The Democratic Presidential Debates

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  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 28,614
    edited October 2019
    Are we trying to get another democratic topic shut down?
    No but when people say stupid things they need to be addressed.  I enjoy debating but getting personal and insulting shows to me that those particular people do not have the intelligence or skills to rationally discuss.   (even you and I had a funny back and forth but no harm no foul.)
    Post edited by mcgruff10 on
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mcgruff10 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    CM189191 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    I was responding to the "and moderates are terrified" article that was posted. 
    Fair enough, but hte 'terror' is from Warren and Sanders trying to outflank each other on the left on all of their policies, not just a wealth tax thing.  Their escalating price tags is a problem. 
    Correct.  I might honestly vote third party if warren or sanders is the candidate.  (Not that it matters in nj)
    jfc not this shit again

    We are a two party system

    Voting third party reflects a complete ignorance of how our government is set up

    It's not edgy or cool or a protest.  It's flat out ignorant. 
    Lol. I always love the holier than thou attitude and ignorant assumptions by some people.  Thanks for telling me how to vote.  

    It's not holier than thou, or making assumptions.

    Grass is green, sky is blue, USA has a two party political system.  It's really not up for debate.

    Voting third party is like buying a vowel on Jeopardy.  You don't even deserve a participation ribbon. 
    So if people don't like either candidate then they should stay home and not vote?  

    False dilemma : 
    A fallacy of oversimplification that offers a limited number of options (usually two) when in reality more options are available. Also known as the either-or fallacy, the fallacy of the excluded middle, and the black and white fallacy.

    If people don't like either candidate, they should get the fence post out of their ass and realize one candidate is clearly a better option than the other. 

    That candidate is nearly always a Democrat.  By any and every metric, the Democratic party has outperformed the GOP. 

    Prove me wrong.  Or sit down and shut up.  
    so you post the definition of false dilemma, the fallacy of there being only two options, as your argument to mcgruff that there are only two options? interesting debate tactic.  

    shouting at people and insulting their intelligence isn't the way to get them to vote democrat. 
    It is this sense of elitism that gives the dems a bad name and gives more and more ammo to trump. 

    Well, if you want to re-elect Team Trump Treason, vote third party.
    I m not gonna vote for someone on the far left.  Biden Or Pete I will vote for. Sander or warren?  Hell no. 

    What's the point of calling yourself a liberal if you don't allow anyone else to have a different view?  People should absolute analyze each candidate and decide which one most closely aligns with their own beliefs.  This is especially true in the primaries.  

    Because dumb shits throw a fit when their perfect candidate isn't nominated, and vote third party or sit out.  There is no perfect candidate for everyone.  Individuals voters have to compromise their own beliefs for what is good for all of society.  

    That is why the GOP playbook is fear, uncertainty, and doubt.  It plays on the emotions of the individual, rather than promoting actual societal solutions.  

    The question is not which candidate is best for me, it's which candidate is best for the country.  Vote blue no matter who!
    so anyone who votes third party is a dumb shit?  would you consider Teddy Roosevelt a dumb shit? Ralph Nader? Ross Perot?   So I"m supposed to compromise my own beliefs and vote just based on party?  Sounds like you are the blind "dumb shit".  
    I feel like you are calling out millennials but you yourself are the definition of one.  (not me, born 1977)



    so anyone who votes third party is a dumb shit?  
    Yes

    would you consider Teddy Roosevelt a dumb shit?
    pretty sure Teddy was a Republican, and we had a two party system then too

    Ralph Nader? Ross Perot?  
    Yes - both dumb shits.  See also : Gary Johnson and Jill Stein.  

    So I"m supposed to compromise my own beliefs and vote just based on party?  
    No, apparently you just need a better set of beliefs. 

    But if you were to vote based on party, I thinks it's an obvious choice.  Do you want to associate yourself with criminals, pedophiles, racists and warmongers?  Or with the party that wants to figure out how to provide healthcare and education.  You would think it's a no-brainer, but here we are...

    I love the uneducated.  You would do well in politics based on how open you are to other peoples ideas.  I hope you run one day.

