The Democratic Candidates

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Comments

  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 21,044
    what about the Swedish meatballs?  

    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 18,141
    mrussel1 said:
    ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
    Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.  
    In the US,  it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.


    unimplementable ideas are useless. little to nothing he proposes gets past 2/3s in the Senate.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 17,571
    mrussel1 said:
    ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
    Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.  
    In the US,  it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.


    Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.  
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 21,044
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
    Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.  
    In the US,  it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.


    Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.  
    So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?

    I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?

    So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 21,044
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
    Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.  
    In the US,  it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.


    unimplementable ideas are useless. little to nothing he proposes gets past 2/3s in the Senate.
    Okey, Pelosi. haha.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 17,571
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
    Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.  
    In the US,  it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.


    Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.  
    So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?

    I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?

    So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
    Progress is not synonymous with progressive.  They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same.  None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.  

  • mickeyratmickeyrat Posts: 18,141
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
    Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.  
    In the US,  it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.


    unimplementable ideas are useless. little to nothing he proposes gets past 2/3s in the Senate.
    Okey, Pelosi. haha.
    fact , douche.
    _____________________________________SIGNATURE________________________________________________

    Not today Sir, Probably not tomorrow.............................................. bayfront arena st. pete '94
    you're finally here and I'm a mess................................................... nationwide arena columbus '10
    memories like fingerprints are slowly raising.................................... first niagara center buffalo '13
    another man ..... moved by sleight of hand...................................... joe louis arena detroit '14
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 17,571
    mickeyrat said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
    Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.  
    In the US,  it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.


    unimplementable ideas are useless. little to nothing he proposes gets past 2/3s in the Senate.
    Okey, Pelosi. haha.
    Okay reality.. ha ha.. who needs reality when you can just type shit.  
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 21,044
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
    Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.  
    In the US,  it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.


    Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.  
    So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?

    I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?

    So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
    Progress is not synonymous with progressive.  They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same.  None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.  

    Okey. Well my point still stands.
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 21,044
    Should Elisabeth Warren start calling Trump "Brokahontas" like Bill Maher thinks?
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 17,571
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
    Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.  
    In the US,  it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.


    Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.  
    So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?

    I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?

    So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
    Progress is not synonymous with progressive.  They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same.  None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.  

    Okey. Well my point still stands.
    So does mine.  Bernie's policies, by and large, are not progressive.  I don't like them.  
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 21,044
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
    Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.  
    In the US,  it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.


    Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.  
    So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?

    I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?

    So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
    Progress is not synonymous with progressive.  They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same.  None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.  

    Okey. Well my point still stands.
    So does mine.  Bernie's policies, by and large, are not progressive.  I don't like them.  
    list some policies of his you do not like?
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 17,571
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
    Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.  
    In the US,  it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.


    Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.  
    So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?

    I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?

    So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
    Progress is not synonymous with progressive.  They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same.  None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.  

    Okey. Well my point still stands.
    So does mine.  Bernie's policies, by and large, are not progressive.  I don't like them.  
    list some policies of his you do not like?
    Free college tuition and debt forgiveness.  These are not progressive.  They disproportionately help middle class white people. 
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 23,358
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
    Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.  
    In the US,  it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.


    Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.  
    So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?

    I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?

    So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
    Progress is not synonymous with progressive.  They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same.  None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.  

    Okey. Well my point still stands.
    So does mine.  Bernie's policies, by and large, are not progressive.  I don't like them.  
    list some policies of his you do not like?
    Free college tuition and debt forgiveness.  These are not progressive.  They disproportionately help middle class white people. 
    And how the hell do you  pay for that?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 17,571
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
    Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.  
    In the US,  it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.


    Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.  
    So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?

    I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?

    So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
    Progress is not synonymous with progressive.  They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same.  None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.  

    Okey. Well my point still stands.
    So does mine.  Bernie's policies, by and large, are not progressive.  I don't like them.  
    list some policies of his you do not like?
    Free college tuition and debt forgiveness.  These are not progressive.  They disproportionately help middle class white people. 
    And how the hell do you  pay for that?
    He had a whole tax structure for it,  but regardless it's not progressive.  Buy contrast,  Warren's early child care and Bidens Title III education proposal were far more progressive and less socialist 
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 21,044
    edited June 2019
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
    Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.  
    In the US,  it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.


    Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.  
    So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?

    I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?

    So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
    Progress is not synonymous with progressive.  They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same.  None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.  

    Okey. Well my point still stands.
    So does mine.  Bernie's policies, by and large, are not progressive.  I don't like them.  
    list some policies of his you do not like?
    Free college tuition and debt forgiveness.  These are not progressive.  They disproportionately help middle class white people. 
    Debt forgiveness I do not understand.

    Free college tuition - didn't you already have that  decades ago in the states (?). I don't see any reason why you should have a paywall to help rich people get better education (but maybe there is one). If Sweden, and other countries, can have "free tuition" and no paywall to get into a College and University - then I vote PROGRESS on that one. 



    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 17,571
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
    Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.  
    In the US,  it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.


    Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.  
    So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?

    I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?

    So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
    Progress is not synonymous with progressive.  They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same.  None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.  

    Okey. Well my point still stands.
    So does mine.  Bernie's policies, by and large, are not progressive.  I don't like them.  
    list some policies of his you do not like?
    Free college tuition and debt forgiveness.  These are not progressive.  They disproportionately help middle class white people. 
    Debt forgiveness I do not understand.

    Free college tuition - didn't you already have that  decades ago in the states (?). I don't see any reason why you should have a paywall to help rich people get better education (but maybe there is one). If Sweden, and other countries, can have "free tuition" and no paywall to get into a College and University - then I vote PROGRESS on that one. 



    You don't have a vote and you still don't understand the political distinction I am drawing.  
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 21,044
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
    Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.  
    In the US,  it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.


    Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.  
    So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?

    I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?

    So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
    Progress is not synonymous with progressive.  They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same.  None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.  

    Okey. Well my point still stands.
    So does mine.  Bernie's policies, by and large, are not progressive.  I don't like them.  
    list some policies of his you do not like?
    Free college tuition and debt forgiveness.  These are not progressive.  They disproportionately help middle class white people. 
    Debt forgiveness I do not understand.

    Free college tuition - didn't you already have that  decades ago in the states (?). I don't see any reason why you should have a paywall to help rich people get better education (but maybe there is one). If Sweden, and other countries, can have "free tuition" and no paywall to get into a College and University - then I vote PROGRESS on that one. 



    You don't have a vote and you still don't understand the political distinction I am drawing.  
    Your distinction is moot. I'm not talking about your distinction.  

    Moving towards a European model of not paywalling people out of education in the Twilight Zone of America is PROGRESS.

    I press that button again:




    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 21,044
    Good night now. It's 2:30 AM here, and I'm gonna wash clothes at 08:00. 
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 17,571
    Also,  a paywall in the states is when you have to pay to access content in a website.  I don't understand how you are using it. 
  • mcgruff10mcgruff10 New JerseyPosts: 23,358
    edited June 2019
    mrussel1 said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
    Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.  
    In the US,  it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.


    Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.  
    So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?

    I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?

    So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
    Progress is not synonymous with progressive.  They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same.  None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.  

    Okey. Well my point still stands.
    So does mine.  Bernie's policies, by and large, are not progressive.  I don't like them.  
    list some policies of his you do not like?
    Free college tuition and debt forgiveness.  These are not progressive.  They disproportionately help middle class white people. 
    And how the hell do you  pay for that?
    He had a whole tax structure for it,  but regardless it's not progressive.  Buy contrast,  Warren's early child care and Bidens Title III education proposal were far more progressive and less socialist 
    I ll have to read up on Biden s proposal. I think free public education pre-k to 12 is great. No need to expand it to college.  

    Post edited by mcgruff10 on
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • Halifax2TheMaxHalifax2TheMax Posts: 24,092
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:

    We do appreciate that you aren't critical of the US (and Canada) for saving your country.  That's big of you.  
    Well ofc. I am able to be objective. 

