The coronavirus

Spiritual_Chaos

Lerxst1992 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mickeyrat said:

bootlegger10 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mcgruff10 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Half of NJ (hyperbole, I know) works in NYC, or has neighbors who do... the most highly concentrated zone for this shit.
If Sweden were right next door they would feel the brunt of that as well.

Being the most densely populated state doesn't help us either.  Sweden and nj are in the same ballpark with respect to population but Sweden is approx 23 times bigger than NJ.  

I should have read the entire page first. We really need to stop looking at Sweden. They are an isolated nation. They shut their borders and done, they are efficiently locked down and a million times safer than us.

 NJ didn’t have that option because by the time we ramped up testing, thanks trump, the virus was embedded in the NYC region.

Sweden isn’t also part of a 25 million region with 3 international airports transporting thousands from Italy and China, with vast immigrant communities within its border

Right.  Sweden’s plan may have been crackpot in the US but may end up in the long run the right call for Sweden.   Time will ultimately tell.   Need to see what happens on the other side when countries start re-opening.   

Sweden isnt an island. Its 2 neighbors have a different experience and far lower numbers.

The Netherlands is a little bigger than Sweden at 17 million and has about 4500 fatalities. California is the world wide covid rock star. They had the earliest cases, huge population and “only” 1700 fatalities.

What is the excess death rate for California for this spring?

I see you've latched onto the Fake News, Fake Hospital reporting bullshit.  Hmmm...Google says, based on your previous searches you might enjoy foxnews.com.

Don't know what you are doing now.

But keep it up why don't you.

Everytime someone posts about Covid-19 deaths you are now asking... what about excess death rate...meaning you don;t believe number. Right?

"don't believe number" - what?

There being a lot of cases out there in the world not covered in the numbers out of e.g. hospitals?  

Don't see where the fake news/fake hospital/fox news angle comes from regarding that.

But please, elaborate.

Not sure what you are getting at sc with "excess" death rate.

One of the right wing talking points has been people are not dying of covid, that its something else and it's all a liberal conspiracy to scare everyone. The biggest something else is hypertension. 

Using NY as an example, in a typical month 225 die from hypertension.  In the first month of covid over 9000 NYers died from a combo of covid and hypertension. So obviously the conservatives are trying to obfuscate?

It seems now you are arguing the opposite of that fox news talking point?

When the US beats sweden once in a blue moon at hockey, the fans blame the referee,  right? I think there is alot of that going on with the counting process 

We should trust California reporting. They locked down earlier than anyone else in NA and a majority of their commuters are in their cars, not packed into trains

It seems easy to figure out why Cali has done so well compared to many other places

1. It's pretty clear. I was asking if there had been excess deaths in the state. As there has been in many places around the world. But in some not as much. 

2. I have never said people do not die from covid

3. I don't know what hypertension is. What is your point?

4. I would never argue a fox news talking point. Unless they align with me ofc, and for once would be absolutely correct. Then they would argue a SC talking point.

5. I don't know that much a bout hockey. Doesn't every sportfan blame the referee, regardless of sport and regardless of team?

6. I have not argued Cali would not have done a good job, compared to other places. It's the state of Arnold. He never disappoints. 

Spiritual_Chaos

Sweden says its coronavirus approach has worked. The numbers suggest a different story

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/28/europe/sweden-coronavirus-lockdown-strategy-intl/index.html

Lerxst1992

The million dollar talking point, that leaders are not addressing about reopening is travel. Not even Cuomo.

 Whether it be travel within a region on commuter trains and subways, or from region to region on airlines, travel needs to be severely regulated. The one glaring characteristic about metro NY, are incredibly high uses of both of these methods of travel.

Spiritual_Chaos

Every time I am forced to take the tram - I just feel like this is an incubator for the virus. This is where the corona happens.

Halifax2TheMax

Oh dear.

https://apple.news/AGh2vsAiyR-KZrOkHc1mMpA

cincybearcat

Spiritual_Chaos said:

Sweden says its coronavirus approach has worked. The numbers suggest a different story

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/04/28/europe/sweden-coronavirus-lockdown-strategy-intl/index.html

Was just reading this.  Too early to compare longterm and that is Sweden's talking point.  But the shorterm results are dire for sweden.  

