The Democratic Candidates

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  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,910
    The Media Gaslighting of 2020’s Most Likable Candidate






    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Halifax2TheMax
    Halifax2TheMax Posts: 43,130
    mrussel1 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    OnWis97 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    it would be mind numblingly stupid to get the "fix" in for any nominee, unless you want to destroy your own party's chances. you let the people decide so you know who has the best chance of winning. 
    Agreed.

    Doesn't mean they won't do it.
    Explain 'fixing' please. 
    By the strictest of definitions, I suppose "fixed" isn't the word.  But the Brazille story points to the party hedging its bets toward Hillary.  It's kinda like the NBA.  No, they don't script a win for the higher-profile teams and players, but they give them the benefit of the doubt on the calls.  The lesser team has to do better than play even with the more important team. Similarly, I don't think you have to be outrageously cynical to think Bernie needed a better-than-50% +1 performance to beat Hillary and that it's because the party was favoring her from day 1.

    I share some of the criticism that Bernie is only a Democrat when it's convenient.  And I understand that the party can run itself how it wants to. But the superdelegates are able water down the vote.

    If the party leaders want Biden and the voters come out overwhelmingly for, say, Harris, then Harris will win the nomination.  But if it's close, the party leaders should prevail. Fix?  No. Hedge?  I'd say so.
    Hedging “bets” is a fact of life and individuals and organizations do it all the time. And party leaders want the “win.”
    The fundraising deal was made in 2015, before Bernie was even a Democrat.  I never saw how this was some indication of fixing, although I appreciate OnWis's softening of the word.  But it's annoying that this talking point persists, while materially untrue.  
    And this talking point is likely one of the reason so many Sanders voters defected to Trump (enough to tip the three key states), let alone those that stayed home.  
    This talking point is starting again.  
    I totally get it. Biden opening a huge lead early as an old stodgy white guy must be because of a fix or hedge and for no other possible reason(s). Some people can’t accept that Bernie and his policies are too radical. Has anyone ever asked Bernie how he’d get congress to go along to implement his policies or does that not matter, being pure and all?
    09/15/1998 & 09/16/1998, Mansfield, MA; 08/29/00 08/30/00, Mansfield, MA; 07/02/03, 07/03/03, Mansfield, MA; 09/28/04, 09/29/04, Boston, MA; 09/22/05, Halifax, NS; 05/24/06, 05/25/06, Boston, MA; 07/22/06, 07/23/06, Gorge, WA; 06/27/2008, Hartford; 06/28/08, 06/30/08, Mansfield; 08/18/2009, O2, London, UK; 10/30/09, 10/31/09, Philadelphia, PA; 05/15/10, Hartford, CT; 05/17/10, Boston, MA; 05/20/10, 05/21/10, NY, NY; 06/22/10, Dublin, IRE; 06/23/10, Northern Ireland; 09/03/11, 09/04/11, Alpine Valley, WI; 09/11/11, 09/12/11, Toronto, Ont; 09/14/11, Ottawa, Ont; 09/15/11, Hamilton, Ont; 07/02/2012, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/04/2012 & 07/05/2012, Berlin, Germany; 07/07/2012, Stockholm, Sweden; 09/30/2012, Missoula, MT; 07/16/2013, London, Ont; 07/19/2013, Chicago, IL; 10/15/2013 & 10/16/2013, Worcester, MA; 10/21/2013 & 10/22/2013, Philadelphia, PA; 10/25/2013, Hartford, CT; 11/29/2013, Portland, OR; 11/30/2013, Spokane, WA; 12/04/2013, Vancouver, BC; 12/06/2013, Seattle, WA; 10/03/2014, St. Louis. MO; 10/22/2014, Denver, CO; 10/26/2015, New York, NY; 04/23/2016, New Orleans, LA; 04/28/2016 & 04/29/2016, Philadelphia, PA; 05/01/2016 & 05/02/2016, New York, NY; 05/08/2016, Ottawa, Ont.; 05/10/2016 & 05/12/2016, Toronto, Ont.; 08/05/2016 & 08/07/2016, Boston, MA; 08/20/2016 & 08/22/2016, Chicago, IL; 07/01/2018, Prague, Czech Republic; 07/03/2018, Krakow, Poland; 07/05/2018, Berlin, Germany; 09/02/2018 & 09/04/2018, Boston, MA; 09/08/2022, Toronto, Ont; 09/11/2022, New York, NY; 09/14/2022, Camden, NJ; 09/02/2023, St. Paul, MN; 05/04/2024 & 05/06/2024, Vancouver, BC; 05/10/2024, Portland, OR; 05/03/2025, New Orleans, LA;

