Here is yet more evidence (though the empirical evidence out there is enough to make the point very clear) of how serious a situation we are in. This also clearly illustrates that our law makers are not doing enough- none of them. The right is not only doing nothing, they are mostly making things worse, but don't fool yourself- the left is culpable as well. There is no more time for compromise.
For Kalmus to say “that’s (Bidens actions) the cause of all of this damage” is unfair and misleading. Drilling on federal land accounts for less than ten percent of US fossil fuel production.
We are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The technology to replace fossil fuels are still a decade or more away (yes Elon, your cars run on fossil fuels). Gas and oil prices are surging, and that usually spells defeat for a US president.
So if Biden today cancels all drilling on US lands with the current energy industry problems caused by Putin, and Biden were to lose as a result of gas prices climbing back towards $5 a gallon, trump wins, cancels all spending from the climate bill, how’s that going to help the climate?
The problem was not created only by Biden, of course. It a lot more complicated than that. It has been created by law makers and leaders all over the world, and by corporate heads, and by you and me and pretty much everybody in the 1st world.
As for the solution- I don't know anymore. That work started in earnest some 40 years ago and little progress has been made because not enough people really cared beyond lip service. People kept commuting long distances to work and buy big over-sized pickup trucks and jet skies and cheap plastic crap that had to be replaced frequently. We kept voting for people on both sides of the isle who are weak on environment (including Biden). We kept overpopulating our species. We pretended things like carbon offsets and electric cars and solar panels were going to save the world but these were all based on the economy of more, not less.
And do we even really care about doing anything about it? Here we are, on a web site visited by a great group of people who, I believe, are generally more liberal and up on things than the average person. Yet where is our focus? We go on and on about politicians and immigration and economics and gun control and sexual preferences- all important topics we all care about- but how much focus does this place place on environment? A small percentage.
So no, I don't have any new answers. My thoughts have always been the same- reduce consumption, be conscious of the difference between want and need, purchase durable goods instead of cheap crap, greatly decrease air and cruise ship travel, reduce driving, increase public transportation, live closer to work, walk, adjust the thermostat to use less energy, support increased education in third world countries, slow human reproduction, and vote for the candidate who is most likely to help with environmental issues (if you can find one).
We have crossed the threshold. Global warming is here to stay. The best we can do now is slow it down and figure out how to live with extreme weather. Many will survive, but many will not. That's the cold, hard reality.
Well said. What concerns me a lot is we see the planet is burning right in front of our eyes, S American winters now feature 100 degree heat, and people are more concerned about Bidens age, even here on our left leaning forum. We used to have many left leaning independents who weren’t thrilled with Biden, who barely comment here anymore.
FFS, a major poll yesterday had trump ahead of Biden by a point. What TF is in the heads of 45% of this country? If trump wins, he will cancel spending on Bidens climate bill, and ramp up as much oil drilling as possible. But yeah, Bidens too old.
Here is yet more evidence (though the empirical evidence out there is enough to make the point very clear) of how serious a situation we are in. This also clearly illustrates that our law makers are not doing enough- none of them. The right is not only doing nothing, they are mostly making things worse, but don't fool yourself- the left is culpable as well. There is no more time for compromise.
For Kalmus to say “that’s (Bidens actions) the cause of all of this damage” is unfair and misleading. Drilling on federal land accounts for less than ten percent of US fossil fuel production.
We are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The technology to replace fossil fuels are still a decade or more away (yes Elon, your cars run on fossil fuels). Gas and oil prices are surging, and that usually spells defeat for a US president.
So if Biden today cancels all drilling on US lands with the current energy industry problems caused by Putin, and Biden were to lose as a result of gas prices climbing back towards $5 a gallon, trump wins, cancels all spending from the climate bill, how’s that going to help the climate?
The problem was not created only by Biden, of course. It a lot more complicated than that. It has been created by law makers and leaders all over the world, and by corporate heads, and by you and me and pretty much everybody in the 1st world.
As for the solution- I don't know anymore. That work started in earnest some 40 years ago and little progress has been made because not enough people really cared beyond lip service. People kept commuting long distances to work and buy big over-sized pickup trucks and jet skies and cheap plastic crap that had to be replaced frequently. We kept voting for people on both sides of the isle who are weak on environment (including Biden). We kept overpopulating our species. We pretended things like carbon offsets and electric cars and solar panels were going to save the world but these were all based on the economy of more, not less.
And do we even really care about doing anything about it? Here we are, on a web site visited by a great group of people who, I believe, are generally more liberal and up on things than the average person. Yet where is our focus? We go on and on about politicians and immigration and economics and gun control and sexual preferences- all important topics we all care about- but how much focus does this place place on environment? A small percentage.
So no, I don't have any new answers. My thoughts have always been the same- reduce consumption, be conscious of the difference between want and need, purchase durable goods instead of cheap crap, greatly decrease air and cruise ship travel, reduce driving, increase public transportation, live closer to work, walk, adjust the thermostat to use less energy, support increased education in third world countries, slow human reproduction, and vote for the candidate who is most likely to help with environmental issues (if you can find one).
We have crossed the threshold. Global warming is here to stay. The best we can do now is slow it down and figure out how to live with extreme weather. Many will survive, but many will not. That's the cold, hard reality.
Well said. What concerns me a lot is we see the planet is burning right in front of our eyes, S American winters now feature 100 degree heat, and people are more concerned about Bidens age, even here on our left leaning forum. We used to have many left leaning independents who weren’t thrilled with Biden, who barely comment here anymore.
FFS, a major poll yesterday had trump ahead of Biden by a point. What TF is in the heads of 45% of this country? If trump wins, he will cancel spending on Bidens climate bill, and ramp up as much oil drilling as possible. But yeah, Bidens too old.
I look at it like this, sometimes you have to get to the bottom of the hole before you can climb out.
I've know a few people who hit rock bottom- the kind of rock bottom where they are either going to get it together or die. One of them died. And now it's seeing that happen times billions, en masse in a planetary sense.
And then add to that all these people still supporting Trump. It's like watching this happen:
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Static, forget about jan 6 and the dead officers and 2 of his own voters,
"I win or its rigged" is 100% anti freedom anti American. Yet they still came out in droves to vote for him
To me that is just a prelude. To them that is the price of freedom and he had an election stolen...It will take more, just like with the climate it will take worse than what we are seeing before people start to question a quarter over quarter growth model for the economy and that that is the root of our environmental destruction, obviously fueled by war mongering and fossil fuels.
The bottom is a much deeper and darker place. Like with an addict stealing from family and friends to pay for a habit might seem like rock bottom to some of us, but for many it takes far darker and questionable decisions and multiple near death experiences to get out of that hole.
Here is yet more evidence (though the empirical evidence out there is enough to make the point very clear) of how serious a situation we are in. This also clearly illustrates that our law makers are not doing enough- none of them. The right is not only doing nothing, they are mostly making things worse, but don't fool yourself- the left is culpable as well. There is no more time for compromise.
For Kalmus to say “that’s (Bidens actions) the cause of all of this damage” is unfair and misleading. Drilling on federal land accounts for less than ten percent of US fossil fuel production.
We are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The technology to replace fossil fuels are still a decade or more away (yes Elon, your cars run on fossil fuels). Gas and oil prices are surging, and that usually spells defeat for a US president.
So if Biden today cancels all drilling on US lands with the current energy industry problems caused by Putin, and Biden were to lose as a result of gas prices climbing back towards $5 a gallon, trump wins, cancels all spending from the climate bill, how’s that going to help the climate?
The problem was not created only by Biden, of course. It a lot more complicated than that. It has been created by law makers and leaders all over the world, and by corporate heads, and by you and me and pretty much everybody in the 1st world.
