The all-purpose heavy duty Climate Chaos thread (sprinkled with hope).

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Comments

  • mickeyrat
    mickeyrat Posts: 44,385

    6 part series
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I've been a big proponent to Alaskas conservation of the fishing industry.  When something like this happens and they weren't expecting it is a cause for alarm.

    Snow crab have literally disappeared...

    This happened in the 80's from overfishing the king crab but nothing like this I can remember.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/08/21/alaska-crab-climate/

    That is sad, indeed.

    I wonder what happened?  The article suggests, "The theories are many. The crabs moved into Russian waters. They are dead because predators got them. They are dead because they ate each other. The crabs scuttled off the continental shelf and scientists just didn’t see them. Alien abduction."
    Gotta be alien abduction, don't you think? :tongue:               
    I hope they just moved to different waters.

    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    brianlux said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I've been a big proponent to Alaskas conservation of the fishing industry.  When something like this happens and they weren't expecting it is a cause for alarm.

    Snow crab have literally disappeared...

    This happened in the 80's from overfishing the king crab but nothing like this I can remember.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/08/21/alaska-crab-climate/

    That is sad, indeed.

    I wonder what happened?  The article suggests, "The theories are many. The crabs moved into Russian waters. They are dead because predators got them. They are dead because they ate each other. The crabs scuttled off the continental shelf and scientists just didn’t see them. Alien abduction."
    Gotta be alien abduction, don't you think? :tongue:               
    I hope they just moved to different waters.

    They should have been able to follow the biomass though.  That is a lot of crab that just disappears.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    tempo_n_groove said:
    brianlux said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I've been a big proponent to Alaskas conservation of the fishing industry.  When something like this happens and they weren't expecting it is a cause for alarm.

    Snow crab have literally disappeared...

    This happened in the 80's from overfishing the king crab but nothing like this I can remember.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/08/21/alaska-crab-climate/

    That is sad, indeed.

    I wonder what happened?  The article suggests, "The theories are many. The crabs moved into Russian waters. They are dead because predators got them. They are dead because they ate each other. The crabs scuttled off the continental shelf and scientists just didn’t see them. Alien abduction."
    Gotta be alien abduction, don't you think? :tongue:               
    I hope they just moved to different waters.

    They should have been able to follow the biomass though.  That is a lot of crab that just disappears.

    Sounds like the cause of them disappearing- whatever it is- is some kind of serious ecosystem imbalance.  Not all such imbalances are human caused, but knowing our track record that way, it is highly concerning.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    brianlux said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    brianlux said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I've been a big proponent to Alaskas conservation of the fishing industry.  When something like this happens and they weren't expecting it is a cause for alarm.

    Snow crab have literally disappeared...

    This happened in the 80's from overfishing the king crab but nothing like this I can remember.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/08/21/alaska-crab-climate/

    That is sad, indeed.

    I wonder what happened?  The article suggests, "The theories are many. The crabs moved into Russian waters. They are dead because predators got them. They are dead because they ate each other. The crabs scuttled off the continental shelf and scientists just didn’t see them. Alien abduction."
    Gotta be alien abduction, don't you think? :tongue:               
    I hope they just moved to different waters.

    They should have been able to follow the biomass though.  That is a lot of crab that just disappears.

    Sounds like the cause of them disappearing- whatever it is- is some kind of serious ecosystem imbalance.  Not all such imbalances are human caused, but knowing our track record that way, it is highly concerning.
    When the King crab disappeared we knew.

    When the pollock and salmon numbers got low, we knew.

    This could be very bad.  It has me wondering about the plankton and fresh water movement in the ocean and if that has an effect?  Warming waters?

    We have sooo much information on things but can't find a smoking gun?  Was there a damn volcano eruption?
  • Zod
    Zod Posts: 10,896
    I watch the show the Deadliest catch.   I missed the days when it was more reality, where now it's scripted, and full of fake situations.

    One of the previous seasons made the semi fake story line about Russia getting all the crab, and most of it felt scripted, but at one point they did show what was supposed to be Russian crabbing boats, and they looked way bigger and organized than the Alaskan boats.

    Is it possible Russia overfished the crab industry?  They must migrated across the border fairly regularly.   Similar to the way here in BC when we have fishing limits and what not, but there's nothing to stop American fishing boats from fishing them when they're in US waters (so hard to limit quotas, when other countries can fish 'em all out in there waters).