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  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Halifax2TheMax said:
    OnWis97 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    HughFreakingDillon said:
    it would be mind numblingly stupid to get the "fix" in for any nominee, unless you want to destroy your own party's chances. you let the people decide so you know who has the best chance of winning. 
    Agreed.

    Doesn't mean they won't do it.
    Explain 'fixing' please. 
    By the strictest of definitions, I suppose "fixed" isn't the word.  But the Brazille story points to the party hedging its bets toward Hillary.  It's kinda like the NBA.  No, they don't script a win for the higher-profile teams and players, but they give them the benefit of the doubt on the calls.  The lesser team has to do better than play even with the more important team. Similarly, I don't think you have to be outrageously cynical to think Bernie needed a better-than-50% +1 performance to beat Hillary and that it's because the party was favoring her from day 1.

    I share some of the criticism that Bernie is only a Democrat when it's convenient.  And I understand that the party can run itself how it wants to. But the superdelegates are able water down the vote.

    If the party leaders want Biden and the voters come out overwhelmingly for, say, Harris, then Harris will win the nomination.  But if it's close, the party leaders should prevail. Fix?  No. Hedge?  I'd say so.
    Hedging “bets” is a fact of life and individuals and organizations do it all the time. And party leaders want the “win.”
    The fundraising deal was made in 2015, before Bernie was even a Democrat.  I never saw how this was some indication of fixing, although I appreciate OnWis's softening of the word.  But it's annoying that this talking point persists, while materially untrue.  
    And this talking point is likely one of the reason so many Sanders voters defected to Trump (enough to tip the three key states), let alone those that stayed home.  
    This talking point is starting again.  
    I totally get it. Biden opening a huge lead early as an old stodgy white guy must be because of a fix or hedge and for no other possible reason(s). Some people can’t accept that Bernie and his policies are too radical. Has anyone ever asked Bernie how he’d get congress to go along to implement his policies or does that not matter, being pure and all?
    And others forget that 1. The party is minority heavy (not Sanders's demographic), the party is generally older, and the party is generally more moderate.  Last, polls are adjusted for expected turnout.  Who turns out?  Older people, not young people.  
    Too many people talk about the "energy" of the party, and where that's located.  It doesn't matter how many tweets I unload, I only get one vote.  The majority of the party, the ones that have been there through it all, are not on twitter.  They are at work.  
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    Kat's judgment cometh, and that right soon.  
  • Ledbetterman10
    Ledbetterman10 Posts: 17,014
    mrussel1 said:
    Kat's judgment cometh, and that right soon.  
    Seems like it already came. my2hands is banned. Another conservative voice silenced by left-wing social media police! If message boards count as social media lol
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,910
    edited May 2019
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Kat's judgment cometh, and that right soon.  
    Seems like it already came. my2hands is banned. Another conservative voice silenced by left-wing social media police! If message boards count as social media lol
    He made personal attacks - it had literally NOTHING to do with his politics or anyone else's. Also, my2hands isn't a conservative.
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • Ledbetterman10
    Ledbetterman10 Posts: 17,014
    PJ_Soul said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Kat's judgment cometh, and that right soon.  
    Seems like it already came. my2hands is banned. Another conservative voice silenced by left-wing social media police! If message boards count as social media lol
    He made personal attacks - it had literally NOTHING to do with his politics or anyone else's. Also, my2hands isn't a conservative.
    Let me repost that comment with instructions, as it's sometimes hard for tone to come across in writing.....

