Swedish climate activist Greta Thunberg on cover of TIME

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  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,130
    edited October 2019
    PJ_Soul said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Only a fool takes pride in driving a car.
    I have to agree. This car addiction in North America is a big problem. So many people are being ridiculously defensive and stubborn when it comes to this topic. Many still seem to think that having a car is some sort of badge of honour or "real" adulthood, and a LOT of people actually look down on those who choose to live car-free. It's quite sad.
    It's a necessity for millions of people,  the day to day logistics of my life could not be done without a vehicle.  
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,694
    edited October 2019
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Only a fool takes pride in driving a car.
    I have to agree. This car addiction in North America is a big problem. So many people are being ridiculously defensive and stubborn when it comes to this topic. Many still seem to think that having a car is some sort of badge of honour or "real" adulthood, and a LOT of people actually look down on those who choose to live car-free. It's quite sad.
    It's a necessity for millions of people,  the day to day logistics of my life could not be done without a vehicle.  
    I am not talking about necessity. That has nothing to do with the point me or S_C are making.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,664
    Smellyman said:
    benjs said:
    Smellyman said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    Smellyman said:
    I haven't had a car payment in 25 years.  single biggest waste of money people spend money on.
    Because you never owned a car or had enough money to buy it outright?
    and if there is no interest how is it a waste of money?
    I retired at 42, some of the reason why, not wasting money on car payments.
    For you, that was your priority. I love my work, and the people I work with are some of my best friends. I'm only 29 so give me 13 years to see whether I'm in the same mental state, but a waste for me would be to not buy a car (as the liberation and flexibility I receive from it to me justifies the cost), and/or to stop using my brain for fulfilling work with great people. 
    Didn't say didn't have car.  no car payments


    I will never understand somebody making 50k a year and buying a 50k car.  tons of people do it though.  Then they move on to the next car and the next round of payments
    I make car payment every month the way my father taught me to.  And I don't pay any interest on those payments.  In fact, I earn interest on them.  How?  By having a car that is already paid for and setting aside money each month in an interest bearing account until there is enough saved up to replace the current vehicle.  Same with everything else I need money for.  For example, every month I set aside money for my car and house insurance.  When the bills comes, the money is there and I pay them-- and keep the interest I earned.  It amazes me how few people have figured out how to budget this way and instead live paycheck-to-paycheck. 
    PJ_Soul said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Only a fool takes pride in driving a car.
    I have to agree. This car addiction in North America is a big problem. So many people are being ridiculously defensive and stubborn when it comes to this topic. Many still seem to think that having a car is some sort of badge of honour or "real" adulthood, and a LOT of people actually look down on those who choose to live car-free. It's quite sad.
    When I lived in San Francisco, I occasionally had an old beater car that ran about just as often as it didn't and when it was down, I got around just fine on Muni buses and street cars and walking.  Where I live now that, that is not possible.  If I could find a livable city here in the U.S. I would do that again but I'm kind of stuck where I am for now.  I do my best to ride share and have as many no-drive days as possible (more and more these days).    The days of car happy driving are numbered and if I were young, I would get myself in a no-car situation again as quickly as possible. 
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,130
    edited October 2019
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Only a fool takes pride in driving a car.
    I have to agree. This car addiction in North America is a big problem. So many people are being ridiculously defensive and stubborn when it comes to this topic. Many still seem to think that having a car is some sort of badge of honour or "real" adulthood, and a LOT of people actually look down on those who choose to live car-free. It's quite sad.
    It's a necessity for millions of people,  the day to day logistics of my life could not be done without a vehicle.  
    I am not talking about necessity. That has nothing to do with the point me or S_C are making.
    I think the difference here is city folk compared to suburband/rural people.  If I moved to a city I wouldn’t have a car but that obviously isn’t reality.  
    Post edited by mcgruff10 on
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • dankind
    dankind Posts: 20,841
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Only a fool takes pride in driving a car.
    I have to agree. This car addiction in North America is a big problem. So many people are being ridiculously defensive and stubborn when it comes to this topic. Many still seem to think that having a car is some sort of badge of honour or "real" adulthood, and a LOT of people actually look down on those who choose to live car-free. It's quite sad.
    It's a necessity for millions of people,  the day to day logistics of my life could not be done without a vehicle.  
    I am not talking about necessity. That has nothing to do with the point me or S_C are making.
    I think the difference here is city folk compared to suburband/rural people.  If I moved to a city I wouldn’t have a car but that obviously isn’t reality.  
    I'd lived in walkable cities for around 25 years, but moved to a shitty suburb in 2015. Other than getting my kids to hockey practice or doc appointments and back, I very rarely drive anywhere. We have two cars for divide-and-conquer days (i.e., when the kids have stuff scheduled at the same time but at different locations), but I still cycle, walk, bum a ride, hop on a bus/train, or take a Lyft basically anywhere I go without the family.
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • oftenreading
    oftenreading Victoria, BC Posts: 12,856
    PJ_Soul said:
    oftenreading said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    oftenreading said:
    In news that will surprise few people, the woman yelling about eating babies is a Trump supporter and member of a far right group with some pretty conspiracy-theory views. 
    That makes a lot of sense.  I'm still intrigued by the swedish professor who thinks it is ok to eat human flesh.  I need to enroll in his class.   You think he does classes online?  Maybe my own classes could chat with him via the internet.  That would make some interesting discussion.  