As for the solution- I don't know anymore. That work started in earnest some 40 years ago and little progress has been made because not enough people really cared beyond lip service. People kept commuting long distances to work and buy big over-sized pickup trucks and jet skies and cheap plastic crap that had to be replaced frequently. We kept voting for people on both sides of the isle who are weak on environment (including Biden). We kept overpopulating our species. We pretended things like carbon offsets and electric cars and solar panels were going to save the world but these were all based on the economy of more, not less.
And do we even really care about doing anything about it? Here we are, on a web site visited by a great group of people who, I believe, are generally more liberal and up on things than the average person. Yet where is our focus? We go on and on about politicians and immigration and economics and gun control and sexual preferences- all important topics we all care about- but how much focus does this place place on environment? A small percentage.
So no, I don't have any new answers. My thoughts have always been the same- reduce consumption, be conscious of the difference between want and need, purchase durable goods instead of cheap crap, greatly decrease air and cruise ship travel, reduce driving, increase public transportation, live closer to work, walk, adjust the thermostat to use less energy, support increased education in third world countries, slow human reproduction, and vote for the candidate who is most likely to help with environmental issues (if you can find one).
We have crossed the threshold. Global warming is here to stay. The best we can do now is slow it down and figure out how to live with extreme weather. Many will survive, but many will not. That's the cold, hard reality.
Well said. What concerns me a lot is we see the planet is burning right in front of our eyes, S American winters now feature 100 degree heat, and people are more concerned about Bidens age, even here on our left leaning forum. We used to have many left leaning independents who weren’t thrilled with Biden, who barely comment here anymore.
FFS, a major poll yesterday had trump ahead of Biden by a point. What TF is in the heads of 45% of this country? If trump wins, he will cancel spending on Bidens climate bill, and ramp up as much oil drilling as possible. But yeah, Bidens too old.
Here is yet more evidence (though the empirical evidence out there is enough to make the point very clear) of how serious a situation we are in. This also clearly illustrates that our law makers are not doing enough- none of them. The right is not only doing nothing, they are mostly making things worse, but don't fool yourself- the left is culpable as well. There is no more time for compromise.
For Kalmus to say “that’s (Bidens actions) the cause of all of this damage” is unfair and misleading. Drilling on federal land accounts for less than ten percent of US fossil fuel production.
We are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The technology to replace fossil fuels are still a decade or more away (yes Elon, your cars run on fossil fuels). Gas and oil prices are surging, and that usually spells defeat for a US president.
So if Biden today cancels all drilling on US lands with the current energy industry problems caused by Putin, and Biden were to lose as a result of gas prices climbing back towards $5 a gallon, trump wins, cancels all spending from the climate bill, how’s that going to help the climate?
The problem was not created only by Biden, of course. It a lot more complicated than that. It has been created by law makers and leaders all over the world, and by corporate heads, and by you and me and pretty much everybody in the 1st world.
As for the solution- I don't know anymore. That work started in earnest some 40 years ago and little progress has been made because not enough people really cared beyond lip service. People kept commuting long distances to work and buy big over-sized pickup trucks and jet skies and cheap plastic crap that had to be replaced frequently. We kept voting for people on both sides of the isle who are weak on environment (including Biden). We kept overpopulating our species. We pretended things like carbon offsets and electric cars and solar panels were going to save the world but these were all based on the economy of more, not less.
And do we even really care about doing anything about it? Here we are, on a web site visited by a great group of people who, I believe, are generally more liberal and up on things than the average person. Yet where is our focus? We go on and on about politicians and immigration and economics and gun control and sexual preferences- all important topics we all care about- but how much focus does this place place on environment? A small percentage.
So no, I don't have any new answers. My thoughts have always been the same- reduce consumption, be conscious of the difference between want and need, purchase durable goods instead of cheap crap, greatly decrease air and cruise ship travel, reduce driving, increase public transportation, live closer to work, walk, adjust the thermostat to use less energy, support increased education in third world countries, slow human reproduction, and vote for the candidate who is most likely to help with environmental issues (if you can find one).
We have crossed the threshold. Global warming is here to stay. The best we can do now is slow it down and figure out how to live with extreme weather. Many will survive, but many will not. That's the cold, hard reality.
Well said. What concerns me a lot is we see the planet is burning right in front of our eyes, S American winters now feature 100 degree heat, and people are more concerned about Bidens age, even here on our left leaning forum. We used to have many left leaning independents who weren’t thrilled with Biden, who barely comment here anymore.
FFS, a major poll yesterday had trump ahead of Biden by a point. What TF is in the heads of 45% of this country? If trump wins, he will cancel spending on Bidens climate bill, and ramp up as much oil drilling as possible. But yeah, Bidens too old.
I look at it like this, sometimes you have to get to the bottom of the hole before you can climb out.
I've know a few people who hit rock bottom- the kind of rock bottom where they are either going to get it together or die. One of them died. And now it's seeing that happen times billions, en masse in a planetary sense.
And then add to that all these people still supporting Trump. It's like watching this happen:
Yes Brian I agree, my best friend died before he hit rock bottom and never got to climb out, but I really think it is going to take the whole country hitting rock bottom before we get to the point of legitimately fixing anything. And if we don't make it out, well it was a long run.
Here is yet more evidence (though the empirical evidence out there is enough to make the point very clear) of how serious a situation we are in. This also clearly illustrates that our law makers are not doing enough- none of them. The right is not only doing nothing, they are mostly making things worse, but don't fool yourself- the left is culpable as well. There is no more time for compromise.
For Kalmus to say “that’s (Bidens actions) the cause of all of this damage” is unfair and misleading. Drilling on federal land accounts for less than ten percent of US fossil fuel production.
We are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The technology to replace fossil fuels are still a decade or more away (yes Elon, your cars run on fossil fuels). Gas and oil prices are surging, and that usually spells defeat for a US president.
So if Biden today cancels all drilling on US lands with the current energy industry problems caused by Putin, and Biden were to lose as a result of gas prices climbing back towards $5 a gallon, trump wins, cancels all spending from the climate bill, how’s that going to help the climate?
The problem was not created only by Biden, of course. It a lot more complicated than that. It has been created by law makers and leaders all over the world, and by corporate heads, and by you and me and pretty much everybody in the 1st world.
As for the solution- I don't know anymore. That work started in earnest some 40 years ago and little progress has been made because not enough people really cared beyond lip service. People kept commuting long distances to work and buy big over-sized pickup trucks and jet skies and cheap plastic crap that had to be replaced frequently. We kept voting for people on both sides of the isle who are weak on environment (including Biden). We kept overpopulating our species. We pretended things like carbon offsets and electric cars and solar panels were going to save the world but these were all based on the economy of more, not less.
And do we even really care about doing anything about it? Here we are, on a web site visited by a great group of people who, I believe, are generally more liberal and up on things than the average person. Yet where is our focus? We go on and on about politicians and immigration and economics and gun control and sexual preferences- all important topics we all care about- but how much focus does this place place on environment? A small percentage.
So no, I don't have any new answers. My thoughts have always been the same- reduce consumption, be conscious of the difference between want and need, purchase durable goods instead of cheap crap, greatly decrease air and cruise ship travel, reduce driving, increase public transportation, live closer to work, walk, adjust the thermostat to use less energy, support increased education in third world countries, slow human reproduction, and vote for the candidate who is most likely to help with environmental issues (if you can find one).
We have crossed the threshold. Global warming is here to stay. The best we can do now is slow it down and figure out how to live with extreme weather. Many will survive, but many will not. That's the cold, hard reality.
the problem is it's human nature to worry about what's right in front of you, not something that people think "may" happen to future generations (look how few people invest in retirement, and instead buy things they don't need). it's so, so shortsighted, and selfish. but humans are selfish. it sucks. but I don't think we get out of this.