    Seems like it already came. my2hands is banned. [BEGIN SARCASM] Another conservative voice silenced by left-wing social media police! [END SARCASM] If message boards count as social media lol 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 40,014
    edited May 2019
    PJ_Soul said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Kat's judgment cometh, and that right soon.  
    Seems like it already came. my2hands is banned. Another conservative voice silenced by left-wing social media police! If message boards count as social media lol
    He made personal attacks - it had literally NOTHING to do with his politics or anyone else's. Also, my2hands isn't a conservative.
    he was kidding

    edit: i see he already clarified
    Your boos mean nothing to me, for I have seen what makes you cheer



  • PJ_Soul
    PJ_Soul Vancouver, BC Posts: 50,910
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Kat's judgment cometh, and that right soon.  
    Seems like it already came. my2hands is banned. Another conservative voice silenced by left-wing social media police! If message boards count as social media lol
    He made personal attacks - it had literally NOTHING to do with his politics or anyone else's. Also, my2hands isn't a conservative.
    Let me repost that comment with instructions, as it's sometimes hard for tone to come across in writing.....

    Seems like it already came. my2hands is banned. [BEGIN SARCASM] Another conservative voice silenced by left-wing social media police! [END SARCASM] If message boards count as social media lol 
    Ahhh, lol. Don't forget about emojis, they can be so helpful. :lol:;)
    With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy. ~ Desiderata
  • benjs
    benjs Toronto, ON Posts: 9,446
    Well-earned.
    '05 - TO, '06 - TO 1, '08 - NYC 1 & 2, '09 - TO, Chi 1 & 2, '10 - Buffalo, NYC 1 & 2, '11 - TO 1 & 2, Hamilton, '13 - Buffalo, Brooklyn 1 & 2, '15 - Global Citizen, '16 - TO 1 & 2, Chi 2

    EV
    Toronto Film Festival 9/11/2007, '08 - Toronto 1 & 2, '09 - Albany 1, '11 - Chicago 1
  • Ledbetterman10
    Ledbetterman10 Posts: 17,014
    PJ_Soul said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Kat's judgment cometh, and that right soon.  
    Seems like it already came. my2hands is banned. Another conservative voice silenced by left-wing social media police! If message boards count as social media lol
    He made personal attacks - it had literally NOTHING to do with his politics or anyone else's. Also, my2hands isn't a conservative.
    Let me repost that comment with instructions, as it's sometimes hard for tone to come across in writing.....

    Seems like it already came. my2hands is banned. [BEGIN SARCASM] Another conservative voice silenced by left-wing social media police! [END SARCASM] If message boards count as social media lol 
    Ahhh, lol. Don't forget about emojis, they can be so helpful. :lol:;)
    I figured the exclamation point would suggest I was doing a Hannity-type character. 

    Didn't really see his personal attack other than calling someone an asshole, so I don't really know what the situation was. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • OnWis97
    OnWis97 St. Paul, MN Posts: 5,696
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Kat's judgment cometh, and that right soon.  
    Seems like it already came. my2hands is banned. Another conservative voice silenced by left-wing social media police! If message boards count as social media lol
    How can you tell?
    1995 Milwaukee     1998 Alpine, Alpine     2003 Albany, Boston, Boston, Boston     2004 Boston, Boston     2006 Hartford, St. Paul (Petty), St. Paul (Petty)     2011 Alpine, Alpine     
    2013 Wrigley     2014 St. Paul     2016 Fenway, Fenway, Wrigley, Wrigley     2018 Missoula, Wrigley, Wrigley     2021 Asbury Park     2022 St Louis     2023 Austin, Austin
    2024 Napa, Wrigley, Wrigley
  • Ledbetterman10
    Ledbetterman10 Posts: 17,014
    OnWis97 said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Kat's judgment cometh, and that right soon.  
    Seems like it already came. my2hands is banned. Another conservative voice silenced by left-wing social media police! If message boards count as social media lol
    How can you tell?
    Scroll up to a post of his and click on his username. His forum profile says banned. 
    2000: Camden 1, 2003: Philly, State College, Camden 1, MSG 2, Hershey, 2004: Reading, 2005: Philly, 2006: Camden 1, 2, East Rutherford 1, 2007: Lollapalooza, 2008: Camden 1, Washington D.C., MSG 1, 2, 2009: Philly 1, 2, 3, 4, 2010: Bristol, MSG 2, 2011: PJ20 1, 2, 2012: Made In America, 2013: Brooklyn 2, Philly 2, 2014: Denver, 2015: Global Citizen Festival, 2016: Philly 2, Fenway 1, 2018: Fenway 1, 2, 2021: Sea. Hear. Now. 2022: Camden, 2024: Philly 2, 2025: Pittsburgh 1