    Lots of misrepresentation online - again, no surprise. I've been reading up on this to determine if the reporting was correct, and it appears mostly not. The presentation was in Swedish so a little difficult to tell definitively, but both his own clarification in English and some translated comments show that he did not advocate or even suggest eating human flesh. He's a professor of marketing and his research is around understanding acceptability of certain ideas. Part of his talk was around what alternate foods might be acceptable in the future, and where the line will be drawn. The human flesh aspect was part of that progression - e.g., will people eat artificial meat? will people eat insect protein? will people break the cannibalism taboo? Breitbart et al misunderstood, but then again they're not known for subtle distinctions.

    More info provided here:

    https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/swedish-scientist-cannibalism/
    Shut uppa your face - nobody's interested in reality anymore! :nuh_uh:
    Just the facts, ma’am. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,883
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Only a fool takes pride in driving a car.
    I have to agree. This car addiction in North America is a big problem. So many people are being ridiculously defensive and stubborn when it comes to this topic. Many still seem to think that having a car is some sort of badge of honour or "real" adulthood, and a LOT of people actually look down on those who choose to live car-free. It's quite sad.
    It's a necessity for millions of people,  the day to day logistics of my life could not be done without a vehicle.  
    I am not talking about necessity. That has nothing to do with the point me or S_C are making.
    I love cars.  I love driving them.  I love fixing them.  I love rebuilding them.  I love getting dirty underneath them.  I love racing them.  Am I a fool?  Just curious, because I don't feel stupid most of the time, but I love being judged, so fire away.  
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,664
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Only a fool takes pride in driving a car.
    I have to agree. This car addiction in North America is a big problem. So many people are being ridiculously defensive and stubborn when it comes to this topic. Many still seem to think that having a car is some sort of badge of honour or "real" adulthood, and a LOT of people actually look down on those who choose to live car-free. It's quite sad.
    It's a necessity for millions of people,  the day to day logistics of my life could not be done without a vehicle.  
    I am not talking about necessity. That has nothing to do with the point me or S_C are making.
    I love cars.  I love driving them.  I love fixing them.  I love rebuilding them.  I love getting dirty underneath them.  I love racing them.  Am I a fool?  Just curious, because I don't feel stupid most of the time, but I love being judged, so fire away.  
    I get it, M.  I was a big car enthusiast when I was young and sort of still am in a way.  I loved my first car- a mid 60's Riley 1.5 with it's rosewood dash, leather seats and amber blinking turn-signal arm- and equally loved my '65 Chevy Malibu.  And  I have to admit that I really like my Prius.  It gets great gas mileage, it will last at least 300,000 miles.  With back seats that fold flat and a rear hatch, I can haul several boxes of books when I need to. 