Flight Risk out NOW!
www.headstonesband.com
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,767
Here is yet more evidence (though the empirical evidence out there is enough to make the point very clear) of how serious a situation we are in. This also clearly illustrates that our law makers are not doing enough- none of them. The right is not only doing nothing, they are mostly making things worse, but don't fool yourself- the left is culpable as well. There is no more time for compromise.
For Kalmus to say “that’s (Bidens actions) the cause of all of this damage” is unfair and misleading. Drilling on federal land accounts for less than ten percent of US fossil fuel production.
We are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The technology to replace fossil fuels are still a decade or more away (yes Elon, your cars run on fossil fuels). Gas and oil prices are surging, and that usually spells defeat for a US president.
So if Biden today cancels all drilling on US lands with the current energy industry problems caused by Putin, and Biden were to lose as a result of gas prices climbing back towards $5 a gallon, trump wins, cancels all spending from the climate bill, how’s that going to help the climate?
The problem was not created only by Biden, of course. It a lot more complicated than that. It has been created by law makers and leaders all over the world, and by corporate heads, and by you and me and pretty much everybody in the 1st world.
As for the solution- I don't know anymore. That work started in earnest some 40 years ago and little progress has been made because not enough people really cared beyond lip service. People kept commuting long distances to work and buy big over-sized pickup trucks and jet skies and cheap plastic crap that had to be replaced frequently. We kept voting for people on both sides of the isle who are weak on environment (including Biden). We kept overpopulating our species. We pretended things like carbon offsets and electric cars and solar panels were going to save the world but these were all based on the economy of more, not less.
And do we even really care about doing anything about it? Here we are, on a web site visited by a great group of people who, I believe, are generally more liberal and up on things than the average person. Yet where is our focus? We go on and on about politicians and immigration and economics and gun control and sexual preferences- all important topics we all care about- but how much focus does this place place on environment? A small percentage.
So no, I don't have any new answers. My thoughts have always been the same- reduce consumption, be conscious of the difference between want and need, purchase durable goods instead of cheap crap, greatly decrease air and cruise ship travel, reduce driving, increase public transportation, live closer to work, walk, adjust the thermostat to use less energy, support increased education in third world countries, slow human reproduction, and vote for the candidate who is most likely to help with environmental issues (if you can find one).
We have crossed the threshold. Global warming is here to stay. The best we can do now is slow it down and figure out how to live with extreme weather. Many will survive, but many will not. That's the cold, hard reality.
Well said. What concerns me a lot is we see the planet is burning right in front of our eyes, S American winters now feature 100 degree heat, and people are more concerned about Bidens age, even here on our left leaning forum. We used to have many left leaning independents who weren’t thrilled with Biden, who barely comment here anymore.
FFS, a major poll yesterday had trump ahead of Biden by a point. What TF is in the heads of 45% of this country? If trump wins, he will cancel spending on Bidens climate bill, and ramp up as much oil drilling as possible. But yeah, Bidens too old.
Here is yet more evidence (though the empirical evidence out there is enough to make the point very clear) of how serious a situation we are in. This also clearly illustrates that our law makers are not doing enough- none of them. The right is not only doing nothing, they are mostly making things worse, but don't fool yourself- the left is culpable as well. There is no more time for compromise.
For Kalmus to say “that’s (Bidens actions) the cause of all of this damage” is unfair and misleading. Drilling on federal land accounts for less than ten percent of US fossil fuel production.
We are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The technology to replace fossil fuels are still a decade or more away (yes Elon, your cars run on fossil fuels). Gas and oil prices are surging, and that usually spells defeat for a US president.
So if Biden today cancels all drilling on US lands with the current energy industry problems caused by Putin, and Biden were to lose as a result of gas prices climbing back towards $5 a gallon, trump wins, cancels all spending from the climate bill, how’s that going to help the climate?
The problem was not created only by Biden, of course. It a lot more complicated than that. It has been created by law makers and leaders all over the world, and by corporate heads, and by you and me and pretty much everybody in the 1st world.
As for the solution- I don't know anymore. That work started in earnest some 40 years ago and little progress has been made because not enough people really cared beyond lip service. People kept commuting long distances to work and buy big over-sized pickup trucks and jet skies and cheap plastic crap that had to be replaced frequently. We kept voting for people on both sides of the isle who are weak on environment (including Biden). We kept overpopulating our species. We pretended things like carbon offsets and electric cars and solar panels were going to save the world but these were all based on the economy of more, not less.
And do we even really care about doing anything about it? Here we are, on a web site visited by a great group of people who, I believe, are generally more liberal and up on things than the average person. Yet where is our focus? We go on and on about politicians and immigration and economics and gun control and sexual preferences- all important topics we all care about- but how much focus does this place place on environment? A small percentage.
So no, I don't have any new answers. My thoughts have always been the same- reduce consumption, be conscious of the difference between want and need, purchase durable goods instead of cheap crap, greatly decrease air and cruise ship travel, reduce driving, increase public transportation, live closer to work, walk, adjust the thermostat to use less energy, support increased education in third world countries, slow human reproduction, and vote for the candidate who is most likely to help with environmental issues (if you can find one).
We have crossed the threshold. Global warming is here to stay. The best we can do now is slow it down and figure out how to live with extreme weather. Many will survive, but many will not. That's the cold, hard reality.
Well said. What concerns me a lot is we see the planet is burning right in front of our eyes, S American winters now feature 100 degree heat, and people are more concerned about Bidens age, even here on our left leaning forum. We used to have many left leaning independents who weren’t thrilled with Biden, who barely comment here anymore.
FFS, a major poll yesterday had trump ahead of Biden by a point. What TF is in the heads of 45% of this country? If trump wins, he will cancel spending on Bidens climate bill, and ramp up as much oil drilling as possible. But yeah, Bidens too old.
I look at it like this, sometimes you have to get to the bottom of the hole before you can climb out.
I've know a few people who hit rock bottom- the kind of rock bottom where they are either going to get it together or die. One of them died. And now it's seeing that happen times billions, en masse in a planetary sense.
And then add to that all these people still supporting Trump. It's like watching this happen:
Yes Brian I agree, my best friend died before he hit rock bottom and never got to climb out, but I really think it is going to take the whole country hitting rock bottom before we get to the point of legitimately fixing anything. And if we don't make it out, well it was a long run.
Man, I am sorry to hear that. That's a hard way to lose a friend.
Here is yet more evidence (though the empirical evidence out there is enough to make the point very clear) of how serious a situation we are in. This also clearly illustrates that our law makers are not doing enough- none of them. The right is not only doing nothing, they are mostly making things worse, but don't fool yourself- the left is culpable as well. There is no more time for compromise.
For Kalmus to say “that’s (Bidens actions) the cause of all of this damage” is unfair and misleading. Drilling on federal land accounts for less than ten percent of US fossil fuel production.
We are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The technology to replace fossil fuels are still a decade or more away (yes Elon, your cars run on fossil fuels). Gas and oil prices are surging, and that usually spells defeat for a US president.
So if Biden today cancels all drilling on US lands with the current energy industry problems caused by Putin, and Biden were to lose as a result of gas prices climbing back towards $5 a gallon, trump wins, cancels all spending from the climate bill, how’s that going to help the climate?
The problem was not created only by Biden, of course. It a lot more complicated than that. It has been created by law makers and leaders all over the world, and by corporate heads, and by you and me and pretty much everybody in the 1st world.
As for the solution- I don't know anymore. That work started in earnest some 40 years ago and little progress has been made because not enough people really cared beyond lip service. People kept commuting long distances to work and buy big over-sized pickup trucks and jet skies and cheap plastic crap that had to be replaced frequently. We kept voting for people on both sides of the isle who are weak on environment (including Biden). We kept overpopulating our species. We pretended things like carbon offsets and electric cars and solar panels were going to save the world but these were all based on the economy of more, not less.
