The Democratic Presidential Debates

mrussel1

dignin said:

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

As I said, I have about another hour to watch tonight.  BUt from what I saw, I sure hope Bloomberg goes away or at least his support does.  That guy is running on elect-ability and his elect-ability seems to be among the lowest based on his inability to be effective on a debate stage.  He made Joe Biden look put together on the stage...and that is tough to do.

Would be interesting to get a ranking of all the people afterwards from you. I think we see it quite differently

 (though I'm surprised at her tactic here to be bernie's attack dog for him rather than going after the leader) 

Warren is trying to court Bernie voters, not piss them off. Going after Bloomberg I think strategically was her only move.

100% true, but at some point she has to move on them unless she thinks she's going to peel enough moderate voters off to overtake Bernie.  I don't think that's possible though.  But who knows. 

cincybearcat

dignin said:

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

As I said, I have about another hour to watch tonight.  BUt from what I saw, I sure hope Bloomberg goes away or at least his support does.  That guy is running on elect-ability and his elect-ability seems to be among the lowest based on his inability to be effective on a debate stage.  He made Joe Biden look put together on the stage...and that is tough to do.

Would be interesting to get a ranking of all the people afterwards from you. I think we see it quite differently

 (though I'm surprised at her tactic here to be bernie's attack dog for him rather than going after the leader) 

Warren is trying to court Bernie voters, not piss them off. Going after Bloomberg I think strategically was her only move.

You don't get Bernie voters without giving them a reason to leave bernie.  So while a reasonable position, I disgree.

dignin

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

As I said, I have about another hour to watch tonight.  BUt from what I saw, I sure hope Bloomberg goes away or at least his support does.  That guy is running on elect-ability and his elect-ability seems to be among the lowest based on his inability to be effective on a debate stage.  He made Joe Biden look put together on the stage...and that is tough to do.

Would be interesting to get a ranking of all the people afterwards from you. I think we see it quite differently

 (though I'm surprised at her tactic here to be bernie's attack dog for him rather than going after the leader) 

Warren is trying to court Bernie voters, not piss them off. Going after Bloomberg I think strategically was her only move.

100% true, but at some point she has to move on them unless she thinks she's going to peel enough moderate voters off to overtake Bernie.  I don't think that's possible though.  But who knows. 

It doesn't look like she can overtake Bernie at this point, he has the progressive momentum. I think she probably knows this. But if something big happens (scandal, health issues) she needs to stay in good standing with those Bernie bro's. It's a shitty position to be in.

cincybearcat

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

As I said, I have about another hour to watch tonight.  BUt from what I saw, I sure hope Bloomberg goes away or at least his support does.  That guy is running on elect-ability and his elect-ability seems to be among the lowest based on his inability to be effective on a debate stage.  He made Joe Biden look put together on the stage...and that is tough to do.

Would be interesting to get a ranking of all the people afterwards from you. I think we see it quite differently

 (though I'm surprised at her tactic here to be bernie's attack dog for him rather than going after the leader) 

Warren is trying to court Bernie voters, not piss them off. Going after Bloomberg I think strategically was her only move.

100% true, but at some point she has to move on them unless she thinks she's going to peel enough moderate voters off to overtake Bernie.  I don't think that's possible though.  But who knows. 

It doesn't look like she can overtake Bernie at this point, he has the progressive momentum. I think she probably knows this. But if something big happens (scandal, health issues) she needs to stay in good standing with those Bernie bro's. It's a shitty position to be in.

Ah, I see your point.  Could be.  But that's not running to win anymore.

mrussel1

cincybearcat said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

As I said, I have about another hour to watch tonight.  BUt from what I saw, I sure hope Bloomberg goes away or at least his support does.  That guy is running on elect-ability and his elect-ability seems to be among the lowest based on his inability to be effective on a debate stage.  He made Joe Biden look put together on the stage...and that is tough to do.

Would be interesting to get a ranking of all the people afterwards from you. I think we see it quite differently

 (though I'm surprised at her tactic here to be bernie's attack dog for him rather than going after the leader) 

Warren is trying to court Bernie voters, not piss them off. Going after Bloomberg I think strategically was her only move.

100% true, but at some point she has to move on them unless she thinks she's going to peel enough moderate voters off to overtake Bernie.  I don't think that's possible though.  But who knows. 

It doesn't look like she can overtake Bernie at this point, he has the progressive momentum. I think she probably knows this. But if something big happens (scandal, health issues) she needs to stay in good standing with those Bernie bro's. It's a shitty position to be in.

Ah, I see your point.  Could be.  But that's not running to win anymore.