    Just a thought.  No idea how the Russian quote system works or if there is one.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    tempo_n_groove said:
    brianlux said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    brianlux said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    I've been a big proponent to Alaskas conservation of the fishing industry.  When something like this happens and they weren't expecting it is a cause for alarm.

    Snow crab have literally disappeared...

    This happened in the 80's from overfishing the king crab but nothing like this I can remember.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/08/21/alaska-crab-climate/

    That is sad, indeed.

    I wonder what happened?  The article suggests, "The theories are many. The crabs moved into Russian waters. They are dead because predators got them. They are dead because they ate each other. The crabs scuttled off the continental shelf and scientists just didn’t see them. Alien abduction."
    Gotta be alien abduction, don't you think? :tongue:               
    I hope they just moved to different waters.

    They should have been able to follow the biomass though.  That is a lot of crab that just disappears.

    Sounds like the cause of them disappearing- whatever it is- is some kind of serious ecosystem imbalance.  Not all such imbalances are human caused, but knowing our track record that way, it is highly concerning.
    When the King crab disappeared we knew.

    When the pollock and salmon numbers got low, we knew.

    This could be very bad.  It has me wondering about the plankton and fresh water movement in the ocean and if that has an effect?  Warming waters?

    We have sooo much information on things but can't find a smoking gun?  Was there a damn volcano eruption?

    So many things to factor- changing currents, cahnging climate, acidification, too much micro plastic?  Probably a combination of a bunch of things.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    Zod said:
    I watch the show the Deadliest catch.   I missed the days when it was more reality, where now it's scripted, and full of fake situations.

    One of the previous seasons made the semi fake story line about Russia getting all the crab, and most of it felt scripted, but at one point they did show what was supposed to be Russian crabbing boats, and they looked way bigger and organized than the Alaskan boats.

    Is it possible Russia overfished the crab industry?  They must migrated across the border fairly regularly.   Similar to the way here in BC when we have fishing limits and what not, but there's nothing to stop American fishing boats from fishing them when they're in US waters (so hard to limit quotas, when other countries can fish 'em all out in there waters).

    Just a thought.  No idea how the Russian quote system works or if there is one.

    They keep so much information hidden, it's hard to know, but certainly that could be the case.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    Zod said:
    I watch the show the Deadliest catch.   I missed the days when it was more reality, where now it's scripted, and full of fake situations.

    One of the previous seasons made the semi fake story line about Russia getting all the crab, and most of it felt scripted, but at one point they did show what was supposed to be Russian crabbing boats, and they looked way bigger and organized than the Alaskan boats.

    Is it possible Russia overfished the crab industry?  They must migrated across the border fairly regularly.   Similar to the way here in BC when we have fishing limits and what not, but there's nothing to stop American fishing boats from fishing them when they're in US waters (so hard to limit quotas, when other countries can fish 'em all out in there waters).

    Just a thought.  No idea how the Russian quote system works or if there is one.
    brianlux said:
    Zod said:
    I watch the show the Deadliest catch.   I missed the days when it was more reality, where now it's scripted, and full of fake situations.

    One of the previous seasons made the semi fake story line about Russia getting all the crab, and most of it felt scripted, but at one point they did show what was supposed to be Russian crabbing boats, and they looked way bigger and organized than the Alaskan boats.

    Is it possible Russia overfished the crab industry?  They must migrated across the border fairly regularly.   Similar to the way here in BC when we have fishing limits and what not, but there's nothing to stop American fishing boats from fishing them when they're in US waters (so hard to limit quotas, when other countries can fish 'em all out in there waters).

    Just a thought.  No idea how the Russian quote system works or if there is one.

    They keep so much information hidden, it's hard to know, but certainly that could be the case.
    For years there was a worry that Russia would over harvest the crab and plummet prices.  With all their sanctions right now I don't know who would buy their crab?!?