And do we even really care about doing anything about it? Here we are, on a web site visited by a great group of people who, I believe, are generally more liberal and up on things than the average person. Yet where is our focus? We go on and on about politicians and immigration and economics and gun control and sexual preferences- all important topics we all care about- but how much focus does this place place on environment? A small percentage.
So no, I don't have any new answers. My thoughts have always been the same- reduce consumption, be conscious of the difference between want and need, purchase durable goods instead of cheap crap, greatly decrease air and cruise ship travel, reduce driving, increase public transportation, live closer to work, walk, adjust the thermostat to use less energy, support increased education in third world countries, slow human reproduction, and vote for the candidate who is most likely to help with environmental issues (if you can find one).
We have crossed the threshold. Global warming is here to stay. The best we can do now is slow it down and figure out how to live with extreme weather. Many will survive, but many will not. That's the cold, hard reality.
the problem is it's human nature to worry about what's right in front of you, not something that people think "may" happen to future generations (look how few people invest in retirement, and instead buy things they don't need). it's so, so shortsighted, and selfish. but humans are selfish. it sucks. but I don't think we get out of this.
Well said.
The sad thing is that we've had two other things going against us. One, the fact that too many people bought into the idea that global warming is a hoax (or they just didn't want to admit that it was true) and two, the fact that until very recently, both government and media only paid lip service to the issue and generally down-played it.
The people on the front lines of climate science have seen this coming for quite a while. As early as 1896, Swedish scientist Svante Arrhenius published an article that talked about how increased carbon dioxide in the atmosphere could cause a green house affect- 127 years ago! ( https://climate.nasa.gov/evidence/ )
The talk about global warming started in earnest in the mid 70s, and in 1988 NASA climate scientist James Hansen testified to the U.S. Senate on climate change and coined the term "global warming".
IPCC reports have given clear evidence of global warming for the last 23 years but again, to many people either looked away or fell for the "it's a hoax" nonsense.
And so here we are now, over the brink. I agree, I don't see us getting out of this. At best, we adapt, but the toll will be high.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,767
Just about sums it up:
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Variously credited to Mark Twain or Edward Abbey.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,931
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,931
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,931
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,767
THIS is the kind of thing I've been watching for Biden to do, so Kudos there. I hope he continues to move in that direction. It's been a bit of a mixed bag up to now. Although I do understand these are complex issues not easily remedied, we're running out of time.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I'm not googling. Is this about strip mining? If so, I watched mountains/hills in California that I would climb and go in the old mineshafts disappear. Some of the craziest earth moving I've ever seen. Literal mountains gone.
I believe they stopped strip mining for the most part but some are still allowed like quarrys and Borax mining.
So here on Long Island the tri-state area opened up water/ocean to power companies. They bid on a bunch of off shore land. Out here on the South shore here where I live, they are going to build a windfarm. A bunch of people are not happy about it. I've noticed a lot more commercials for "green energy" lately. I'm sure it's because of the backlash.
I don't think any surmountable pushback is going to stop them from building it. I also don't have enough research to see if any claims against the farm are plausible.
So here on Long Island the tri-state area opened up water/ocean to power companies. They bid on a bunch of off shore land. Out here on the South shore here where I live, they are going to build a windfarm. A bunch of people are not happy about it. I've noticed a lot more commercials for "green energy" lately. I'm sure it's because of the backlash.
I don't think any surmountable pushback is going to stop them from building it. I also don't have enough research to see if any claims against the farm are plausible.
From what I’ve seen, the biggest oppo is city of Long Beach wanting authority over the land where the cables connect to the ocean. Some are also expressing concern over radiation from the cables. Definitely difficult to find details on this.
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mickeyrat
up my ass, like Chadwick was up his Posts: 35,931
So here on Long Island the tri-state area opened up water/ocean to power companies. They bid on a bunch of off shore land. Out here on the South shore here where I live, they are going to build a windfarm. A bunch of people are not happy about it. I've noticed a lot more commercials for "green energy" lately. I'm sure it's because of the backlash.
I don't think any surmountable pushback is going to stop them from building it. I also don't have enough research to see if any claims against the farm are plausible.
From what I’ve seen, the biggest oppo is city of Long Beach wanting authority over the land where the cables connect to the ocean. Some are also expressing concern over radiation from the cables. Definitely difficult to find details on this.
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,767
I wind power really the answer? As much as I am pro "green energy", I have real hesitations about wind power. At what point is it worth sacrificing the aesthetic beauty of our environment, the sounds of nature, the lives of birds, to support 8+ billion humans on the planet?
I just can't see doing this to our environment as being a reasonable solution:
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I wind power really the answer? As much as I am pro "green energy", I have real hesitations about wind power. At what point is it worth sacrificing the aesthetic beauty of our environment, the sounds of nature, the lives of birds, to support 8+ billion humans on the planet?
I just can't see doing this to our environment as being a reasonable solution:
I'm with you Brian, it seems like every time we try to fix things we create more problems. Thrashing ecosystems to put up wind farms is probably not the best idea. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. With reduce of course being first. It is insane that this country was covered with old growth forests and we cut almost all of them down and don't really let the old areas regenerate, just replant straight rows of monocrops instead of mixed forests. We are stupid. I have a feeling nature will cull the human herd to a more manageable level at some point. We can't solve every problem with granular scientific thinking. uh oh I am about to start a rant. Better stop now!
Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,767
I wind power really the answer? As much as I am pro "green energy", I have real hesitations about wind power. At what point is it worth sacrificing the aesthetic beauty of our environment, the sounds of nature, the lives of birds, to support 8+ billion humans on the planet?
I just can't see doing this to our environment as being a reasonable solution:
I'm with you Brian, it seems like every time we try to fix things we create more problems. Thrashing ecosystems to put up wind farms is probably not the best idea. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. With reduce of course being first. It is insane that this country was covered with old growth forests and we cut almost all of them down and don't really let the old areas regenerate, just replant straight rows of monocrops instead of mixed forests. We are stupid. I have a feeling nature will cull the human herd to a more manageable level at some point. We can't solve every problem with granular scientific thinking. uh oh I am about to start a rant. Better stop now!
Well said!
"They cut the forest down to build a piece of crap
(PIECE OF CRAP)"
-Neil Young and Crazy Horse
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I wind power really the answer? As much as I am pro "green energy", I have real hesitations about wind power. At what point is it worth sacrificing the aesthetic beauty of our environment, the sounds of nature, the lives of birds, to support 8+ billion humans on the planet?
I just can't see doing this to our environment as being a reasonable solution:
I'm with you Brian, it seems like every time we try to fix things we create more problems. Thrashing ecosystems to put up wind farms is probably not the best idea. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. With reduce of course being first. It is insane that this country was covered with old growth forests and we cut almost all of them down and don't really let the old areas regenerate, just replant straight rows of monocrops instead of mixed forests. We are stupid. I have a feeling nature will cull the human herd to a more manageable level at some point. We can't solve every problem with granular scientific thinking. uh oh I am about to start a rant. Better stop now!
Well said!
"They cut the forest down to build a piece of crap
(PIECE OF CRAP)"
-Neil Young and Crazy Horse
Wow, almost has a feel of maga nation taking over AMT despite that great song reference!
Would a solar farm look any better?
Without wind and solar, whats left other than fossil fuel?
Fortunately, some good news-
“ Critics of wind and solar routinely raise concerns about how much land would be required to decarbonize the US power sector. Fortunately, the answer is relatively little. A recent National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) study shows that it would take less than 1 percent of the land in the Lower 48—that’s an area comparable to or even smaller than the fossil fuel industry’s current footprint. And when wind and solar projects are responsibly sited, the environmental and public health impacts would be far less harmful than those from extracting, producing and burning fossil fuels.”
I wind power really the answer? As much as I am pro "green energy", I have real hesitations about wind power. At what point is it worth sacrificing the aesthetic beauty of our environment, the sounds of nature, the lives of birds, to support 8+ billion humans on the planet?