    But times are changing.  We need to start finding other things to focus on.
    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited October 2019
    Smellyman said:
    I haven't had a car payment in 25 years.  single biggest waste of money people spend money on.
    I’m with ya.  I know that everyone has priorities, but my #1 priority is to never have credit card or car debt again.  My wife and I set a budget and usually buy low mileage used vehicles.  I wonder if cars would cost so much if everyone refused to take out loans for them?  
    Currently, we have two vehicles, one with 216,000 miles on it (vehicles will run a long time if you take care of them), and another (2011 Chevy Equinox) with 60,000 that we payed $8,000 cash for (when it was at 30,000 miles).  We had budgeted $20,000, but were out for a walk and some old grandad that doesn’t drive anymore had it for sale in his driveway.  
    Currently, even though we have two reliable vehicles, we put put back a portion of our paycheck every month to build up for our next one down the line or any repairs that creep up. I am fine missing out on the latest and greatest, though, and try to invest in things that do not depreciate so fast.  Again, not ragging on anyone, but I hear people saying all the time “you will always have a car payment”, and you definitely do NOT “have” to.
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,883
    edited October 2019
    There's nothing wrong with a car payment if your rate is below the average rate of market return.  You would not pay cash in that scenario under standard economic principles.  If someone is willing to lend you money at 1-5%, which you get during low discount rate times,  you take it all day even if you don't need it.  Take it from a fool. 
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    edited October 2019
    mrussel1 said:
    There's nothing wrong with a car payment if your rate is below the average rate of market return.  You would not pay cash in that scenario under standard economic principles.  If someone is willing to lend you money at 1-5%, which you get during low discount rate times,  you take it all day even if you don't need it.  Take it from a fool. 
    Meh, I would still rather my money be going towards an investment that earns 8-15% than paying towards a loan that essentially makes your cash worth less, even at 1-5%.  If you can take out a 1-5 apr loan (like a business loan or something) and put it towards something that earns over 5%, then I may be on board :)
    edit:  I didn’t see the “below the rate of market returns”, but I still would rather my monthly income not be going towards paying a loan of any kind.
    Post edited by PJPOWER on
  • dignin
    dignin Posts: 9,478
    Since we're talking about cars, I drive a 2006 Kia Sedona. I've had it for 3 years and it runs like a dream.

    I payed $850 CAD for it due to major hail damage, it looks like shit but I love it.
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,883
    PJPOWER said:
    mrussel1 said:
    There's nothing wrong with a car payment if your rate is below the average rate of market return.  You would not pay cash in that scenario under standard economic principles.  If someone is willing to lend you money at 1-5%, which you get during low discount rate times,  you take it all day even if you don't need it.  Take it from a fool. 
    Meh, I would still rather my money be going towards an investment that earns 8-15% than paying towards a loan that essentially makes your cash worth less, even at 1-5%.  If you can take out a 1-5 apr loan (like a business loan or something) and put it towards something that earns over 5%, then I may be on board :)
    No you're reading it wrong.  If you have 30k in cash, you put that in the market and borrow for the car at 2%, hence the 6 to13% lift delta using your numbers.  You don't pay cash for a depreciating asset.  
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    mrussel1 said:
    PJPOWER said:
    mrussel1 said:
    There's nothing wrong with a car payment if your rate is below the average rate of market return.  You would not pay cash in that scenario under standard economic principles.  If someone is willing to lend you money at 1-5%, which you get during low discount rate times,  you take it all day even if you don't need it.  Take it from a fool. 
    Meh, I would still rather my money be going towards an investment that earns 8-15% than paying towards a loan that essentially makes your cash worth less, even at 1-5%.  If you can take out a 1-5 apr loan (like a business loan or something) and put it towards something that earns over 5%, then I may be on board :)
    No you're reading it wrong.  If you have 30k in cash, you put that in the market and borrow for the car at 2%, hence the 6 to13% lift delta using your numbers.  You don't pay cash for a depreciating asset.  
    I see what you are saying :)
  • PJPOWER
    PJPOWER Posts: 6,499
    dignin said:
    Since we're talking about cars, I drive a 2006 Kia Sedona. I've had it for 3 years and it runs like a dream.

    I payed $850 CAD for it due to major hail damage, it looks like shit but I love it.
    Nice!  
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,130
    dankind said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Only a fool takes pride in driving a car.
    I have to agree. This car addiction in North America is a big problem. So many people are being ridiculously defensive and stubborn when it comes to this topic. Many still seem to think that having a car is some sort of badge of honour or "real" adulthood, and a LOT of people actually look down on those who choose to live car-free. It's quite sad.
    It's a necessity for millions of people,  the day to day logistics of my life could not be done without a vehicle.  
    I am not talking about necessity. That has nothing to do with the point me or S_C are making.
    I think the difference here is city folk compared to suburband/rural people.  If I moved to a city I wouldn’t have a car but that obviously isn’t reality.  
    I'd lived in walkable cities for around 25 years, but moved to a shitty suburb in 2015. Other than getting my kids to hockey practice or doc appointments and back, I very rarely drive anywhere. We have two cars for divide-and-conquer days (i.e., when the kids have stuff scheduled at the same time but at different locations), but I still cycle, walk, bum a ride, hop on a bus/train, or take a Lyft basically anywhere I go without the family.
    Do you work at home?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,130
    dignin said:
    Since we're talking about cars, I drive a 2006 Kia Sedona. I've had it for 3 years and it runs like a dream.