    That is one of the perks of not being raised in a country with an alarming amount of spoon-feeding of nationalism and singing the national anthem 15-16 times a day. :P 
     
    (And for some perspective, the US didn't join the war for over two years before they themselves were attacked)

    A lot of people died with the US being neutral for those two years. A shame.
    This is pretty dumb.  
    The entire conversation is.
    So long as he feels compelled to make one statement that he thinks encompasses 300 million people,  I'm going to do the same.  The ignorance is astounding to me and I won't sitand not write back.  We've been through it 5 different times at least. 
    Oh, the irony 
    Find a statement that I've made, unprovoked by your ass, that is USA#1, rah rah.  You won't find it.  We'll go through this cycle again next time you make a similarly disparaging statement for no reason.  Unfortunately I have to keep going back to WW2 because Sweden is inconsequential post the Viking invasion of Wessex until then, and after.  
    Sweden may be a nice country to live, but the grass is not always greener on the other side.  So far SC has not said one thing that would make me want to live there...
    There is no way I'd choose Sweden over Canada, 
    Well. You have that concert hall in Vancouver where you won't even see Neil Young (!) and Sweden has the national arena "Friends Arena" where Eddie had to make excuses from the stage about how they "did all they could to make the sound OK, but they have heard about the problems regarding the sound in the arena".

    It's a coin toss. :P
    I’m comfortable not seeing Neil anywhere near me. 
     
    Agree. Neil is awful. 
    No wine with ice for you! And revocation of citizenship for the other!!
     
    09/15/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/29/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield, MA; 08/18/08, O2 London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA;

    "If you're looking down on someone, it better be to extend them a hand to lift them up."

    Libtardaplorable©. And proud of it.

    Brilliantati©
  • oftenreadingoftenreading Victoria, BCPosts: 11,090
    mcgruff10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    mrussel1 said:

    We do appreciate that you aren't critical of the US (and Canada) for saving your country.  That's big of you.  
    Well ofc. I am able to be objective. 

    That is one of the perks of not being raised in a country with an alarming amount of spoon-feeding of nationalism and singing the national anthem 15-16 times a day. :P 
     
    (And for some perspective, the US didn't join the war for over two years before they themselves were attacked)

    A lot of people died with the US being neutral for those two years. A shame.
    This is pretty dumb.  
    The entire conversation is.
    So long as he feels compelled to make one statement that he thinks encompasses 300 million people,  I'm going to do the same.  The ignorance is astounding to me and I won't sitand not write back.  We've been through it 5 different times at least. 
    Oh, the irony 
    Find a statement that I've made, unprovoked by your ass, that is USA#1, rah rah.  You won't find it.  We'll go through this cycle again next time you make a similarly disparaging statement for no reason.  Unfortunately I have to keep going back to WW2 because Sweden is inconsequential post the Viking invasion of Wessex until then, and after.  
    Sweden may be a nice country to live, but the grass is not always greener on the other side.  So far SC has not said one thing that would make me want to live there...
    There is no way I'd choose Sweden over Canada, 
    Well. You have that concert hall in Vancouver where you won't even see Neil Young (!) and Sweden has the national arena "Friends Arena" where Eddie had to make excuses from the stage about how they "did all they could to make the sound OK, but they have heard about the problems regarding the sound in the arena".

    It's a coin toss. :P
    I’m comfortable not seeing Neil anywhere near me. 
     
    Agree. Neil is awful. 
    No wine with ice for you! And revocation of citizenship for the other!!
     
    I spend more time in Canada than Neil does. 
    my small self... like a book amongst the many on a shelf
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,528
    benjs said:
    mcgruff10 said:
    What makes you think the us education system is failing? If anything at least around here it is better than ever. (New Jersey is ranked either 1 or 2 in the us)
    and remember, standardized tests are just a snapshot off the students year. 
    I am beginning to think if someone says something positive about the US others will go out of there way to also disparage the US...anyways...Arizona would be my winter home if I could afford it.  Sedona to be specific.  And Canada would remain my permanent home.


    Went to Sedona last year after a conference and holy crap was it ever beautiful!
    It really is.  There is some really nice hiking in the area as well.  I did the Oak Creek Canyon Drive, really beautiful...
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,528
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
    Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.  
    In the US,  it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.


    Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.  
    So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?

    I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?

    So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
    Progress is not synonymous with progressive.  They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same.  None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.  