Sweden basically saying people will die, we can;t do much about it, let's get on with it.  Other countries shutting down to protect people is working in the short term...but what will the long term effects be?  Will they catch up to Sweden's fatality rate anyhow once things open back up?  Was it all a waste?  If places do indeed catch up to Sweden, this would be a game changer in how people respond to the next pandemic.

pjl44

brianlux said:

Mike D88 said:

An overview of the range of vaccines in development:

https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/04/23/a-close-look-at-the-frontrunning-coronavirus-vaccines-as-of-april-23

Some of those look promising, thanks Mike.

I heard something that is pure gossip at this point so I'm asking if anyone knows anything verifiable about this:  I was told by someone that if a company outside the US produces a vaccine, that US big pharma wants complete control/ ownership or it won't get distributed here in the U.S.  Now PLEASE, I repeat, this is  just hearsay and I'm hoping someone hear knows the true scoop.  Thanks!

I have a hard time believing that. People would revolt, first and foremost. But also what does it mean? All pharma companies would insist on shared ownership, production, and distribution? Even if that were true, I don't understand how it would work. 

Also, back when it looked like hydroxychloroquine might be useful, Novartis, Sanofi, and Teva all committed to donating millions of doses. So that's a glimpse at how they handled things with a drug they *do* have rights to.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-novartis-idUSKBN2172ZW

https://www.sanofi.com/en/media-room/press-releases/2020/2020-04-10-07-55-20

https://www.fool.com/investing/2020/03/20/teva-donates-hydroxychloroquine-covid-19-treatment.aspx

bbiggs

Now the CDC says social distancing guidelines apply to household pets?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/coronavirus-social-distancing-guidelines-apply-to-pets-cdc-says/ar-BB13i8PF?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp

benjs

This had me crying within 30 seconds of reading. May this hero rest in peace.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/27/nyregion/new-york-city-doctor-suicide-coronavirus.html

JimmyV

bbiggs said:

Now the CDC says social distancing guidelines apply to household pets?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/coronavirus-social-distancing-guidelines-apply-to-pets-cdc-says/ar-BB13i8PF?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp

We've already pretty much been doing this without trying. Our dog is in the house with us all-day and then on walks is kept at a distance from other people while we keep ourselves at a distance. Our friendly Lab is not a fan but it's all part of the new routine.

mcgruff10

@Spiritual_Chaos Where you there?

Sweden is shutting down bars and restaurants where people defied social distancing guidelines

Officials in Sweden ordered five Stockholm bars and restaurants to close on Sunday after the establishments failed to follow social distancing guidelines.

 Sweden has taken a controversial approach to the novel coronavirus pandemic by urging people to social distance, but also allowing restaurants, schools, and businesses to stay open throughout the outbreak.

Restaurants can still provide table service, but tables have to be spaced 6 feet apart to keep up with government social distancing guidelines. According to AFP, some Stockholm bars defied those guidelines over the weekend and were forced to close because of overcrowding.

Stockholm health official Per Follin told news agency TT, that four of the five bars and restaurants that were forced to close were located in Sodermalm, a trendy and bustling neighborhood of the city.

"The main problem was overcrowding, both inside the premises and outdoors," he said, according to AFP. He said that the establishments will be closed until further notice.

Authorities announced last week that they were increasing measures to enforce social distancing guidelines and that gatherings of more than 50 people have been banned.

Sweden, which has a population of 10.2 million people, has so far had 18,926 confirmed COVID-19 cases, and 2,274 deaths from the virus.

While Sweden has faced criticism over having far more deaths from the virus than its Nordic neighbors, the country's goal with limited restrictions is to reach herd immunity, meaning the majority of the population would become immune to COVID-19 through either having the virus or through a vaccine. At the moment, it's unknown if antibodies from the virus give full immunity or how long they last.

