Naive is too kind a word to describe someone who would vote third party when Trump is on the ballot.
I had no problem voting for Stein in 2016. Hillary was a shoe in for the electoral college votes in California and although I obviously thought she was better than Trump, I didn't like either. I was very fortunate to be able to vote 3rd party with a clear conscience.
I wish enough others had done the same so as to start a trend toward the acceptance of third (or more) parties. Why are we so locked into a two party system,? Why are we so afraid of change? Even if this is seen as "dreaming", when did people stop having dreams for a better world? Do we really want to keep going down the same road that we know damn well is leading us further and further into a place that is bad for us (not to mention, bad for the planet)? Do we really want to be cattle moseying along in a stupor headed for our own self-imposed slaughter? Not me.
Well there's the real irony right? You could vote Stein knowing it didn't matter. Ergo you could have stayed home too.
The question is, what would you have done if you lived in Pennsylvania?
Voted for whatever candidate he felt best lined up with his political beliefs and values?
So Hillary, as he stated. Because he clearly understood the ramifications and political reality of our system.
Have no problem with that, at all, whichis my point... just like i would have no problem if he voted Stein, Gary, Trump, or Mickey Mouse. I might disagree with someones choice, but don't have a problem with it, it's their vote
The doomsday "you must vote Democrat, or die" routine is silly and shortsighted to me, that's all.
I agree and yet I understand why so many feel that way. It's easy to see why some would say, a vote for Mickey Mouse is a vote for Trump.
But then we need to stop and ask ourselves if we are willing to take risks to be true to our belief in democracy. In the next election, if one of the candidates on the ballot is someone I truly believe in, I will ask myself "How much do I believe in democracy?" and what risk am I willing to take to stand by what I believe?
The fact is, I didn't vote in Pennsylvania. If I had, would I have voted for Stein? Maybe, but but it's hard to say. In retrospect, I'm not as much a fan as I was at the time. Lesson learned- when I think I know enough about a candidate, I need to say, "No, you don't. Keep studying." If, in 2020, if I do that and still feel very strongly about someone running that may not have a great chance of winning, I will probably vote for them... and then get roasted here. It's better to be true to oneself than worry about the criticism.
Besides, those who want a democrat to win, any democrat, just needs to make sure the vote gets out. In 2016, 4.4 million 2012 Obama voters stayed home.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Because there is actually a Democrat or 2/3 that I won’t vote for I’m:
1) Horseshoed...what a stupid label but I’m not surprised people around here like to pretend they hate labels and then that’s all they fucking do. 2) I do not understand the election system 3) naive - no wait that is too kind... what word would you use then tough guy? Say it and don’t be a pansy.
How about this, nominate an electable democrat. I’ll be voting in the dem primary...hoping for a candidate to come out that I can vote for. I can probably vote for 90% of them. But if they want to take the party to the crazy left I can’t vote it. And I won’t. And I can’t nor will I vote for trump.
The crazy left?
Like providing education, healthcare and not putting kids in cages?
You have a strange definition of crazy....
Yeah cause that’s what I said. You have a strange definition of reading comprehension.
Nd if this is your tactic to change people’s minds, it isn’t working.
Naive is too kind a word to describe someone who would vote third party when Trump is on the ballot.
I had no problem voting for Stein in 2016. Hillary was a shoe in for the electoral college votes in California and although I obviously thought she was better than Trump, I didn't like either. I was very fortunate to be able to vote 3rd party with a clear conscience.
I wish enough others had done the same so as to start a trend toward the acceptance of third (or more) parties. Why are we so locked into a two party system,? Why are we so afraid of change? Even if this is seen as "dreaming", when did people stop having dreams for a better world? Do we really want to keep going down the same road that we know damn well is leading us further and further into a place that is bad for us (not to mention, bad for the planet)? Do we really want to be cattle moseying along in a stupor headed for our own self-imposed slaughter? Not me.
Well there's the real irony right? You could vote Stein knowing it didn't matter. Ergo you could have stayed home too.
The question is, what would you have done if you lived in Pennsylvania?
Voted for whatever candidate he felt best lined up with his political beliefs and values?
So Hillary, as he stated. Because he clearly understood the ramifications and political reality of our system.
Have no problem with that, at all, whichis my point... just like i would have no problem if he voted Stein, Gary, Trump, or Mickey Mouse. I might disagree with someones choice, but don't have a problem with it, it's their vote
The doomsday "you must vote Democrat, or die" routine is silly and shortsighted to me, that's all.
