The Democratic Presidential Debates

cincybearcat

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

cincybearcat said:

This election is going to be even worse than Trump-Clinton.  Trump-Sanders...a lose lose.

In 2016, the DNC put forward a right-leaning moderate that got no one excited. At least Sanders has a base. 

Completely agree. People that like him, REALLY like him. And people that are skeptical can maybe see the good in him if he's up against Trump. It might not be a contest between capitalism and socialism. It might be a contest between Trump and Sanders. Who do you like more? The more likeable canidate seems to win most of the time, Obama being a good example. 

Well that's the problem with Sanders, something I was thinking about this morning.  He has one disposition...angry.  That's it.  He smiles once in a while but is generally humorless, and I always feel like he's yelling at me.  I don't know that it plays well in a general.  

He is always yelling at you and talking down to you...and he will tax the shit out of you.

ecdanc

cincybearcat said:

ecdanc said:

dignin said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

cincybearcat said:

This election is going to be even worse than Trump-Clinton.  Trump-Sanders...a lose lose.

Tell it to the SCs of the world.

In reality Bernie has zero health care plan as there's no way in hell his gets passed by congress.

Exactly. That's why this notion that Bernie will turn the country into Soviet Russia is absurd. If elected president, he'd be blocked at every turn by the congress (both Republicans and moderate democrats). But at least he'd return the country to a bit of normalcy following Trump.

I also think it's not out of the realm of possibility that he can beat Trump. If it's down to just the two of them in the general, anything can happen. As was the case in 2016. 2020 will likely be the highest voter turnout ever. And the democrats are pretty good at registering young people to vote. So if they actually backed Sanders to the fullest, it's possible he can win. But they probably won't. They'll cross their arms and pout, and blame people that voted for Sanders in the primary for Trump's re-election. 

I agree. Is there a name for the moderate bro's?

A lot of running around with their hair on fire at a potential Sanders nomination. I guess now they know how progressives feel about moderate candidates and their fear that they can't win.

Everyone just needs to calm down and prepare to do everything they can to get whoever is the nominee elected. Unite and stop the whining. 

I have several acquaintances that I refer to as militant moderates. They're the people who rarely have any ideas, but they LOVE to talk about how everyone else's ideas are just too crazy. You can identify the militant moderate because they're always using the words "compromise," "reasonable," "consensus," "progress," and the like. For some people, it's an ethos--no matter the situation (a presidential election, a department meeting, chatting over beers) you can count on them to eye-roll any notion beyond the most milquetoast banality. 

I'm shocked to learn you label another group of people...shocked I say!

"People say they want that...but their actions show they don't.  They want a loud-mouthed person blaming someone else for their problems and talking about policies that even their staunches supporters in congress say can't happen."

Spiritual_Chaos

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

cincybearcat said:

This election is going to be even worse than Trump-Clinton.  Trump-Sanders...a lose lose.

In 2016, the DNC put forward a right-leaning moderate that got no one excited. At least Sanders has a base. 

Completely agree. People that like him, REALLY like him. And people that are skeptical can maybe see the good in him if he's up against Trump. It might not be a contest between capitalism and socialism. It might be a contest between Trump and Sanders. Who do you like more? The more likeable canidate seems to win most of the time, Obama being a good example. 

Well that's the problem with Sanders, something I was thinking about this morning.  He has one disposition...angry.  That's it.  He smiles once in a while but is generally humorless, and I always feel like he's yelling at me.  I don't know that it plays well in a general.  

He is always yelling at you and talking down to you...and he will tax the shit out of you.

Maybe if you should be yelled at, you perceive it that way.

A lot of people seem to feel he is bringing them with him on the journey to reaching the very baseline of a working humane country*.


* scientifically proven

mrussel1

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

cincybearcat said:

This election is going to be even worse than Trump-Clinton.  Trump-Sanders...a lose lose.

In 2016, the DNC put forward a right-leaning moderate that got no one excited. At least Sanders has a base. 

Completely agree. People that like him, REALLY like him. And people that are skeptical can maybe see the good in him if he's up against Trump. It might not be a contest between capitalism and socialism. It might be a contest between Trump and Sanders. Who do you like more? The more likeable canidate seems to win most of the time, Obama being a good example. 

Well that's the problem with Sanders, something I was thinking about this morning.  He has one disposition...angry.  That's it.  He smiles once in a while but is generally humorless, and I always feel like he's yelling at me.  I don't know that it plays well in a general.  