Karin Ulrika Olofsdotter, Sweden's ambassador to the US, told NPR that despite no scientific evidence, she believes herd immunity will prove to be successful.

"About 30% of people in Stockholm have reached a level of immunity," she said. "We could reach herd immunity in the capital as early as next month."

Spiritual_Chaos

mcgruff10 said:

@Spiritual_Chaos Where you there?

Sweden is shutting down bars and restaurants where people defied social distancing guidelines

Officials in Sweden ordered five Stockholm bars and restaurants to close on Sunday after the establishments failed to follow social distancing guidelines.

 Sweden has taken a controversial approach to the novel coronavirus pandemic by urging people to social distance, but also allowing restaurants, schools, and businesses to stay open throughout the outbreak.

Restaurants can still provide table service, but tables have to be spaced 6 feet apart to keep up with government social distancing guidelines. According to AFP, some Stockholm bars defied those guidelines over the weekend and were forced to close because of overcrowding.

Stockholm health official Per Follin told news agency TT, that four of the five bars and restaurants that were forced to close were located in Sodermalm, a trendy and bustling neighborhood of the city.

"The main problem was overcrowding, both inside the premises and outdoors," he said, according to AFP. He said that the establishments will be closed until further notice.

Authorities announced last week that they were increasing measures to enforce social distancing guidelines and that gatherings of more than 50 people have been banned.

Sweden, which has a population of 10.2 million people, has so far had 18,926 confirmed COVID-19 cases, and 2,274 deaths from the virus.

While Sweden has faced criticism over having far more deaths from the virus than its Nordic neighbors, the country's goal with limited restrictions is to reach herd immunity, meaning the majority of the population would become immune to COVID-19 through either having the virus or through a vaccine. At the moment, it's unknown if antibodies from the virus give full immunity or how long they last.

Karin Ulrika Olofsdotter, Sweden's ambassador to the US, told NPR that despite no scientific evidence, she believes herd immunity will prove to be successful.

"About 30% of people in Stockholm have reached a level of immunity," she said. "We could reach herd immunity in the capital as early as next month."

Live on the opposite coast. And no. I was playing "fyra i rad" and drinking wine at a friends flat.

rgambs

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

@Spiritual_Chaos Where you there?

Sweden is shutting down bars and restaurants where people defied social distancing guidelines

Officials in Sweden ordered five Stockholm bars and restaurants to close on Sunday after the establishments failed to follow social distancing guidelines.

 Sweden has taken a controversial approach to the novel coronavirus pandemic by urging people to social distance, but also allowing restaurants, schools, and businesses to stay open throughout the outbreak.

Restaurants can still provide table service, but tables have to be spaced 6 feet apart to keep up with government social distancing guidelines. According to AFP, some Stockholm bars defied those guidelines over the weekend and were forced to close because of overcrowding.

Stockholm health official Per Follin told news agency TT, that four of the five bars and restaurants that were forced to close were located in Sodermalm, a trendy and bustling neighborhood of the city.

"The main problem was overcrowding, both inside the premises and outdoors," he said, according to AFP. He said that the establishments will be closed until further notice.

Authorities announced last week that they were increasing measures to enforce social distancing guidelines and that gatherings of more than 50 people have been banned.

Sweden, which has a population of 10.2 million people, has so far had 18,926 confirmed COVID-19 cases, and 2,274 deaths from the virus.

While Sweden has faced criticism over having far more deaths from the virus than its Nordic neighbors, the country's goal with limited restrictions is to reach herd immunity, meaning the majority of the population would become immune to COVID-19 through either having the virus or through a vaccine. At the moment, it's unknown if antibodies from the virus give full immunity or how long they last.

Karin Ulrika Olofsdotter, Sweden's ambassador to the US, told NPR that despite no scientific evidence, she believes herd immunity will prove to be successful.

"About 30% of people in Stockholm have reached a level of immunity," she said. "We could reach herd immunity in the capital as early as next month."

Live on the opposite coast. And no. I was playing "fyra i rad" and drinking wine at a friends flat.

