The Democratic Candidates

mcgruff10

Spiritual_Chaos said:

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Here's an opinion piece that pretty well matches my own.

The only thing wrong with Elizabeth Warren’s campaign is the sexist way we react to it

https://www.philly.com/opinion/elizabeth-warren-president-2020-trump-impeachment-free-college-20190423.html?fbclid=IwAR3xpGMC0_eypy9xC9LNwZHmOAZfW5OyklgBXpwtsk5IoCJyaypifzj7LNE

What a dumb dumb dumb article.  Breaking up google and amazon and student loan forgiveness is good policy?  It’s not that we are sexist, they are just really stupid ideas. 

You know I'm not accusing you specifically of being sexist, right?? I'm making a much wider point than that. But as I already said, I really don't expect any of you to get where I'm coming from with this. That doesn't change how deeply I feel it's 100% true that America is absolutely really sexist in its politics (and that that is being reflected in this dem race perfectly well), and I think anyone denying it is being willfully ignorant IMHO.

You don’t expect me to understand yet I voted for two female candidates in the past two years and they both lost. 

The point being...?  I imagine you've voted for men in the past that have lost, too. 

How could I be sexist if I voted for a female presidential candidate and New Jersey governor?

-- What did them winning or losing have to do with anything?

Nothing.  Just stated a fact. 

mcgruff10

oftenreading said:

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Here's an opinion piece that pretty well matches my own.

The only thing wrong with Elizabeth Warren’s campaign is the sexist way we react to it

https://www.philly.com/opinion/elizabeth-warren-president-2020-trump-impeachment-free-college-20190423.html?fbclid=IwAR3xpGMC0_eypy9xC9LNwZHmOAZfW5OyklgBXpwtsk5IoCJyaypifzj7LNE

What a dumb dumb dumb article.  Breaking up google and amazon and student loan forgiveness is good policy?  It’s not that we are sexist, they are just really stupid ideas. 

You know I'm not accusing you specifically of being sexist, right?? I'm making a much wider point than that. But as I already said, I really don't expect any of you to get where I'm coming from with this. That doesn't change how deeply I feel it's 100% true that America is absolutely really sexist in its politics (and that that is being reflected in this dem race perfectly well), and I think anyone denying it is being willfully ignorant IMHO.

You don’t expect me to understand yet I voted for two female candidates in the past two years and they both lost. 

The point being...?  I imagine you've voted for men in the past that have lost, too. 

How could I be sexist if I voted for a female presidential candidate and New Jersey governor?

Do we have to point out that there's a whole lot more to not being sexist than voting for women twice?

I thought we were talking about sexism in politics.  I m just pointing out that regardless of gender I vote for who I think is the best candidate. 

PJ_Soul

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Here's an opinion piece that pretty well matches my own.

The only thing wrong with Elizabeth Warren’s campaign is the sexist way we react to it

https://www.philly.com/opinion/elizabeth-warren-president-2020-trump-impeachment-free-college-20190423.html?fbclid=IwAR3xpGMC0_eypy9xC9LNwZHmOAZfW5OyklgBXpwtsk5IoCJyaypifzj7LNE

What a dumb dumb dumb article.  Breaking up google and amazon and student loan forgiveness is good policy?  It’s not that we are sexist, they are just really stupid ideas. 

You know I'm not accusing you specifically of being sexist, right?? I'm making a much wider point than that. But as I already said, I really don't expect any of you to get where I'm coming from with this. That doesn't change how deeply I feel it's 100% true that America is absolutely really sexist in its politics (and that that is being reflected in this dem race perfectly well), and I think anyone denying it is being willfully ignorant IMHO.

You don’t expect me to understand yet I voted for two female candidates in the past two years and they both lost. 

The point being...?  I imagine you've voted for men in the past that have lost, too. 

How could I be sexist if I voted for a female presidential candidate and New Jersey governor?

Do we have to point out that there's a whole lot more to not being sexist than voting for women twice?

I thought we were talking about sexism in politics.  I m just pointing out that regardless of gender I vote for who I think is the best candidate. 

And I'm talking about a way bigger issue, and you have proven you don't get what I'm even getting at.

