The coronavirus
Comments
-
That makes more sense than the comment I responded to, of "he's not my governor, so why should I care" attitude.HughFreakingDillon said:
because those governors made decisions based on false intel. false intel that came directly from the president of the united states. the buck stops at the top. that's how it works.mace1229 said:
Why can't we be critical of more than 1 person at a time? Reminds me back in March and April, anytime someone brought up China you were accused of giving Trump a free pass. No. You are allowed to be critical of more than 1 person. And I think the leaders of the states and cities that were the hardest hit, and were doing the same things, down playing it, encouraging use of the subway and parades, not protecting the elderly in nursing homes, etc just days before the shutdown deserve to be critiqued. None of that means Trump did everything right, but there's more people to blame than just 1 person.mrussel1 said:
Put DeBlasio on the ballot here in Virginia and I'll vote against him. Until then, we're discussing the president; the man who had access to all of the intelligence who KNEW how dangerous it was and yet lied to us. The man who MOCKED wearing masks, who instigated people in states to protest closures when all along he knew it was deadly, terribly contagious and dangerous to people of all ages. He lied to us. Here's the thing. 60% of the country already knew he lied to us, but now we have audio proof.mace1229 said:
I agree with some of your points. I'm not a fan of how Trump responded to this, but I think a lot of others have been given a free pass. I don't know why more aren't fired up over Cuomo and DeBlasio, I think they did a worse job. Others as well, but they've gotten a free pass it seems like. Trump is seen without a mask at a press conference and its headline news, DeBlasio is seen without a mask out in public during stay at home orders and no one cares. I get he isn't the president, but he should be responsible for the city he's mayor of, you know, the worse city in the country in terms of covid.JB16057 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
so instead of discussing the substance, you attack the author's intentions.JB16057 said:Halifax2TheMax said:Team Trump Treason and his administration are responsible for most, if not all, of the misinformation out there as well as states and municipalities not doing what is necessary to understand, track, and deal with the spread.WHO has been wrong multiple times and they have absolutely nothing to do with Team Trump Treason as you put it. How about China telling the world that there is nothing to worry about? Had China been up front about this from the get go, the world could be in a better situation right now. I'm sure there are countless examples around the world. China is interfering with our election yet the only concerns I see are about Russia. Did Russia cause a world wide pandemic?In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic. Many leaders are guilty of this from both sides of the aisle. Governors could have shut down states in January or February but they didn't. I'm in Washington state. We had the first confirmed cases in the United States. Our Democratic Governor took this as serious as the president did. He could've shut down the state but he waited until mid-March when we were in a full blown pandemic. Our numbers are higher than ever. Why isn't he doing more to stop COVID? I could ask these questions all day long.The reason why I chimed in was because of the Bob Woodward article. These interviews were from January and February. If Trump's COVID response was so bad 8 months ago, why did Bob wait until now to talk about it? If Bob Woodward's intentions were pure, he would've released this information the day he had it. Instead he has to write a book to make money. Don't you think the timing is questionable? A true journalist wouldn't be concerned about writing a book and releasing this information 8 months too late!I did address it but you decided to look the other way, "In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic." Trump is an idiot but had Bob Woodward come out months ago, would that have saved lives? Would there have been more push back against Trump to do more? Yes, I do question his intentions just as you question Trump's.How many other countries that were successful in their initial response are now having an uptick in cases? Are you blaming them the same as you blame Trump? This virus is not something a world leader can just stop.
Even if you don't care about the tens of thousands dead in New York, the spread in NY impacted the entire country, he doesn't have to be your governor or mayor to care.
But that only takes some of the responsibility away, there were still bad decisions based ont he information they did have.
0 -
When I make arguments, I keep them laser focused, and dont' get distracted by whataboutism. The issue at hand is Trump's handling of the virus. But at least the NY politicians made decisions in good faith, based on what they knew at the time. Trump knew the virus was dangerous but deliberately downplayed it. He didn't encourage precautions, he didn't increase PPE production until APRIL! There's a huge difference between teh performance of the NY politicians and Trump based on what they factually knew and the public decisions, comments and actions.mace1229 said:
That makes more sense than the comment I responded to, of "he's not my governor, so why should I care" attitude.HughFreakingDillon said:
because those governors made decisions based on false intel. false intel that came directly from the president of the united states. the buck stops at the top. that's how it works.mace1229 said:
Why can't we be critical of more than 1 person at a time? Reminds me back in March and April, anytime someone brought up China you were accused of giving Trump a free pass. No. You are allowed to be critical of more than 1 person. And I think the leaders of the states and cities that were the hardest hit, and were doing the same things, down playing it, encouraging use of the subway and parades, not protecting the elderly in nursing homes, etc just days before the shutdown deserve to be critiqued. None of that means Trump did everything right, but there's more people to blame than just 1 person.mrussel1 said:
Put DeBlasio on the ballot here in Virginia and I'll vote against him. Until then, we're discussing the president; the man who had access to all of the intelligence who KNEW how dangerous it was and yet lied to us. The man who MOCKED wearing masks, who instigated people in states to protest closures when all along he knew it was deadly, terribly contagious and dangerous to people of all ages. He lied to us. Here's the thing. 60% of the country already knew he lied to us, but now we have audio proof.mace1229 said:
I agree with some of your points. I'm not a fan of how Trump responded to this, but I think a lot of others have been given a free pass. I don't know why more aren't fired up over Cuomo and DeBlasio, I think they did a worse job. Others as well, but they've gotten a free pass it seems like. Trump is seen without a mask at a press conference and its headline news, DeBlasio is seen without a mask out in public during stay at home orders and no one cares. I get he isn't the president, but he should be responsible for the city he's mayor of, you know, the worse city in the country in terms of covid.JB16057 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
so instead of discussing the substance, you attack the author's intentions.JB16057 said:Halifax2TheMax said:Team Trump Treason and his administration are responsible for most, if not all, of the misinformation out there as well as states and municipalities not doing what is necessary to understand, track, and deal with the spread.WHO has been wrong multiple times and they have absolutely nothing to do with Team Trump Treason as you put it. How about China telling the world that there is nothing to worry about? Had China been up front about this from the get go, the world could be in a better situation right now. I'm sure there are countless examples around the world. China is interfering with our election yet the only concerns I see are about Russia. Did Russia cause a world wide pandemic?In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic. Many leaders are guilty of this from both sides of the aisle. Governors could have shut down states in January or February but they didn't. I'm in Washington state. We had the first confirmed cases in the United States. Our Democratic Governor took this as serious as the president did. He could've shut down the state but he waited until mid-March when we were in a full blown pandemic. Our numbers are higher than ever. Why isn't he doing more to stop COVID? I could ask these questions all day long.The reason why I chimed in was because of the Bob Woodward article. These interviews were from January and February. If Trump's COVID response was so bad 8 months ago, why did Bob wait until now to talk about it? If Bob Woodward's intentions were pure, he would've released this information the day he had it. Instead he has to write a book to make money. Don't you think the timing is questionable? A true journalist wouldn't be concerned about writing a book and releasing this information 8 months too late!I did address it but you decided to look the other way, "In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic." Trump is an idiot but had Bob Woodward come out months ago, would that have saved lives? Would there have been more push back against Trump to do more? Yes, I do question his intentions just as you question Trump's.How many other countries that were successful in their initial response are now having an uptick in cases? Are you blaming them the same as you blame Trump? This virus is not something a world leader can just stop.
Even if you don't care about the tens of thousands dead in New York, the spread in NY impacted the entire country, he doesn't have to be your governor or mayor to care.