    It was well known that their waters had an abundance of crab so they might have migrated that way too.  My cousin worked on a Russian trawler and the amount of crab they caught was staggering.
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,860
    mickeyrat said:
    I bet you're fun at parties

    How YOU doin, blue eyes?
  • Lerxst1992
    Lerxst1992 Posts: 7,860
    brianlux said:
    Lerxst1992 said:



     
    Gas-powered muscle cars drive into the sunset, turn electric
    By TOM KRISHER
    Today


    One reason for the industry shift is that electric vehicles are simply faster off the starting line. Their handling is typically better, too, because their heavy batteries create a low center of gravity.


    and more deaths,
    that, they forgot to mention…

    EVs are 30%heavier, faster acceleration, less safe, destroy roads faster, have batteries that are toxic to the earth and in current tech, run on fossil fuels. Getting “average” drivers to fall in love with EVs exceptional acceleration is not good for the environment nor our safety. Focus should be on replacing coal and nat gas power plants with wind and solar, then bring on widespread use of EVs, once the battery problems are fixed. Doing it before the power generation tech is ready is bad for the environment, when considering all factors such as road replacement, batteries and coal fired plants. Now we all can pretend to be Max Verstappen while driving to stop and shop? Get outta my way. Fast.

    My frustration is that EVs take up a lot of attention in the important push to improve the climate, including some of  the new incentives signed into law. EVs monopolize discussions in places like this. The funding that EVs have taken away from the solar and wind subsidies in the new law is a net negative for the environment, that money should have went to generating power to replace gas and coal. How can something that made Musk the wealthiest human be good for the planet?

    People who currently drive SUVs are falling in love with the idea of new electric F150. So this desire to “upsell” and “upbuy” to performance cars and trucks is detrimental to the cause. Muscle cars exasperate the problem.

    The biggest problem is that we car a car-culture society and are hell-bent on not giving up the lifestyle that dictates that everyone has their own car and everyone drives alone.  Besides overpopulation, I would rate that- along with suburbia- as two of our biggest obstacles to overcoming environmental issues. 
    Electric vehicles are a bandage.  They may be better than gas powered cars in some ways, but better the way scraping a vinyl record with cat claws is better than scraping it with a knife.


    Yes, America does not have realistic public transport so we are stuck with cars. But with the new climate law, too much is being spent on EVs. It’s an Elon Bailout. EVs don’t help much in places that generate electricity with coal. And most places currently use gas for generation, so,it’s swapping one fossil fuel for another, while bringing battery issues into the equation. In Cali, EVs  do make a lot of sense as coal is less than one percent of electric generation. The current focus should be to maximize solar and wind generation asap, then figure out if EVs are even worth the effort, with their heavy and toxic batteries.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    edited August 2022
    Lerxst1992 said:
    brianlux said:
    Lerxst1992 said:



     
    Gas-powered muscle cars drive into the sunset, turn electric
    By TOM KRISHER
    Today


    One reason for the industry shift is that electric vehicles are simply faster off the starting line. Their handling is typically better, too, because their heavy batteries create a low center of gravity.


    and more deaths,
    that, they forgot to mention…

    EVs are 30%heavier, faster acceleration, less safe, destroy roads faster, have batteries that are toxic to the earth and in current tech, run on fossil fuels. Getting “average” drivers to fall in love with EVs exceptional acceleration is not good for the environment nor our safety. Focus should be on replacing coal and nat gas power plants with wind and solar, then bring on widespread use of EVs, once the battery problems are fixed. Doing it before the power generation tech is ready is bad for the environment, when considering all factors such as road replacement, batteries and coal fired plants. Now we all can pretend to be Max Verstappen while driving to stop and shop? Get outta my way. Fast.

    My frustration is that EVs take up a lot of attention in the important push to improve the climate, including some of  the new incentives signed into law. EVs monopolize discussions in places like this. The funding that EVs have taken away from the solar and wind subsidies in the new law is a net negative for the environment, that money should have went to generating power to replace gas and coal. How can something that made Musk the wealthiest human be good for the planet?

    People who currently drive SUVs are falling in love with the idea of new electric F150. So this desire to “upsell” and “upbuy” to performance cars and trucks is detrimental to the cause. Muscle cars exasperate the problem.

    The biggest problem is that we car a car-culture society and are hell-bent on not giving up the lifestyle that dictates that everyone has their own car and everyone drives alone.  Besides overpopulation, I would rate that- along with suburbia- as two of our biggest obstacles to overcoming environmental issues. 
    Electric vehicles are a bandage.  They may be better than gas powered cars in some ways, but better the way scraping a vinyl record with cat claws is better than scraping it with a knife.


