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Andrew Yang's Humanity Forward Movement

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  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    ecdanc said:
    ecdanc said:
    As someone who is strongly pro-choice, I disagree with the term  “tragedy”, but let’s be realistic here - no medical or surgical procedure is risk-free so it’s always better to avoid an unwanted pregnancy where possible, rather than consider abortion as just another means of contraception. 
    No birth control is risk free. 
    Sure, but some have more risks than others, and a surgical procedure involving anaesthesia will generally have a higher risk than many of the alternative contraception options. 
    That’s fair. I just think your suggestion that something is “always better” than abortion has unintended consequences. 

    No. I work with facts and I'm not interested in providing half-truth narratives when it comes to people's health, so I don't buy this line of reasoning.

    For conversations where you think you might want to use that argument, better to just point out that pregnancy and childbirth are far more dangerous to a woman's health than abortion or any of the legitimate contraception methods. 
    I hear you: you're saying you believe something else (broadly defined as "health") outweighs those unintended consequences. I understand that position. 
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    hedonist said:
    Yeah, I've had some labels tossed at me too, even just recently!  We all have.  Not very nice but if they're not true, fuck it - ultimately means nothing.

    As to the bickering, could you folks please take it to pm's already?
    Who gets to decide if they're true? ;)

  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    Do the rest of us get to vote on who is more arrogant/pompous?

    Asking for a friend ;)
    I'll concede the vote, but not the point. :)
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 34,299

    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,553
    Everyone is entitled to an opinion on anything they want to have an opinion on, Mr. Thought Police.
    That doesn't mean everyone is entitled to a VOTE on every issue, but we all have opinions, including Mr. Thought Police.

    I like Yang, he's a smart fellow and I would be glad to have him as POTUS.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    rgambs said:
    Everyone is entitled to an opinion on anything they want to have an opinion on, Mr. Thought Police.
    That doesn't mean everyone is entitled to a VOTE on every issue, but we all have opinions, including Mr. Thought Police.

    I like Yang, he's a smart fellow and I would be glad to have him as POTUS.
    Why? 
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,553
    ecdanc said:
    rgambs said:
    Everyone is entitled to an opinion on anything they want to have an opinion on, Mr. Thought Police.
    That doesn't mean everyone is entitled to a VOTE on every issue, but we all have opinions, including Mr. Thought Police.

    I like Yang, he's a smart fellow and I would be glad to have him as POTUS.
    Why? 
    Having freedom of thought is an intrinsic part of being human.  Most opinions probably aren't worth a damn, but that doesn't mean we should control what people think.  Not that we could, anyways.
    I'm shocked a University professor would be so eager to censor the very thoughts of those with whom he disagrees.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    rgambs said:
    ecdanc said:
    rgambs said:
    Everyone is entitled to an opinion on anything they want to have an opinion on, Mr. Thought Police.
    That doesn't mean everyone is entitled to a VOTE on every issue, but we all have opinions, including Mr. Thought Police.

    I like Yang, he's a smart fellow and I would be glad to have him as POTUS.
    Why? 
    Having freedom of thought is an intrinsic part of being human.  Most opinions probably aren't worth a damn, but that doesn't mean we should control what people think.  Not that we could, anyways.
    I'm shocked a University professor would be so eager to censor the very thoughts of those with whom he disagrees.
    Who is censoring? I'm in no position to censor anyone but myself. And I do.

    This is why I earlier said that I find cincy (and perhaps you) more arrogant than me: you grant yourself the right to have an opinion on literally everything. I would never claim that for myself. 
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 34,299
    rgambs said:
    Everyone is entitled to an opinion on anything they want to have an opinion on, Mr. Thought Police.
    That doesn't mean everyone is entitled to a VOTE on every issue, but we all have opinions, including Mr. Thought Police.

    I like Yang, he's a smart fellow and I would be glad to have him as POTUS.
    :plus_one:

    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,553
    ecdanc said:
    rgambs said:
    ecdanc said:
    rgambs said:
    Everyone is entitled to an opinion on anything they want to have an opinion on, Mr. Thought Police.
    That doesn't mean everyone is entitled to a VOTE on every issue, but we all have opinions, including Mr. Thought Police.