You and @dignin might like this article in Reason, as a summary of last night.  They called Warren Queen of the Ashes, as she seeks to burn down all of the other candidates.  It's a short but pretty accurate read in totality, at least from my fairly centrist perspective.  https://reason.com/2020/02/20/warren-queen-of-the-ashes-debate-bloomberg-sanders-convention/

cincybearcat

mrussel1 said:

cincybearcat said:

dignin said:

mrussel1 said:

dignin said:

cincybearcat said:

Spiritual_Chaos said:

cincybearcat said:

As I said, I have about another hour to watch tonight.  BUt from what I saw, I sure hope Bloomberg goes away or at least his support does.  That guy is running on elect-ability and his elect-ability seems to be among the lowest based on his inability to be effective on a debate stage.  He made Joe Biden look put together on the stage...and that is tough to do.

Would be interesting to get a ranking of all the people afterwards from you. I think we see it quite differently

 (though I'm surprised at her tactic here to be bernie's attack dog for him rather than going after the leader) 

Warren is trying to court Bernie voters, not piss them off. Going after Bloomberg I think strategically was her only move.

100% true, but at some point she has to move on them unless she thinks she's going to peel enough moderate voters off to overtake Bernie.  I don't think that's possible though.  But who knows. 

It doesn't look like she can overtake Bernie at this point, he has the progressive momentum. I think she probably knows this. But if something big happens (scandal, health issues) she needs to stay in good standing with those Bernie bro's. It's a shitty position to be in.

Ah, I see your point.  Could be.  But that's not running to win anymore.

You and @dignin might like this article in Reason, as a summary of last night.  They called Warren Queen of the Ashes, as she seeks to burn down all of the other candidates.  It's a short but pretty accurate read in totality, at least from my fairly centrist perspective.  https://reason.com/2020/02/20/warren-queen-of-the-ashes-debate-bloomberg-sanders-convention/

Thanks, was a good read. Liked this...

" Might that be a sign that she's playing fullback for Sanders?" 

 I see it as her being his lap dog/attack dog and I do find it perplexing.  I guess if you have given up winning you shoot for 2nd place (VP)?

ecdanc

cincybearcat said:

ecdanc said:

cincybearcat said:

ecdanc said:

dignin said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

cincybearcat said:

This election is going to be even worse than Trump-Clinton.  Trump-Sanders...a lose lose.

Tell it to the SCs of the world.

In reality Bernie has zero health care plan as there's no way in hell his gets passed by congress.

Exactly. That's why this notion that Bernie will turn the country into Soviet Russia is absurd. If elected president, he'd be blocked at every turn by the congress (both Republicans and moderate democrats). But at least he'd return the country to a bit of normalcy following Trump.

I also think it's not out of the realm of possibility that he can beat Trump. If it's down to just the two of them in the general, anything can happen. As was the case in 2016. 2020 will likely be the highest voter turnout ever. And the democrats are pretty good at registering young people to vote. So if they actually backed Sanders to the fullest, it's possible he can win. But they probably won't. They'll cross their arms and pout, and blame people that voted for Sanders in the primary for Trump's re-election. 

I agree. Is there a name for the moderate bro's?

A lot of running around with their hair on fire at a potential Sanders nomination. I guess now they know how progressives feel about moderate candidates and their fear that they can't win.

Everyone just needs to calm down and prepare to do everything they can to get whoever is the nominee elected. Unite and stop the whining. 

I have several acquaintances that I refer to as militant moderates. They're the people who rarely have any ideas, but they LOVE to talk about how everyone else's ideas are just too crazy. You can identify the militant moderate because they're always using the words "compromise," "reasonable," "consensus," "progress," and the like. For some people, it's an ethos--no matter the situation (a presidential election, a department meeting, chatting over beers) you can count on them to eye-roll any notion beyond the most milquetoast banality. 

I'm shocked to learn you label another group of people...shocked I say!

"People say they want that...but their actions show they don't.  They want a loud-mouthed person blaming someone else for their problems and talking about policies that even their staunches supporters in congress say can't happen."

Ummmmm....I didn't give them a nickname like you and your buddy Trump always do...nor did I claim they are sexist, racist, etc or invent a fake dog whistle narrative to deflect from discussing a topic.  Oh, I forgot "strawman"...didn't do that either.

You didn't forget straw man; you never understood it in the first place. 

brianlux

Some interesting comments from my favorite former candidate, Andrew Yang, on last nights debate:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MJPmj_ARr-s&fbclid=IwAR3BXvYLnmYXJ-zXWr6QtMWO35p4AFXPo3QHj0FIgzfeM7CQVc2DYQC_jW0

cincybearcat

ecdanc said:

cincybearcat said:

ecdanc said:

cincybearcat said:

ecdanc said:

dignin said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

cincybearcat said:

This election is going to be even worse than Trump-Clinton.  Trump-Sanders...a lose lose.