    Yes, America does not have realistic public transport so we are stuck with cars. But with the new climate law, too much is being spent on EVs. It’s an Elon Bailout. EVs don’t help much in places that generate electricity with coal. And most places currently use gas for generation, so,it’s swapping one fossil fuel for another, while bringing battery issues into the equation. In Cali, EVs  do make a lot of sense as coal is less than one percent of electric generation. The current focus should be to maximize solar and wind generation asap, then figure out if EVs are even worth the effort, with their heavy and toxic batteries.

    I'm not sure EVs make sense here either, to tell you the truth.  Over the last several years, we have more and more been taxing the limits of our power grid.  We get notices from time to time asking us to limit power uses because the system is being overburdened.  This sometimes cause power outages or rolling black outs.  There are over 14 million automobiles registered in California.  I have to wonder how our electric power grid is going to handle millions upon millions of cars being plugged in every day.  Talk about denial!

    It's the same kind of insanity that is creating this situation which ignores our drought/ water shortage situation:

    This photo shows what is what happening about 25 miles from where I live. Until very recently, what you mostly saw for about 10 miles along U.S. 50 (and stretches laterally much further than that) going though the stretch between Folsom and El Dorado Hills was the rolling hills and oak trees you can see in the background in the photo. Almost all of that now is what you see happening in the foreground and these developments are going up almost literally over night.:
    IMG



    Here's another view. That green space in the background is going away quickly:

    IMG

    This is all sheer madness!



    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    this is concerning. never heard of the "doomsday glacier". 

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/05/world/thwaites-doomsday-glacier-sea-level-climate/index.html
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    this is concerning. never heard of the "doomsday glacier". 

    https://www.cnn.com/2022/09/05/world/thwaites-doomsday-glacier-sea-level-climate/index.html
    This is actually nothing new.  They have been talking about this for a while.  The concern with it melting is adding more fresh water in the ocean which would mess up the salinity and messing up the food chain.  Those plankton and krill are very important to the ecosystem and cycle of life.

    It has been melting for years though so unless it melts all at once I don't see anything catastrophic happening.  Glaciers melt, that is what they do.  If they all melt hen we have a problem but for right now we are holding on.
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 39,473
    well in the article is states that it's breaking away from the sea bed a lot quicker than they originally theorized. and when that happens, sea levels rising several feet around the globe? buh bye Miami/Vancouver/NY/California/etc. 
    By The Time They Figure Out What Went Wrong, We'll Be Sitting On A Beach, Earning Twenty Percent.




  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    well in the article is states that it's breaking away from the sea bed a lot quicker than they originally theorized. and when that happens, sea levels rising several feet around the globe? buh bye Miami/Vancouver/NY/California/etc. 
    It is a doomsday scenario yes but like it says, it's been melting since 1973 when they first started monitoring it.

    I will be purchasing higher level land though, just in case.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    tempo_n_groove said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    well in the article is states that it's breaking away from the sea bed a lot quicker than they originally theorized. and when that happens, sea levels rising several feet around the globe? buh bye Miami/Vancouver/NY/California/etc. 
    It is a doomsday scenario yes but like it says, it's been melting since 1973 when they first started monitoring it.

    I will be purchasing higher level land though, just in case.

    Probably more like a doomsyear or doomsdecade scenario.  I don't think it will happen overnight.  Just a SWAG on my part though.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • tempo_n_groove
    tempo_n_groove Posts: 41,359
    brianlux said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    well in the article is states that it's breaking away from the sea bed a lot quicker than they originally theorized. and when that happens, sea levels rising several feet around the globe? buh bye Miami/Vancouver/NY/California/etc. 
    It is a doomsday scenario yes but like it says, it's been melting since 1973 when they first started monitoring it.

    I will be purchasing higher level land though, just in case.

    Probably more like a doomsyear or doomsdecade scenario.  I don't think it will happen overnight.  Just a SWAG on my part though.
    Exactly.  That isn't going to melt in a damn day and by then the atmosphere may take more of it and create more rain so we don't have 17' of seawater.
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,662
    tempo_n_groove said:
    brianlux said:
    tempo_n_groove said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    well in the article is states that it's breaking away from the sea bed a lot quicker than they originally theorized. and when that happens, sea levels rising several feet around the globe? buh bye Miami/Vancouver/NY/California/etc. 
    It is a doomsday scenario yes but like it says, it's been melting since 1973 when they first started monitoring it.