He is always yelling at you and talking down to you...and he will tax the shit out of you.

Maybe if you should be yelled at, you perceive it that way.

A lot of people seem to feel he is bringing them with him on the journey to reaching the very baseline of a working humane country*.


* scientifically proven

Yes, if you're already on that train I'm sure it's very compelling.  If you're not, then he doesn't move the needle with the style.  

Spiritual_Chaos

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

cincybearcat said:

This election is going to be even worse than Trump-Clinton.  Trump-Sanders...a lose lose.

In 2016, the DNC put forward a right-leaning moderate that got no one excited. At least Sanders has a base. 

Completely agree. People that like him, REALLY like him. And people that are skeptical can maybe see the good in him if he's up against Trump. It might not be a contest between capitalism and socialism. It might be a contest between Trump and Sanders. Who do you like more? The more likeable canidate seems to win most of the time, Obama being a good example. 

Well that's the problem with Sanders, something I was thinking about this morning.  He has one disposition...angry.  That's it.  He smiles once in a while but is generally humorless, and I always feel like he's yelling at me.  I don't know that it plays well in a general.  

This narrative once again. Lol. HE DOESN'T SMILE AND SOMETHING ABOUT BERNIE BROS AND EXECUTIONS IN CENTRAL PARK



If you've seen debates and interviews he is not humourless. 

I've been watching him a long time.  I said 'generally' humorless, and he is.  Look at Pete when Warren was launching that idiot attack on four candidates at one, when she declared that his health plan was from consultants.  He took it in stride, laughed and moved forward.  Dude has thick skin and I like it. 

I'm not saying he's not agitated. But you have to empathise with him, the dude sees the world richest country punishing it's own people in the name of unchecked greed. 

The dude looks at all other major countries and their healthcare, how long people live, how they are not getting personally bankrupt and then looks back at his own. 

How could you not be.

But yes he is grandpa-without-hearing-aid shouty. 

Haha, will look at that part again and focus on Pete. When she said Amys plan was written down on a post it note. 

mrussel1

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

cincybearcat said:

This election is going to be even worse than Trump-Clinton.  Trump-Sanders...a lose lose.

In 2016, the DNC put forward a right-leaning moderate that got no one excited. At least Sanders has a base. 

Completely agree. People that like him, REALLY like him. And people that are skeptical can maybe see the good in him if he's up against Trump. It might not be a contest between capitalism and socialism. It might be a contest between Trump and Sanders. Who do you like more? The more likeable canidate seems to win most of the time, Obama being a good example. 

Well that's the problem with Sanders, something I was thinking about this morning.  He has one disposition...angry.  That's it.  He smiles once in a while but is generally humorless, and I always feel like he's yelling at me.  I don't know that it plays well in a general.  

This narrative once again. Lol. HE DOESN'T SMILE AND SOMETHING ABOUT BERNIE BROS AND EXECUTIONS IN CENTRAL PARK



If you've seen debates and interviews he is not humourless. 

I've been watching him a long time.  I said 'generally' humorless, and he is.  Look at Pete when Warren was launching that idiot attack on four candidates at one, when she declared that his health plan was from consultants.  He took it in stride, laughed and moved forward.  Dude has thick skin and I like it. 

I'm not saying he's not agitated. But you have to empathise with him, the dude sees the world richest country punishing it's own people in the name of unchecked greed. 

The dude looks at all other major countries and their healthcare, how long people live, how they are not getting personally bankrupt and then looks back at his own. 

How could you not be.

But yes he is grandpa-without-hearing-aid shouty. 

Haha, will look at that part again and focus on Pete. When she said Amys plan was written down on a post it note. 

Yes, that's the part.  The MSNBC screen was split on Pete.  I thought his reaction was great.  

Spiritual_Chaos

mrussel1 said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

cincybearcat said:

This election is going to be even worse than Trump-Clinton.  Trump-Sanders...a lose lose.

In 2016, the DNC put forward a right-leaning moderate that got no one excited. At least Sanders has a base. 

Completely agree. People that like him, REALLY like him. And people that are skeptical can maybe see the good in him if he's up against Trump. It might not be a contest between capitalism and socialism. It might be a contest between Trump and Sanders. Who do you like more? The more likeable canidate seems to win most of the time, Obama being a good example. 