    Pearl Jam bootlegs:
    http://wegotshit.blogspot.com
  • mcgruff10
    mcgruff10 New Jersey Posts: 29,190
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    OnWis97 said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Kat's judgment cometh, and that right soon.  
    Seems like it already came. my2hands is banned. Another conservative voice silenced by left-wing social media police! If message boards count as social media lol
    How can you tell?
    Scroll up to a post of his and click on his username. His forum profile says banned. 
    Permanently banned or just a time out?
    I'll ride the wave where it takes me......
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    edited May 2019
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Kat's judgment cometh, and that right soon.  
    Seems like it already came. my2hands is banned. Another conservative voice silenced by left-wing social media police! If message boards count as social media lol
    He made personal attacks - it had literally NOTHING to do with his politics or anyone else's. Also, my2hands isn't a conservative.
    Let me repost that comment with instructions, as it's sometimes hard for tone to come across in writing.....

    Seems like it already came. my2hands is banned. [BEGIN SARCASM] Another conservative voice silenced by left-wing social media police! [END SARCASM] If message boards count as social media lol 
    Ahhh, lol. Don't forget about emojis, they can be so helpful. :lol:;)
    I figured the exclamation point would suggest I was doing a Hannity-type character. 

    Didn't really see his personal attack other than calling someone an asshole, so I don't really know what the situation was. 
    I can tell you that it stung when he typed it.  Stung real bad like.  
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    Although I'm well aware that I'm an asshole.  And a dick.  
  • HughFreakingDillon
    HughFreakingDillon Winnipeg Posts: 40,014
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    PJ_Soul said:
    Ledbetterman10 said:
    mrussel1 said:
    Kat's judgment cometh, and that right soon.  
    Seems like it already came. my2hands is banned. Another conservative voice silenced by left-wing social media police! If message boards count as social media lol
    He made personal attacks - it had literally NOTHING to do with his politics or anyone else's. Also, my2hands isn't a conservative.
    Let me repost that comment with instructions, as it's sometimes hard for tone to come across in writing.....

    Seems like it already came. my2hands is banned. [BEGIN SARCASM] Another conservative voice silenced by left-wing social media police! [END SARCASM] If message boards count as social media lol 
    Ahhh, lol. Don't forget about emojis, they can be so helpful. :lol:;)
    I figured the exclamation point would suggest I was doing a Hannity-type character. 

    Didn't really see his personal attack other than calling someone an asshole, so I don't really know what the situation was. 
    it was pretty obvious IMHO
    Your boos mean nothing to me, for I have seen what makes you cheer



  • Meltdown99
    Meltdown99 None Of Your Business... Posts: 10,739
    When discussing politics things can get out of hand quickly.  But then I would assume that goes without saying...
    Give Peas A Chance…
  • Jason P
    Jason P Posts: 19,392
    I would surmise that the DNC had 10,000x more involvement in influencing Hillary’s nomination than the Russians did with Trump. 
    Be Excellent To Each Other
    Party On, Dudes!
  • mrussel1
    mrussel1 Posts: 30,981
    Jason P said:
    I would surmise that the DNC had 10,000x more involvement in influencing Hillary’s nomination than the Russians did with Trump. 
    Did you get a bunch of facebook ads lying about Bernie on your newsfeed?  My conservative friends continue to tag me in FB anti-HIllary memes that are completely untrue 98% of the time.  You're saying that Hillary and the DNC having a joint fundraising agreement in 2015 affected voting 10,000 to 1, compared to lies on social media.  Am I understanding you correctly?
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