    Okey. Well my point still stands.
    So does mine.  Bernie's policies, by and large, are not progressive.  I don't like them.  
    list some policies of his you do not like?
    Free college tuition and debt forgiveness.  These are not progressive.  They disproportionately help middle class white people. 
    Are there not college's that offer a good education that is affordable for many/most?  I just always assumed the ones that drive people into extreme debt is Harvard's, Michigan, Usc type schools?  
  • mrussel1mrussel1 Posts: 17,571
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
    Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.  
    In the US,  it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.


    Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.  
    So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?

    I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?

    So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
    Progress is not synonymous with progressive.  They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same.  None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.  

    Okey. Well my point still stands.
    So does mine.  Bernie's policies, by and large, are not progressive.  I don't like them.  
    list some policies of his you do not like?
    Free college tuition and debt forgiveness.  These are not progressive.  They disproportionately help middle class white people. 
    Are there not college's that offer a good education that is affordable for many/most?  I just always assumed the ones that drive people into extreme debt is Harvard's, Michigan, Usc type schools?  
    Yes absolutely.  You can do two years of junior college and then transfer to a state university.  People make bad choices and attend private and out of state colleges,  substantially increasing their debt.  And for those that are from truly disadvantaged backgrounds,  there are plenty of federal grants. 
    You can also do what my daughter is doing now. She took AP classes in high school so she had over 25 credits when she entered William and Mary,  a public school.  Then she maxed out each semester at 18 credits. The price was the same whether you do 12 or 18. So she will graduate a full year early,  saving us a good chunk.  
  • Meltdown99Meltdown99 None Of Your Business...Posts: 7,528
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
    Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.  
    In the US,  it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.


    Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.  
    So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?

    I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?

    So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
    Progress is not synonymous with progressive.  They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same.  None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.  

    Okey. Well my point still stands.
    So does mine.  Bernie's policies, by and large, are not progressive.  I don't like them.  
    list some policies of his you do not like?
    Free college tuition and debt forgiveness.  These are not progressive.  They disproportionately help middle class white people. 
    Are there not college's that offer a good education that is affordable for many/most?  I just always assumed the ones that drive people into extreme debt is Harvard's, Michigan, Usc type schools?  
    Yes absolutely.  You can do two years of junior college and then transfer to a state university.  People make bad choices and attend private and out of state colleges,  substantially increasing their debt.  And for those that are from truly disadvantaged backgrounds,  there are plenty of federal grants. 
    You can also do what my daughter is doing now. She took AP classes in high school so she had over 25 credits when she entered William and Mary,  a public school.  Then she maxed out each semester at 18 credits. The price was the same whether you do 12 or 18. So she will graduate a full year early,  saving us a good chunk.  
    It sounds like there are plenty of options...no matter the income level.  
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 8,220
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    ANY BERNIE FANS IN DA HOUSE?!
    Bernie's non-progressive values annoy the shit out of me.  
    In the US,  it would impossible for his ideas not to be considered progress.


    Socialist and progressive are not interchangeable terms.  
    So, please tell me in what way would tax funded health care not be progress in this country of yours?

    I mean, how many years behind the rest of the world are you with that basic idea?

    So yes, from where you stand as a country -- some social democratic values, that spread through more successful democracies decades ago, would be progress for you. Because you are Twilight Zone levels of behind in the name of capitalism and political corruption.
    Progress is not synonymous with progressive.  They may overlap from a terms perspective, but they are not the same, just like socialism is not always the same.  None of your last paragraph has anything to do with the distinction I'm drawing between a progressive policy and socialist policy.  

    Okey. Well my point still stands.
    So does mine.  Bernie's policies, by and large, are not progressive.  I don't like them.  
    list some policies of his you do not like?
    Free college tuition and debt forgiveness.  These are not progressive.  They disproportionately help middle class white people. 
    Debt forgiveness I do not understand.

    Free college tuition - didn't you already have that  decades ago in the states (?). I don't see any reason why you should have a paywall to help rich people get better education (but maybe there is one). If Sweden, and other countries, can have "free tuition" and no paywall to get into a College and University - then I vote PROGRESS on that one. 



    You don't have a vote and you still don't understand the political distinction I am drawing.  
    Your distinction is moot. I'm not talking about your distinction.  

    Moving towards a European model of not paywalling people out of education in the Twilight Zone of America is PROGRESS.