    Teddy Roosevelt is nominated for the presidency by the Progressive Party, a group of Republicans dissatisfied with the renomination of President Taft. Also known as the Bull Moose Party, the Progressive platform called for the direct election of U.S. senators, woman suffrage, reduction of the tariff, and many social reforms. Roosevelt, who served as the 26th president of the United States from 1901 to 1909, embarked on a vigorous campaign as the party’s presidential candidate. A key point of his platform was the “Square Deal”–Roosevelt’s concept of a society based on fair business competition and increased welfare for needy Americans.
    Except Teddy became president as a Republican upon the death of McKinley, having been VP. Then was elected again after mcKinley’s original term was up. He ran as a third party in1912 after becoming dissatisfied with Taft’s policies, giving us Wilson as a dem. Had repubs stuck with Taft, rather than vote 3rd party, maybe WW1 doesn’t happen nor the rise of Nazi germany, as some blame Wilson, League of Nations, treaty of Versailles, etc. The point being, third parties gave us Wilson, Clinton twice and GWB. Had the party faithful stuck with their party’s nominee or indies voted with the party that they mostly identified with, they would have gotten “something.” Instead, they got much less of what were closer to their ideals. People who run third party aren’t dumb but people who vote third party may very well be. It seems you’d rather have 4 more years of Team Trump Treason because the dem nominee “might be too far left.” The other funny thing is that regardless of who the eventual POTUS is, they have to work through Congress. A too far left dem has as much chance of passing radical legislation as a far too right Team Trump Treason. Except you probably more closely align with TTT’s repub party?
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  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 28,614
    edited October 2019
    Ghandi could have been elected to the us and world war 1 would have still happened because Europe 1914 had literally nothing to do with the US.  Princip is still killing Franz Ferdinand regardless of an election in 1912. 
    The treaty of Versailles had nothing to do with Wilson.  Dude do you need me to send you a few books on world war 1?  

    I ve been voting blue since 1996 so I don’t understand this blind alliegiance to the Democratic Party. It is ok to criticize and give to suggestions to where the party should go.  
    Post edited by mcgruff10 on
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mcgruff10 said:
    Ghandi could have been elected to the us and world war 1 would have still happened because Europe 1914 had literally nothing to do with the US.  Princip is still killing Franz Ferdinand regardless of an election in 1912. 
    The treaty of Versailles had nothing to do with Wilson.  Dude do you need me to send you a few books on world war 1?  

    I ve been voting blue since 1996 so I don’t understand this blind alliegiance to the Democratic Party. It is ok to criticize and give to suggestions to where the party should go.  
    The treaty of Versailles had nothing to do with Wilson? WTF? POTUS has nothing to do with the treaty despite the US entry while he’s president and his entry of US forces wins the war? Yea, send me some books so I can see how you became so misinformed.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • mcgruff10 said:
    Ghandi could have been elected to the us and world war 1 would have still happened because Europe 1914 had literally nothing to do with the US.  Princip is still killing Franz Ferdinand regardless of an election in 1912. 
    The treaty of Versailles had nothing to do with Wilson.  Dude do you need me to send you a few books on world war 1?  

    I ve been voting blue since 1996 so I don’t understand this blind alliegiance to the Democratic Party. It is ok to criticize and give to suggestions to where the party should go.  
    Do you think the Iraq war happens too under a Gore Administration? Or 9/11? Or the Medicaid donut hole?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • dignindignin Posts: 9,337
    Voting 3rd party is ridiculous.

    It's only going to help Trump.

    Even if you disagree with Warren, Biden or Sanders on policy, at least they aren't an embarrassment or a threat to your country.

    And if we are to believe some people, there is no way they are going to pass legislation anyways because of a divided country and Congress. So you have nothing to be worried about there.