Stop applying stronger adjectives than were stated. No one said doomsday.. no one said vote this way or die. You exaggerate the words of others to make your point. Often Reading said (I believe it was that poster), that a vote for a liberal third candidate, particularly on a swing state, is a vote for Trump. In 2020, that's 100% true. Nothing more, nothing less. Do you think that's not the case? If so, defend that reasoning, how a liberal 3rd party candidate would not enhance Trump's chance for victory in that state.
You know what, I’m allowed to have my opinion. I need not just bow down to whoever the Dems nominate. And yet people here continuing call names and gang up. Admin continues to ignore it. A lot of you try to be funny and call out My2hands for @ the admin. I wouldn’t do it, but I understand why he did. So go ahead, call me names, gang up on me, I really don’t give a fuck about you and I’m certainly not going to let that bullshit tell me who to vote for.
Bernie Sanders is part of the problem. He and trump were running the same kind of campaigns. Finding a group to blame, rallying the populists behind them, creating supporters that would not compromise...wouldn’t even vote for their parties nominee. Not only do I disagree with many of his policies (that’s not unique to him and the dem party), but I disagree with him as a person and a leader. So I won’t be voting for him. It’s not a vote for trump, it’ll be a vote for whomever I like best on the ballot and unless there is no 3rd party, it won’t be trump or Bernie Sanders. He’s a no go for me.
You know what, I’m allowed to have my opinion. I need not just bow down to whoever the Dems nominate. And yet people here continuing call names and gang up. Admin continues to ignore it. A lot of you try to be funny and call out My2hands for @ the admin. I wouldn’t do it, but I understand why he did. So go ahead, call me names, gang up on me, I really don’t give a fuck about you and I’m certainly not going to let that bullshit tell me who to vote for.
Bernie Sanders is part of the problem. He and trump were running the same kind of campaigns. Finding a group to blame, rallying the populists behind them, creating supporters that would not compromise...wouldn’t even vote for their parties nominee. Not only do I disagree with many of his policies (that’s not unique to him and the dem party), but I disagree with him as a person and a leader. So I won’t be voting for him. It’s not a vote for trump, it’ll be a vote for whomever I like best on the ballot and unless there is no 3rd party, it won’t be trump or Bernie Sanders. He’s a no go for me.
But he could help change your country's mindset a bit and nudging the US towards "The European way" and a more humane base to stand on. Couldn't that be swell? Be more like the nordic countries?
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
Three parties can be corrupt as two. Liberal parties can be as corrupt as conservative. Socialist and communist governments are certainly as corrupt as any capitalistic one, historically. The common denominator is people. The solution, as an easy and material start, is McCain-Feingold. I don't see how the number of parties is relevant at all.
Also, what generation am I product of?
mrussel1 , all power is prone to corruption, yes. My point about third party is that I believe it should be a viable option and that when people who vote third party are ostracized and criticized, that kind of thinking might actually be counterproductive. And here's why I say that:
In the US, we are at a place in time where the extreme right is having its day in the sun. At this point, a movement toward moderation would be a step in the right direction. But it's important to understand that you need a strong progressive left to help balance the equation. To flat out dismiss radical left thinking might not be in a moderates best interest. I
For example, in his book Confessions of an Eco-Warrior, Dave Foreman talks about how monkeywrenching is useful to the environmental movement:
"Monkeywrenching can also be seen as a sophisticated political tactic that dramatizes ecological issues and places them before the public when they otherwise would be ignored in the media... and broadens the spectrum of environmental activism so that lobbying y mainstream groups is not considered "extremest". " (page 144)
Before dismissing the idea of voting outside the confines of the limited two-party system, perhaps consider that those who work outside the parameters and think outside the box may actually be useful to your moderate viewpoint.
I would say the same for those who show concern or even disdain for "outrage culture". Yes, some of that is over the top. But it can also serve create a greater balance.
Isn't that liberal or progressive coalition in the party today? Why does it have to be outside the party as a third party? Under the constitution and the current amendments, I just don't see how it does anything but split the party. We saw it 2000, 92, 64, 1912, 1824, and more. Those are the ones off the top of my head and in every instance, the third party cost the party from where it split.
I understand your point and agree how the progressive wing is a positive force, and I believe it is, but not to the point of splitting.
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brianlux
Moving through All Kinds of Terrain. Posts: 40,759
You know what, I’m allowed to have my opinion. I need not just bow down to whoever the Dems nominate. And yet people here continuing call names and gang up. Admin continues to ignore it. A lot of you try to be funny and call out My2hands for @ the admin. I wouldn’t do it, but I understand why he did. So go ahead, call me names, gang up on me, I really don’t give a fuck about you and I’m certainly not going to let that bullshit tell me who to vote for.