I just can't see doing this to our environment as being a reasonable solution:
I'm with you Brian, it seems like every time we try to fix things we create more problems. Thrashing ecosystems to put up wind farms is probably not the best idea. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. With reduce of course being first. It is insane that this country was covered with old growth forests and we cut almost all of them down and don't really let the old areas regenerate, just replant straight rows of monocrops instead of mixed forests. We are stupid. I have a feeling nature will cull the human herd to a more manageable level at some point. We can't solve every problem with granular scientific thinking. uh oh I am about to start a rant. Better stop now!
Well said!
"They cut the forest down to build a piece of crap
(PIECE OF CRAP)"
-Neil Young and Crazy Horse
Wow, almost has a feel of maga nation taking over AMT despite that great song reference!
Would a solar farm look any better?
Without wind and solar, whats left other than fossil fuel?
Fortunately, some good news-
“ Critics of wind and solar routinely raise concerns about how much land would be required to decarbonize the US power sector. Fortunately, the answer is relatively little. A recent National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) study shows that it would take less than 1 percent of the land in the Lower 48—that’s an area comparable to or even smaller than the fossil fuel industry’s current footprint. And when wind and solar projects are responsibly sited, the environmental and public health impacts would be far less harmful than those from extracting, producing and burning fossil fuels.”
Well we could just reduce the abuse and actually replant forests but not as a token gesture to cut them back down in 30 more years. Research a way to make solar panels as efficient as leaves when it comes to collecting the sun's energy. Or continue this path of kicking the can down the road until complete ecological disaster and figure out how to build something better out of the chaos.
We think we can keep doing things the way they have always done and just switch to a cleaner way of producing energy. We measure everything in terms of carbon and nothing in terms of our destruction of soil and ecosystems by other means. We continue to think that quarter over quarter growth and profit is what makes a success. Switch from fossil fuels all you want. If we do everything else the same we are going to consume the earth into a desert anyway. We need a radical realignment of how we interact with the planet.
Buying the same cheap crap over and over getting new electronics at a greater rate every year consuming more precious and toxic rare earth minerals and just switching to solar and wind still kills the planet. We need to stop being a consumer society.
I realize this sounds vaguely like the unabomber or what have you, but I just don't believe anything short of complete chaos is going to get us to make any necessary changes. We can't on one hand celebrate the growth of the stock market and chastise the destruction of the environment. Those are not two independent things. What causes the market to rise is literally what's killing the environment. A consumer society built on buying crap food, crap products, crap dreams.
Post edited by static111 on
Scio me nihil scire
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,767
I wind power really the answer? As much as I am pro "green energy", I have real hesitations about wind power. At what point is it worth sacrificing the aesthetic beauty of our environment, the sounds of nature, the lives of birds, to support 8+ billion humans on the planet?
I just can't see doing this to our environment as being a reasonable solution:
I'm with you Brian, it seems like every time we try to fix things we create more problems. Thrashing ecosystems to put up wind farms is probably not the best idea. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. With reduce of course being first. It is insane that this country was covered with old growth forests and we cut almost all of them down and don't really let the old areas regenerate, just replant straight rows of monocrops instead of mixed forests. We are stupid. I have a feeling nature will cull the human herd to a more manageable level at some point. We can't solve every problem with granular scientific thinking. uh oh I am about to start a rant. Better stop now!
Well said!
"They cut the forest down to build a piece of crap
(PIECE OF CRAP)"
-Neil Young and Crazy Horse
Wow, almost has a feel of maga nation taking over AMT despite that great song reference!
Would a solar farm look any better?
Without wind and solar, whats left other than fossil fuel?
Fortunately, some good news-
“ Critics of wind and solar routinely raise concerns about how much land would be required to decarbonize the US power sector. Fortunately, the answer is relatively little. A recent National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) study shows that it would take less than 1 percent of the land in the Lower 48—that’s an area comparable to or even smaller than the fossil fuel industry’s current footprint. And when wind and solar projects are responsibly sited, the environmental and public health impacts would be far less harmful than those from extracting, producing and burning fossil fuels.”
Hardly, my friend, hardly! You have to know by now that I am hard-core pro environment. But my commitment to the environment stems from a biocentric viewpoint, and wind farms and the equally hideous solar farms stem from an anthropocentric viewpoint. Those arrays serve merely to meet the never-ending voracious and ravenous appetite of humans for the amount of power necessary to continue to live in ways that, in the long run, are unsustainable. A major premise of that desire for power is the on-going false assumption that we can continue to live as a car culture and live based with the predominance of suburbia as a doable lifestyle based on an economy of consumption rather that conservation. That is simply not going to work over time, and as the rest of the developing world strives to follow suit, the closer we edge ourselves towards an inevitable collapse.
Perhaps read James Howard Kunstler's The Long Emergency. I'm not a fan of Kunstler's politics, but when in comes to energy and how our quest for never-ending consumption affect the planet, he has it pegged and explains it all in cleat language. Richard Heinberg, senior fellow of the Post Carbon Institute has written extensively about all this as well.
I have a great deal of frustration over this issue because after studying this stuff for the last 3 or 4 decades, I'm more convinced than ever that we are heading down a blind ally toward imminent collapse. I sincerely believe our desire to continue living an unbalanced consumer oriented lifestyle is wishful thinking and believing that solar and wind farms are going to allow us to continue living that way is a fools fantasy.
I would love to be proved wrong, but highly skeptical that I will be.
EDIT: And I am in complete agreement with what static111 wrote above. Well said!
Post edited by brianlux on
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I wind power really the answer? As much as I am pro "green energy", I have real hesitations about wind power. At what point is it worth sacrificing the aesthetic beauty of our environment, the sounds of nature, the lives of birds, to support 8+ billion humans on the planet?
I just can't see doing this to our environment as being a reasonable solution:
I'm with you Brian, it seems like every time we try to fix things we create more problems. Thrashing ecosystems to put up wind farms is probably not the best idea. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. With reduce of course being first. It is insane that this country was covered with old growth forests and we cut almost all of them down and don't really let the old areas regenerate, just replant straight rows of monocrops instead of mixed forests. We are stupid. I have a feeling nature will cull the human herd to a more manageable level at some point. We can't solve every problem with granular scientific thinking. uh oh I am about to start a rant. Better stop now!
Well said!
"They cut the forest down to build a piece of crap
(PIECE OF CRAP)"
-Neil Young and Crazy Horse
Wow, almost has a feel of maga nation taking over AMT despite that great song reference!
Would a solar farm look any better?
Without wind and solar, whats left other than fossil fuel?
Fortunately, some good news-
“ Critics of wind and solar routinely raise concerns about how much land would be required to decarbonize the US power sector. Fortunately, the answer is relatively little. A recent National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) study shows that it would take less than 1 percent of the land in the Lower 48—that’s an area comparable to or even smaller than the fossil fuel industry’s current footprint. And when wind and solar projects are responsibly sited, the environmental and public health impacts would be far less harmful than those from extracting, producing and burning fossil fuels.”
Hardly, my friend, hardly! You have to know by now that I am hard-core pro environment. But my commitment to the environment stems from a biocentric viewpoint, and wind farms and the equally hideous solar farms stem from an anthropocentric viewpoint. Those arrays serve merely to meet the never-ending voracious and ravenous appetite of humans for the amount of power necessary to continue to live in ways that, in the long run, are unsustainable. A major premise of that desire for power is the on-going false assumption that we can continue to live as a car culture and live based with the predominance of suburbia as a doable lifestyle based on an economy of consumption rather that conservation. That is simply not going to work over time, and as the rest of the developing world strives to follow suit, the closer we edge ourselves towards an inevitable collapse.