    But at least there will be an adult in the oval office.
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 28,614
    edited October 2019
    Correct, Wilson had his 14 points but Britain and France wanted some revenge and punish Germany and the rest of the Central Powers hence the reason why the Treaty of Versailles was used as opposed to Wilson's 14 points.  Wilson's 14 points wanted to forgive, forget and try to move on while making the world a better place.  (Although they did keep the League of Nations around.)  Do you want me to send you the power point I used for the past 18 years?  I usually have my students pick which treaty is better then discuss why France and Britain picked the treaty of Versailles over the 14 Points.  Let me know.
    Post edited by mcgruff10 on
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mcgruff10 said:
    Correct, Wilson had his 14 points but Britain and France wanted some revenge and punish Germany and the rest of the Central Powers hence the reason why the Treaty of Versailles was used as opposed to Wilson's 14 points.  Wilson's 14 points wanted to forgive, forget and try to move on while making the world a better place.  (Although they did keep the League of Nations around.)  Do you want me to send you the power point I used for the past 18 years?  I usually have my students pick which treaty is better then discuss why France and Britain picked the treaty of Versailles over the 14 Points.  Let me know.
    Who were the four western powers who signed the treaty of Versailles? Who was POTUS for the US during that time? A far cry from “had nothing to do with the treaty,” wouldn’t you say? Or does your PowerPoint show Wilson playing golf or relaxing on a beach?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 28,614
    mcgruff10 said:
    Correct, Wilson had his 14 points but Britain and France wanted some revenge and punish Germany and the rest of the Central Powers hence the reason why the Treaty of Versailles was used as opposed to Wilson's 14 points.  Wilson's 14 points wanted to forgive, forget and try to move on while making the world a better place.  (Although they did keep the League of Nations around.)  Do you want me to send you the power point I used for the past 18 years?  I usually have my students pick which treaty is better then discuss why France and Britain picked the treaty of Versailles over the 14 Points.  Let me know.
    Who were the four western powers who signed the treaty of Versailles? Who was POTUS for the US during that time? A far cry from “had nothing to do with the treaty,” wouldn’t you say? Or does your PowerPoint show Wilson playing golf or relaxing on a beach?
    Yeah Wilson was for his 14 points but not the treaty of Versailles. Blame Britain and France on the treaty of Versailles, not the US.  

    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,488
    mcgruff10 said:
    Ghandi could have been elected to the us and world war 1 would have still happened because Europe 1914 had literally nothing to do with the US.  Princip is still killing Franz Ferdinand regardless of an election in 1912. 
    The treaty of Versailles had nothing to do with Wilson.  Dude do you need me to send you a few books on world war 1?  

    I ve been voting blue since 1996 so I don’t understand this blind alliegiance to the Democratic Party. It is ok to criticize and give to suggestions to where the party should go.  
    Do you think the Iraq war happens too under a Gore Administration? Or 9/11? Or the Medicaid donut hole?
    Wait - so you think 9/11 doesn’t happen during Gore? What about the WTC bombing during Clinton? What was magical about Gore?
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mcgruff10 said:
    Ghandi could have been elected to the us and world war 1 would have still happened because Europe 1914 had literally nothing to do with the US.  Princip is still killing Franz Ferdinand regardless of an election in 1912. 
    The treaty of Versailles had nothing to do with Wilson.  Dude do you need me to send you a few books on world war 1?  

    I ve been voting blue since 1996 so I don’t understand this blind alliegiance to the Democratic Party. It is ok to criticize and give to suggestions to where the party should go.  
    Do you think the Iraq war happens too under a Gore Administration? Or 9/11? Or the Medicaid donut hole?
    Wait - so you think 9/11 doesn’t happen during Gore? What about the WTC bombing during Clinton? What was magical about Gore?
    Maybe he would have reacted and acted differently had he read the PDB that warned of an attack utilizing commercial airlines. But we’ll never know because of those Nader voters.
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

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  • mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Correct, Wilson had his 14 points but Britain and France wanted some revenge and punish Germany and the rest of the Central Powers hence the reason why the Treaty of Versailles was used as opposed to Wilson's 14 points.  Wilson's 14 points wanted to forgive, forget and try to move on while making the world a better place.  (Although they did keep the League of Nations around.)  Do you want me to send you the power point I used for the past 18 years?  I usually have my students pick which treaty is better then discuss why France and Britain picked the treaty of Versailles over the 14 Points.  Let me know.
    Who were the four western powers who signed the treaty of Versailles? Who was POTUS for the US during that time? A far cry from “had nothing to do with the treaty,” wouldn’t you say? Or does your PowerPoint show Wilson playing golf or relaxing on a beach?
    Yeah Wilson was for his 14 points but not the treaty of Versailles. Blame Britain and France on the treaty of Versailles, not the US.  