    I will be purchasing higher level land though, just in case.

    Probably more like a doomsyear or doomsdecade scenario.  I don't think it will happen overnight.  Just a SWAG on my part though.
    Exactly.  That isn't going to melt in a damn day and by then the atmosphere may take more of it and create more rain so we don't have 17' of seawater.

    More rain could be a problem in some place.  Sure would be welcome here though!
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • TJ25487
    TJ25487 Posts: 1,501
    An interesting take on EV's:

    When California asks people to buy electric vehicles, then tells them not to charge the cars, we witness more than fiscal stupidity. The middle class is being forced to shoulder the burden of a haphazard green agenda that squeezes regular Americans in the short term for the sake of achieving foolish long-term energy goals. California’s clumsy attempt to transition to renewable energy is mirrored nationally by the Biden administration.

    Americans are paying higher prices now because of Biden’s regulatory war on fossil fuels. Senior Editor David Harsanyi put it well when he wrote, “Democrats are rigging the market to force you to buy a car that has a 200-mile reach and uses erratic and expensive energy when you already have increasingly efficient models in your driveway and tens of billions of easily accessible barrels of offshore fossil fuels here at home — and much more around the world.”

    “We have centuries worth of the stuff waiting in the ground,” he added. “Which gives us enough time to come up with some better ideas.”

    As David points out, a Berkeley study found over 90 percent of taxpayer subsidies for electric vehicles went to the top income quintile as of 2015. The numbers overall are striking. “Since 2006, U.S. households have received more than $18 billion in federal income tax credits for weatherizing their homes, installing solar panels, buying hybrid and electric vehicles, and other ‘clean energy’ investments,” wrote the authors. “We find that these tax expenditures have gone predominantly to higher-income Americans. The bottom three income quintiles have received about 10% of all credits, while the top quintile has received about 60%.”

    Taxpayers have been funding subsidies for people who can already afford them. Money goes out of their paychecks and into their rich neighbors’ Chinese solar panels. Renewables in general will replace our dependence on OPEC with dependence on China. Alternatively, we could allow Americans to go about business as usual while eliminating excess emissions where it’s affordable (see: carbon capture), improving nuclear technology, and making other energy sources more efficient.

    If countries like China and the quickly growing India don’t meet emission reduction goals, Americans will have suffered needlessly. China emits more greenhouse gases than every developed country combined.

    Higher fuel prices don’t affect John Kerry like they affect the 58 percent of Americans living paycheck to paycheck. For the laptop class, much of which resides in walkable cities, an extra few bucks in gas or taxes is annoying but fine. For others, it’s enormous stress, it’s a second job, it’s less time with their children, more debt, or fewer drives to see relatives.

    Overall, to put it bluntly, high-profile environmentalists want to normalize a world with fewer children, less steak, and less driving. That amounts to a war on American culture. It’s a political gift to Republicans and a moral imperative to fight. Not for the sake of cheap cuts of beef at Outback Steakhouse, but for the sake of communities and human flourishing.

    When white-collar Republican politicians talk about “pain at the pump” this fall, what they’re really talking about is the consequence of a culture war on America’s middle class — one that burdens the unwashed masses with lifestyle sacrifices our elites can weather more easily or simply refuse to give up altogether.

    Many wealthy policymakers and investors will profit majorly off the transition to “clean” energy while they force others to change their lives and fork over more of their paychecks. This is easy messaging for Republicans. Worried about culture warriors talking about Drag Queen Story Hours and abortion? First, don’t be. Second, consider “ESG” — environmental and social governance — as an all-encompassing corporate agenda to join forces with groups like Planned Parenthood to bulldoze our culture. The left sees these causes as intertwined, and the right must understand that.

    As working-class voters shift away from the Democratic Party, the left’s agenda becomes increasingly entangled with the interests of elites, from environmentalism to student loan bailouts to marriage to policing. Republicans should be shrewd enough to recognize the opportunity and smart enough to understand the stakes are higher than partisan politics.

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