Bernie Sanders is part of the problem. He and trump were running the same kind of campaigns. Finding a group to blame, rallying the populists behind them, creating supporters that would not compromise...wouldn’t even vote for their parties nominee. Not only do I disagree with many of his policies (that’s not unique to him and the dem party), but I disagree with him as a person and a leader. So I won’t be voting for him. It’s not a vote for trump, it’ll be a vote for whomever I like best on the ballot and unless there is no 3rd party, it won’t be trump or Bernie Sanders. He’s a no go for me.
Good for you for standing your ground, Cincy.
If we could figure out how to have civil discourse around this place we could turn the world on it's head and make it a better place. And I don't mean we have to tippy toe around each other or being overly polite. Just civil. No ganging up, speak our minds, be forthright, take a stance, and yet be open minded enough to listen to others.
Why don't we all try that? Let's start our own revolution of sorts!
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Pete announced he's running today, and you put all your energy into behaving like small children.
Come on now people.
This is one of the guys the Dems should get behind. Dude is a potential rockstar and would bring back an amazing amount of civility to politics. The republicans would likely be hateful towards him regarding his sexual identity....but he is the guy that seems to know how to change minds. I don’t agree with all of his politics...disagree in fact with a bunch likely. But he is a leader, and does it the right way. He is what we need.
Pete announced he's running today, and you put all your energy into behaving like small children.
Come on now people.
This is one of the guys the Dems should get behind. Dude is a potential rockstar and would bring back an amazing amount of civility to politics. The republicans would likely be hateful towards him regarding his sexual identity....but he is the guy that seems to know how to change minds. I don’t agree with all of his politics...disagree in fact with a bunch likely. But he is a leader, and does it the right way. He is what we need.
The thing is, I think Trump (and other republicans) really want to throw some "damn dirty GAY" at him in a tweet -- but would that really fly for the masses in 2019? Or would that be a bridge to far? Even though bigotry etc exists ofc and US in parts is religious backwards - could one really mock homosexuality in 2019 in politics?
I wonder what Trumps nickname for him will be, haven't seen one yet(?) - I hope it's Alfred E. Neuman but I guess Trump never read MAD.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
You know what, I’m allowed to have my opinion. I need not just bow down to whoever the Dems nominate. And yet people here continuing call names and gang up. Admin continues to ignore it. A lot of you try to be funny and call out My2hands for @ the admin. I wouldn’t do it, but I understand why he did. So go ahead, call me names, gang up on me, I really don’t give a fuck about you and I’m certainly not going to let that bullshit tell me who to vote for.
Bernie Sanders is part of the problem. He and trump were running the same kind of campaigns. Finding a group to blame, rallying the populists behind them, creating supporters that would not compromise...wouldn’t even vote for their parties nominee. Not only do I disagree with many of his policies (that’s not unique to him and the dem party), but I disagree with him as a person and a leader. So I won’t be voting for him. It’s not a vote for trump, it’ll be a vote for whomever I like best on the ballot and unless there is no 3rd party, it won’t be trump or Bernie Sanders. He’s a no go for me.
Good for you for standing your ground, Cincy.
If we could figure out how to have civil discourse around this place we could turn the world on it's head and make it a better place. And I don't mean we have to tippy toe around each other or being overly polite. Just civil. No ganging up, speak our minds, be forthright, take a stance, and yet be open minded enough to listen to others.
Why don't we all try that? Let's start our own revolution of sorts!
So far he's told someone to fuck off and been implicitly threatening a person. Sorry, I can't agree that this is getting us closer to civility. The worst said, I believe, was "go back to civics class." I'm not seeing the martyrdom.
Pete announced he's running today, and you put all your energy into behaving like small children.
Come on now people.
This is one of the guys the Dems should get behind. Dude is a potential rockstar and would bring back an amazing amount of civility to politics. The republicans would likely be hateful towards him regarding his sexual identity....but he is the guy that seems to know how to change minds. I don’t agree with all of his politics...disagree in fact with a bunch likely. But he is a leader, and does it the right way. He is what we need.
The thing is, I think Trump (and other republicans) really want to throw some "damn dirty GAY" at him in a tweet -- but would that really fly for the masses in 2019? Or would that be a bridge to far? Even though bigotry etc exists ofc and US in parts is religious backwards - could one really mock homosexuality in 2019 in politics?
I wonder what Trumps nickname for him will be, haven't seen one yet(?) - I hope it's Alfred E. Neuman but I guess Trump never read MAD.
Pete announced he's running today, and you put all your energy into behaving like small children.