So, not practicing social distancing voluntarily? 
Same friend you went to lunch with or a different one?

Spiritual_Chaos

rgambs said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

@Spiritual_Chaos Where you there?

Sweden is shutting down bars and restaurants where people defied social distancing guidelines

Officials in Sweden ordered five Stockholm bars and restaurants to close on Sunday after the establishments failed to follow social distancing guidelines.

 Sweden has taken a controversial approach to the novel coronavirus pandemic by urging people to social distance, but also allowing restaurants, schools, and businesses to stay open throughout the outbreak.

Restaurants can still provide table service, but tables have to be spaced 6 feet apart to keep up with government social distancing guidelines. According to AFP, some Stockholm bars defied those guidelines over the weekend and were forced to close because of overcrowding.

Stockholm health official Per Follin told news agency TT, that four of the five bars and restaurants that were forced to close were located in Sodermalm, a trendy and bustling neighborhood of the city.

"The main problem was overcrowding, both inside the premises and outdoors," he said, according to AFP. He said that the establishments will be closed until further notice.

Authorities announced last week that they were increasing measures to enforce social distancing guidelines and that gatherings of more than 50 people have been banned.

Sweden, which has a population of 10.2 million people, has so far had 18,926 confirmed COVID-19 cases, and 2,274 deaths from the virus.

While Sweden has faced criticism over having far more deaths from the virus than its Nordic neighbors, the country's goal with limited restrictions is to reach herd immunity, meaning the majority of the population would become immune to COVID-19 through either having the virus or through a vaccine. At the moment, it's unknown if antibodies from the virus give full immunity or how long they last.

Karin Ulrika Olofsdotter, Sweden's ambassador to the US, told NPR that despite no scientific evidence, she believes herd immunity will prove to be successful.

"About 30% of people in Stockholm have reached a level of immunity," she said. "We could reach herd immunity in the capital as early as next month."

Live on the opposite coast. And no. I was playing "fyra i rad" and drinking wine at a friends flat.

So, not practicing social distancing voluntarily? 
Same friend you went to lunch with or a different one?

Different one. 

I'm sure hoping you keep 6 feet away from your family if you have any.

social distancing at all costs or you are part of the problem. Am I right?

bbiggs

JimmyV said:

bbiggs said:

Now the CDC says social distancing guidelines apply to household pets?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/coronavirus-social-distancing-guidelines-apply-to-pets-cdc-says/ar-BB13i8PF?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp

We've already pretty much been doing this without trying. Our dog is in the house with us all-day and then on walks is kept at a distance from other people while we keep ourselves at a distance. Our friendly Lab is not a fan but it's all part of the new routine.

Same here regarding distancing on walks.  We unexpectedly had to take our dog to the vet on Friday for an emergency surgery.  When he came home on Saturday, naturally he is going to be near us, as we want him to be.  Being that he was exposed to other people at the animal hospital, this article suggests we should avoid petting him, having him lick, sleep near us, etc.  This is one of those cases where I'm going to have to push guidelines aside and hope for the best.

rgambs

Spiritual_Chaos said:

rgambs said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

@Spiritual_Chaos Where you there?

Sweden is shutting down bars and restaurants where people defied social distancing guidelines

Officials in Sweden ordered five Stockholm bars and restaurants to close on Sunday after the establishments failed to follow social distancing guidelines.

 Sweden has taken a controversial approach to the novel coronavirus pandemic by urging people to social distance, but also allowing restaurants, schools, and businesses to stay open throughout the outbreak.

Restaurants can still provide table service, but tables have to be spaced 6 feet apart to keep up with government social distancing guidelines. According to AFP, some Stockholm bars defied those guidelines over the weekend and were forced to close because of overcrowding.

Stockholm health official Per Follin told news agency TT, that four of the five bars and restaurants that were forced to close were located in Sodermalm, a trendy and bustling neighborhood of the city.

"The main problem was overcrowding, both inside the premises and outdoors," he said, according to AFP. He said that the establishments will be closed until further notice.

Authorities announced last week that they were increasing measures to enforce social distancing guidelines and that gatherings of more than 50 people have been banned.