    I like Yang, he's a smart fellow and I would be glad to have him as POTUS.
    Why? 
    Having freedom of thought is an intrinsic part of being human.  Most opinions probably aren't worth a damn, but that doesn't mean we should control what people think.  Not that we could, anyways.
    I'm shocked a University professor would be so eager to censor the very thoughts of those with whom he disagrees.
    Who is censoring? I'm in no position to censor anyone but myself. And I do.

    This is why I earlier said that I find cincy (and perhaps you) more arrogant than me: you grant yourself the right to have an opinion on literally everything. I would never claim that for myself. 
    Hahaha really?  You're going to say that after firmly expressing your opinion on the topic?
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    rgambs said:
    ecdanc said:
    rgambs said:
    ecdanc said:
    rgambs said:
    Everyone is entitled to an opinion on anything they want to have an opinion on, Mr. Thought Police.
    That doesn't mean everyone is entitled to a VOTE on every issue, but we all have opinions, including Mr. Thought Police.

    I like Yang, he's a smart fellow and I would be glad to have him as POTUS.
    Why? 
    Having freedom of thought is an intrinsic part of being human.  Most opinions probably aren't worth a damn, but that doesn't mean we should control what people think.  Not that we could, anyways.
    I'm shocked a University professor would be so eager to censor the very thoughts of those with whom he disagrees.
    Who is censoring? I'm in no position to censor anyone but myself. And I do.

    This is why I earlier said that I find cincy (and perhaps you) more arrogant than me: you grant yourself the right to have an opinion on literally everything. I would never claim that for myself. 
    Hahaha really?  You're going to say that after firmly expressing your opinion on the topic?
    Which topic?
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    rgambs said:
    ecdanc said:
    rgambs said:
    ecdanc said:
    rgambs said:
    Everyone is entitled to an opinion on anything they want to have an opinion on, Mr. Thought Police.
    That doesn't mean everyone is entitled to a VOTE on every issue, but we all have opinions, including Mr. Thought Police.

    I like Yang, he's a smart fellow and I would be glad to have him as POTUS.
    Why? 
    Having freedom of thought is an intrinsic part of being human.  Most opinions probably aren't worth a damn, but that doesn't mean we should control what people think.  Not that we could, anyways.
    I'm shocked a University professor would be so eager to censor the very thoughts of those with whom he disagrees.
    Who is censoring? I'm in no position to censor anyone but myself. And I do.

    This is why I earlier said that I find cincy (and perhaps you) more arrogant than me: you grant yourself the right to have an opinion on literally everything. I would never claim that for myself. 
    Hahaha really?  You're going to say that after firmly expressing your opinion on the topic?
    I mean honestly, you find it weird to say "this is something on which I don't get an opinion?"
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,553
    🙄
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    ecdanc said:
    rgambs said:
    ecdanc said:
    rgambs said:
    ecdanc said:
    rgambs said:
    Everyone is entitled to an opinion on anything they want to have an opinion on, Mr. Thought Police.
    That doesn't mean everyone is entitled to a VOTE on every issue, but we all have opinions, including Mr. Thought Police.

    I like Yang, he's a smart fellow and I would be glad to have him as POTUS.
    Why? 
    Having freedom of thought is an intrinsic part of being human.  Most opinions probably aren't worth a damn, but that doesn't mean we should control what people think.  Not that we could, anyways.
    I'm shocked a University professor would be so eager to censor the very thoughts of those with whom he disagrees.
    Who is censoring? I'm in no position to censor anyone but myself. And I do.