Well that's the problem with Sanders, something I was thinking about this morning.  He has one disposition...angry.  That's it.  He smiles once in a while but is generally humorless, and I always feel like he's yelling at me.  I don't know that it plays well in a general.  

He is always yelling at you and talking down to you...and he will tax the shit out of you.

Maybe if you should be yelled at, you perceive it that way.

A lot of people seem to feel he is bringing them with him on the journey to reaching the very baseline of a working humane country*.


* scientifically proven

Yes, if you're already on that train I'm sure it's very compelling.  If you're not, then he doesn't move the needle with the style.  

Yeah. He def comes of as stubborn and "is it's me his angry at?"-ish. I see that.

But I think it would be hard to rework that part of his brand, because it's also who he is. I also think the "WHY SHOULD I HELP OUT ANYONE ELSE?" group of voters, wouldn't vote for him and his empathic policies anyways.

cincybearcat

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

cincybearcat said:

This election is going to be even worse than Trump-Clinton.  Trump-Sanders...a lose lose.

In 2016, the DNC put forward a right-leaning moderate that got no one excited. At least Sanders has a base. 

Completely agree. People that like him, REALLY like him. And people that are skeptical can maybe see the good in him if he's up against Trump. It might not be a contest between capitalism and socialism. It might be a contest between Trump and Sanders. Who do you like more? The more likeable canidate seems to win most of the time, Obama being a good example. 

Well that's the problem with Sanders, something I was thinking about this morning.  He has one disposition...angry.  That's it.  He smiles once in a while but is generally humorless, and I always feel like he's yelling at me.  I don't know that it plays well in a general.  

He is always yelling at you and talking down to you...and he will tax the shit out of you.

Maybe if you should be yelled at, you perceive it that way.

A lot of people seem to feel he is bringing them with him on the journey to reaching the very baseline of a working humane country*.


* scientifically proven

Nah he is just yelling all the time.  I admire his passion, not his method nor his platform.  But his passion is admirable.  I wonder how he hasn't realized how to modify approach to get past his base support.  Because his base is strong and ain't going anywhere.

cincybearcat

ecdanc said:

cincybearcat said:

ecdanc said:

dignin said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

cincybearcat said:

This election is going to be even worse than Trump-Clinton.  Trump-Sanders...a lose lose.

Tell it to the SCs of the world.

In reality Bernie has zero health care plan as there's no way in hell his gets passed by congress.

Exactly. That's why this notion that Bernie will turn the country into Soviet Russia is absurd. If elected president, he'd be blocked at every turn by the congress (both Republicans and moderate democrats). But at least he'd return the country to a bit of normalcy following Trump.

I also think it's not out of the realm of possibility that he can beat Trump. If it's down to just the two of them in the general, anything can happen. As was the case in 2016. 2020 will likely be the highest voter turnout ever. And the democrats are pretty good at registering young people to vote. So if they actually backed Sanders to the fullest, it's possible he can win. But they probably won't. They'll cross their arms and pout, and blame people that voted for Sanders in the primary for Trump's re-election. 

I agree. Is there a name for the moderate bro's?

A lot of running around with their hair on fire at a potential Sanders nomination. I guess now they know how progressives feel about moderate candidates and their fear that they can't win.

Everyone just needs to calm down and prepare to do everything they can to get whoever is the nominee elected. Unite and stop the whining. 

I have several acquaintances that I refer to as militant moderates. They're the people who rarely have any ideas, but they LOVE to talk about how everyone else's ideas are just too crazy. You can identify the militant moderate because they're always using the words "compromise," "reasonable," "consensus," "progress," and the like. For some people, it's an ethos--no matter the situation (a presidential election, a department meeting, chatting over beers) you can count on them to eye-roll any notion beyond the most milquetoast banality. 

I'm shocked to learn you label another group of people...shocked I say!

"People say they want that...but their actions show they don't.  They want a loud-mouthed person blaming someone else for their problems and talking about policies that even their staunches supporters in congress say can't happen."

Ummmmm....I didn't give them a nickname like you and your buddy Trump always do...nor did I claim they are sexist, racist, etc or invent a fake dog whistle narrative to deflect from discussing a topic.  Oh, I forgot "strawman"...didn't do that either.

cincybearcat

As I said, I have about another hour to watch tonight.  BUt from what I saw, I sure hope Bloomberg goes away or at least his support does.  That guy is running on elect-ability and his elect-ability seems to be among the lowest based on his inability to be effective on a debate stage.  He made Joe Biden look put together on the stage...and that is tough to do.