Perhaps read James Howard Kunstler's The Long Emergency. I'm not a fan of Kunstler's politics, but when in comes to energy and how our quest for never-ending consumption affect the planet, he has it pegged and explains it all in cleat language. Richard Heinberg, senior fellow of the Post Carbon Institute has written extensively about all this as well.
I have a great deal of frustration over this issue because after studying this stuff for the last 3 or 4 decades, I'm more convinced than ever that we are heading down a blind ally toward imminent collapse. I sincerely believe our desire to continue living an unbalanced consumer oriented lifestyle is wishful thinking and believing that solar and wind farms are going to allow us to continue living that way is a fools fantasy.
I would love to be proved wrong, but highly skeptical that I will be.
EDIT: And I am in complete agreement with what static111 wrote above. Well said!
I was going to tell you the same about this point. Your statements are much more well thought out and put together than mine. I can be all over the place. It's just so frustrating that no one wants to do a behavior or culture adjustment and think we can science, technology, and government our way out of this. Unfortunately the level of change necessary at the individual level is almost insurmountable unless you want to become homeless. We should have never climbed out of the trees!
I wind power really the answer? As much as I am pro "green energy", I have real hesitations about wind power. At what point is it worth sacrificing the aesthetic beauty of our environment, the sounds of nature, the lives of birds, to support 8+ billion humans on the planet?
I just can't see doing this to our environment as being a reasonable solution:
I'm with you Brian, it seems like every time we try to fix things we create more problems. Thrashing ecosystems to put up wind farms is probably not the best idea. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. With reduce of course being first. It is insane that this country was covered with old growth forests and we cut almost all of them down and don't really let the old areas regenerate, just replant straight rows of monocrops instead of mixed forests. We are stupid. I have a feeling nature will cull the human herd to a more manageable level at some point. We can't solve every problem with granular scientific thinking. uh oh I am about to start a rant. Better stop now!
Well said!
"They cut the forest down to build a piece of crap
(PIECE OF CRAP)"
-Neil Young and Crazy Horse
Wow, almost has a feel of maga nation taking over AMT despite that great song reference!
Would a solar farm look any better?
Without wind and solar, whats left other than fossil fuel?
Fortunately, some good news-
“ Critics of wind and solar routinely raise concerns about how much land would be required to decarbonize the US power sector. Fortunately, the answer is relatively little. A recent National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) study shows that it would take less than 1 percent of the land in the Lower 48—that’s an area comparable to or even smaller than the fossil fuel industry’s current footprint. And when wind and solar projects are responsibly sited, the environmental and public health impacts would be far less harmful than those from extracting, producing and burning fossil fuels.”
Well we could just reduce the abuse and actually replant forests but not as a token gesture to cut them back down in 30 more years. Research a way to make solar panels as efficient as leaves when it comes to collecting the sun's energy. Or continue this path of kicking the can down the road until complete ecological disaster and figure out how to build something better out of the chaos.
We think we can keep doing things the way they have always done and just switch to a cleaner way of producing energy. We measure everything in terms of carbon and nothing in terms of our destruction of soil and ecosystems by other means. We continue to think that quarter over quarter growth and profit is what makes a success. Switch from fossil fuels all you want. If we do everything else the same we are going to consume the earth into a desert anyway. We need a radical realignment of how we interact with the planet.
Buying the same cheap crap over and over getting new electronics at a greater rate every year consuming more precious and toxic rare earth minerals and just switching to solar and wind still kills the planet. We need to stop being a consumer society.
I realize this sounds vaguely like the unabomber or what have you, but I just don't believe anything short of complete chaos is going to get us to make any necessary changes. We can't on one hand celebrate the growth of the stock market and chastise the destruction of the environment. Those are not two independent things. What causes the market to rise is literally what's killing the environment. A consumer society built on buying crap food, crap products, crap dreams.
I agree that from frustration comes innovation. However, if we try to change behavior, we may be tilting at windmills. A nudging is possible, but the population just isnt into radical realignment. Heck, considering jan six and all of the climate warning signs of the past few years, trump is polling better than ever now. Climate concerns are not moving the needle away at all from from the climate denial party. Our best chance of success is to quickly implement the most effective tools that currently exist. If the electorate is not seeing the danger from all of the recent wildfires and hundred degree winter heat in S America, they never will.
My question above was more towards energy generation, if we don’t have solar or wind, we are left with fossil fuel. It took a long time to get renewables viewed favorably. Implementing the current tech is difficult and time consuming. We need to move that needle as fast as possible.
The unfortunate part of renewables is yes they can be ugly. The fact that they keep the neighboring greenery intact is creating a dangerous dynamic ugly and beauty side by side. But oil fields are even uglier.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,767
I wind power really the answer? As much as I am pro "green energy", I have real hesitations about wind power. At what point is it worth sacrificing the aesthetic beauty of our environment, the sounds of nature, the lives of birds, to support 8+ billion humans on the planet?
I just can't see doing this to our environment as being a reasonable solution:
I'm with you Brian, it seems like every time we try to fix things we create more problems. Thrashing ecosystems to put up wind farms is probably not the best idea. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. With reduce of course being first. It is insane that this country was covered with old growth forests and we cut almost all of them down and don't really let the old areas regenerate, just replant straight rows of monocrops instead of mixed forests. We are stupid. I have a feeling nature will cull the human herd to a more manageable level at some point. We can't solve every problem with granular scientific thinking. uh oh I am about to start a rant. Better stop now!
Well said!
"They cut the forest down to build a piece of crap
(PIECE OF CRAP)"
-Neil Young and Crazy Horse
Wow, almost has a feel of maga nation taking over AMT despite that great song reference!
Would a solar farm look any better?
Without wind and solar, whats left other than fossil fuel?
Fortunately, some good news-
“ Critics of wind and solar routinely raise concerns about how much land would be required to decarbonize the US power sector. Fortunately, the answer is relatively little. A recent National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) study shows that it would take less than 1 percent of the land in the Lower 48—that’s an area comparable to or even smaller than the fossil fuel industry’s current footprint. And when wind and solar projects are responsibly sited, the environmental and public health impacts would be far less harmful than those from extracting, producing and burning fossil fuels.”
Hardly, my friend, hardly! You have to know by now that I am hard-core pro environment. But my commitment to the environment stems from a biocentric viewpoint, and wind farms and the equally hideous solar farms stem from an anthropocentric viewpoint. Those arrays serve merely to meet the never-ending voracious and ravenous appetite of humans for the amount of power necessary to continue to live in ways that, in the long run, are unsustainable. A major premise of that desire for power is the on-going false assumption that we can continue to live as a car culture and live based with the predominance of suburbia as a doable lifestyle based on an economy of consumption rather that conservation. That is simply not going to work over time, and as the rest of the developing world strives to follow suit, the closer we edge ourselves towards an inevitable collapse.
Perhaps read James Howard Kunstler's The Long Emergency. I'm not a fan of Kunstler's politics, but when in comes to energy and how our quest for never-ending consumption affect the planet, he has it pegged and explains it all in cleat language. Richard Heinberg, senior fellow of the Post Carbon Institute has written extensively about all this as well.
I have a great deal of frustration over this issue because after studying this stuff for the last 3 or 4 decades, I'm more convinced than ever that we are heading down a blind ally toward imminent collapse. I sincerely believe our desire to continue living an unbalanced consumer oriented lifestyle is wishful thinking and believing that solar and wind farms are going to allow us to continue living that way is a fools fantasy.
I would love to be proved wrong, but highly skeptical that I will be.
EDIT: And I am in complete agreement with what static111 wrote above. Well said!
I was going to tell you the same about this point. Your statements are much more well thought out and put together than mine. I can be all over the place. It's just so frustrating that no one wants to do a behavior or culture adjustment and think we can science, technology, and government our way out of this. Unfortunately the level of change necessary at the individual level is almost insurmountable unless you want to become homeless. We should have never climbed out of the trees!