    I wasn’t placing blame but pointing out that the US under Wilson was a party to the treaty of Versailles and that things might have been different had Teddy not run as a third party, leading to Wilson being POTUS. You then claimed Wilson had nothing to do with the treaty of Versailles and offered to send me some books. But like 9/11, we’ll never know because of third party votes. The US, under Wilson, was at the table and being at the table is a far cry from “having nothing to do with the treaty.”
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  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 28,614
    mcgruff10 said:
    Ghandi could have been elected to the us and world war 1 would have still happened because Europe 1914 had literally nothing to do with the US.  Princip is still killing Franz Ferdinand regardless of an election in 1912. 
    The treaty of Versailles had nothing to do with Wilson.  Dude do you need me to send you a few books on world war 1?  

    I ve been voting blue since 1996 so I don’t understand this blind alliegiance to the Democratic Party. It is ok to criticize and give to suggestions to where the party should go.  
    Do you think the Iraq war happens too under a Gore Administration? Or 9/11? Or the Medicaid donut hole?
    Wait - so you think 9/11 doesn’t happen during Gore? What about the WTC bombing during Clinton? What was magical about Gore?
    Maybe he would have reacted and acted differently had he read the PDB that warned of an attack utilizing commercial airlines. But we’ll never know because of those Nader voters.
    stop blaming Nader.  Gore couldn't carry his home state of Tennessee and 200,000 dems voted against him in florida.   
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mcgruff10 said:
    Ghandi could have been elected to the us and world war 1 would have still happened because Europe 1914 had literally nothing to do with the US.  Princip is still killing Franz Ferdinand regardless of an election in 1912. 
    The treaty of Versailles had nothing to do with Wilson.  Dude do you need me to send you a few books on world war 1?  

    I ve been voting blue since 1996 so I don’t understand this blind alliegiance to the Democratic Party. It is ok to criticize and give to suggestions to where the party should go.  
    Do you think the Iraq war happens too under a Gore Administration? Or 9/11? Or the Medicaid donut hole?
    Wait - so you think 9/11 doesn’t happen during Gore? What about the WTC bombing during Clinton? What was magical about Gore?
    Yea, the 1993 WTC bombing happened under Clinton and it was the Clinton Administration that tracked down those responsible and tried and convicted them. Your point being?
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  • mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Ghandi could have been elected to the us and world war 1 would have still happened because Europe 1914 had literally nothing to do with the US.  Princip is still killing Franz Ferdinand regardless of an election in 1912. 
    The treaty of Versailles had nothing to do with Wilson.  Dude do you need me to send you a few books on world war 1?  

    I ve been voting blue since 1996 so I don’t understand this blind alliegiance to the Democratic Party. It is ok to criticize and give to suggestions to where the party should go.  
    Do you think the Iraq war happens too under a Gore Administration? Or 9/11? Or the Medicaid donut hole?
    Wait - so you think 9/11 doesn’t happen during Gore? What about the WTC bombing during Clinton? What was magical about Gore?
    Maybe he would have reacted and acted differently had he read the PDB that warned of an attack utilizing commercial airlines. But we’ll never know because of those Nader voters.
    stop blaming Nader.  Gore couldn't carry his home state of Tennessee and 200,000 dems voted against him in florida.   
    Gore lost FL by 537 votes, if you believe the recount and SCOTUS. If 537 Nader voters would have voted dem, oh how things could have been different. But you know, war and oil and fracking are better for the environment. Dumb.
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  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 28,614
    mickeyrat said:
    voted in every election since 88.

    not one of the candidates EVER courted my vote. That of registered independent. Not one. ALWAYS play to the base.

    Independents represent approx 45% of the electorate. WE have the power.
    You are obviously a dumb shit.  Oh and ignorant  ;)
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 29,825
    dignin said:
    Voting 3rd party is ridiculous.

    It's only going to help Trump.

    Even if you disagree with Warren, Biden or Sanders on policy, at least they aren't an embarrassment or a threat to your country.

    And if we are to believe some people, there is no way they are going to pass legislation anyways because of a divided country and Congress. So you have nothing to be worried about there.

    But at least there will be an adult in the oval office.
    Depends on the third party, as to whether it helps or hurts Trump.  As of now,  is there even a candidate? What if it's Weldon and he takes R votes? 

    The WW1 argument that it doesn't happen if TR doesn't run is a huge stretch.  The US was meaningless in a geopolitical sense in the early 20th. That was an Old World war, steeped in the nationalism movement. 
  • mrussel1 said:
    dignin said:
    Voting 3rd party is ridiculous.

    It's only going to help Trump.