    This is why I earlier said that I find cincy (and perhaps you) more arrogant than me: you grant yourself the right to have an opinion on literally everything. I would never claim that for myself. 
    Hahaha really?  You're going to say that after firmly expressing your opinion on the topic?
    I mean honestly, you find it weird to say "this is something on which I don't get an opinion?"
    A sampling from the (very long) list of things I don't get to have an opinion about:

    Hockey
    The best cut of steak
    Climate Change
    Industrial Polymers
    Fortnite
    What women can/should do with their bodies. 
  • rgambsrgambs Posts: 13,553
    edited February 2020
    ecdanc said:
    rgambs said:
    ecdanc said:
    rgambs said:
    ecdanc said:
    rgambs said:
    Everyone is entitled to an opinion on anything they want to have an opinion on, Mr. Thought Police.
    That doesn't mean everyone is entitled to a VOTE on every issue, but we all have opinions, including Mr. Thought Police.

    I like Yang, he's a smart fellow and I would be glad to have him as POTUS.
    Why? 
    Having freedom of thought is an intrinsic part of being human.  Most opinions probably aren't worth a damn, but that doesn't mean we should control what people think.  Not that we could, anyways.
    I'm shocked a University professor would be so eager to censor the very thoughts of those with whom he disagrees.
    Who is censoring? I'm in no position to censor anyone but myself. And I do.

    This is why I earlier said that I find cincy (and perhaps you) more arrogant than me: you grant yourself the right to have an opinion on literally everything. I would never claim that for myself. 
    Hahaha really?  You're going to say that after firmly expressing your opinion on the topic?
    I mean honestly, you find it weird to say "this is something on which I don't get an opinion?"
    "don't get an opinion" is very VERY different from "YOU don't get an opinion", which is a direct quote.

    I'm not interested in what kind of gymnastic moves you are about to employ to pretend you don't have an opinion on abortion, and didn't just express it in this thread. 
    I relinquish the floor back to Yang Thangers.
    Monkey Driven, Call this Living?
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    rgambs said:
    ecdanc said:
    rgambs said:
    ecdanc said:
    rgambs said:
    ecdanc said:
    rgambs said:
    Everyone is entitled to an opinion on anything they want to have an opinion on, Mr. Thought Police.
    That doesn't mean everyone is entitled to a VOTE on every issue, but we all have opinions, including Mr. Thought Police.

    I like Yang, he's a smart fellow and I would be glad to have him as POTUS.
    Why? 
    Having freedom of thought is an intrinsic part of being human.  Most opinions probably aren't worth a damn, but that doesn't mean we should control what people think.  Not that we could, anyways.
    I'm shocked a University professor would be so eager to censor the very thoughts of those with whom he disagrees.
    Who is censoring? I'm in no position to censor anyone but myself. And I do.

    This is why I earlier said that I find cincy (and perhaps you) more arrogant than me: you grant yourself the right to have an opinion on literally everything. I would never claim that for myself. 
    Hahaha really?  You're going to say that after firmly expressing your opinion on the topic?
    I mean honestly, you find it weird to say "this is something on which I don't get an opinion?"
    "don't get an opinion" is very VERY different from "YOU don't get an opinion", which is 

    I'm not interested in what kind of gymnastic moves you are about to employ to pretend you don't have an opinion on abortion, and didn't just express it in this thread. 
    I relinquish the floor back to Yang Thangers.
    I have tried to be careful on this thread to say "what I think AND what some others think here" is irrelevant. If I have failed in that respect, I apologize. I don't always execute perfectly, but it seems preferable to men insisting repeatedly that they have the right to opinions about what women can/should do with their bodies. 
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 34,299

    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    brianlux said:

    Still completely on topic, at least: is Andrew Yang entitled to an opinion about what women can/should do with their bodies (especially in relation to birth control)?
  • hedonisthedonist standing on the edge of foreverPosts: 23,315
    ecdanc said:
    hedonist said:
    Yeah, I've had some labels tossed at me too, even just recently!  We all have.  Not very nice but if they're not true, fuck it - ultimately means nothing.

    As to the bickering, could you folks please take it to pm's already?
    Who gets to decide if they're true? ;)

    The person being accused, if they’re honest with themselves. 

    Opinions, to me, are natural. It’s part of our judgement process. I say opine from the mountaintops!  Just don’t expect others to live by, let alone respect, them.
  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    hedonist said:
    ecdanc said:
    hedonist said:
    Yeah, I've had some labels tossed at me too, even just recently!  We all have.  Not very nice but if they're not true, fuck it - ultimately means nothing.