Sweden, which has a population of 10.2 million people, has so far had 18,926 confirmed COVID-19 cases, and 2,274 deaths from the virus.

While Sweden has faced criticism over having far more deaths from the virus than its Nordic neighbors, the country's goal with limited restrictions is to reach herd immunity, meaning the majority of the population would become immune to COVID-19 through either having the virus or through a vaccine. At the moment, it's unknown if antibodies from the virus give full immunity or how long they last.

Karin Ulrika Olofsdotter, Sweden's ambassador to the US, told NPR that despite no scientific evidence, she believes herd immunity will prove to be successful.

"About 30% of people in Stockholm have reached a level of immunity," she said. "We could reach herd immunity in the capital as early as next month."

Live on the opposite coast. And no. I was playing "fyra i rad" and drinking wine at a friends flat.

So, not practicing social distancing voluntarily? 
Same friend you went to lunch with or a different one?

Different one. 

I'm sure hoping you keep 6 feet away from your family if you have any.

social distancing at all costs or you are part of the problem. Am I right?

I haven't seen anyone who doesn't live in my home socially in 6 weeks.  You'll find that probably more than 90% of the people posting in this thread will say the same.

The rich part is that one of your Johan Savior Giesecke's biggest defenses of Sweden's lax regulations is the high level of Swedish compliance with voluntary recommendations.  You've even defended this "compliance", while not complying.  

JimmyV

bbiggs said:

JimmyV said:

bbiggs said:

Now the CDC says social distancing guidelines apply to household pets?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/coronavirus-social-distancing-guidelines-apply-to-pets-cdc-says/ar-BB13i8PF?li=BBnb7Kz&ocid=iehp

We've already pretty much been doing this without trying. Our dog is in the house with us all-day and then on walks is kept at a distance from other people while we keep ourselves at a distance. Our friendly Lab is not a fan but it's all part of the new routine.

Same here regarding distancing on walks.  We unexpectedly had to take our dog to the vet on Friday for an emergency surgery.  When he came home on Saturday, naturally he is going to be near us, as we want him to be.  Being that he was exposed to other people at the animal hospital, this article suggests we should avoid petting him, having him lick, sleep near us, etc.  This is one of those cases where I'm going to have to push guidelines aside and hope for the best.

In your situation I would almost certainly do the same. Hope your pup is OK!

Spiritual_Chaos

rgambs said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

rgambs said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

@Spiritual_Chaos Where you there?

Sweden is shutting down bars and restaurants where people defied social distancing guidelines

Officials in Sweden ordered five Stockholm bars and restaurants to close on Sunday after the establishments failed to follow social distancing guidelines.

 Sweden has taken a controversial approach to the novel coronavirus pandemic by urging people to social distance, but also allowing restaurants, schools, and businesses to stay open throughout the outbreak.

Restaurants can still provide table service, but tables have to be spaced 6 feet apart to keep up with government social distancing guidelines. According to AFP, some Stockholm bars defied those guidelines over the weekend and were forced to close because of overcrowding.

Stockholm health official Per Follin told news agency TT, that four of the five bars and restaurants that were forced to close were located in Sodermalm, a trendy and bustling neighborhood of the city.

"The main problem was overcrowding, both inside the premises and outdoors," he said, according to AFP. He said that the establishments will be closed until further notice.

Authorities announced last week that they were increasing measures to enforce social distancing guidelines and that gatherings of more than 50 people have been banned.

Sweden, which has a population of 10.2 million people, has so far had 18,926 confirmed COVID-19 cases, and 2,274 deaths from the virus.

While Sweden has faced criticism over having far more deaths from the virus than its Nordic neighbors, the country's goal with limited restrictions is to reach herd immunity, meaning the majority of the population would become immune to COVID-19 through either having the virus or through a vaccine. At the moment, it's unknown if antibodies from the virus give full immunity or how long they last.

Karin Ulrika Olofsdotter, Sweden's ambassador to the US, told NPR that despite no scientific evidence, she believes herd immunity will prove to be successful.