But that only takes some of the responsibility away, there were still bad decisions based ont he information they did have.0 -
The topic is the coronavirus. Again, seems like we aren't allowed to be critical of anyone but Trump when it comes to covid. And both Cuomo and DeBlasio both made bad decisions from the info they had. Both have been spotted in public without a mask, I think the nursing home law banning nursing homes the right to refuse positive patients while he's on TV saying I don't have the right to kill his mother so I need to stay home was a pretty bad decision.mrussel1 said:
When I make arguments, I keep them laser focused, and dont' get distracted by whataboutism. The issue at hand is Trump's handling of the virus. But at least the NY politicians made decisions in good faith, based on what they knew at the time. Trump knew the virus was dangerous but deliberately downplayed it. He didn't encourage precautions, he didn't increase PPE production until APRIL! There's a huge difference between teh performance of the NY politicians and Trump based on what they factually knew and the public decisions, comments and actions.mace1229 said:
That makes more sense than the comment I responded to, of "he's not my governor, so why should I care" attitude.HughFreakingDillon said:
because those governors made decisions based on false intel. false intel that came directly from the president of the united states. the buck stops at the top. that's how it works.mace1229 said:
Why can't we be critical of more than 1 person at a time? Reminds me back in March and April, anytime someone brought up China you were accused of giving Trump a free pass. No. You are allowed to be critical of more than 1 person. And I think the leaders of the states and cities that were the hardest hit, and were doing the same things, down playing it, encouraging use of the subway and parades, not protecting the elderly in nursing homes, etc just days before the shutdown deserve to be critiqued. None of that means Trump did everything right, but there's more people to blame than just 1 person.mrussel1 said:
Put DeBlasio on the ballot here in Virginia and I'll vote against him. Until then, we're discussing the president; the man who had access to all of the intelligence who KNEW how dangerous it was and yet lied to us. The man who MOCKED wearing masks, who instigated people in states to protest closures when all along he knew it was deadly, terribly contagious and dangerous to people of all ages. He lied to us. Here's the thing. 60% of the country already knew he lied to us, but now we have audio proof.mace1229 said:
I agree with some of your points. I'm not a fan of how Trump responded to this, but I think a lot of others have been given a free pass. I don't know why more aren't fired up over Cuomo and DeBlasio, I think they did a worse job. Others as well, but they've gotten a free pass it seems like. Trump is seen without a mask at a press conference and its headline news, DeBlasio is seen without a mask out in public during stay at home orders and no one cares. I get he isn't the president, but he should be responsible for the city he's mayor of, you know, the worse city in the country in terms of covid.JB16057 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
so instead of discussing the substance, you attack the author's intentions.JB16057 said:Halifax2TheMax said:Team Trump Treason and his administration are responsible for most, if not all, of the misinformation out there as well as states and municipalities not doing what is necessary to understand, track, and deal with the spread.WHO has been wrong multiple times and they have absolutely nothing to do with Team Trump Treason as you put it. How about China telling the world that there is nothing to worry about? Had China been up front about this from the get go, the world could be in a better situation right now. I'm sure there are countless examples around the world. China is interfering with our election yet the only concerns I see are about Russia. Did Russia cause a world wide pandemic?In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic. Many leaders are guilty of this from both sides of the aisle. Governors could have shut down states in January or February but they didn't. I'm in Washington state. We had the first confirmed cases in the United States. Our Democratic Governor took this as serious as the president did. He could've shut down the state but he waited until mid-March when we were in a full blown pandemic. Our numbers are higher than ever. Why isn't he doing more to stop COVID? I could ask these questions all day long.The reason why I chimed in was because of the Bob Woodward article. These interviews were from January and February. If Trump's COVID response was so bad 8 months ago, why did Bob wait until now to talk about it? If Bob Woodward's intentions were pure, he would've released this information the day he had it. Instead he has to write a book to make money. Don't you think the timing is questionable? A true journalist wouldn't be concerned about writing a book and releasing this information 8 months too late!I did address it but you decided to look the other way, "In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic." Trump is an idiot but had Bob Woodward come out months ago, would that have saved lives? Would there have been more push back against Trump to do more? Yes, I do question his intentions just as you question Trump's.How many other countries that were successful in their initial response are now having an uptick in cases? Are you blaming them the same as you blame Trump? This virus is not something a world leader can just stop.
Even if you don't care about the tens of thousands dead in New York, the spread in NY impacted the entire country, he doesn't have to be your governor or mayor to care.
But that only takes some of the responsibility away, there were still bad decisions based ont he information they did have.
0 -
Again, one was made in good faith with all of the available information. Trump deliberately played down the virus. Compared it to the flu. Said the cases would be gone soon. Incited residents to RESIST and continually undermined public health officials. All while KNOWING that none of it was true. The difference between the gov and the president is a mile wide. You really cannot see the difference? These feel the same to you?mace1229 said:
The topic is the coronavirus. Again, seems like we aren't allowed to be critical of anyone but Trump when it comes to covid. And both Cuomo and DeBlasio both made bad decisions from the info they had. Both have been spotted in public without a mask, I think the nursing home law banning nursing homes the right to refuse positive patients while he's on TV saying I don't have the right to kill his mother so I need to stay home was a pretty bad decision.mrussel1 said:
When I make arguments, I keep them laser focused, and dont' get distracted by whataboutism. The issue at hand is Trump's handling of the virus. But at least the NY politicians made decisions in good faith, based on what they knew at the time. Trump knew the virus was dangerous but deliberately downplayed it. He didn't encourage precautions, he didn't increase PPE production until APRIL! There's a huge difference between teh performance of the NY politicians and Trump based on what they factually knew and the public decisions, comments and actions.mace1229 said:
That makes more sense than the comment I responded to, of "he's not my governor, so why should I care" attitude.HughFreakingDillon said:
because those governors made decisions based on false intel. false intel that came directly from the president of the united states. the buck stops at the top. that's how it works.mace1229 said:
Why can't we be critical of more than 1 person at a time? Reminds me back in March and April, anytime someone brought up China you were accused of giving Trump a free pass. No. You are allowed to be critical of more than 1 person. And I think the leaders of the states and cities that were the hardest hit, and were doing the same things, down playing it, encouraging use of the subway and parades, not protecting the elderly in nursing homes, etc just days before the shutdown deserve to be critiqued. None of that means Trump did everything right, but there's more people to blame than just 1 person.mrussel1 said:
Put DeBlasio on the ballot here in Virginia and I'll vote against him. Until then, we're discussing the president; the man who had access to all of the intelligence who KNEW how dangerous it was and yet lied to us. The man who MOCKED wearing masks, who instigated people in states to protest closures when all along he knew it was deadly, terribly contagious and dangerous to people of all ages. He lied to us. Here's the thing. 60% of the country already knew he lied to us, but now we have audio proof.mace1229 said:
I agree with some of your points. I'm not a fan of how Trump responded to this, but I think a lot of others have been given a free pass. I don't know why more aren't fired up over Cuomo and DeBlasio, I think they did a worse job. Others as well, but they've gotten a free pass it seems like. Trump is seen without a mask at a press conference and its headline news, DeBlasio is seen without a mask out in public during stay at home orders and no one cares. I get he isn't the president, but he should be responsible for the city he's mayor of, you know, the worse city in the country in terms of covid.JB16057 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
so instead of discussing the substance, you attack the author's intentions.JB16057 said:Halifax2TheMax said:Team Trump Treason and his administration are responsible for most, if not all, of the misinformation out there as well as states and municipalities not doing what is necessary to understand, track, and deal with the spread.WHO has been wrong multiple times and they have absolutely nothing to do with Team Trump Treason as you put it. How about China telling the world that there is nothing to worry about? Had China been up front about this from the get go, the world could be in a better situation right now. I'm sure there are countless examples around the world. China is interfering with our election yet the only concerns I see are about Russia. Did Russia cause a world wide pandemic?In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic. Many leaders are guilty of this from both sides of the aisle. Governors could have shut down states in January or February but they didn't. I'm in Washington state. We had the first confirmed cases in the United States. Our Democratic Governor took this as serious as the president did. He could've shut down the state but he waited until mid-March when we were in a full blown pandemic. Our numbers are higher than ever. Why isn't he doing more to stop COVID? I could ask these questions all day long.The reason why I chimed in was because of the Bob Woodward article. These interviews were from January and February. If Trump's COVID response was so bad 8 months ago, why did Bob wait until now to talk about it? If Bob Woodward's intentions were pure, he would've released this information the day he had it. Instead he has to write a book to make money. Don't you think the timing is questionable? A true journalist wouldn't be concerned about writing a book and releasing this information 8 months too late!I did address it but you decided to look the other way, "In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic." Trump is an idiot but had Bob Woodward come out months ago, would that have saved lives? Would there have been more push back against Trump to do more? Yes, I do question his intentions just as you question Trump's.How many other countries that were successful in their initial response are now having an uptick in cases? Are you blaming them the same as you blame Trump? This virus is not something a world leader can just stop.
Even if you don't care about the tens of thousands dead in New York, the spread in NY impacted the entire country, he doesn't have to be your governor or mayor to care.