    Even if you disagree with Warren, Biden or Sanders on policy, at least they aren't an embarrassment or a threat to your country.

    And if we are to believe some people, there is no way they are going to pass legislation anyways because of a divided country and Congress. So you have nothing to be worried about there.

    But at least there will be an adult in the oval office.
    Depends on the third party, as to whether it helps or hurts Trump.  As of now,  is there even a candidate? What if it's Weldon and he takes R votes? 

    The WW1 argument that it doesn't happen if TR doesn't run is a huge stretch.  The US was meaningless in a geopolitical sense in the early 20th. That was an Old World war, steeped in the nationalism movement. 
    Taft being POTUS instead of Wilson May have resulted in a different outcome. Not that it would have prevented it but the US may have entered earlier, or not, or not been involved, or not, or negotiated Versailles from a different position, or not. My argument remains, that voting third party as a protest against the party you most align with does more harm to those cause you care about than good. But hey, put Team Trump Treason in office for four more years because the dem nominee is “too far left.” And if you’re willing to do that, then you more closely align with Team Trump Treason and his repub party because you’re (you’re in the general sense before someone accuses me of accusing them of being a Team Trump Treason deplorable) more okay with that outcome.
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  • darwinstheorydarwinstheory LaPorte, IN Posts: 6,622
    edited October 2019
    mcgruff10 said:
    Ghandi could have been elected to the us and world war 1 would have still happened because Europe 1914 had literally nothing to do with the US.  Princip is still killing Franz Ferdinand regardless of an election in 1912. 
    The treaty of Versailles had nothing to do with Wilson.  Dude do you need me to send you a few books on world war 1?  

    I ve been voting blue since 1996 so I don’t understand this blind alliegiance to the Democratic Party. It is ok to criticize and give to suggestions to where the party should go.  
    You've been told to sit down and shut up, dumb shit. :lol:
    "A smart monkey doesn't monkey around with another monkey's monkey" - Darwin's Theory
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,488
    mcgruff10 said:
    Ghandi could have been elected to the us and world war 1 would have still happened because Europe 1914 had literally nothing to do with the US.  Princip is still killing Franz Ferdinand regardless of an election in 1912. 
    The treaty of Versailles had nothing to do with Wilson.  Dude do you need me to send you a few books on world war 1?  

    I ve been voting blue since 1996 so I don’t understand this blind alliegiance to the Democratic Party. It is ok to criticize and give to suggestions to where the party should go.  
    Do you think the Iraq war happens too under a Gore Administration? Or 9/11? Or the Medicaid donut hole?
    Wait - so you think 9/11 doesn’t happen during Gore? What about the WTC bombing during Clinton? What was magical about Gore?
    Yea, the 1993 WTC bombing happened under Clinton and it was the Clinton Administration that tracked down those responsible and tried and convicted them. Your point being?
    My point being you saying 9/11 doesn’t happen if gore is president is stupid.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 39,299



    By Editorial Board
    October 27 at 7:27 PM ET
    MOBILE POLLING places that popped up on college campuses and other population-dense areas were “the most effective program we had,” Dana DeBeauvoir, the chief elections official in Travis County, Tex., told the New York Times. That would explain why Texas Republicans shut them down.

    The Times reported last week that, as Texans head to the polls, it will be substantially harder for college students to vote. A new state law required all polling places to remain open for the state’s full 12-day early-voting period. Localities could not afford to keep the pop-up sites open that long, so colleges in Austin, Brownsville, Fort Worth and elsewhere have had to close them. That guarantees lower turnout among people whom Republicans do no want voting: Democratic-leaning students.

    Early voting is meant to enable more people to vote: Shift workers, for example, who cannot wait in line at a polling place on a Tuesday can still have a voice. Texas’s law turns that vote-enabling system into a vote-suppressing weapon. Republicans throughout the country have embraced voter suppression as a strategy for party survival, and this is one more sad example.

    In Florida, Republicans have tried repeatedly to end early voting on state campuses. They also tried to circumscribe the reach of a law that allows former felons to vote, even after voters overwhelmingly approved the law in a referendum. Republicans in New Hampshire, North Carolina, Tennessee and Wisconsin have made voting difficult for students in various ways; Republicans often use voter identification laws to exclude student voters, rejecting forms of ID that college students are likely to have. Typically, the pretext is the need to block in-person voter fraud — a practically nonexistent problem in the United States.

    article continues......