I've already posted a few articles here outlining what I mean by all this over the past few weeks, so I think my going into it further is pointless - sorry HFD, I know you asked. I simply don't have the energy right now. I'll continue posting articles that help make my point when I see them.

HughFreakingDillon

PJ Soul's point is not that the individual (you) is sexist, the system and how it is covered is. 

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ Soul's point is not that the individual (you) is sexist, the system and how it is covered is. 

Yes, thank you.

cincybearcat

It’s generally not a good strategy to say

1) I don’t expect any of you to understand this 


I do believe sexism plays a role, even in the Dems election process. I do not think it’s the only reason some women are not getting traction while some men are. I do believe that so many women running is a sign of progress and all things being equal, gender should play a role. That role being vote for the women all things being equal. 

I think warren is getting a decent amount of press. She is just boring, so not capturing ears. She also focuses on policy which unfortunately appears to be a bad campaign strategy (see trumps win). But for me I just don’t like her policies. And I think Bernie is just as boring/annoying with bad policies. He just has some weird fan base since he has been working at this (presidential campaign) much longer than Warren. 

I think Harris is screwing herself. Inability to answer tough questions makes the media cover less. But she could totally dominate the airwaves if she wanted to...ala Pete.

Ill see how this thing shakes out before I decide if, in my opinion, sexism played a big role.

Let me ask you this - who would be your vote right now?

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

mcgruff10 said:

oftenreading said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

mcgruff10 said:

PJ_Soul said:

Here's an opinion piece that pretty well matches my own.

The only thing wrong with Elizabeth Warren’s campaign is the sexist way we react to it

https://www.philly.com/opinion/elizabeth-warren-president-2020-trump-impeachment-free-college-20190423.html?fbclid=IwAR3xpGMC0_eypy9xC9LNwZHmOAZfW5OyklgBXpwtsk5IoCJyaypifzj7LNE

What a dumb dumb dumb article.  Breaking up google and amazon and student loan forgiveness is good policy?  It’s not that we are sexist, they are just really stupid ideas. 

You know I'm not accusing you specifically of being sexist, right?? I'm making a much wider point than that. But as I already said, I really don't expect any of you to get where I'm coming from with this. That doesn't change how deeply I feel it's 100% true that America is absolutely really sexist in its politics (and that that is being reflected in this dem race perfectly well), and I think anyone denying it is being willfully ignorant IMHO.

You don’t expect me to understand yet I voted for two female candidates in the past two years and they both lost. 

The point being...?  I imagine you've voted for men in the past that have lost, too. 

How could I be sexist if I voted for a female presidential candidate and New Jersey governor?

Do we have to point out that there's a whole lot more to not being sexist than voting for women twice?

I thought we were talking about sexism in politics.  I m just pointing out that regardless of gender I vote for who I think is the best candidate. 

And I'm talking about a way bigger issue, and you have proven you don't get what I'm even getting at.

I've already posted a few articles here outlining what I mean by all this over the past few weeks, so I think my going into it further is pointless - sorry HFD, I know you asked. I simply don't have the energy right now. I'll continue posting articles that help make my point when I see them.

to be fair to McGruff, I can see where he easily misunderstood your point, since you didn't really articulate it (today). I haven't seen anything beyond the article you posted today. 

I just think it's important, if you state something as harsh as "none of you men are going to understand my point",  to actually expand on that point. obviously, if you wish not to, that's your prerogative. 

erebus

Women, get out and vote and change the system. Women out number men in the US
be the change you want to be
you already see a good start in participation and female canidates running and being elected
good ideas are not gender specific and neither are bad ones 

good canidates will rise to the top .... Hopefully

Spiritual_Chaos

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ Soul's point is not that the individual (you) is sexist, the system and how it is covered is. 

Yes, thank you.

For 2019.

Biden was Obamas VP and is a household name so ofc he will get attention.

Bernie Sanders is still hot off the 2016 (or 15?) election and was the media darling underdog back then. 

Beto fought - and air drummed - in Texas and almost won, and there has been talks about him running for president since then.

But look at Warren and Harris - they do get attention.

Not saying the system isn't sexist. But Warren is in the media alot.