But that only takes some of the responsibility away, there were still bad decisions based ont he information they did have.0 -
Never said it was the same. Yes, there's a difference.mrussel1 said:
Again, one was made in good faith with all of the available information. Trump deliberately played down the virus. Compared it to the flu. Said the cases would be gone soon. Incited residents to RESIST and continually undermined public health officials. All while KNOWING that none of it was true. The difference between the gov and the president is a mile wide. You really cannot see the difference? These feel the same to you?mace1229 said:
The topic is the coronavirus. Again, seems like we aren't allowed to be critical of anyone but Trump when it comes to covid. And both Cuomo and DeBlasio both made bad decisions from the info they had. Both have been spotted in public without a mask, I think the nursing home law banning nursing homes the right to refuse positive patients while he's on TV saying I don't have the right to kill his mother so I need to stay home was a pretty bad decision.mrussel1 said:
When I make arguments, I keep them laser focused, and dont' get distracted by whataboutism. The issue at hand is Trump's handling of the virus. But at least the NY politicians made decisions in good faith, based on what they knew at the time. Trump knew the virus was dangerous but deliberately downplayed it. He didn't encourage precautions, he didn't increase PPE production until APRIL! There's a huge difference between teh performance of the NY politicians and Trump based on what they factually knew and the public decisions, comments and actions.mace1229 said:
That makes more sense than the comment I responded to, of "he's not my governor, so why should I care" attitude.HughFreakingDillon said:
because those governors made decisions based on false intel. false intel that came directly from the president of the united states. the buck stops at the top. that's how it works.mace1229 said:
Why can't we be critical of more than 1 person at a time? Reminds me back in March and April, anytime someone brought up China you were accused of giving Trump a free pass. No. You are allowed to be critical of more than 1 person. And I think the leaders of the states and cities that were the hardest hit, and were doing the same things, down playing it, encouraging use of the subway and parades, not protecting the elderly in nursing homes, etc just days before the shutdown deserve to be critiqued. None of that means Trump did everything right, but there's more people to blame than just 1 person.mrussel1 said:
Put DeBlasio on the ballot here in Virginia and I'll vote against him. Until then, we're discussing the president; the man who had access to all of the intelligence who KNEW how dangerous it was and yet lied to us. The man who MOCKED wearing masks, who instigated people in states to protest closures when all along he knew it was deadly, terribly contagious and dangerous to people of all ages. He lied to us. Here's the thing. 60% of the country already knew he lied to us, but now we have audio proof.mace1229 said:
I agree with some of your points. I'm not a fan of how Trump responded to this, but I think a lot of others have been given a free pass. I don't know why more aren't fired up over Cuomo and DeBlasio, I think they did a worse job. Others as well, but they've gotten a free pass it seems like. Trump is seen without a mask at a press conference and its headline news, DeBlasio is seen without a mask out in public during stay at home orders and no one cares. I get he isn't the president, but he should be responsible for the city he's mayor of, you know, the worse city in the country in terms of covid.JB16057 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
so instead of discussing the substance, you attack the author's intentions.JB16057 said:Halifax2TheMax said:Team Trump Treason and his administration are responsible for most, if not all, of the misinformation out there as well as states and municipalities not doing what is necessary to understand, track, and deal with the spread.WHO has been wrong multiple times and they have absolutely nothing to do with Team Trump Treason as you put it. How about China telling the world that there is nothing to worry about? Had China been up front about this from the get go, the world could be in a better situation right now. I'm sure there are countless examples around the world. China is interfering with our election yet the only concerns I see are about Russia. Did Russia cause a world wide pandemic?In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic. Many leaders are guilty of this from both sides of the aisle. Governors could have shut down states in January or February but they didn't. I'm in Washington state. We had the first confirmed cases in the United States. Our Democratic Governor took this as serious as the president did. He could've shut down the state but he waited until mid-March when we were in a full blown pandemic. Our numbers are higher than ever. Why isn't he doing more to stop COVID? I could ask these questions all day long.The reason why I chimed in was because of the Bob Woodward article. These interviews were from January and February. If Trump's COVID response was so bad 8 months ago, why did Bob wait until now to talk about it? If Bob Woodward's intentions were pure, he would've released this information the day he had it. Instead he has to write a book to make money. Don't you think the timing is questionable? A true journalist wouldn't be concerned about writing a book and releasing this information 8 months too late!I did address it but you decided to look the other way, "In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic." Trump is an idiot but had Bob Woodward come out months ago, would that have saved lives? Would there have been more push back against Trump to do more? Yes, I do question his intentions just as you question Trump's.How many other countries that were successful in their initial response are now having an uptick in cases? Are you blaming them the same as you blame Trump? This virus is not something a world leader can just stop.
Even if you don't care about the tens of thousands dead in New York, the spread in NY impacted the entire country, he doesn't have to be your governor or mayor to care.
But that only takes some of the responsibility away, there were still bad decisions based ont he information they did have.
I also think others did things wrong, and believe it is not inappropriate to point out blunders that others made, not just Trump's. Cuomo's nursing home policy was a big mistake in my opinion, and he knew 100% how vulnerable that group was.
0 -
Okay, great. So I'm not voting for him or the lying sack of crap in teh WH. Pretty easy.mace1229 said:
Never said it was the same. Yes, there's a difference.mrussel1 said:
Again, one was made in good faith with all of the available information. Trump deliberately played down the virus. Compared it to the flu. Said the cases would be gone soon. Incited residents to RESIST and continually undermined public health officials. All while KNOWING that none of it was true. The difference between the gov and the president is a mile wide. You really cannot see the difference? These feel the same to you?mace1229 said:
The topic is the coronavirus. Again, seems like we aren't allowed to be critical of anyone but Trump when it comes to covid. And both Cuomo and DeBlasio both made bad decisions from the info they had. Both have been spotted in public without a mask, I think the nursing home law banning nursing homes the right to refuse positive patients while he's on TV saying I don't have the right to kill his mother so I need to stay home was a pretty bad decision.mrussel1 said:
When I make arguments, I keep them laser focused, and dont' get distracted by whataboutism. The issue at hand is Trump's handling of the virus. But at least the NY politicians made decisions in good faith, based on what they knew at the time. Trump knew the virus was dangerous but deliberately downplayed it. He didn't encourage precautions, he didn't increase PPE production until APRIL! There's a huge difference between teh performance of the NY politicians and Trump based on what they factually knew and the public decisions, comments and actions.mace1229 said:
That makes more sense than the comment I responded to, of "he's not my governor, so why should I care" attitude.HughFreakingDillon said:
because those governors made decisions based on false intel. false intel that came directly from the president of the united states. the buck stops at the top. that's how it works.mace1229 said:
Why can't we be critical of more than 1 person at a time? Reminds me back in March and April, anytime someone brought up China you were accused of giving Trump a free pass. No. You are allowed to be critical of more than 1 person. And I think the leaders of the states and cities that were the hardest hit, and were doing the same things, down playing it, encouraging use of the subway and parades, not protecting the elderly in nursing homes, etc just days before the shutdown deserve to be critiqued. None of that means Trump did everything right, but there's more people to blame than just 1 person.mrussel1 said:
Put DeBlasio on the ballot here in Virginia and I'll vote against him. Until then, we're discussing the president; the man who had access to all of the intelligence who KNEW how dangerous it was and yet lied to us. The man who MOCKED wearing masks, who instigated people in states to protest closures when all along he knew it was deadly, terribly contagious and dangerous to people of all ages. He lied to us. Here's the thing. 60% of the country already knew he lied to us, but now we have audio proof.mace1229 said:
I agree with some of your points. I'm not a fan of how Trump responded to this, but I think a lot of others have been given a free pass. I don't know why more aren't fired up over Cuomo and DeBlasio, I think they did a worse job. Others as well, but they've gotten a free pass it seems like. Trump is seen without a mask at a press conference and its headline news, DeBlasio is seen without a mask out in public during stay at home orders and no one cares. I get he isn't the president, but he should be responsible for the city he's mayor of, you know, the worse city in the country in terms of covid.JB16057 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
so instead of discussing the substance, you attack the author's intentions.JB16057 said:Halifax2TheMax said:Team Trump Treason and his administration are responsible for most, if not all, of the misinformation out there as well as states and municipalities not doing what is necessary to understand, track, and deal with the spread.WHO has been wrong multiple times and they have absolutely nothing to do with Team Trump Treason as you put it. How about China telling the world that there is nothing to worry about? Had China been up front about this from the get go, the world could be in a better situation right now. I'm sure there are countless examples around the world. China is interfering with our election yet the only concerns I see are about Russia. Did Russia cause a world wide pandemic?In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic. Many leaders are guilty of this from both sides of the aisle. Governors could have shut down states in January or February but they didn't. I'm in Washington state. We had the first confirmed cases in the United States. Our Democratic Governor took this as serious as the president did. He could've shut down the state but he waited until mid-March when we were in a full blown pandemic. Our numbers are higher than ever. Why isn't he doing more to stop COVID? I could ask these questions all day long.The reason why I chimed in was because of the Bob Woodward article. These interviews were from January and February. If Trump's COVID response was so bad 8 months ago, why did Bob wait until now to talk about it? If Bob Woodward's intentions were pure, he would've released this information the day he had it. Instead he has to write a book to make money. Don't you think the timing is questionable? A true journalist wouldn't be concerned about writing a book and releasing this information 8 months too late!I did address it but you decided to look the other way, "In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic." Trump is an idiot but had Bob Woodward come out months ago, would that have saved lives? Would there have been more push back against Trump to do more? Yes, I do question his intentions just as you question Trump's.How many other countries that were successful in their initial response are now having an uptick in cases? Are you blaming them the same as you blame Trump? This virus is not something a world leader can just stop.