    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mcgruff10 said:
    Ghandi could have been elected to the us and world war 1 would have still happened because Europe 1914 had literally nothing to do with the US.  Princip is still killing Franz Ferdinand regardless of an election in 1912. 
    The treaty of Versailles had nothing to do with Wilson.  Dude do you need me to send you a few books on world war 1?  

    I ve been voting blue since 1996 so I don’t understand this blind alliegiance to the Democratic Party. It is ok to criticize and give to suggestions to where the party should go.  
    Do you think the Iraq war happens too under a Gore Administration? Or 9/11? Or the Medicaid donut hole?
    Wait - so you think 9/11 doesn’t happen during Gore? What about the WTC bombing during Clinton? What was magical about Gore?
    Yea, the 1993 WTC bombing happened under Clinton and it was the Clinton Administration that tracked down those responsible and tried and convicted them. Your point being?
    My point being you saying 9/11 doesn’t happen if gore is president is stupid.

    mcgruff10 said:
    Ghandi could have been elected to the us and world war 1 would have still happened because Europe 1914 had literally nothing to do with the US.  Princip is still killing Franz Ferdinand regardless of an election in 1912. 
    The treaty of Versailles had nothing to do with Wilson.  Dude do you need me to send you a few books on world war 1?  

    I ve been voting blue since 1996 so I don’t understand this blind alliegiance to the Democratic Party. It is ok to criticize and give to suggestions to where the party should go.  
    Do you think the Iraq war happens too under a Gore Administration? Or 9/11? Or the Medicaid donut hole?
    Wait - so you think 9/11 doesn’t happen during Gore? What about the WTC bombing during Clinton? What was magical about Gore?
    Yea, the 1993 WTC bombing happened under Clinton and it was the Clinton Administration that tracked down those responsible and tried and convicted them. Your point being?
    My point being you saying 9/11 doesn’t happen if gore is president is stupid.
    Did I say that? Most educated people understand the definition of “maybe.” But you can call me stupid. I’ll add it to the list. Twice. Cue HFD.
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  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,488
    mcgruff10 said:
    Ghandi could have been elected to the us and world war 1 would have still happened because Europe 1914 had literally nothing to do with the US.  Princip is still killing Franz Ferdinand regardless of an election in 1912. 
    The treaty of Versailles had nothing to do with Wilson.  Dude do you need me to send you a few books on world war 1?  

    I ve been voting blue since 1996 so I don’t understand this blind alliegiance to the Democratic Party. It is ok to criticize and give to suggestions to where the party should go.  
    Do you think the Iraq war happens too under a Gore Administration? Or 9/11? Or the Medicaid donut hole?
    Wait - so you think 9/11 doesn’t happen during Gore? What about the WTC bombing during Clinton? What was magical about Gore?
    Yea, the 1993 WTC bombing happened under Clinton and it was the Clinton Administration that tracked down those responsible and tried and convicted them. Your point being?
    My point being you saying 9/11 doesn’t happen if gore is president is stupid.

    mcgruff10 said:
    Ghandi could have been elected to the us and world war 1 would have still happened because Europe 1914 had literally nothing to do with the US.  Princip is still killing Franz Ferdinand regardless of an election in 1912. 
    The treaty of Versailles had nothing to do with Wilson.  Dude do you need me to send you a few books on world war 1?  

    I ve been voting blue since 1996 so I don’t understand this blind alliegiance to the Democratic Party. It is ok to criticize and give to suggestions to where the party should go.  
    Do you think the Iraq war happens too under a Gore Administration? Or 9/11? Or the Medicaid donut hole?
    Wait - so you think 9/11 doesn’t happen during Gore? What about the WTC bombing during Clinton? What was magical about Gore?
    Yea, the 1993 WTC bombing happened under Clinton and it was the Clinton Administration that tracked down those responsible and tried and convicted them. Your point being?
    My point being you saying 9/11 doesn’t happen if gore is president is stupid.
    Did I say that? Most educated people understand the definition of “maybe.” But you can call me stupid. I’ll add it to the list. Twice. Cue HFD.
    You never said "maybe"  but go ahead and out it in quotes and pretend you did.