Come on now people.
This is one of the guys the Dems should get behind. Dude is a potential rockstar and would bring back an amazing amount of civility to politics. The republicans would likely be hateful towards him regarding his sexual identity....but he is the guy that seems to know how to change minds. I don’t agree with all of his politics...disagree in fact with a bunch likely. But he is a leader, and does it the right way. He is what we need.
The thing is, I think Trump (and other republicans) really want to throw some "damn dirty GAY" at him in a tweet -- but would that really fly for the masses in 2019? Or would that be a bridge to far? Even though bigotry etc exists ofc and US in parts is religious backwards - could one really mock homosexuality in 2019 in politics?
I wonder what Trumps nickname for him will be, haven't seen one yet(?) - I hope it's Alfred E. Neuman but I guess Trump never read MAD.
He's definitely a Cracked reader. Mad was pretty sophisticated.
Pete announced he's running today, and you put all your energy into behaving like small children.
Come on now people.
I love your passion for Pete. I dig the guy too. We'll see what happens. He needs to get on the stage to start.
I think he will keep on being a media darling. Weird that I haven't seen Beto pop up in MSNBC/CNN shows at all pretty much...
Pete stole his spot cause he is smarter, more polished and most importantly more sincere.
And doesn't come off as "power hungry" I guess. Beto going from losing the Texas election but not wanting to lose the Beto-zeitgeist he had going running straight into wanting to become President gave him some antagonist qualities for some reason.
"Mostly I think that people react sensitively because they know you’ve got a point"
You know what, I’m allowed to have my opinion. I need not just bow down to whoever the Dems nominate. And yet people here continuing call names and gang up. Admin continues to ignore it. A lot of you try to be funny and call out My2hands for @ the admin. I wouldn’t do it, but I understand why he did. So go ahead, call me names, gang up on me, I really don’t give a fuck about you and I’m certainly not going to let that bullshit tell me who to vote for.
Bernie Sanders is part of the problem. He and trump were running the same kind of campaigns. Finding a group to blame, rallying the populists behind them, creating supporters that would not compromise...wouldn’t even vote for their parties nominee. Not only do I disagree with many of his policies (that’s not unique to him and the dem party), but I disagree with him as a person and a leader. So I won’t be voting for him. It’s not a vote for trump, it’ll be a vote for whomever I like best on the ballot and unless there is no 3rd party, it won’t be trump or Bernie Sanders. He’s a no go for me.
Good for you for standing your ground, Cincy.
If we could figure out how to have civil discourse around this place we could turn the world on it's head and make it a better place. And I don't mean we have to tippy toe around each other or being overly polite. Just civil. No ganging up, speak our minds, be forthright, take a stance, and yet be open minded enough to listen to others.
Why don't we all try that? Let's start our own revolution of sorts!
So far he's told someone to fuck off and been implicitly threatening a person. Sorry, I can't agree that this is getting us closer to civility. The worst said, I believe, was "go back to civics class." I'm not seeing the martyrdom.
I'm as guilty as the next guy as far as having been uncivil at times. I'm trying to do better.
“The fear of death follows from the fear of life. A man [or woman] who lives fully is prepared to die at any time.”
Naive is too kind a word to describe someone who would vote third party when Trump is on the ballot.
I had no problem voting for Stein in 2016. Hillary was a shoe in for the electoral college votes in California and although I obviously thought she was better than Trump, I didn't like either. I was very fortunate to be able to vote 3rd party with a clear conscience.
I wish enough others had done the same so as to start a trend toward the acceptance of third (or more) parties. Why are we so locked into a two party system,? Why are we so afraid of change? Even if this is seen as "dreaming", when did people stop having dreams for a better world? Do we really want to keep going down the same road that we know damn well is leading us further and further into a place that is bad for us (not to mention, bad for the planet)? Do we really want to be cattle moseying along in a stupor headed for our own self-imposed slaughter? Not me.
Well there's the real irony right? You could vote Stein knowing it didn't matter. Ergo you could have stayed home too.
The question is, what would you have done if you lived in Pennsylvania?
Voted for whatever candidate he felt best lined up with his political beliefs and values?
So Hillary, as he stated. Because he clearly understood the ramifications and political reality of our system.
Have no problem with that, at all, whichis my point... just like i would have no problem if he voted Stein, Gary, Trump, or Mickey Mouse. I might disagree with someones choice, but don't have a problem with it, it's their vote
The doomsday "you must vote Democrat, or die" routine is silly and shortsighted to me, that's all.
