    Herd immunity can be reached when enough people in the population have recovered from a disease and have developed protective antibodies against future infection.

    However, there are some major problems with relying on community infection to create herd immunity to the virus that causes COVID-19:

    • Reinfection. It’s not clear how long you are protected from getting sick again after recovering from COVID-19. Even if you have antibodies, it’s possible that you could get COVID-19 again.
    • Health impact. Experts estimate that in the U.S., 70% of the population — more than 200 million people — would have to recover from COVID-19 to halt the pandemic. This number of infections could lead to serious complications and millions of deaths, especially among older people and those who have existing health conditions. The health care system could quickly become overwhelmed.

    Vaccines

    Herd immunity also can be reached when enough people have been vaccinated against a disease and have developed protective antibodies against future infection. Unlike the natural infection method, vaccines create immunity without causing illness or resulting complications. Using the concept of herd immunity, vaccines have successfully controlled contagious diseases such as smallpox, polio, diphtheria, rubella and many others.

    Herd immunity makes it possible to protect the population from a disease, including those who can't be vaccinated, such as newborns or those who have compromised immune systems.

    The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has given emergency use authorization to a handful of COVID-19 vaccines.

    But reaching herd immunity through vaccination against COVID-19 might be difficult for many reasons. For example:

    • Vaccine hesitancy. Some people may object to getting a COVID-19 vaccine because of religious objections, fears about the possible risks or skepticism about the benefits. If the proportion of vaccinated people in a community is below the herd immunity threshold, a contagious disease could continue to spread.
    • Protection questions. It’s not clear how long the COVID-19 vaccines will protect you from COVID-19. Further research is needed to see how much the COVID-19 vaccines reduce transmission of the COVID-19 virus. Also, research suggests that COVID-19 vaccines may have lower efficacy against some of the variants of the COVID-19 virus. New variants, which could be more resistant to vaccines, are regularly emerging.
    • Uneven vaccine roll-out. The distribution of COVID-19 vaccines has greatly varied among and within countries. If one community achieves a high COVID-19 vaccination rate and surrounding areas don’t, outbreaks can occur if the populations mix.

    What’s the outlook for achieving herd immunity in the U.S.?

    The U.S. is currently making progress toward herd immunity through a combined approach. The number of fully vaccinated adults continues to rise. In addition, more than 31 million people in the U.S. have had confirmed infections with the COVID-19 virus — though, again, it’s not clear how long immunity lasts after infection.

    Given the challenges, it’s not clear if or when the U.S. will achieve herd immunity.

    However, the FDA-authorized COVID-19 vaccines are highly effective at protecting against severe illness requiring hospitalization and death due to COVID-19. Even if it isn’t currently possible to stop transmission of the COVID-19 virus, the vaccines are allowing people to better be able to live with the virus.

    How can you slow the transmission of COVID-19?

    When possible, get a COVID-19 vaccine. If you’re fully vaccinated, you can return to doing activities you might not have been able to do because of the pandemic, including not wearing a mask or social distancing in any setting — except where required by a rule or law.

    If you haven’t had a COVID-19 vaccine, take steps to reduce the risk of infection:

    • Avoid close contact (within about 6 feet, or 2 meters) with anyone who is sick or has symptoms.
    • Keep distance between yourself and others (within about 6 feet, or 2 meters). This is especially important if you have a higher risk of serious illness. Keep in mind some people may have the COVID-19 virus and spread it to others, even if they don't have symptoms.
    • Wash your hands often with soap and water for at least 20 seconds, or use an alcohol-based hand sanitizer that contains at least 60% alcohol.
    • Wear a face mask in indoor public spaces and outdoors where there is a high risk of COVID-19 transmission, such as at a crowded event or large gathering. Further mask guidance differs depending on whether you are fully vaccinated or unvaccinated. Surgical masks may be used if available. N95 respirators should be reserved for health care providers.
    • Cover your mouth and nose with your elbow or a tissue when you cough or sneeze. Throw away the used tissue.
    • Avoid touching your eyes, nose and mouth.
    • Avoid sharing dishes, glasses, bedding and other household items if you're sick.
    • Clean and disinfect high-touch surfaces, such as doorknobs, light switches, electronics and counters, daily.
    • Stay home from work, school and public areas if you're sick, unless you're going to get medical care. Avoid public transportation, taxis and ride-sharing if you're sick.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • gvn2fly1421
    gvn2fly1421 Posts: 935
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    Kat said:

    added...
    Oh, and I'll listen to the medical community for information on a medical condition, not other "experts" who may have other motives to downplay what could affect our lives and health and the health of our families. It's those pesky underlying conditions again I keep thinking about too. We've had enough death.
    Does the inventor of mRNA vaccines count as "medical community"?



