The coronavirus

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  • static111static111 Posts: 725
    pjl44 said:
    Oh, and that Medicare premium doesn't include a drug plan. So tack another $40/month on for a basic plan.
    $184/month seems like a deal to me
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 6,158
    edited June 28
    static111 said:
    pjl44 said:
    Oh, and that Medicare premium doesn't include a drug plan. So tack another $40/month on for a basic plan.
    $184/month seems like a deal to me
    Again, plus every dollar you've paid in ahead of time.

    Also, I only quoted the $1,400 hospital deductible (which you're on the hook for as many as 5-6 times per year, depending on how your hospitalizations fall). For routine medical care, there is an annual $200 deductible and you pay 20% of the cost of services.

    Basically, cost share for services winds up being much higher than copays people are used to paying with private plans.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 17,526
    pjl44 said:
    static111 said:
    pjl44 said:
    Oh, and that Medicare premium doesn't include a drug plan. So tack another $40/month on for a basic plan.
    $184/month seems like a deal to me
    Again, plus every dollar you've paid in ahead of time.

    Also, I only quoted the $1,400 hospital deductible (which you're on the hook for as many as 5-6 times per year, depending on how your hospitalizations fall). For routine medical care, there is an annual $200 deductible and you pay 20% of the cost of services.

    Basically, cost share for services winds up being much higher than copays people are used to paying with private plans.
    This is an important point. M4A won't be $184 per month.  It's designed as an entitlement earned over your working years.  So I don't see how it could be priced the same as for a senior.  The only caveat is risk,  which none of us can possiblity calculate.  Usage obviously increases as you age. 
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 6,158
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    static111 said:
    pjl44 said:
    Oh, and that Medicare premium doesn't include a drug plan. So tack another $40/month on for a basic plan.
    $184/month seems like a deal to me
    Again, plus every dollar you've paid in ahead of time.

    Also, I only quoted the $1,400 hospital deductible (which you're on the hook for as many as 5-6 times per year, depending on how your hospitalizations fall). For routine medical care, there is an annual $200 deductible and you pay 20% of the cost of services.

    Basically, cost share for services winds up being much higher than copays people are used to paying with private plans.
    This is an important point. M4A won't be $184 per month.  It's designed as an entitlement earned over your working years.  So I don't see how it could be priced the same as for a senior.  The only caveat is risk,  which none of us can possiblity calculate.  Usage obviously increases as you age. 
    Very true. Plus, all of the enrollment rules, penalties, etc. are designed for beneficiaries who are ultimately going to stay on it once they join. It would take a pretty massive overhaul to design it as a safety net. To your point, accounting for that actuarially seems pretty daunting. I can’t see how excess costs would be passed along to older folks without a revolt, so it would almost certainly have to be absorbed by this newly eligible class.
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 6,158
    Let me get things back on track. First Fauci and now Gottlieb sounding optimistic on a vaccine. Gottlieb here saying 6 months seems possible and also bullish on more treatment options over that period.

    https://theweek.com/speedreads-amp/922516/former-fda-commissioner-confidently-predicts-6-months-until-vaccine-treatment-ends-epidemic
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 17,526
    pjl44 said:
    Let me get things back on track. First Fauci and now Gottlieb sounding optimistic on a vaccine. Gottlieb here saying 6 months seems possible and also bullish on more treatment options over that period.

    https://theweek.com/speedreads-amp/922516/former-fda-commissioner-confidently-predicts-6-months-until-vaccine-treatment-ends-epidemic
    Yes but the demand worldwide means it could be months after that before we have it available,  particularly if said treatment does not originate in the States. 
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 6,158
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    Let me get things back on track. First Fauci and now Gottlieb sounding optimistic on a vaccine. Gottlieb here saying 6 months seems possible and also bullish on more treatment options over that period.

    https://theweek.com/speedreads-amp/922516/former-fda-commissioner-confidently-predicts-6-months-until-vaccine-treatment-ends-epidemic
    Yes but the demand worldwide means it could be months after that before we have it available,  particularly if said treatment does not originate in the States. 
    Who's to say only one demonstrates safety and efficacy? There are several heading into Phase 3 trials soon.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 17,526
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    Let me get things back on track. First Fauci and now Gottlieb sounding optimistic on a vaccine. Gottlieb here saying 6 months seems possible and also bullish on more treatment options over that period.

    https://theweek.com/speedreads-amp/922516/former-fda-commissioner-confidently-predicts-6-months-until-vaccine-treatment-ends-epidemic
    Yes but the demand worldwide means it could be months after that before we have it available,  particularly if said treatment does not originate in the States. 
    Who's to say only one demonstrates safety and efficacy? There are several heading into Phase 3 trials soon.
    There may be more than one, but as soon as the first one is ready, the demand for that will far outpace any available supply for many months.  Now you would think whoever is successful will provide the science to other nations can start producing, but it will still be a long process before the virus is gone.  I'm not being negative but even if it is ready by the end of the year, I feel like that the logistical challenges will be just starting.  
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 18,129
    meanwhile 500k dead worldwide confirmed and 10 mil confirmed positive worldwide
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  • dignindignin Posts: 8,262
    Hate to be Debbie Downer but...