Even if you don't care about the tens of thousands dead in New York, the spread in NY impacted the entire country, he doesn't have to be your governor or mayor to care.
But that only takes some of the responsibility away, there were still bad decisions based ont he information they did have.
I also think others did things wrong, and believe it is not inappropriate to point out blunders that others made, not just Trump's. Cuomo's nursing home policy was a big mistake in my opinion, and he knew 100% how vulnerable that group was.0 -
It seems like semantics to argue over this topic because of course Cuomo made mistakes, almost everyone did. I have no vested interest in Cuome or defending him so yes, he failed to handle the initial stages of the outbreak appropriately, but he also based it off guidance he was receiving. In any of these situations, there's always going to be that handful of people who were recommending the not so popular approach that turned out to be the one everyone should have followed. What I don't think you are going to find is audio, reports or meetings of these individuals mentioning how serious and deadly they think the virus was in private based on intelligence and then acting like everything is fine.mace1229 said:
Never said it was the same. Yes, there's a difference.mrussel1 said:
Again, one was made in good faith with all of the available information. Trump deliberately played down the virus. Compared it to the flu. Said the cases would be gone soon. Incited residents to RESIST and continually undermined public health officials. All while KNOWING that none of it was true. The difference between the gov and the president is a mile wide. You really cannot see the difference? These feel the same to you?mace1229 said:
The topic is the coronavirus. Again, seems like we aren't allowed to be critical of anyone but Trump when it comes to covid. And both Cuomo and DeBlasio both made bad decisions from the info they had. Both have been spotted in public without a mask, I think the nursing home law banning nursing homes the right to refuse positive patients while he's on TV saying I don't have the right to kill his mother so I need to stay home was a pretty bad decision.mrussel1 said:
When I make arguments, I keep them laser focused, and dont' get distracted by whataboutism. The issue at hand is Trump's handling of the virus. But at least the NY politicians made decisions in good faith, based on what they knew at the time. Trump knew the virus was dangerous but deliberately downplayed it. He didn't encourage precautions, he didn't increase PPE production until APRIL! There's a huge difference between teh performance of the NY politicians and Trump based on what they factually knew and the public decisions, comments and actions.mace1229 said:
That makes more sense than the comment I responded to, of "he's not my governor, so why should I care" attitude.HughFreakingDillon said:
because those governors made decisions based on false intel. false intel that came directly from the president of the united states. the buck stops at the top. that's how it works.mace1229 said:
Why can't we be critical of more than 1 person at a time? Reminds me back in March and April, anytime someone brought up China you were accused of giving Trump a free pass. No. You are allowed to be critical of more than 1 person. And I think the leaders of the states and cities that were the hardest hit, and were doing the same things, down playing it, encouraging use of the subway and parades, not protecting the elderly in nursing homes, etc just days before the shutdown deserve to be critiqued. None of that means Trump did everything right, but there's more people to blame than just 1 person.mrussel1 said:
Put DeBlasio on the ballot here in Virginia and I'll vote against him. Until then, we're discussing the president; the man who had access to all of the intelligence who KNEW how dangerous it was and yet lied to us. The man who MOCKED wearing masks, who instigated people in states to protest closures when all along he knew it was deadly, terribly contagious and dangerous to people of all ages. He lied to us. Here's the thing. 60% of the country already knew he lied to us, but now we have audio proof.mace1229 said:
I agree with some of your points. I'm not a fan of how Trump responded to this, but I think a lot of others have been given a free pass. I don't know why more aren't fired up over Cuomo and DeBlasio, I think they did a worse job. Others as well, but they've gotten a free pass it seems like. Trump is seen without a mask at a press conference and its headline news, DeBlasio is seen without a mask out in public during stay at home orders and no one cares. I get he isn't the president, but he should be responsible for the city he's mayor of, you know, the worse city in the country in terms of covid.JB16057 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
so instead of discussing the substance, you attack the author's intentions.JB16057 said:Halifax2TheMax said:Team Trump Treason and his administration are responsible for most, if not all, of the misinformation out there as well as states and municipalities not doing what is necessary to understand, track, and deal with the spread.WHO has been wrong multiple times and they have absolutely nothing to do with Team Trump Treason as you put it. How about China telling the world that there is nothing to worry about? Had China been up front about this from the get go, the world could be in a better situation right now. I'm sure there are countless examples around the world. China is interfering with our election yet the only concerns I see are about Russia. Did Russia cause a world wide pandemic?In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic. Many leaders are guilty of this from both sides of the aisle. Governors could have shut down states in January or February but they didn't. I'm in Washington state. We had the first confirmed cases in the United States. Our Democratic Governor took this as serious as the president did. He could've shut down the state but he waited until mid-March when we were in a full blown pandemic. Our numbers are higher than ever. Why isn't he doing more to stop COVID? I could ask these questions all day long.The reason why I chimed in was because of the Bob Woodward article. These interviews were from January and February. If Trump's COVID response was so bad 8 months ago, why did Bob wait until now to talk about it? If Bob Woodward's intentions were pure, he would've released this information the day he had it. Instead he has to write a book to make money. Don't you think the timing is questionable? A true journalist wouldn't be concerned about writing a book and releasing this information 8 months too late!I did address it but you decided to look the other way, "In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic." Trump is an idiot but had Bob Woodward come out months ago, would that have saved lives? Would there have been more push back against Trump to do more? Yes, I do question his intentions just as you question Trump's.How many other countries that were successful in their initial response are now having an uptick in cases? Are you blaming them the same as you blame Trump? This virus is not something a world leader can just stop.
Even if you don't care about the tens of thousands dead in New York, the spread in NY impacted the entire country, he doesn't have to be your governor or mayor to care.
But that only takes some of the responsibility away, there were still bad decisions based ont he information they did have.
I also think others did things wrong, and believe it is not inappropriate to point out blunders that others made, not just Trump's. Cuomo's nursing home policy was a big mistake in my opinion, and he knew 100% how vulnerable that group was.
Anyway, VOX actually covered the issue with NY pretty well. I don't normally read them anymore, but this addressed the negatives and what they have done to become a leader since the early failings. I wish the WH would do the same.