I so share your frustration!
The sad thing about not being willing to adjust our behaviors is that eventually the limits of resources will force us to make adjustments that will be punishing rather than a little uncomfortable or inconvenient. And there are so many simple things we could do right now that would help a lot and would not affect out lives in harsh ways. To name just a few:
-Reduce travel. Instead of flying somewhere, explore on own region. My wife and I find new and interesting things to do right here in El Dorado County.
-If you have to travel, take the train. Trains carry more weight per energy unit than any other form of transportation besides walking.
-Walk!
-Buy used items including entertainment. I must confess, I do purchase an occasional new release of an album, but the vast majority of my record collection are used LPs. That may mean sometimes having to wait a while. I recently finally scored a really nice used copy of Sonny Rollins' Saxophone Colossus. I just kept watching and eventually one came up.
-Purchase durable products. Yes, they cost more, but in the long run they save us money because they last longer.
-Adjust the thermostat to save energy.
I'll bet everyone here could easily add to this list simple ways to save energy, lower carbon output, and reduce consumption.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
I wind power really the answer? As much as I am pro "green energy", I have real hesitations about wind power. At what point is it worth sacrificing the aesthetic beauty of our environment, the sounds of nature, the lives of birds, to support 8+ billion humans on the planet?
I just can't see doing this to our environment as being a reasonable solution:
I'm with you Brian, it seems like every time we try to fix things we create more problems. Thrashing ecosystems to put up wind farms is probably not the best idea. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. With reduce of course being first. It is insane that this country was covered with old growth forests and we cut almost all of them down and don't really let the old areas regenerate, just replant straight rows of monocrops instead of mixed forests. We are stupid. I have a feeling nature will cull the human herd to a more manageable level at some point. We can't solve every problem with granular scientific thinking. uh oh I am about to start a rant. Better stop now!
Well said!
"They cut the forest down to build a piece of crap
(PIECE OF CRAP)"
-Neil Young and Crazy Horse
Wow, almost has a feel of maga nation taking over AMT despite that great song reference!
Would a solar farm look any better?
Without wind and solar, whats left other than fossil fuel?
Fortunately, some good news-
“ Critics of wind and solar routinely raise concerns about how much land would be required to decarbonize the US power sector. Fortunately, the answer is relatively little. A recent National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) study shows that it would take less than 1 percent of the land in the Lower 48—that’s an area comparable to or even smaller than the fossil fuel industry’s current footprint. And when wind and solar projects are responsibly sited, the environmental and public health impacts would be far less harmful than those from extracting, producing and burning fossil fuels.”
Hardly, my friend, hardly! You have to know by now that I am hard-core pro environment. But my commitment to the environment stems from a biocentric viewpoint, and wind farms and the equally hideous solar farms stem from an anthropocentric viewpoint. Those arrays serve merely to meet the never-ending voracious and ravenous appetite of humans for the amount of power necessary to continue to live in ways that, in the long run, are unsustainable. A major premise of that desire for power is the on-going false assumption that we can continue to live as a car culture and live based with the predominance of suburbia as a doable lifestyle based on an economy of consumption rather that conservation. That is simply not going to work over time, and as the rest of the developing world strives to follow suit, the closer we edge ourselves towards an inevitable collapse.
Perhaps read James Howard Kunstler's The Long Emergency. I'm not a fan of Kunstler's politics, but when in comes to energy and how our quest for never-ending consumption affect the planet, he has it pegged and explains it all in cleat language. Richard Heinberg, senior fellow of the Post Carbon Institute has written extensively about all this as well.
I have a great deal of frustration over this issue because after studying this stuff for the last 3 or 4 decades, I'm more convinced than ever that we are heading down a blind ally toward imminent collapse. I sincerely believe our desire to continue living an unbalanced consumer oriented lifestyle is wishful thinking and believing that solar and wind farms are going to allow us to continue living that way is a fools fantasy.
I would love to be proved wrong, but highly skeptical that I will be.
EDIT: And I am in complete agreement with what static111 wrote above. Well said!
Wow, anthropocentric? Serves me for discussing topics with the literary class!
I will keep Kunstler in mind. As much as I agree with static and your point, we need to move the needle as quickly as possible with the assets we have. Specifically, these assets are 1) tech and 2) political might.
Implementing solar/wind is turning out to be more difficult than envisioned a few years ago.
Regarding point 1) Projects need to be reviewed carefully. Considering wildfires, we know electricity transmission is inherently complex and dangerous. The challenge with renewables are that they are much smaller in scale than the old fashioned gas fired plants, meaning more projects to generate the same amount of power = time consuming to plan and approve. And there are tons of other issues implementing the tech we have
Regarding 2) if we start telling our “freedom loving” Americans what to do, we might just get ten more years of trump, or however many years until he gracelessly leaves this planet. His next presidency would certainly hurt the climate. People will not accept being told to modify consumption, until it’s too late. They will run towards the climate denial party in droves. So imo, better we use the tools we have, but at a much quicker pace
I wind power really the answer? As much as I am pro "green energy", I have real hesitations about wind power. At what point is it worth sacrificing the aesthetic beauty of our environment, the sounds of nature, the lives of birds, to support 8+ billion humans on the planet?
I just can't see doing this to our environment as being a reasonable solution:
I'm with you Brian, it seems like every time we try to fix things we create more problems. Thrashing ecosystems to put up wind farms is probably not the best idea. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. With reduce of course being first. It is insane that this country was covered with old growth forests and we cut almost all of them down and don't really let the old areas regenerate, just replant straight rows of monocrops instead of mixed forests. We are stupid. I have a feeling nature will cull the human herd to a more manageable level at some point. We can't solve every problem with granular scientific thinking. uh oh I am about to start a rant. Better stop now!
Well said!
"They cut the forest down to build a piece of crap
(PIECE OF CRAP)"
-Neil Young and Crazy Horse
Wow, almost has a feel of maga nation taking over AMT despite that great song reference!
Would a solar farm look any better?
Without wind and solar, whats left other than fossil fuel?
Fortunately, some good news-
“ Critics of wind and solar routinely raise concerns about how much land would be required to decarbonize the US power sector. Fortunately, the answer is relatively little. A recent National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) study shows that it would take less than 1 percent of the land in the Lower 48—that’s an area comparable to or even smaller than the fossil fuel industry’s current footprint. And when wind and solar projects are responsibly sited, the environmental and public health impacts would be far less harmful than those from extracting, producing and burning fossil fuels.”
Hardly, my friend, hardly! You have to know by now that I am hard-core pro environment. But my commitment to the environment stems from a biocentric viewpoint, and wind farms and the equally hideous solar farms stem from an anthropocentric viewpoint. Those arrays serve merely to meet the never-ending voracious and ravenous appetite of humans for the amount of power necessary to continue to live in ways that, in the long run, are unsustainable. A major premise of that desire for power is the on-going false assumption that we can continue to live as a car culture and live based with the predominance of suburbia as a doable lifestyle based on an economy of consumption rather that conservation. That is simply not going to work over time, and as the rest of the developing world strives to follow suit, the closer we edge ourselves towards an inevitable collapse.
Perhaps read James Howard Kunstler's The Long Emergency. I'm not a fan of Kunstler's politics, but when in comes to energy and how our quest for never-ending consumption affect the planet, he has it pegged and explains it all in cleat language. Richard Heinberg, senior fellow of the Post Carbon Institute has written extensively about all this as well.
I have a great deal of frustration over this issue because after studying this stuff for the last 3 or 4 decades, I'm more convinced than ever that we are heading down a blind ally toward imminent collapse. I sincerely believe our desire to continue living an unbalanced consumer oriented lifestyle is wishful thinking and believing that solar and wind farms are going to allow us to continue living that way is a fools fantasy.