    Also, he had his account restricted recently by LinkedIn...  Nothing to see here...


    Just who is Robert Malone?  Starts at 2:00 minute mark of the video below.


  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,111
    some of these side effects are crazy, one must ask if it is really worth it.  to each their own.
    • headache, flushing, indigestion, mild and temporary vision changes, such as a blue tinge in your vision, blurred vision, and sensitivity to light, nasal congestion (stuffy nose), back pain, muscle pain, nausea, dizziness, rash, Non-arteritic anterior ischemic optic neuropathy (NAION), which is an eye condition that causes damage to your optic nerve, sudden decrease or loss of hearing, 
    • allergic rection
    • low blood pressure, cardiovascular problems, such as heart attack, irregular heartbeat or stroke 
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • gvn2fly1421
    gvn2fly1421 Posts: 935
    benjs said:
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    lastexitlondon said:
    The  delta is running  through our country  now at 20.000 a day. Mark my words  once it starts  there you all will see how  fast this is spreading im not saying vaccinate kids . 
    This is fast. 
    Right.  You are in the UK and as the study I linked on the last page states, out of 53,000+ unvaxxed people there were only 44 deaths.

    So would you not want this strain running through the country in order to get to that herd immunity number, whatever it is?  Vax + antibodies = herd?  Or am I looking at this wrong?
    I posted this article from the Mayo Clinic below. It basically addresses why you're looking at it wrong. (https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808)

    Seeking mass natural infections is reckless, and carries a higher probability of leading to deaths than seeking vaccines which have an exceptionally low probability. Also, it's circular logic since if people went out en masse to seek infections, they would also expose people who aren't seeking the same to this risk.

    I'm sure this wouldn't be popular, but I feel that if you're part of an under-tested or naturally-high-risk segment of the population based on medical conditions, or one demonstrated unsafe, you should have the right to refuse the vaccine; and in all other cases you should be obligated to take it.
    Thank you for the reply and article.  
  • gvn2fly1421
    gvn2fly1421 Posts: 935
    mcgruff10 said:
    some of these side effects are crazy, one must ask if it is really worth it.  to each their own.
    • headache, flushing, indigestion, mild and temporary vision changes, such as a blue tinge in your vision, blurred vision, and sensitivity to light, nasal congestion (stuffy nose), back pain, muscle pain, nausea, dizziness, rash, Non-arteritic anterior ischemic optic neuropathy (NAION), which is an eye condition that causes damage to your optic nerve, sudden decrease or loss of hearing, 
    • allergic rection
    • low blood pressure, cardiovascular problems, such as heart attack, irregular heartbeat or stroke 
    What are these side effects of?
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,359
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    benjs said:
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    lastexitlondon said:
    The  delta is running  through our country  now at 20.000 a day. Mark my words  once it starts  there you all will see how  fast this is spreading im not saying vaccinate kids . 
    This is fast. 
    Right.  You are in the UK and as the study I linked on the last page states, out of 53,000+ unvaxxed people there were only 44 deaths.

    So would you not want this strain running through the country in order to get to that herd immunity number, whatever it is?  Vax + antibodies = herd?  Or am I looking at this wrong?
    I posted this article from the Mayo Clinic below. It basically addresses why you're looking at it wrong. (https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808)

    Seeking mass natural infections is reckless, and carries a higher probability of leading to deaths than seeking vaccines which have an exceptionally low probability. Also, it's circular logic since if people went out en masse to seek infections, they would also expose people who aren't seeking the same to this risk.

    I'm sure this wouldn't be popular, but I feel that if you're part of an under-tested or naturally-high-risk segment of the population based on medical conditions, or one demonstrated unsafe, you should have the right to refuse the vaccine; and in all other cases you should be obligated to take it.
    Thank you for the reply and article.  
    So, since you responded to this but didn't disagree - can I assume you agree with me?
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • cblock4life
    cblock4life Posts: 1,855
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    some of these side effects are crazy, one must ask if it is really worth it.  to each their own.
    • headache, flushing, indigestion, mild and temporary vision changes, such as a blue tinge in your vision, blurred vision, and sensitivity to light, nasal congestion (stuffy nose), back pain, muscle pain, nausea, dizziness, rash, Non-arteritic anterior ischemic optic neuropathy (NAION), which is an eye condition that causes damage to your optic nerve, sudden decrease or loss of hearing, 
    • allergic rection
    • low blood pressure, cardiovascular problems, such as heart attack, irregular heartbeat or stroke 
    What are these side effects of?
    Even if it’s the vaccination it’s no different than the list of effects they throw at us during drug commercials for statins, ED, etc. 
  • gvn2fly1421
    gvn2fly1421 Posts: 935
    benjs said:
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    benjs said:
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    lastexitlondon said:
    The  delta is running  through our country  now at 20.000 a day. Mark my words  once it starts  there you all will see how  fast this is spreading im not saying vaccinate kids . 
    This is fast. 
    Right.  You are in the UK and as the study I linked on the last page states, out of 53,000+ unvaxxed people there were only 44 deaths.