"About 30% of people in Stockholm have reached a level of immunity," she said. "We could reach herd immunity in the capital as early as next month."

Live on the opposite coast. And no. I was playing "fyra i rad" and drinking wine at a friends flat.

So, not practicing social distancing voluntarily? 
Same friend you went to lunch with or a different one?

Different one. 

I'm sure hoping you keep 6 feet away from your family if you have any.

social distancing at all costs or you are part of the problem. Am I right?

I haven't seen anyone who doesn't live in my home socially in 6 weeks.  You'll find that probably more than 90% of the people posting in this thread will say the same.

The rich part is that one of your Johan Savior Giesecke's biggest defenses of Sweden's lax regulations is the high level of Swedish compliance with voluntary recommendations.  You've even defended this "compliance", while not complying.  

But I sure hope you keep 6 feet away from everyone inside your home also right? 

I mean we have to beat this? So, you are keeping 6 feet away from your wife, brothers/sisters, children etc?

mfc2006

benjs said:

This had me crying within 30 seconds of reading. May this hero rest in peace.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/27/nyregion/new-york-city-doctor-suicide-coronavirus.html

So sad. Sadly, I think we may see more of this. May she rest in peace.

rgambs

Spiritual_Chaos said:

rgambs said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

rgambs said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

@Spiritual_Chaos Where you there?

Sweden is shutting down bars and restaurants where people defied social distancing guidelines

Officials in Sweden ordered five Stockholm bars and restaurants to close on Sunday after the establishments failed to follow social distancing guidelines.

 Sweden has taken a controversial approach to the novel coronavirus pandemic by urging people to social distance, but also allowing restaurants, schools, and businesses to stay open throughout the outbreak.

Restaurants can still provide table service, but tables have to be spaced 6 feet apart to keep up with government social distancing guidelines. According to AFP, some Stockholm bars defied those guidelines over the weekend and were forced to close because of overcrowding.

Stockholm health official Per Follin told news agency TT, that four of the five bars and restaurants that were forced to close were located in Sodermalm, a trendy and bustling neighborhood of the city.

"The main problem was overcrowding, both inside the premises and outdoors," he said, according to AFP. He said that the establishments will be closed until further notice.

Authorities announced last week that they were increasing measures to enforce social distancing guidelines and that gatherings of more than 50 people have been banned.

Sweden, which has a population of 10.2 million people, has so far had 18,926 confirmed COVID-19 cases, and 2,274 deaths from the virus.

While Sweden has faced criticism over having far more deaths from the virus than its Nordic neighbors, the country's goal with limited restrictions is to reach herd immunity, meaning the majority of the population would become immune to COVID-19 through either having the virus or through a vaccine. At the moment, it's unknown if antibodies from the virus give full immunity or how long they last.

Karin Ulrika Olofsdotter, Sweden's ambassador to the US, told NPR that despite no scientific evidence, she believes herd immunity will prove to be successful.

"About 30% of people in Stockholm have reached a level of immunity," she said. "We could reach herd immunity in the capital as early as next month."

Live on the opposite coast. And no. I was playing "fyra i rad" and drinking wine at a friends flat.

So, not practicing social distancing voluntarily? 
Same friend you went to lunch with or a different one?

Different one. 

I'm sure hoping you keep 6 feet away from your family if you have any.

social distancing at all costs or you are part of the problem. Am I right?

I haven't seen anyone who doesn't live in my home socially in 6 weeks.  You'll find that probably more than 90% of the people posting in this thread will say the same.

The rich part is that one of your Johan Savior Giesecke's biggest defenses of Sweden's lax regulations is the high level of Swedish compliance with voluntary recommendations.  You've even defended this "compliance", while not complying.  

But I sure hope you keep 6 feet away from everyone inside your home also right? 

I mean we have to beat this? So, you are keeping 6 feet away from your wife, brothers/sisters, children etc?

It's hard to form a response to this that doesn't violate forum rules on discussing topic and not posters.  
I think it's best to just let the monumental foolishness of this shine for all to see.