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/21401242/andrew-cuomo-coronavirus-covid-pandemic-new-york
It's a hopeless situation...0 -
tbergs said:
It seems like semantics to argue over this topic because of course Cuomo made mistakes, almost everyone did. I have no vested interest in Cuome or defending him so yes, he failed to handle the initial stages of the outbreak appropriately, but he also based it off guidance he was receiving. In any of these situations, there's always going to be that handful of people who were recommending the not so popular approach that turned out to be the one everyone should have followed. What I don't think you are going to find is audio, reports or meetings of these individuals mentioning how serious and deadly they think the virus was in private based on intelligence and then acting like everything is fine.mace1229 said:
Never said it was the same. Yes, there's a difference.mrussel1 said:
Again, one was made in good faith with all of the available information. Trump deliberately played down the virus. Compared it to the flu. Said the cases would be gone soon. Incited residents to RESIST and continually undermined public health officials. All while KNOWING that none of it was true. The difference between the gov and the president is a mile wide. You really cannot see the difference? These feel the same to you?mace1229 said:
The topic is the coronavirus. Again, seems like we aren't allowed to be critical of anyone but Trump when it comes to covid. And both Cuomo and DeBlasio both made bad decisions from the info they had. Both have been spotted in public without a mask, I think the nursing home law banning nursing homes the right to refuse positive patients while he's on TV saying I don't have the right to kill his mother so I need to stay home was a pretty bad decision.mrussel1 said:
When I make arguments, I keep them laser focused, and dont' get distracted by whataboutism. The issue at hand is Trump's handling of the virus. But at least the NY politicians made decisions in good faith, based on what they knew at the time. Trump knew the virus was dangerous but deliberately downplayed it. He didn't encourage precautions, he didn't increase PPE production until APRIL! There's a huge difference between teh performance of the NY politicians and Trump based on what they factually knew and the public decisions, comments and actions.mace1229 said:
That makes more sense than the comment I responded to, of "he's not my governor, so why should I care" attitude.HughFreakingDillon said:
because those governors made decisions based on false intel. false intel that came directly from the president of the united states. the buck stops at the top. that's how it works.mace1229 said:
Why can't we be critical of more than 1 person at a time? Reminds me back in March and April, anytime someone brought up China you were accused of giving Trump a free pass. No. You are allowed to be critical of more than 1 person. And I think the leaders of the states and cities that were the hardest hit, and were doing the same things, down playing it, encouraging use of the subway and parades, not protecting the elderly in nursing homes, etc just days before the shutdown deserve to be critiqued. None of that means Trump did everything right, but there's more people to blame than just 1 person.mrussel1 said:
Put DeBlasio on the ballot here in Virginia and I'll vote against him. Until then, we're discussing the president; the man who had access to all of the intelligence who KNEW how dangerous it was and yet lied to us. The man who MOCKED wearing masks, who instigated people in states to protest closures when all along he knew it was deadly, terribly contagious and dangerous to people of all ages. He lied to us. Here's the thing. 60% of the country already knew he lied to us, but now we have audio proof.mace1229 said:
I agree with some of your points. I'm not a fan of how Trump responded to this, but I think a lot of others have been given a free pass. I don't know why more aren't fired up over Cuomo and DeBlasio, I think they did a worse job. Others as well, but they've gotten a free pass it seems like. Trump is seen without a mask at a press conference and its headline news, DeBlasio is seen without a mask out in public during stay at home orders and no one cares. I get he isn't the president, but he should be responsible for the city he's mayor of, you know, the worse city in the country in terms of covid.JB16057 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
so instead of discussing the substance, you attack the author's intentions.JB16057 said:Halifax2TheMax said:Team Trump Treason and his administration are responsible for most, if not all, of the misinformation out there as well as states and municipalities not doing what is necessary to understand, track, and deal with the spread.WHO has been wrong multiple times and they have absolutely nothing to do with Team Trump Treason as you put it. How about China telling the world that there is nothing to worry about? Had China been up front about this from the get go, the world could be in a better situation right now. I'm sure there are countless examples around the world. China is interfering with our election yet the only concerns I see are about Russia. Did Russia cause a world wide pandemic?In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic. Many leaders are guilty of this from both sides of the aisle. Governors could have shut down states in January or February but they didn't. I'm in Washington state. We had the first confirmed cases in the United States. Our Democratic Governor took this as serious as the president did. He could've shut down the state but he waited until mid-March when we were in a full blown pandemic. Our numbers are higher than ever. Why isn't he doing more to stop COVID? I could ask these questions all day long.The reason why I chimed in was because of the Bob Woodward article. These interviews were from January and February. If Trump's COVID response was so bad 8 months ago, why did Bob wait until now to talk about it? If Bob Woodward's intentions were pure, he would've released this information the day he had it. Instead he has to write a book to make money. Don't you think the timing is questionable? A true journalist wouldn't be concerned about writing a book and releasing this information 8 months too late!I did address it but you decided to look the other way, "In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic." Trump is an idiot but had Bob Woodward come out months ago, would that have saved lives? Would there have been more push back against Trump to do more? Yes, I do question his intentions just as you question Trump's.How many other countries that were successful in their initial response are now having an uptick in cases? Are you blaming them the same as you blame Trump? This virus is not something a world leader can just stop.
Even if you don't care about the tens of thousands dead in New York, the spread in NY impacted the entire country, he doesn't have to be your governor or mayor to care.
But that only takes some of the responsibility away, there were still bad decisions based ont he information they did have.
I also think others did things wrong, and believe it is not inappropriate to point out blunders that others made, not just Trump's. Cuomo's nursing home policy was a big mistake in my opinion, and he knew 100% how vulnerable that group was.
Anyway, VOX actually covered the issue with NY pretty well. I don't normally read them anymore, but this addressed the negatives and what they have done to become a leader since the early failings. I wish the WH would do the same.
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/21401242/andrew-cuomo-coronavirus-covid-pandemic-new-yorkBoom. This is new / unprecedented for the most part. Mis-steps? Yeah. A lot of politicians, officials, employers, etc. were slow out the gate. And the experts they were relying on were all over the map. Trump? He approaches it with one thing in mind; his re-election. I suppose there are others with ulterior motives (well, say, Kelly Loeffler, who got rich(er) off of it). Leadership is not the absence of mistakes; it's the ability to admit to them and do better. People see strength in believing on Wednesday what you believed on Monday, regardless of what happened on Tuesday. I don't get it."Didn't want to create a panic" from the guy that used a sharpie to try to convince us a hurricane was going to hit..." To bad it didn't, it might have stopped the caravan.
1995 Milwaukee 1998 Alpine, Alpine 2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston 2004 Boston, Boston 2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty) 2011 Alpine, Alpine
2013 Wrigley 2014 St. Paul 2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley 2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley 2021 Asbury Park 2022 St Louis 2023 Austin, Austin
2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley0 -
And the whole "wearing a mask makes you look weak" argument that he put on for so long...pathetic.OnWis97 said:tbergs said:
It seems like semantics to argue over this topic because of course Cuomo made mistakes, almost everyone did. I have no vested interest in Cuome or defending him so yes, he failed to handle the initial stages of the outbreak appropriately, but he also based it off guidance he was receiving. In any of these situations, there's always going to be that handful of people who were recommending the not so popular approach that turned out to be the one everyone should have followed. What I don't think you are going to find is audio, reports or meetings of these individuals mentioning how serious and deadly they think the virus was in private based on intelligence and then acting like everything is fine.mace1229 said:
Never said it was the same. Yes, there's a difference.mrussel1 said:
Again, one was made in good faith with all of the available information. Trump deliberately played down the virus. Compared it to the flu. Said the cases would be gone soon. Incited residents to RESIST and continually undermined public health officials. All while KNOWING that none of it was true. The difference between the gov and the president is a mile wide. You really cannot see the difference? These feel the same to you?mace1229 said:
The topic is the coronavirus. Again, seems like we aren't allowed to be critical of anyone but Trump when it comes to covid. And both Cuomo and DeBlasio both made bad decisions from the info they had. Both have been spotted in public without a mask, I think the nursing home law banning nursing homes the right to refuse positive patients while he's on TV saying I don't have the right to kill his mother so I need to stay home was a pretty bad decision.mrussel1 said:
When I make arguments, I keep them laser focused, and dont' get distracted by whataboutism. The issue at hand is Trump's handling of the virus. But at least the NY politicians made decisions in good faith, based on what they knew at the time. Trump knew the virus was dangerous but deliberately downplayed it. He didn't encourage precautions, he didn't increase PPE production until APRIL! There's a huge difference between teh performance of the NY politicians and Trump based on what they factually knew and the public decisions, comments and actions.mace1229 said:
That makes more sense than the comment I responded to, of "he's not my governor, so why should I care" attitude.HughFreakingDillon said:
because those governors made decisions based on false intel. false intel that came directly from the president of the united states. the buck stops at the top. that's how it works.mace1229 said:
Why can't we be critical of more than 1 person at a time? Reminds me back in March and April, anytime someone brought up China you were accused of giving Trump a free pass. No. You are allowed to be critical of more than 1 person. And I think the leaders of the states and cities that were the hardest hit, and were doing the same things, down playing it, encouraging use of the subway and parades, not protecting the elderly in nursing homes, etc just days before the shutdown deserve to be critiqued. None of that means Trump did everything right, but there's more people to blame than just 1 person.mrussel1 said:
Put DeBlasio on the ballot here in Virginia and I'll vote against him. Until then, we're discussing the president; the man who had access to all of the intelligence who KNEW how dangerous it was and yet lied to us. The man who MOCKED wearing masks, who instigated people in states to protest closures when all along he knew it was deadly, terribly contagious and dangerous to people of all ages. He lied to us. Here's the thing. 60% of the country already knew he lied to us, but now we have audio proof.mace1229 said:
I agree with some of your points. I'm not a fan of how Trump responded to this, but I think a lot of others have been given a free pass. I don't know why more aren't fired up over Cuomo and DeBlasio, I think they did a worse job. Others as well, but they've gotten a free pass it seems like. Trump is seen without a mask at a press conference and its headline news, DeBlasio is seen without a mask out in public during stay at home orders and no one cares. I get he isn't the president, but he should be responsible for the city he's mayor of, you know, the worse city in the country in terms of covid.JB16057 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
so instead of discussing the substance, you attack the author's intentions.JB16057 said:Halifax2TheMax said:Team Trump Treason and his administration are responsible for most, if not all, of the misinformation out there as well as states and municipalities not doing what is necessary to understand, track, and deal with the spread.WHO has been wrong multiple times and they have absolutely nothing to do with Team Trump Treason as you put it. How about China telling the world that there is nothing to worry about? Had China been up front about this from the get go, the world could be in a better situation right now. I'm sure there are countless examples around the world. China is interfering with our election yet the only concerns I see are about Russia. Did Russia cause a world wide pandemic?In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic. Many leaders are guilty of this from both sides of the aisle. Governors could have shut down states in January or February but they didn't. I'm in Washington state. We had the first confirmed cases in the United States. Our Democratic Governor took this as serious as the president did. He could've shut down the state but he waited until mid-March when we were in a full blown pandemic. Our numbers are higher than ever. Why isn't he doing more to stop COVID? I could ask these questions all day long.The reason why I chimed in was because of the Bob Woodward article. These interviews were from January and February. If Trump's COVID response was so bad 8 months ago, why did Bob wait until now to talk about it? If Bob Woodward's intentions were pure, he would've released this information the day he had it. Instead he has to write a book to make money. Don't you think the timing is questionable? A true journalist wouldn't be concerned about writing a book and releasing this information 8 months too late!I did address it but you decided to look the other way, "In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic." Trump is an idiot but had Bob Woodward come out months ago, would that have saved lives? Would there have been more push back against Trump to do more? Yes, I do question his intentions just as you question Trump's.How many other countries that were successful in their initial response are now having an uptick in cases? Are you blaming them the same as you blame Trump? This virus is not something a world leader can just stop.