    I payed $850 CAD for it due to major hail damage, it looks like shit but I love it.
    That’s awesome!
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • dankind
    dankind Posts: 20,841
    mcgruff10 said:
    dankind said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Only a fool takes pride in driving a car.
    I have to agree. This car addiction in North America is a big problem. So many people are being ridiculously defensive and stubborn when it comes to this topic. Many still seem to think that having a car is some sort of badge of honour or "real" adulthood, and a LOT of people actually look down on those who choose to live car-free. It's quite sad.
    It's a necessity for millions of people,  the day to day logistics of my life could not be done without a vehicle.  
    I am not talking about necessity. That has nothing to do with the point me or S_C are making.
    I think the difference here is city folk compared to suburband/rural people.  If I moved to a city I wouldn’t have a car but that obviously isn’t reality.  
    I'd lived in walkable cities for around 25 years, but moved to a shitty suburb in 2015. Other than getting my kids to hockey practice or doc appointments and back, I very rarely drive anywhere. We have two cars for divide-and-conquer days (i.e., when the kids have stuff scheduled at the same time but at different locations), but I still cycle, walk, bum a ride, hop on a bus/train, or take a Lyft basically anywhere I go without the family.
    Do you work at home?
    Some days, when a kid is sick or the train is delayed/canceled, etc. But most of my work days, I walk to the commuter rail station and take the train to Boston's North Station. From there, I either walk (~40 minutes), ride one of the bikeshare bikes (~15 minutes) or take another train (~whothefuckknowshowlong?) to work in Back Bay.
    I SAW PEARL JAM
  • brianlux
    brianlux Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 43,664

    14 cities around the world that are better for pedestrians than people with cars

    Around the world, some cities are making strides to go car-free.

    Promoting motorless zones not only makes cities more friendly for those on foot or cycling. The change can also improve air quality and congestion as well as help preserve historic streets that might otherwise be damaged by constant use and overcrowding.





    "It's a sad and beautiful world"
    -Roberto Benigni

  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,694
    edited October 2019
    brianlux said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Spiritual_Chaos said:
    Only a fool takes pride in driving a car.
    I have to agree. This car addiction in North America is a big problem. So many people are being ridiculously defensive and stubborn when it comes to this topic. Many still seem to think that having a car is some sort of badge of honour or "real" adulthood, and a LOT of people actually look down on those who choose to live car-free. It's quite sad.
    It's a necessity for millions of people,  the day to day logistics of my life could not be done without a vehicle.  
    I am not talking about necessity. That has nothing to do with the point me or S_C are making.
    I love cars.  I love driving them.  I love fixing them.  I love rebuilding them.  I love getting dirty underneath them.  I love racing them.  Am I a fool?  Just curious, because I don't feel stupid most of the time, but I love being judged, so fire away.  
    I get it, M.  I was a big car enthusiast when I was young and sort of still am in a way.  I loved my first car- a mid 60's Riley 1.5 with it's rosewood dash, leather seats and amber blinking turn-signal arm- and equally loved my '65 Chevy Malibu.  And  I have to admit that I really like my Prius.  It gets great gas mileage, it will last at least 300,000 miles.  With back seats that fold flat and a rear hatch, I can haul several boxes of books when I need to. 

    But times are changing.  We need to start finding other things to focus on.
    Well that is exactly where I'm coming from (and I wasn't calling you a fool mrussel1, but I do think it's somewhat foolish to cling to the fetishization of cars at this point in time). It is simply time for people to start adjusting, and to let go of the car thing to every extent possible where they live. Obviously that includes cars as a hobby. I know people are into them and are really defensive about this concept ... But life isn't always fair, and I think in this case, letting go of the North American car obsession is for the greater good. People are really going to have to start understanding that they are actually going to have to make sacrifices for the sake of the our environment and to change culture towards that end. That doesn't even have to include public transit, but FFS, this strong resistance to even alternative transportation for individuals, like e-cars and e-bikes, is starting to simply come of as selfish and irresponsible.
    Post edited by PJ_Soul on
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata

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