The coronavirus

bootlegger10

I wasn't saying we were going to stay locked down.  At some point the country will just have to come to grips people are going to keep dying from it.  I just don't see a path to safely moving away from some social distancing restrictions.   The testing will help but I would expect there to be a decent false negative rate and infection in between testing. 

DewieCox

Yeah, I don’t really get this return dates coming out in dribs and drabs. With or without a plan the wise thing would be to give an 80% worst case scenario date for return  to normalcy. Then if you can open thing up earlier, awesome. 

Even with a plan, I can’t imagine people tolerating this into the fall. 

Some kind of treatment and heightened sanitary regulations has to be the way to attack this. 

pjl44

Lerxst1992 said:

pjl44 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

mace1229 said:

bootlegger10 said:

I just don’t understand how we can’t be locked down until a vaccine. 

That could be a year or longer. You think people can go without work for a year?

The foundation of a good economy is consumer confidence.

 How is that possible before there is a reliable treatment?

I think the biggest problem right now is that no one seems to have a plan. Trump is useless. The CDC and FDA aren't much better. For as well as my Governor has handled things, he's only recently joined this regional consortium and his updates are all very "today and tomorrow" issues.

If someone were offering a timeline with the gradual steps forward we'll be taking, it would go a long way. Give people that and I think we'd be willing to tough it out for a while longer. Right now it's just an indefinite lockdown and people will start to crack. 

If their lives are threatened? Granted it’s much different for me as I am relatively close to NYC. In our state, we have been at social distancing for 26 days, the disease is supposed to have a 14 day life, and we are still getting about 10,000 new cases per day. This makes no sense. The last place I want to be is at my office with anywhere near that amount of daily new cases (very lucky and grateful I can WFH). Without social d those daily new cases would go way up for sure? At some point a large % of Americans would just say screw it, let the 97% survive?


 

So much of the discourse is ECONOMY ON vs. ECONOMY OFF and it's freaking people out while also being completely unrealistic. I can see restaurants and other businesses opening with half capacity, for example. 100k at a college football game is much further away. It's not a binary thing. Like you've said, it's about confidence. That involves a good testing and tracing program, face covering, and voluntary distancing. If that's laid out, I think it starts to build confidence. 

And I can tell you from secondhand experience it is definitely possible to be positive for more than 14 days. 

gimmesometruth27

josevolution said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

josevolution said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

i got called in to cover a surgery tuesday morning. i had not been in a hospital or a surgery center in 11 days. it is insane that some of these hospitals are still doing elective procedures. it is going to get hospital staff sick, and potentially patients, and ancillary staff like me. 

we had a conference call yesterday saying that kansas and missouri will be the last two states to resume elective surgeries, sometime in late june. as a surgical sales rep in missouri and southern illinois, i could be fucked for awhile.

Sorry to hear, here there’s only a few cases being done none are elective we went from over 65 elective cases a day  to basically zero..

that is crazy. hope you all can stay afloat.

i just got an email that they are adding one on for Wed. they are using our graft that will expire the following week. i hate taking risks like this.

Yeah it’s nerve racking to say the least wishing you the best !

thanks dude. you too. stay safe out there and thanks for keeping us all updated.

gimmesometruth27

mcgruff10 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

mcgruff10 said:

bbiggs said:

mcgruff10 said:

NJ schools closed until August

Fixed.

Yeah no doubt it is gonna happen.  

missouri schools canceled the remainder of the school year last week.

When do Missouri schools usually start summer break?  We were supposed to go until June 25.

mcgruff10 said:

gimmesometruth27 said:

mcgruff10 said:

bbiggs said:

mcgruff10 said:

NJ schools closed until August

Fixed.

Yeah no doubt it is gonna happen.  

missouri schools canceled the remainder of the school year last week.

When do Missouri schools usually start summer break?  We were supposed to go until June 25.

they usually have graduation 3rd week of may and then the rest of the students typically have 2-3 more weeks of school left. they were going to go later into june but decided to bag the rest of the year.

pjl44

Speaking VERY broadly, I think there are 3 distinct phases to getting back to life. Each comes with more stuff opening back up, but the rub is that each actually needs to materialize.

Short Term: Testing and tracing, face covering, distancing
Medium Term: Effective treatment
Long Term: Vaccine

gimmesometruth27

Hi! said:

DETROIT – In the last several weeks, many false or misleading theories have surfaced on social media about coronavirus, and the response to coronavirus.

We’re taking a look at some of these messages circulating the internet, to see if there’s any credible information available to support it -- or to debunk it.

Michigan banned sales on seeds, gardening, American flags

This is false.

This idea is one of the biggest drivers that sparked a massive protest in Lansing on Wednesday. According to Politifact, this is not specified anywhere in Gov. Whitmer’s stay-home order.