Even if you don't care about the tens of thousands dead in New York, the spread in NY impacted the entire country, he doesn't have to be your governor or mayor to care.
But that only takes some of the responsibility away, there were still bad decisions based ont he information they did have.
I also think others did things wrong, and believe it is not inappropriate to point out blunders that others made, not just Trump's. Cuomo's nursing home policy was a big mistake in my opinion, and he knew 100% how vulnerable that group was.
Anyway, VOX actually covered the issue with NY pretty well. I don't normally read them anymore, but this addressed the negatives and what they have done to become a leader since the early failings. I wish the WH would do the same.
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/21401242/andrew-cuomo-coronavirus-covid-pandemic-new-yorkBoom. This is new / unprecedented for the most part. Mis-steps? Yeah. A lot of politicians, officials, employers, etc. were slow out the gate. And the experts they were relying on were all over the map. Trump? He approaches it with one thing in mind; his re-election. I suppose there are others with ulterior motives (well, say, Kelly Loeffler, who got rich(er) off of it). Leadership is not the absence of mistakes; it's the ability to admit to them and do better. People see strength in believing on Wednesday what you believed on Monday, regardless of what happened on Tuesday. I don't get it."Didn't want to create a panic" from the guy that used a sharpie to try to convince us a hurricane was going to hit..." To bad it didn't, it might have stopped the caravan.Remember the Thomas Nine !! (10/02/2018)
The Golden Age is 2 months away. And guess what….. you’re gonna love it! (teskeinc 11.19.24)
1998: Noblesville; 2003: Noblesville; 2009: EV Nashville, Chicago, Chicago
2010: St Louis, Columbus, Noblesville; 2011: EV Chicago, East Troy, East Troy
2013: London ON, Wrigley; 2014: Cincy, St Louis, Moline (NO CODE)
2016: Lexington, Wrigley #1; 2018: Wrigley, Wrigley, Boston, Boston
2020: Oakland, Oakland: 2021: EV Ohana, Ohana, Ohana, Ohana
2022: Oakland, Oakland, Nashville, Louisville; 2023: Chicago, Chicago, Noblesville
2024: Noblesville, Wrigley, Wrigley, Ohana, Ohana; 2025: Pitt1, Pitt20 -
Gern Blansten said:
And the whole "wearing a mask makes you look weak" argument that he put on for so long...pathetic.OnWis97 said:tbergs said:
It seems like semantics to argue over this topic because of course Cuomo made mistakes, almost everyone did. I have no vested interest in Cuome or defending him so yes, he failed to handle the initial stages of the outbreak appropriately, but he also based it off guidance he was receiving. In any of these situations, there's always going to be that handful of people who were recommending the not so popular approach that turned out to be the one everyone should have followed. What I don't think you are going to find is audio, reports or meetings of these individuals mentioning how serious and deadly they think the virus was in private based on intelligence and then acting like everything is fine.mace1229 said:
Never said it was the same. Yes, there's a difference.mrussel1 said:
Again, one was made in good faith with all of the available information. Trump deliberately played down the virus. Compared it to the flu. Said the cases would be gone soon. Incited residents to RESIST and continually undermined public health officials. All while KNOWING that none of it was true. The difference between the gov and the president is a mile wide. You really cannot see the difference? These feel the same to you?mace1229 said:
The topic is the coronavirus. Again, seems like we aren't allowed to be critical of anyone but Trump when it comes to covid. And both Cuomo and DeBlasio both made bad decisions from the info they had. Both have been spotted in public without a mask, I think the nursing home law banning nursing homes the right to refuse positive patients while he's on TV saying I don't have the right to kill his mother so I need to stay home was a pretty bad decision.mrussel1 said:
When I make arguments, I keep them laser focused, and dont' get distracted by whataboutism. The issue at hand is Trump's handling of the virus. But at least the NY politicians made decisions in good faith, based on what they knew at the time. Trump knew the virus was dangerous but deliberately downplayed it. He didn't encourage precautions, he didn't increase PPE production until APRIL! There's a huge difference between teh performance of the NY politicians and Trump based on what they factually knew and the public decisions, comments and actions.mace1229 said:
That makes more sense than the comment I responded to, of "he's not my governor, so why should I care" attitude.HughFreakingDillon said:
because those governors made decisions based on false intel. false intel that came directly from the president of the united states. the buck stops at the top. that's how it works.mace1229 said:
Why can't we be critical of more than 1 person at a time? Reminds me back in March and April, anytime someone brought up China you were accused of giving Trump a free pass. No. You are allowed to be critical of more than 1 person. And I think the leaders of the states and cities that were the hardest hit, and were doing the same things, down playing it, encouraging use of the subway and parades, not protecting the elderly in nursing homes, etc just days before the shutdown deserve to be critiqued. None of that means Trump did everything right, but there's more people to blame than just 1 person.mrussel1 said:
Put DeBlasio on the ballot here in Virginia and I'll vote against him. Until then, we're discussing the president; the man who had access to all of the intelligence who KNEW how dangerous it was and yet lied to us. The man who MOCKED wearing masks, who instigated people in states to protest closures when all along he knew it was deadly, terribly contagious and dangerous to people of all ages. He lied to us. Here's the thing. 60% of the country already knew he lied to us, but now we have audio proof.mace1229 said:
I agree with some of your points. I'm not a fan of how Trump responded to this, but I think a lot of others have been given a free pass. I don't know why more aren't fired up over Cuomo and DeBlasio, I think they did a worse job. Others as well, but they've gotten a free pass it seems like. Trump is seen without a mask at a press conference and its headline news, DeBlasio is seen without a mask out in public during stay at home orders and no one cares. I get he isn't the president, but he should be responsible for the city he's mayor of, you know, the worse city in the country in terms of covid.JB16057 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
so instead of discussing the substance, you attack the author's intentions.JB16057 said:Halifax2TheMax said:Team Trump Treason and his administration are responsible for most, if not all, of the misinformation out there as well as states and municipalities not doing what is necessary to understand, track, and deal with the spread.WHO has been wrong multiple times and they have absolutely nothing to do with Team Trump Treason as you put it. How about China telling the world that there is nothing to worry about? Had China been up front about this from the get go, the world could be in a better situation right now. I'm sure there are countless examples around the world. China is interfering with our election yet the only concerns I see are about Russia. Did Russia cause a world wide pandemic?In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic. Many leaders are guilty of this from both sides of the aisle. Governors could have shut down states in January or February but they didn't. I'm in Washington state. We had the first confirmed cases in the United States. Our Democratic Governor took this as serious as the president did. He could've shut down the state but he waited until mid-March when we were in a full blown pandemic. Our numbers are higher than ever. Why isn't he doing more to stop COVID? I could ask these questions all day long.The reason why I chimed in was because of the Bob Woodward article. These interviews were from January and February. If Trump's COVID response was so bad 8 months ago, why did Bob wait until now to talk about it? If Bob Woodward's intentions were pure, he would've released this information the day he had it. Instead he has to write a book to make money. Don't you think the timing is questionable? A true journalist wouldn't be concerned about writing a book and releasing this information 8 months too late!I did address it but you decided to look the other way, "In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic." Trump is an idiot but had Bob Woodward come out months ago, would that have saved lives? Would there have been more push back against Trump to do more? Yes, I do question his intentions just as you question Trump's.How many other countries that were successful in their initial response are now having an uptick in cases? Are you blaming them the same as you blame Trump? This virus is not something a world leader can just stop.