 

mcgruff10

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ Soul's point is not that the individual (you) is sexist, the system and how it is covered is. 

Understood, thank you for explaining.  It definitely was not articulated well. 

PJ_Soul

cincybearcat said:

It’s generally not a good strategy to say

1) I don’t expect any of you to understand this 


I do believe sexism plays a role, even in the Dems election process. I do not think it’s the only reason some women are not getting traction while some men are. I do believe that so many women running is a sign of progress and all things being equal, gender should play a role. That role being vote for the women all things being equal. 

I think warren is getting a decent amount of press. She is just boring, so not capturing ears. She also focuses on policy which unfortunately appears to be a bad campaign strategy (see trumps win). But for me I just don’t like her policies. And I think Bernie is just as boring/annoying with bad policies. He just has some weird fan base since he has been working at this (presidential campaign) much longer than Warren. 

I think Harris is screwing herself. Inability to answer tough questions makes the media cover less. But she could totally dominate the airwaves if she wanted to...ala Pete.

Ill see how this thing shakes out before I decide if, in my opinion, sexism played a big role.

Let me ask you this - who would be your vote right now?

It's not a strategy. I say that because hardly anyone ever understands it. I say it because of experience with people's reaction to the concept. And the resistance and knee jerk reactions I always get have me completely fed up.

HughFreakingDillon

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

It’s generally not a good strategy to say

1) I don’t expect any of you to understand this 


I do believe sexism plays a role, even in the Dems election process. I do not think it’s the only reason some women are not getting traction while some men are. I do believe that so many women running is a sign of progress and all things being equal, gender should play a role. That role being vote for the women all things being equal. 

I think warren is getting a decent amount of press. She is just boring, so not capturing ears. She also focuses on policy which unfortunately appears to be a bad campaign strategy (see trumps win). But for me I just don’t like her policies. And I think Bernie is just as boring/annoying with bad policies. He just has some weird fan base since he has been working at this (presidential campaign) much longer than Warren. 

I think Harris is screwing herself. Inability to answer tough questions makes the media cover less. But she could totally dominate the airwaves if she wanted to...ala Pete.

Ill see how this thing shakes out before I decide if, in my opinion, sexism played a big role.

Let me ask you this - who would be your vote right now?

It's not a strategy. I say that because hardly anyone ever understands it. I say it because of experience with people's reaction to the concept. And the resistance and knee jerk reactions I always get have me completely fed up.

beyond the concept, which is sexism is politics, I don't really know what we, as a collective, fail to understand, as I haven't personally seen anything where you've tried to explain it. If you have already and don't wish to rehash, fine, I just haven't seen it. 

oftenreading

Spiritual_Chaos said:

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ Soul's point is not that the individual (you) is sexist, the system and how it is covered is. 

Yes, thank you.

For 2019.

Biden was Obamas VP and is a household name so ofc he will get attention.

Bernie Sanders is still hot off the 2016 (or 15?) election and was the media darling underdog back then. 

Beto fought - and air drummed - in Texas and almost won, and there has been talks about him running for president since then.

But look at Warren and Harris - they do get attention.

Not saying the system isn't sexist. But Warren is in the media alot.


 

What's the quality of the coverage, though? Being "in the media a lot" doesn't guarantee non-sexist coverage. That's never going to be accurately assessed in a graph like that, but the coverage of women often focuses far more on appearance and issues like how they get along with people, how "warm" they are, which is different than how men are covered.

PJ_Soul

^^^ Absolutely. It's a complicated fact.

PJ_Soul

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

It’s generally not a good strategy to say

1) I don’t expect any of you to understand this 


I do believe sexism plays a role, even in the Dems election process. I do not think it’s the only reason some women are not getting traction while some men are. I do believe that so many women running is a sign of progress and all things being equal, gender should play a role. That role being vote for the women all things being equal. 

I think warren is getting a decent amount of press. She is just boring, so not capturing ears. She also focuses on policy which unfortunately appears to be a bad campaign strategy (see trumps win). But for me I just don’t like her policies. And I think Bernie is just as boring/annoying with bad policies. He just has some weird fan base since he has been working at this (presidential campaign) much longer than Warren. 