I would love to be proved wrong, but highly skeptical that I will be.
EDIT: And I am in complete agreement with what static111 wrote above. Well said!
Did any of the authors discuss a carbon tax for every product from cradle to grave? While totally politically unfeasible, it seems to me to be the only way to drive consumer behaviour.
Regardless, I don’t see the climate changing for the better and think we’ve already passed the tipping point. Server farms to hold everyone’s social media content and crypto mining is guaranteeing that.
I wind power really the answer? As much as I am pro "green energy", I have real hesitations about wind power. At what point is it worth sacrificing the aesthetic beauty of our environment, the sounds of nature, the lives of birds, to support 8+ billion humans on the planet?
I just can't see doing this to our environment as being a reasonable solution:
I'm with you Brian, it seems like every time we try to fix things we create more problems. Thrashing ecosystems to put up wind farms is probably not the best idea. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. With reduce of course being first. It is insane that this country was covered with old growth forests and we cut almost all of them down and don't really let the old areas regenerate, just replant straight rows of monocrops instead of mixed forests. We are stupid. I have a feeling nature will cull the human herd to a more manageable level at some point. We can't solve every problem with granular scientific thinking. uh oh I am about to start a rant. Better stop now!
Well said!
"They cut the forest down to build a piece of crap
(PIECE OF CRAP)"
-Neil Young and Crazy Horse
Wow, almost has a feel of maga nation taking over AMT despite that great song reference!
Would a solar farm look any better?
Without wind and solar, whats left other than fossil fuel?
Fortunately, some good news-
“ Critics of wind and solar routinely raise concerns about how much land would be required to decarbonize the US power sector. Fortunately, the answer is relatively little. A recent National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) study shows that it would take less than 1 percent of the land in the Lower 48—that’s an area comparable to or even smaller than the fossil fuel industry’s current footprint. And when wind and solar projects are responsibly sited, the environmental and public health impacts would be far less harmful than those from extracting, producing and burning fossil fuels.”
Hardly, my friend, hardly! You have to know by now that I am hard-core pro environment. But my commitment to the environment stems from a biocentric viewpoint, and wind farms and the equally hideous solar farms stem from an anthropocentric viewpoint. Those arrays serve merely to meet the never-ending voracious and ravenous appetite of humans for the amount of power necessary to continue to live in ways that, in the long run, are unsustainable. A major premise of that desire for power is the on-going false assumption that we can continue to live as a car culture and live based with the predominance of suburbia as a doable lifestyle based on an economy of consumption rather that conservation. That is simply not going to work over time, and as the rest of the developing world strives to follow suit, the closer we edge ourselves towards an inevitable collapse.
Perhaps read James Howard Kunstler's The Long Emergency. I'm not a fan of Kunstler's politics, but when in comes to energy and how our quest for never-ending consumption affect the planet, he has it pegged and explains it all in cleat language. Richard Heinberg, senior fellow of the Post Carbon Institute has written extensively about all this as well.
I have a great deal of frustration over this issue because after studying this stuff for the last 3 or 4 decades, I'm more convinced than ever that we are heading down a blind ally toward imminent collapse. I sincerely believe our desire to continue living an unbalanced consumer oriented lifestyle is wishful thinking and believing that solar and wind farms are going to allow us to continue living that way is a fools fantasy.
I would love to be proved wrong, but highly skeptical that I will be.
EDIT: And I am in complete agreement with what static111 wrote above. Well said!
Did any of the authors discuss a carbon tax for every product from cradle to grave? While totally politically unfeasible, it seems to me to be the only way to drive consumer behaviour.
Regardless, I don’t see the climate changing for the better and think we’ve already passed the tipping point. Server farms to hold everyone’s social media content and crypto mining is guaranteeing that.
Comments
"I win or its rigged" is 100% anti freedom anti American. Yet they still came out in droves to vote for him
The bottom is a much deeper and darker place. Like with an addict stealing from family and friends to pay for a habit might seem like rock bottom to some of us, but for many it takes far darker and questionable decisions and multiple near death experiences to get out of that hole.
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
www.headstonesband.com
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
THIS is the kind of thing I've been watching for Biden to do, so Kudos there. I hope he continues to move in that direction. It's been a bit of a mixed bag up to now. Although I do understand these are complex issues not easily remedied, we're running out of time.
www.headstonesband.com
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I believe they stopped strip mining for the most part but some are still allowed like quarrys and Borax mining.
I don't think any surmountable pushback is going to stop them from building it. I also don't have enough research to see if any claims against the farm are plausible.
any high tension power lines there?
Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
I'm with you Brian, it seems like every time we try to fix things we create more problems. Thrashing ecosystems to put up wind farms is probably not the best idea. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle. With reduce of course being first. It is insane that this country was covered with old growth forests and we cut almost all of them down and don't really let the old areas regenerate, just replant straight rows of monocrops instead of mixed forests. We are stupid. I have a feeling nature will cull the human herd to a more manageable level at some point. We can't solve every problem with granular scientific thinking. uh oh I am about to start a rant. Better stop now!
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
Without wind and solar, whats left other than fossil fuel?
Fortunately, some good news-
“ Critics of wind and solar routinely raise concerns about how much land would be required to decarbonize the US power sector. Fortunately, the answer is relatively little. A recent National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) study shows that it would take less than 1 percent of the land in the Lower 48—that’s an area comparable to or even smaller than the fossil fuel industry’s current footprint. And when wind and solar projects are responsibly sited, the environmental and public health impacts would be far less harmful than those from extracting, producing and burning fossil fuels.”
https://blog.ucsusa.org/steve-clemmer/how-much-land-would-it-require-to-get-most-of-our-electricity-from-wind-and-solar/
We think we can keep doing things the way they have always done and just switch to a cleaner way of producing energy. We measure everything in terms of carbon and nothing in terms of our destruction of soil and ecosystems by other means. We continue to think that quarter over quarter growth and profit is what makes a success. Switch from fossil fuels all you want. If we do everything else the same we are going to consume the earth into a desert anyway. We need a radical realignment of how we interact with the planet.
Buying the same cheap crap over and over getting new electronics at a greater rate every year consuming more precious and toxic rare earth minerals and just switching to solar and wind still kills the planet. We need to stop being a consumer society.
I realize this sounds vaguely like the unabomber or what have you, but I just don't believe anything short of complete chaos is going to get us to make any necessary changes. We can't on one hand celebrate the growth of the stock market and chastise the destruction of the environment. Those are not two independent things. What causes the market to rise is literally what's killing the environment. A consumer society built on buying crap food, crap products, crap dreams.
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
Perhaps read James Howard Kunstler's The Long Emergency. I'm not a fan of Kunstler's politics, but when in comes to energy and how our quest for never-ending consumption affect the planet, he has it pegged and explains it all in cleat language. Richard Heinberg, senior fellow of the Post Carbon Institute has written extensively about all this as well.
There are no kings inside the gates of eden
My question above was more towards energy generation, if we don’t have solar or wind, we are left with fossil fuel. It took a long time to get renewables viewed favorably. Implementing the current tech is difficult and time consuming. We need to move that needle as fast as possible.
I will keep Kunstler in mind. As much as I agree with static and your point, we need to move the needle as quickly as possible with the assets we have. Specifically, these assets are 1) tech and 2) political might.
Regarding 2) if we start telling our “freedom loving” Americans what to do, we might just get ten more years of trump, or however many years until he gracelessly leaves this planet. His next presidency would certainly hurt the climate. People will not accept being told to modify consumption, until it’s too late. They will run towards the climate denial party in droves. So imo, better we use the tools we have, but at a much quicker pace
Regardless, I don’t see the climate changing for the better and think we’ve already passed the tipping point. Server farms to hold everyone’s social media content and crypto mining is guaranteeing that.
Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.
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There are no kings inside the gates of eden