    As to the bickering, could you folks please take it to pm's already?
    Who gets to decide if they're true? ;)

    The person being accused, if they’re honest with themselves. 

    Opinions, to me, are natural. It’s part of our judgement process. I say opine from the mountaintops!  Just don’t expect others to live by, let alone respect, them.
    Call me a cynic, but I think you can draw--for most people--a direct line from their opinions to their political actions. Perhaps less of a sense that we're entitled to opinions would reduce the tendency to transform bad opinions into policies. 
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 34,299
    ecdanc said:
    brianlux said:

    Still completely on topic, at least: is Andrew Yang entitled to an opinion about what women can/should do with their bodies (especially in relation to birth control)?

    "Everyone has a right to bodily integrity, and more needs to be done to ensure that women have and maintain that right."


    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    brianlux said:
    ecdanc said:
    brianlux said:

    Still completely on topic, at least: is Andrew Yang entitled to an opinion about what women can/should do with their bodies (especially in relation to birth control)?

    "Everyone has a right to bodily integrity, and more needs to be done to ensure that women have and maintain that right."


    Is there any veracity to the quote/paraphrase that began this part of the conversation?
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 34,299
    edited February 2020
    ecdanc said:
    brianlux said:
    ecdanc said:
    brianlux said:

    Still completely on topic, at least: is Andrew Yang entitled to an opinion about what women can/should do with their bodies (especially in relation to birth control)?

    "Everyone has a right to bodily integrity, and more needs to be done to ensure that women have and maintain that right."


    Is there any veracity to the quote/paraphrase that began this part of the conversation?

    You either believe Yang to be honest and forthright in what he states in his policies (I very much do) or you don't.   
    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    brianlux said:
    ecdanc said:
    brianlux said:
    ecdanc said:
    brianlux said:

    Still completely on topic, at least: is Andrew Yang entitled to an opinion about what women can/should do with their bodies (especially in relation to birth control)?

    "Everyone has a right to bodily integrity, and more needs to be done to ensure that women have and maintain that right."


    Is there any veracity to the quote/paraphrase that began this part of the conversation?

    You either believe Yang to be honest and forthright in what he states in his policies (I very much do) or you don't.   
    That’s an odd response. 
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 34,299
    ecdanc said:
    brianlux said:
    ecdanc said:
    brianlux said:
    ecdanc said:
    brianlux said:

    Still completely on topic, at least: is Andrew Yang entitled to an opinion about what women can/should do with their bodies (especially in relation to birth control)?

    "Everyone has a right to bodily integrity, and more needs to be done to ensure that women have and maintain that right."


    Is there any veracity to the quote/paraphrase that began this part of the conversation?

    You either believe Yang to be honest and forthright in what he states in his policies (I very much do) or you don't.   
    That’s an odd response. 

    Well OK then,  I guess I'm not sure what you're fishing for.


    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • ecdancecdanc Posts: 1,814
    brianlux said:
    ecdanc said:
    brianlux said:
    ecdanc said:
    brianlux said:
    ecdanc said:
    brianlux said:

    Still completely on topic, at least: is Andrew Yang entitled to an opinion about what women can/should do with their bodies (especially in relation to birth control)?

    "Everyone has a right to bodily integrity, and more needs to be done to ensure that women have and maintain that right."


    Is there any veracity to the quote/paraphrase that began this part of the conversation?

    You either believe Yang to be honest and forthright in what he states in his policies (I very much do) or you don't.   
    That’s an odd response. 

    Well OK then,  I guess I'm not sure what you're fishing for.


    I’m not fishing for anything. I see it wasn’t you who posted Yang’s comments regarding abortion and “tragedy.” As one of his supporters, I thought you might have more insight about what he actually said. 
  • brianluxbrianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain.Posts: 34,299
    ecdanc said:
    brianlux said:
    ecdanc said:
    brianlux said:
    ecdanc said:
    brianlux said:
    ecdanc said:
    brianlux said:

    Still completely on topic, at least: is Andrew Yang entitled to an opinion about what women can/should do with their bodies (especially in relation to birth control)?