    So would you not want this strain running through the country in order to get to that herd immunity number, whatever it is?  Vax + antibodies = herd?  Or am I looking at this wrong?
    I posted this article from the Mayo Clinic below. It basically addresses why you're looking at it wrong. (https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808)

    Seeking mass natural infections is reckless, and carries a higher probability of leading to deaths than seeking vaccines which have an exceptionally low probability. Also, it's circular logic since if people went out en masse to seek infections, they would also expose people who aren't seeking the same to this risk.

    I'm sure this wouldn't be popular, but I feel that if you're part of an under-tested or naturally-high-risk segment of the population based on medical conditions, or one demonstrated unsafe, you should have the right to refuse the vaccine; and in all other cases you should be obligated to take it.
    Thank you for the reply and article.  
    So, since you responded to this but didn't disagree - can I assume you agree with me?
    Hmmm, maybe.  Don't know if I agree or what, but I will respond to certain things you stated.

    "Seeking mass natural infections is reckless, and carries a higher probability of leading to deaths than seeking vaccines which have an exceptionally low probability."

    If the US was an island and covid was going all over the world but hadn't hit the US, I think this makes sense.  However, with our current situation (~50% vaxxed and 33 million cases) I do not know if it does, especially with this variant that on the surface doesn't seem to be as lethal.  As others have pointed out, "wait two weeks".  We will see.

    "    Also, it's circular logic since if people went out en masse to seek infections, they would also expose people who aren't seeking the same to this risk."

    At this point in time in the US, are those who aren't seeking the same risk probably vaccinated?  In other words, we all know what's at stake at this stage.

    "I'm sure this wouldn't be popular, but I feel that if you're part of an under-tested or naturally-high-risk segment of the population based on medical conditions, or one demonstrated unsafe, you should have the right to refuse the vaccine; and in all other cases you should be obligated to take it."

    Honestly, I am not sure what this means.  Where would I fall?  Get a pass for opting out of the vaccine or do you feel I should be obligated to take it?

    Also, my reply to you was a "thank you" for posting opinion and information and not going on a profanity laced tirade for a legitimate discussion I am trying to have regarding variants.
  • cblock4life
    cblock4life Posts: 1,855
    cincybearcat said:
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    Everything I have read regarding the variants, the more variants the more contagious, however the less lethal. 

    Is this an agreed upon stance here?
    So, 10 or so replies since this post and not one disagreement.  As the virus mutates, it becomes more contagious and less deadly.  Glad we all agree on that.

    The question becomes, why is our President sending a message like this knowing it is false?



    And why do we have a need for a response team for Delta?



    You really shouldn't take it that way.  Just people have learned to ignore you some.  
    Unfortunately that’s exactly what I did….I’m not even sure I read it fully.  Why respond when it changes nothing.  I just don’t want to read misinformation. 
  • cblock4life
    cblock4life Posts: 1,855
    oftenreading said:
    Will also add that the benefits of improved treatments in hospital are lost if the health care system gets overwhelmed again and those treatments can’t be provided. 
    Holy shit, a solid rational statement.  You unvaccinated need to listen to her
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,111
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    some of these side effects are crazy, one must ask if it is really worth it.  to each their own.
    • headache, flushing, indigestion, mild and temporary vision changes, such as a blue tinge in your vision, blurred vision, and sensitivity to light, nasal congestion (stuffy nose), back pain, muscle pain, nausea, dizziness, rash, Non-arteritic anterior ischemic optic neuropathy (NAION), which is an eye condition that causes damage to your optic nerve, sudden decrease or loss of hearing, 
    • allergic rection
    • low blood pressure, cardiovascular problems, such as heart attack, irregular heartbeat or stroke 
    What are these side effects of?
    Viagra.  Crazy that some of us will take a pill to get our junk hard with these side possible side effects but are afraid to get vaccinated to help out the world.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Poncier
    Poncier Posts: 17,868
    benjs said:
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    benjs said:
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    lastexitlondon said:
    The  delta is running  through our country  now at 20.000 a day. Mark my words  once it starts  there you all will see how  fast this is spreading im not saying vaccinate kids . 
    This is fast. 
    Right.  You are in the UK and as the study I linked on the last page states, out of 53,000+ unvaxxed people there were only 44 deaths.