Even if you don't care about the tens of thousands dead in New York, the spread in NY impacted the entire country, he doesn't have to be your governor or mayor to care.
But that only takes some of the responsibility away, there were still bad decisions based ont he information they did have.
I also think others did things wrong, and believe it is not inappropriate to point out blunders that others made, not just Trump's. Cuomo's nursing home policy was a big mistake in my opinion, and he knew 100% how vulnerable that group was.
Anyway, VOX actually covered the issue with NY pretty well. I don't normally read them anymore, but this addressed the negatives and what they have done to become a leader since the early failings. I wish the WH would do the same.
https://www.vox.com/future-perfect/21401242/andrew-cuomo-coronavirus-covid-pandemic-new-yorkBoom. This is new / unprecedented for the most part. Mis-steps? Yeah. A lot of politicians, officials, employers, etc. were slow out the gate. And the experts they were relying on were all over the map. Trump? He approaches it with one thing in mind; his re-election. I suppose there are others with ulterior motives (well, say, Kelly Loeffler, who got rich(er) off of it). Leadership is not the absence of mistakes; it's the ability to admit to them and do better. People see strength in believing on Wednesday what you believed on Monday, regardless of what happened on Tuesday. I don't get it."Didn't want to create a panic" from the guy that used a sharpie to try to convince us a hurricane was going to hit..." To bad it didn't, it might have stopped the caravan.
0 -
JB16057 said:
You are more like Trump than you want to admit. You call groups of people idiots because you don't agree with them. You complain about divisiveness yet you are nothing but divisive spewing out false information. Trump didn't do 1 thing except downplay? He may not have done as much as you wanted him to but he did do more than downplay. You must be a psychic if you knew that the deaths would be cut in half if Trump banned closed the border to China. By the time China and WHO admitted there was an issue, COVID was world wide. Half is not an accurate number.HughFreakingDillon said:
no, it wouldn't have because woodward isn't the president with 30 million twitter followers and fox news won't give 2 seconds to this book for the rest that don't have the internets.JB16057 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
so instead of discussing the substance, you attack the author's intentions.JB16057 said:Halifax2TheMax said:Team Trump Treason and his administration are responsible for most, if not all, of the misinformation out there as well as states and municipalities not doing what is necessary to understand, track, and deal with the spread.WHO has been wrong multiple times and they have absolutely nothing to do with Team Trump Treason as you put it. How about China telling the world that there is nothing to worry about? Had China been up front about this from the get go, the world could be in a better situation right now. I'm sure there are countless examples around the world. China is interfering with our election yet the only concerns I see are about Russia. Did Russia cause a world wide pandemic?In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic. Many leaders are guilty of this from both sides of the aisle. Governors could have shut down states in January or February but they didn't. I'm in Washington state. We had the first confirmed cases in the United States. Our Democratic Governor took this as serious as the president did. He could've shut down the state but he waited until mid-March when we were in a full blown pandemic. Our numbers are higher than ever. Why isn't he doing more to stop COVID? I could ask these questions all day long.The reason why I chimed in was because of the Bob Woodward article. These interviews were from January and February. If Trump's COVID response was so bad 8 months ago, why did Bob wait until now to talk about it? If Bob Woodward's intentions were pure, he would've released this information the day he had it. Instead he has to write a book to make money. Don't you think the timing is questionable? A true journalist wouldn't be concerned about writing a book and releasing this information 8 months too late!I did address it but you decided to look the other way, "In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic." Trump is an idiot but had Bob Woodward come out months ago, would that have saved lives? Would there have been more push back against Trump to do more? Yes, I do question his intentions just as you question Trump's.How many other countries that were successful in their initial response are now having an uptick in cases? Are you blaming them the same as you blame Trump? This virus is not something a world leader can just stop.
every country that was successful is having an expected uptick in cases because that's what happens when you reopen the economy. you can't keep the economy closed forever. the difference is, trump didn't do one goddamn thing except downplay it. it's all about mitigating disaster on a medical front.
had trump actually closed the border to china as he keeps lying about doing, yes, the deaths would be cut in at least half, if not more.They are called idiots not because someone doesn’t agree with their opinions but because...
THEY REFUSE TO LISTEN TO SCIENCE AND ARE WILLING TO RISK THE LIVES OF OTHERS WITH THEIR IRRESPONSIBLE AND SELFISH ACTIONS
Science is not an opinion.
Science tells us social d and masks save lives. Columbia University said it’s 80% less. Stop trying to dissect an educated guess at what the precise percentage is and listen to the science. Social d and masks saves lives. Closing China did crap because the virus was already here by the time he shut it down and 40,000 got here from China afterwards.And trump knew social D was the way to save lives on FEBRUARY 7 and lied to the public about it. That’s why he gets the blame.
.0 -
jeffbr said:
He LIED. He didn't just downplay something. HE FUCKING LIED. He lied to you, he lied to me, he lied to every single person in this country. He called it a hoax and said it would go away. Your normalization of this behavior is exactly what has caused this country to be in the shitter right now. Quit being an apologist for abhorrent behavior. It isn't a good look.JB16057 said:
You are more like Trump than you want to admit. You call groups of people idiots because you don't agree with them. You complain about divisiveness yet you are nothing but divisive spewing out false information. Trump didn't do 1 thing except downplay? He may not have done as much as you wanted him to but he did do more than downplay. You must be a psychic if you knew that the deaths would be cut in half if Trump banned closed the border to China. By the time China and WHO admitted there was an issue, COVID was world wide. Half is not an accurate number.HughFreakingDillon said:
no, it wouldn't have because woodward isn't the president with 30 million twitter followers and fox news won't give 2 seconds to this book for the rest that don't have the internets.JB16057 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
so instead of discussing the substance, you attack the author's intentions.JB16057 said:Halifax2TheMax said:Team Trump Treason and his administration are responsible for most, if not all, of the misinformation out there as well as states and municipalities not doing what is necessary to understand, track, and deal with the spread.WHO has been wrong multiple times and they have absolutely nothing to do with Team Trump Treason as you put it. How about China telling the world that there is nothing to worry about? Had China been up front about this from the get go, the world could be in a better situation right now. I'm sure there are countless examples around the world. China is interfering with our election yet the only concerns I see are about Russia. Did Russia cause a world wide pandemic?In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic. Many leaders are guilty of this from both sides of the aisle. Governors could have shut down states in January or February but they didn't. I'm in Washington state. We had the first confirmed cases in the United States. Our Democratic Governor took this as serious as the president did. He could've shut down the state but he waited until mid-March when we were in a full blown pandemic. Our numbers are higher than ever. Why isn't he doing more to stop COVID? I could ask these questions all day long.The reason why I chimed in was because of the Bob Woodward article. These interviews were from January and February. If Trump's COVID response was so bad 8 months ago, why did Bob wait until now to talk about it? If Bob Woodward's intentions were pure, he would've released this information the day he had it. Instead he has to write a book to make money. Don't you think the timing is questionable? A true journalist wouldn't be concerned about writing a book and releasing this information 8 months too late!I did address it but you decided to look the other way, "In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic." Trump is an idiot but had Bob Woodward come out months ago, would that have saved lives? Would there have been more push back against Trump to do more? Yes, I do question his intentions just as you question Trump's.How many other countries that were successful in their initial response are now having an uptick in cases? Are you blaming them the same as you blame Trump? This virus is not something a world leader can just stop.