“In reality, executive order 2020-42, which went into effect April 9, 2020, requires larger stores to block off certain areas of their sales floors as a way of limiting the number of people in those stores. The order does not ban gardening or the sale of any product, including, as we mentioned in a previous fact-check, American flags.”

Gov. Whitmer’s order does deem landscaping services as “non-essential,” but some localities are not enforcing.

so they have only been ordered to stay at home for 7 days and on day 6 they acted in this manner?

come on michigan. be better. be an example for your kids. it ain't about your rights or your freedom, so stop pretending like it is.

gimmesometruth27

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

lindamarie73 said:

RoleModelsinBlood31 said:

brianlux said:

Smellyman said:

My guess is that Fauci would LOVE to tell the world what he thinks of Trump but doesn't because it would cost him his job- an important one in thees time of COVID-19.  Trump should stay off the air and just let Fauci do the press conferences.  But, of course, that won't happen because Trump is the expert on everything!

I disagree- I think he’d like to tell everyone how good trump has been on all of this and how shocked he is at the gall of the reporters/media during those press conferences every day. He’s seen how they spin things and ask those “gotcha” kind of questions all the time to try to “get” trump.  He shut down the idea that trump was trying g to silence him the other day- I’m sure he’s just sick of the attempts to spin hard work into a failure.

Look out my friend, you are now labeled in this safe space and your opinion means nothin here in this “all accepting forum”.... 

yeah, they don’t scare me though, I know what I’m getting into when I post in here.  I’s another liberal tank of tears.  Cool people, but they’ve bought the media narrative hook line and sinker even though they’ve been proven wrong for years now. Happily spending their money on muellers waste of time and lapping up impeachment hearings as if they held any truth, to this virus- denying it’s china’s fault, hoping for economic collapse, prompting socialist and communist and anti USA rhetoric, blah blah blah.  As they have said for a long time, “you’ll be on the wrong side of history.”  They’ll look bck
and shrug, but as with the Russia narrative, deep down they know they were all for something that only got proven to be their own side (doj/fbi) was colluding by attempting a coup the whole time.


I take sollace in knowing the tsunami of red votes that will come in November.  We stand stoic and win, they cry horror and lose.  Watching it all go down and the Facebook and forum meltdowns make the nonsense in between all worthwhile.

gimmesometruth27

i am no economist, but why is the stock market doing as well as it is with 22 million people now on unemployment? how has it not tanked with everyone getting $1200 checks? How is it not tanking with all the the money being sent to businesses? None of this can be good for the economy, yet how are the stock markets doing this well?

GlowGirl

JW269453 said:

tempo_n_groove said:

oftenreading said:

static111 said:

https://www.freep.com/story/sports/columnists/shawn-windsor/2020/04/15/gretchen-whitmer-protest-michigan-capitol-coronavirus/5142203002/

I am sorry to live among people like this

It’s the natural outcome of an extreme focus on individual “rights” over collective good. It leads to millions upon millions of people who believe that no one has the right to tell them what to do, even if their actions harm others. 

It goes beyond that.  I am having these conversations with people here in NY and they believe that "their civil liberties are being trampled on".  
They say they "have a right to not wear a mask or social distance but if you want to do it that's ok but don't force it on us/me."

These same people are saying that "the government made the usa a totalitarian country , just like that and everyone fell in a row."

When you have places that have 40 deaths in the state of course you are going to have angry people but they don't get it.  What we are experiencing here in NY is like no other place.  I do wonder if it is because of our mass transit system?  Our high rises?

The rest of the US isn't getting what we are and they are frustrated, I get that.  How do you make someone understand?

Explaining NYC to someone who has never been there is difficult, there is no other city in the US that comes close as far as comparison. It also has to be the easiest to spread a virus like this due to the population density, close living quarters, mass transit and incoming/outgoing travel. If the virus can be controlled there it will be exponentially easier to control anywhere else, but the rest of the country doesn't need to be naive about it.

I live in Manhattan. I get it. I had to do some essential errands today and most people I saw out and about were wearing masks. I have been wearing one for weeks when I am out. However, not all were. The required mask wearing starts in two days. I am hoping that will increase the number of people wearing masks out in public. But, it probably won't until they start fining people.

CM189191

Minnesota is joining a regional pact with five other Midwestern states that will coordinate on reopening their respective economies amid the coronavirus outbreak.

It was announced on Thursday that Gov. Tim Walz has agreed to join the pact along with governors Gretchen Whitmer (D-Michigan), Mike DeWine (R-Ohio), Tony Evers (D-Wisconsin), JB Pritzker (D-Illinois), Eric Holcomb (R-Indiana), and Andy Beshear (D-Kentucky).

All seven of these states have some form of Stay at Home order in place to slow the spread of the coronavirus. 

bbiggs

pjl44 said:

Speaking VERY broadly, I think there are 3 distinct phases to getting back to life. Each comes with more stuff opening back up, but the rub is that each actually needs to materialize.