    Asymptomatic COVID-19 findings dim hopes for 'herd immunity' and 'immunity passports'


    Antibodies few and short-lived, lung abnormalities found in asymptomatic carriers


    https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/asymptomatic-covid-19-1.5629172

    And then there's this...


    chase-rice-concert-coronavirus-1593383417

    Tennessee Concert Attracts Packed Crowd With No Masks Or Social Distancing


    https://www.stereogum.com/2089588/chace-rice-concert-tennessee-coronavirus-crowd/news/



    YOLO!!
  • SmellymanSmellyman AsiaPosts: 4,176
    The Darwin tour.


  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 24,066
    dignin said:
    Hate to be Debbie Downer but...

    Asymptomatic COVID-19 findings dim hopes for 'herd immunity' and 'immunity passports'


    Antibodies few and short-lived, lung abnormalities found in asymptomatic carriers


    https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/asymptomatic-covid-19-1.5629172

    And then there's this...


    chase-rice-concert-coronavirus-1593383417

    Tennessee Concert Attracts Packed Crowd With No Masks Or Social Distancing


    https://www.stereogum.com/2089588/chace-rice-concert-tennessee-coronavirus-crowd/news/



    YOLO!!
    The energy of an outdoor venue at a former state penitentiary has to be unreal. Right up there with Immagine in Cornice. 
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  • static111static111 Posts: 725
    mickeyrat said:
    meanwhile 500k dead worldwide confirmed and 10 mil confirmed positive worldwide
    But Rush said it’s the flu
  • static111static111 Posts: 725
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    Let me get things back on track. First Fauci and now Gottlieb sounding optimistic on a vaccine. Gottlieb here saying 6 months seems possible and also bullish on more treatment options over that period.

    https://theweek.com/speedreads-amp/922516/former-fda-commissioner-confidently-predicts-6-months-until-vaccine-treatment-ends-epidemic
    Yes but the demand worldwide means it could be months after that before we have it available,  particularly if said treatment does not originate in the States. 
    Who's to say only one demonstrates safety and efficacy? There are several heading into Phase 3 trials soon.
    There may be more than one, but as soon as the first one is ready, the demand for that will far outpace any available supply for many months.  Now you would think whoever is successful will provide the science to other nations can start producing, but it will still be a long process before the virus is gone.  I'm not being negative but even if it is ready by the end of the year, I feel like that the logistical challenges will be just starting.  
    I’m really hoping that whoever produces the vaccine sees it as A humanitarian resource and not a cash grab. Not to derail but just wanted to thank you and @PJ44 For your perspectives on the health insurance pitfalls surrounding covid.
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 6,158
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    Let me get things back on track. First Fauci and now Gottlieb sounding optimistic on a vaccine. Gottlieb here saying 6 months seems possible and also bullish on more treatment options over that period.

    https://theweek.com/speedreads-amp/922516/former-fda-commissioner-confidently-predicts-6-months-until-vaccine-treatment-ends-epidemic
    Yes but the demand worldwide means it could be months after that before we have it available,  particularly if said treatment does not originate in the States. 
    Who's to say only one demonstrates safety and efficacy? There are several heading into Phase 3 trials soon.
    There may be more than one, but as soon as the first one is ready, the demand for that will far outpace any available supply for many months.  Now you would think whoever is successful will provide the science to other nations can start producing, but it will still be a long process before the virus is gone.  I'm not being negative but even if it is ready by the end of the year, I feel like that the logistical challenges will be just starting.  
    I’m really hoping that whoever produces the vaccine sees it as A humanitarian resource and not a cash grab. Not to derail but just wanted to thank you and @PJ44 For your perspectives on the health insurance pitfalls surrounding covid.
    I work in healthcare and could peck out a random list of strong opinions, glaring inefficiencies, and principles that I think should be bedrocks. Whenever I try to mash all of that together and figure out how I think the system should function, it's completely overwhelming. There's a reason why private companies and governments constantly fumble it. Balancing cost effectiveness with equal access and quality is really, really, extremely, very difficult. 
  • SmellymanSmellyman AsiaPosts: 4,176
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    Let me get things back on track. First Fauci and now Gottlieb sounding optimistic on a vaccine. Gottlieb here saying 6 months seems possible and also bullish on more treatment options over that period.