    So would you not want this strain running through the country in order to get to that herd immunity number, whatever it is?  Vax + antibodies = herd?  Or am I looking at this wrong?
    I posted this article from the Mayo Clinic below. It basically addresses why you're looking at it wrong. (https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/coronavirus/in-depth/herd-immunity-and-coronavirus/art-20486808)

    Seeking mass natural infections is reckless, and carries a higher probability of leading to deaths than seeking vaccines which have an exceptionally low probability. Also, it's circular logic since if people went out en masse to seek infections, they would also expose people who aren't seeking the same to this risk.

    I'm sure this wouldn't be popular, but I feel that if you're part of an under-tested or naturally-high-risk segment of the population based on medical conditions, or one demonstrated unsafe, you should have the right to refuse the vaccine; and in all other cases you should be obligated to take it.
    Thank you for the reply and article.  
    So, since you responded to this but didn't disagree - can I assume you agree with me?
    That's how it works, isn't it?
    This weekend we rock Portland
  • JB16057
    JB16057 Posts: 1,269
    mcgruff10 said:
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    some of these side effects are crazy, one must ask if it is really worth it.  to each their own.
    • headache, flushing, indigestion, mild and temporary vision changes, such as a blue tinge in your vision, blurred vision, and sensitivity to light, nasal congestion (stuffy nose), back pain, muscle pain, nausea, dizziness, rash, Non-arteritic anterior ischemic optic neuropathy (NAION), which is an eye condition that causes damage to your optic nerve, sudden decrease or loss of hearing, 
    • allergic rection
    • low blood pressure, cardiovascular problems, such as heart attack, irregular heartbeat or stroke 
    What are these side effects of?
    Viagra.  Crazy that some of us will take a pill to get our junk hard with these side possible side effects but are afraid to get vaccinated to help out the world.  

    Yeah and some people shoot heroin between their toes. Do you think these people are getting vaccinated because they sure aren't doing anything else to save the world.
  • hedonist
    hedonist Posts: 24,524
    mcgruff10 said:
    gvn2fly1421 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    some of these side effects are crazy, one must ask if it is really worth it.  to each their own.
    • headache, flushing, indigestion, mild and temporary vision changes, such as a blue tinge in your vision, blurred vision, and sensitivity to light, nasal congestion (stuffy nose), back pain, muscle pain, nausea, dizziness, rash, Non-arteritic anterior ischemic optic neuropathy (NAION), which is an eye condition that causes damage to your optic nerve, sudden decrease or loss of hearing, 
    • allergic rection
    • low blood pressure, cardiovascular problems, such as heart attack, irregular heartbeat or stroke 
    What are these side effects of?
    Viagra.  Crazy that some of us will take a pill to get our junk hard with these side possible side effects but are afraid to get vaccinated to help out the world.  
    Pretty much everything has side effects. Hell, LIVING has side effects.

    To me, it’s a matter of (realistically) weighing your options. Is that hard-on worth it? Are life-long, life-saving meds worth it? Antidepressants? The list goes on…
  • gvn2fly1421
    gvn2fly1421 Posts: 935
    lastexitlondon said:
    Pointless 
    lastexitlondon said:
    The hospital  admissions are rising. Deaths  25 roughly  a day
     Which is lower.  But its early.  We have a lot of fully vaxxed
     And some are still getting it.  Where i live  cases  doubled this week. 
    The New York Times suggests something different.  

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/01/health/delta-variant-covid-england.html?smid=tw-share

    The Delta variant is not driving a surge in hospitalization rates in England, health data shows.



    "The Delta variant, which is now responsible for most coronavirus infections in England, is not driving a surge in the rate of hospitalizations there, according to data released by Public Health England on Thursday.

    Although the number of coronavirus infections has risen sharply in recent weeks, hospitalization rates remain low. Between June 21 and June 27, the weekly hospitalization rate was 1.9 per 100,000 people, the same as it was the previous week."

  • lastexitlondon
    lastexitlondon Posts: 14,874
    I didnt  say a surge
     I said rising which it is. 


    this song is meant to be called i got shit,itshould be called i got shit tickets-hartford 06 -
  • Weston1283
    Weston1283 Fredericksburg, VA Posts: 5,012

    2010: Cleveland
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  • gvn2fly1421
    gvn2fly1421 Posts: 935
    Does the CDC count as "medical community" or are they more in the realm of other "experts" who have motives?  Asking for a friend who sent me this CDC guidance which suggests masks....  Well, masks really don't do much.  It says surgical masks, "Does not provide the wearer with a reliable level of protection from inhaling smaller airborne particles and is not considered respiratory protection".  Oops.

    https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/understanddifferenceinfographic-508.pdf
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