I think Harris is screwing herself. Inability to answer tough questions makes the media cover less. But she could totally dominate the airwaves if she wanted to...ala Pete.

Ill see how this thing shakes out before I decide if, in my opinion, sexism played a big role.

Let me ask you this - who would be your vote right now?

It's not a strategy. I say that because hardly anyone ever understands it. I say it because of experience with people's reaction to the concept. And the resistance and knee jerk reactions I always get have me completely fed up.

beyond the concept, which is sexism is politics, I don't really know what we, as a collective, fail to understand, as I haven't personally seen anything where you've tried to explain it. If you have already and don't wish to rehash, fine, I just haven't seen it. 

Fair enough. I would go more into it, but I'm just too fucking sad and depressed right now. My cat died and I'm finding myself too devastated to have the drive to debate much.

Meltdown99

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

It’s generally not a good strategy to say

1) I don’t expect any of you to understand this 


I do believe sexism plays a role, even in the Dems election process. I do not think it’s the only reason some women are not getting traction while some men are. I do believe that so many women running is a sign of progress and all things being equal, gender should play a role. That role being vote for the women all things being equal. 

I think warren is getting a decent amount of press. She is just boring, so not capturing ears. She also focuses on policy which unfortunately appears to be a bad campaign strategy (see trumps win). But for me I just don’t like her policies. And I think Bernie is just as boring/annoying with bad policies. He just has some weird fan base since he has been working at this (presidential campaign) much longer than Warren. 

I think Harris is screwing herself. Inability to answer tough questions makes the media cover less. But she could totally dominate the airwaves if she wanted to...ala Pete.

Ill see how this thing shakes out before I decide if, in my opinion, sexism played a big role.

Let me ask you this - who would be your vote right now?

It's not a strategy. I say that because hardly anyone ever understands it. I say it because of experience with people's reaction to the concept. And the resistance and knee jerk reactions I always get have me completely fed up.

beyond the concept, which is sexism is politics, I don't really know what we, as a collective, fail to understand, as I haven't personally seen anything where you've tried to explain it. If you have already and don't wish to rehash, fine, I just haven't seen it. 

Fair enough. I would go more into it, but I'm just too fucking sad and depressed right now. My cat died and I'm finding myself too devastated to have the drive to debate much.

Sorry to hear about your cat...

Spiritual_Chaos

PJ_Soul said:

HughFreakingDillon said:

PJ_Soul said:

cincybearcat said:

It’s generally not a good strategy to say

1) I don’t expect any of you to understand this 


I do believe sexism plays a role, even in the Dems election process. I do not think it’s the only reason some women are not getting traction while some men are. I do believe that so many women running is a sign of progress and all things being equal, gender should play a role. That role being vote for the women all things being equal. 

I think warren is getting a decent amount of press. She is just boring, so not capturing ears. She also focuses on policy which unfortunately appears to be a bad campaign strategy (see trumps win). But for me I just don’t like her policies. And I think Bernie is just as boring/annoying with bad policies. He just has some weird fan base since he has been working at this (presidential campaign) much longer than Warren. 

I think Harris is screwing herself. Inability to answer tough questions makes the media cover less. But she could totally dominate the airwaves if she wanted to...ala Pete.

Ill see how this thing shakes out before I decide if, in my opinion, sexism played a big role.

Let me ask you this - who would be your vote right now?

It's not a strategy. I say that because hardly anyone ever understands it. I say it because of experience with people's reaction to the concept. And the resistance and knee jerk reactions I always get have me completely fed up.

beyond the concept, which is sexism is politics, I don't really know what we, as a collective, fail to understand, as I haven't personally seen anything where you've tried to explain it. If you have already and don't wish to rehash, fine, I just haven't seen it. 

Fair enough. I would go more into it, but I'm just too fucking sad and depressed right now. My cat died and I'm finding myself too devastated to have the drive to debate much.

Oh, I'm so sorry :(

cincybearcat

Cats are awesome. Sorry for your loss PJ Soul

PJ_Soul

Thanks all. It's tough. :(

Meltdown99

PJ_Soul said:

Thanks all. It's tough. :(

It is.  Take as much time as you need to grieve.  Pets are very much family.