every country that was successful is having an expected uptick in cases because that's what happens when you reopen the economy. you can't keep the economy closed forever. the difference is, trump didn't do one goddamn thing except downplay it. it's all about mitigating disaster on a medical front.
had trump actually closed the border to china as he keeps lying about doing, yes, the deaths would be cut in at least half, if not more.Governor Inslee admitted that he waited to shut down Washington State until COVID was more wide spread because he knew that he had to do this for everyone to buy in to the shut down. You are from Washington State but I don't see having the same complaints against your own governor.0 -
Someone in this thread said they were ok with protesters risking their lives and putting others in danger for their cause. Does that make them an idiot too? Both types of people are spreading the virus, but one is labeled idiot.Lerxst1992 said:JB16057 said:
You are more like Trump than you want to admit. You call groups of people idiots because you don't agree with them. You complain about divisiveness yet you are nothing but divisive spewing out false information. Trump didn't do 1 thing except downplay? He may not have done as much as you wanted him to but he did do more than downplay. You must be a psychic if you knew that the deaths would be cut in half if Trump banned closed the border to China. By the time China and WHO admitted there was an issue, COVID was world wide. Half is not an accurate number.HughFreakingDillon said:
no, it wouldn't have because woodward isn't the president with 30 million twitter followers and fox news won't give 2 seconds to this book for the rest that don't have the internets.JB16057 said:HughFreakingDillon said:
so instead of discussing the substance, you attack the author's intentions.JB16057 said:Halifax2TheMax said:Team Trump Treason and his administration are responsible for most, if not all, of the misinformation out there as well as states and municipalities not doing what is necessary to understand, track, and deal with the spread.WHO has been wrong multiple times and they have absolutely nothing to do with Team Trump Treason as you put it. How about China telling the world that there is nothing to worry about? Had China been up front about this from the get go, the world could be in a better situation right now. I'm sure there are countless examples around the world. China is interfering with our election yet the only concerns I see are about Russia. Did Russia cause a world wide pandemic?In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic. Many leaders are guilty of this from both sides of the aisle. Governors could have shut down states in January or February but they didn't. I'm in Washington state. We had the first confirmed cases in the United States. Our Democratic Governor took this as serious as the president did. He could've shut down the state but he waited until mid-March when we were in a full blown pandemic. Our numbers are higher than ever. Why isn't he doing more to stop COVID? I could ask these questions all day long.The reason why I chimed in was because of the Bob Woodward article. These interviews were from January and February. If Trump's COVID response was so bad 8 months ago, why did Bob wait until now to talk about it? If Bob Woodward's intentions were pure, he would've released this information the day he had it. Instead he has to write a book to make money. Don't you think the timing is questionable? A true journalist wouldn't be concerned about writing a book and releasing this information 8 months too late!I did address it but you decided to look the other way, "In regards to Trump downplaying COVID-19, he said he was downplaying this because he didn't want to cause panic." Trump is an idiot but had Bob Woodward come out months ago, would that have saved lives? Would there have been more push back against Trump to do more? Yes, I do question his intentions just as you question Trump's.How many other countries that were successful in their initial response are now having an uptick in cases? Are you blaming them the same as you blame Trump? This virus is not something a world leader can just stop.
every country that was successful is having an expected uptick in cases because that's what happens when you reopen the economy. you can't keep the economy closed forever. the difference is, trump didn't do one goddamn thing except downplay it. it's all about mitigating disaster on a medical front.
had trump actually closed the border to china as he keeps lying about doing, yes, the deaths would be cut in at least half, if not more.They are called idiots not because someone doesn’t agree with their opinions but because...
THEY REFUSE TO LISTEN TO SCIENCE AND ARE WILLING TO RISK THE LIVES OF OTHERS WITH THEIR IRRESPONSIBLE AND SELFISH ACTIONS
Science is not an opinion.
Science tells us social d and masks save lives. Columbia University said it’s 80% less. Stop trying to dissect an educated guess at what the precise percentage is and listen to the science. Social d and masks saves lives. Closing China did crap because the virus was already here by the time he shut it down and 40,000 got here from China afterwards.And trump knew social D was the way to save lives on FEBRUARY 7 and lied to the public about it. That’s why he gets the blame.
.0 -
I unfortunately live in a state with a piece-of-shit governor who kisses presidential ass. He is against a statewide mask mandate and insists schools should be open. Luckily we have a mask mandate in my city and the local public schools are 100% virtual.
His house is on one of my regular running routes. I have been know to stop in front of his house where I know the security cameras are on me and put on a mask. Stand for a few seconds and resume my run.
On my return I stop and repeat.
0 -
Bentleyspop said:I unfortunately live in a state with a piece-of-shit governor who kisses presidential ass. He is against a statewide mask mandate and insists schools should be open. Luckily we have a mask mandate in my city and the local public schools are 100% virtual.
His house is on one of my regular running routes. I have been know to stop in front of his house where I know the security cameras are on me and put on a mask. Stand for a few seconds and resume my run.
On my return I stop and repeat.How do you feel about New York's governor wanting to reopen schools? Funny how when Trump says we need schools to reopen he gets accused of wanting to kill kids but I haven't heard that same criticism against Governor Cuomo.0 -
Fauci says it will possibly be "late 2021 before we are back to pre-covid normalcy".
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/11/health/fauci-normal-life-2021/index.html
By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.0 -
-
I can't help but wonder how much "normal" life will be again. I would surely like that, but I can't help but wonder what will be different.HughFreakingDillon said:Fauci says it will possibly be "late 2021 before we are back to pre-covid normalcy".
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/11/health/fauci-normal-life-2021/index.html
"It's a sad and beautiful world"-Roberto Benigni0 -
I fear the free samples at Costco may be gone forever. What kind of new normal is this?!brianlux said:
I can't help but wonder how much "normal" life will be again. I would surely like that, but I can't help but wonder what will be different.HughFreakingDillon said:Fauci says it will possibly be "late 2021 before we are back to pre-covid normalcy".
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/11/health/fauci-normal-life-2021/index.html0 -
Probably not concerned based on the stipulations put in place and how that decision was made. Planning and communication matter. Quit trying to act like people are picking on Trump. He's an idiot who doesn't learn from anything.JB16057 said:Bentleyspop said:I unfortunately live in a state with a piece-of-shit governor who kisses presidential ass. He is against a statewide mask mandate and insists schools should be open. Luckily we have a mask mandate in my city and the local public schools are 100% virtual.
His house is on one of my regular running routes. I have been know to stop in front of his house where I know the security cameras are on me and put on a mask. Stand for a few seconds and resume my run.
On my return I stop and repeat.How do you feel about New York's governor wanting to reopen schools? Funny how when Trump says we need schools to reopen he gets accused of wanting to kill kids but I haven't heard that same criticism against Governor Cuomo.
But Mr. Cuomo’s announcement does not guarantee that school buildings in the state’s more than 700 local districts will actually reopen in the coming weeks. It is now up to local politicians and superintendents to decide whether to reopen, and how to do so. Their in-person reopening plans must also be approved by the state’s education and health departments in the coming weeks.
Under the governor’s announcement, schools can decide to open as long as they are in a region where the average rate of positive coronavirus tests is below 5 percent over a two- week period. That threshold was recommended by the World Health Organization to begin general reopening and has recently been adopted by some school districts.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/07/nyregion/cuomo-schools-reopening.html
Compared to:“All schools should be making plans to resume in-person classes as soon as possible,” Trump said.
The president has tried to force re-openings by saying that half the money for schools in the next round of stimulus legislation should be reserved for those that open their doors.
Trump has asserted that children are “virtually immune” to the coronavirus. The president appears to be referring to the notion that children are less likely to become ill from the virus, even though they can spread it to adults.
It's a hopeless situation...0
This discussion has been closed.
Categories
- All Categories
- 148.8K Pearl Jam's Music and Activism
- 110K The Porch
- 274 Vitalogy
- 35K Given To Fly (live)
- 3.5K Words and Music...Communication
- 39.1K Flea Market
- 39.1K Lost Dogs
- 58.7K Not Pearl Jam's Music
- 10.6K Musicians and Gearheads
- 29.1K Other Music
- 17.8K Poetry, Prose, Music & Art
- 1.1K The Art Wall
- 56.8K Non-Pearl Jam Discussion
- 22.2K A Moving Train
- 31.7K All Encompassing Trip
- 2.9K Technical Stuff and Help