Ledbetterman10

cincybearcat said:

As I said, I have about another hour to watch tonight.  BUt from what I saw, I sure hope Bloomberg goes away or at least his support does.  That guy is running on elect-ability and his elect-ability seems to be among the lowest based on his inability to be effective on a debate stage.  He made Joe Biden look put together on the stage...and that is tough to do.

Nobody benefited last night from Bloomberg's involvement more than Biden. He was just able to sit back, let Warren and Sanders pummel Bloomberg, and sneak in his own shots at Bloomberg here and there. 

I actually thought he did a good job last night when speaking too. Not as much fumbling over words as in past debates.

cincybearcat

Ledbetterman10 said:

cincybearcat said:

As I said, I have about another hour to watch tonight.  BUt from what I saw, I sure hope Bloomberg goes away or at least his support does.  That guy is running on elect-ability and his elect-ability seems to be among the lowest based on his inability to be effective on a debate stage.  He made Joe Biden look put together on the stage...and that is tough to do.

Nobody benefited last night from Bloomberg's involvement than Biden. He was just able to sit back, let Warren and Sanders pummel Bloomberg, and sneak in his own shots at Bloomberg here and there. 

I actually thought he did a good job last night when speaking too. Not as much fumbling over words as in past debates.

Yeah so far from what I've seen Joe was doing ok.  I do find it funny...whenever he talks it's always... "remember me? I'm the guy that obama let do stuff"  "remember me? I've been to mexico"  

Joe I remember you, I'd like to forget you, but you won't let me!

Spiritual_Chaos

cincybearcat said:

As I said, I have about another hour to watch tonight.  BUt from what I saw, I sure hope Bloomberg goes away or at least his support does.  That guy is running on elect-ability and his elect-ability seems to be among the lowest based on his inability to be effective on a debate stage.  He made Joe Biden look put together on the stage...and that is tough to do.

Would be interesting to get a ranking of all the people afterwards from you. I think we see it quite differently

Ledbetterman10

cincybearcat said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

cincybearcat said:

As I said, I have about another hour to watch tonight.  BUt from what I saw, I sure hope Bloomberg goes away or at least his support does.  That guy is running on elect-ability and his elect-ability seems to be among the lowest based on his inability to be effective on a debate stage.  He made Joe Biden look put together on the stage...and that is tough to do.

Nobody benefited last night from Bloomberg's involvement than Biden. He was just able to sit back, let Warren and Sanders pummel Bloomberg, and sneak in his own shots at Bloomberg here and there. 

I actually thought he did a good job last night when speaking too. Not as much fumbling over words as in past debates.

Yeah so far from what I've seen Joe was doing ok.  I do find it funny...whenever he talks it's always... "remember me? I'm the guy that obama let do stuff"  "remember me? I've been to mexico"  

Joe I remember you, I'd like to forget you, but you won't let me!

There was a funny part when they were talking about Amy not knowing the name of the Mexican president. Pete was taking her to task, she was being defensive, and Biden blurts out "I'm the only one up here who's met this man!" 

F Me In The Brain

Ledbetterman10 said:

cincybearcat said:

As I said, I have about another hour to watch tonight.  BUt from what I saw, I sure hope Bloomberg goes away or at least his support does.  That guy is running on elect-ability and his elect-ability seems to be among the lowest based on his inability to be effective on a debate stage.  He made Joe Biden look put together on the stage...and that is tough to do.

Nobody benefited last night from Bloomberg's involvement more than Biden. He was just able to sit back, let Warren and Sanders pummel Bloomberg, and sneak in his own shots at Bloomberg here and there. 

I actually thought he did a good job last night when speaking too. Not as much fumbling over words as in past debates.

Do you notice how frequently Joe Biden switches thoughts, mid-sentence?

He will be answering/speaking about one thing and then just start trying to say something else.

Sorta like my 5 year old...I was laughing about it.

He was best served to let the others talk for a night.

dignin

F Me In The Brain said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

cincybearcat said:

As I said, I have about another hour to watch tonight.  BUt from what I saw, I sure hope Bloomberg goes away or at least his support does.  That guy is running on elect-ability and his elect-ability seems to be among the lowest based on his inability to be effective on a debate stage.  He made Joe Biden look put together on the stage...and that is tough to do.