Tell it to the SCs of the world.

In reality Bernie has zero health care plan as there's no way in hell his gets passed by congress.

Exactly. That's why this notion that Bernie will turn the country into Soviet Russia is absurd. If elected president, he'd be blocked at every turn by the congress (both Republicans and moderate democrats). But at least he'd return the country to a bit of normalcy following Trump.

I also think it's not out of the realm of possibility that he can beat Trump. If it's down to just the two of them in the general, anything can happen. As was the case in 2016. 2020 will likely be the highest voter turnout ever. And the democrats are pretty good at registering young people to vote. So if they actually backed Sanders to the fullest, it's possible he can win. But they probably won't. They'll cross their arms and pout, and blame people that voted for Sanders in the primary for Trump's re-election. 

I agree. Is there a name for the moderate bro's?

A lot of running around with their hair on fire at a potential Sanders nomination. I guess now they know how progressives feel about moderate candidates and their fear that they can't win.

Everyone just needs to calm down and prepare to do everything they can to get whoever is the nominee elected. Unite and stop the whining. 

I have several acquaintances that I refer to as militant moderates. They're the people who rarely have any ideas, but they LOVE to talk about how everyone else's ideas are just too crazy. You can identify the militant moderate because they're always using the words "compromise," "reasonable," "consensus," "progress," and the like. For some people, it's an ethos--no matter the situation (a presidential election, a department meeting, chatting over beers) you can count on them to eye-roll any notion beyond the most milquetoast banality. 

I'm shocked to learn you label another group of people...shocked I say!

"People say they want that...but their actions show they don't.  They want a loud-mouthed person blaming someone else for their problems and talking about policies that even their staunches supporters in congress say can't happen."

Ummmmm....I didn't give them a nickname like you and your buddy Trump always do...nor did I claim they are sexist, racist, etc or invent a fake dog whistle narrative to deflect from discussing a topic.  Oh, I forgot "strawman"...didn't do that either.

You didn't forget straw man; you never understood it in the first place. 

Ummmm..ok.  

I actually was just going back through that old thread.  Man you ruined it.  Try not to ruin this one.

Spiritual_Chaos

cincybearcat said:

ecdanc said:

cincybearcat said:

ecdanc said:

cincybearcat said:

ecdanc said:

dignin said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

cincybearcat said:

This election is going to be even worse than Trump-Clinton.  Trump-Sanders...a lose lose.

Tell it to the SCs of the world.

In reality Bernie has zero health care plan as there's no way in hell his gets passed by congress.

Exactly. That's why this notion that Bernie will turn the country into Soviet Russia is absurd. If elected president, he'd be blocked at every turn by the congress (both Republicans and moderate democrats). But at least he'd return the country to a bit of normalcy following Trump.

I also think it's not out of the realm of possibility that he can beat Trump. If it's down to just the two of them in the general, anything can happen. As was the case in 2016. 2020 will likely be the highest voter turnout ever. And the democrats are pretty good at registering young people to vote. So if they actually backed Sanders to the fullest, it's possible he can win. But they probably won't. They'll cross their arms and pout, and blame people that voted for Sanders in the primary for Trump's re-election. 

I agree. Is there a name for the moderate bro's?

A lot of running around with their hair on fire at a potential Sanders nomination. I guess now they know how progressives feel about moderate candidates and their fear that they can't win.

Everyone just needs to calm down and prepare to do everything they can to get whoever is the nominee elected. Unite and stop the whining. 

I have several acquaintances that I refer to as militant moderates. They're the people who rarely have any ideas, but they LOVE to talk about how everyone else's ideas are just too crazy. You can identify the militant moderate because they're always using the words "compromise," "reasonable," "consensus," "progress," and the like. For some people, it's an ethos--no matter the situation (a presidential election, a department meeting, chatting over beers) you can count on them to eye-roll any notion beyond the most milquetoast banality. 

I'm shocked to learn you label another group of people...shocked I say!

"People say they want that...but their actions show they don't.  They want a loud-mouthed person blaming someone else for their problems and talking about policies that even their staunches supporters in congress say can't happen."

Ummmmm....I didn't give them a nickname like you and your buddy Trump always do...nor did I claim they are sexist, racist, etc or invent a fake dog whistle narrative to deflect from discussing a topic.  Oh, I forgot "strawman"...didn't do that either.

You didn't forget straw man; you never understood it in the first place. 

Ummmm..ok.  

I actually was just going back through that old thread.  Man you ruined it.  Try not to ruin this one.

be better than this. 


now time to discuss the debate UNBIASED in all its glory. 

ecdanc

cincybearcat said:

ecdanc said:

cincybearcat said:

ecdanc said:

cincybearcat said:

ecdanc said:

dignin said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

Lerxst1992 said:

cincybearcat said:

This election is going to be even worse than Trump-Clinton.  Trump-Sanders...a lose lose.