Short Term: Testing and tracing, face covering, distancing
Medium Term: Effective treatment
Long Term: Vaccine

totally agree but getting everyone to buy in won’t happen.  Too many people that will make a statement by not wearing a mask because they think the virus is a hoax used to take down the trump economy. 

Jason P

gimmesometruth27 said:

i am no economist, but why is the stock market doing as well as it is with 22 million people now on unemployment? how has it not tanked with everyone getting $1200 checks? How is it not tanking with all the the money being sent to businesses? None of this can be good for the economy, yet how are the stock markets doing this well?

If I knew I'd be on Leo's wolf yacht right now clicking martini glasses and telling the FEDS to go fuck themselves. 

pjl44

bbiggs said:

pjl44 said:

Speaking VERY broadly, I think there are 3 distinct phases to getting back to life. Each comes with more stuff opening back up, but the rub is that each actually needs to materialize.

Short Term: Testing and tracing, face covering, distancing
Medium Term: Effective treatment
Long Term: Vaccine

totally agree but getting everyone to buy in won’t happen.  Too many people that will make a statement by not wearing a mask because they think the virus is a hoax used to take down the trump economy. 

You don't need everyone to buy in. If/when testing is widely available, I think the vast majority are interested in it. (Antibody testing included.) Mask availability should pick up, too. It's really just about a dramatic risk reduction...it doesn't need to be 100% or even 90% participation. I was at the grocery store yesterday and about 1/3 of people had no face covering. Didn't really phase me. You can still distance. 

tbergs

bbiggs said:

pjl44 said:

Speaking VERY broadly, I think there are 3 distinct phases to getting back to life. Each comes with more stuff opening back up, but the rub is that each actually needs to materialize.

Short Term: Testing and tracing, face covering, distancing
Medium Term: Effective treatment
Long Term: Vaccine

totally agree but getting everyone to buy in won’t happen.  Too many people that will make a statement by not wearing a mask because they think the virus is a hoax used to take down the trump economy. 

I just wish we could get the mass testing going for everyone all across the country. I think what we would find is that many people have had it and recovered and may even be immune or at least less impacted if a second round occurs. I have been working the entire time and I have contact with dozens of people while observing physical distancing because my role is to manage the restricted access of everyone who comes to the College I work at. We have basically closed down all operations besides one wing for those who absolutely need some type of resource they can't get at home. None of my team or anyone we work with has been tested or confirmed as having COVID even though 2 did exhibit minor illnesses with similar symptoms at times in the last month and self quarantine for 2 weeks.

Ultimately, the lack of testing is really what is holding everything back. If we had adequate testing and were able to trace, we could start slowly moving towards loosening restrictions and identifying those that could return to work in some way.

Hi!

pjl44

Hi! said:

I would applaud any store ignoring that guidance 

brianlux

bootlegger10 said:

I wasn't saying we were going to stay locked down.  At some point the country will just have to come to grips people are going to keep dying from it.  I just don't see a path to safely moving away from some social distancing restrictions.   The testing will help but I would expect there to be a decent false negative rate and infection in between testing. 

I still think that the suggestions made in the MIT article are the most sensible.  No solution is perfect.  There is no perfect solution.

pjl44

tbergs said:

bbiggs said:

pjl44 said:

Speaking VERY broadly, I think there are 3 distinct phases to getting back to life. Each comes with more stuff opening back up, but the rub is that each actually needs to materialize.

Short Term: Testing and tracing, face covering, distancing
Medium Term: Effective treatment
Long Term: Vaccine

totally agree but getting everyone to buy in won’t happen.  Too many people that will make a statement by not wearing a mask because they think the virus is a hoax used to take down the trump economy. 

I just wish we could get the mass testing going for everyone all across the country. I think what we would find is that many people have had it and recovered and may even be immune or at least less impacted if a second round occurs. I have been working the entire time and I have contact with dozens of people while observing physical distancing because my role is to manage the restricted access of everyone who comes to the College I work at. We have basically closed down all operations besides one wing for those who absolutely need some type of resource they can't get at home. None of my team or anyone we work with has been tested or confirmed as having COVID even though 2 did exhibit minor illnesses with similar symptoms at times in the last month and self quarantine for 2 weeks.

Ultimately, the lack of testing is really what is holding everything back. If we had adequate testing and were able to trace, we could start slowly moving towards loosening restrictions and identifying those that could return to work in some way.

Agree 100%. Between press conferences and articles, I don’t feel like any of these questions are being addressed thoroughly:

- When can we expect wide availability of testing for most citizens? Antibody testing, included.
- Is there any plan to allow the sale of home tests?
- How do states/localities plan to compile and use that data once available?

I don't feel like all that much progress has been made almost a month into lockdown. At least around me, you still need to satisfy enough criteria to get tested. We seem to be stagnating on this. 

Kat

A sh*t show eh? Stay safe all.

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1250652650112196609