Nobody benefited last night from Bloomberg's involvement more than Biden. He was just able to sit back, let Warren and Sanders pummel Bloomberg, and sneak in his own shots at Bloomberg here and there. 

I actually thought he did a good job last night when speaking too. Not as much fumbling over words as in past debates.

Do you notice how frequently Joe Biden switches thoughts, mid-sentence?

He will be answering/speaking about one thing and then just start trying to say something else.

Sorta like my 5 year old...I was laughing about it.

He was best served to let the others talk for a night.

Sounds like a winner.

Ledbetterman10

F Me In The Brain said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

cincybearcat said:

As I said, I have about another hour to watch tonight.  BUt from what I saw, I sure hope Bloomberg goes away or at least his support does.  That guy is running on elect-ability and his elect-ability seems to be among the lowest based on his inability to be effective on a debate stage.  He made Joe Biden look put together on the stage...and that is tough to do.

Nobody benefited last night from Bloomberg's involvement more than Biden. He was just able to sit back, let Warren and Sanders pummel Bloomberg, and sneak in his own shots at Bloomberg here and there. 

I actually thought he did a good job last night when speaking too. Not as much fumbling over words as in past debates.

Do you notice how frequently Joe Biden switches thoughts, mid-sentence?

He will be answering/speaking about one thing and then just start trying to say something else.

Sorta like my 5 year old...I was laughing about it.

He was best served to let the others talk for a night.

Yeah I have noticed that. And I agree, less could be more for Joe. 

cincybearcat

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

As I said, I have about another hour to watch tonight.  BUt from what I saw, I sure hope Bloomberg goes away or at least his support does.  That guy is running on elect-ability and his elect-ability seems to be among the lowest based on his inability to be effective on a debate stage.  He made Joe Biden look put together on the stage...and that is tough to do.

Would be interesting to get a ranking of all the people afterwards from you. I think we see it quite differently

Yup, and that's ok.  I'll add my thoughts after I'm done.  Based on the 1st 40 minutes I'd say Pete and Warren (though I'm surprised at her tactic here to be bernie's attack dog for him rather than going after the leader) were having the best night.  Joe probably 3rd as Bloomberg made Joe look viable by being so bad himself.  Bernie probably next, nothing new, nothing amazing, but no attacks that hurt much.  Disappointed in Amy so far, she is letting 1 small miss-step ruin her whole campaign (and to be honest I think it's a stupid issue to make and disappointed in Pete).  Then Bloomberg...just awful.  For those keeping score, at halftime, 3 tiers:
1) Pete
2) Warren

3) Joe
4) Bernie

5) Amy
6) Bloomberg

cincybearcat

Ledbetterman10 said:

F Me In The Brain said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

cincybearcat said:

As I said, I have about another hour to watch tonight.  BUt from what I saw, I sure hope Bloomberg goes away or at least his support does.  That guy is running on elect-ability and his elect-ability seems to be among the lowest based on his inability to be effective on a debate stage.  He made Joe Biden look put together on the stage...and that is tough to do.

Nobody benefited last night from Bloomberg's involvement more than Biden. He was just able to sit back, let Warren and Sanders pummel Bloomberg, and sneak in his own shots at Bloomberg here and there. 

I actually thought he did a good job last night when speaking too. Not as much fumbling over words as in past debates.

Do you notice how frequently Joe Biden switches thoughts, mid-sentence?

He will be answering/speaking about one thing and then just start trying to say something else.

Sorta like my 5 year old...I was laughing about it.

He was best served to let the others talk for a night.

Yeah I have noticed that. And I agree, less could be more for Joe. 

Yup, it's annoying.

dignin

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

As I said, I have about another hour to watch tonight.  BUt from what I saw, I sure hope Bloomberg goes away or at least his support does.  That guy is running on elect-ability and his elect-ability seems to be among the lowest based on his inability to be effective on a debate stage.  He made Joe Biden look put together on the stage...and that is tough to do.

Would be interesting to get a ranking of all the people afterwards from you. I think we see it quite differently

 (though I'm surprised at her tactic here to be bernie's attack dog for him rather than going after the leader) 

Warren is trying to court Bernie voters, not piss them off. Going after Bloomberg I think strategically was her only move.