    And again, the STATEMENT that 9/11 doesn't happen if Gore is president is a stupid STATEMENT.  Not calling you anything.  
    hippiemom = goodness
  • cincybearcat said: koi
    mcgruff10 said:
    Ghandi could have been elected to the us and world war 1 would have still happened because Europe 1914 had literally nothing to do with the US.  Princip is still killing Franz Ferdinand regardless of an election in 1912. 
    The treaty of Versailles had nothing to do with Wilson.  Dude do you need me to send you a few books on world war 1?  

    I ve been voting blue since 1996 so I don’t understand this blind alliegiance to the Democratic Party. It is ok to criticize and give to suggestions to where the party should go.  
    Do you think the Iraq war happens too under a Gore Administration? Or 9/11? Or the Medicaid donut hole?
    Wait - so you think 9/11 doesn’t happen during Gore? What about the WTC bombing during Clinton? What was magical about Gore?
    Maybe he would have reacted and acted differently had he read the PDB that warned of an attack utilizing commercial airlines. But we’ll never know because of those Nader voters.
    @cincybearcat see that first word that begins with an “M?” What is it? Maybe you were confused by “he,” which in this context is Gore. Try to follow along with the stupid statements, would you please?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR;

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

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  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 39,299
    why?
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • cincybearcatcincybearcat Posts: 16,488
    cincybearcat said: koi
    mcgruff10 said:
    Ghandi could have been elected to the us and world war 1 would have still happened because Europe 1914 had literally nothing to do with the US.  Princip is still killing Franz Ferdinand regardless of an election in 1912. 
    The treaty of Versailles had nothing to do with Wilson.  Dude do you need me to send you a few books on world war 1?  

    I ve been voting blue since 1996 so I don’t understand this blind alliegiance to the Democratic Party. It is ok to criticize and give to suggestions to where the party should go.  
    Do you think the Iraq war happens too under a Gore Administration? Or 9/11? Or the Medicaid donut hole?
    Wait - so you think 9/11 doesn’t happen during Gore? What about the WTC bombing during Clinton? What was magical about Gore?
    Maybe he would have reacted and acted differently had he read the PDB that warned of an attack utilizing commercial airlines. But we’ll never know because of those Nader voters.
    @cincybearcat see that first word that begins with an “M?” What is it? Maybe you were confused by “he,” which in this context is Gore. Try to follow along with the stupid statements, would you please?
    hmmm didn't notice that response since you responded ot the same message with a different response.  Very sorry.  Don't appreciate your immediate antagonistic response and then this last one either though.  But you keep being you if you want to. Hugs and kisses.
    hippiemom = goodness
  • Lerxst1992Lerxst1992 Posts: 6,752
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Ghandi could have been elected to the us and world war 1 would have still happened because Europe 1914 had literally nothing to do with the US.  Princip is still killing Franz Ferdinand regardless of an election in 1912. 
    The treaty of Versailles had nothing to do with Wilson.  Dude do you need me to send you a few books on world war 1?  

    I ve been voting blue since 1996 so I don’t understand this blind alliegiance to the Democratic Party. It is ok to criticize and give to suggestions to where the party should go.  
    Do you think the Iraq war happens too under a Gore Administration? Or 9/11? Or the Medicaid donut hole?
    Wait - so you think 9/11 doesn’t happen during Gore? What about the WTC bombing during Clinton? What was magical about Gore?
    Maybe he would have reacted and acted differently had he read the PDB that warned of an attack utilizing commercial airlines. But we’ll never know because of those Nader voters.
    stop blaming Nader.  Gore couldn't carry his home state of Tennessee and 200,000 dems voted against him in florida.   


    Might as well blame that Edward Louis Severson fella because he told me on 8.23.2000 to vote for Nader.
  • mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Ghandi could have been elected to the us and world war 1 would have still happened because Europe 1914 had literally nothing to do with the US.  Princip is still killing Franz Ferdinand regardless of an election in 1912. 
    The treaty of Versailles had nothing to do with Wilson.  Dude do you need me to send you a few books on world war 1?  