    https://theweek.com/speedreads-amp/922516/former-fda-commissioner-confidently-predicts-6-months-until-vaccine-treatment-ends-epidemic
    Yes but the demand worldwide means it could be months after that before we have it available,  particularly if said treatment does not originate in the States. 
    Who's to say only one demonstrates safety and efficacy? There are several heading into Phase 3 trials soon.
    There may be more than one, but as soon as the first one is ready, the demand for that will far outpace any available supply for many months.  Now you would think whoever is successful will provide the science to other nations can start producing, but it will still be a long process before the virus is gone.  I'm not being negative but even if it is ready by the end of the year, I feel like that the logistical challenges will be just starting.  
    I’m really hoping that whoever produces the vaccine sees it as A humanitarian resource and not a cash grab. Not to derail but just wanted to thank you and @PJ44 For your perspectives on the health insurance pitfalls surrounding covid.

    One reason to hope it is first developed outside the USA.
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 6,158
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    Let me get things back on track. First Fauci and now Gottlieb sounding optimistic on a vaccine. Gottlieb here saying 6 months seems possible and also bullish on more treatment options over that period.

    https://theweek.com/speedreads-amp/922516/former-fda-commissioner-confidently-predicts-6-months-until-vaccine-treatment-ends-epidemic
    Yes but the demand worldwide means it could be months after that before we have it available,  particularly if said treatment does not originate in the States. 
    Who's to say only one demonstrates safety and efficacy? There are several heading into Phase 3 trials soon.
    There may be more than one, but as soon as the first one is ready, the demand for that will far outpace any available supply for many months.  Now you would think whoever is successful will provide the science to other nations can start producing, but it will still be a long process before the virus is gone.  I'm not being negative but even if it is ready by the end of the year, I feel like that the logistical challenges will be just starting.  
    Maybe? I think there are too many different scenarios for how this plays out to really sweat one. What you're describing is one of the worst case scenarios, short of no vaccine.

    I'll throw an extra wrinkle in your scenario, though. What if the first one that breaks has good but not great efficacy data? And preliminary data for 2 others looks great but is still a month or two away from review? So neither is a lock. What do you do then? It's going to be a wild ride.
  • pjl44pjl44 Posts: 6,158
    Smellyman said:
    static111 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    pjl44 said:
    Let me get things back on track. First Fauci and now Gottlieb sounding optimistic on a vaccine. Gottlieb here saying 6 months seems possible and also bullish on more treatment options over that period.

    https://theweek.com/speedreads-amp/922516/former-fda-commissioner-confidently-predicts-6-months-until-vaccine-treatment-ends-epidemic
    Yes but the demand worldwide means it could be months after that before we have it available,  particularly if said treatment does not originate in the States. 
    Who's to say only one demonstrates safety and efficacy? There are several heading into Phase 3 trials soon.
    There may be more than one, but as soon as the first one is ready, the demand for that will far outpace any available supply for many months.  Now you would think whoever is successful will provide the science to other nations can start producing, but it will still be a long process before the virus is gone.  I'm not being negative but even if it is ready by the end of the year, I feel like that the logistical challenges will be just starting.  
    I’m really hoping that whoever produces the vaccine sees it as A humanitarian resource and not a cash grab. Not to derail but just wanted to thank you and @PJ44 For your perspectives on the health insurance pitfalls surrounding covid.

    One reason to hope it is first developed outside the USA.
    In many of these cases you're talking about large, multinational pharmaceutical companies. It's not all about what country they're headquartered in. I expect that whomever has the first would take care of their home country first with existing stock, but if it's as simple as sharing the technology they almost certainly will. There are ramifications well beyond profits that would disincentivize hoarding.

    Look at how these companies have handled early treatment authorizations. Whether it was the brief moment when hydroxychloroquine looked viable or remdesivir later, companies gave away their supplies for distribution and ramped up production. 
  • g under pg under p Surfing The far side of THE Sombrero GalaxyPosts: 17,727
    g under p said:
    *THINGS NEED TO BREATHE*

    ONLY in Florida and my county Palm Beach. These are citizens of PBCounty who are anti-maskers raging at *devils laws* mandate. Please give a watch of what this woman says within the first minute. UNBELIEVABLE! 



    Peace
    These are people who live here whom I might run into if I ever go out. At my club we just had our first confirmed case COVID19 last week. These people seem to be unaware Florida is BACK in a crisis mode. This while my PBeach friends are leaving in droves on their private planes, oh I think I need a vacation from this crazy state.