Stop applying stronger adjectives than were stated. No one said doomsday.. no one said vote this way or die. You exaggerate the words of others to make your point. Often Reading said (I believe it was that poster), that a vote for a liberal third candidate, particularly on a swing state, is a vote for Trump. In 2020, that's 100% true. Nothing more, nothing less. Do you think that's not the case? If so, defend that reasoning, how a liberal 3rd party candidate would not enhance Trump's chance for victory in that state.
I don't disagree at all, but that's not the debate. And frankly, isn't Cincys problem. Like he said, he doesn't have to bow down to the DNC candidate. If he is completely opposed to the candidates ideas and platform, you want him to sell out his core beliefs just so the Trump doesnt win. Well, where does that end? What if the next R candidare is horrible? And after that? He should just vote against the boogeyman and surrender his beliefs?
Nah, fuck that. Vote for your candidate and don't apologize for it.
If a few third party votes means the dem candidate cant beat this clown, then they don't deserve it any damn way lol
The Marianne Williamson townhall on cnn is fucking great. Yang up next. Busy day for the dem candidates.
Detroit 2000, Detroit 2003 1-2, Grand Rapids VFC 2004, Philly 2005, Grand Rapids 2006, Detroit 2006, Cleveland 2006, Lollapalooza 2007, Detroit Eddie Solo 2011, Detroit 2014, Chicago 2016 1-2, Chicago 2018 1-2, Ohana Encore 2021 1-2, Chicago Eddie/Earthlings 2022 1-2, Nashville 2022, St. Louis 2022
You know what, I’m allowed to have my opinion. I need not just bow down to whoever the Dems nominate. And yet people here continuing call names and gang up. Admin continues to ignore it. A lot of you try to be funny and call out My2hands for @ the admin. I wouldn’t do it, but I understand why he did. So go ahead, call me names, gang up on me, I really don’t give a fuck about you and I’m certainly not going to let that bullshit tell me who to vote for.
Bernie Sanders is part of the problem. He and trump were running the same kind of campaigns. Finding a group to blame, rallying the populists behind them, creating supporters that would not compromise...wouldn’t even vote for their parties nominee. Not only do I disagree with many of his policies (that’s not unique to him and the dem party), but I disagree with him as a person and a leader. So I won’t be voting for him. It’s not a vote for trump, it’ll be a vote for whomever I like best on the ballot and unless there is no 3rd party, it won’t be trump or Bernie Sanders. He’s a no go for me.
Good for you for standing your ground, Cincy.
If we could figure out how to have civil discourse around this place we could turn the world on it's head and make it a better place. And I don't mean we have to tippy toe around each other or being overly polite. Just civil. No ganging up, speak our minds, be forthright, take a stance, and yet be open minded enough to listen to others.
Why don't we all try that? Let's start our own revolution of sorts!
So far he's told someone to fuck off and been implicitly threatening a person. Sorry, I can't agree that this is getting us closer to civility. The worst said, I believe, was "go back to civics class." I'm not seeing the martyrdom.
Then you can’t read. It’s a common theme here. Disagree with the group think, get called names and attacked by the group. Then do what you are doing, pretending it didn’t happen at all and play all coy and innocent. I just want people to own up to their shit.
Comments
Nd if this is your tactic to change people’s minds, it isn’t working.
Bernie Sanders is part of the problem. He and trump were running the same kind of campaigns. Finding a group to blame, rallying the populists behind them, creating supporters that would not compromise...wouldn’t even vote for their parties nominee. Not only do I disagree with many of his policies (that’s not unique to him and the dem party), but I disagree with him as a person and a leader. So I won’t be voting for him. It’s not a vote for trump, it’ll be a vote for whomever I like best on the ballot and unless there is no 3rd party, it won’t be trump or Bernie Sanders. He’s a no go for me.
Come on now people.
I understand your point and agree how the progressive wing is a positive force, and I believe it is, but not to the point of splitting.
I wonder what Trumps nickname for him will be, haven't seen one yet(?) - I hope it's Alfred E. Neuman but I guess Trump never read MAD.
Nah, fuck that. Vote for your candidate and don't apologize for it.
If a few third party votes means the dem candidate cant beat this clown, then they don't deserve it any damn way lol
Detroit 2000, Detroit 2003 1-2, Grand Rapids VFC 2004, Philly 2005, Grand Rapids 2006, Detroit 2006, Cleveland 2006, Lollapalooza 2007, Detroit Eddie Solo 2011, Detroit 2014, Chicago 2016 1-2, Chicago 2018 1-2, Ohana Encore 2021 1-2, Chicago Eddie/Earthlings 2022 1-2, Nashville 2022, St. Louis 2022