    I press that button again:




    In Canada we have highly subsidized education for college/university (I suppose somewhere between the States and no-pay countries in Europe, closer to Europe) but I have to say - this is socialism, and this is something palatable to Canadians. Ramming these same concepts down the throats of Americans is only progress if they’re accepted by the people and the lawmakers (and if they’re viable economically), and frankly, I don’t see it being accepted by any group based on the sentiments seen in the country today. It’s only progress if the needle moves - if the ideas are too stigmatized to succeed then trying to make them succeed is asinine. Before cranking it to 11, recognizing the polarization which exists today and making smaller moves in a direction we see as valid will likely be the only way these reforms pass. You can have the best ideas in the world but if you can’t execute then there’s the real moot point.

    Also, I don’t know if I’d like Sanders’ plan, and maybe that’s because four fucking bullet points isn’t a plan. Biden’s plan linked for contrast. These both are written so politically - all glorious things which ‘will happen if I become President’ without discussing downstream/upstream of the plan.  

    https://berniesanders.com/issues/college-for-all/
    https://joebiden.com/education/

    Finally, why does everything someone doesn’t like on here need a fucking nickname? Do you need to show smug elitism at least once per post? It’s not helping you sell your ideas which is why you start to resemble a troll on here.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Spiritual_ChaosSpiritual_Chaos Posts: 21,044
    edited June 2019
    benjs said:
    which is why you start to resemble a troll on here.
    Well, I am from the city of:



    Notice the sticker put on the cars rolling out of our once beautiful SAAB factory:



    Here is Jay Leno driving one, notice the sticker:



    My take is though, people who consider me a "troll" need to look themselves in the mirror. Your country will not cry itself to sleep because I gave it a nickname. It is not a person. I understand it is the land of the free and a nation under god. But it is not crying itself to sleep. I can assure you.

    Obviously I can understand if it did cry itself to sleep, being played like a harp from hell by Trump, the corrupt republicans and people not being able to see other countries do some things a lot better and more sane.
    Post edited by Spiritual_Chaos on
    "Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
  • benjsbenjs Toronto, ONPosts: 8,220
    benjs said:
    which is why you start to resemble a troll on here.
    Well, I am from the city of:



    Notice the sticker put on the cars rolling out of our once beautiful SAAB factory:



    Here is Jay Leno driving one, notice the sticker:



    My take is though, people who consider me a "troll" need to look themselves in the mirror. Your country will not cry itself to sleep because I gave it a nickname. It is not a person. I understand it is the land of the free and a nation under god. But it is not crying itself to sleep. I can assure you.

    Obviously I can understand if it did cry itself to sleep, being played like a harp from hell by Trump, the corrupt republicans and people not being able to see other countries do some things a lot better and more sane.
    Please don’t treat me like an idiot. I know you’re not talking to a country - you’re talking to residents of one and your stupid names regularly change the conversation dramatically from the thing that you’re advocating for. On the topic of mirrors - why don’t you look at your posts here and see how they stoke the flames of what you call nationalism on here, propagating the thing you claim to hate the most. You’re also mockingly bringing up the land of the free bullshit yet again, not anyone else. 

    Thanks also for ignoring the substantial part of my message and focusing on one sentence. You present ideas that work in Sweden like they should just be plug-and-play, and boom, progress. Things don’t exist in vacuums and what works in one nation may be a noble aspiration for another, but still likely won’t be feasible in such a polarized political and socioeconomic environment as the US today. 

    For example, Republicans have already weaponized socialistic behaviours, and college-for-all will be exclusively cost for the entire tenure of a hypothetical Sanders presidency. That will be inevitably be exploited as proof of the socialistic boogeyman. In addition, while you have consensus in your mind (so nice and easy to form consensus with a party of one) America doesn’t share your confidence about the direction it should take. Also, my stance that these ideas will not reach a chance to move forward is not without precedence: Bernie ran on the same platform last time and where did that get him? What you would call the corrupt system is the only system the States have to work with right now, and if a politician can’t operate within it to sell their ideas successfully, their ideas are clearly doomed. I will take a smaller amount of progress in progressive directions over no amount of progress due to an unwillingness to compromise to anything less than glorious Swedish levels any day.

    One last note, while I am a dual citizen of Canada and the US, I would not claim to call the States ‘my country’ having never lived there before. Not a big deal though.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
This discussion has been closed.