    "Everyone has a right to bodily integrity, and more needs to be done to ensure that women have and maintain that right."


    Is there any veracity to the quote/paraphrase that began this part of the conversation?

    You either believe Yang to be honest and forthright in what he states in his policies (I very much do) or you don't.   
    That’s an odd response. 

    Well OK then,  I guess I'm not sure what you're fishing for.


    I’m not fishing for anything. I see it wasn’t you who posted Yang’s comments regarding abortion and “tragedy.” As one of his supporters, I thought you might have more insight about what he actually said. 

    "Access to safe and affordable abortion services should also be provided to all Americans. Requirements placed by individual states on access should be subject to oversight by a board of doctors, not the whims of legislators who have no background on the procedure or even the basics of medicine.

    The two most effective ways to decrease the number of abortions are to provide every woman with access to contraceptives and to provide financial, emotional, and structural support to individuals who are financially struggling and become pregnant—Universal Basic Income would accomplish this for many prospective parents."


    Does that help?


    “In all human affairs there are efforts, and there are results, and the strength of the effort is the measure of the result.”
    -James Allen










  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 26,494
    my take on what yang said, if i may, is what @Bentleyspop has been saying (i think it was bentlyspop-forgive me if i am incorrect) that it should be:

    legal
    safe
    rare

    now with regards to the 'rare' portion, bear with me, i believe that to mean that if we support people with enough education and access to proper health care, the rarer abortions will be. which i guess would be at least a part of the goal? i mean, the fewer medical procedures, the better, right?
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 26,494
    ecdanc said:
    ecdanc said:
    ecdanc said:
    ecdanc said:
    What’s wrong with that? 
    *raises hand*
    You looking for an invitation? I already asked the question.
    Treating abortion as a tragedy cedes to anti-choice people ground re: what constitutes life. 
    Perhaps. But I do think it’s a tragedy and a failure. A failure of the education system or a failure of proper manufacturing of protection or a failure of judgement in the moment. Lots of failures cause I’ve been told nobody is pro-abortion. So you would think an abortion is seen as a non-preferred outcome for anyone 
    It’s birth control. It’s no more a failure than an IUD Is


    Perhaps you should read before writing.
    https://secularhumanism.org/2016/07/cont-why-i-am-pro-abortion-not-just-pro-choice/ 

    Wait a minute... Hugh? Did you read this?

    ;)

    Well I certainly disagree with this article, but all are allowed to have their opinions no matter how absurd. 
    yeah, haha, i actually came across this when i said that 'literally no one is pro abortion' many moons ago. didn't i actually post it in one of my responses? i thought i had. i was shocked to find that there are people who consider themselves pro abortion. i find that an odd distinction to make. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon HeadstoniaPosts: 26,494
    ecdanc said:
    rgambs said:
    ecdanc said:
    rgambs said:
    Everyone is entitled to an opinion on anything they want to have an opinion on, Mr. Thought Police.
    That doesn't mean everyone is entitled to a VOTE on every issue, but we all have opinions, including Mr. Thought Police.

    I like Yang, he's a smart fellow and I would be glad to have him as POTUS.
    Why? 
    Having freedom of thought is an intrinsic part of being human.  Most opinions probably aren't worth a damn, but that doesn't mean we should control what people think.  Not that we could, anyways.
    I'm shocked a University professor would be so eager to censor the very thoughts of those with whom he disagrees.
    Who is censoring? I'm in no position to censor anyone but myself. And I do.

    This is why I earlier said that I find cincy (and perhaps you) more arrogant than me: you grant yourself the right to have an opinion on literally everything. I would never claim that for myself. 
    you literally have said several times over many threads "you aren't entitled to an opinion on this". not sure how it can be a more clear example of censoring. 

    gambs is a self-professed arrogant. and i think i can speak for many that we still love him to bits. 
    (Track 10 of The Headstones' Nickels For Your Nightmares)


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