    I ve been voting blue since 1996 so I don’t understand this blind alliegiance to the Democratic Party. It is ok to criticize and give to suggestions to where the party should go.  
    Do you think the Iraq war happens too under a Gore Administration? Or 9/11? Or the Medicaid donut hole?
    Wait - so you think 9/11 doesn’t happen during Gore? What about the WTC bombing during Clinton? What was magical about Gore?
    Maybe he would have reacted and acted differently had he read the PDB that warned of an attack utilizing commercial airlines. But we’ll never know because of those Nader voters.
    stop blaming Nader.  Gore couldn't carry his home state of Tennessee and 200,000 dems voted against him in florida.   
    Might as well blame that Edward Louis Severson fella because he told me on 8.23.2000 to vote for Nader.
    I was 16 at the time, didn't follow politics, and only knew of Nader through Pearl Jam, which led to this conversation with my father:

    Me: Are you going to vote for Ralph Nader?
    Dad: Of course not. Only idiots would vote for him.
    Me: Pearl Jam's voting for him.
    Dad: Exactly
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024Philly 2

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • dignindignin Posts: 9,337
    mcgruff10 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Ghandi could have been elected to the us and world war 1 would have still happened because Europe 1914 had literally nothing to do with the US.  Princip is still killing Franz Ferdinand regardless of an election in 1912. 
    The treaty of Versailles had nothing to do with Wilson.  Dude do you need me to send you a few books on world war 1?  

    I ve been voting blue since 1996 so I don’t understand this blind alliegiance to the Democratic Party. It is ok to criticize and give to suggestions to where the party should go.  
    Do you think the Iraq war happens too under a Gore Administration? Or 9/11? Or the Medicaid donut hole?
    Wait - so you think 9/11 doesn’t happen during Gore? What about the WTC bombing during Clinton? What was magical about Gore?
    Maybe he would have reacted and acted differently had he read the PDB that warned of an attack utilizing commercial airlines. But we’ll never know because of those Nader voters.
    stop blaming Nader.  Gore couldn't carry his home state of Tennessee and 200,000 dems voted against him in florida.   
    Might as well blame that Edward Louis Severson fella because he told me on 8.23.2000 to vote for Nader.
    I was 16 at the time, didn't follow politics, and only knew of Nader through Pearl Jam, which led to this conversation with my father:

    Me: Are you going to vote for Ralph Nader?
    Dad: Of course not. Only idiots would vote for him.
    Me: Pearl Jam's voting for him.
    Dad: Exactly
    Ha!
  • HughFreakingDillonHughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 37,350
    mcgruff10 said:
    Ghandi could have been elected to the us and world war 1 would have still happened because Europe 1914 had literally nothing to do with the US.  Princip is still killing Franz Ferdinand regardless of an election in 1912. 
    The treaty of Versailles had nothing to do with Wilson.  Dude do you need me to send you a few books on world war 1?  

    I ve been voting blue since 1996 so I don’t understand this blind alliegiance to the Democratic Party. It is ok to criticize and give to suggestions to where the party should go.  
    Do you think the Iraq war happens too under a Gore Administration? Or 9/11? Or the Medicaid donut hole?
    Wait - so you think 9/11 doesn’t happen during Gore? What about the WTC bombing during Clinton? What was magical about Gore?
    Yea, the 1993 WTC bombing happened under Clinton and it was the Clinton Administration that tracked down those responsible and tried and convicted them. Your point being?
    My point being you saying 9/11 doesn’t happen if gore is president is stupid.

    mcgruff10 said:
    Ghandi could have been elected to the us and world war 1 would have still happened because Europe 1914 had literally nothing to do with the US.  Princip is still killing Franz Ferdinand regardless of an election in 1912. 
    The treaty of Versailles had nothing to do with Wilson.  Dude do you need me to send you a few books on world war 1?  

    I ve been voting blue since 1996 so I don’t understand this blind alliegiance to the Democratic Party. It is ok to criticize and give to suggestions to where the party should go.  
    Do you think the Iraq war happens too under a Gore Administration? Or 9/11? Or the Medicaid donut hole?
    Wait - so you think 9/11 doesn’t happen during Gore? What about the WTC bombing during Clinton? What was magical about Gore?
    Yea, the 1993 WTC bombing happened under Clinton and it was the Clinton Administration that tracked down those responsible and tried and convicted them. Your point being?
    My point being you saying 9/11 doesn’t happen if gore is president is stupid.
    Did I say that? Most educated people understand the definition of “maybe.” But you can call me stupid. I’ll add it to the list. Twice. Cue HFD.
    pardon?
    "Oh Canada...you're beautiful when you're drunk"
    -EV  8/14/93




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