    Peace
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  • JimmyVJimmyV Boston's MetroWestPosts: 14,606
    FOX should just rebrand this as "Obamaflu" so that the tribe can take it seriously and toe the party line. 
    ___________________________________________

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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 14,088
    This is a nightmare damn we should be at the top of list of countries with good containment policies and yet we are an abismal failure as a country on any containment!
    Agree. We had time to react and lead. Could have “dominated” the world economy as well if we did this correctly. Swing and a miss....actually, caught looking. 
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 21,006
    edited June 29
    Sweden is the only EU country not welcomed when Greece opens to tourists on July 1. It announced the Greek Prime Minister, Kyriakos Mitsotakis, on Monday, writes several media outlets.
    An additional 18 non-EU countries will be allowed tourists in Greece. By contrast, British, Russians and Americans, among others, are still banned along with the Swedes.
    The decision is based on the high number of infected people in Sweden and the other countries. It is unclear if Swedes will be prevented from entering the country via other means of transport.



    Lucky me Pearl Jam isn't playing there this summer. Those rascals.
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  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 17,526
    Sweden is the only EU country not welcomed when Greece opens to tourists on July 1. It announced the Greek Prime Minister, Kyriakos Mitsotakis, on Monday, writes several media outlets.
    An additional 18 non-EU countries will be allowed tourists in Greece. By contrast, British, Russians and Americans, among others, are still banned along with the Swedes.
    The decision is based on the high number of infected people in Sweden and the other countries. It is unclear if Swedes will be prevented from entering the country via other means of transport.



    Lucky me Pearl Jam isn't playing there this summer. Those rascals.
    You're an honorary American today!  You're just like us!  Congrats!  Now what are you doing about the uninsured in our mutual country?
  • OnWis97OnWis97 St. Paul, MNPosts: 2,422
    Is it starting to feel like the GOP is un-digging its heels on the mask issue?  I just read Moscow Mitch's tween saying that people should wear masks and masks should not be stigmatized.  Apparently Pence wore a mask at some point.  Have they seen the light?  (The light most likely being that their view is shared with a small minority and they need to show something the middle can relate to).
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  • mace1229mace1229 Posts: 4,697
    So last month my school district announced a plan to have online Monday’s and then kids go to school every other day Tuesday- Friday to minimize class size.
    They just announced t he y aren’t doing that, school pretty much back to normal next year. Except bigger class sizes due to budget cuts.
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 17,526
    mace1229 said:
    So last month my school district announced a plan to have online Monday’s and then kids go to school every other day Tuesday- Friday to minimize class size.
    They just announced t he y aren’t doing that, school pretty much back to normal next year. Except bigger class sizes due to budget cuts.
    So,  they thought about practical,  safer design but ultimately went with more kids in a fuller class.  Awesome.  

    Which state?
  • PJPOWERPJPOWER In Yo FacePosts: 5,500
    edited June 29
    mace1229 said:
    So last month my school district announced a plan to have online Monday’s and then kids go to school every other day Tuesday- Friday to minimize class size.
    They just announced t he y aren’t doing that, school pretty much back to normal next year. Except bigger class sizes due to budget cuts.
    Unfortunately, children are just seen as numbers,  “bricks in the wall” if you will, in the public school system.  
  • PJNBPJNB New BrunswickPosts: 7,273
    mace1229 said:
    So last month my school district announced a plan to have online Monday’s and then kids go to school every other day Tuesday- Friday to minimize class size.
    They just announced t he y aren’t doing that, school pretty much back to normal next year. Except bigger class sizes due to budget cuts.
    Our highschools are doing every other day inschool and the days they are not is at home either online with the class or with their own curriculum to follow at their own leisure that day. The K-5 is 15 people max per class and full days though they are shorter than the highschool days. My 5 year olds kindergarten class was a size of 20 last year so not too much different for this year. I forget what the middleschool is but it is close to the same as the k-5 are following. Everything is all and good until they shut everything down again I guess. 
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  • PJ_SoulPJ_Soul Vancouver, BCPosts: 48,055
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    "It's like the flu"

    Do you catch the flu in summer?
    I've had the flu in the summer.... Not that I think covid is like the flu.


    Lab-confirmed influenza?
    No, but very obviously the flu. It really couldn't have been anything else IMO. Every single typical symptom. When we have the flu, we generally know it, you know?
    Several other viruses have symptoms similar to influenza, and if it was summer in the Northern Hemisphere it was more likely to be one of them. 
    I dunno... The CDC confirms that influenza circulates year-round. It's just a lot less likely that you'll get it.

    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • The JugglerThe Juggler Behind that bush over there.Posts: 36,935
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    "It's like the flu"

    Do you catch the flu in summer?
    I've had the flu in the summer.... Not that I think covid is like the flu.


    Lab-confirmed influenza?
    No, but very obviously the flu. It really couldn't have been anything else IMO. Every single typical symptom. When we have the flu, we generally know it, you know?
    Several other viruses have symptoms similar to influenza, and if it was summer in the Northern Hemisphere it was more likely to be one of them. 
    I dunno... The CDC confirms that influenza circulates year-round. It's just a lot less likely that you'll get it.

    I think you had swine flu. 
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