Tell it to the SCs of the world.

In reality Bernie has zero health care plan as there's no way in hell his gets passed by congress.

Exactly. That's why this notion that Bernie will turn the country into Soviet Russia is absurd. If elected president, he'd be blocked at every turn by the congress (both Republicans and moderate democrats). But at least he'd return the country to a bit of normalcy following Trump.

I also think it's not out of the realm of possibility that he can beat Trump. If it's down to just the two of them in the general, anything can happen. As was the case in 2016. 2020 will likely be the highest voter turnout ever. And the democrats are pretty good at registering young people to vote. So if they actually backed Sanders to the fullest, it's possible he can win. But they probably won't. They'll cross their arms and pout, and blame people that voted for Sanders in the primary for Trump's re-election. 

I agree. Is there a name for the moderate bro's?

A lot of running around with their hair on fire at a potential Sanders nomination. I guess now they know how progressives feel about moderate candidates and their fear that they can't win.

Everyone just needs to calm down and prepare to do everything they can to get whoever is the nominee elected. Unite and stop the whining. 

I have several acquaintances that I refer to as militant moderates. They're the people who rarely have any ideas, but they LOVE to talk about how everyone else's ideas are just too crazy. You can identify the militant moderate because they're always using the words "compromise," "reasonable," "consensus," "progress," and the like. For some people, it's an ethos--no matter the situation (a presidential election, a department meeting, chatting over beers) you can count on them to eye-roll any notion beyond the most milquetoast banality. 

I'm shocked to learn you label another group of people...shocked I say!

"People say they want that...but their actions show they don't.  They want a loud-mouthed person blaming someone else for their problems and talking about policies that even their staunches supporters in congress say can't happen."

Ummmmm....I didn't give them a nickname like you and your buddy Trump always do...nor did I claim they are sexist, racist, etc or invent a fake dog whistle narrative to deflect from discussing a topic.  Oh, I forgot "strawman"...didn't do that either.

You didn't forget straw man; you never understood it in the first place. 

Ummmm..ok.  

I actually was just going back through that old thread.  Man you ruined it.  Try not to ruin this one.

Maybe I’m Steve. 

Halifax2TheMax

mrussel1 said:

Ledbetterman10 said:

ecdanc said:

cincybearcat said:

This election is going to be even worse than Trump-Clinton.  Trump-Sanders...a lose lose.

In 2016, the DNC put forward a right-leaning moderate that got no one excited. At least Sanders has a base. 

Completely agree. People that like him, REALLY like him. And people that are skeptical can maybe see the good in him if he's up against Trump. It might not be a contest between capitalism and socialism. It might be a contest between Trump and Sanders. Who do you like more? The more likeable canidate seems to win most of the time, Obama being a good example. 

Well that's the problem with Sanders, something I was thinking about this morning.  He has one disposition...angry.  That's it.  He smiles once in a while but is generally humorless, and I always feel like he's yelling at me.  I don't know that it plays well in a general.  

It doesn’t and it won’t. Young people A. Don’t vote in large enough percentages to sway an election and B. There aren’t enough of them, demographically speaking.

HughFreakingDillon

I'd love to see a ticket of two women trounce trump. he'd have a heart attack while taking his next McDump. 

cincybearcat

HughFreakingDillon said:

I'd love to see a ticket of two women trounce trump. he'd have a heart attack while taking his next McDump. 

A 2 woman ticket would piss all over trump! 

mrussel1

HughFreakingDillon said:

I'd love to see a ticket of two women trounce trump. he'd have a heart attack while taking his next McDump. 

How about a gay guy and a woman?  Wouldn't that be even sweeter?  Or Pete and Cory... gay guy and black guy.  

mrussel1

We can't have nice things around here..

HughFreakingDillon

mrussel1 said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

I'd love to see a ticket of two women trounce trump. he'd have a heart attack while taking his next McDump. 

How about a gay guy and a woman?  Wouldn't that be even sweeter?  Or Pete and Cory... gay guy and black guy.  

either way. i would fucking love it. 

cincybearcat

mrussel1 said:

We can't have nice things around here..

Looks like I was half right. Ruined a thread, just  not this one...yet

ecdanc

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

We can't have nice things around here..

Looks like I was half right. Ruined a thread, just  not this one...yet

Just to be clear, could I have the list of people who are allowed to name call and those who aren't?

cincybearcat

ecdanc said:

cincybearcat said:

mrussel1 said:

We can't have nice things around here..

Looks like I was half right. Ruined a thread, just  not this one...yet

Just to be clear, could I have the list of people who are allowed to name call and those who aren't?

I hope you keep this up.